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CNN Live Event/Special

World Leaders And Faithful Gather For Pope's Funeral; Cardinals Will Meet In Centuries-Old Process To Pick Next Pope; Pope Francis Remembered For Interfaith Efforts; Father Jim Sichko Reflects On Time Spent With Pope Francis; Pope's Nightly Call With Gaza's Only Catholic Church. Aired 2a-3a ET

Aired April 26, 2024 - 02:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[02:00:00]

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: Hello and welcome to our viewers joining us from the United States and all around the world. I'm Erica Hill. It is 8:00 am at the Vatican where mourners are preparing to say a final goodbye to Pope Francis.

Two hours from now, his funeral mass will be held in St. Peter's Square. Large crowds, as you can see on your screen, they're already gathering. People have been sleeping out overnight just to have the chance to be in that square for this moment.

Very soon, world leaders and dignitaries will also begin arriving. Among them U.S. President Donald Trump and the First Lady Melania Trump. They landed in Rome several hours ago. Over the past several days, some 250,000 people filed through St. Peter's Basilica to pay their final respects to the people's pope.

Afterwards, a group of cardinals sealed the pope's coffin on Friday night, a private rite which officially ends the three day period of his body lying in State. He, of course, was a pope known for his simplicity. And as part of that, he will be buried in a simple wood coffin. And that will happen at Rome's Basilica of Santa Maria Maggiore.

CNN's Vatican Correspondent Christopher Lamb joining us now live from Rome. Christopher, it has been such a week of tradition, of remembrance and now, of course, building up to this final goodbye as this pope is honored and remembered at this funeral mass. What more can we expect this morning?

CHRISTOPHER LAMB, CNN VATICAN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Erica, behind me in St. Peter's I hear the choir starting to practice for the ceremony. People are flooding into St. Peter's Square and a lot of young people coming here this morning to accompany Pope Francis on his final journey.

Of course, Francis was the people's pope. He had a great campaign connection with so many different types of people. I, last night spoke to an imam who had traveled from the United States to be here to pay his respects. Francis wasn't just a pope for Catholics. He was a pope for people of different faiths, of Christians from different denominations.

Now, three things to look out for during the papal funeral. The first is the placing of a book of the Gospels on the pope's coffin. Of course, the gospels recount the life and teachings of Jesus Christ, something that Pope Francis strove to follow throughout his life and ministry.

The second thing is that papal funerals bring together world leaders and heads of state like no other event. We're expecting a large number of leaders from across the world, including, including President Donald Trump. There'll be no specific seating plan for Donald Trump. He will be listed or he will be placed along with other world leaders in alphabetical order according to the French language. Of course, French being the traditional language of diplomacy. The delegations from Italy and Argentina, however, will have pride of place.

The third thing to look out for is, of course, the procession of the pope's coffin from the Vatican to the Basilica of Santa Maria Maggiore. The first time in a hundred years a pope has left the Vatican for his burial. Traditionally, popes have been buried in St. Peter's, but Pope Francis decided to be buried in the basilica, which he was devoted to.

And I think powerfully symbolic that Francis' last journey will be leaving the Vatican. He, of course, was a pope who often left the Vatican, who liked to be a missionary to go out to the margins and the peripheries of society. So that final journey following the funeral service will, I think, be very powerfully symbolic. Erica?

HILL: Yeah, absolutely. You mentioned to this the leaders who will be there. It is fascinating as we look at really the mix of people who will be there in St. Peter's Square, in St. Peter's Square for this moment, because there are, of course, all of these dignitaries, these world leaders, you know, multiple heads of state.

You have sitting monarchs as well. You have, of course, the leaders of the Catholic Church, you have leaders of other faiths, and then you have the faithful and those folks who slept out overnight who wanted a spot to be there. I mean, how many people -- has the Vatican give you a given you a number of how many people they are anticipating could in fact be at this funeral mass outside this morning?

