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CNN Live Event/Special

Now, Court Underway for Trump Criminal Trial; Judge Denies Motion for Recusal; Now, Judge Discussing Trial Schedule, Upcoming Holidays. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired April 15, 2024 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[10:00:00]

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome to CNN's special coverage. I'm Jake Tapper. And you're looking live inside the Manhattan courthouse right now. Let's bring up those pictures where the judge has just entered the courtroom, and Donald Trump is about to make history the first former president in the United States to ever face a criminal trial.

And he's second, we expect, jury selection to start, what's called voir dire. And we just got our first look at the former president inside that courtroom, a still photograph. Cameras are not allowed in general.

There he is facing 34 counts of falsifying business records, allegedly part of a scheme to keep adult film star and director Stormy Daniels from speaking out about their alleged sexual interlude ahead of the 2016 election.

CNN's Kaitlan Collins and Paula Reid are outside the courthouse for us right now.

Kaitlan, the prosecution and the defense are about to start this process of choosing 12 jurors and 6 alternates who will ultimately decide if Mr. Trump is guilty of these crimes.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, Jake. But before they get there, you know, we saw a flurry of efforts by the Trump team to delay this trial. One thing that they have tried repeatedly to do is going after the judge himself, asking Judge Juan Merchan to recuse himself, something they've already tried last year, but they are now trying again.

And we are told by our reporters inside the room that is the first order of business that the judge is taking up here. And we have heard from many legal experts, Paula and Kristen, and as we've been looking at this, you know, it has been this effort to get him to recuse himself, but that seems virtually like it's not going to happen.

PAULA REID, CNN CHIEF LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: No, that seems highly unlikely. And as Jake noted, there are no cameras in the courtroom so we're relying on our colleagues inside for updates. And they have announced that Judge Juan Merchan, he is in the courtroom and the trial is now underway.

I want to note someone else who is also in the courtroom, that is the district attorney, Alvin Bragg. This is a big test for him. He is a Democrat. He is the elected district attorney. And he campaigned on a promise that he was in the right position to prosecute Trump.

He could be the first prosecutor to oversee, and perhaps the only, if he's re-elected, to oversee the prosecution of Trump.

COLLINS: And that really matters. Of course, we've heard Trump saying he's focused on Alvin Bragg almost as singularly as he has, the judge here, in the sense of how he's going to be conducting this trial. Alvin Bragg, though, we haven't heard from as much. Obviously, he (INAUDIBLE) direct role in this.

REID: Yes. And a lot of that is by design. I think that we're going to see Alvin Brad be more like Jack Smith than Letitia James. It's a little surprising even that he's here today. He doesn't have to be. We don't expect that he's going to attend every day of this trial.

But we will not be seeing him holding press conferences going in and out of court, like we did with Letitia James. So, we can expect throughout this process he is going to keep pretty quiet. He has declined to answer most questions about this trial, and that is the way most prosecutors usually (INAUDIBLE).

COLLINS: And just -- and I think it's important to note that scene and what we are seeing out here. I mean, we have -- the three of us have spent a lot of time outside this courthouse, Kristen. And I mean, there are supporters of the former president who have gathered here. We've seen a lot of far right figures that are here that have been kind of taking up his defense, whether it's going after the judge, finding the Twitter account that they claimed was his daughters, that the court had to come out and say was not. They have been such a part of this as well.

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: They have. And, I mean, look, right now we're really experiencing the media circuit. This is exactly what Donald Trump and his team want. You have flags flying, that's a Trump 2024. You have crowds gathering. You have a giant truck driving by blasting music.

I mean, this is exactly the kind of scene-making that Trump's team needs, because, remember, we are in the middle of a campaign season, and he -- this is taking (INAUDIBLE).

[10:05:00]

So, what he needs is a media service (INAUDIBLE) to the cameras, seeing this kind of display for him so that he can continue to campaign ahead of November.

COLLINS: Yes. And, of course, Jake, what is different about all of this is that Trump's presence in the courtroom is required. He could obviously ask for a waiver. He is not choosing to do so and he is expected to be here every day. His team is having to plan around that and decide where could they have rallies or events nearby. What does that look like? Obviously, he has his own plane, but it is certainly a constraining factor on the presumptive Republican nominee as he is going to be spending a lot of time in this courthouse behind me.

TAPPER: All right. Kaitlan Collins on the streets of Manhattan, as you can hear behind her. The court clerk has just opened proceedings, we are told, and I'm back here with my panel.

Laura Coates, take us inside that room. What is it like? You're a former prosecutor. What is it like for the various parties as they prepare for this moment?

