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Special Counsel Testifies On Biden Classified Docs Investigation; Rep. Swalwell: Will You Pledge Not To Accept Appointment From Trump?; Hur: Report Reflects Best Efforts To Summarize What The President Said; Rep. Jayapal: This Lengthy, Expensive Investigation Ended With No Charges; Hur: White House Had Draft Report Before It Was Made Public; Rep. Lieu Compares Biden Document Case With Allegations Against Trump; Rep. Tiffany: If Biden Were 60, Would You Prosecute Him?. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired March 12, 2024 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:00:00]

ROBERT HUR, FORMER SPECIAL COUNSEL, DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE: And as I said in my opening statement, I fell that I needed to show my work.

REP. ERIC SWALWELL (D-CA): And you want to be received as creditable?

HUR: That would be helpful and laudable, yes.

SWALWELL: A lot has changed since 2018 for the person who appointed you, former President Trump. Since you were appointed, he was impeached for leveraging 350 U.S. -- $350 million U.S. taxpayer dollars over Ukraine to get dirt on President Biden. He was then in peach the second time for inciting and insurrection.

He was charged for possessing classified documents and obstructing justice. He was charged for paying for the silence of a porn star. He was charged in Georgia for his role in January 6. He was charged in the District of Columbia for his role in January 6. He owes $400 million to the State of New York for defrauding the state through his taxes. And he has been judged a rapist.

You want to be perceived, understandably, as credible. And so, I want to first see if you will pledge to not accept an appointment from Donald Trump if he is elected again as president?

HUR: Congressman, I don't -- I am not here to testify ---

SWALWELL: Considering what I just laid out.

HUR: I'm here to talk about the report and the work that went into it.

SWALWELL: But you don't want to be associated with that guy again, do you?

HUR: Congressman, I'm not here to offer any opinions about what may or may not happen in the future. I'm here to talk about the work that went into the report, which I stand by. SWALWELL: There were no limits on you as to what you could charge President Biden by the attorney general, is that right?

HUR: The decisions that I made that are reflected in the report are my own.

SWALWELL: And you did not bring any charges. Is that correct?

HUR: Correct.

SWALWELL: There are no limits on John Durham and his investigation of the prior administration, when he was special counsel, is that right?

HUR: I don't believe I have the information required to answer the question about the Durham investigation.

SWALWELL: Well, he sat in the same chair that you're sitting in. He told us that he also investigated President Biden and President Obama and did not bring any charges. President Biden sat for an interview with you over two days for approximately 10 hours, is that right?

HUR: A little over five hours, Congressman.

SWALWELL: Over two days?

HUR: Correct.

SWALWELL: You know, that's in sharp contrast to a guy who did not sit for an interview. When the Mueller investigation took place. That was Donald Trump did not sit for an interview when he was impeached in this committee room by the judiciary committee.

Did not sit for an interview when the second impeachment occurred, and he was invited to sit for an interview for his role in January 6. And did not sit for an interview in the January 6, classified -- in the January 6 case for the classified documents case. Chairman also has not sat for an interview in his own subpoena. But Joe Biden has.

I now want to turn you to the transcript and day one page 47. You said to President Biden, you have appeared to have a photographic understanding and recall the House. Did you say that to President Biden?

HUR: Those words do appear on page 47 of the transcript.

SWALWELL: Photographic is what you said, is that right?

HUR: That word does appear on page 47 of the transcript.

SWALWELL: Never appeared in your report though, is that correct, the word photographic?

HUT: That does not appear in my report.

SWALWELL: I now want to show you and play a video of what is absolutely not photographic. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT AND 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: In the failing New York Times by an anonymous -- really an ominous, gutless coward. We are a nation that just recently heard that Saudi Arabia and Russia will repeat do. I hope they now go and take a look at the oranges or the oranges of the investigation. And I watch our police and our firemen down on 7/11, down the World Trade Center. And we did with Obama.

We won an election that everyone said couldn't be won. This is the very definition of totalitarianism. And let me begin by wishing you a beautiful, look. You remember this? You remember? God bless the United States. The windmills are driving them crazy. They're driving -- they're driving the whales I think a little batty. I went to Puerto Rico, and I met with the president of the ---

(END VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JIM JORDAN (R-OH): The gentleman yields back. The Chair now recognizes the gentleman from North Carolina.

REP. DAN BISHOP (R-NC): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Hur, I'm way down here into the dais. I think today, the Justice Department released the transcripts of the interviews with President Biden. Are you aware of that?