[02:05:00]

LAMB: Well, they are expecting around 250,000 people for this celebration, which is a huge number. I think it's speaks to, you know, the popularity of Francis. Now, John Paul II's funeral 20 years ago saw also huge numbers. But of course, John Paul II had a massive following in Poland, and basically half of Poland would come for that funeral.

Francis, of course, is a pope of the peripheries of the poorest, and not all of them can make it to Rome. So although there are going to be huge numbers in the Square, I imagine there's going to be huge numbers watching this from around the world. And also, I think another powerful symbol of this funeral and burial rites that we're going to see is that a group of the poorest in Rome will be the last people to say goodbye to Francis when his coffin arrives in Santa Maria Maggiore. That, again, is fitting to a pope who said he wanted a poor church for the poor.

HILL: Yeah, it's such an, such an important aspect of what we'll be seeing today and the fact that that is, of course, how this day will in many ways end. Christopher Lamb in Rome for us this hour. Christopher, thank you.

Among the mourners in St. Peter's Square today, the cardinals who will be picking, of course, the next pope. And as CNN's Ben Wedeman explains, those who enter the conclave as favorites aren't often the ones ultimately elected.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): One of the top candidates to succeed Francis is the man who served as his second in command, the current Vatican Secretary Of State Cardinal Pietro Parolin.

From visiting war torn Ukraine to brokering a deal that saw the Holy Sea mend ties with China, The 70 year old Italian is seen as a skilled diplomat and a conciliatory figure who could appeal to both conservatives and progressives. His election, however, could lead to clashes with the Trump administration as he has rebuked the U.S. President's Gaza plan.

Another top contender is Cardinal Fridolin Ambongo Besungu of the Democratic Republic Of Congo. A strong defender of democracy and human rights, Ambongo has been cardinal since 2019.

CARDINAL FRIDOLIN AMBONGO BESUNGU, ARCHBISHOP OF KINSHASA (via translator): I am happy. I am aware of the responsibility this appointment bring.

WEDEMAN (voice over): That responsibility has seen him stand up to warlords and corrupt leaders, becoming a respected moral voice. The 65 year old is also the leader of a massive local church of more than 7 million people and represents the growing church in Africa

A surprise candidate may be Cardinal Robert Prevost from the United States. America's global influence has made electors shy away from choosing a U.S. Pope in the past, but the 69 year old from Chicago spent many years working in Peru before leading the powerful Vatican office for bishop appointments, and he shouldn't be ruled out.

The top contender, though, may hail from one of the corners of the globe where the church has been growing, and few cardinals are as charismatic as Luis Antonio Tagle from The Philippines, often dubbed the Asian Francis.

CARDINAL LUIS ANTONIO TAGLE, FORMER ARCHBISHOP OF MANILA: We believe that Jesus is alive, and he was born and he ministered, he died, and rose from the dead in Asia.

WEDEMAN (voice over): The 67 year old led the church's charitable arm as well as the Vatican Department of Evangelization, and he may be well positioned as the church pivots towards parts of the world where it's expanding.

Still it's impossible to say which, if any, of these candidates will be chosen. If there's anything we can glean from past conclaves, it's that usually the favorites don't get picked. Ben Wedeman, CNN, Rome.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HILL: Our live coverage from St. Peter's Square continues. Just ahead, people lining the streets of Rome, hoping to pay their last respects to Pope Francis. Plus, the late pope, of course, was known as the champion of the forgotten and the powerless. Some of those who will say their final farewells are among the world's most powerful. A closer look at who will be in attendance. That's just ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[02:10:00]

IMAM BEYTULLAH COLAK: Especially for his inter religious affairs relations we love him really.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: Mourners, as you see here, gathering at the Vatican, filling in St. Peter's Square there to honor, to remember Pope Francis, who is being remembered as well, not just for his outreach to Catholics around the globe, but to those of every faith and also as a champion, of course of migrants and the poor.