LAURA COATES, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF LEGAL ANALYST: Universally, it's nerve-wracking to figure out what's going to happen next. You've prepared for your case in a very, very strategic way. The one thing, the one wild card now are 12 jurors to figure out what they're going to do, who they're going to be, what they're going to present, and how they're going to be impartial or not.

If you're the prosecutor, you know, the second those jurors come in the room, it is performance mode. They're going to walk in. They're going to look at you. What does your desk look like? What is your demeanor like? Are you confident? Are you disorganized? Are you smirking in some way? Whatever you're doing, you are now representative of the people of the jurisdiction, and you are now on full display.

And so you have to really be present and aware of how you present to a jury, because you're looking at each one of them, but looking at you wondering, do I trust this person? Can this person persuade me?

And in turn, you're going to be taking feverish notes, trying to figure out what about a juror in particular might be off-putting. Has somebody leaned in towards you, or are they giving you an evil glare? Are they smirking at you? How are they engaging with the court? All of these things begin to tell you about the psychology of a human being, but more than anything, you have to be cool, calm, and collected to know that I am our presenter of the jurisdiction, here is the case, and I can win.

TAPPER: So, Karen, I keep hearing the name, Sandoval bandied about, Sandoval. What is this?

KAREN FRIEDMAN AGNIFILO, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: That's the name of the case. That's where it comes from. And it's a little mini hearing that happens before every trial, where the people are required to inform the defense and request permission of the judge of prior bad acts that they want to be able to potentially ask Donald Trump, should he take the stand?

So, in advance, the judge is going to weigh the probative value versus the prejudicial effect of any prior bad acts. So, it happens in every case. So, for example, you might have a defendant who has a very long criminal history. And the judge is not going to want a jury to think that the defendant has a propensity to do things just because he has a criminal history, because that doesn't mean he did it in this case. So, the judge weighs the probative value against the prejudicial effect.

But this you'll get a window into what are the things that the prosecution wants to ask Donald Trump if he takes the stand, and then the judge will rule which ones he's going to allow and in which ones he's not. It could be anything from his open cases. It could be anything from lies that he has told because, obviously, credibility is always an issue when you are testifying in court. It could be about January 6th. We'll see what they talk about.

TAPPER: We'll see what, and if they bring it up. Hold on one second. I want to go to Paula Reid right now from outside the courtroom who has an update. Paula?

REID: And, again, Jake, we are reading live updates from our colleagues who are inside the court because there are no cameras. And right now, the judge is taking up this issue of his recusal.

Now, the defense team has pushed for the judge to recuse himself based on the work, the political work that his daughter is involved in.

Now, there are two motions to have him recused. One is before the judge. Another one is before the court of appeals.

Now, the judge says he will issue a decision from the bench on the motion that is before him.

Now, we're told Trump is sitting still. He is directly facing the judge during this proceeding.

Now, right now, Merchan is going over the allegations that Trump has made about statements that the judge's daughter has made on a podcast about her father's view that politicians should not use Twitter.

Now, of course, that could seem to some people, right, to be referring to Trump. But, so far, they're just going through these different allegations, going through the motions. The judge said that it's the opinion of the court that Trump is using, quote, a series of inferences, innuendos and unsupported speculation to make his claims for recusal.

So, not looking good that he is going to succeed on this motion, and then he indeed denied the motion, he denied the motion for recusal.

Now, again, Trump appears to be very attentive. Our colleagues say he is looking straight ahead at a screen. Our colleagues also report that he's biting his bottom lip as the judge rejects his motion for recusal.

[10:10:02]

Now, this is just another in a series of efforts the Trump team has attempted to either get the judge recused, get the case dismissed or at least delayed.

TAPPER: All right. Paula, thank you so much for that update.

Elie Honig, let's talk about this moment for these players. You have Alvin Bragg, the district attorney. You have Donald Trump, the defendant, and his criminal defense team. Obviously, this is a legal case of import.

But beyond that, all of these, whatever your political views, all of them are human beings. All of them are going through the emotions that come with a case like this. What are they feeling? What are they experiencing?

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: This is a heart-pounding, sweaty-palms moment for everyone in that courtroom, no matter who you are.

If you're the prosecutor, you have been living this case, sleeping, eating, breathing it for two years now. This is the moment of truth. Even if you've tried 30, 50 cases, this is the biggest one any of them will ever try.

If you're the defendant, Donald Trump, your liberty is potentially at stake. Your political future will be impacted by this.

If you're the defense lawyer, this is the biggest case you'll ever be a part of.