HUR: I understand that to be true. Yes.

BISHOP: Did you have any involvement in the decision or the timing of the release of the transcripts?

HUR: No, Congressman.

[12:05:00]

BISHOP: Did you make any recommendation about the release of the transcripts are being done or not?

HUR: I did not. That was above my paygrade.

BISHOP: I don't know why they are been released, so close to this hearing. But it sort of -- it impacts our ability to evaluate your report and ask you questions about this. But there's one point -- just as an illustration, on 221 of your report, you're describing, I think the Afghan pack or something like that about 2009. I think as the information came from, and you say -- is one reason not to prosecute, Mr. Biden says.

In addition, Mr. Biden told us in his interview that he does not recognize the marking confidential as a classification marking. To him the marking means the document should be held in confidence, but not necessarily that it is classified, and footnote 866 as a reference, and it refers to the Biden 10923 transcript at 24 and 25 and we have that now, but we haven't until this morning.

I just want to read from that exchange. This is on page 24, at line 15.

Mr. Krickbaum: So, this is a typewritten document. It's got a confidential. What appears to be a stamp at the top. And the top of the document indicates it's from the American -- AM embassy Kabul. It's dated what appears to me to be November 09. The only question I have for you about this, Mr. President, is the confidential marking. Do you recognize that to be a classification marking?

President Biden: No, I mean, confidential doesn't want to get around. It's not in a category. I don't think of code word top secret, that kind of thing. But I don't even know where it came from.

Mr. Krickbaum: Are you familiar with confidential as a level of classified information?

President Biden: Well, if I got a document that said confidential, it means -- it would mean that no one else could see it, but me and you give it -- or the people working on this issue.

Mr. Krickbaum: And are you aware that among certain categories of classified information, there is top secret, secret? And there's also a category of classified information called confidential. Is that something that you are aware of or not?

President Biden: I, yes. I was aware of it. I don't ever remember when I got any document that was confidential that was meant for me to read and or discuss with the people who sent me the memo. So -- and that's the -- and then it trails off.

So, as I read that -- those answers, they're equivocal. He at first says, he doesn't know what -- he recognized that to be a classification marking? He said, no. And then goes on to explain. But then Mr. Krickbaum came back and he said, are you aware of that among certain categories of classified information, there's also a category of classified information called confidential. And he says, I -- yes, I was aware of it.

So, Mr. Hur, just in that one instance, there seems to be a discrepancy between the conclusion in the report or the summary of the evidence in the report, and what the transcript says. Can you offer any guidance to this committee? Why you would put that summary in your report, as opposed to saying that he gave inconsistent answers. Or in fact, why didn't you nail down in the transcript, which was the right answer. He's given an answer that says, no. And then he says, yes. Why didn't you pursue it until you know?

HUR: Congressman, the report reflects our best efforts to summarize and characterize the evidence in the investigation, including the investigation received from the president himself during our interview of him. But as you point out, the transcripts of the president's interview over two days are now available to the committee for their inspection. And the members are able to draw their own conclusions based on the transcripts that are now available to them.

BISHOP: Well, with all -- and I appreciate your answer. And I certainly think -- things, you know, you can come up with some details that someone can disagree on. And it has the quality, I know of some -- of some cherry picking because I've just found something. But we've only had a little bit of time to look.

I don't think it serves this process well for the Justice Department to dump these transcripts into the public right now. If they're going to be released, they should have been released at a proper time. And I think I'll leave it at that. Mr. Chairman, I'll yield back.

JORDAN: The gentleman, yield. The gentleman, yield.

BISHOP: I will yield ---

JORDAN: Just real quick, Mr. Hur. Someone earlier said, you know, said something about changing the fact. She said I'm not going to change the facts. But let's keep the facts the same but change the subject. If you had the same facts, and the individual that you were investigating was 65 and had a good memory. Do you reach the same conclusion?

HUR: Congressman, as I responded earlier to a question along these lines. I am not here to entertain hypotheticals about facts or circumstances that may be different. What I did was assess the evidence and the facts that I obtained in this investigation and make a judgement based on this set of evidence.

JORDAN: Fair enough. The Chair now recognizes gentlelady from Washington for five minutes.

[12:10:00]

REP. PRAMILA JAYAPAL (D-WA): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Special Counsel Hur, thank you for being here. Thank you for your work. In your investigation, you reviewed more than 7 million documents and conducted 173 interviews of 147 witnesses, including President Biden, is that correct?

HUR: Yes, Congresswoman.

