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CNN Live Event/Special

Soon: Trump Lands In Florida Ahead Of Arraignment; Miami Officials Update Trump Security Preps; Trump To Hold Fundraiser After Tuesday Arraignment. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired June 12, 2023 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ERIN BURNETT, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, I'm Erin Burnett in New York.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Jake Tapper in Washington, DC. Welcome to our CNN's special coverage of the federal indictment of Donald Trump.

In about an hour, former President Trump's going to land in Florida. He's going to begin preparing for tomorrow's unprecedented historic court date. Trump's expected to hunker down at his Doral Resort where he will meet with his defense team, a team that hasn't even been finalized yet just a day before he is arraigned --

BURNETT: Yes.

TAPPER: -- on 37 criminal, criminal counts -- felony counts over his handling or mishandling allegedly of classified documents. Making him the very first ex-president in history to get hit with a federal indictment.

BURNETT: And taken just moments, we're going to hear from officials in South Florida on the security precautions that they are taking ahead of that court appearance. You know, we already, of course, Jake knows that -- all right, let's go right there and listen. They have just started.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FRANCIS SUAREZ, MAYOR OF MIAMI, FLORIDA: OK, good afternoon. I'm Mayor Francis Suarez, the Mayor of the City of Miami. Obviously, we're all here because tomorrow, there's going to be an event in downtown Miami at the courthouse. And we wanted to assure the public that we've already begun preparations for the event tomorrow.

We're joined here by the Chief of Police, Chief Morales, who has -- and will talk about what our plan for security is for tomorrow and to make sure that everyone has a right to peacefully express themselves and exercise their constitutional rights. And obviously, do it in a peaceful manner.

In our city, A., we obviously believe in the Constitution and believe that people should have the right to express themselves. But we also believe in law and order. And we know that. And we hope that tomorrow will be peaceful.

We encourage people to be peaceful in them demonstrating how they're -- how they feel. And we're going to have the adequate forces necessary to ensure that. There may be, depending on the crowd size, some road closures. So, people who live in the downtown area should expect additional traffic and should prepare for that.

It's not in our initial plan. Initially, we're going to sort of take it step by step and I'll let the chief explain how he will make that determination as to what roads are closed, how they're closed, and when they're closed. But the commuter should expect the possibility of some disruption.

We are prepared for a variety of different size crowds. And obviously, crowd size is dependent on a variety of issues, including but not limited to the weather. And so, we have the ability to increase our capacity if necessary.

Our fire department fire chief, I spoke to him right before this press conference. And he has assured me also that there will be an increased fire rescue level of preparedness, including EMS services and what he would consider a number of on-duty personnel that are both at the task and command levels.

We're happy to be joined by our partners from Miami-Dade County, thank you so much for being here. Obviously, we have at some level, overlapping jurisdiction. And we're working not just with them, but I think it's safe to say we're working with partners -- our law enforcement partners at all levels to make sure that we're communicating, to make sure that we're prepared, to make sure we're sharing information and ultimately to ensure that tomorrow goes off without any hitch. And so, we wanted to assure that -- ensure to the public that we are ready. Thank you. And now I'm going to turn it over -- yes, for sure.

(INAUDIBLE)

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BURNETT: All right, you're watching the mayor of Miami, of course, talking about some of the security procedures and precautions that they are taking right now speaking in Spanish. He had just delivered in, in English. So, let's go outside the courthouse to Evan Perez there.

[14:05:02]

So, Evan, you know, you hear Mayor Suarez talking about the plans, talking about how they say that they're ready for this. What -- how does that fit with what you know, what you've been reporting on how Trump plans to come in and obviously, how he's going to be spending these next two -- let's just call it 24 to 36 hours that he has once he lands in Miami ahead of and after he appears in court?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: You know there's a lot of concern, Erin, certainly some of the federal law enforcement folks who've just arrived just in the last 24 hours you know they take a walk around the building. And I think you can see behind me, they put up recently some of this police tape to surround at least parts of the building. And there are a few plastic railings that they have stacked up. Presumably, they're trying to figure out a way to have a perimeter.

But one of the concerns that they have -- one of the concerns that you hear from officials who are watching some of the threat briefings that they are getting is that there might be thousands of people will be drawn here, in part because the former president and his allies are asking for them to come and show up here. And so, the question is, you know, are the local police ready? Are the resources here ready for what could turn ugly at any moment, right?

