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Prosecution Introducing Trump Social Media Posts About The "Access Hollywood" Recording; Now: Hope Hicks Called To Testify. Aired 11-11:30a ET

Aired May 03, 2024 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[11:01:01]

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: It has been a busy morning inside 100 Center Street. That's what you're looking at right here. Right now, there is a brief break inside of the courtroom. But when the judge and the jury come back, direct examination is going to resume for the second witness today. It is a paralegal for the prosecution. The unanswered question is if or when. We'll see some of those brand name witnesses who we know were in the trenches of an alleged scheme that could potentially send Donald Trump to prison if he's convicted here, a big if. Names that we have been talking about, Michael Cohen, Stormy Daniels, maybe Hope Hicks.

I'm Kaitlin Collins here in New York.

DANA BASH, CNN ANCHOR: Bash in Washington. Prosecutors continue to lay the foundation this morning for their case against the former president. The witnesses are giving them a passageway to introduce evidence against Trump recordings and now social media posts. And we're seeing the former president transport his delay strategy from outside the courtroom to inside the courtroom, giving not a single inch to the prosecution's rush to put the facts on the record. My panel is here with me. So now that the court is in a break, I think we expect them back momentarily. Elie, can you just give our viewers an idea of what happened this morning in court?

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: So the witnesses today have been technical but still really vital to the prosecution's case and potentially to the defense. When the day started, we had Douglas Daus on the stand. Now he's an investigator, works for the Manhattan D.A. And his specialty is digital forensics. He had gone through two of Michael Cohen's cell phones, and they're using him as a vehicle, as a foundation to introduce evidence found on those cell phones, which will include texts, could include e-mails and includes a very important recording, the recording that Michael Cohen made of his conversation with Donald Trump back in September 2016, where they're discussing the Karen McDougal payout. The jury has heard that once. I think we are going to hear it again throughout the trial.

Now, on the stand is a paralegal with the Manhattan D.A.'s office named Georgia Longstreet. Not a name anyone should be expected to know. And it seems like what she is doing is authenticating, laying the foundation for certain social media posts that Donald Trump put up. She -- earlier, we had a note, she was explaining Twitter to the jury. Good luck with that. And she also apparently has gone through thousands of Donald Trump's tweets in Truth Social. She won't be commenting on them. She'll just be saying, yes, this is a post he put up.

And to the point you were making before, Dana, the reason we're hearing from these witnesses is because Donald Trump's legal team, as is their right, has refused to stipulate. Usually, not always, but 80, 90 percent of the time, the defense will say, yes, we agree, those tweets are in fact, his tweets. You don't have to call the paralegal. Donald Trump is giving no quarter. Therefore, all these witnesses are having to take the stand.

BASH: And Carolyn, you are our expert on juries here. How do you suppose, and I know that this is you're in large part guessing, but it's informative, it's informed guessing about how the judge responds to a moment like we're about to see continue when they come back where you have a paralegal reading social media posts.

CAROLYN KOCH, TRIAL & JURY CONSULTANT: You mean how the judge is going to respond to that or?

BASH: The judge and the jury, how they're kind of -- how a jury takes in and absorbs that kind of testimony as opposed to an actual witness giving information?

KOCH: Well, usually the jury assumes that there's a reason for what's going on in front of them. And usually they assume that the witness is important, but they might finish that witness coming to the conclusion, why did we just have to say through that?

BASH: Well, that was what I was getting here, yes.

KOCH: And they might just not really be able to figure it out. And who knows if the refusal to stipulate is based on a, you know, real important basis or if it's just tit for tat. You won't tell us who the witnesses are. We're not going to stipulate. You know, if I were Trump's defense team, I would do the same thing. Why stipulate? Why not have the trial be as boring as possible?

BASH: And, Jim, the judge is going back through their back end, obviously, going back through the exhibits that the defense is objecting to. Prosecutors said with the stipulation they will not seek to offer "The Washington Post" article. So all of this is obviously very important when you look at the details from the point of view of both the defense and the prosecution. What can the jury see? What can they not see? But what about the overall argument that Elie was making about this takes time and it eats up time and it is part of the delay.