JAYAPAL: And your 15-month investigation cost several million dollars and resulted in a comprehensive 345-page report with several dozen pages of appendices. Is it correct that as it says in the first sentence of your executive summary that your investigation concluded with an assessment that quote, no criminal charges are warranted in this matter?

HUR: Correct.

JAYAPAL: So, this lengthy expensive and independent investigation resulted in a complete exoneration of President Joe Biden. For every document you discussed in your report, you found insufficient evidence that the president violated any laws about possession or retention of classified materials. The primary law that you analyze for potential prosecution was part of the Espionage Act 18 U.S.C. 793(e), which criminalizes willful retention or disclosure of National Defense Information. Is that correct? HUR: Congresswoman, that is one statute that we analyzed. I need to go back and make sure that I take note of the word that you use exoneration. That is not a word that ---

JAYAPAL: MR. Hur, I'm going to continue with my questions. I'm going to continue with my questions. I know that the term -- I know that the term ---

(CROSSTALK)

HUR: ---I untimely reached whether sufficient evidence existed such that the likely outcome ---

(CROSSTALK)

JAYAPAL: Mr. Hur, it's my time. Thank you. I know that the term willful retention has a particular legal meaning. And I want to make sure that that meaning is absolutely clear to the American people before we go any further. As you wrote in your report to prove as a matter of law, that the president quote, willfully retained any documents.

You would need to prove beyond a reasonable doubt, two elements. First, that the president knowingly retained or disclosed National Defense Information. And second, that he knew that this conduct was unlawful. Is that correct?

HUR: That's correct.

JAYAPAL: And to be very, very ---

HUR: Oh. I'm sorry, Congresswoman, that it was National Defense Information. That's an important third element.

JAYAPAL: OK. Thank you. To be very, very clear, you did not find sufficient evidence to prove either of those elements beyond a reasonable doubt to show that Mr. Biden willfully retained any of the classified national defense materials that were recovered during our investigation. Correct?

HUR: My conclusion was that the admissible evidence was not sufficient to make conviction at trial, a probable outcome

JAYAPAL: Not sufficient. Thank you. Let me ask you about a few specific examples, so the American people are clear. One side -- one set of documents was discovered by investigators in the president's Delaware home. His staff had assembled those documents into binders in 2014 to prepare him for an event with Charlie Rose. Some of the documents in those binders were marked classified.

You reviewed all of the facts surrounding the classified documents in those binders. And you determined and this is a quote from your report. These facts do not support a conclusion that Mr. Biden willfully retained the marked classified documents in this -- in these binders. Correct?

HUR: That language does appear in the report.

JAYAPAL: You also reviewed another set of classified documents from the president's home related to the Afghanistan troop surge in 2009. And you evaluated whether the president willfully retained such documents in his Delaware home, or a home that he rented in Virginia in 2017. In your report, you said that there was, quote, a shortage of evidence, end quote, for any wrongdoing, and quote, other innocent explanations for the documents that we cannot refute, end quote. Are those quotes, correct?

HUR: Congresswoman, if you have particular page sites for those quotations, I'd be happy to confirm that act.

JAYAPAL: Exactly. It's right up on the screen.

HUR: With respect to the two quotes that are on the screen, in addition to this shortage of evidence, there are other innocent explanations for documents we cannot refute. And we conclude the evidence is not sufficient to convict and we declined ---

JAYAPAL: I was just going to get to that. And you concluded that quote, the evidence is not sufficient to convict, and we declined to recommend prosecution, end quote. Those are your words in the report. Correct?

HUR: Those words appear in the report.

JAYAPAL: Thank you. President Biden's counsel discovered a different set of documents at the Penn Biden Center and voluntarily turned them over to the FBI. Those documents contain national security information. But you determined that you could not in fact prove that President Biden willfully retained those documents because, quote, the evidence suggests that the marked classified documents found at the Penn Biden Center were sent and kept there by mistake. Therefore, we decline -- we decline any criminal charges related to those documents, end quote. Correct?

HUR: The language we decline any criminal charges related to those documents does appear at page 311 of the report.

JAYAPAL: Thank you. You also reached a similar conclusion regarding the documents found in President Biden Senate papers at the University of Delaware. Quote, for these reasons, it is likely that the few classified documents found in Mr. Biden Senate papers at the University of Delaware were there by mistake. Correct?

HUR: That language does appear at page 325 of the report.

[12:15:00]

JAYAPAL: So, it seems to me that the crux of the report, the main story is that you found insufficient evidence to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that President Biden willfully retained any classified materials. That is the story of this report. And I yield back, Mr. Chairman.

