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Stormy Daniels Testified About Alleged Sexual Encounter With Trump; Soon: Stormy Daniels Resumes Testimony In Trump Hush Money Trial. Aired 1:30-2p ET

Aired May 07, 2024 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[13:31:28]

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: We're following breaking news and the Donald Trump hush money, criminal trial. The adult film star, Stormy Daniels, is on the stand.

She described her evening with Trump back in 2006 in great detail. So much so, that at one point, Judge Merchan told the prosecution some of Daniels' more sexually graphic testimony was unnecessary. He urged them to move things along more quickly.

Joining us now, retired New York Queens County Supreme Court judge, George Grasso,

Judge. Thank you so much for joining us. I always appreciate your expertise.

You were in court this morning in New York. What do you make of that, when the judge told the prosecutors to dial it down on the details?

GEORGE GRASSO, RETIRED JUDGE, QUEENS COUNTY, NEW YORK SUPREME COURT: Well, I mean, it was some pretty intense testimony. She certainly did describe a -- rather vividly, a sexual encounter.

I think there was like a line. You know, she's got to testify to this truth of what, to the best of how recollection. If it happens to be so salacious then it happens to be salacious.

So it was a bit of a tight wire act, but the judge did what he needed to do. And the people did what they needed to do.

She was nervous though. And she was testifying, for the most part, very quickly. She had to be requested several times, Stormy Daniels, to slow down.

But all in all, it's very clear to the jury, at least from the perspective of Stormy Daniels, that in terms of what happens in October of 2016 in terms of a so-called hush money payments, that there's evidence out there now that there was something that a presidential candidate might want to try and hush up.

BLITZER: What's your sense, Judge, of how she's coming -- coming off to the jury? Are they listening intently? Is she coming off as credible?

GRASSO: Well, I'm of a mixed mind on that. I think she's coming cross as credible in some areas and maybe not so much in others. But we'll have to see what cross-examine -- cross-examination looks like.

So with respect to describing the initial meeting with Trump, the sexual encounter with Trump in his, as she testified to, penthouse suite, follow up contacts with Trump, reaching out to her on multiple times, according to her, about some kind of a possibility that she could appear on "The Apprentice."

I think that she's -- she's come across pretty credibly there. But now they're getting into the negotiations for the payment, the settlement where her story would not be public, would not be published.

And you know, she's going down the road where she trying -- where she is testifying. It's not about the money. It had nothing to do with the money. We'll see. We'll see how that hangs together.

But I have no doubt when cross-examination begins that the defense team is going to lay into that pretty ferociously.

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GRASSO: But we'll have to see both ends and then -- and then analyze it.

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BLITZER: And on that point of cross-examination, Judge, what else do you expect the defense to question her about?

GRASSO: Well, you know, they're probably going to want to try and somehow undermine the integrity of the whole deal that was going on in October.

[13:35:04]

They're probably going to want to see if they can drive wedges between her testimony of the deal and Keith Davidson, her attorney, who represented her in the case and testified extensively.

I imagine they're going to be looking to see if there are cracks between her and Davidson that they could ideally exploit in a way where they could try and make a case to the jury, you really can't believe either -- either of them.

I'm looking for things like that.

BLITZER: Well, we'll find out probably sooner rather than later. And all those are excellent points you make.

Judge George Grasso, thank you very much for joining us.

GRASSO: Thank you. BLITZER: And just ahead, a riveting day of testimony in the trial in New York. Well take a closer look at what it means for the case against Donald Trump.

Much more coming up after a quick break.

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[13:40:22]

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN HOST: Welcome back to CNN's especial live coverage of Donald Trump's criminal hush money trials.

Day 13, the day the biggest witness has gotten on the stand, Stormy Daniels, a moment that I was privileged to be inside the courtroom to watch as she testified in front of 12 jurors who will ultimately decide Donald Trump's fate here.

As for the former president, he sat at the defense table doing something that he doesn't normally do, paying close attention to the testimony. At times in his trial, we have seen him closing his eyes for a sustained period.

None of that was happening inside the courtroom this morning, as Stormy Daniels took the stand, someone that testified that she has not seen Donald Trump in person in 17 years, since the summer of 2007.

But she went into great detail about their interactions on that stand. The question is how it plays with the jurors.

I've got Paula Reid and Phil Mattingly here with me talking about all this as we are waiting for that testimony to resume.

She'll be back on the stand in moments. And still the prosecution asking her these questions.

I think a big question is, how this is going to come off to the jurors. Because as she was sitting there, she was talking about -- she was just trying to make fun of herself at points. She was laughing as she was giving her answers about her business.