It is -- you can't predict it. But it's certainly you want to be ready for it if it turns that way. And so that's one of the concerns I hear from talking to people. Shimon Prokupecz has been talking to his sources as well. And we're hearing a lot of concern because of you know that -- the -- some of the Trump supporter groups like the Proud Boys and so on, who have already said that they want to show up here. So, again, the procedure is already starting to ramp up, some of the protections you can see being put in place, but it's not clear that they're quite ready.

BURNETT: So, Evan, you have some new insight as well about why the special counsel decided to bring this case in Florida, right? The whole venue issue, right? Until a week or 10 days ago, everyone just made this assumption --

PEREZ: Yes.

BURNETT: -- this was going to be in Washington. That changed. They're bringing it in Florida instead of DC. What have you learned are the specifics as to why?

PEREZ: Well, they started making some of the -- some of the preparations for that just in the last few months, Erin. And the issue of venue is one of the things that I think you and I talked about just a couple of days ago. If you remember, the former president left town hours before Joe Biden was sworn in as president. And that meant that certainly these documents, when he went back to Mar-a-Lago, he was still president, and was still authorized to have it.

And so, that key law, the 793, that Espionage Act, which is the biggest charge here, the -- what prosecutors determined they had to do was bring the case here, which is where Mar-a-Lago -- Mar-a-Lago is located. And, of course, that brings some challenges for prosecutors. This is a -- probably a friendlier venue for the former president, certainly more friendly than the venue of Washington, DC where most of the grand jury testimony was being taken. So, we'll see in the coming days and weeks how this shakes out for prosecutors. It's definitely a change from what they initially thought, Erin.

BURNETT: Absolutely. All right, Evan, thank you so much. Jake.

TAPPER: Thank you so much, Erin. Let's bring in our CNN panel here we have with us.

CNN national security and political analyst David Sanger. CNN special correspondent Jamie Gangel. Anchor of CNN "INSIDE POLITICS SUNDAY" and senior political correspondent Abby Phillip.

Anchor of CNN's "INSIDE POLITICS" during the week and chief political correspondent Dana Bash. CNN senior legal analyst and former federal prosecutor Elie Honig. CNN senior law enforcement analyst Andrew McCabe, who served as FBI director. And also, with us. CNN contributor and former counsel for the Nixon White House, John Dean.

I'm sorry, that's all the time we have. Just joking. David Sanger, the Federal -- the federal indictment, the first ever against a former president, it's a huge test for the American judicial system. I think it's not a -- I think that can't be overstated. How important is it that the Justice Department doesn't swing and miss here?

DAVID SANGER, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY & POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, it's very important they don't swing and miss. And it's also important, Jake, that they don't appear to be swinging and missing. You know, we're all going to be watching this fascinated.

But some of the rest of the world -- and when the rest of the world looks at this, they say OK, we've seen this before, former leaders who were put on trial. Silvio Berlusconi, the Italian prime minister, who just -- former Italian prime minister who just died, himself was on trial. And there's a big test when that moment comes, which is the world's going to be looking at the United States that clearly is split in many ways politically at home.

But they're also looking for a test of this message that President Biden is sending out about the difference between democracies and autocracies, how you run a democracy. And so, the Justice Department has to not only show that this is not a swing and a miss, but that they have built a case that is fundamentally political at a moment that they're being charged with doing this for political purposes. And they're going to have to be pretty convincing. I think that's one of the reasons you saw these photographs in the indictment itself.

[14:10:17]

TAPPER: Yes.

ABBY PHILLIP, CNN ANCHOR & SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Is that so they're making the venue change plays into this really, in a critical way? I mean, from just a strictly political perspective, the argument that you're hearing from Republicans right now is that obviously all of this is political. But they have gone after judges before in New York. And Trump himself has gone after judges dating back all the way to the campaign when he intimated that a judge who was of you know, Hispanic descent couldn't you know --

TAPPER: (INAUDIBLE)

PHILLIP: -- couldn't be -- going to be fair, famously with your view, I believe. TAPPER: Yes.

PHILLIP: And -- but that's the MO. And so, if you're going to have this trial, it really does need to be in a venue that would allow all sides to feel like it's fair. And I don't know how you get more fair than a judge that was appointed by Trump, a judge that ruled favorably toward Trump in the -- in the last time she heard a case on this matter, and in an area that's West Palm Beach jury. I mean, that's a part of Florida that it's literally Trump's home.

TAPPER: Yes.

PHILLIP: And it's literally where you're going to find a lot of you know like-minded, right-leaning conservatives who are going to be sympathetic to Trump. So, we'll see how it shakes out. But I can't see a venue that would be more favorable to this president in -- under the circumstances.

