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CNN Live Event/Special

Reports Show Ex-Aide Says Trump Told Her To Lie About Boxes; Anger And Chaos Erupts On Hill, Mirroring U.S. View Of Politics; Union Chief Threatens To Expand Strike If Talks Slow; Ray Epps Charged In The January 6th Insurrection; Ukrainian President Faces Skepticism Of The U.S. Aid For War; Former Football Player Turned Community Mentor Sherman Williams Shares About His Champion For Change. Aired 10-11p ET

Aired September 19, 2023 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[22:00:03]

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN HOST: As to weigh in on the fashion fight, Fetterman said, quote, oh my God, the Republicans think I'm going to burst through the doors and start break-dancing on the floor in shorts. I don't think it's going to be a big issue. We'll keep you updated if that happens.

Thank you so much for joining us. CNN Primetime when Abby Phillip starts right now. Abby?

ABBY PHILLIP, CNN HOST: All right. We'll see how long that one lasts, Kaitlan. I don't know. Once they start to see those shorts, who knows what's going to happen. Thanks, Kaitlan.

And good evening, everyone. I'm Abby Phillip. We begin tonight with some breaking news and more possible evidence of witness tampering and obstruction by Donald Trump.

Now, according to reports, his former assistant told investigators that Trump told her to say that she didn't know anything about the boxes of classified documents over at Mar-Lago. But that was after he learned that the feds wanted to speak to her. The assistant also alleges that Trump would write to-do lists on classified papers that he would then give to her.

Now, tonight, a Trump spokesperson responded to that report, in part, blasting, quote, illegal leaking. But, remember, one of Trump's other aides has already flipped on him, telling investigators that Trump ordered him to delete tapes.

Let's discuss all of this with CNN Senior Political Analyst John Avlon and Attorney Temidayo Aganga-Williams. Temidayo, thanks for being here.

Look, you don't know anything about boxes. That's the quote. How damaging is that?

TEMIDAYO AGANGA-WILLIAMS, FORMER JAN. 6 COMMITTEE LAWYER: I think it's incredibly damaging. I mean, Molly Michaels, I think, is going to be a central critical witness to Jack Smith's case. One, it substantiates the charges, right? It's showing it's putting these documents in Trump's hands. That's where she's writing these to-do lists. That's critical.

Second point is going to be that obstruction count, as you're talking about, the obstruction point. And what that does is it puts the jury in the mind of the former president. That's always tough in a criminal case. How do you show knowledge and intent? That's what's required under the law. And with here, that's evidence that he knew what he was doing was wrong and he intended to act with that criminal intent. And that's going to be critical. And for any cover-up, that's what a jury is going to love to see.

That's what people understand. Everyone knows what it means to lie after the fact. It shows that you knew what you were doing was wrong.

PHILLIP: Yes. I mean, not for nothing. This is part of a pattern.

AGANGA-WILLIAMS: Yes.

PHILLIP: In a lot of ways. But perhaps the most significant at this moment is that people are coming forward with their stories. And the jury will decide whether it's the truth or not. But how significant is that, that people are deciding, you know what, I've got to tell what I know, and they're coming forward to the special counsel?

AGANGA-WILLIAMS: It's incredibly significant. And what I'll note here is that I think it's a point to talk about credibility. This is not some Democrat out of nowhere with political opposition to Trump. This is his personal assistant. She stuck by him through impeachment one, impeachment two, the January 6th attack. She was with him. And she's someone who's shown loyalty to him. And even at this point, she broke.

Why that's important is that a jury is going to look at that and say, why would she lie? She has no bias. She has no incentive to mislead here. So, that's going to be a critical point, a credibility that she has. And like a lot of the witnesses we had in our Jan. 6 investigation, they were Republicans. They were handpicked by the former president and they all said, this guy did something wrong.

JOHN AVLON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes. And I think that's the key point. That's something you all did very methodically in that January 6th hearings was Republicans who worked for Donald Trump, who were saying that this was wrong, that we had indications that bad things were happening. And that can help depolarize the debate around this.

It's not going to be successful with a third of the Republicans who believe Donald Trump no matter what he says or does. But the fact that now you're in people who are taking oaths who hadn't testified previously, who were in positions to know even after he left the White House, I think it's enormously significant for all the reasons you stated.

PHILLIP: One of the other interesting things about this, The New York Times is reporting that she told investigators that Trump would scribble notes to himself on documents, give them to her, she would turn them over and realize they got classified markings on them.