She was talking about her interaction with Donald Trump, saying that he asked her questions that no one else had ever asked her, like whether there was a union for the adult film industry and whether they got residuals for that, and testing.

Things that she said that typically she doesn't get asked about when people find out what she does for a living.

PAULA REID, CNN CHIEF LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: I thought that was actually interesting that those were his curiosities about the adult film industry.

The thing is none of that actually speaks to the core of this case, which are allegations that Trump falsified 34 business records in an effort to help himself, as part of an effort to suppress this hush money story ahead of the 2016 election.

Nothing Stormy Daniels has said so far speaks to the criminal charges. But does answer the question of what exactly is it that Trump wanted suppressed after the "Access Hollywood" tape and a few days before the election?

Just as you guys were breaking inside court, she started to get to the hush money payment itself. She might provide more evidence for the case during that testimony. But so far, I mean, certainly, the most interesting day we've had in court.

COLLINS: Yes. And we expect her to be back on the stand any moment.

I mean, this was the first time, Phil, that Trump had tweeted or had posted about a witness on his way to court. He had found out who was going to testify.

Obviously, we knew that Stormy Daniels would probably be one of -- besides Michael Cohen, one of the witnesses he least wanted to see up there.

And it was just fascinating to watch his reaction as she was testifying. I mean, he kept tapping his attorneys on the arm. They kept objecting.

Something I should note, the judge himself sustained multiple lines of their questioning because he believed that Stormy Daniels was going into essentially in too much details at points.

But we really saw just how Trump was paying such close attention to her testimony.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN ANCHOR & CHIEF DOMESTIC CORRESPONDENT: Right. And I think when he un-posted untruths -- is that the right word for what he posted this morning -- which gave you a sense. But that gives you a good read on where his head was that going into this.

He seemed already agitated, posting something that could run afoul with the gag order that he's already run afoul of 10 times.

You knew that he wasn't exactly thrilled about what he was about to go through. And I think what we've heard from our reporters, and you being a reporter from being in the room, is his -- at least how he's acted or interacted with his lawyers, it seemed to convey that, to some degree.

Which I think makes it fascinating that the prosecutor clearly knew the parameters, right, in terms of the details, and clearly kept running up against and over that line repeatedly.

Which is why you saw so many objections and why you saw so many objections that were -- that were actually given to them, given to the defense team.

I think the reason why, though, very clearly, was to try and paint her as a very credible witness. Because why else would you know all of these details? Yes, this is carnal knowledge but, frankly, I could have done without hearing about this or reading about this morning.

But you wouldn't be able to go into that level of detail unless it actually happened. And laying that out in that detail, even if the judge says you're not supposed to, sets up what we're going to see this afternoon.

COLLINS: Yes.

MATTINGLY: Which is what matters.

COLLINS: So the level of information, what was really stunning, and it's helped. But also, I think the way she talked about Trump and the way she described him, Paula, it was as if he wasn't even in the room, that she was talking about him.

I mean, she talks about their first interaction. She -- she called him pompous. She said she believed he was an ass. She said she called him out on that on one of their first meetings. And the way she said his arrogant nature and how he was acting.

And at one point, she was describing an interaction they had where he was bragging about him being on a magazine cover and that she rolled it up and spanked him with it.

At that point, he kind of just grimaced on his face. It was -- it was essentially scowling as she continued to testify.

[13:45:00]

But it also just struck me that he never has to sit there and listen without being able to comment on someone speaking about him in a manner like that.

REID: Kaitlan, this is such a test for him. Yes, prosecutors called Stormy Daniels because she will help their case in some way.

But the greatest legal test that Stormy Daniels poses for Trump today is whether he can hold it gather at the end of court and not just go off on her and violate the gag order.

This is such a test. Because to your point, he is not used to being spoken about this way. He's not used to being in this position. This is something that's clearly getting under his skin. He was aggravated not only with the situation, but also with his defense attorneys.

So at the end of the day, the greatest legal threat that Stormy Daniels poses to Trump is that he's going to go off, violate the gag order, and that judge may have made good on that threat of jail.

COLLINS: Yes, that's a great question of how he will be able to restrain himself with this because clearly didn't want her to testify.

Paula Reid, Phil Mattingly, we'll get back to us as we we're discussing all of this and waiting for Stormy Daniels to get back on the witness stand any moment now as court is set to resume. We'll be following it all closely. We'll be right back after a quick break.

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[13:50:42]

BLITZER: Welcome back to our special live coverage of the Trump criminal hush money trial.