[11:05:29]

JIM SCHULTZ, FORMER TRUMP WHITE HOUSE LAWYER: Well, I think you made a good point. It takes out the shock and awe, right? All the things, the things that go on, the testimony that's very interesting, the stuff that we want to talk about on set here. This isn't exciting stuff, but necessary if you don't stipulate and you have to go through these motions in order to get the evidence introduced later on.

BASH: And Jamie Trump is looking at the screen as the judge is hearing arguments on the Twitter posts being admitted into evidence.

JAMIE GANGEL, CNN SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT: He has closed his eyes a couple of times today, but he does seem quite engaged. At one point, a little while ago, he tapped one of his lawyers on the arm trying to get him to go back up, you know, to the point of stipulating and delay. And I think Elie and Jim, we talked about this last week. It works against the prosecution, perhaps in this way. Juries, it's the prosecution's case, if they're having to sit there for longer and longer, that may work against the prosecution. On the other hand, to Jim's point about the shock and awe moment, I think when those happen, you sort of forget about today.

BASH: OK, so let's think about a potential shock and awe moment coming at some point. And that is one of the next big name, bold faced names, who might take the stand. Hope Hicks is one of those who we do expect to see at some point.

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, there's always been kind of an aura around Hope Hicks, an air of mystery, right? She's been with Donald Trump since 2015, but been with the family for years before that. She was privy to everything. When nobody thought that Donald Trump was going to win, when nobody would join his campaign except for a few loyalists, she was by his side. We know that she was in and out of that meeting that David Pecker talked about in August of 2015. She is somebody that you would say knows where the bodies are buried.

Now, she does not have an ongoing relationship with Donald Trump. They are not in touch. Their relationship kind of soured. And by that, I mean they don't speak, but they both hold a lot of affection for each other. Donald Trump still speaks very highly of Hope Hicks. Hope Hicks still speaks very highly of Donald Trump. There was just a moment after she was called to testify in January 6th, and they read her text messages out loud that some in his orbit thought she went a little bit too far in insulting the former president, which caused a little bit of a rift. But again, they still have a relationship. This is not like some of those other people.

BASH: And the one thing I think that is important to underscore is that because Donald Trump is somebody who doesn't e-mail and he doesn't text on his own, people have to understand that a big way that he communicates is that people, when they want to get to Trump, they will text the person with him. And for all those years, it was Hope Hicks.

HOLMES: Right.

BASH: So she -- not only is by his side, she was one of those who was a filter and so involved and knowledgeable about everything coming to and from. And as you comment on that, Jamie, I should say that Blanche is objecting to a Truth Social post where Trump wrote, if you go after me, I'm coming after you. And Jamie, we have that Truth Social post up there right now. I mean, classic all caps. Prosecutors want to get in Trump's social media post to show his, quote, pressure campaign against witnesses set to testify. So we're a little bit --

GANGEL: Doing two things.

BASH: -- two things at once. It's sort of gag order and the actual trial.

HOLMES: And this is from August. This is --

BASH: That's a really good point.

HOLMES: Yes. This is not recent.

BASH: This is not from 2016.

HOLMES, And actually, Jack Smith entered this into evidence with the judge in their case as well, saying --

BASH: Oh, this is interesting. The judge, forgive me, Kristen, the judge is letting the social media posts in saying he's satisfied that the prosecutors have established proper foundation.

GANGEL: Anything to help support keeping Donald Trump from going after jurors, witnesses. Just to go back to Hope Hicks for a moment, for context, in this particular case, we know a little bit about her testimony from Michael Cohen's case. And in that case, the documents, the court documents show that her testimony is she did not know about Stormy Daniels in October, that she didn't know until November.

We don't know what else might come out in this case. But to Kristen's point about how, what a trusted advisor, inner circle that Hope Hicks is, is when you look back at the Mueller case, when you look back at the January 6th case, Hope Hicks was called to testify over and over again. She's in the Mueller report, I think, 180 times. So she's someone on the inside.

[11:10:24]

BASH: Yes, that's a really a good point as well. All right, well, the jury is back in the courtroom now. So I want to go back to New York and to Kaitlan.