He's being remembered for his efforts to reshape the church in many ways. And so many of those people again gathering now to pay their respects, their final respects to this pontiff. We will of course also be seeing a number of dignitaries.

We're just learning in fact that Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy has in fact made it. We're learning to Rome. We know that the first lady was there as part of the delegation, as part of Ukraine's delegation.

President Zelenskyy had said that he would do his best, but of course he had a number of military meetings earlier today, we were told. But again, we are now learning that Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelenskyy has in fact arrived in Rome ahead of the Pope's funeral, which begins just about an hour and 45 minutes from now.

Also with me this hour, CNN Vatican Analyst Elisabetta Pique, who's joining us live from Rome. She's the author of Francis' Life and Revolution. Elisabetta, it's great to have you with us and to offer your perspective.

We're talking so much about what is happening today, the impact that this pope has had, not just on the Catholic church, but on the world writ large. I was also struck by, I have to say, just your personal connection to him and the stories that you have told about -- about how he was such a presence in your life in many ways worrying about you.

[02:15:00]

Who is the Pope Francis that you know?

ELISABETTA PIQUE, CNN VATICAN ANALYST: Well, the Pope Francis that I know, it was very, very special. I met him, more than 20 years ago in 2001 when as a journalist, I interviewed him from my newspaper, La Nacion. And since that moment, I understood that I had in front of me a very special priest. He was a different priest. He was an open person and also in in the way that he would manage to communicate.

I remember I will do some question, and he would respond in a direct way without going around. Very direct. I, with my journalist mind, I would say, well, this is the headline. Each answer was a headline because he was really a great communicator. But I remember very well that the most striking thing of that first encounter that then it became a friendship is that when this interview came out in my newspaper and my telephone rung in my apartment in Rome and it was him.

Hello, Elisabetta. Yes. I am Padre Bergoglio. And I say, well, I must have committed some mistake, something. And he said, oh, I just phoned to tell you thank you. And so this humility and also this way of treating a woman in a very normal way, since the beginning was very striking. He was a different man. He wasn't a cardinal that would look up, you know, like, with the superiority. This humility, this, really wanting to know, who are you.

I didn't -- I remember I am a work correspondent. I would come from the Second Intifada. As I said, I saw he was very shy and so to break the ice, I said, look. I just come from the intifada. I don't understand much about the church. And, and he was, really interested in the world because -- very interested, for instance, in the Middle East, Intifada. And then in all my career, always very interested when I would go to the wars also.

HILL: Yeah. It is really remarkable all of these wonderful stories we're hearing about, to your point, the humility, how approachable he was, and also his messaging in terms of being a communicator. I wanted to play a bit of a bit of what he had to say in 2013, right, very new, in many ways to a pope when he was in Brazil speaking to people there about the importance of being involved.

Let's take a listen to that moment.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

POPE FRANCIS (via translator): But I want you to make yourselves heard in your diocese. I want the noise to go out. I want the church to go out onto the streets. I want us to resist everything worldly, everything static, everything comfortable, everything to do with clericalism, everything that might make us closed in on ourselves.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: And that spoke to what we heard from him over the years. Right? As he was talking about whether it was about engaging in the world, the economy, the environment, bringing it back to the simple, to the important things, and connecting that with others around you.

PIQUE: Yes. Really, (inaudible) make -- at the end, he was the one that really steers the waters because, really with his message always going against the currents with his appeal of peace. And I think today, he managed as the first -- when his first mass in 19 March, 2013 in the Square, there were, yes, powerful of the words, but he invited also a cartonero, a garbage picking Sergio Sanchez.

And today, Sergio Sanchez, this cartonero, this garbage picking, he's also there in the Square. So he wanted -- he wanted him to be there, so the powerful and the poor is altogether since the beginning and also at the end of his life.

