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CNN Live Event/Special

Soon: Trump Heads To Historic Court Appearance; Trump Pleads Not Guilty To Federal Charges That He Illegally Kept Classified Documents At Florida Estate; Trump Under Arrest In Federal Documents Probe. 1-1:30p ET

Aired June 13, 2023 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: You're looking at the aerial view of the federal courthouse in Miami. Demonstrations underway ahead of the first federal arraignment of a former U.S. president in the history of this nation. Security is tight as Donald Trump is about to respond to the most serious criminal charges that twice impeached and now twice indicted former commander-in-chief has faced.

Right now, Trump is at his golf club just outside Miami. He's expected to head to the courthouse soon. This is CNN Special Coverage of the Arrest and Arraignment of Donald Trump. I'm Anderson Cooper.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Jake Tapper. We're keeping a close watch on the courthouse where Trump is scheduled to surrender to authorities in the hours ahead. The former president will be placed under arrest. He will likely be fingerprinted electronically then he is expected to plead not guilty to the unprecedented 37 count indictment. Trump is accused of course of willfully mishandling highly-sensitive classified documents brought to his Mar-a-Lago resort after he left office.

He's also accused of allegedly conspiring to try to hide these documents these materials material from investigators stashing boxes in unsecured locations, including a ballroom and even a bathroom. Trump aide Walt Nauta is also charged in the indictment. He is expected to appear in court today, alongside his boss, the former president. This historic hearing comes after months of work by Special Counsel Jack Smith and his team.

It represents frankly a grave turn and the multiple investigations into Donald Trump, as Mr. Trump seeks to return to the White House as the Republican front runner in an already divisive presidential campaign. Our anchors and our correspondents are covering Trump's arrest and arraignment from every angle, including outside and inside the courthouse in Florida where the former president will appear soon.

Joining us throughout the coverage, CNN anchor and chief correspondent Kaitlan Collins. She's outside the courthouse in Miami. Kaitlan, what are you learning about what's been happening in Trump world at this critical moment for the former president and for the nation? KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF CORRESPONDENT: It is a critical moment, Jake. And a lot of his allies you're seeing publicly come in rally to his defense. I'm told that's happening after the former president was up late into the night last night before his scheduled arraignment here at the courthouse right behind me just in a matter of hours from now. He was urging them to come out and publicly defend him as you've seen several of them coming out and doing.

But he has also been attacking the Special Counsel Jack Smith repeatedly not only in private, I'm told, Jake, but also as we can see publicly on his Truth Social account continuing almost on an hourly basis to complain about this investigation. About the fact that he is now the first former president to face federal charges. Those charges, of course, that he'll be pleading not guilty to inside the courthouse behind me today.

Jake, that is despite the advice of his own legal team who have told him not to attack the Special Counsel, saying it is not in his best interest to have these repeated -- these repeated attacks on them. Of course, he has seemingly ignored that. He has continued to attack Jack Smith publicly going after him. Jake, I will say one thing that I did learn as we were reporting out on his legal team, which is very much still in flux as of this moment.

No new attorney was added in time for that arraignment today as he was working on that. But of course, when it comes to the venue here, he is pleased that this is happening here in Florida, Anderson, that it is not being -- these federal charges being filed in Washington. He believes that this venue happening here in Florida, of course, a lot remains to be seen. He does believe it will benefit him. Of course, whether or not it does, that remains to be seen.

COOPER: It's quite extraordinary. He was not able to get another attorney. Do you know why?

COLLINS: They've been meeting with them. I mean, there are many reasons that we've heard them. Some attorneys say they don't want to represent the former president. Obviously, as I was just saying, he doesn't always heed their legal advice. There's always questions about whether or not he's going to pay them or pay them in full. I will note the two attorneys who resigned last week were being paid because we could see it in those super PAC filings.

Essentially, a lot of political donations that were going to those fees for his legal fees. He was not always happy about how public those were in public record. But Jim Trusty and John Rawley, the two attorneys who are handling this resigned. One of the attorneys that he's considering adding to the team, Anderson, was seen at Trump National Doral yesterday, Ben Keuhne. It's not clear what happened. Why he was not added to the team and time for today.