COLLINS: Yes, Dana, obviously, we're watching closely, the jury watching closely. They just took a little bit of a break. We do expect them to have several more hours inside that courtroom today. And Paula Reid and Laura Coates are back with me. And with the speculation of who could be the next witness, we know there are still a lot of high profile names to come that will be, you know, the intense moments of questioning by the prosecution, but also cross examination by the defense team.

And I think what it really speaks to is, you know, Trump doesn't know this paralegal who's on the stand right now, but a lot of these have been central figures in his orbit. Keith Davidson was a notable in one yesterday. He had not been in the same room as Donald Trump ever, I believe, until they were in the same courtroom together. LAURA COATES, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF LEGAL ANALYST: You know, you wonder how this is all going to play out. Because if the prosecution strategy is to suggest that he has minions, he has people who he's delegating things to do, and you really -- he wants to have his hands and fingerprints off of everything, well, then it might make sense to jury. You haven't heard people immediately connect the dots. What would you expect to be the case? The person who's the head honcho, the one to actually delegate to be in every room where it happens or would you expect the person to have their legion of fans or employees who are doing something on their behalf. But if every time we go on break or you have the judge leave the bench, the jury does as well.

COLLINS: Can we talk about what's happening here? It may seem small, but it's actually something we have not seen the Trump team do yet, which is they agreed to a stipulation indicating that "The Washington Post" did publish an article on October 7th, 2016, a day that many of us remember very well, when it was Access Hollywood tape. And that happened at 4:01 p.m. It was a Friday afternoon. And this is notable, and this is an article in and of itself. This was the photo that Trump's team had objected to being shown earlier. It's Billy Bush, the woman in the middle, and Donald Trump, you know, the three who were heard on that audio recording, Paula, Trump's team has not stipulated almost anything during this trial. They have made the prosecution bring in these mundane witnesses. The witnesses themselves are not mundane, but their testimony is to talk about these things because they would not agree to that.

PAULA REID, CNN CHIEF LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Yes, exactly. So here we're seeing a stipulation. The Trump team was concerned, and the judge expressed concern, too, about having the jury see that article because as you saw it, had the word lewd in it, he thought that could potentially be prejudicial, which is why here they resolved the situation by stipulating to just get the date of the article in. That's what's significant. Now, the judge is saying, jurors, the stipulation is information. The parties have agreed to without the need to call a witness. And as you said, we've seen so many witnesses who only had to come and testify because they couldn't agree to this.

Now, a couple moments ago, the judge allowed in many social media posts and the reason they're bringing a lot of those in is to show Trump's pattern of alleged intimidation of several of the witnesses in this case, especially Stormy Daniels and Michael Cohen. Now, the judge right now is telling the jury that this stipulation should be considered as any other evidence. So what is significant here is the date of the Access Hollywood tape being revealed, roughly a month before election day.

COATES: Now, I mean, talk about pulling teeth, though. Just think about this. The one thing I'm going to stipulate to is there was an article on this date that is it. That is the equivalent of, you got to prove every single thing. If you want to prove today is Friday, you better bring a witness to do so. But what they can bring in without the actual video, they can bring out the fallout. They're actually saying prosecutors are playing now, the statement of Trump released -- he released on Twitter in response to the Access Hollywood tape.

Remember, the judge --

COLLINS: That's interesting.

COATES: It is, the judge said, you cannot actually play the tape, which many people have already heard the tape, the content of it, finds it too prejudicial. But now he's actually going to play his response to it. Here's the -- and he says, anyone who knows me knows these words don't reflect who I am. I said it. I was wrong and I apologize. Obviously alluding to the idea of whether one is grabbing women by the, you know, what. The reason the judge has had to fight this point is because they're always weighing what is probative, meaning informational for the jury and what's prejudicial, meaning it's going to harm or lessen his view.

And as the jury, they're balancing this all the time. Now, the whole crux of this, though, for the prosecution's case is, what was the fallout from this? What was the reason why they wanted to either get ahead of it, why they wanted to react by maybe paying someone not to speak about an issue that may have been the falling additional straw on the camel's back, I.E. an accusation that there had been an extramarital affair with somebody who was a porn star and director.