HILL: It is such a powerful message and certainly, every day, but on this day, certainly as well. Elisabetta, I really appreciate you joining us this hour. Thank you.

Nic Robertson is also with us. He's live outside London's Westminster Cathedral. Nic, so many world leaders have now made their way to Rome. They'll be making their way into Vatican City there for the ceremony this morning. As I mentioned, President Zelenskyy just landing in Rome according to his spokesperson.

Talk to us more about these leaders who will be there. This is, I mean, quite a gathering. It is rare to have so many world leaders in one place.

[02:20:00]

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yeah. And it's really interesting what President Zelenskyy had to say when the pope passed away because, president Zelenskyy talked about how the pope -- how had Pope Francis had given support to Ukraine and Ukrainians. And told, actually, the Catholic faithful to pray for Ukraine and the Ukrainians, a year into the war. And that it -- the pope has said at that time that it -- you know, people shouldn't be afraid, in essence, to show their emotions about it.

And I think for President Zelenskyy, Pope Francis was an important, not just spiritual leader for the Catholic faith, but for his country and his countrymen because he did speak about their supporting them. And he did speak out, to sort of try to highlight their plight and to, you know, to point out that war shouldn't happen, and, and he was critical of Russia as well. And I think you could say the same for the church in Gaza, the Catholic church in Gaza there. Again, the pope would speak out about them. So the -- the wars there.

So as these leaders come together, there's so much to reflect on in their own personal relationships, the way that they'd interacted with the pope, his message about migrants. But, you know, for presidents like President Trump, very much he has on his mind peace in Ukraine. This was something that the pope pushed for.

The President Trump has spoken as well about the importance at the moment for Israel and, for Prime Minister Netanyahu to be perhaps a little kinder and understand the humanity of the terrible food situation in Gaza because the humanitarian aid is being cut off. So I think all these leaders come in with a knowledge of what they do counts, what they did resonated or not with the pope.

He could be critical. You know, we think of President Macron, the French president, met with the pope three times. The pope very tough on him in their first meeting, in relative terms about migrants and the importance of migrants and being more open to refugees.

So for the for the leaders, and we're talking 130 delegations, 50 different heads of state, Argentina, Brazil, Belize, Cyprus, the Czech Republic. The list goes on. New Zealand, their prime minister would be there as well. So from all over the world, the Irish, the Polish who had big Catholic faithful in their own countries, as well as these leaders.

One of those royalty who will be coming, Prince William, has a charity in London that supports -- tries to support the homeless here. Just you only have to look at the cathedral Westminster Cathedral steps behind me, and you can see there the rough sleepers, outside the cathedral.

They come here because on those steps, it is church ground. The local council can't move them on, and they can sleep there. And that is because of the difference between the church and the local council. So the pope was about humanity. The pope was about reaching out and helping the poor. That's a manifestation of it.

Prince William, in his work, in London with the homeless, trying to help the homeless, the centers for the homeless, in a way, will make -- have that connection of all these different leaders, you know, whether we're talking about the crown prince and crown princess of Norway or the or the queen of, Denmark and the king and queen of Spain and Sweden who will all be here as well as along with the king and queen of Belgium. They will all have had their own personal interconnections with the pope.

But to have all these leaders here today, it just represents, I think, how much the pope meant around the world, how much his message, even if it often didn't chime with their own, with President Trump on migration, he still resonated with them, and was important to them and the people in their country.

HILL: Yeah. Absolutely. Nic, really appreciate it. Thank you.

Still ahead here, a closer look at that legacy, the pontiff leaves for the Catholic church. I'll be joined by a papal missionary personally commissioned by Pope Francis. That's after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [02:25:00]

HILL: The funeral for Pope Francis is set to begin just about 90 minutes from now. We have a live look for you at St. Peter's Square, where that mass will be happening at 10:00 am local time. You can see how much it has filled in in just these last couple of hours.