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Essentially, they believe that today was not a hard deadline for them. That it's going to be after what happens today when they get that next court date. That is when they need to have the legal team in place. But it is going to be a legal team that is not intimately involved with this case. I mean, Todd Blanche, who is going to be the main attorney there today was only hired by Trump in early April.

The other two attorneys had been litigating that case since last August. And so, it does remain to be seen what that team is ultimately going to look like, Anderson.

COOPER: Kaitlan Collins, we'll go back to you shortly. I want to go over to CNN's Paul Reid who's also outside the courthouse. What's happening inside that building right now, Paula, and what -- what's going to be going on in the hours ahead? What should we expect?

PAULA REID, CNN SENIOR LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Anderson, this is a solemn day, not just for former President Trump but also for the entire country. This is the first time that former leader of the free world will be arraigned on federal criminal charges. And in just a few hours, former President Trump will arrive here at the federal court to surrender. Now he is expected to arrive by car.

We probably won't have the chance to see him because they'll arrive in a garage that we cannot see. But once he gets inside, Anderson, his process will be more or less like it would be for any other defendant. He's going to have some paperwork to fill out. They'll take his fingerprints but we do not expect at this time that there will be a mug shot. Then he's going to go inside the hearing room.

Right now, there are many reporters and some members of the public in sight waiting to be able to watch this hearing. The charges that have been filed against him will be read and he'll have a chance to plea. We expect that he will plead not guilty. Now at the defense table with him well, the two attorneys. Todd Blanche and Chris Kise. And as Kaitlan noted, he is getting a little rowdy here. Anderson, I'm going to toss it back to you.

COOPER: Assume that's not your radio. Paula, we'll check in with you a little bit longer. CNN Shimon Procupekz who's tracking the security situation outside the Miami Federal Courthouse. Shimon, Trump called for his supporters to show up and "protest peacefully." While some supporters of the former president have obviously used violent rhetoric. What are you seeing there?

SHIMON PROCUPEKZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: No, look, they've showed up. There's a couple of 100 people here, Anderson. I'm going to show you behind me what's going on. This is where most of them have been gathering here along North West Miami Avenue here. This is where they've all been since this morning. More have been coming out just in the last few hours.

As the hours go by waiting for the former president to arrive. I want to show you the security situation here, Anderson. So, what the police have done is they're using these bikes. This is the entrance into the courthouse. And they have positioned themselves here along the entrance, the perimeter of the courthouse, and then you can see they're using vehicles to block some of the entrances.

A little different than what we're used to seeing in these situations. You know, when we were in Manhattan, we saw metal barriers being used, we saw fencing being used to try and secure the perimeter. We're not seeing that. And some people have raised some issues with that. I want to show you more around here, as more supporters have gathered here. And they are really stretched out all along.

This street here really just commingled with many of the media. There are some counter protesters, not many. But really the police have not done anything here to separate them from any of the groups, from the media. And then we go out here to the street, Anderson, where traffic is generally open. And what we've been seeing out here is actually supporters driving in their pickup trucks and jeeps driving down this street with flags, waving flags and showing their support.

So that's been the scene out here. We had one brief little scare here earlier, the police -- there was a suspicious package, a suspicious item that they cleared. But all else really, it's been peaceful here, as the supporters here wait for the former president's arrival.

COOPER: How many people are out there? I mean, hard to tell between media and protesters. But how big is this?

PROCUPEKZ: It's a couple of 100, Anderson. I mean, we're not seeing the thousands at least so far, that some law enforcement had feared would show up. And we know that law enforcement is prepared for the thousands to show up here. But it's several 100. The other part of it is that if you stretch around the block, some of them are gathering just up the block from here. So, it's really hard to tell but it's not a massive presence because they are commingled, you know, we're kind of all together with the media.

So it's kind of hard to tell, but I would say, Anderson, probably like a couple of 100 at this point.

COOPER: All right, Shimon Procupekz, appreciate it. Jake, back to you in D.C.

TAPPER: All right. Thanks so much, Anderson. I want to take a second here to tick through the specific charges former President Trump is facing in this indictment. We have 31 counts of willful retention of National Defense Information. One count of conspiracy to obstruct justice, one count of withholding a document or record, one count of corruptly concealing a document or a record.

