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CNN Live Event/Special

Stormy Daniels Testifies. Aired 11-11:30a ET

Aired May 07, 2024 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:00:00]

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: She said she had another dinner, but her publicist encouraged her to go to dinner with Trump.

KASIE HUNT, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Yes.

And, again, this all kind of goes -- I think it does actually go to the credibility of Stormy Daniels, in terms of her interaction here and in providing sort of these granular details, or at least it's relevant for me, as someone who understands kind of how this would work.

TAPPER: So, at this point, Anderson, Daniels said she had another dinner, but her publicist is encouraging her to go to dinner with Donald Trump, which, as Brian Stelter reminded us earlier, in 2006, was really at the height of his fame, when it came to "The Apprentice" and "Celebrity Apprentice" to come on NBC, hugely popular show, doing very, very well in the ratings.

And, of course, her publicist says, go to dinner with this popular man. "What could possibly go wrong?" were his words to Stormy Daniels that she recounts with a laugh.

Indeed, what could possibly go wrong, Anderson?

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Yes, "If nothing else, you would get a great story," she recalled her publicist saying, prophetic words indeed.

Back here with Paula Reid and John Berman as well.

I mean, she started out on the stand laying the groundwork of her background, trying to sort of humanize her, talking about her interests. And now they're getting, obviously, to the time that Stormy Daniels comes to the hotel room, according to her, of Donald Trump.

"At the very least, he would probably have some interesting advice," Daniels recalls her publicist telling her.

PAULA REID, CNN CHIEF LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: So, it is interesting, because she will talk later on, I think, in this narrative about how a lot of her interest in Trump was just the possibility of being on "Celebrity Apprentice."

She was approaching this in sort of a transactional way. She was trying to build her brand, get more exposure, and one of the reasons she keeps in touch with him is because she holds out hope that maybe she can get on "Celebrity Apprentice," even though she is skeptical that at that time NBC would have allowed an adult film star on his show.

She says that he told her that, every season, he gets one pick that they can't argue with. So it's interesting right now they're setting up her reasons for meeting with him.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN HOST: And, again, it's step by step, forgive me, to the sex.

REID: Yes.

BERMAN: I mean, we are getting a step-by-step account of how she went to that golf tournament, the interactions that took place, and what brought her inside that room where the encounter took place.

And the jury is hearing all of this.

REID: Yes, we haven't gotten any -- and I don't expect in the next couple hours -- any evidence that would support the actual charges underlying this case, which are the falsifying of business records, 34 counts.

She's not going to be able to speak to that. Where she will offer something, a building block for the prosecutors' case, is, one, she can say that they had sex, which contradicts what the defendant has said, and then also talk about how interest in her story, right, years later, well over a decade later, after the "Access Hollywood" tape, suddenly escalates.

She said: "So I arrived and I went upstairs. Keith had given me very specific instructions to take a certain elevator to the penthouse floor," describing this first encounter with Trump.

BERMAN: And what it does is, it provides color for all of that which Donald Trump wanted to suppress prior to the 2016 election.

COOPER: "That's where I met Keith, who was waiting for me outside the door," Stormy Daniels said, Keith Schiller, Trump's longtime bodyguard who is now retired, essentially, waiting outside the door.

This seems to be, obviously, the practice. Keith Schiller, as others have talked about, was sort of the go-between, giving out his cell phone number as the point of contact.

REID: Yes. And in a post-MeToo world, I mean, meeting someone that you don't know that well in their hotel room under these circumstances, right, some people might think twice now.

The hotel room door was cracked open when she got there, Daniels said, so she walked right in. And Schiller told her Trump was waiting for her. And this is a story she has told many times, I believe, to you as well, about this first encounter in the hotel.

BERMAN: And this is under oath, though.

REID: Yes, very good point.

BERMAN: ... in a jury room before a jury, when Donald Trump...

COOPER: "I didn't really have any expectations. Keith had said just meet up here, and you guys can go downstairs," Daniels said.

The idea that they were going to go out for dinner, I think, in the end, they do not actually go out for dinner.

BERMAN: They're not going out, it doesn't sound like, where this is headed.

COOPER: Yes.

