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Trump's Lawyers Meet With Justice Department Officials; Mar-A- Lago Pool Flood Raised Suspicions Among Prosecutors In Trump Classified Documents Case; Former Vice President Mike Pence Will Launch His 2024 Presidential Campaign On Wednesday. Aired 9-10p ET

Aired June 05, 2023 - 21:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[21:00:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN HOST, CNN PRIMETIME: Good evening. I'm Kaitlan Collins.

And tonight, we begin with exclusive CNN reporting. We have learned that prosecutors, in the classified documents case, are now zeroing in, on a flood that happened, on the grounds, of Mar-a-Lago.

This was last October, when an employee, there, drained the club's swimming pool. And, as a result, a room that stores computer servers, which contained surveillance video logs, flooded. A big question now, was it an accident? Or was it intentional?

This is reporting that Katelyn Polantz, Jeremy Herb, and I broke, on the Special Counsel's investigation. And here's what else we've learned, about the situation.

Federal prosecutors, who are investigating Trump's handling, of classified documents, are now asking, about this incident that happened at Mar-a-Lago, last October.

The maintenance worker, at the club, drained a pool, which ended up flooding, a nearby room, where computer servers, storing surveillance footage, are kept. That happened about two months, after the FBI executed a search warrant, at the club, and ended up finding hundreds of classified documents.

To be clear, we don't know, if this room was flooded, on purpose, or if this was a genuine mistake that happened. What we do know is that it has caught the eye of federal prosecutors, who found it suspicious. We know that they are looking into whether there were any efforts, to obstruct the Justice Department's investigation.

And we also know that surveillance footage, from Mar-a-Lago shows the same maintenance worker, who drained the pool, moving boxes, around the club, with another Trump aide. That same maintenance worker later had his phone seized, by investigators, and also recently talked to them.

My colleague, Katelyn Polantz, joins us now. Katelyn, obviously, a big question here, is the timeline. Walk us through, as we were reporting this out, how this went down?

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: Well, Kaitlan, this is in October of last year. That's when the pool was drained, by this maintenance worker, and it flooded that IT room, at Mar-a-Lago, not damaging any of the videotape that we know of, but clearly something that was quite suspicious, that has happened.

And at that point in time, last year, Kaitlan, that was when this was the heart of the obstruction investigation. The Justice Department was not trusting at that time, Donald Trump, and his attorneys, that they had turned over all of the classified records, in his possession, at Mar-a-Lago. They were headed toward a contempt fight, in court, in the fall.

We also know this happened, after the FBI search, of Mar-a-Lago. So, a point in time after that FBI search, where the Justice Department, we now know, went back, to the Trump Organization, and either asked for them to preserve surveillance footage, or they demanded, for them, to turn over surveillance footage, a couple different times, to the grand jury, as part of this investigation.

So, this is really a moment in time, where the investigators are bearing down on obstruction. They're asking a lot of questions about what might be, on these surveillance tapes, about the surveillance tapes, themselves, about people, who are moving boxes. And, of course, that maintenance worker that is central to this story, about this flood, that is a person, who was captured, on some of those tapes, moving boxes, at least at one crucial moment.

Kaitlan?

COLLINS: Yes. And so, we see how crucial the surveillance footage could potentially be here.

But this is also comes as Jack Smith, the Special Counsel, who's heading this investigation actually was in the room, with Trump attorneys, today, at the Justice Department. What do we know about what happened for those 90 minutes or so that they were in the same room?

POLANTZ: Right. Well, as far as we know, Jack Smith was there. We don't have a full understanding of what exactly happened in that meeting.

We also know that Donald Trump's lawyers were meeting with a top career official, in the Justice Department, so, not the Deputy Attorney General or the Attorney General himself, but a Deputy below those political appointees.

But Kaitlan, this is quite a significant meeting, at a really significant time, where Donald Trump, and his defense team, clearly are gaining the understanding that we are in a final stage of this probe. There's been a lot of grand jury activity. They have scoured Mar-a-Lago, and the people working around Donald Trump, and there's been a bit of a lull.

Now, it might not be the very last act, in this investigation, because we do believe there is a witness, coming into a grand jury, in South Florida, this week. But this is the sort of meeting that doesn't happen unless you're at the end, and you are a defense team that wants to either get a sense of the investigation, or make a case, or make a complaint, about how the investigation in its full arc has gone.

[21:05:00]

COLLINS: Yes, absolutely. And the Trump team seems to think there could be movement, soon.

Katelyn Polantz, thank you.

And joining me here, in studio, is New York Times' Maggie Haberman; and former federal prosecutor, Elie Honig.

Thank you both for being here.

Maggie, you've done extensive reporting, on the employees, at Mar-a- Lago, who have gone before the grand jury, who have been at the center of this investigation. What do you make of this other saga that Jack Smith is asking about?

MAGGIE HABERMAN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: The pool saga?

COLLINS: Yes.

HABERMAN: I mean, I think it's all of a piece, which is that there is Walt Nauta, who is this aide to Trump. And then, there is this maintenance worker/odd jobs handler, who was involved in a couple of episodes that relate to putting a lock on a door, or asking about footage.

And I think it is all related to episodes that the DOJ finds somewhat suspicious, and they're looking for more information about. What they end up doing with that or concluding with that? I think it's unclear. But they don't believe they are getting a full picture, clearly, from these guys.