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One count concealing a document in a federal investigation, one count, scheme to conceal, one count, false statements and representation. Elie Hoenig, former prosecutor, federal prosecutor. Help explain how serious and significant these 37 charges are.

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Yes. So I think it's helpful to break these charges into two categories. First, there are the documents charges. These are counts one through 31. Each of those 31 charges attaches to a specific document that was recovered from Mar- a-Lago. 21 of them were actually recovered by the FBI during the search warrant in August. The other 10 were turned over by Donald Trump's team in response to a subpoena.

Now, to explain what this count means. Willful. Willful means intentionally and in violation of law. Retention is the second word. Retention just means to hold on to something, to possess something when you're not supposed to. And then this is important. National defense information. Not classified information. So, a lot of the discussion about where these documents classified, declassified, is not going to matter.

What matters is do they relate to the national defense? We see the indictment gives us some detail about that. Then, the second category, we have six counts, that all relate in some way or another to the attempt to obstruct justice. They're sort of called different things, withholding a document, false statements but they're really centered on the subpoena. So in May of last year, DOJ served a subpoena on Donald Trump's team saying, you have to hand us all of your classified, all of your sensitive all of your defense information.

Trump then brought in his lawyers, sent them to the storage room where there were certain documents. But others had been removed. But certain documents, the lawyers go through those documents, and they submit a certification, which says we did a diligent search. Here's the documents, we found, there were 38 documents. And that's it. Now, that ended up being very wrong, because a couple months later, there's a search warrant and the FBI finds over 100 more documents.

So that certification is the real fulcrum of the obstruction charges. And the theory is Donald Trump and Walt Nauta intentionally misled their lawyers, knowing that the lawyers would in turn intentionally mislead the FBI, and in turn the grand jury. And I should just add, Walt Nauta, the second guy here, he's not charged with the 31 document charges. He's only charged in the obstruction case, plus one other charge for false statements because he lied directly to the FBI.

TAPPER: So what kind of sentence could Trump face if convicted of all 37 charges?

HONIG: Yes. We need to be really careful when we look at maximum, statutory maximums in any context. Some of these charges have 20-year maxes, some have tens, some have five, if you add them all up at some wild number in the multiple hundreds. Nobody's getting hundreds of years in prison here. Nobody, without any prior criminal history is getting anything near the maximum sentences.

If you look at the federal sentencing guidelines, which are advisory, judges have to take them into account, but they're not binding. I ran a sort of rough calculation how this might come out if Trump gets convicted. It comes out to something in the eight to 12-year range. That's a lot. But again, judges can go below that. And what I -- what I do feel confident in saying is if Trump is convicted on the core of this indictment, this is a prison case.

The Manhattan case, I don't believe is likely knowing that New York law. That could well be a probation case, this one if there's a conviction, it's a prison case.

TAPPER: But since it's a extraordinary circumstance, it theoretically could even be house arrest, one would think.

HONIG: Absolutely. Judges can take into effect -- into account the person's age, all sorts of factors. It's possible, but just looking at the guidelines, I think prison is likely.

TAPPER: Andrew McCabe, we know from the documents Trump's legal team returned to the National Archives, we know include five confidential documents, 16 secret documents, 17 top secret documents. The average person out there has no idea what that means confidential versus secret versus top secret. But what does it generally tell you about the kind of information Trump is holding on to?

ANDREW MCCABE, FORMER FBI DEPUTY DIRECTOR: So that the statement that comes first to mind is top secret, right? Top secret or the most sensitive, the most highly protective documents we have. It's anything that if it were disclosed could cause grave damage to the national security. In addition to simply top secret documents, we know certainly from the Mar-a-Lago documents that were seized over from the search warrant, there were top secret documents that were also code- word protected.

Documents that were based on signals intelligence, human intelligence, those and some compartmented intelligence. So these are all not additional classifications, but handling restrictions. So once you've gotten to top secret, and it's even more concerning, more sensitive than your general run-of-the-mill top secret documents, documents are limited by who can see them how they're distributed, where they're held, and those are typically referred to as compartmented information.

That is quite simply the very heart of the nation's most important secrets on the national security side. It doesn't get any more serious than that.