The jurors, some of them are probably terrified of being put on that jury. Some of them may be desperate to get on.

Even the judge, judge has been on the bench for 17 years. I promise you, the first line of his obituary will be about this case, and he knows that.

So everyone in this courtroom, I don't care how experienced they are, they are feeling it right now. It's a moment where your heart's pounding through your chest. We've never seen anything like this. None of them has ever seen anything like this.

TAPPER: And, obviously, the witnesses in this case, I'm sure, are feeling the same thing. We have Michael Cohen, obviously, who is a big part of this because, allegedly, Donald Trump had him pay off Stormy Daniels, and then we have Stormy Daniels, herself, will be testifying.

Beyond that, there is another witness, somebody who political junkies might know her name and her face, Hope Hicks, who worked in the White House. And we know, from Michael Cohen's 2019 trial, Jamie Gangel, that she was very involved in this, at least according to testimony, according to the FBI.

What could Hope Hicks testify about if she is called as a witness?

JAMIE GANGEL, CNN SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT: So, let's just remind everyone that October was a bad month for the Trump campaign.

TAPPER: 2016.

GANGEL: 2016. This was October 7th. The Access Hollywood tape becomes public. So, they are now scrambling.

What we don't know is exactly what happened on these phone calls. We have reporting and the court documents show and FBI interviews that there are a number of phone calls going on, that Michael Cohen is calling Hope Hicks. And then maybe Trump becomes part of that call or the call is transferred.

For the record, Hope Hicks has said that she did not know about Stormy Daniels until November, and she has said that repeatedly. But she certainly was involved. She was inner circle. She was very close to Trump personally. So, there are going to be a lot of questions about did she know more than we've learned thus far.

TAPPER: Right. And, Laura Coates, because the prosecution's theory of the case, and, again, these are allegations, these are not established facts, the prosecution's theory of the case is that Michael Cohen made these payments to Stormy Daniels to keep her quiet, $130,000, I believe, and that then there was a falsification of putting Michael Cohen on retainer so as to pay Michael Cohen back. That's the prosecution theory. Hope Hicks might have an insight into that if it were true?

COATES: She could very well, based on the campaign as to why they were doing it and why they were not.

Also important to note here is on jury selection day, these jurors are going to be very nervous. The reason you have this gag order happening right now is because they well know that their faces may not be on television, their names might not be publicly revealed, but you have somebody who has quite the pulpit and the bully pulpit on social media to try to either threaten or intimidate or perhaps even interfere with their feelings of safety.

And so this judge is going to be very cognizant to all the witnesses who might be testifying. But the jurors will be in that courtroom today, they have on their brains and the weight of the world on their own shoulders about how they'll be treated through the course of this entire thing.

TAPPER: All right. The first criminal trial of a former president of the United States is now underway. We're getting live updates from inside the courtroom as Donald Trump's hush money cover-up trial gets underway. Those updates are next.

Plus, we're also going to take a deep dive into how exactly this jury process, jury selection process, will play out in just minutes, what's called a voir dire, where hundreds of people will be whittled down with just 12.

Stay with us.

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COLLINS: Welcome back to CNN's special coverage of Donald Trump's first criminal trial.

The former president is inside the courtroom behind me right now, where the judge has just rejected an effort by the Trump team to get him off the case, to have the judge recuse himself.

While claimed that they have been making alleging bias, the judge here saying that they have found no basis for that, as we are now getting new details on the discussions that are happening right now behind closed doors.

I have CNN's Paula Reid and Kristen Holmes here with me. And, Paula, one thing that may seem small but it is actually significant here is the schedule itself. And what it's going to look like, when they're going to be believed to being in court.

And previously, we thought Wednesdays were kind of off limits.

[10:20:00]

That was certainly the Trump team's legal, the legal team's understanding. But right now the judge seems to be saying that that actually depends on the pace of the trial, the momentum of it, of when they're actually going to be in this courtroom behind us.

REID: Absolutely. Scheduling is going to be such a big issue here, and the judge has said, look, we have Wednesdays off. I have said that. But if there are too many delays, I could retract that. So, that's a warning shot to the Trump team and possibly to the prosecution, don't cause unnecessary delays. Otherwise, I'm going to take over your Wednesday as well.

But then there's this issue of Passover, which begins next week on Monday. If you read the transcript the last time this was brought up, it appears that the Trump defense team asked to have next Monday and Tuesday off for Passover. And the judge infers, again, according to the transcript, that that won't be a problem. And that he also wants to make sure that jurors will be able to observe religious holidays.