COLLINS: And Elie, you're a former federal prosecutor. When you look at something like this, and you hear that they've seized the phone, of a maintenance worker, here, and they're looking all this footage, what questions would you have?

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Yes. So, the big question here is, was this on purpose? Or was this an accident?

Now, I completely understand why prosecutors were drawn to this, right, especially when you consider the timing. There's already been a subpoena, at this point. We've already had the search warrant. And DOJ is trying to collect the surveillance. And now, the room, where the surveillance is stored, is flooded. Of course, apparently the surveillance was not damaged. But still, I'd have questions. And so, if you get the phones, you're looking for a communication, you're looking for a text, you're looking for an email, somebody gives an order, why.

And here's the thing. Sometimes people think they've deleted their phones, they've deleted their texts, if you just sort of swipe and hit delete. That doesn't delete them. You can still raise those up back in the FBI lab. So, I guarantee you they're doing forensics on those phones, and looking for that kind of communication.

COLLINS: And while we're learning about all this, this meeting happened. Pretty extraordinary to see Trump's attorneys, going into the Justice Department, sitting down with Jack Smith.

What is your sense, on how Trump is responding to this? Because he tweeted after, or he posted on Truth Social, I should say, asking why he would be charged, when other presidents have not been charged.

HABERMAN: Right. Well remember this is --

COLLINS: We don't know that he's going to be charged.

HABERMAN: We don't, although the indications seem that it's likelier than not. We know that the DOJ just said that they're not charging anyone, in connection with Mike Pence, for instance, for documents that he had. And I think that's a comparison point.

I had been hearing before this meeting took place that Trump expected he is going to be charged. That's not because they have said this to him. It's just that he believes it. And I don't think anything took place in this meeting that dispelled that.

Now, these meetings, and you would know this better than me, DOJ officials, typically prosecutors actually, at any level, keep their cards close to the vest. I don't think this was different, in this meeting. But I also don't think they came away thinking "Oh, you know, we've solved this."

And for somebody, like Donald Trump, who treats everything like it's a deal, and an exchange, and a transaction, I don't think this is the meeting he wanted.

COLLINS: So, what is the thinking behind why he thinks he's going to be charged? Just because of how he's seen this investigation progress?

HABERMAN: Yes, because they keep coming, and coming, and coming, and because they have subpoenaed almost everybody around him, because they have pierced attorney-client privilege, in the case of one of his lawyers. And because all indications are that they don't believe what they're being told.

HONIG: So, Maggie's right, that in these meetings, prosecutors do and say as little as humanly possible. When I would have these meetings, I would say, "Thanks for coming. Floor is yours." And then at the end, I'd say "Thank you very much."

COLLINS: That's it?

HONIG: "We'll take it under advisement."

Absolutely. It's great for prosecutors, because you do get a little bit of a preview of what the defense is likely to be.

Now, if as I think you're reporting, Kaitlan, is the Trump team went in there, and just aired grievances. "This is unfair. How about Biden?" That kind of thing? Then it's a complete waste of an opportunity by the Trump team. It's a tactical mistake.

Because what good defense lawyers do is go in and tell prosecutors, "Here's some holes in your case. You may have a problem with intent. You may not be able to prove some other element." And that can actually make a difference. I take that into account, in these types of scenarios.

HABERMAN: I will say, Jim Trusty, who is one of the lawyers, who was there --

COLLINS: Yes.

HABERMAN: -- was actually pretty well-regarded at the DOJ.

HONIG: Yes.

HABERMAN: I'd be surprised -- when he worked there. I'd be surprised --

COLLINS: He knows Jack Smith.

HABERMAN: Yes. He knows Jack Smith.

I would be surprised if he walked in and didn't handle that professionally. We just don't know --

HONIG: Yes.

HABERMAN: -- how this interaction was handled. But again, I just don't know that it matters, at this point.

COLLINS: The one attorney, who wasn't there today that is on the Trump team, but not on this case, anymore, is Evan Corcoran. And you had a really fascinating story, over the weekend, about his detailed notes, about his interactions, with Trump, talking about this very case.

HABERMAN: Right. Well, so he recorded them, into a voice app, on his phone, the morning after that he met with Trump, about the main subpoena. And they were very detailed, almost narrative in form, as if he was a character, in this. And those notes are now something that the DOJ has access to.

It goes, again, to mindset, to questions Trump was asking. He was asking questions about, "Do we have to comply with a subpoena?" I think Trump's team would say, "That's just a guy talking to his lawyer." That's not saying that he's not going to. We'll see how the DOJ views it.

COLLINS: How would the DOJ view something like that, especially, and how much could that potentially help them that there are such detailed notes?

HONIG: So, it is virtually unheard of, to get a copy of, or a voice recording of notes, between a defense lawyer and a client. I never did that. I never even thought about doing that.

[21:10:00]

But it's important to note. There's got to be some -- Maggie's right. It is not a crime, for a client to say to a lawyer, "Can we fight this? Do we have to comply?"

But remember, DOJ went to a court, and won a ruling, where a judge said this is what we call the crime-fraud exception.

HABERMAN: That's right.

HONIG: Meaning, the communications here had something to do with some ongoing crime. So, that's an indicator, to me, that something more than just the normal --

HABERMAN: Right.