One of the interesting things about Trump, as you know well as a January 6th investigator, is that he doesn't often write things down. He's not emailing, he's not texting in the same way that other people would do in modern times. But how significant is that?

AGANGA-WILLIAMS: I think it's entirely -- as you know, it's going to be significant because it's putting it again -- that's going to be a piece of evidence that you're going to put on the big screen in front of the jury that you can say this is his words.

And you're right, we often don't get him going as far all the way. You could think about the call to the Georgia secretary of state. He talks in that mob boss-style language. You don't really get him saying that final act.

But with this writing here, you're going to have piece of evidence where he's saying, where he's putting his hand, his writing on a document and has to explain why he had that document and where he had it.

[22:05:00]

AVLON: We don't know what he wrote down and, in fact, there's some indication it may have been to-do list. What I think is significant is that when she flips it over, it's classified documents. And that just goes to speak to the absolute sense that the law doesn't apply to this person, the former president, that he is acting with such callousness towards classified information, that he's writing to-do lists on the back of them.

PHILLIP: Look, if there is a piece of evidence in a trial that is a black sharpie on the back of a classified document, that seems to me to be pretty powerful evidence visually for a jury to consider.

John and Temidayo, thank you both very much.

And now onto the chaos over on Capitol Hill. So, Pew asked Americans to describe the state of the United States politics in just one word, and I want you to listen to some of the most common responses. And I have to warn you here, some of these are not kid-friendly.

Divisive, chaos, corrupt, messy, crazy, bad, sad, dysfunctional, broken, disgusting, ridiculous, petty, partisan, embarrassing, hypocrisy, shit, hellish, crooked, sucks, fractured, circus, liars, joke, self-centered, crap, nasty, toxic, deceit, farcical, convoluted, rigged, combative, dumpster fire, aggressive, extreme, poor, disaster, disgrace, unproductive, and, well, effed. No repeats there. And only one response can be considered a positive adjective. And that was, quote, good.

Well, it's hard to argue with many of those descriptions since next week the government may shut down again. Republican hardliners in the House are refusing to agree to a plan to fund the government and they're demanding even deeper spending cuts. Here is how one moderate Republican is reacting to all of this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MIKE LAWLER (R-NY): This is not conservative Republicanism. This is stupidity.

These people can't define a win. They don't know how to take yes for an answer. It's a clown show.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: And joining me now is Republican Congressman Ryan Zinke. He's a member of the House Appropriations Committee. Congressman, thank you for joining us tonight.

First of all --

REP. RYAN ZINKE (R-MT): Great to be with you.

PHILLIP: -- is a government shutdown inevitable at this point?

ZINKE: Not inevitable. But here is what's going on. Uh, the House agreed, at least the Republican side agreed that we would go through regular order in this appropriation process and really with two goals. That's curb the spending and that's remove the wool, from our point of view. And we did that with the appropriation bills.

The defense bill is at 3 percent increase. It segregates out the Ukrainian support, which we deserve a discussion on what we're doing, goals, objectives of Ukraine, where the money is going. But this bill, there was just a handful that decided they would hold up the defense of our country.

PHILLIP: For those five who are against it, do you think that there's anything that could get them to a yes on a defense appropriations bill that raises spending levels?

ZINKE: Well, you look at, I think, a reasonable plan. We already have the V.A. appropriations bill in the bank. It's through the House. And that was due no harm to our veterans. We have the defense bill, which is plus three. But, remember, inflation was greater than that. And it segregates Ukraine. And, lastly, it really is the border bill. If border security, if you don't vote for these bills, and I don't know what your game plan is, because it's defense, our border, and our veterans, if you're going to hold it hostage.

And believe me, I was secretary when we went through the last period of shutdown. And E-5 might not get its paycheck, might not get a paycheck.

PHILLIP: Do you think that Republicans will end up being blamed for that? You've lived through this before. Will Republicans take the blame if there is a shutdown?

ZINKE: Well, I don't think the Republicans will, but certainly five. And remember that no Democrat voted for it either. PHILLIP: But Republicans are in charge right now.

ZINKE: Yes, but what isn't the bill that people object to?

PHILLIP: Your colleague, Congresswoman Nancy Mace, says that she thinks that without a deal with Democrats, a short-term funding bill just will not pass the House. Are you open to reaching across the aisle to avert a government shutdown?

