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CNN Live Event/Special

Cohen Expected to Testify Monday; Recap of Trump's Trial; Anna Cominsky is Interviewed about the Trump Trial. Aired 9:30-10a ET

Aired May 10, 2024 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:30:00]

JENNIFER RODGERS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: From the DA's office who put in all of the posts. I guess she's coming back. We may see more of that.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: There's always a tweet. There's always a tweet.

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: One person we know that is not going to be testifying, Karen McDougal.

BERMAN: Right.

SIDNER: Which I think that surprised a lot of people.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: (INAUDIBLE).

SIDNER: She was on the witnesses, but they decided, hey, we don't need to put her on.

BOLDUAN: Yes.

Jennifer Rodgers, Joey Jackson, great to see you guys. Thank you so much.

SIDNER: And thank you for joining us. This is CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

CNN's special coverage of the Donald Trump hush money trial continues right now.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Right now you are getting a live look at 100 Centre Street. We are coming on the air minutes after learning breaking news, setting the stage for the ultimate confrontation in Donald Trump's historic criminal trial. A person familiar with the case says that the prosecution intends to call Michael Cohen to the stand on Monday. Cohen, of course, is the former Trump attorney and personal fixer whose actions are at the very heart of this case.

Moments ago the former president of the United States walked past cameras and into that courtroom for the 15th day of his trial.

Back on the stand in moments is a very important witness. One who seemed to help both sides yesterday. A Trump White House insider who functioned as a courier for the checks at the center of this his case I'm Kaitlan Collins in New York. And you are watching CNN's special live coverage of Donald Trump's hush money trial.

JIM ACOSTA, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Jim Acosta in Washington.

Circle Monday on your calendars. That's now when we expect Michael Cohen to go under oath and tell the whole truth about his role in silencing Stormy Daniels. Cohen is the nucleus of the case. And whether a jury believes what he has to say may go a long way in determining if they convict or acquit him, that is Donald Trump, of 34 criminal counts.

In minutes, testimony picks up where it left off yesterday with Madeleine Westerhout, the former Trump Oval Office operations director. Westerhout is not exactly a household name, but she witnessed how Donald Trump had his hand in every aspect of his business, even from the White House. Westerhout gave emotional testimony, breaking down at points on the stand. She also claimed she saw Trump showering affection and even doting on his wife, she says, First Lady Melania, shining a different light on the defendant, who has spent much of this trial sneering as witnesses tell their stories.

Court ended Thursday with another Trump legal loss. The judge denying a motion to declare a mistrial, brushing aside the defense's claim that Stormy Daniels testimony prejudiced the jury against the former president.

CNN's covering every angle of this historic trial inside and outside of the courtroom. But let's go back to New York and Kaitlan Collins.

Kaitlan.

COLLINS: Yes, Jim, we are standing by waiting for the jury and, of course, the witness to get back on the stand inside that courtroom today as we are expecting this to start any moment now.

I've got CNN's Kristen Holmes and Paula Reid here with me in lower Manhattan outside of that courthouses as we wait for this to start.

The judge greeting Mr. Trump, as he does every morning, saying, good morning, Mr. Trump. A notable ending - or beginning because yesterday how court ended did not go so well for the Trump team as the judge was basically reprimanding them for how they'd been handling their defensive of this case.

But, Paula, on this news that Michael Cohen, we now know he is going to take the stand on Monday, I mean he is the last big blockbuster witness. And if we thought Trump was angry watching Stormy Daniels testify, it's hard to even imagine what it's going to be like when Michael Cohen takes the stand.

PAULA REID, CNN CHIEF LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Cohen's not just a witness in this case, he is now the witness in this case because up until now prosecutors have not established a direct link between these falsified business records and the defendant. Michael Cohen can provide that, but he is complicated. And this is where the defense is focusing almost all of their energy.

I get a lot of questions about why Todd Blanche, the lead attorney, isn't doing more of the cross-examinations. That's because he is solely focused on Michael Cohen, because this case will succeed or fail on whether the jury believes Michael Cohen.

And, of course, he's going to get up on the stand. Under direct examination he's going to explain this alleged conspiracy where he spoke with Trump and they agreed to this arrangement where he would be repaid this hush money and they would try to hide it.

Now on cross, though, they're going to bring up, not only his previous convictions for multiple offenses, including campaign finance violations related to this and lying to Congress, but also his out-of- court behavior, his relentless attacks, not only on Trump, but on the defense team.

I mean for years on his podcast, in his books, in almost every public appearance, he has shown animus towards the defendant. And they are really going to capitalize on that. So, this is - this will make or break the case.