HONIG: -- attorney-client interaction was happening.

HABERMAN: And it goes -- you just raised an important point here, too. There's so much we can't see, right?

COLLINS: Yes.

HABERMAN: We are getting basically a keyhole view of so much of this. I have had many, many people, connected to this case say to me, "There's a lot you guys don't know." I wish they would then just share it with us. But we're doing our best here. But there's a ton that we don't know yet.

COLLINS: Yes. And a bit -- a lot of this has come out from reporting. Now, that they claim that it's leaks.

HABERMAN: Yes, absolutely.

COLLINS: But a lot of it has come from reporting.

HABERMAN: No. We're just doing our jobs.

COLLINS: Yes.

HABERMAN: Yes.

COLLINS: Maggie Haberman, Elie Honig, thank you both, for joining me here, tonight.

Up next, there's a new development and other reporting that CNN first broke, former President Trump, on tape, talking about a classified document that he still had, allegedly, concerning a potential attack on Iran. At the time, he tried to link it to the Joint Chiefs Chairman, Mark Milley that you see here.

Tonight, you'll hear directly from General Milley himself on that, and perspective, from the former Trump National Security Adviser, John Bolton.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COLLINS: Tonight, the top U.S. General, Mark Milley, is giving his take, on another chapter, in the Trump classified documents investigation.

[21:15:00]

This was reporting that CNN broke, last week that the former President was recorded, in July 2021, indicating that he had a classified Pentagon document, pertaining to a potential attack, on Iran, and implying that it would counter what his top General, Mark Milley, was saying.

Those comments were apparently, in response, to a "New Yorker" article, saying that Milley had warned Trump, against striking Iran, reportedly telling Trump, quote, "You're going to have a effing war."

CNN's Oren Liebermann spoke exclusively, with General Mark Milley, who was only willing to say this, about that investigation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: The former President suggested in a book by Mark Meadows that it was your desire to attack Iran, and he was saying no.

Is that what happened?

GEN. MARK MILLEY, JOINT CHIEFS CHAIRMAN: Well, it'd be entirely inappropriate, Oren. Thanks for the opportunity to comment on that. It'd be entirely inappropriate for me to comment on an ongoing federal investigation. And I'm not going to do that now. So --

LIEBERMANN: Not even clarify what happened there?

MILLEY: No, I think it's inappropriate. There's ongoing federal investigation. And I'm not going to comment, one way or another, on any of the issues, concerning that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: Let's get more insight tonight, from former Trump National Security Adviser, John Bolton.

And thank you, Ambassador, for being here.

You heard from General Milley, there, weighing in. We do know from our reporting that he has spoken to investigators, in this case. But when it comes to this document that Trump allegedly had, on plans, to potentially strike Iran, do you know which document Trump could have been holding, in his hands, during this recording?

JOHN BOLTON, FORMER TRUMP NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: Well, I don't think there's any way of knowing.

And given Trump's propensity, to overstate things, it's entirely possible he was holding, in his hand, something like the lunch menu, from the Bedminster Grill, that day, and that he was embellishing on what a document that Mark Milley might have prepared, would say.

So, this goes to a pretty fundamental point. I don't have any doubt, there are very sensitive documents involved here. But until you actually see them, I think it's important not to kind of overhype, what may be at stake here, particularly with Trump, whose propensity to bluster? There's actually a better word for that. I won't use on TV. But his propensity to bluster is unending.

COLLINS: Well, I think there's concern, from prosecutors here, though, because they clearly want to know more about this. I mean, they brought the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff in, to talk about it.

And, of course, we don't actually know which document Trump was holding, at that time, if he was simply referencing this document.

But what our reporting did show is that the Justice Department wanted this document, and they sent a subpoena. They made clear, to Trump's attorneys, I was told, that they wanted this document specifically that he was talking about, on tape. But Trump's attorneys could not locate the document, to produce it.

So, if he was holding that document and they were unable to find it, and there is a document related to Iran out there? How much does that concern you about how it could compromise the U.S. national security?

BOLTON: Well, if it were an actual document that the Pentagon produced, as a war plan? That would be one thing.

If it's simply Trump, making it up, as he goes along, that could explain why they can't find it, because it never existed. I mean, the other explanation is he destroyed it. And that would be a very serious matter, because it would show, I think, clearly, a guilty intent that he had a highly classified document.

The idea that you can take though, the real official documents, the Pentagon works on, and kind of spread them around, even to the President, I would be very surprised at that. They are understandably kept, very tightly held, infrequently taken away, from the Pentagon, and usually removed from the Situation Room, or the Oval Office, with great care, when the people who brought them over leave.

COLLINS: And I should note that you also have a level of concern here. The Justice Department charged a suspected Iranian operative, last year, for allegedly plotting to assassinate you. But on this front of when it comes to the relationship that Trump had with General Milley, what were your observations about Trump's views toward Chairman Milley?

BOLTON: Well, when I was at the White House, this was in the period, where the successor, to General Joe Dunford, who was the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, at the beginning of the administration, was going on.

And my own personal view was that Mark Milley should be Chairman of the Joint Chiefs. It happened that Trump agreed with that, and appointed him. And I think, at the beginning, he was enthusiastic that it was a good choice. And I certainly believed that at the time.

I was gone, I think, when a lot of this interesting material happened. But it's obvious that relationship between Milley and Trump soured, as Trump's relationship, with so many other people soured.