JORDAN: Gentlelady yields back. The Gentlelady from Indiana is recognized.

REP. VICTORIA SPARTZ (R-IN): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I just thank you, special counsel for being here in this challenging time. And I want to tell you a few things that is interesting for me. You obviously could see that there is a mod, if there was a legacy. You obviously see that it was a willful retention of this documents.

But it's interesting for me that when you talk about sympathetic, well meaning, older man was poor -- elderly male was a poor memory. It seems like every -- you know, attorney would advise you to be sympathetic and be well meaning. And it seems like the whole FBI needs to do a based. And my appearance here, I need to do check on amnesia because everyone says doesn't recall. So, it seems to me that it might have been something way more.

In his recollection, there's a typical, I don't recall, because that's what ever seems like -- that's I've learned that here. So, is there a something more than that that just -- I don't recall something for you to actually decide? Because it seems that this is the core of the whole investigation. Why didn't you pursue further the charges?

HUR: Congresswoman, my judgment as to how a jury would likely perceive and receive and consider evidence relating to -- relating to all the evidence that we put in both by both the government and the defense at trial. It was based on a number of different sources from documents, including various recordings, some of them from the 2016, 2017 timeframe. Some from our interview, the president in October of 2023.

I think what you're asking about specifically is how the president presented himself during his interview in October of last year. And of course, I did take into account not just the words from the cold record of the transcript, but the entire manner in living color in real time of how the president presented himself during his interview.

SPARTZ: I hopefully he did in a smart -- you and all of us. But before I yield, I just wanted to actually just comment on Samsung (Ph). You know, Mr. Raskin mentioned about, you know, us not remembering communism. I grew up under communism and I have a very good recollection what it is. And unfortunately, Tiryns (Ph) eye on the rise in the March, which you sad. Unfortunately, they've been enrolled in by President Obama, now by President Biden too.

And unfortunately, our government and Department of Justice is really now resembles, you know, our tyrannical government. It's sad for me to see that. But I'm going -- and was it really double standard what we have there. But I'm going to yield to Chairman Jordan (Inaudible) of my time.

JORDAN: Thank you, Gentlelady, for yielding. Mr. Hur, during your one- year investigation, did you have communications with the White House and the White House counsel in particular?

HUR: Yes.

JORDAN: I think you had -- like, I got five letters that they -- and they communicated with you regarding your investigation. Is that accurate?

HUR: We received a number of letters from White House counsel's office and as well as the president's personal counsel.

JORDAN: Right. They're either the special counsel or personal counsel. I see that who signed the letters. And did the White House get the report before the report was made public?

HUR: We did provide a draft of the report to the White House counsel's office and members of the president's personal counsel team for the review.

JORDAN: I understand. And did the White House -- once they got the report before it went public, did the White House tried to weigh in with your investigation on elements of that report, and frankly, get the report change?

HUR: They did request certain edits and changes to the draft report.

JORDAN: Yeah. I see that in the February 5, letter? Did they only correspond with you?

HUR: I'm sorry, Congressman. Are you asking if they -- if they correspond with anyone else in my team?

JORDAN: Once you gave the report to the White House, they saw changes. I have one letter here that dressed to you on February 5. And they said we're pleased that after more of your -- of investigating, you've determined, you know, they respond to the report. And then they asked -- they disagree with your -- they asked for you to change some of the things you had in your report namely. The fact that the president's memory was not very good. You remember that?

HUR: Yes, sir.

JORDAN: OK. But I also have two other letters, one on February 7 to Merrick Garland, where they raised the same concern. And then on February 12, where they go to the DAG, Bradley Weinheimer. Are you familiar with those?

HUR: I am familiar with those letters. Bradley Weinheimer is an assistant or associate deputy attorney general.

JORDAN: Right. Associate DAG, the ADAG, right.

HUR: Yes.

JORDAN: And Merrick Garland, of course is the attorney general. So, you're familiar with the fact that they went over your head?

HUR: They were certainly entitled to write whatever letters they wished to Mr. Weinheimer or and to the attorney general.

JORDAN: I just find that interesting. The White House is -- they're communicating with you throughout this one-year investigation, and then the White House says, oh, we're going to -- we're going to go to the -- we're going to go to the principal's office. And we're going to -- we're going to talk about Mr. Hur's report. You find that interesting?

HUR: As I said, they were free to correspond with whomever in the federal government they wish to correspond with. I did engage in numerous communications with them during the course of the investigation. And as is reflected in the special counsel regulations, the attorney general did provide oversight of my investigation.