TAPPER: You're quietly standing in the land of logic and reason and facts, and I appreciate it. But that's not --

PHILLIP: I tried.

TAPPER: That's not necessarily where this debate is. Jamie Gangel, interesting thing -- quote in the -- in the Washington Post today looking at the difference between these classified documents case and other -- involving other political leaders. And it notes that the indictment does not charge Trump with the illegal retention of any of the 197 documents that he did return to the Archives, which suggests that if Trump had simply returned all the classified documents he had when he was asked, he would never have been charged with any crimes. And the National Archives, in fact, issued an extraordinary uncharacteristic statement refuting some of the nonsense coming from his camp.

JAMIE GANGEL, CNN SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT: Look. This is a question we have -- we keep asking. Why he did not have to be here?

Just to underscore what you were saying. He returned finally, after a year of the Archives asking for them 15 boxes. There were highly sensitive classified documents in those boxes, including documents that they didn't even really know were missing, the security -- national security knew they were missing, but they were surprised to see some of them.

None of that is being charged here. So, if he had only returned everything, we would not be here today.

TAPPER: Yes.

GANGEL: It would not be an issue.

DANA BASH, CNN ANCHOR & CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Which is maybe why in the indictment, there is no mention of the Presidential Records Act. Because it -- which states that a lot -- a lot of the president's papers are owned by us, by the American people, and not by a president. And that's why they're supposed to keep and categorize and withhold everything -- not withhold, keep everything that they have. And perhaps that's the reason because when people like Mike Pence give it back, maybe we'll see there's an open investigation into Joe Biden, but other officials have accidentally taken records and they give it back, they don't tend to be charged.

TAPPER: Yes. And, Elie Honig, one of the things that's so remarkable about this case is not just that he wouldn't give these documents back, but that they were, A., so recklessly stored at Mar-a-Lago, a club, where who knows who gets access to the rooms where we saw these documents. We know of at least two Chinese nationals that got into that area, into Mar- a-Lago. We know of at least another con woman who claimed she was a member of the Rothschilds family who got into Mar-a- Lago.

And also, we have these two incidents mentioned in the indictment of Donald Trump seeming to -- at least allegedly showing the documents -- classified documents to just some you know mopes that were just in the room. If those two incidents hadn't happened, if the incidents with the -- with these guys that he showed the documents and the recklessness, do you think they would have charged just for the retention?

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: So, it's a great question. Legally, even if Donald Trump had never done those two things where he showed to people, or talked about the documents to two people, legally, they would still have a charge. They would still be able to meet the elements of the crime.

SANGER: Right.

HONIG: But prosecutors have to think beyond just doesn't meet the black and white elements. To me, if you could never show he did anything with these documents, you might have a problem with jury appeal. And that's why I think those two incidents are going to be so important because you can now argue to a jury, he took these documents and he used them.

He used them, not the worst thing and not as bad as giving them to a foreign country, not as bad as posting them online, but he used them to try to shape and manipulate the coverage and his political standing. It's not nothing. And it's some use of these.

[14:15:07]

And as far as the storage, Jake, reckless -- to say the least. I mean, they're on a stage. These boxes are stacked up. We see the photo on a stage where there were live events happening. These documents were sort of in a bathroom, next to the toilet and the shower.

And the thing that really sort of comes to life from this indictment is the obstruction. Reckless is one thing. But the obstruction, the attempt to take documents out of that storage room right before they sent their lawyer in there, go inspect what's in there, that's what we're going to turn over. And then when the lawyers are done, they move others back in. And the obstruction I think really jumps out here too.

TAPPER: And it indicated one of the things just listening to the doc -- the press conference from Miami. And you're listening to the mayor, Francis Suarez, talking about all the preparations. And like in a pre- 2021 January 6 world, that might all seem a little -- you know a little much. But we know what Donald Trump is capable of doing in terms of inciting crowds to violence into attacking federal buildings, we've seen it.

ANDREW MCCABE, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: I have to say that today, that seems a little short. And as every --

TAPPER: Oh, really? That's just --

MCCABE: -- as every hour passes by, we're not seeing much change on the ground down there, and our reports with Shimon and with Evan and folks who we have on the ground. There are some very basic things that you do to secure an event. And one in which you're going to have people expressing their First Amendment rights and political position.

So, you divide up the area. You pick out those places where you think you actually have to keep people out of to secure what's happening inside. That doesn't seem to be happening here.

We don't see any the large metal fences or the -- or the bicycle rack, barricades, things like that. And then you designate other areas where different groups can express their opinions and exercise their First Amendment rights in a way that doesn't jeopardize anyone else's security.