[21:20:00]

COLLINS: As we see these investigations ramp up, we're going to wait to see what the Special Counsel does, on this documents investigation, Trump is still the front-runner, for the Republican nomination for president.

You've said you're considering a 2024 run. Have you made a decision on that yet?

BOLTON: No, I haven't. I want to see what happens with some of the other announcements. I would not do this frivolously, or merely, to criticize Trump's performance, in office, although that would be, I think, an extensive job, to do. It would be with the serious intent to win.

I think it's critical for the Republican Party, absolutely critical, and for the country as well that Trump not get our nomination. I think in a race against Biden, as unpopular as Biden is, Trump might well win.

So, I think this is a serious matter that Republicans are going to have to deal with. I wouldn't count on a deus ex machina, like an indictment, in the classified documents case, to save this on this. Knowing Trump, he may well turn it into an asset.

COLLINS: How soon do you think you need to make a decision on, like that, like on this, since we're seeing how big the field is getting?

BOLTON: Well, frankly, that's another consideration. If there's a small army of people, wandering around, seeking the nomination, I don't think there would be a case that I would be adding anything. But I think it's still early. I think this is a very strange cycle.

And I think honestly, in the next 90 days, it's a two-man race, between Governor DeSantis and Trump. I think, knowing Trump, as I do, that he will unload, on DeSantis, unceasingly. He's already started. And I think Governor DeSantis has got to come back with his case, as to why Trump's not qualified to be president.

And that's really a marker for everybody else, who might get in. You're not going to get the Republican nomination, by picking away at the other opponents. You're going to win the nomination by taking Trump on directly and beating him.

COLLINS: Well, they're not really taking Trump on directly. I mean, we saw eight of the candidates. Trump is the ninth, in Iowa, over the weekend. And none of them would really directly say his name, when they were on stage.

Do you think it's a mistake for candidates, like Governor DeSantis, to not directly criticize Trump, in this race?

BOLTON: 100 percent.

This is not an issue about philosophy, because Trump has no philosophy. And it's not really an issue, about his personality, or his temperament. It's about his competence, to be president, which he does not have. And I think unless you make that point, effectively, to voters, and ignore the 800-pound gorilla, it's impossible to make that case.

So, I think the person who ultimately wins the Republican nomination is the person who beats Trump. And, as you say, and I agree, I don't think anybody, has stepped up to that role. Maybe Chris Christie, will. God bless him if he does. But if he doesn't, somebody needs to.

In my case, though, it would be not just to do that, but to win the nomination.

COLLINS: Well, we'll see what you decide, ultimately.

I know you were listening, to the top of this show, as we were talking about this new CNN reporting, on investigators, looking into a pool that was drained, at Mar-a-Lago, and then flooded a room that has the computer servers that stored the surveillance footage that we know prosecutors have subpoenaed. Of course, still a lot of questions about that.

But what was your reaction to hearing that?

BOLTON: Well, I think the prosecutors are right to be suspicious, of Trump, and his capacity, to obstruct justice.

This particular episode, frankly, struck me as a little Rube Goldberg- like, but not beyond the realm of the possible. I don't remember the geography or the architecture enough to understand how draining the pool would have flooded this room.

But it's, look, you've got to pursue every lead in a case this serious. There's no doubt about it. It may turn out not to represent anything, or it may. We don't know. There's a lot we don't know. And that may be part of them.

COLLINS: Yes. A lot of questions remain. Ambassador John Bolton, thank you for your time, tonight.

BOLTON: Thank you.

COLLINS: Also, today, speaking of that growing field, Trump's former Vice President filed the paperwork, to run against him, begging the question, what does Trump think about Mike Pence's 2024 bid? We know, because he's talking about it. We'll tell you what he said. That's next.

Also, late new information, on the plane crash, in Virginia, which took four lives. Retired Captain Chesley Sullenberger "Sully" joins us next.

[21:25:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COLLINS: And the list just keeps on growing. Former Vice President, Mike Pence, former New Jersey Governor, Chris Christie, and current North Dakota Governor, Doug Burgum, all expected to officially announce their 2024 presidential campaigns, this week, meaning that already crowded GOP field is getting much more crowded.

Joining me now, to talk about that is Republican strategist, and former RNC Communications Director, Doug Heye; CNN Political Commentator, and former Trump White House Communications Director, Alyssa Farah Griffin; and former Deputy Chief of Staff, and Chief Spokesman, for the former South Carolina governor, Nikki Haley, Rob Godfrey.

We saw a lot of that last night, talking about Nikki Haley. But now, she's got some other challengers to her.

You used to work for the former Vice President, Mike Pence. He seems to be making this bet that there are enough remnants, of the old version, of the Republican Party, that where he can still gain some appeal. What's your sense of it?

ALYSSA FARAH GRIFFIN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, FORMER TRUMP WHITE HOUSE COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: I think that Mike Pence is going to make a very strong case. I think it's going to be a similar lane, to what we're going to -- we've seen Tim Scott, looking to run in, and Nikki Haley.

And keep in mind, with Vice President Pence, he goes into the race, as somebody, who can say, on day one, "I'm ready to be President." He's held Head of State meetings. He's traveled all over the world, as the Representative, of the U.S. government. He's been a governor. The credentialing is all there.