[02:30:00]

HILL: Tens of thousands of people expected to attend, among them world leaders and dignitaries.

In the days ahead, of course, the papal conclave will also be meeting to choose the next pope. If, previous conclaves are any indication, the selection could come fairly quickly. In 2013, Pope Francis was selected on the second day and the fifth vote of the conclave. In 2005, Benedict was elected within 24 hours on the fourth ballot.

In 1978, when John Paul II was named Pontiff, there were eight ballots over the course of three days. Earlier that year, of course, John Paul I was elected after just four votes. One friar says that Papal Conclave, though, talks about how it is truly a special process.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FRIAR PETER ALFONS SARSABA, THE ORDER OF THE FRANCISCAN FRIARS OF THE IMMACULATE: There's a saying that every pope is always chosen by the Holy Spirit, whether it be bad or good. But the first thing to remember is the -- is that the pope is always chosen by the Holy Spirit, and it's up to him to -- it's up to him to how to lead the church. But it's always chosen by the Holy Spirit. And it's up to him to -- it's up to him to how to lead the church. But it's always chosen by the Holy Spirit. We should we should have faith in this one.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: Of course, before there will be the choosing of a new pope, we are first, going to be witnessing the final goodbye to Pope Francis.

CNN's Ben Wedeman is live for us in Rome at this hour. Ben, as we look at, we have seen over the course of the last few hours as I've been speaking with you, we have seen how St. Peter's Square has filled. I know you were speaking to people who slept out overnight. Just walk us through who you've heard from and what is happening behind you there at this moment on the ground.

WEDEMAN: Well, what we're seeing, Erica, is that there are thousands and thousands of people. On my right here is St. Peter's Square in front of the Basilica. That's full of people. And, of course, going down in the other direction to my left, this is Via della Conciliazione. It is jam packed, and people are still entering.

Now just, in front of me, there's a lot of young Italian school children who have come here as a group, and, they're making themselves comfortable on the ground, but, the people are still coming in. And, you know, there are people from all over the world that we've spoken to people from The United States, from Indonesia, from France, from The Philippines.

We spoke to one, French woman. She had come driven all the way from Paris yesterday, and they waited from 2:00 a.m. outside to be among the first people to arrive. This is what she said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: To pay an homage to this pope who was one of the -- just, like more than a great and, great, great men. And, we need to tell, to the people and tell him that, we loved him and we still love him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: And so we're are still -- I mean, I'm amazed at the amount of people and the just sort of the amount of movement there is going on here as people are trying to get as close as possible, to the basilica to participate in this funeral.

Now I was, here in 2005 for the death and the funeral of John Paul II. And what we saw then was, I think as my friend Chris Lamb was saying before, it just felt like half of Poland had come to Rome for the funeral. In this instance, you have a much more diverse crowd, that has come, perhaps reflecting, Pope Francis's universal look at the -- approach to religion, to the Catholic faith and his desire to bring in those.

And for instance, he has brought cardinals into the church who are from places like Mongolia, Papua New Guinea, Tahiti. So he is really focused on trying to really internationalize, the Catholic church in terms of the clergy. Erica?

HILL: Yeah. Absolutely. It is really remarkable as you turn to the camera there to see just how packed that the streets are that, you know, that you're looking out on leaning in there into St. Peter's Square. Ben, appreciate it. Thank you.

Also joining me this hour, Father Jim Sichko is a papal missionary of mercy personally commissioned by Pope Francis. Joining us now from Lexington, Kentucky. I really appreciate you taking the time to join us. I was struck, you wrote a beautiful op ed about Pope Francis. It was just published yesterday.

And you write, what you saw in Pope Francis was exactly what you got. No filters, no frills, just faith. Going on to say, critics said he was controversial. I say he was courageous. How so?

FATHER JIM SICHKO, PAPAL MISSIONARY OF MERCY, DIOCESE OF LEXINGTON: Yes. Well, he was one who was not afraid to reach out to the peripheries, to go throughout to the marginalized. We saw him love all people, and that just was him. And he treated everyone as if they were what they are, children of God.

