Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Live Event/Special

Prosecutors Ask Judge To Sanction Trump For Social Media Posts; Trump Says He Understands After Judge Reads His Rights; Israeli Official: War Cabinet Determined To Act In Response To Iran Attack. Aired 12:30-1p ET

Aired April 15, 2024 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:30:01]

PAULA REID, CNN CHIEF LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: And here the prosecutors are asking for him to be fined $1,000 for each post. And also asking the judge to warn Trump, remind him that if he continues to violate this gag order, he could be held in contempt.

Now, the judge has not yet ruled on this motion, and of course we are on a break. But this is going to be an issue that will likely come up pretty much every day.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN HOST: And we are joined outside this courthouse by Judge Jill Konviser, a former New York State Supreme Court Justice who is also friends with Judge Merchan. That is the judge overseeing this case. That Trump has tried unsuccessfully, time and time again to recuse himself from this case.

And Judge, it's great to have you here, especially just given your knowledge of Judge Merchan because he has, you know, intense impact on shaping what this is going to look like. And right now on day one, he's being faced with this decision. Did Donald Trump violate this gag order and how does he respond? If so, he's deciding clearly after the lunch break. How do you think he's weighing this?

JILL KONVISER, FORMER NY STATE SUPREME COURT JUSTICE: Well, I think that Juan Merchan is in a great position to be the judge in this particular case because of the depth of his experience. People look at the Trump case very carefully and under a microscope because for obvious reasons. But -- it is quite loud here.

But, obviously, Juan Merchan for 15 years, has handled difficult defendants before. And they're dealt with defendants who have acted out in courtrooms, defendants who are alleged murderers, rapists. This is what we do. It is the landscape in which we toil. So I don't think this is a huge lift for Juan Merchan, for Judge Merchan.

I do think, however, that if it were me, certainly, I would warn the defendant again. Doing a contempt proceeding at this point will slow everything down. It doesn't really benefit anyone.

COLLINS: I have to get your perspective on something that also Trump has just been arguing that he wants to do, which is when there are those sidebars between the judge and the prosecutors and Trump's defense team, Trump wants to be able to approach the bench. How unusual is that?

KONVISER: That's entirely unusual. I would never allow it. The defendant, in any criminal case, is entitled to hear any of those sidebar conversations if they involve issues for which the defendant could give input. So if it's strictly legal, the defendant has no right to be there, but if it's anything with a factual basis, the defendant does have a right to be there.

And, logistically, I think that's a challenge for a Judge Merchan to make sure that the defendant has that opportunity if it means clearing the courtroom or going in the back as we often do. Logistically, again, it's hard here because you have Secret Service, you have court officers and a lot of lawyers. So that makes it a little more complicated.

COLLINS: Well, and what happened right before this break happened? And I should note, just -- you were mentioning how loud it is here. I mean, it is kind of a circus down here. It's really the most generous way to describe it. It's always a little bit crazy. Paula and I have spent a lot of time down here.

Today feels especially more so. I mean, some of his former supporters are just circling the courthouse really. As he is inside, he just left without speaking. But one thing the judge was just doing was reading Trump his rights and telling him that if he disrupts this trial, that the judge has the right to exclude him and even potentially jail him if that happens, what would have the -- what's the threshold for something like that?

KONVISER: Well, that's a good question. Every defendant has a right to be present at their own trial. That right is fundamental, but it is not absolute. In other words, if a defendant, by their conduct, cannot follow the rules of the courtroom, cannot follow the rules of the staff in the courtroom, speaks out over the judge, a defendant can forfeit their right to be present.

And if the defendant continues to do that I would say he would find himself in a bit of trouble. Judge Merchan is not going to tolerate it. He is a consummate professional. He is a fair and just jurist. And he will do everything he can to ensure that the defendant gets the fair trial to which he is entitled.

And if that includes taking him out of the courtroom because he, you know, he destroys the process or infects it deleteriously, he will do that. And warning the defendant is the only standard. If the defendant knows and persists, he can be waltzed out not to return. He can be jailed too. We'll see if that happens.

COLLINS: How would you describe how Judge Merchan is in the courtroom? You know, if you're -- we don't have cameras in there, so we can't actually see what it looks like. We just see sketches, pictures. We get our dispatches from our team. How would you describe it to someone who's sitting at home and is curious what it's actually like in the room?

KONVISER: I would say that is -- it's probably not quite the circus in there that it is out here. There's a certain amount of decorum that's required. There's a lot of people in that courtroom and a lot of static, I'm sure. But when the judge is on the bench and speaking, everyone needs to, you know, take notice and pay attention.

When the jurors walk in, they will show the appropriate respect for the courtroom. Everyone needs to do that.

[12:35:03]

It's much like something that you would see on TV that's very -- a lot of people in the jury box, a lot of people in the courtroom, and everyone in their position. Judge Merchan is not a hothead. He's not a screamer. He is, as I said, a professional.

He takes this very seriously. I don't think he's going home losing sleep at night over this case. I just don't. I'm sure he's focused on it because there's a lot of work involved and a lot of scrutiny. But he handles a lot tougher defendants.