[12:20:00]

JORDAN: Understand. I think the gentlelady for yielding and yield back. The Chair now recognizes this gentleman from California for five minutes.

REP. TED LIEU (D-CA): Thank you, Chairman Jordan. I want to first say that the House Judiciary Committee is responsible for helping to enforce the rule of law. Unfortunately, the actions of this chairman and ignoring a bipartisan congressional subpoena, have damage the ability this committee to get information from witnesses and damage the rule of law.

Now, Mr. Hur, thank you for being here today. Thank you for sharing your compelling immigrant story. That just goes to highlight how America is a nation of immigrants. I'm going to ask you a series of questions. Yes or no questions. They are not trick questions. They're simply designed to highlight what you already found in your report, which is that there are, quote, material distinctions, end quote, between President Biden's case and Mr. Trump's case. So, here's my first question. In your investigation, that you find that President Biden directed his lawyer to lie to the FBI.

HUR: We identified no such evidence.

LIEU: Did you find that President Biden directed his lawyer to destroy classified documents?

HUR: No.

LIEU: Did you find that President Biden directed his personal assistant to move boxes of documents to hide them from the FBI?

HUR: No.

LIEU: Did you find that President Biden directed his personal assistant to delete security camera footage after the FBI asked for that footage?

HUR: No

LIEU: Did you find that President Biden showed a classified map related to an ongoing military operation to a campaign aide who did not have clearance?

HUR: No.

LIEU: Did you find that President Biden engaged in a conspiracy to obstruct justice?

HUR: No.

LIEU: Did you find that President Biden engaged in a scheme to conceal?

HUR: No.

LIEU: Each of the activities I just laid out, describe what Donald Trump did in his willful mishandling classified information, his criminal efforts to deceive the FBI and contrast President Biden handed over documents without delay and complied fully with investigators. Mr. Hur, you report -- you write that quote, according to indictment, Trump not only refused to return the documents for many months, but he also obstructed justice by enlisting others his story evidence and then to lie about it, end quote. He also say that, if proven, these would be, quote, serious aggravating facts, end quote. Do you still stand by your analysis?

HUR: I do.

LIEU: I have a few more questions as well. In your investigation, did you find that President Biden set up a shell company and covertly paid $130,000 in hush money to adult porn star?

HUR: No.

LIEU: Did you find that President Biden directed his lawyer to pay $150,000 in hush money to a former Playboy model?

HUR: No.

LIEU: In your investigations, you find that President Biden called the Georgia secretary of state to demand that he quote, find the 11,780 votes.

HUR: No.

LIEU: Did you find that President Biden devised a scheme to organize a slate of fake electors to undermine a free and fair election?

HUR: No.

LIEU: Did you find that leading up to January 6, 2021, President Biden urged his supporters to travel with D.C. and to storm the Capitol.

HUR: No.

LIEU: Thank you. Each of these activities I laid out describe what Donald Trump did. His efforts to bully election officials overturn the results of the election and deceive the American people. That is why Donald Trump has been indicted. And not just one, not just two, not just three, but four criminal cases. I yield back.

JORDAN: Gentleman yields back. The gentleman from Wisconsin is recognized for five minutes. REP. TOM TIFFANY (R-WI): I just want to go to a little repetition, Mr. Hur, in regards to the chairman's questions from a few minutes ago. So, is it correct on that February 5th letter that was sent to you asking you to change references to the president's poor memory. Wasn't there a request by the White House to do that?

HUR: There was a request. Yes.

TIFFANY: And, Mr. Chairman, I think the record should show that the gentleman from Maryland earlier said that that was not -- that was not the case. I think he said, nor did he seek to redact a single word of Hur's report. Obviously, Mr. Hur is telling us differently here. And didn't the White House, then go to the attorney general himself and say that he would like to see changes to the references in regards to the president's memory.

HUR: The White House counsel didn't send such a letter.

TIFFANY: So, if this president was 60 years old rather than 80 years old, would you prosecute him?

HUR: Congressman, as I've said before, I cannot engage in hypotheticals. I address the facts. And the evidence as I found that ---

TIFFANY: So, there was an 80-year-old grandma that came to Washington D.C. a few years ago did not commit a violent crime -- committed a crime, but not committed violent crime. And she was fully prosecuted. Doesn't that seem like it's a dual system of justice where the president is above the law?

[12:25:00]

HUR: Congressman, I don't know the facts on the details of this other case they are referencing with this other person.