All of that requires a kind of very physical division of that space, either with barricades or vehicles blocking off streets. Removing vehicles that have been parked there overnight. These are all kinds of standard practices. And so far, we're not seeing a lot of that going.

TAPPER: Very interesting. Let me bring in John Dean. John, when Watergate happened, as you know better than I, many Americans were still standing by President Nixon, many members of Congress are still standing by him despite the vast evidence against him. And now Trump has some of the most fervent supporters we've ever seen in American politics, even more so than Richard Nixon. Why do you think there's such a difference?

JOHN DEAN, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, one of the things that occurred to me very early, something I didn't understand during Watergate, which is there are thorough authoritarian personalities that are attracted to the -- to the president's personality. We really have seen in Donald Trump that authoritarianism where he tries to be the daddy figure, if you will. And people like that, they want to be told what to do, how to think, others want to be in a similar role so they will follow a strong leader like that.

And I think after talking to countless social scientists who've been looking at this for decades, it explains a lot of the behavior we're seeing in the Republican Party. This is an authoritarian attraction. TAPPER: Very, very interesting. Also, of course, the conservative media ecosystem that exists now that didn't exert -- exist in the -- in the Nixon years.

DEAN: Sure.

TAPPER: But we'll come back to you and talk more about that. Thanks, everyone. Stay with us. Trump is not planning on sticking around in South Florida for very long.

He has plans for a fundraiser back in New Jersey as he vows to never drop out of the 2024 presidential race. We'll have more on that just ahead. And what are his 2024 rivals -- Republican rivals saying about all this? We'll have details on that.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:22:41]

BURNETT: All right. Sometime in the next hour, Donald Trump is going to touch down in Miami where he is landing because he asked to appear in federal court tomorrow. He will not be in South Florida for long though. CNN is learning that the ex-president will fly back to New Jersey after his arraignment where he will speak and hold a fundraiser at his golf club in Bedminster.

Our Kristen Holmes is live in Bedminster today. And, Kristen, I know this is all of your reporting. What more do you know?

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Erin, we are told that Trump is still going to continue to run for president in 2024. You know, as we've noted over the weekend, he said that he was in no way going to drop out of the race because of this. And we're told that he's going to continue with a normal presidential campaign.

But, of course, the "normal," when you work twice indicted former president, there's no idea among many advisors and Republicans as to what exactly this means, what exactly this looks like. And while you have his team and while you have Republicans encouraging him to continue running, and himself saying he's going to, it is very clear that these legal problems are mounting around him and they are weighing on him.

In Georgia over the weekend, he spoke for about 80 minutes. 40 minutes of that at the Georgia convention, a Republican Convention, was focused just on his legal problems. I was just going through his social media page.

He has one post about DeSantis and the Oklahoma governor endorsing him. Everything else is about his legal issues. So, even if again, they are trying to push him to run or he wants to run, this is consuming to him.

And the other question here is how Republicans feel -- Republican voters. I spoke to a source who really likes the former president, wanted him to be president, and wants him to be president again, who just texted me and said, this is all just so exhausting. And this has been a fear among some of the advisors that this is going to be some sort of Trump fatigue as these legal problems continue to grow.

But as we have noted, he will land in Miami. He's staying at his Doral Resort. He is meeting with attorneys. They are trying to beef up their Florida-based legal team.

It is unclear who they're reaching out to. But we do know that they have made several reach-out to law firm firms trying to gauge interest. Again, they're trying to beef out that team after two of his top attorneys resigned.

BURNETT: All right, thank you so much, Kristen, in Bedminster. And a panel of experts back with me. So, can we just start?

[14:25:02]

Alyssa, he is continuing with his campaign schedule. I mean, not just you know figuratively. He's literally going to fly back after being indicted, which is really -- the federal indictment, one of the most serious things that could happen to a person in this country. And go straight to a fundraiser.

ALYSSA FARAH GRIFFIN, POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: And I think we're going to hear really fiery remarks from him at that speech. Look. I think the last indictment showed us that he did very well. We'll see a bump in the polls following this because his base is so aligned with him.

But I want to say something. It is not just because of some magic of Donald Trump that even when he's twice indicted, he gets a bump in the polls. It is actually the dereliction of the other Republicans in the field, who will not challenge the fact that maybe they like his policies, maybe they want to run on a very similar platform, but we cannot be nominating somebody who was indicted by the Department of Justice. And by the way, here's why mishandling classified documents matters.