ZINKE: I am always open to America first. And when it comes to the three bills, the three appropriation bills that I think are key to this, you have our veterans, we have the border, and we have defense.

[22:10:05]

But, look, if we can't agree on those three, I'm not sure what we can agree on. And, quite frankly, I think Americans want Congress to do the right thing and defend the country.

PHILLIP: You know, the far right of the Republican conference in the House, they seem to really constantly be in a state of revolt. Earlier this year, after Speaker McCarthy went through five 15 votes to become speaker, he said it showed him how to govern. Do you think that that is still the case?

ZINKE: Well, what we agreed to is this. We agreed that we would go to regular order, we'd have 12 appropriation bills, and the appropriation bills would meet the objective of curbing spending.

PHILLIP: Are you frustrated at all with your colleagues who are holding all of this up?

ZINKE: Well, there's, you know, I think frustrated, I would say more disappointed, because we need leadership. And, you know, in the case of the speaker, you know, who else? So, give me an alternative. And I don't think there is an alternative. It's a tough job. And I think McCarthy is doing what he said he would do.

PHILLIP: Speaker McCarthy has said that some of this is personal, that the opposition to what he's trying to do is personal. Do you think that that's the case? Are people just trying to make things harder for him?

ZINKE: Well, there's certainly some bad blood and bad feelings. And my hope is that you rise above your personal feelings and do what's in the interest of our country. That's our task. We have 218 votes to move something across. It's a small majority. But also you put bills forward that you know will pass and become the law. And now you have a football, you know, all your plays should be touchdowns. You need to make some yards and a lot of those yards, I think both sides of the aisle can agree that we can do better than what we're doing.

PHILLIP: Do you think some of your colleagues don't understand that, the incremental nature of some of the things that you have to do here?

ZINKE: Well, I can tell you, it's helpful being a former SEAL commander, because anyone can fight, but leaders fight and win. And I think those last two words are important. And winning is here, is make sure we honor the Constitution. I think we need to address our spending, because if we don't do that, the rest of us are not going to matter. And we need to defend our country, restore our border. So, these are elements that many members on both sides of the aisle came to Washington do. So, it's disappointing when there're distractions away from what I would consider the core purpose.

PHILLIP: All right. Congressman Ryan Zinke, we appreciate you joining us tonight. Thank you.

ZINKE: As always, and God bless.

PHILLIP: And up next, Donald Trump and Joe Biden fight to state claim as the biggest supporter of American unions. Michael Moore weighs in next.

Plus, he was the face of a conspiracy pushed by Fox News and other outlets, and now Ray Epps is charged in the January 6th insurrection. Geraldo Rivera joins me live.

And Volodymyr Zelensky arrives in the United States to find support for continuing to fund the Ukraine war is falling.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[22:16:56]

PHILLIP: And tonight the auto workers union is threatening to expand the strike if the big three car companies don't increase their offers. Also making headlines today, the White House says it's no longer sending a team to Michigan to monitor those talks and Donald Trump will skip the second Republican debate and instead speak to union members in Detroit.

Lots to talk about tonight with Michael Moore, the Oscar-winning documentary filmmaker and who is also a union supporter with deep family ties to the UAW.

Michael, as I just mentioned, Donald Trump says he's skipping this next debate. He's going to go over to Michigan. He's going to deliver a primetime speech in Detroit to an audience of union members. Is this a publicity stunt?

MICHAEL MOORE, OSCAR WINNING DOCUMENTARY FILMMAKER: Yes, and one that he's hoping that the news media will cooperate with him in the stunt. It's all it is. I mean, the working people of this country, I think, understand what Trump did during his four years for the working people, nothing. What he did do was pass one of the largest tax breaks for the rich ever. That's who benefit -- that's who benefited when Donald Trump was in the White House.

This thing him going to Detroit, wow, I mean, I just -- I don't know. It's -- I mean, maybe it proves he has a weird sense of humor because he's not going to get the board of the auto workers there.

PHILLIP: Well, I mean, historically Trump has had more support, at least among rank and file union members than perhaps union leadership This was definitely a factor in that 2016 election, especially. Could people be missing a hidden appeal here? I mean, he's not doing this because he thinks that there's nothing there.

MOORE: Yes. In 2016 he was a very popular T.V. show celebrity. I don't know if you ever saw it, The Apprentice. This is -- you know, it was an interesting and entertaining show and people voted for him and then they found out what they got from him, which is nothing. And, in fact, he destroyed the EPA. He packed the Supreme Court with people who are going to take the rights of women away, I mean, go on and on and on.