REID: That's right. That's -- she's told -- yes, she's told this story publicly before, but John makes a good point. This is the first time she's telling this under oath, because all of these folks have lied or misled at one point in this saga.

But you can lie to the press, you can lie to your friends, but you can't lie in a court of law. So, here, Daniels notes that there were restaurants at the hotel. And she said: "That was my only expectation."

And we know they don't end up at the restaurant.

COOPER: The question also will become, how does the defense handle Stormy Daniels?

BERMAN: I was just thinking about that. They're getting this detailed account of how this encounter took place. Are they going to bother to try to undercut that?

COOPER: Hoffinger again asks Daniels to slow down for the court reporter. She continues to talk quickly as she's recounting her story.

REID: I think, instead, they're going to come at this -- again, you have to be -- you have to be sensitive. You don't want to sort of attack her on the stand, but you're going to come at this arguing that she was indeed an opportunist.

In her own words, her interest in even returning Trump's calls after this alleged encounter, because she wants to be on "Celebrity Apprentice." They were also going to talk about how she went back at him after "Access Hollywood," knowing that her story was more valuable, knowing that he would need to suppress the story, and noting that her lawyer, they have -- they have tried to frame him as a professional extortionist.

[11:05:12]

So that's, I think, how they're going to attack her. I mean, arguing about what did or did not happen in the hotel room, that's not really going to make her break the case, but getting at her incentive to get this hush money might help them a little.

COOPER: "It was right there inside the doorway, by the table with flowers. I called his name. I said: 'Hello.' And he came out. Trump was wearing satin pajamas, Daniels says, adding she immediately made fun of him.

"Does Mr. Hefner know you stole his pajamas?" she said she told Donald Trump.

BERMAN: Satin pajamas, the man who would become president of the United States.

COOPER: And was supposedly going out to -- about to go out to dinner, but apparently not. Daniels said she told Trump to change. He returned to wearing a dress shirt and dress pants.

It is a difficult -- I mean, does the defense try to, I mean, impugn her character? Do they go after her hard? Or do they sort of try to limit whatever damage she may have given?

REID: Again, I think they have to focus on October 2016 and the fact that she went back at them post-"Access Hollywood," right? The prosecutors are arguing that Trump was incentivized to suppress her story.

Daniels is describing the hotel suite with black-and-white tile floors. She said: "It was bigger than my first three houses."

BERMAN: This is to get to her credibility, as she has vivid memories of this scene, again, describing the encounter right now.

And just to reiterate, this is the encounter that's at the heart of all this case.

"All heavy, beautiful furniture," Daniels recalls. This is the story that Donald Trump, the prosecution argues, was trying to suppress before the 2016 election.

REID: And an intimidating environment, right?

You have an asymmetrical power dynamic here. She's someone who has come from a lower socioeconomic background. She finds herself in this position. In her documentary, towards the end, she revisits this and talks about how she certainly didn't say, no, this was not rape, but she wasn't sure what her other options were.

So it's interesting to hear her describe this encounter now.

COOPER: This is also -- remember, this is in 2006. Donald Trump has married Melania Trump in 2005. She has just given birth to their son, Barron, and Donald Trump is -- has gone off to this golf tournament.

That's sort of the background here. I think they're going to -- I think she will talk about them sitting down and the conversation that ensued before she says they actually had sex.

The prosecution is having Daniels discuss the hotel room detail to help establish that she really had been there.

REID: Yes. And this is important to establish her credibility, give all of these details.

Now, our friends are reporting inside the court that she's still speaking very fast. She's using her hands expressively as she describes the setting, where things were in the hotel.

Now, it's hard to remember something quite that far back, but, again, this was a pivotal event in her life, and she's described it many times. So that may make it more easy for her to recall details about the hotel room.

BERMAN: If you are the defense on cross-examination, do you even bother to say Donald Trump refutes this encounter? Can you even say that?

Because, again, she's describing in vivid detail here...

REID: Yes.

BERMAN: ... something that she says took place that no one is going to testify to the fact or the suggestion that it didn't take place.

REID: Again, adultery, right, is not a crime. He's not being charged with sexual assault. He's being charged with falsifying business records because he tried to cover up a payment to Stormy Daniels to help him get elected in 2016.