Nobody is making that case other than, I'd argue, maybe Asa Hutchinson and Chris Christie. So --

BURNETT: Right.

GRIFFIN: The fact that we saw that bump last time and we're going to again, is not just on Donald Trump, it's the field that is trying to run against him.

BURNETT: And yet, you know, Scott, you see it in the polls right now when you talk about the field, Alyssa, 61 percent of likely GOP voters prefer Trump. And that is a 38-percentage point gap --

SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes.

BURNETT: -- over the next most preferred person in a widening field. And that person is Ron DeSantis.

JENNINGS: Yes. And not only that. But if you look at the people who are supporting him or considering supporting him, it's almost all Republicans. And then DeSantis is next on that combination. And then everybody else is way down.

BURNETT: Right.

JENNINGS: So, it really would be up to DeSantis. But I think DeSantis has kind of hoping to hang around the rim and tippet in, in the event that Donald Trump bows out of the game here. And so -- but --

BURNETT: Which he's not going to do.

JENNINGS: That's the dilemma.

BURNETT: He's just not going to do it.

JENNINGS: That's the dilemma.

BURNETT: not by choice.

JENNINGS: Well, his best legal defense may ultimately be winning the presidency, so he has no reason to get out of the race. On your point, Alyssa, I think the one area where he could potentially be vulnerable is just whether you're convicted or not, whether you're guilty or not just the idea that you jeopardize national security, $you jeopardized military personnel, you jeopardize our national secrets, that to me makes you a little bit vulnerable because you want to make arguments against Democrats that they don't take our national security seriously that they're not --

BURNETT: Right.

JENNINGS: -- you know party for this. But it's a hard argument to make when you've got your own obvious problems to deal with on that front. So, if I were attacking it, like Chris Christie tonight, I might be going right at the national security argument.

GRIFFIN: Right.

JENNINGS: The commander-in-chief ultimately has to be responsible for this information. And we've accused the Democrats and you accused Hillary Clinton of not being responsible in 2016, how can you now have that right position?

BURNETT: Right, waving around documents.

JENNINGS: Yes.

BURNETT: Mondaire, they lay it out. Waving around, bragging national security documents.

MONDAIRE JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I wish that the national security implications were enough to you know prevent him from becoming the Republican nominee. But this is someone who openly excuses the behavior of Vladimir Putin, who just congratulated the leader of North Korea. I mean, I don't know --

BURNETT: Right. On his appointments to the WHO board -- (INAUDIBLE)

JONES: You know -- I mean, those things should also be disqualifying for someone you want to be the sort of military leader of the country, right? The -- I'm really concerned that we will see 2020 all over again, the same two people at the top of the ticket. And it will become even more dire, from my perspective, to make sure that someone who would flout the law and the way that he has now been indicted for doing and will continue to be indicted for doing is potentially going to you know have the keys to the nuclear codes.

BURNETT: And you know to Mondaire's point, look, this is D-list documents that he had.

KAREN FRIEDMAN AGNIFILO, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Right.

BURNETT: CIA, NSA, goes down the list. What department did he not have a document from? But also, they go through the waving it around and showing the documents, right? And these are national security documents, right? They include war plans.

They saw him doing it. They don't need to show the why -- they don't need to explain the why. It's completely unnecessary.

Karin, do you think it would help? Do you think that they're going to at some later point, despite how detailed this actual indictment is?

AGNIFILO: Yes. Well, as you point out, motive is not an element of the crime. It's not something you have to prove to a jury, which is why you don't see it in here. And -- but it's something that if you're a prosecutor, you always try to provide motive to the jury because it's compelling, the why matters, and what were you trying to do.

And, frankly, I was hoping we would see a little more in there about why. And we know that Jack Smith was the -- you know, a special counsel was subpoenaing information right around the time that this was coming out, trying to tie these documents for the countries that he has documents for to properties and business interests that he has. And I don't know if he'll be able to develop that evidence by the time they go to trial, but it's certainly not in there yet.

BURNETT: And could that, Laura, to this point, be additional charges that are coming? Because this is a really important point, right --

LAURA COATES CNN CHIEF LEGAL ANALYST: Yes.

BURNETT: -- that they were trying to get business documents relate to Saudi Arabia or other countries that extensively may cross-reference with some of these classified documents? Could those charges be coming?

COATES: Yes. You can only supersede the Cotton indictment and alter it in some way. You run the risk though of such a high-profile case that undermines the credibility. If it's less than it is right now, for example, or if there are other facts, you'll have the jury saying themselves, not only the motive but why didn't you do that in the first instance?