COLLINS: Yes, I mean, he was even speaking the other day about his testimony. And I should note, Todd blanche is sitting with Trump and whispering to him as they are at the defense table with the other witness about to take the stand.

I mean, Kristen Homes, what have you heard about how they're kind of bracing for Michael Cohen to be on the stand and how Trump's going to respond to that.

[09:35:07]

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I think right now it's mostly prep on how to attack Michael Cohen. How can they find Twitter posts, as you said, obviously painting him as a liar, going through his past convictions. But it's also really making sure that their right-wing social media army is in place to go after Michael Cohen because Donald Trump is under a gag order, but his biggest supporters aren't. And they have millions of followers on social media. And a lot of this is being played out in the court of public opinion.

Remember, at the end of the day, they really do not believe, and that's Trump's team, that this is going to be an acquittal. Their best hope scenario right now is a hung jury. And that's what they are really hoping for, that they can actually get through to one juror.

Now, this being played out in a court of public opinion means the Donald Trump, whatever happens, is going to paint this as purely political, particularly if he is convicted. And that is what we're hearing from these legal experts and friends of Donald Trump's who are on the airwaves every single night talking about how this sham trial, that this is all done to embarrass the former president. This is a setup for that as well. And you're going to see these blatant attacks on Michael Cohen as part of that.

COLLINS: Yes, Trump seems to care about the public perception as much as, you know, what the actual verdict is here.

And, Elie Honig, Madeleine Westerhout may not be a household name, but she is setting the stage for Michael Cohen to take the stand because she was Trump's eyes and ears outside of the Oval Office. And what she testified about yesterday afternoon when I was inside that courtroom is about a meeting with Michael Cohen at the White House. And, of course, that is the meeting that he testified to Congress was where he talked about getting reimbursed and where his checks were with the president of the United States.

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Yes, exactly, Kaitlan, as we look forward to Michael Cohen's really make or break testimony on Monday, what the prosecution is going to do today is try to set building blocks in place to support Michael Cohen. As you said, when we resume court, Madeleine Westerhout will be on the stand.

Now, she was a special assistant to Donald Trump. She sat right outside the Oval Office and she had a lot of insider access. One of the things she has testified about is the all-important check. She testified that from time to time, during the early years of the Trump presidency, stacks of checks would arrive. She would bring them in. And then they would be returned to her signed.

Now, one thing she said about the checks that's important. She said, I believe there were invoices attached to some of the checks sometimes. Now, she didn't remember any specific check, but that piece of testimony tells you that Donald Trump had information about what the checks were for.

And if we combine the testimony of Madeleine Westerhout with another witness we heard yesterday, Rebecca Manochio, who works for the Trump Org., they gave us the whole flow of how these checks move. They started at Trump Tower in New York, were sent down to D.C., where Madeleine Westerhout would have them signed. And she would then route them back up to Trump Tower in New York.

Another important piece of Westerhout's testimony, she talked about the "Access Hollywood" tape. And she said that when that tape dropped about a month before the election, she said, "at the time I recall it rattled the RNC leadership." She did add though that in her view Donald Trump was actually less worried about it than other people around her.

And then to the all-important meeting, and Kaitlan referenced this, circle this date, folks, if you're following along at home. The February 5, 2017 meeting at the White House is going to be crucial. Michael Cohen is going to testify about this. This is the meeting where he is going to say he discussed this whole arrangement to pay back Stormy Daniels directly with Donald Trump. Madeleine Westerhout set the foundation for this. They showed her an email. She said, yes, the meeting happened. She doesn't know what was said, but she said, yes, the meeting happened.

One other thing yesterday. We heard from a witness from Harper Collins, a publishing company, and the prosecutors read to the jury an excerpt from one of Trump's books where he talks about how, I go out of my way for the people who are loyal to me in bad times. This woman, not anyone who has anything to do with the case, but this woman was very disloyal and now I go out of my way to make her life miserable. It looks like the prosecution is trying to explain to the jury the way Donald Trump treats people, like Michael Cohen and Stormy Daniels, who he views as disloyal.

Two other big developments just from the end of the day yesterday. The prosecution announced they will not be calling Karen McDougal. I think that's probably the right tactical call. They don't need to go back in time. Here we are on the brink of Michael Cohen.

And Donald Trump's team asked to allow Donald Trump, under the gag order, to make comments about Stormy Daniels now that her testimony is over. The judge said, no can do. I don't trust you to do that. And so that motion was denied, Kaitlan.

So, we'll throw it back to you at the courthouse. You can tell us what's happening on a rolling basis.

COLLINS: Yes, the judge said that Trump's track record is well-known, and that's why he wasn't amending that gag order.

Elie, thank you for catching us up to speed.