So, when people had a chance to vote again, they already didn't give him the popular vote the first time. The second time, Biden won in a mini landslide, 7 million votes. So, they didn't want Trump, they booted him out and that's probably what he's facing this time assuming he's, you know, not behind bars with the election happens.

PHILLIP: By the way, I should mention, one of the things that Trump and a lot of Republicans are trying to say here is that electric vehicles are the real problem and they're really pushing that argument as a reason for workers to hold out for more concessions because they believe they are being thrown under the bus in a, quote, you know, in their words, an electric vehicle agenda.

[22:20:01]

Do you think that there's a legitimate argument there?

MOORE: Absolutely not. First of all, there's a whole different discussion you can have about electric vehicles, as to what the problems are, but they're not the problems Trump's talking about. Trump is trying to, once again scare people, China, China is the enemy, et cetera, et cetera.

This has nothing to do -- this is a struggle, this fight, this strike right now, over the fact that, in 2009, the government under Barack Obama and Joe Biden asked the auto workers to please cut their pay, cut their benefits, cut their pensions, so that G.M. and Chrysler and Ford, but Ford didn't take the federal money, he asked that they cut their money and they promised the auto workers that if you help us, we will reward you for that. You will get this back.

It is now almost 15 years later. And any new hire in 2009, thanks to what the UAW at the time agreed to, was making $15.48 an hour. Any of those new hires who hired in '09 and any new hire that hired in last year, their paycheck this past Friday was $15.48 an hour, the same amount of money.

And here's the thing, Abby, you can only humiliate people for so long. And to humiliate the workers like this, they sacrificed so that these auto companies who drove themselves into the ground went bankrupt, they said, we will help, we will give all this up. And they said, thank you, we will make sure you get it back. Well, they'd never got it back. So, they had been hoodwinked. And they are not going to give up this fight.

And, in fact, I've got to say, the union has been very generous this week. They could have shut the whole thing down on Thursday night. They only shut down three factories as a little flare over the bow to let the carmakers know that they have the power to crush them. They will shut the whole thing down.

And not just 150,000 who -- of UAW workers who would go on strike, this will shut down thousands of companies, distributors, people who build parts for the auto industry, people who live in the towns around the auto industry. This will be catastrophic for the economy. And they are lucky that the UAW is still giving them a few more days to pony up.

PHILLIP: Can I ask you to just to respond to this from Republican Presidential Candidate Tim Scott. He was asked today by a voter about how he would respond to the strike.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TIM SCOTT (R-SC): Ronald Reagan gave us a great example and federal employees decided they were going to a strike. If you strike, you're fired, simple concept to me. So, they said that we could use that once again, absolutely.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: If you strike your fired. Your response?

MOORE: How un-American can you get to say something like that? I mean, we built the middle class in this country. We -- those of us from my family, the auto workers in my family, all the workers around this country, through their strikes, everybody got better pay. They got some time off. They got to go to the doctor. All these things that created the middle class and the next generation could go to college.

And to praise Ronald Reagan, who kicked off really the disaster we're still living with when he did completely destroy the air traffic controllers union in '81, it's -- why would -- I don't know. I'm so sorry that he said that because it's -- you know, it reminds me -- I and a bunch of others went to an annual meeting of the shareholders at General Motors many, many years ago.

And we step up into the microphone and we asked, we're just -- you know, do you consider yourselves an American company? And they wouldn't answer the question. Well, would you mind, would you mind anybody on the board of directors of G.M. who stand -- they're all on the stage. Would you mind standing with us right now and saying the Pledge of Allegiance to the United States of America? And, no, we will not do that. We are an international global corporation. Well, that's very honest. Thank you for making that clear.

The American people need to know that you don't really give a rats whatever about us. You care about your own pockets, you care about getting wealthier and wealthier and you're -- this year alone, you've already made over $21 billion in record profits, the three car companies.

So, this is all -- listen, the people who have had it, not just those who work in the car factories, the people who have not seen their wages go up at the rate that they should go up, that's why they can't handle the inflation that we had last year, this is --

[22:25:08]

PHILLIP: And that's why we're seeing those strikes not just here, but also in Hollywood and in other industries as well.

MOORE: At Chipotle.

PHILLIP: Yes, there's a lot that is brewing here in this economy.

Michael Moore, thank you so much for joining us tonight.

MOORE: Thank you so much. Thanks, Abby.