And so this is all about the prosecution finally moving the case that much further. We're now in the part where I think most people are saying in the jury box, oh, this is the part that I was actually supposed to be here for. And the video was played, by the way, while embedded within the Trump tweet on the very screen.

[11:15:10]

COLLINS: Well, and that's notable because this is the second time the jury has heard from Donald Trump himself. And it's -- they couldn't play the Access Hollywood video, but they do have permission to read the transcript. Obviously, it doesn't have the same impact as actually having a video, but having Donald Trump come out and acknowledge that those were his words. But he says that they weren't words that, you know, that were familiar or ones that he used often, was his defense of that. What's the intent there by the prosecution to play that?

REID: So the reason the Access Hollywood tape matters in the context of this case is that this came out in early October, and we know from Keith Davidson that it renewed interest in Stormy Daniels' story and, or she thought she had a greater opportunity to maybe get paid out because the Access Hollywood tape, I mean, that was a bomb inside the campaign.

We have another update from inside the court. So this new Trump tweet reads, the very foul mouthed Senator John McCain begged for my support during his primary, I gave, he won, then dropped me over locker room remarks. So they're just showing how Trump was responding in the wake of the fallout from the Access Hollywood tape. But the reason that tape matters is because it put so much pressure on the Trump campaign.

And what prosecutors would argue is that is part of why he had to quickly pay this hush money to Stormy Daniels to suppress her story to help his chances of getting elected. COLLINS: We also have former Manhattan district attorney Karen Friedman Agnifilo here with us, who I should note, is of counsel to a firm that represents Michael Cohen, and she has no contact with him, doesn't work on his case, no restrictions on what she can say. Karen, there seems to be something that the prosecution is doing here, which is they just played the video of Trump in response to the dropping of that Access Hollywood tape where he acknowledged those were his words and then apologized for them.

And now they're showing posts from him on social media denying it, saying nothing ever happened with any of these women, totally made up nonsense to steal the election. Nobody has more respect for women than me. He's defending his behavior on women. He also was criticizing the late Senator John McCain for essentially not supporting him because of the comments he made on that Access Hollywood tape. What do you believe the prosecution is trying to do here?

KAREN FRIEDMAN AGNIFILO, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: I think the prosecution is trying to set up the fact that Donald Trump has made numerous statements, often in conflict with one another. And so they are trying to establish both a timeline of these things, how important these things were, as well as the fact that Donald Trump will deny certain things, admit certain things, and contradict himself in different areas. And that's going to be important evidence, I think, for the prosecution execution in this case.

COLLINS: Does it seem, based on the fact that they are now getting into the nitty-gritty of what happened around the Access Hollywood tape and right for the election, that we may see someone like Hope Hicks take the stand after we've seen these witnesses, you know, testifying about evidence and social media posts? I mean, this seems to me like they are potentially setting up her because she was someone who was right there with the Trump campaign when this was happening. She was very involved in the efforts to respond to it publicly and to talk to reporters. "The Washington Post," I believe, reached out to Hope Hicks when they were publishing the Access Hollywood tape to see if Donald Trump was going to comment while he was in the middle of debate prep at the time.

AGNIFILO: Yes. A very important element for the prosecution is to prove that the reason Donald Trump was doing these hush money payments and hiding the source of the money through falsifying business records wasn't to protect his family, wasn't about Melania, and not finding out that he was cheating on her with not one, but two women at the time. The whole point of this is because this was election related. And all of the evidence that you're seeing come in right now supports that and shows that this was a really intense time. They really wanted to keep this information away from the voting electorate.

COLLINS: And they just introduced another post from Donald Trump on August 4th, 2023, where he read -- it said on Truth Social in all caps, if you go after me, I'm coming after you. Why would prosecution introduce that Truth Social post from Donald Trump? AGNIFILO: I think it just shows how threatening and menacing he is and how he goes after people. He goes after witnesses. I mean, this is a way of making Donald Trump look unsympathetic, looking very much that he is in control of all of what's going on. This isn't happening to him where Michael Cohen is doing something behind his back and spending double -- more than double the money that Stormy Daniels, for example, was demanding. Don't forget the settlement, there was $130,000, but Michael Cohen ended up getting paid, I think, triple that, right? And this just goes to show how Donald Trump was so viciously concerned with making sure that the evidence was what it was, that the people who came after them knew that he could come after them back.