What's going to be -- he's got a number of challenges. I think two that stand out to me, at this juncture, are how do you differentiate yourself from the other traditional conservatives, in the race, a Nikki Haley and a Tim Scott? And then secondarily, how do you navigate the Trump effect? We all know that there's that core 30 percent that you've got to pull a little bit of, that are diehard with Trump. And it's uniquely hard for Mike Pence, post January 6, to get those folks.

[21:30:00]

So, the other theory of the case is that you try to activate some registered primary voters, who maybe didn't turn out in the Trump years, with a hopeful future-leaning message.

I don't sleep on Mike Pence, at least as somebody, who may rise in the polls, because he's incredibly politically astute. He's traveled all over the country, boosting other Republican candidates, before.

COLLINS: But --

ROB GODFREY, FORMER DEPUTY CHIEF OF STAFF & CHIEF SPOKESMAN FOR GOV. NIKKI HALEY: I totally agree with that. He's done well, since he left office.

He's made visits, to South Carolina, a number of times. He's cultivated evangelical voters, in those visits, to South Carolina, particularly places like the Palmetto Family Council. And he's done so, in other early primary states. So, he's done some work already, to lay the groundwork.

COLLINS: But who is voting for Mike Pence, in the Republican primary? What kind of voter is that?

GODFREY: Someone, who's gotten, who's got evangelical Christianity as one of their top, as one of their -- as one of their priorities, is something that's important to them. And, we'll watch him make his case, just like, we'll watch, all of these folks make the case.

As we said, last night, I think people are just starting to focus on this stuff. They just are going to see people in Town Halls. They'll see him in a Town Hall, on CNN, on Wednesday.

COLLINS: Yes. It's still been seen as a longshot bid. He's not polling --

DOUG HEYE, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: I guess --

COLLINS: -- out of the single-digits.

Chris Christie, also, about 24 hours for now will -- from now, will officially be in this race, we are told. What's that candidacy going to look like? Because, obviously he is one of the biggest Trump critics, even though he's someone, who wants help Trump, prepare for his debate, with President Biden.

HEYE: Yes. And one of the things that Chris Christie does so well is he pops balloons. We saw that in 2016, in a debate, where he popped Marco Rubio's balloon. He's going to be there to pop Donald Trump's balloon, if he can, if that's possible. And from there, if he has that moment, and he's too talented not to have that moment, then can he ride that wave, to where he's not just popping balloons, but he's doing more, as a candidate, and a potential nominee. We don't know that yet. But that's where Chris Christie is trying to position himself.

And if I can say about Mike Pence? It's not a coincidence that that Town Hall, coming up, with Dana Bash, is going to be in Iowa. We saw Bob Vander Plaats, last week, on CNN, say, "We need anybody but Donald Trump."

Iowa is the heart and soul of the evangelical community. It's why Mike Pence rode his motorcycle, this weekend. It's why he's going back. Those are the voters not just the voters that he's going to compete for, but where he's going to compete.

COLLINS: But what happens with Trump, and Christie's efforts here, if Trump doesn't show up, to the first debate? I mean, he -- or the second debate? He's threatening not to even show up. So, Chris Christie is on that debate stage, going after Trump, who's not there?

HEYE: Well, that's a big problem, for these candidates. And we know Donald Trump skipped a debate, in Iowa. And it should have hurt him, and didn't. The rules don't always apply to Donald Trump.

COLLINS: He didn't win Iowa though.

HEYE: He didn't win Iowa, He came close. And that's partially because he didn't have a real campaign, a professional campaign. And Ted Cruz was massively organized, and active, in Iowa, in a way that Trump wasn't.

It gives them more time. But obviously, Donald Trump brings viewers. And all of these candidates need viewers.

FARAH GRIFFIN: Well, and keep in mind, something else significant happened, with the current governor, today.

Governor Sununu announced that he would not be seeking the election, somebody who was considered an incredibly strong general election candidate, but would have had a hard time, in a GOP primary. But he came out with a scorching Op-Ed in "The Washington Post," saying, "I'm more effective taking on Trump from the outside."

I think you may be seeing the beginnings of an emerging, of Republican governors, or formers, who are sick of the Trump wing of the party. And they want to get the GOP back on course, the Chris Christies, the Asa Hutchinsons, the Governor, Sununu, leading that charge. So, I would keep an eye on that, because they have huge fundraising bases themselves. They have national networks. And they all have fairly big platforms.

HEYE: And what they're saying is -- and Sununu said this explicitly. "If your campaign, in December, is on rocky ground, you not only have to get out. We're going to call on you to get out."

FARAH GRIFFIN: Right.

COLLINS: He's saying it's not just knowing when to get in, but knowing when to get out.

Another candidate, Tim Scott. You are host of "The View." He came on "The View," today. Many of his fundraising emails, this caught my eye, because a lot of his fundraising emails, ever since he first announced, were about criticisms that the hosts of "The View" had.

He came on. And this is what happened.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SEN. TIM SCOTT (R-SC): And frankly, my side of the aisle, I think, is doing a fabulous job of making progress. The question is how do we measure that progress?

SUNNY HOSTIN, THE VIEW CO-HOST, ABC: How is that?

SCOTT: Well, let me just give you a couple examples.