PHILLIP: And coming up next, another Fox conspiracy collapses. Why the man who is accused of being a mole is now being charged in the insurrection. Geraldo Rivera joins me right now live.

Plus, White House Press Secretary Karine Jean-Pierre joins me on set as the Ukrainian president gets a skeptical welcome tonight in the United States.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TUCKER CARLSON, FORMER FOX NEWS HOST: We do know from contemporaneous videotape that a mysterious figure called Ray Epps encouraged the crowd to go into the Capitol. For some reason, Epps has never been indicted for that.

He's never been charged, much less imprisoned in solitary confinement, like so many others. Why is that?

Well, let's just stop lying.

At this point, it's pretty obvious why that is.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[22:30:05]

PHILLIP: Ray Epps, he became the focus of right-wing conspiracies after the Capitol insurrection, with prominent figures you see there on the right pushing this idea that his presence at the Capitol that day, but lack of charges, was evidence that law enforcement had coerced Trump supporters into action.

But tonight, Epps is now officially facing a misdemeanor charge of disorderly or disruptive conduct on restricted grounds. Epps is expected to plead guilty at a hearing tomorrow afternoon. And joining me now is a journalist and former Fox anchor, Geraldo

Rivera. Geraldo, good to see you. So Epps was there because he was a Trump supporter. Will finally being charged now mean anything to the people who've been pushing these conspiracies?

GERALDO RIVERA, FORMER FOX NEWS HOST: I think that the ham-handed way the federal government has handled the Epps case will only exacerbate these conspiracy notions. Why in the world, Abby, you mentioned all the people who are in jail, you know, serving time, hundreds of them, many charged with felonies, some getting double-digit years, and he's only charged with a misdemeanor. Why only a misdemeanor? Why now? Why 2.5 years after this incident, why now?

PHILLIP: Well-- I mean --

RIVERA: It's almost as if the Department of Justice wanted to... Anyway, go ahead.

PHILLIP: Well, I mean, I think we just have to put out there that we will find out in a hearing this week the why of it all. And Ray Epps is going to plead guilty. These other January 6th defendants who are getting pretty lofty sentences are unrepentant. So there are some differences here, don't you think?

RIVERA: Well, if he pleads guilty, as expected to the misdemeanor tomorrow, we will not have any instrument by which we can find the truth about Ray Epps. I want to be very clear. I think that the responsibility for what happened on January 6th --

PHILLIP: What do you mean the truth about Ray Epps? What do you mean by that?

RIVERA: What happened on January 6th was because of Donald Trump. If Epps pleads guilty, there's no cross-examination. There's no probing discovery to find out, you know, what, if any, role he played, other than being the schmuck that he is, obviously. He was one of the first online to charge the Capitol cops outside the Capitol. I just think that, why wasn't he arrested a long time ago? Why now, and why only after he does interviews with the "New York Times," He does interviews with "60 Minutes."

You know, he's given his testimony to the - to the congressional January 6th hearing committee. Why only now did they get around to this guy's been in all everybody knows him now why do they arrest them now only now why not two years ago, 2.5 years ago, why not when it happened, particularly because he was so public.

PHILLIP: Ray Epps has sued Tucker Carlson for defamation for pushing these conspiracies that was when Tucker was still at Fox, but he says that Carlson and others quote, "turned on one of their own."

Look, you're asking all of these questions, you know, why now, why all of this and that, but you're implying a lot of stuff here. There's no evidence of anything except that this man was accused falsely of being a federal agent, and now he's actually been charged with a crime. So what are you implying exactly? RIVERA: I imply nothing other than to tell you that years ago, I was

the first one to air the Zapruder film of the John F. Kennedy assassination. It was 1975. I'm the father of conspiracy television. I have not been able to shake that.

This is another one of those cases where the federal government's ham- handed approach, I use that word again, or two words, ham-handed approach will only fuel conspiracy notions. This is a person who should have been arrested a very long time ago. I believe that responsibility for what happened on January 6th is primarily with Donald Trump and a lot of other people, his minions, who drank the Kool-Aid and they did something, some in character, like the Proud Boys and the Oath Keepers, others, who knows where they came from and why they decided to attack the United States Capitol.

This handling of this case, these are questions that must be answered. Otherwise, it will haunt us the way the Kennedy assassination conspiracies have haunted us.

PHILLIP: Well, look. I have to say that, you not agreeing with, or anybody not agreeing with how the federal government handled a particular case doesn't make it okay to just make things up. That's not how this works.