HILL: You are part of this, small group, right, just a thousand papal missionaries, a very special group. Talk to us a little bit more about that for people who aren't familiar with it, what does it mean, and how important, you know, was Pope Francis in that moment for you?

SICHKO: Well, first of all, you know, in tune about nine years ago Pope Francis brought together a Year of Mercy, and he designated about a thousand priests throughout the world, a 100 in the United States. To go forth being people, being, men of mercy, of healing, of forgiveness.

And after that year, he saw the great grace that came from reaching out, bringing people back to the church, and he elongated that indefinitely. And through the years, we have continued to do various signs and symbols and bring God's mercy and grace and healing, reconciliation, to many, many individuals.

[02:35:00]

HILL: And you spent time with the pope, including, as I understand it, on Christmas Eve. What were those moments like for you? And, yes, talk to us about that that one in particular if you would.

SICHKO: Yeah. Well, that was an interesting story. So I was staying at the Casa Santa Marta, and, I'm the youngest of five, Erica. And, all my brothers and sisters got to come over to Rome. And, they stayed with us at the Casa Santa Marta.

And, I remember my brothers and sisters, we all -- they were up on the fourth floor, and, they were being -- they were so excited to be there, and they were making somewhat of a ruckus, so to speak. And they my oldest brother, Bill, was also embarrassing me because he kept saying, I thought the pope walked around here. You always said he walked freely. We haven't even seen him.

And I was like, please be quiet. And I said, let's go downstairs. And so we all went into the elevator. We went down to the first floor. The elevator opened, and there was the holy father ready to get on the elevator. And my family wouldn't even move. They were so shocked. And I was like, get out of the elevator, get out of the elevator. And the elevator closed, went back up to the fourth floor. I said, what are you all doing? They said it was the pope.

And wait. We went back down to the first floor. The elevator opened, and the holy father simply said, get out. And we got out. We got out. And what did he do? He stopped. He met each of my brothers and sisters. He made sure that we were going to midnight mass, and then he invited us to dinner afterwards. And that was him. That was him. You know?

And he didn't he didn't get waited on privately. He went through the line. He sat at a table. He was not served, but he served. And that was very powerful.

HILL: And so much of what I have heard from those who had a close connection with him, who had spent time with him, is that this is a pope. One of the reasons he seemingly connected with so many people around the globe, Catholic or not, is that he walked the walk, and he was about action. SICHKO: Yes. He let me tell you. He was a messenger of grace, of forgiveness, of mercy for hundreds of millions of people all over the world. You know? And I think the best way for us to honor him is to embody those qualities in our own lives. You know? We all got to strive, especially in our world today, to be more compassionate, to live more, intentionally. We we've got to act with courage.

He constantly said that. You know? You've got to have courage. You got to be an advocate for a better future, and that was him.

HILL: Yeah. And as you said, you found him to be courageous as well. Father Jim Sichko, really appreciate you sharing your memories and sharing some of your time with us. Thank you.

SICHKO: Thanks Erica. You're welcome.

HILL: Pope Francis, of course, also earned the name the people's pope during his years of service. Let's take a closer look at the impact, that compassion that he had for the poor, for immigrant communities, the impact of that compassion after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[02:40:00]

HILL: Live pictures for you here. Saint Peter's Basilica, St. Peter's Square there, as you can see, filled with mourners at this hour, there to pay their respects, to say their final goodbyes to Pope Francis. His funeral mass is set to begin just a little over an hour from now.

In attendance, the faithful, those from not just the Catholic faith, of course, but from a number of different faiths there to pay their respects in addition to a number of dignitaries who will be on hands in 130 confirmed delegations, 50 heads of state, at least 10 reigning monarchs.