(AUDIENCE LAUGHTER)

SCOTT: So, when you think about --

(AUDIENCE APPLAUSE)

SCOTT: This is good news, yes, so.

(AUDIENCE APPLAUSE)

SCOTT: I thought you only had one question, but I'll give you the answer to it anyway.

WHOOPI GOLDBERG, "THE VIEW" CO-HOST, ABC: Hey --

SCOTT: So, here's how we're so --

GOLDBERG: And that was -- that was me talking to you. So, I'd to --

SCOTT: OK. I will --

GOLDBERG: So, I'd love that.

SCOTT: I'm going to lay it there (ph).

GOLDBERG: So, I come next to her?

SCOTT: Come on over here. Come on over here.

(AUDIENCE LAUGHTER & APPLAUSE)

SCOTT: Let's have a conversation.

FARAH GRIFFIN: Come on, ladies.

GOLDBERG: Sit, sir, sit, sit, sit.

SCOTT: Yes. So --

(AUDIENCE LAUGHTER & APPLAUSE)

SCOTT: Let me give you this, a couple short answers, as I was just talking with Ana about the fact that --

ANA NAVARRO, "THE VIEW" CONTRIBUTOR, ABC: Yes. Your back looks pretty damn good, from here.

HOSTIN: Not without fixing the structures and the systemic racism that is embedded in this country.

(AUDIENCE APPLAUSE)

SCOTT: Well the fact of the matter is that we don't have to agree --

(AUDIENCE APPLAUSE)

SCOTT: -- we don't have to agree on the fact that the -- your definition of systemic --

GOLDBERG: Paul (ph)? Paul (ph)? Go up and tell him. Go tell him.

SCOTT: Tell for the amount (ph).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have to go to commercial. We'll come back. You're going to --

SCOTT: You guys. I think -- I think you all have to wait a break --

(AUDIENCE APPLAUSE)

(CROSSTALK)

NAVARRO: You think Disney is the radical left?

SCOTT: Well I'm talking about finishing my answer.

NAVARRO: No. But do you think Disney is radical left?

[21:35:00]

SCOTT: Well I think Disney and Ron had been in a combat zone, for a number of months, over what I thought was the right issue, as it relates to our young kids, and what they're being indoctrinated with. I thought he started off on the right foot on that issue. That is --

(AUDIENCE BOOING)

GOLDBERG: Ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah.

NAVARRO: Not on the --

(CROSSTALK) GOLDBERG: No, no, no, no, not here.

I'm sorry, sir.

Do not boo. This is "The View." We accept. We don't have to believe everything people say.

FARAH GRIFFIN: Yes.

GOLDBERG: But you cannot boo people here please. You cannot do it.

FARAH GRIFFIN: Yes.

(AUDIENCE APPLAUSE)

GOLDBERG: Please continue.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COLLINS: Alyssa, what was it like to be, at that table, today?

FARAH GRIFFIN: Well, listen, getting booed by the "The View" audience, as a Republican, in a primary, is a badge of honor. I said that to Governor Sununu, who also got booed. I've been booed. Tim Scott held his own.

I'm -- believe the only Republican primary voter, at that table. And listen, my co-hosts, they're liberals. Their hearts and minds weren't going to be changed on, if they were going to support Tim Scott.

But I think what he showed them, the audience, and the viewers, at home, is this is a man of substance, with an incredible command of the facts, and who can interact with people, who fundamentally disagree with him, and challenge him.

And I would know, on behalf of "The View," nobody has gone on to win the presidency, in 15 years, without appearing before our audience, and coming on our show. So, it's a powerful place.

COLLINS: You're from South Carolina. What do you think?

GODFREY: Well look, irrespective of whether you agree with what Tim Scott, and Nikki Haley, had to say, about whether America's racist, I think we all can agree they both deserve to be heard, as both of whom are members of minorities, are of communities of color.

They grew up and had unique experiences. And their voices deserve to be heard. They don't deserve to be canceled. They don't deserve to be ignored, on issues like this. And I hope this is only the beginning of the kind of conversation, we can have, surrounding the primary, for Tim Scott and for Nikki Haley.

COLLINS: Yes, a lot of conversations that we'll be having about that in this primary.

Rob, Doug, Alyssa, thank you all for joining me tonight. HEYE: Thank you.

COLLINS: Another 2024 contender, as Alyssa noted there, Republican critic, of Trump, making an announcement, right here, on CNN, today, ending all the speculation. That's next.

Also, "Sully" Sullenberger, on new reporting that we just have in, new details, of what might have led to a tragic private jet, going down, over the weekend that took four lives, including that of a 2-year-old child.

[21:40:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COLLINS: New Hampshire governor, Chris Sununu, says he will not throw his hat, in the 2024 presidential race, for the GOP nomination. This was in an exclusive interview, with Dana Bash. The fourth-term governor said that he is tired of Republicans, losing Senate and governor's races, and wants more Independents and young voters, to join his side of the aisle.

Dana Bash joins us now.

Dana, you have interviewed Governor Sununu, many times. He has been speculating about this run. Were you surprised by his decision in the end?

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT, CNN ANCHOR, INSIDE POLITICS: Not as much, given where we have seen the field go, and the dynamic and the race go, in recent weeks, particularly Kaitlan, since the Town Hall that you did, with former President Donald Trump, in Chris Sununu's home state of New Hampshire.