So, I'm not sure it really benefits them to go back to the hotel room at all. Instead, I would focus really squarely on 2016 and then the entire year of 2017 and the fact that Stormy Daniels has no interaction with the folks who actually created those checks and those invoices.

COOPER: We should...

REID: Trump appears to be engaged with the testimony, watching Daniels.

Again, he's watching her on the screen in front of him, which is going to be the easiest way for him to watch her. And, look, I was in with him for hours yesterday. His eyes were closed for most of it while former Trump Organization officials were testifying.

He really just was not as attentive as he is now.

COOPER: "I told him where I grew up. He asked about my family. Do I have brothers and sisters? I don't," Daniels said.

It is important. One of the things the defense is clearly going to go after her on is the fact that she signed and released a statement in 2018 denying an affair. She said: "I'm not denying this affair because I was paid in hush money. I'm denying it because it never happened."

I talked to her about that. I said that was a lie. She says: "Yes." I said: "If it was untruthful, why do you sign it?"

She said: "Because they made it sound like I had no choice."

She said the exact sentence used was: "They can make your life hell in many different ways."

"Did you talk to them at all about the conditions of your childhood?" the prosecutor is asking.

"Absolutely," Daniels said. "There's an objection." And the judge sustains it.

Let's go back to Jake.

TAPPER: All right, Anderson. Thank you so much.

There is an objection. The judge is sustaining it. Daniels said that Trump asked her whether she had children, was married, or had a boyfriend. She says she did not.

[11:10:03]

And, again, Elie Honig...

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Yes.

TAPPER: ... the point of all this is just to lay out the narrative, so as to provide -- to enhance, theoretically, her credibility, because, lest we forget, Donald Trump denies that any of this happened.

He says that he never had any relationship with her. And I do wonder how much of this case is going to be her credibility versus his credibility. Daniels said Trump asked about her work, asking how she got involved in the adult entertainment business, making conversation.

"He was very interested in how I segued from just being a porn star to writing and directing," Daniels says.

HONIG: Well, Jake, credibility is everything in a trial, especially when it comes down to the defendant, even if he doesn't take the stand.

The jury's assessing. They have heard his statements. They're hearing stories about him. And prosecutors love details, because details support credibility. I mean, if Stormy Daniels had just taken the stand and said, I met this guy at a golf course in 2006, we had sex, that's it, the jury would be thinking, is that a real story?

But all of these details -- certainly, someone can fabricate details. But all these specifics about Keith Schiller and the contact -- and they were able to back up, by the way, the contact, Keith, Trump. They have a screenshot of that entry in her contacts.

TAPPER: With his actual phone number. HONIG: With his actual number.

TAPPER: Presumably.

HONIG: Right. So all of that bolsters her credibility, which is really important.

TAPPER: "Are there any unions?" These are the questions that Donald Trump was asking.

HONIG: Yes.

TAPPER: "Are there any unions?"

(LAUGHTER)

TAPPER: "Do you get residuals? How are people paid?"

(CROSSTALK)

TAPPER: "Do you get health insurance? What about testing? Are you worried about STDs?"

These are the questions she recalls Mr. Trump asking, all -- by the way, all of them perfectly reasonable questions if you're just having a conversation with somebody who is an adult film star.

HONIG: Yes.

And I think what the prosecution is hoping the jury gets out of this is, she could -- could she be making up these mundane details, which kind of make sense?

TAPPER: Yes.

HONIG: So it goes to credibility.

TAPPER: Bill, why is Donald Trump -- let me rephrase this question.

Would it make more sense for him to, if it did actually happen, acknowledge that this happened, as opposed to denying? Because I don't know if there's polling on this, but my guess is, a lot of people in that courtroom think that actually something did happen.

Daniels says: "Other people want to know the sexy stuff, the dirty stuff, but Trump's questions were very thought-out business questions," which sounds like Donald Trump. He's a businessman.

(LAUGHTER)

BILL BRENNAN, FORMER TRUMP PAYROLL CORPORATION ATTORNEY: Jake, under your question...

TAPPER: Yes.