COLLINS: Yes.

KONVISER: I have confidence in him.

COLLINS: The Trump team tried to get him bounced from this because he said it was intense preparation. Clearly, we all know that. That is one thing that is everyone can agree on.

Judge Konviser, great to have you joining us here outside the courthouse.

KONVISER: Thank you so much.

COLLINS: And as I noted, they are in the lunch break now. We are waiting to hear on some key rulings from the judge when they return. This is -- we're live in Manhattan for Donald Trump's first criminal trial.

But we're also following major news overseas as the Israeli war cabinet is weighing how to respond to Iran's attacks on Israel over the weekend, brazen attacks. We're live in Tel Aviv right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:40:43]

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: And welcome back to CNN Special Coverage. I'm Anderson Cooper in Tel Aviv, where we've been getting new details on Israel's plans to respond to Iran's aggression. The war cabinet held a meeting that got heated at times, according to sources. And an Israeli official telling our Jeremy Diamond they reviewed potential military responses and remain determined to act.

CNN's Clarissa Ward joins me here in Tel Aviv. There's obviously a lot of different considerations in any kind of response, both not only the nature of the response itself, but the timing involved as well. CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Right. I mean, they met for three hours today, three hours yesterday. They are obviously taking their time to consider precisely how they want to respond. They are facing a lot of pressure internationally. There is some goodwill on Israel's side on this, but there are also strong voices of caution saying, please, let us not escalate this. Let us not risk a regional conflagration.

And particularly, from some of Israel's allies in the region. At the same time, you have these domestic political considerations. You have the hard right elements of Netanyahu's coalition who are saying we've got to hit them hard. There needs to be a deterrent. So I think there's several, you know, possible options that they would be looking into a direct attack on Iran sort of a tip for tat, focused on military targets and asymmetrical attack, maybe looking at one of Iran's numerous proxies in the region.

They could potentially opt for a cyberattack. At this stage, we don't know, but we do have the sense from everything we're hearing from Jeremy's reporting that you just referred to, that there is some kind of urgency. There's a desire to move quickly while momentum is on the side and while there is still some goodwill from the international community on the side.

COLLINS: Barak Ravid had reported for Axios that, and we talked to him just earlier today that the defense minister had talked to Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin yesterday. And that there was some concern on the part of the defense minister that a response should be quick. Because of the kind of the timing of this, that the longer that they wait, the more -- the less sympathetic others around the world might be.

WARD: I mean, if you think of what we're talking about right now as opposed to what we would have been talking about a week ago, we're not talking about Gaza right now. We're not talking about the difficulties and, you know, criticism that the war has taken.

So I think there's an understanding for Israel that the conversation has shifted. It's in a more favorable place for them, and they want to take advantage of that. They want to exploit that. They probably do not want the attention to go straight back to Gaza and the atrocities that have been taking place there and the suffering and the very real difficulties that they have been facing there as well.

So, I think there's a sense that they want to keep control of the conversation, reframe the narrative to their advantage. How and -- you know, would they go about that, remains an open question.

COOPER: Yes. Clarissa Ward, thank you very much.

I want to turn to -- back into the U.S. to the Deputy Pentagon Press Secretary Sabrina Singh. Sabrina, thanks for your time today. What do you make of Israel's war cabinet saying they are determined to act against Iran? Are you concerned they'll not heed President Biden's advice that they consider the response to the Iran strike a win that does not require a response?

SABRINA SINGH, DEPUTY PENTAGON PRESS SECRETARY: Well, thanks, Anderson, for having me today. Look, that is a decision that Israel's going to have to make, and as you said, the war cabinet is meeting to decide if they are going to respond. And that's their decision. We are there in the region in the Middle East because of our mission in Iraq and Syria to ensure the enduring defeat of ISIS.

And as the president has said, we will always stand in ironclad support for Israel's defense, and that's exactly what you saw this weekend with our air power and our destroyers in the Eastern Med shooting down a range of ballistic missiles and drones shot from Iran in an unprecedented attack, which was met with an unprecedented response.

So that's what we are focused on. We want to see a de-escalation of tensions in the region. And, of course, we do not seek a wider war with Iran.

COOPER: There was cooperation from Jordan, from Saudi Arabia, we understand, during this in terms of regional cooperation. How concerned is the administration about that cooperation ending from some of the regional countries here if there is an Israeli response directly against Iran?

[12:45:00]

SINGH: Well, look, we have great partnerships in the region. I'd certainly let Israel speak to their own partnerships with other countries. But what you saw this weekend was a coalition that came together and I think really saw and showed a strong amount of support for Israel's self-defense.

Again, I won't speak for those other countries and for Israel, but we're certainly proud of the relationships that we have within the region. The secretary has been making calls over the weekend to his counterparts in neighboring countries. And again, we're going to continue that engagements throughout the week. But the secretary, the president has continued to say that our support for Israel's self- defense remains ironclad.