And that's part of what I wanted to ask the Governor, whether or not the popularity that Donald Trump still has, in the Granite State, factored into his decision, not to run.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BASH: Governor, Donald Trump is still very popular, here, in New Hampshire. Was there any part of you that thought, "If I run and I lose to Donald Trump? That would be embarrassing."

GOV. CHRIS SUNUNU (R-NH): Oh, no, no, no, not at all. My choice, in terms of running, and the strategy, was really all based in Iowa. I knew if I did well, in Iowa, obviously we were going to do very well here.

BASH: You were going to play in Iowa?

SUNUNU: Oh, very much of -- that was it. That was the game. Because, like I said, there's so many folks in Iowa that right now, don't participate in that caucus, that you could go out, that you can engage with, that you can invite to the party. You know how many votes you need to win Iowa? 85,000, 90,000, that's it. Out of a State of over 3 million people, something like that. So, there's a huge opportunity, to actually engage them one-on-one, in a retail politics style, which frankly, I know how to do very well.

BASH: So, if you did end up running, you are confident that you would have won the New Hampshire primary, you would have beaten Donald Trump?

SUNUNU: If I had done well, in Iowa, yes.

If I hadn't done well, in Iowa, I think people would say, "Oh, he tried. It's not going to happen." And then even a lot of my supporters here would just have moved on. That would have been logical to think.

BASH: And another part of the chatter, which I'm sure you heard, was, "Well, if Chris Sununu runs, it will potentially take the New Hampshire primary off the table." And that's not something that most people, in New Hampshire, who very much cherish --

SUNUNU: Sure.

BASH: -- the first-in-the-nation primary status, and all that comes with it, were excited about. How much did that factor in?

SUNUNU: It didn't really factor into my decision. But it's not -- it's a logical argument. I mean, that was a logical -- a concern, I definitely had.

Not so much that it factored into whether I should or shouldn't run or not. That was really more about me, and the party, and where we should go. Obviously, I very much cherish the, personally, New Hampshire primary. I think it would have been strong either way, but a legitimate concern.

BASH: You have been saying, for months, that Donald Trump will not be the nominee. Are you still certain of that the way you were, let's say, in March or even --

SUNUNU: No.

BASH: -- back in the fall?

SUNUNU: No, in fact, that's one of the reasons why I'm not running, because he could be the nominee, if more folks don't start talking about what the Republican Party is about, not just what Donald Trump is about -- stands for.

Donald Trump is about himself. I mean, that's obvious. That shouldn't be news to anybody. The Republican Party is big -- it has to be bigger than ourselves. And it traditionally has been.

And there's an argument that he's not even a real Republican, right? He put a "R," after his name, but he doesn't carry fiscal discipline. He said he was going to drain the swamp. He didn't do it, or didn't know how to do it. He said he was going to secure the border. He didn't do it. He said he was going to give us health care reform. He didn't do it. So, there's just so many things that he talked about and didn't achieve.

BASH: Do you believe that those candidates, who are not Donald Trump, should be more aggressive, in calling out Donald Trump, and differentiating themselves, with him, specifically, by name? Do it more directly?

SUNUNU: Absolutely. Because they're not just differentiating themselves with Donald Trump. They need to, as in concert, differentiate the party, from Donald Trump, right?

[21:45:00]

If everyone is talking with the same voice, and they all agree? There're just some of them are just a little bit afraid or timid to say it. But if they're all being very candid, and talking with the same voice, I think America will realize "Wait, that's what -- these 12 people over here, that's where the Republican Party is. Not where yesterday's news of Donald Trump is."

And so, I think that's one of my frustrations. And if I can be a little more candid, about it, if I can get other folks to be a little more candid?

And I get, a lot of folks will get in the race. But we're going to make sure and do everything we can, to use the leverages, we have, the influence we have, with our voice, and otherwise, to get them also out of the race. "Thanks for playing." Come November, December, we have to winnow this thing down. We're not going to wait till Super Tuesday, to winnow it down, to a one- or two-candidate race.

BASH: Tim Scott, Nikki Haley, Mike Pence, let's just start there. Do you see a path for any of them to win?

SUNUNU: Oh, I think so. Look, I think almost any candidate has a path. I think the debates will be really critical, right? Who can get up on that stage and show something and inspire people, and have a --

BASH: You really wanted to get up on that debate stage.

SUNUNU: I did. I love debates. I do. And I think I know them.

BASH: But you're taking yourself out of that.

SUNUNU: And I'm willing to help any candidate who wants to know how to debate the right way.

BASH: You really wanted to be on the debate stage with Donald Trump?

SUNUNU: Well, in some ways, I'll still be hitting him. I'll still be debating him, because he is not what the future of this party is about. So, I'm not going away. I'm not going to stop having a voice.

BASH: So, you'll just be doing it from the audience? SUNUNU: Yes and a little more unleashed, maybe. It's not about me, right? It isn't a -- "Hey, I'm doing this because, I mean, it's in the self-interest of Chris Sununu." It's, this is what the party needs to talk to.

BASH: So, if he is the nominee, will, the Democrats win?

SUNUNU: Oh, yes. He can't win in November of 2024. Oh, the math has shown, Donald Trump has no chance, of winning, in November of 2024. He wouldn't even win Georgia. If you're a Republican that can't win Georgia of November 2024, you have no shot. And he's proven that. So, and not only has he proven it, but the candidates he gets behind, in a good conservative state, like Georgia, lose the race.