This was a pope who also was known, not just as the people's pope, but known for so many firsts. The first pope from Latin America, the first Jesuit to become for pope, the first to call himself Francis. And he leaves a particular legacy when it comes to his consideration for the poor and the powerless.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (via translator): In this context, where few people are taken care of during war times, they have less possibilities than the others. He was one of the few powerful people who actually cared about them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: Christine Allen is the director and CEO of the Catholic Agency for Overseas Development, and she joins us now from London. Christine, it's good to have you with us. I'm so struck, and I've I have so appreciated all of the stories and the moments that people have shared with us about the impact that this pope had on them. You've also witnessed the impact that he had specifically on global leaders, on impacting conversations around the world. Talk to me a little bit about that aspect of his legacy, if you would.

CHRISTINE ALLEN, DIRECTOR & CEO, CATHOLIC AGENCY FOR OVERSEAS DEVELOPMENT: Good morning. Yes. CAFOD is part of the global caritas family, so the response of the church to people in need around the world. And we've seen Pope Francis' legacy in that very, very acutely.

But I'm reminded of a of a couple of instances. One, in 2015 not long after he wrote his very famous, special message to not just the church but to the world, Laudato Si, about the care of our common home. He spoke about the need for -- he spoke about climate change, and he talked about the need for us to care for the Earth. And he had a tremendous impact on those, famous Paris climate negotiations that were taking place.

And the other particular instance that that really strikes me, which I was reminded of by my colleagues in South Sudan just the other day, was in 2019 at the very heart of the civil war that was going on in in South Sudan at that time.

[02:45:00]

He met with the two leaders of the two warring factions. And almost in a -- whether it was a moment of despair or it was a moment of sort of like the Holy Spirit, he tried to bring them together and it just felt impossible.

And he knelt down and he kissed their feet. And these two, you know, heads of state or president and vice president at the time were really shocked. I think everybody was shocked. But it was a moment that just broke that deadlock. And although South Sudan has often found it difficult to get back into full peace, that was a very important moment. So it's a good illustration, I think, of some of that shift and a different style and a different approach that he had.

HILL: And the fact that he would approach those situations to begin with. Right? I know you said that he really had this knack for saying things people didn't necessarily want to hear. But he could say them and he could do it in a way that people would listen. And you noted that he challenged people, even challenging those leaders to come together. But even in those moments, it came from a place of love.

ALLEN: Absolutely. And I think that's -- there's two words, I think, that will be the hallmark of Pope Francis' pontificus, and you've heard it all the way through in all of the comments that you've had, and they are love and mercy. And that sense of everything that he said it came because it was rooted in the gospel rooted in a gospel imperative, you know, our call to care for one another to be as Jesus.

I remember being -- when I first met Pope Francis, being at the Caritas General Assembly and he spoke to us, you know, all of these development organizations from all around the world And he said, you do amazing things. You know, you really do. You're responding to need all over the place. He said, but don't ever think that you're just NGOs. He said, you're the church. You are bringing the love of God to people, and you are being the love of God to others, and never forget that. And that for me was a really important moment. You know, that amidst all the reports and the spreadsheets and all the accountability and all of the stuff that we've got to do to make ends meet, this is about love, putting love into practice, and that's what he was so good at.

HILL: I know you said that he left, he left us with unfinished business. What is that unfinished business in your eyes?

ALLEN: Well, the world is a is a troubled place, isn't it? It's a place of turmoil. But one of the things that Pope Francis has launched just at the beginning of the or the end of last year is this year of mercy -- the year of jubilee. A jubilee year is a very special moment the life of the church and this year's jubilee is particularly focused around just being pilgrims of hope.

And one of the issues within this year of jubilee that they are focusing in on is this need for us to tackle the unfair economy that we have in our world where so many people are in debt crisis. Over 3 billion people around the world live in countries that are in debt crisis. That means their governments are spending more on repaying the debt than they are on health and education and even tackling climate change.