[11:20:18]

COLLINS: Yes. And I should note his attorney, Todd Blanche, has just begun cross examination of that paralegal. We'll see what questions the defense has for her. Karen Friedman Agnifilo, we'll check back in with you. The jury inside that court as Trump's attorney began this moments after hearing an apology from Donald Trump after the Access Hollywood tape dropped just mere weeks before the 2016 election. We are watching everything that is happening inside that courtroom incredibly closely. You're watching CNN's Special Live Coverage.

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[11:25:29]

BASH: Welcome back to CNN Special Live Coverage. Big news right now inside the courthouse in New York City, prosecutors have now called Hope Hicks to the stand. It is a big, big moment, as I said, for Donald Trump and for this hush money trial where he is the defendant. I want to bring in Will Scharf, who is a former attorney for Donald Trump and Republican candidate in the Missouri attorney general's race. Now, you just heard the big news. You know Hope Hicks. You have been familiar with the relationship that she has had as a very, very close advisor to Donald Trump. What's your expectation in this testimony?

WILL SCHARF, TRUMP ATTORNEY: Well, look, I'm somewhat limited in what I can say, unfortunately, because of the wildly unconstitutional gag order that's been placed against President Trump and our team. I can't comment on what her testimony might be or really anything about that. I will say I think that this is the latest in a long string of witnesses we've heard from, from the prosecution who can't really speak to the core issues here, which are business records that were made in 2017 by Trump Organization officials in New York while President Trump was running the country from the White House in Washington, D.C.

I think this sort of smoke and mirrors campaign by the prosecution is calculated to really distort the issues that are at the core of this case. And we'll have to see how things proceed in the coming weeks.

BASH: Yes, I understand what you're saying about the gag order being pertaining to witnesses. And obviously, she is a witness. She is currently on the stand. But what I'm asking is for you to talk broadly about the kind of connection that she has and any potential concern that the campaign might have without specifically talking about her testimony.

SCHARF: Well, look, you know, Hope Hicks obviously worked for the president for a very long time. She was a close aide of his for a very long time. But with respect to what she may or may not say in the courtroom because of this unconstitutional gag order, I just really can't comment on that.

BASH: All right, let's move on to some of what we have heard this morning as we wait for Hope Hicks to actually take the stand. And we will be reporting, obviously, as those questions from the prosecution begin, just kind of looking a bit holistically. David Pecker testified he had concerns about the legality of the deals with Stormy Daniels and Karen McDougal since Trump was a presidential candidate at the time, Keith Davidson, who was the attorney who helped both of those women he made the deal to assist. And the question is whether or not what you heard with regard to Keith Davidson, whether that is a testimony that worries you as an attorney and as a supporter of Donald Trump.

SCHARF: Look, with respect to Keith Davidson's testimony, I think the prosecution is closer to proving an extortion case against President Trump than it is a business records fraud case, you know, that he committed. Again, you know, we're far away from the core facts of this case. We believe that the core facts of this case show that President Trump did absolutely nothing wrong. And I thought Emil Bove and Todd Blanche or I think Emil Bove and Todd Blanche have done an outstanding job cross examining these witnesses so far, really showing that they can't connect President Trump to any crime that was committed. And I think we're going to see that continue to play out in court as we move through witness by witness here.

BASH: And just before the prosecution and the defense actually wrapped up with the paralegal who they had on the stand, to read the social media posts, part of what they were getting at and part of what the jurors heard was not the Access Hollywood tape, because that's not allowed, but the statement that Donald Trump made after the Access Hollywood tape came out and some other social media posts that he put out there. Does that worry you that the jury is now hearing about that, particularly given the fact that was, seemed to be a precursor to the Hope Hicks testimony, which is starting right now?

SCHARF: Well, look, under the rules of evidence, I think much of these materials should have been excluded. Their probative value is so slim with respect to the charged offenses here. And the chance of prejudice to the jury here in front of the jury is so great that I think that was a real evidentiary mistake here. And we'll continue to look at our options there.

[11:30:08]