COOPER: Can you characterize the nature of the strike by Israel -- by Iran? I mean, the fact that the Iranian strike didn't do much damage, nearly every missile and drone was intercepted. Is that simply because -- I mean, it was a military failure on the part of Iran because of the capabilities of Israel and the U.S. and other partners, or was this attack in some way designed to send a message rather than do damage? Is there a way to assess that?

WARD: We assess that this attack was not some type of signaling or message from Iran. This was meant to really inflict damage, to inflict civilian casualties, but they failed in doing that. And what you saw with the U.S. and Israel and our coalition partners in the region come together.

We really knitted together our air defenses in preventing these attacks from being successful. I mean, we were able to shoot down and stop almost 99 percent of what Iran shot towards Israel. So that really says something about the Israeli military capabilities, about our U.S. military's capabilities. And, of course, it really sends a strong signal to the world that Iran is not the military power that it projects itself to be.

COOPER: Sabrina Singh, thank you so much for your time.

Jake, let's go back to you.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks, Anderson.

Coming up, we're following an extraordinary moment in American history. Donald Trump has become the first president to ever, ever stand trial on criminal charges. We'll bring you all the latest. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:51:37]

TAPPER: Welcome back to CNN's special live coverage of Donald Trump's hush money cover up trial. Court has adjourned for lunch. We do expect jury selection to start this afternoon.

Let's bring in the New York Times Maggie Haberman, the Pulitzer Prize winner, who was inside court all morning. Maggie, I have to ask, you guys have been, at the Times, have been live blogging this event. And 40 minutes ago, you wrote an observation that I was very surprised.

Trump appears to be sleeping. His head keeps dropping down and his mouth goes slack. Tell us about that.

MAGGIE HABERMAN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, Jake, he appeared to be asleep. And, you know, repeatedly his head would fall down. There have been other moments in other trials, like the E. Jean Carroll trial, which was around the corner in January, where he appeared very still and seemed as if he might be sleeping, but then he would move.

This time, he didn't pay attention to a note that his lawyer, Todd Blanche, passed him. His jaw kept falling on his chest and his mouth kept going slack. Now, you know, sometimes people do fall asleep during court proceedings, but it's notable given the intensity of this morning and a lot of what was being argued.

TAPPER: Yes, that's rather surprising. What was your biggest takeaway from what you saw today in court?

HABERMAN: Jake, so we have yet to hear what the judge is going to say about whether Trump was in violation of the gag order when he attacked Michael Cohen in recent social media posts. Trump's lawyer, Todd Blanche, made the argument a short time ago that Trump is within his rights, that Michael Cohen has criticized him.

The big difference is Michael Cohen is a witness here. Much of the morning focused on, I would say, two fronts. One is, what is going to be permissible related to Michael Cohen? And, you know, there is going to be, I think, extensive arguments about that going forward. And he is the key witness here, Trump's former personal lawyer and fixer.

The other was that Trump had to sit and listen to prosecutors essentially turn his own words into weapons against him. Whether it was tweets about Michael Cohen when he was president that prosecutors say were aimed to intimidate Michael Cohen, or whether it was Trump's words on the infamous Access Hollywood tape in which his vulgar language about grabbing women's genitals was read by prosecutors.

And Trump just sat there, still. But it really underscores that this trial is going to be filled with personal discomfort for Donald Trump, who has often been able to just attack and then walk away. This is going to be much harder for him here.

TAPPER: And at one point, an older tweet of Mr. Trump's, back when he was on Twitter was introduced I guess as evidence of previous moments that Mr. Trump seemed to, I guess according to the prosecution's theory of the case, intimidate witnesses, suggest to witnesses what they should or should not be doing. Can you tell us about that? Do you have any insights into that?

HABERMAN: Sure, there were a couple of tweets. One was actually -- and the prosecutors didn't read the full thing -- but it was attacking me in response to a story that I had done with colleagues about the prospect that Michael Cohen might turn on Trump, and this was shortly after the FBI search of Michael Cohen's home and hotel room and apartment as it turns out we were correct, that is where this went.

But, you know, in prosecutors telling, the relevant portion that they read was about, you know, Trump saying that Cohen's not going to flip and essentially that people are trying to create trouble with these stories. Prosecutors argued that you contrast that and Trump calling Cohen shortly after the FBI search with Trump criticizing Cohen and praising Paul Manafort much later once Michael Cohen had indeed cooperated with authorities. And Paul Manafort, his former campaign chairman was not, as an example of initial witness intimidation and then attacking a witness.

[12:55:24]

And I think you are going to hear a lot more like this. Jake, it's interesting, the only time that I saw Trump sort of issue a genuine laugh was when he was laughing at his own words, read, saying something to the effect of, in that tweet, if anyone wants a good lawyer, don't hire Michael Cohen, and Trump was amused at himself.

TAPPER: All right, the New York Times Pulitzer Prize winner, Maggie Haberman, the author of "Confidence Man", a great book about Donald Trump. Thank you so much for joining us.

Our coverage of Donald Trump's first criminal trial continues after this quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)