TIFFANY: You say that the president is unlikely to reoffend in the future. I believe that was a quote that you put in report. Is that correct?

HUR: I believe that's in chapter 13.

TIFFANY: How so -- how is he unlikely to reoffend in the future? How do you come to that judgment?

HUR: As I say, on page 254, any deterrent effect of prosecution would likely be slight. We are not concerned with specific deterrence. As we see little risk, he will reoffend.

TIFFANY: Well, isn't it because he's now the president and he has almost unlimited authority to release documents. Isn't that correct? I mean, as a vice president, he didn't have that authority. Now that he's president, isn't it easy to say that that he's unlikely to reoffend because he's got almost unlimited authority to release these documents? HUR: Well, that statement was based on -- that assessment of the likeliness of reoffending from this particular person, President Biden, is based on a number of factors, including the authority that he has now with respect to classified materials, as well as the experience that he's had going through a special counsel investigation.

TIFFANY: Yeah. But looking back at 2011, there were multiple instances where he was informed by his staff, and they ratcheted it up to where there was a formal process. You're saying he's learned from that when he's proven that he hasn't. I mean, that goes all the way back to 2011.

HUR: Congressman, what I'm saying in the report that page 254 is ---

TIFFANY: He's a repeat offender, Mr. Hur. Isn't he?

HUR: What I say ----

TIFFANY: Let me move on to -- I'll move on to something else here. You said he had strong motivations to ignore the proper procedures for safeguarding classified information. And he provided raw material to his ghostwriter that would be of interest to prospective readers and buyers of his book. And I think you said something about -- he viewed himself as a historic figure. Correct?

HUR: I believe those words do all appear on the report.

TIFFANY: Yeah. And he was also doing this for business purposes that there may be people that would want to buy his book?

HUR: Towards the end of his vice presidency, Mr. Biden had resolved to write a book and began work on it towards the end of his vice presidency.

TIFFANY: You know, I think, Mr. Chairman, this is really consistent with the Biden family. When you look at them in trying to enrich themselves. I mean, you're familiar with the work that the oversight committee has done over the last year, right?

HUR: I have read some reports of it.

TIFFANY: I mean, 20 phone calls that were made to his son that he denied in 2019. 20 shell companies that were created over $20 million. I mean, doesn't it appear there's a pattern here that -- where I come from, they almost call it money grubbing.

HUR: Congressman, what I'm here to testify about today is the work that I conducted in this investigation and in this report.

TIFFANY: So, I want to thank you for the work that you did as far as you could. But unfortunately, you are part of the Praetorian Guard that guards the swamp out here in Washington D.C., protecting the elites. And Joe Biden is part of that company of the elites. And you see it in the things that the department justice has not acted on, Mr. Chairman. I mean, you look at the president's son who does not have to answer for lying on his Form 4473 in regards to throwing a way a weapon. You see it with the Department of Justice fends off the IRS when the whistleblowers come with this information. Now we see it once again, where a president believes he is above the law. And there is no doubt that this president does believe he's above the law. I yield back. Mr. Chairman.

JORDAN: Gentleman yields back. The gentleman from California is recognized.

REP. LOU CORREA (D-CA): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Hur, welcome. I also concur. And let me echo what's already been said by my colleagues that your personal story of being an immigrant, your family immigrants to this country. The way you've contributed to the greatness of this country shows why America is great. A great immigrant story. Thank you for being here, sir.

First question to you is, you're a Republican.

HUR: I am, sir.

CORREA: Does that stop you from a thorough and fair investigation?

HUR: I certainly hope not. And I know not.

CORREA: This story is really proof of the old saying that the cover up is worse than the crime. President Trump and President Biden handled their classified materials differently. Wouldn't you say?

HUR: My report includes an assessment of the alleged facts in the pending indictment of former President Trump and a comparison to the facts that we found in this case,

CORREA: But clearly, the handling of these documents was night and day. Correct?

HUR: Congressman, do you have a specific aspect of the handling of the documents that you have in mind?

CORREA: Well, you know, President Trump intentionally took classified materials and obstructed justice to ensure that those materials wouldn't be taken from him, and he refused to work with law enforcement. Is that correct?

HUR: My report reflects no findings of obstructive conduct on the part of ---

CORREA: Let me ask you another question. President Trump has been indicted in the U.S. District Court of Southern Florida on 40 counts related to his position of classified documents. Is that correct?

HUR: I don't know the exact number of counts, but I know that an indictment is pending in that district.

[12:30:00]