BRENNAN: ... if, if it happened, absolutely, embrace it. Plus, Davidson was splitting hairs on semantics the other day. This

was not a relationship. This was -- we were talking earlier about where -- this was an imbroglio, a tryst, an encounter...

TAPPER: Yes.

BRENNAN: ... a dalliance. If it -- there's a photo of the two together, so they must have encountered each other at one point.

He may be holding back because of the pressure he's still getting from his wife and family. I don't know.

TAPPER: So, Stormy Daniels says she volunteered to Mr. Trump that she had not tested positive for any sexually transmitted diseases, which is an interesting thing to volunteer, although the -- although he did ask...

DANA BASH, CNN HOST: He did.

TAPPER: ... if they tested for STDs. She said she chose to work for Wicked Pictures, which I presume is a pornographic film company, because it was a -- quote -- "condom-mandatory company. At the time, you had to be tested every 30 days," she says.

I assume she's referring to the gamut of STDs.

LAURA COATES, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: This makes sense, though, if he's getting -- I'm sorry to be the one who's quite...

TAPPER: I don't know. I'm guessing.

COATES: I mean, I...

TAPPER: Judge Merchan is now telling Stormy Daniels to slow down a little bit. She's -- it's a lot of information coming at the jury at once.

COATES: This corroborates for many people the questions you would ask before you engage in sexual activity with someone.

There is a -- there are a lot of people who...

TAPPER: Oh, really?

(CROSSTALK)

COATES: Yes, I know many people...

(LAUGHTER)

COATES: Look, I'm -- I'm a married woman. I'm a daughter. I don't care.

BASH: That is so not where I thought you were going with...

(CROSSTALK) COATES: I'm trying -- I mean, I do care. That's not what I meant.

(LAUGHTER)

COATES: The point is, when you're getting ready to -- there are a lot of people who have sexual encounters who they're asking for your AIDS test, your HIV tests are negative, et cetera, your STD test.

This has happened. And so she's talking about all these things. And, frankly, we look maybe perhaps or are coming across as looking down our nose at the conversation, but, again, she is talking about a transactional relationship, where he's asking her questions prior to engaging in a sexual act.

(CROSSTALK)

TAPPER: Well, let me just -- let me just add that, first of all, Donald Trump is a germaphobe. So that might have been something he was interested in.

But, also, there's an interview that he gave in 1997 in which he said he was a brave soldier for avoiding STDs during his single years in the late '90s. He said: "It's amazing. I can't even believe it. I have been so lucky in terms of that whole world. It's a dangerous world out there. It's like Vietnam, sort of. It's my personal Vietnam."

BASH: Oh, I forgot.

TAPPER: "I feel like a great and very brave soldier," Trump said.

This is after Howard Stern in 1997 asked how he handled making sure he wasn't contract -- was not contracting STDs from the women with whom he was sleeping. This is during his single years, I should note.

I want to bring in Anthony Scaramucci right now, former Trump White House communications director.

Anthony, what do you think is going through Trump's mind today as he listens to this testimony?

ANTHONY SCARAMUCCI, FORMER WHITE HOUSE COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: Well, listen, Jake, the central question, is she believable or not?

[11:15:04]

And so I have -- I have met with her. I was on the Bill Maher show with her, spent time with her at the after-party. And she's very credible. So, whatever her profession may be, the question is, is she credible or not?

And she is credible.

TAPPER: We're showing a picture right now of you with Stormy Daniels.

SCARAMUCCI: And...

TAPPER: Is that -- is that -- I'm not sure if that's Nikki Glaser or who...

SCARAMUCCI: Yes.

TAPPER: Or is that your wife? I'm not sure who the photograph is.

SCARAMUCCI: So, that's my wife.

TAPPER: Oh, it's your wife, OK.

SCARAMUCCI: That's my wife on the right, Jake.

TAPPER: There you go.

SCARAMUCCI: That's Stormy on the left.

TAPPER: There you go.

SCARAMUCCI: That's at the after-party, but...

TAPPER: OK.

SCARAMUCCI: But the point being is, what's going on in Trump's mind is, look, I know all of this stuff is true, but I have got to -- I have got to triple down on the lie here for a number of different reasons.