[22:35:08]

And so I think that at the end of the day, ultimately, at the end of the day, ultimately--

RIVERA: Why is he definitely only making up, though?

PHILLIP: Well, at the end of the day, he's being charged. And we'll find out what he's actually being charged and perhaps pleading guilty to. But to make up, to spin a whole yarn about how he worked for the federal government and enticed Trump supporters to attack the Capitol as a plant, is there's no evidence of that. And that's, I think, at the heart of what's going on in this story. But Geraldo, we'll have to leave it there. Thank you very much for joining us.

RIVERA: OK. I don't know how helpful I have been, but I -- well, again, Trump is unfit to be president because of January 6th.

PHILLIP: Thank you. Have a good night.

And President Biden is at the U.N. making an urgent plea for Ukraine. Yet a majority of Americans want the U.S. to cut off support. I will speak with the White House press secretary, Karine Jean-Pierre, who's here with us. Coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, U.S. PRESIDENT: Russia alone has the power to end this war immediately. And it's Russia alone that stands in the way of peace, together with our allies and partners around the world, will continue to stand with the brave people of Ukraine as they defend their sovereignty.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: That was President Biden at the United Nations, urging the world to stand firm in support of Ukraine's fight against Russia. But there are some signs here in the United States of deepening Republican divide on the issue of Ukraine.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOSH HAWLEY (R-MO): It's going to be, you know, hand out more requests for money. And my position on that's clear. My mind on that is made up.

REPORTER: But you don't want to --

HAWLEY: He should go to Europe.

[22:39:59]

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): The consequences of pulling the plug on Ukraine are enormous. It will lead to more war, not less.

REP. BYRON DONALDS (R-FL): There's no money in the House right now for Ukraine. There's just not. It's not there. I mean, look, it's not a good time for him to be here, quite frankly.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: Joining me now to discuss all of this and more is White House Press Secretary Karine Jean-Pierre. You heard it right there. Byron Donald saying there's no money in the house, but Volodymyr Zelenskyy is pretty committed to getting what he says Ukraine needs. I wanted to play for you what he said to our own Wolf Blitzer tonight about what he wants from Washington.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): Just understand, there are some people dying. And of course this will be, for us there will be a loss for us if we won't be able to get that type of weapon, which will protect us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: He's asking for long-range weapons. Will the Biden administration, are you confident that he'll be able to get those?

KARINE JEAN-PIERRE, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: So here's what I can say. You saw the president at the United General Assembly today, which is the world stage, the world stage, not just for talking clearly to the American people, but to the world about how we see the future of the American leadership, right? And our leadership in the last two years, in particular, what the president has been done been able to do is to say that we have to work together to deal with the pressing issues in front of us. And that's what he's done, right? Working with our allies, working with our partners. And we've been

able to do that in a way so that we are helping Ukraine. Let's not forget what is happening in Ukraine.

Russia did an unprovoked war, a brutal war on the people of Ukraine, where it is a sovereignty, their democracy is under attack and we have come together with the leadership of this president, bringing NATO together stronger than it's ever been before to make sure that they are able to fight bravely, continue to fight bravely on the ground to have that protection, look, or to be able to fight on the battlefield.

Look we believe that we will continue to see that strong bipartisanship support that we saw in Congress continuing, right, to make sure that Ukraine has all that they need the security assistance that they need to fight.

And so I can't speak to any specific thing that we may be able to provide clearly when those conversations happen, they will happen. But we want to make sure that we are there for them as long as it takes as they are fighting for their freedom. That's what they're doing Abby for their democracy.

PHILLIP: To that point, President Biden today, he gave a powerful denunciation of Russia. He put the responsibility, obviously, for the war on Russia, but a lot of the responsibility for how this war would end. And yet, just this past weekend, CNN's Fareed Zakaria spoke to Mark Milley. He's the outgoing chairman of the Joint Chiefs. And he said -- Milley said that the 200,000-plus troops that are from Russia in Ukraine, it's going to be, quote, "a high bar to get them out." Does President Biden believe that there is a way out of this war without Ukraine conceding?

JEAN-PIERRE: So a couple of things there that you just said. Look, I was in the hall today when the president was speaking on that world stage for UNGA. And when he talked about Russia and what they've done, this aggression and how we have to continue to be, to stand by Ukraine.

You heard the hall, right? The folks, the leaders in the hall clapping.

PHILLIP: It was a big applause.