His messaging doesn't translate. It does well with a hardcore 30 percent, 35 percent base. But he loses everybody be on there. And no one is undecided about the former President. There's no -- there's no one out there going "Well, maybe I might consider voting." No, you know where you are. He's a known commodity. And so, the math doesn't add up.

So, if Republicans nominate him, then we're saying a vote for him in the primary is effectively a vote for Joe Biden. I mean, that's ultimately how the math will play out.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BASH: So, Kaitlan, not only does Chris Sununu want to be a big voice, on a national level, for how this race is going to go. He is obviously the sitting governor of the first-in-the-nation primary State of New Hampshire.

He says he will endorse in the race. He hasn't even decided -- even begun to decide, who he's going to do. But, as you can imagine, the calls and the texts are coming in pretty fast. He's going to be one lobbied, one corded governor, for the next, what, six months or more.

COLLINS: Yes. And of course, this week, we're seeing, there are even more candidates that will be likely texting and calling him.

Dana Bash, great interview. Thank you.

Up next, sonic booms, as fighter jets were scrambled, over Washington D.C., after a private jet goes way off course. We have new information, tonight, about what might have gone wrong, and when.

Captain "Sully" Sullenberger, of "Miracle on the Hudson" fame, joins us, with his insights, next.

[21:50:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COLLINS: A private jet, off course, and unresponsive, sent fighters, into the air, which produced this sonic boom that was heard, throughout Washington, on Sunday. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(VIDEO -- SONIC BOOM FROM U.S. F-16 FIGHTER JETS)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: The sound that caused a lot of alarm frightened many, is the sound of a team of F-16 fighter jets, as they scrambled, to intercept the small plane, which was headed, toward restricted airspace. We are now just learning that the FAA lost contact, with the plane, only 15 minutes, after it took off from Tennessee.

Ultimately, it went down, in rural Virginia, which we were told, ultimately killed the pilot, and all three passengers, who were on board.

Joining us now is C.B. "Sully" Sullenberger, the former U.S. Ambassador to the International Civil Aviation Organization.

And of course, more well-known, by many, he was at the helm of the US Airways flight 1549, which safely landed, on the Hudson River, in New York, so, the perfect person here to speak with, tonight, Ambassador.

And when you hear this new information that's coming out, including from the FAA that they lost contact with this plane, just 15 minutes after it took off, what does that tell you?

CAPTAIN C.B. "SULLY" SULLENBERGER, FORMER U.S AMBASSADOR TO INTERNATIONAL CIVIL AVIATION ORGANIZATION: Well, it's good to be with you.

We will find out probably over a year in the future when the National Transportation Safety Board has completed their investigation, and make public, their findings. But this kind of an incident, this accident, has the earmarks, of a loss of cabin pressurization, as being a likely factor.

COLLINS: If that is what happened here, and there have been the questions about hypoxia, and if there was explosive decompression, as we were hearing, from experts, earlier, would there not have been an indication beforehand that something was wrong?

SULLENBERGER: Well, one of the things the investigators will hope to find out. And this aircraft probably was not equipped with a cockpit voice recorder, or digital flight data recorder.

They'll be depending upon looking at the physical evidence, is what did the pilot know, when did the pilot know it? What indications did he or she have? And what actions were they able to take? What actions did they take? And I think it's going to be a long investigation, a lot of old-fashioned investigation, without a lot of digital evidence, for them, to look at.

COLLINS: What are the first steps they take, in an investigation? Because, we heard from one NTSB investigator, who said they think it's going to be pretty difficult, because of just what the scene looked like. They said it was very fragmented scene, where the plane actually went down.

SULLENBERGER: Right. It's going to make it incredibly difficult. This, like one of the accidents, I investigated, at the airline, back in the 80s was a near-vertical descent, a very high-energy impact that just fragmented the airplane, and everything in it. It's going to take all -- it's going to be a complicated puzzle, of lots of pieces that they'll have to try to put back together, and make sense of.

[21:55:00]

COLLINS: Yes. I have questions.

SULLENBERGER: Old-fashioned detective work.

COLLINS: And our thoughts obviously are with the lives, who were lost, in that. We've learned only more about them in the coming hours.

Ambassador Sullenberger, you're the best person, to talk about this, tonight, the most expertise on this. Thank you for joining us with that perspective.

SULLENBERGER: You're very welcome.

And as you said, our thoughts have to be with the families.

COLLINS: Absolutely.

We'll be back in just a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COLLINS: Vice President, Mike Pence, has just filed papers, with the Federal Election Commission, signaling that he is entering the race, for president.

So, with that in mind, a quick programming note, before we go, tonight. Make sure you join us here, on CNN, Wednesday night, as the former Vice President, is going to be taking questions, and taking the stage, for an exclusive Republican Presidential Town Hall. You can catch that at 9 PM Eastern, right here, only on CNN, with my colleague, Dana Bash.

Thank you so much for joining us, tonight.

"CNN TONIGHT" with Alisyn Camerota starts now.

Hi, Alisyn.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST, CNN TONIGHT: Hi, Kaitlan. Thank you very much for that.

Good evening, everyone. I'm Alisyn Camerota. Welcome to CNN TONIGHT.