And I guess the real question is, there's 12 jurors. Will they think she's credible? And I will tell you, in a face-to-face meeting with her, she comes across very credible.

TAPPER: So, Stormy Daniels just shrugged, said she and Trump had a very brief conversation about his wife, Melania.

Do you think -- you said that Mr. Trump is doubling down on I think you said the lie that he and Stormy Daniels had not had a relationship. Daniels right now is saying that she asked Trump about Melania Trump, and said she was very beautiful.

So, do -- you think it is -- you think that she -- Stormy Daniels and Mr. Trump did have this encounter. Why is he not telling the truth about it, in your view, given the fact that it would only enhance his credibility...

SCARAMUCCI: Well...

TAPPER: ... if he -- if he admitted it?

SCARAMUCCI: Well, I think there's a number of different reasons. It's probably some personal reasons. There's political reasons.

You will have to explain to me someday why the hard Christian right has a love affair with Donald Trump. But I think there's a whole gamut of reasons why he's going to sit in the lie. But, again, if you're looking at evidence in a case, and you're sitting there as a juror, who's lying, who's telling the truth, this woman has no reason not to tell the truth. So, in addition to those details, she's often been asked, well, was there anything untoward done or anything sexually aggressive done? And she admits that there wasn't.

TAPPER: Right.

SCARAMUCCI: She says that she was a willing participant.

TAPPER: Right. Daniels just recalled...

SCARAMUCCI: So, for all of those reasons, I think...

TAPPER: Sorry. Sorry, Anthony, for -- just for quick interruption, Dan -- Stormy Daniels just recalling that Trump said "We don't sleep in the same room" about him and Melania Trump.

Again, this is back in 2006. Trump closed his eyes at the defense table. Trump closed his eyes and shook his head and murmured to his attorneys as she responded.

Sorry, please -- please continue.

SCARAMUCCI: Yes, listen, I mean, this type of detail and her -- look, you -- sometimes, you got to say to yourself, what is the motivation for somebody lying?

It's five years after this thing sort of mushroomed on everybody. There's absolutely no reason for her to be lying. And she's under oath with the risk of perjury in a case like this. So -- and then you have to ask yourself if you're meeting her, is she or is she not credible? And I believe she is credible.

BASH: Hey, Anthony, it's -- it's Dana Bash.

And I should tell you that, as you were talking to Jake, we're hearing more from Stormy Daniels on the stand. He -- the then-businessman Donald Trump showed a photo -- a photo of himself on the cover of a magazine, asked if she had seen it. And he said: "No, not that I have -- I didn't watch or look at magazines like that as a 27-year-old film star."

Now, Daniels says she snapped at Trump: "Are you always this rude? Are you always this arrogant and pompous? You don't even know how to have a conversation," she recalls.

I'm guessing, even back then, assuming that this is true, since she's under oath, that's not the way a lot of people talked to Donald Trump, even before he was in politics.

But, Anthony, I want to ask you about the Melania Trump of it all. There was just a reference to her when Stormy Daniels just testified that Trump told Stormy Daniels that the two of them don't sleep in the same room. And this goes back to one of the core questions of this case, which is whether or not he was only trying to protect his family and marriage or whether he was also trying to protect his political viability. And before you answer that, I'm going to read one more update from our

reporters. Daniels says she told Trump of the magazine: "Someone should spank you with that."

I'm sorry, Anthony.

(LAUGHTER)

SCARAMUCCI: Well, I mean, listen, I mean, there's a -- there's a -- there's a simple answer.

And, remember, Dana, when the window is open and you hear clippety- clop outside, it's a horse. It's not a zebra. So, the obvious answer is the answer. And so he had two things going on in his mind. One, he didn't want the exposure personally as it related to his family life. And, secondarily, he knew that this could be a big bomb that blew up on him politically.

And I think that's the big issue for the jury. Did you do this to interfere with that election? And did you improperly use money and put it into your campaign in a way that was illegal?

[11:20:03]

And so, listen, everybody's innocent until proven guilty. It's a criminal case. But I can speak to the facts, and then it's up to the jury to decide if they want to convict him on it.

BASH: And, Anthony, Daniels said that she recalls Trump telling her that she should go on his television show. Daniels says she told him it would never happen to have an adult film star on NBC.