And Pope Francis is saying who is it that pays the price of some of these economies, some of these economic and political decisions that we have? We must never forget who it is that pays the price. It's the poorest. And he's called us in this year to make sure that we live out that call to be pilgrims of hope, especially by tackling that international global debt crisis.

HILL: Christine Allen, really appreciate your time. Thank you.

Street artists are paying tribute as well to the late Pope Francis. Murals, life-sized depictions now decorating the streets of the eternal city. We'll show you more of those when our coverage continues after the short break.

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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, it's lovely. Yeah. Really good memorial. I like it.

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HILL: Some of the street art there honoring the late Pope Francis popping up around Rome. This work is just a few steps from the Vatican. As you see there, it depicts Pope Francis as an angel with a halo and wings. The word love and a peace symbol are also sketched above. The artist says he wanted to show the pontiff as an angel because of his calls for reconciliation and peace.

Live pictures here once again from St. Peter's Square where thousands of mourners are taking every available spot to be able to say their final goodbyes just ahead of this funeral mass set to begin in about an hour.

People slept on the streets overnight hoping to ensure their spot there. The funeral mass for the man known as the people's pope again begins at the top of the hour, 10:00 a.m. local time.

Members of Gaza's only Catholic church say they are heartbroken by the passing of Pope Francis. The pontiff shared nightly phone calls with the faithful there for the past 18 months. CNN's Jeremy Diamond takes a closer look at that special bond and what it meant for Palestinian Christians amid the Israel-Hamas war.

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POPE FRANCIS: Yousseff.

FR. YOUSSEFF: Good evening, Holy Father.

POPE FRANCIS: Good evening, how are you.

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): For the last 18 months of his life, this was Pope Francis's nightly ritual at 8:00 p.m., a call to war torn Gaza.

POPE FRANCIS: What did you eat today?

FR. YOUSSEF: Chicken wings.

FR. GABRIEL, PALESTINIAN CATHOLIC PRIEST: The rest of the chicken from --

DIAMOND (voice-over): From the third day of the war until two days before his death, Pope Francis spoke nightly with the Holy Family Church, forging a special wartime bond that priests and parishioners of Gaza's only Catholic Church won't ever forget.

REV. GABRIEL ROMANELLI, HOLY FAMILY CHURCH: Daily, he called us and to us to ask for peace, to pray for peace, and to give the blessing for all Gazan people and for all the Palestinians. "

DIAMOND (voice-over): He spoke to us with a father's anxiety for his children", Church leader George Anton recalled. He would reassure us, checking if we had eaten, if we had something to drink, if we had medicine, how the children were feeling, how the mothers were coping.

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The relationship drew the Pope closer to the plight of Gaza's civilian population, and informed his outspoken criticism of Israel's attacks.

"Yesterday, children were bombed", the Pope decried in December. "This is cruelty. This is not war. I want to say this because it touched my heart." The Pope also regularly called out rising anti-Semitism and demanded the release of Israeli hostages, including in his final address on Easter Sunday, in which he called for a ceasefire one last time.

Inside Gaza's Holy Family Church, one of the many communities Pope Francis touched gathers to pray for his soul and for the world to see them as Francis did.

GEORGE ANTONE, HEAD OF EMERGENCY COMMITTEE, HOLY FAMILY CHURCH IN GAZA (via translator): My message to the world is to look at Gaza with the same eyes through which Pope Francis viewed it. eyes of truth, justice, peace, love. Eyes that saw the people of Gaza as deserving of life with dignity, justice and independence.

DIAMOND (voice-over): From this small church in Gaza, a prayer against the scourge of indifference which Pope Francis called the greatest sickness of our time.

Jeremy Diamond, CNN, Jerusalem.

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HILL: Thank you for joining me this hour. I'm Erica Hill. Anderson Cooper picks up our coverage of the funeral of Pope Francis after the short break.

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