TAPPER: Yes. And we've heard from both Republican former Attorney General Bill Barr who worked for Trump and former U.S. attorney and Governor Chris Christie about the fact that the government, the Justice Department, the FBI bent over backwards to try to just get these documents back.

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And I think it's very unlikely that he'd be charged if he had just complied, right?

MCCABE: That is absolutely the government's first goal in any -- what we call spill case and -- where you have classified material, National Defense material that's been improperly taken or stored. You want to get those things back. You need to recover the government's property and you need to make sure that sources and methods haven't been compromised.

TAPPER: Yes. We expect Donald Trump to leave his Doral Golf Club any minute and be driven to the Miami Courthouse as we wait for that. We're going to get some unique insights into Trump's defense from his former attorney, Tim Parlatore who played a key role in the classified documents investigation alongside Mr. Trump.

This is CNN Special Coverage of the Arrest and Arraignment of Donald John Trump.

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TAPPER: And we are waiting Donald Trump's departure from his Doral Golf Resort in Florida as he faces his second arrest and arraignment in a matter of weeks.

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This time he'll appear at a federal courthouse in Miami and he will answer 37 federal criminal charges stemming from the special counsel investigation into his alleged mishandling of classified documents. Joining us now to discuss is former Trump attorney Tim Parlatore who left the former president's legal team last month. Mr. Parlatore, good to see you. As always, thanks for joining us.

Once President Trump finalizes his legal team in Florida, the lawyers are going to be faced with a difficult task. How are they going to rebut these charges? What do you expect their legal strategy to be? Will they seek to delay this trial until after the election?

TIM PARLATORE, FORMER DONALD TRUMP ATTORNEY: Well, I can't speak for what they may or may not do with regard to delay. But when I look at these charges, you know, really you have to kind of separate the defense into several different phases. So the first phase of that is really going to be in the pre-trial motions phase. And I think that there's a lot of fruitful opportunities there to make motions to dismiss portions of this or all of it for prosecutorial misconduct, for improper disclosure of attorney-client communications, to challenge the sufficiency of the search warrant.

And also, to make technical arguments about the applicability of Presidential Records Act and things like that. And so, I think that they're going to have a pretty robust motion to dismiss. You're at the early stages, which, you know, truth be told has nothing to do with the guilt or innocence. These are legal arguments about the propriety of the investigation and the prosecution not getting to, you know, the ultimate issue of fact, which is something that would have to go before a jury.

TAPPER: We expect prosecutors to ask the former president to limit his communication with witnesses. Do you think that's fair? Do you think he will abide by it given that some of the people might still be in his orbit, some of them might be helping with his presidential campaign?

PARLATORE: Well, I think that it's -- it is a standard condition of release to not be talking with witnesses. You know, whether they are going to be a total, you know, no contact versus don't talk about the case is something that there is some wiggle room on. I think the idea of, you know, don't talk to Walt at all, when he is still working so closely with him is not something that the judge is going to order. But don't talk to Walt about the case. But for in codefendant meetings where your attorneys are present, I think that would be a standard condition of release.

TAPPER: We have reported that Trump has been advised by his attorneys to keep his public criticism of Special Counsel Jack Smith, the prosecutor to a minimum given that those statements can be used against him. He obviously is not abiding by that advice. Why do you think he keeps attacking the special counsel?

PARLATORE: Well, I think that, you know, being that he is a candidate for president, that does put them into a different category than most clients. So usually, my clients don't say anything publicly at all about their cases. They leave it to the lawyers to do all the talking. But this is a client unlike any other clients. So there is a little bit more things that he's going to want to say. And the reality is, you know, I look at this case, and I say, yes, there are significant problems in Jack Smith's office.

You know, there were significant problems with what they've done. And then just yesterday, they announced that they were adding a new prosecutor from the Florida office, somebody who has been previously sanctioned for illegally recording communications between an attorney and their clients. So it really does feed into a lot of his narrative about this whole, you know, improper prosecution that I would imagine, for campaign sake, he's probably going to talk about.

TAPPER: So do you anticipate that Walt Nauta, his aide, who is charged alongside with him who is accused of basically helping the president carry out these orders to hide the documents from the FBI? Do you think he's going to stay loyal to Trump? Do you think that there's a chance he will seek to cut a deal with prosecutors?