Now, the thing is right now we don't have a jury, right? We only have a jury pool. But in court today, the judge says, actually, they're not going to get the 22nd and the 23rd off. They're going to work up until 2:00 P.M., which he believes will allow sufficient time for counsel to observe their holiday to get to their destination.

Now, this may seem like, okay, scheduling calendars, whatever, but this could become a significant issue because the defense team did ask off so that they could observe this holiday.

I expect that they're going to continue to make a thing out of this. But I want to note actually something that just happened different, a big win for the Trump team. The district attorney's office has agreed in this first round of elimination where you get rid of potential jurors for cause, either do you have a vacation or some other reason you can't serve or is it biased that they are going to separate out those two groups.

That's a big thing for the Trump team, because they want to be able to preserve this for appeal. How many people did we lose because they couldn't be impartial? So, that's a win.

COLLINS: And Elie Honig and others said that was pretty common sense of an ask for them. But this is really a big deal on next week because Trump's team had kind of been under this impression, Kristen, that they would not be in court next week, that the jury selection they expect would take about a week, and that they would not be actually arguing this case starting next week with witnesses taking the stand because they thought they were going to have Monday, Tuesday, they thought Wednesday would be off. So, it does matter. They may have to start arguing this much sooner than they were planning for privately.

HOLMES: Yes, that's right. And also it's going to be a big deal. They're going to make a big deal of it because he does have a political schedule. I mean, they have been trying to craft around this idea that he could still somehow be on the campaign trail.

Now, to be clear, this idea that this is going to like take him off the campaign trail for weeks at a time, Donald Trump was never really doing more than --

COLLINS: He hasn't been doing it in time of weeks.

REID: However, if you are severely limited and the only days that you think you have are Wednesdays and Saturdays because you have to spend the night at Trump Tower so you can get to court the next day, taking that potential Wednesday away is going to be a big deal. And, of course, as we know, everything they are going to argue is going to be political and that's going to be one of the things I can guarantee that they focus on.

COLLINS: Yes. And the judge just said he is not going to be making any changes to the jury questionnaire. He says it is by far the most exhaustive questionnaire this court has ever seen, and said he will not be making those additional changes to that, Laura.

Obviously, as we are seeing how typically things that both sides would just agree on to move past, they are going to fight every single fight. That is what we have heard from our sources inside Trump's world.

COATES: Did you use the word, typical, Kaitlan? I'm not sure that it applies at all during this entire process right now.

Let's go to you, Elie, on this point, because as much as Trump's calendar and schedule matters, it's now about the jury. We're in jury selection mode, the most important part of any trial. It's coming out of Manhattan, not the other boroughs, very important for Trump.

HONIG: It is Laura. Now, we begin the process of narrowing down 1.6 million Manhattanites to 12 lucky or unlucky, depending on how you look at it, people who will sit on the jury.

Now, the --

COATES: Well, 16, even 18, possibly.

HONIG: 18, including 6 alternates, correct.

So, the first thing that's going to happen starting momentarily is the judge is going to call groups of about 100 potential jurors at a time into the room. The French for that, if you prefer, is veneer. I like to use the English. The judge will then ask that jury pool, the veneer, two questions, which we just learned are going to be separated, as Donald Trump's team asked.

First of all --

COATES: Wait. Walk through that. Why is that so important to have a separate -- have appellate rights reserved?

HONIG: So one of the questions is going to be, do you have a hardship? Do you have a job that absolutely keeps you from doing this? Are you a heart surgeon, for example, are you a third grade teacher, that kind of thing.

The other question, which will not be asked separately is, do you have such a strong bias for or against either of the parties in this case that you cannot possibly sit on this case? And Trump's team wants that separated out because they may want to argue on appeal, look how biased this jury pool was against us.

Now --

COATES: And remember, of course, the judge in the past actually went through, if you said you were too impartial and had a case-by-case scenario, this time he's opted not to do so because then my time is going to take.

HONIG: Exactly, so he's going to ask them those questions and that will narrow down our pool, which will bring us to the remaining people, then they'll run through the jury questionnaire

COATES: Well, this is going to be really important. And he says, very exhaustive and very lengthy. A lot of it's very typical in terms of where you're from, et cetera, but not questions about who you voted for.

[10:25:02]

Really important here, they want to know your views on the case and also your media sources, which could be pretty telling, right, to figure out, it can be very reflective of who are and what your beliefs are about your particular issue, but also your political activity, whether you or someone in your actual circle. Not just you alone, has attended a rally either for Trump or anti-Trump. Really as a proxy to figure what you're views are with respect to Donald Trump, right?