JEAN-PIERRE: It was a big applause line. And I think that's important as well to note. Look, we've always said nothing about Ukraine, you know, nothing about Ukraine without Ukraine. We've always said that. It is something that they have to be part of that conversation. And we've been very, very clear about that.

What we have said is we will be there as long as it takes for the Ukrainian people to continue to fight bravely for their freedom, for their democracy. And I think that is really important. And that's what we saw the president do today on that world stage.

PHILLIP: Would President Biden be willing to be a part of a negotiation, to help broker a negotiation between Russia and Ukraine? Some Republican presidential candidates have suggested that they could play that role would President Biden?

JEAN-PIERRE: So, look, I know there's been plans put forth. We certainly have had conversations with the Ukrainian government. We are going to be very careful here, right? We're going to be very mindful that we cannot have those conversations without the Ukrainian people.

What we have promised is that to make sure that they have the security assistance that they need to continue to fight bravely, as we have seen them do. And look, again, this is a war that Russia started. This is an aggression that Russia started. This is an unprovoked war that Russia started.

And they could end this today, as we just saw from that clip that you all played from the president today. They could end this today. And so we're going to be there as long as it takes for the brave people of Ukraine to continue to fight.

[22:45:01]

PHILLIP: I want to get you on some domestic issues, but especially this autoworkers strike that is ongoing right now. President Biden had said on Friday that he was dispatching top aides to Michigan to be a part of that negotiation. That trip is now not happening. What happened?

JEAN-PIERRE: So it was Gene Sperling, one of the president's senior advisors, and also acting secretary Julie Su. They have been working and engaging with the parties for the past couple of weeks, helping in any way that we can. The president certainly believes it's collective bargaining. That's something that the workers should be able to move forward with, and they should be able to do that.

But it is up to them to come to a resolution to have these negotiate -- negotiation and so the president certainly believes that he is pro- union about the workers, about the UAW workers. And so there was a mutual decision, a mutual agreement that was made by all parties so that Gene and Julie Su were to not come down, go out this week just yet, to continue those conversations from Washington, D.C.

Again, a mutual decision. So we give them the space to continue to negotiate UAW and the big three, and so that's what we're doing.

PHILLIP: Was it a mistake for President Biden to say recently that he did not think that there would be a strike?

JEAN-PIERRE: Look, what the president has been very clear about is that he has been pro-union, a pro-union guy for a very long time, before he was president. And you see that. It shows in his record, and it even shows these last two years of what he's been able to do.

He believes in collective bargaining. He believes in the right to strike. And he believes that, it is up to these groups to come together and come and have this negotiation. We are helping it anyway we can. We are engaging it any way we can. But look, he believes that corporate profits, if they're going to have those companies are going to have to corporate profits, that UAW should have a -- also record contract, right? They're having these record profits. So that's what's important to the president. He is about the unions, he's always said there would be no middle class without the unions.

PHILLIP: Did, there's been reporting in "Politico" and in other outlets that there was a lot of negative feedback that came after he made those comments, including from Congresswoman Debbie Dingell. Is that accurate?

JEAN-PIERRE: Look, I'm not going to get into certainly any private conversations. Everybody has their opinion and that's, you know, and I think that's important to have. What I can speak to is the president's record when it comes to being a pro-union, what he has done these last two years, and he's going to continue to do that work. He's going to continue to say collective bargaining is important. He's going to continue to say he believes in the right to strike. And he's going to continue to say we have to make sure that when we talk about the unions, we talk about the middle class, both of them work together and it is important to have that.

PHILLIP: Any consideration of a trip down to Michigan?

JEAN-PIERRE: We're going to support and engage the best way that we can. And the president is going to continue to support UAW and also --

PHILLIP: But not to go himself.

JEAN-PIERRE: I'm just I don't have any things to share on any trip or anything like that but we support certainly the UAW workers and we believe that they should have a Record contract just like the companies have a record profit.

PHILLIP: Karine Jean-Pierre, thank you so much for joining us here in studio.

And coming up next for us, the disturbing sexual assault allegations against comedian Russell Brand now getting political that story ahead.

Plus how a football star went from the Super Bowl to prison. Kaitlan Collins has his story coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[22:52:03]

PHILLIP: This week we are bringing you a series called Champions for Change and we're spotlighting everyday people who are making huge differences in the world with new ideas and fresh approaches.