PARLATORE: You know, I can't speak for Walt. You know, I've seen him. I've never spoken to him. So I can't speak for that. You know, each individual criminal defendant. They all have to make their own decisions. And it's something that, you know, I always speak with clients about a decision whether to, you know, cut a deal, whether to plead guilty or whether go to trial is all about their individual appetite for risk.

And only they can make that decision because they're the ones that are going to have to live with it the rest of their lives. And so, even if I'm advising a client, look, you really need to take this deal. You really need to go to trial. It's their lives that are on the line and therefore it's their appetite for risk that will control.

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TAPPER: Yes. All right. Jim Parlatore. We're going --- Tim Parlatore, we're going to come back to you later in the show on the flip side of Donald Trump's arrest and arraignment. Thank you so much for answering our questions.

Right now, we could see Donald Trump's motorcade leave his golf club. At any moment, the former president is about to travel to Miami to face a federal magistrate judge and to face those 37 criminal charges against him. We're covering every moment of Trump's historic court appearance. Stay with us.

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TAPPER: We're continuing to watch the exits Donald Trump's Doral Golf Club in Florida. We expect the former president to leave any moment. We just saw a -- I'm not sure what the term is. A slew of motorcycles, a bevy of motorcycles, presumably on their way to the federal courthouse in Miami for Trump's arrest and arraignment on 37 criminal charges in the classified documents investigation. Anderson, let me throw it to you.

COOPER: Jake, thanks very much. We're going to continue to watch that. Expect to see the former president leaving his club any moment back here with the team in New York. Laura Coates, what should we expect today?

LAURA COATES, CNN CHIEF LEGAL ANALYST: This arraignment is going to be first of all, a such consequence. Noted, this is obviously a twice- indicted president. But this is a federal charge now. Dozens of federal charges. This is a codefendant case, you're going to see both Nauta and Trump together. They will likely be treated similarly, but not precisely the same. We're told there's not going to be a mug shot for Donald Trump, who will have electronic fingerprinting.

DNA will not be taken. We understand that at this point in time. However, Nauta does not have the same level of perhaps courtesy. As a former president, he is not. And so, I expect to see a conversation with the judge about a plea --

ANDERSON: We should point out. Nauta is the body man they said of the former president.

COATES: The body man. Yes. body. Well, to Jack Smith, he is the coconspirator in this case, right? The person who is -- had to move boxes to try to till them from the attorney Evan Corcoran's view as well in this case. And so, you're going to have the charges be read. It will be likely short and sweet. We're not going to have a full motion practice today where all evidentiary concerns are addressed or whether there'll be a severance motion between the two defendants. But you will see a great consequence.

The former president, as will relate afterwards, having to enter a plea in a federal indictment about conduct that he is doubled down, triple down, quadruple down on.

ANDERSON: And Karen Agnifilo, where does the case go from here? I mean, this could drag out for a long time.

KAREN FRIEDMAN AGNIFILO, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: It could. I mean, the paperwork that they filled out for the indictment Jack Smith indicated he, you know, this is a short trial. It's about three weeks long. And they're going to ask that this happen quickly, hopefully in the winter, and there's no reason why it couldn't. But it depends on the judge. And it depends on Trump. You know, we know that in the past his tactic is to delay because the longer he can delay this the closer you get to the general election and he doesn't want a trial.

The evidence here is quite, I think strong and damning. And so, he doesn't want this to go to trial. He wants to delay it.

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ANDERSON: In what way can he delay it?

AGNIFILO: So what, you know, what Laura was saying, though, there will be -- this will be adjourned for motions and I think there are certain motions, you know, and that's where the lawyers make arguments that they want certain things to happen. One in particular is the Classified Information Procedures Act. They call it CIPA because these are all classified documents.

There's going to have to be an assessment made with the intelligence agencies and a procedure put in place for federal court. How do you both maintain the defendant's right to a trial, public trial with documents and evidence as well -- and at the same time, protect classified information? That could take time for example. I'm sure he's going to want to relitigate what Beryl Howell did, it -- what -- the D.C. judge when this was in a D.C. Grand Jury judge -- former Chief Judge Beryl Howell made a ruling that his --

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