HONIG: Right. And then once that jury questionnaire is done, now we get into what we call the strikes or the challenges. This is the removal of those people.

Now, there's a couple ways that can happen. First of all, the judge can dismiss jurors what they call, for cause, meaning something in that juried questionnaire showed us that this person is incapable of ruling impartially.

And when that's over, this is where we really get strategic, the parties each have what are called peremptory challenges. In this case, because we're in state court, each side has ten. And those, Laura, as you know, those are gold. Those are precious. You have the ability to remove ten jurors who you just don't like the cut of their suit, you don't like their vibe. You cannot use those, however, for racially discriminatory or other constitutionally prohibited purposes. But these are gold.

And so the parties are going to be preserving those and using those ten precious strikes to remove jurors that they just feel like they can't live with.

COATES: I always think of a peremptory prerogative, meaning your pregates (ph) are just -- you're welcome. You can do anything you want to get the person off, but, again, you're right about it. It can't be for racial reasons, ethnicity, religion, or gender. And it's really important. It might be called a Batson challenge, somebody who agrees to the actual prosecutor spends making notes a little bit to preserve their ability to say they did not do so on the basis of any of those very features, then you've got the election as a big issue here, of course.

HONIG: Yes. This is a tough jury pool for Donald Trump. Look, this is the right place where this case was to be charged. This was where the alleged crime occurred. But let's be real here. This a jury poll that is loaded against Donald, politically.

There's a difference between where someone voted and what they would do on a jury. But in Manhattan, New York County, Donald Trump only got 12.3 percent of the vote in 2020, meaning 80-some percent are inclined against him.

And, again, important to remember no Bronx, no Queens, no Staten Island, no Brooklyn here. This is Manhattan and Manhattan only.

Let's go back to Philly. That's Jake Tapper.

TAPPER: Right. Thanks, Laura Coates.

I'm joined now by Attorney and Jury Consultant Renato Stabile. Renato, thanks for joining us.

So, almost everyone in the world has an opinion about Donald Trump, but the judge said in his written order, that doesn't matter. Quote, the purpose of jury selection is not to determine whether a perspective juror does or does not like one of the party. Such questions are irrelevant because they do not go to the issue of the prospective jurors' qualifications, unquote.

Is that really how it works, though, jurors opinions about Donald Trump are irrelevant?

RENATO STABILE, JURY CONSULTANT AND ATTORNEY: I mean, I totally disagree with that. I mean, I disagree with it factually, but I also disagree with it legally. If you come into jury selection and you have a particular feeling about the defendant who's on trial, and let's face it, most jurors come in to jury selection, and they don't know the defendant on the trial.

This is completely different. Everybody knows him. Everybody has a view of him, and I think under New York law that that has to be taken into account. And if there is any possibility, and there's a court of appeals case, 1984, People versus Torpey, it says if there was any possibility that your feelings about that defendant himself will affect your ability to be fair and impartial, you should be excused.

TAPPER: You heard Elie Honig just point out that Donald Trump got only 12 percent of the vote in Manhattan in 2020. Trump says that shows he can't possibly get a fair trial here. What do you think?

STABILE: Look, that's probably true. I mean, there are other counties you could have moved this case to. I'm sure Donald would have loved to have moved the case Richmond County, to Staten Island, where he's overwhelmingly favored.

But there are other more even counties. You could take it to Sullivan County, Orange County. Those are more split counties within the state of New York. They're more 50-50 Democrat and Republican. I think, overwhelmingly, he is facing a very uphill battle here. I think they're looking to get maybe one or two Republicans on the jury and go for the hung jury

TAPPER: What do you think the defense and prosecution are looking for here beyond what you just said? What kinds of jurors do they want, which ones are they going to try to reject?

STABILE: Right. So, jury selection is not jury selection, it's jury deselection. You can't go into it thinking about who you want, it is who have to get rid of, who are your nightmare jurors, who were the people you absolutely have get to rid of.

So, for the defense, obviously that's going to be the most left- leaning, the most liberal Democrats. They're going get that from their answers during voir dire. They are also going be doing deep dives into their social media.

You know, people are talking about whether or not you're going to know if somebody is a Republican or Democrat. Of course, you are going know that because you can look up voter registration. You could look up how people contributed to various political campaigns, when they voted. Do they vote in primaries? Do they change their party affiliation? And, of course, their social media, their Facebook, Instagram, all of those things come into play.

TAPPER: There's a question on the jury question here, Question 10.

[10:30:00] It lists, I don't know, roughly 20 outlets where people might get their news, ranging from CNN to MSNBC, to Fox, to Google.