Now 20 years ago, Kaitlan Collins' champion riled up Alabama fans as a running back for the Crimson Tide and today Sherman Williams is now a beloved community mentor. And in between though, he took some hard lumps.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COLLINS (on-camera): What was it like growing up here? SHERMAN WILLIAMS, COMMUNITY MENTOR: Tough, rough, but it built

character.

Just wanted to try to just make it survive and get out.

I won a state championship right here in this stadium.

COLLINS (on-camera): You had a ton of records that you broke.

WILLIAMS: Yes.

COLLINS (on-camera): 3,000 yards?

WILLIAMS: In a single season.

COLLINS (on-camera): Football is everything in the South, especially in Alabama and especially in small towns like the one where I grew up and the one where Sherman grew up in Pritchard. And it's something the entire community bases itself around.

When he signed that scholarship to come to the University of Alabama, he became a football legend.

Must bring back a lot of memories to be in here.

WILLIAMS: Oh yeah. Championships and you know, tradition and everything that comes along with Alabama football.

UNKNOWN: Williams in the middle, touchdown!

COLLINS (on-camera): When you did that damage, you also had a dance that you did.

WILLIAMS: The Sherman Shake was -- was signature.

COLLINS (on-camera): Down set hut!

WILLIAMS: You got the shake, and then you got the quake to go with it.

COLLINS (on-camera): When were you drafted?

WILLIAMS: 1995 NFL draft drafted 46 overall pick for the Dallas Cowboys in the second round and went on my rookie year to win the Super Bowl.

COLLINS (on-camera): He was at the top of the world. And then he got cut from the team. And that's when he got into trouble.

Why were you arrested?

WILLIAMS: Distribution of conspiracy of marijuana.

COLLINS (on-camera): And what was your sentence?

WILLIAMS: My overall sentence was 15 years and eight months.

COLLINS (on-camera): While you were incarcerated, your mom passed away.

WILLIAMS: That was probably the most damaging thing about being incarcerated. It was also part of the motivation to move forward and be a part of the change.

COLLINS (on-camera): Sherman Williams was still serving his prison sentence when he had this idea for what eventually became the Palmer Williams Group. And together with David Palmer, who he played football with, they wanted to start something that could help disadvantaged youth.

WILLIAMS: When I was released from prison it wasn't about wins and losses that wasn't the measuring stick anymore. It was about how many people can you help.

MIKE MEADRY, COACH, PALMER WILLIAMS GROUP: Y'all ready for some football?

Set, let's go, go get them, go get them, go get them, go get them.

They mentor kids, they fund scholarships, so it's so much more than the sport that you're seeing today.

One, two, three, Cowboys! See y'all Monday.

[22:55:05]

AARON RANKIN, MENTEE, PALMER WILLIAMS GROUP: I do have little siblings. I'm going to be a good role model to them, and for him to be a good role model to me, I know how to do that.

WILLIAMS: Football was our initial sport, but now we have basketball, baseball, soccer, and a cheer program. We want to make sure that we aim to provide resource to the children at no cost because that was something that we didn't have an opportunity to do as children.

COLLINS (on-camera): And it's blossomed even beyond sports. It's also about financial literacy, about scholarship, about entrepreneurship.

Do you see yourself in those kids ever?

WILLIAMS: All the time. Maybe we could prevent some of those children from going through the similar situations as myself.

COLLINS (on-camera): After you were released from prison, you came back here to finish your degree.

UNKNOWN: Sherman C. Williams, Sr.

WILLIAMS: We try to motivate children to go to college. And what better example was it for me to have a college degree?

I think that the Palmer Williams group is more dear to me now than winning the Super Bowl. That is going to be the most significant purpose in my existence.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COLLINS (on-camera): And Abby, of course, it was so special to be able to go down to Alabama, my home state, to talk to Sherman and to talk to those who know him, his friends, his former teammates. It was really something special for our team to see how he has gone from these moments where that's typically how you would define success, winning a national championship at Alabama, getting that Super Bowl ring with the Dallas Cowboys.

But to hear Sherman there, as he said at the end, that this, he believes, will be more his life really just puts it into perspective the way he views success where he is now, especially after spending those years in prison. And obviously a big thanks to Sherman for sharing his story with us and for Bonnie Kapar producer for helping put that together in such a beautiful way that really did tell his story.

PHILLIP: It's a really powerful story. Thank you, Kaitlan, and be sure to tune in on Saturday at 8 p.m. Eastern for the Champions for Change one-hour special.

And that's it for me.

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