She says she told him -- quote -- "Even you don't have that much power."

That probably is something that stings more than anything for Donald Trump in here.

But as somebody -- I know you famously were only in your communications job at the White House for 10 days, but you knew Donald Trump for many, many years beforehand. Can you just take us inside his head right now and being in this position, this unbelievable position, of sitting in this courtroom, as we speak, as a defendant, with Stormy Daniels on the stand saying the things that she's saying?

SCARAMUCCI: Well, I think a couple of things are happening, but the first thing, Dana, is, he did a lot of things not expecting to run for president.

And so, when he ran for president, I think he was startled that all the things that other politicians could not get away with, for whatever reason, he was allowed to get away with. And I think this was a crucible moment for him.

I think he looked at this and said, OK, this interaction with an adult film star, this could be over the line even for me. And so I think that's ultimately what's going on in his head right now, that all of this thing has mushroomed on him, and he can't get away from the yoke of it.

And even though he paid the money, he wasn't able to get away from it.

BASH: And, Anthony...

SCARAMUCCI: I think that's what's frustrating him the most.

BASH: Anthony, I'm sorry that we keep interrupting you, but this testimony is coming in fast and furious.

SCARAMUCCI: That's OK.

BASH: She testified: "I said" -- she said: "I told you even you don't have that power. But then, at a different point, he said that he reminds me of your daughter, because she's smart, blonde and beautiful, and people underestimate her."

TAPPER: That's what Trump said to Stormy.

BASH: That's what Trump said to Stormy Daniels.

So, Trump is telling Stormy Daniels that she reminds him of Ivanka Trump. "The way he framed it, it did actually make perfect sense."

Do you want to comment on that?

SCARAMUCCI: Well, I mean, listen, I want to -- I want to be fair to him as well.

In a one-on-one setting -- I certainly don't want him to return to the presidency for so many different reasons. But in a one-on-one setting, he tries to be charming and he tries to melt the ice in the situation. So I could totally see him saying something like that.

And I think even people that he goes after, because he's a little insecure when he meets them face-to-face, he turns up the charm. So all of that is indicative to his personality. So, again, what she's saying comes across very true to me.

And I don't think you make up details like that, Dana.

TAPPER: So, Anthony, let me ask you, what do you think of the case in general? Do you think that prosecutors are doing an effective job of proving the actual crime that they're alleging?

Forget the encounter with Stormy Daniels. Forget the hush money payment to Stormy Daniels, neither of which are transgressions of the law. The question is whether or not he falsified business records in order to hide the hush money payments and, in doing so, was trying to interfere with the 2016 election.

Do you think the prosecutors have gotten -- have met that hurdle beyond a reasonable doubt?

SCARAMUCCI: OK, so, from the transcripts that I have read and the case that they have built, I believe that they have met that hurdle.

But, Jake, you and I have been around a long time. And we know there could be one or two people on the jury that, no matter what the prosecutors say, they will say that he hasn't met the hurdle. Go back to the O.J. case in the '95 time period.

So we will have to see the impartiality of this jury, and we will have to see what the rebuttal will be from the defense. Mr. Trump deserves his right to defend himself in court. But if you're just looking at the facts of the case, and you're asking yourself the question, was there an election interference in this case and was there a fraud that induced that election interference, I think that stuff is prima facie.

And so it'll be up to that jury to decide that, of course. Mr. Trump is entitled to the right to have a jury of his peers decide that. But since you're asking me my opinion, I will share it with you. Yes, I do think this is beyond the reasonable doubt.

TAPPER: So, the jury has been excused for a brief morning break. It is 11:23 a.m. in East Coast time.

[11:25:03]

Anthony Scaramucci, thank you so much for your time today.

We have been getting updates from inside the court in New York as Stormy Daniels recounted to the jury her version of the events leading up to this encounter with Donald Trump, including conversations that she had about her life in adult film, about Melania Trump, about her possible appearance on "Celebrity Apprentice," how she reminded Trump of his daughter Ivanka.

Much more of CNN's special coverage of Donald Trump's hush money cover-up trial ahead.

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[11:30:00]