Very soon were expecting the adult film actress, Stormy Daniels, to return to the witness stand.

I want to bring back our panel to assess.

What -- what are you looking forward to as this trial is about to resume, Elie?

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: So when we left off, prosecutors were just getting into the part of Stormy Daniels story where now were in 2016. She has her story and she, through her lawyer, Keith Davidson, who we heard from earlier, our essentially shopping the story around.

And this is where it's going to get a little bumpier for prosecutors because already her testimony about our motivations have been a little bit contradictory.

She said at one point, I only wanted to tell my story. She said at another point, I didn't want it to come out. Later on, she ends up denying that she ever had sex with Donald Trump. She's now denied that denial.

So they're going to have to get through this terrain here. But what they just want to establish is she had this story, it's on the brink of the election happening in 2016, and there was this agreement in place to keep her silent.

And in her understanding, Donald Trump, even though she didn't negotiate it with Donald Trump, Donald Trump was the beneficiary.

BLITZER: She made some jokes during the course of her morning testimony. From a prosecutor standpoint, is that good or bad?

ELLIOT WILLIAMS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Both. Stop. They're both, right? Humor is very risky in a courtroom. It can humanize, as it can in real life. It can humanize a witness to the jurors.

But other than Stormy Daniels, every witness has appeared to be pretty somber. And the tone in the courtroom has been pretty consistent.

It is hard to know how jurors are going to read someone who's sort of wise cracking in humorous and so on, particularly with the sort of credibility attacks that are going to be coming quite soon, that the prosecutors are teaming up wand that the defense is going to bring.

How do they read a person who sort is of treating this incredibly serious matter lightly?

Now again, it might be it's something that's humanizing. But I -- here, just given how everything has gone, it really runs the risk of turning the jurors off.

BLITZER: You know, people have been talking about this Stormy Daniels relationship with Trump for years.

GLORIA BORGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes.

BLITZER: He continues to deny it ever happened.

BORGER: Right.

BLITZER: How does that affect his credibility?

BORGER: Well, that's -- that's the big question now. And I've been asking our lawyers over here what his lawyers would do about it. Because Trump is insisting on denying it. She's talking about it and giving excruciating detail about it. She's also talking about the hush money agreement.

And so why did she want hush money if there wasn't anything to hush about? So I'm not quite sure how her attorneys get around this.

Because -- unless they just decide not to pay attention to it and focus on the paperwork part of this. Because Donald Trump is adamant that he will not admit that this even occurred. And so it puts his lawyers in a very difficult position, I would think.

BLITZER: How worried or the Trump folks, especially the base, about this trial and how it could impact support for Trump going into the presidential election, especially among religious conservatives?

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I don't think they're that concern. If you see how the "Access Hollywood" tape played out back in 2016.

Donald Trump's base is pretty steadfast for the former president, particularly on something like this that they can paint as unfair, salacious, they don't want to talk about it, this is a sham trial, it's political, et cetera.

However, the concern is not actually what the base they think will turn up for Donald Trump no matter what. The concern is actually for those Independent voters.

No matter what side you're on, Democrat or Republican, this is going to be an incredibly tight election. Both sides believe that every single vote counts. Does this turn off Independent voters? Does it turn off suburban women?

We know that Donald Trump already has a problem with suburban women. If you are outlining, in excruciating, as you said, detail, the sexual acts with an adult film star, how does that impact the people going to the voting polls? That's somebody that you could see as your next president of the

United States?

Again, this is a very small group of voters in the middle. Democrats are still going to vote Democratic. Republicans, his base, are still going to go for Donald Trump.

But it's those other voters that they're trying to sway, that's where the real concern is for the Trump campaign.

BORGER: You know, there's a little irony here, because in 2016, the Trump campaign assumed that there would be a huge public outcry against Stormy Daniels and that it would kill the campaign. And the Access Hollywood tape would kill the campaign.

[13:55:03]

If that had occurred now, given what Trump has gone through and given the loyalty of his base, I wonder whether they would have had the same reaction.

It almost seems kind of quaint, you know, that this is the way they reacted in 2016. And now, in 2024, the cake is baked with Donald Trump. And I think Kristen's right that, you know, you have to worry about the Independent suburban women.

But for the rest of the Trump base, this isn't -- this isn't going to mean anything.

BLITZER: Interesting.

All right, guys, everybody standby.

We're going to have much more. Coming up, Stormy Daniels will be back on the stand within the next few minutes. We're back with the latest on the hush money criminal trial of the former president of the United States.

Much more after a quick break.

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