There's a lot of moving parts here. Right now Madeleine Westerhout is back on the stand. We're told that she smiled in the direction of (INAUDIBLE) several times yesterday as she (INAUDIBLE) testifying. She is definitely not a hostile witness to Donald Trump. She's someone who views him favorably, wrote about him favorably. Right now the jury is coming into the courtroom. And so we'll see what the jury thinks of her testimony, Paula, because yesterday she did make some - some - some - have some testimony that seemed like it could benefit both the prosecution and the defense.

[09:40:03]

One with the defense, obviously, she was saying really positive things about Donald Trump's relationship with Melania Trump in light of the "Access Hollywood "tape, but she was also testifying about how closely Trump paid attention to his money. The FedEx invoices that she handled, which were the checks coming to the White House that he signed for Michael Cohen, and also about just Michael Cohen himself being at the White House.

REID: Yes, and those are going to be two really significant issues for Susan Necheles, the defense attorney, to focus on during cross because these are issues that actually speak to the charges, the falsifying of business records.

And remember you have Jeff McConney testifying that, yes, Trump was very detail-oriented about everything that happened in the Trump Organization until 2017. So, prosecutors have to contend with the fact that defense attorneys will say, yes, he was evolved in everything down to the paperclips until he went to the White House. He was the leader of the free world. And then in their defense they're going to argue that they were trying to put a wall between the Trump Organization and the White House because there were so much outrage about whether he going to profit from being inside the White House.

So, her testimony right there, that can be something that prosecutors can seize on and say, yes, but she was closer to him than Jeff McConney was in 2017. And she says he was still detail oriented. He was still paying attention to the invoices. That's really critical for prosecutors, in addition to, of course, confirming Michael Cohen's testimony about being there, because pretty much everything Michael Cohen says is going to have to be verified with someone else or something else.

COLLINS: Yes. And she had a desk that sat right up against the Oval Office.

REID: Yes.

COLLINS: I mean she was as close to Trump as you could get, Jim Acosta.

ACOSTA: Yes, she sure was. I mean she had access that a lot of people did not have in that White House.

Kaitlan, thank you very much.

Joining me here in Washington, Michael Moore, Jeff Zeleny, Dana Bash. Elie made his way over. And you got here in plenty of time. It was - you didn't break a sweat.

HONIG: It's a long commute.

ACOSTA: Along with Elliot Williams, former Manhattan district attorney and prosecutor, Karen Friedman Agnifilo. Karen is council for a firm that represents Michael Cohen. She has no contact with Cohen, does not work on his case. There are no restrictions on what she can say about his case. Disclaimer. Disclaimer. Disclaimer.

Elie, let me go - and, Dana, I'm sorry, but we're outnumbered here. The lawyer outnumber the political reporters here.

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: That's - that's actually good.

ACOSTA: Yes, that's probably a good thing.

BASH: It's -

ELLIOT WILLIAMS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: It's the way the Lord intended it.

ACOSTA: We'll go - we'll go to the experts for - I - here's an update.

Necheles begins by asking Westerhout about 2016, while she was working for the RNC. Let's start talking about that there. I mean that is - and, Dana and Jeff, you guys can weigh in too. This was a highly critical point in the campaign. Westerhout, as I recall, was with the RNC folks. She confirms the RNC and the Trump campaign worked extremely closely together. She was sort of, you know, under the wing of Reince Priebus and Sean Spicer at that time. I recall she was reported as having cried on election night that Donald Trump won the presidency, but then became very much a Trump person - Trump inside person.

BASH: Cried not happy tears.

HONIG: I was going to say, that kind of thing.

ACOSTA: Not happy tears, exactly.

HONIG: Yes.

ACOSTA: So, helpful -

HONIG: Yes.

ACOSTA: Witness for which side?

HONIG: For the prosecutors in that - in that respect. Because one of the key themes of the prosecution case is that when the "Access Hollywood" tape hit a month before the election, that said panic through the Trump campaign. And then that gave them all the more reason when, a week or so later, when Stormy Daniels emerges with her potential allegations, they have more incentive to pay her off.

And the testimony thus far has been interesting because what Westerhout said is, there was panic inside the RNC, but then she qualified that in two ways. Once, she said, Donald Trump himself was less worried than others, not unworried but less worried. And two, she says, and you get - you all know this was true, Trump was not the RNC's preferred candidate for much of the time.

ACOSTA: No.

HONIG: So, I mean, I'm interested in what your recollections are.

BASH: We - yes, we were there. We remember that very well.

ACOSTA: Yes.

HONIG: Yes.

BASH: And, if I may, what's happening right now in the courtroom is that Necheles, the Trump attorney, is connecting her and having her explain the connection and the way that the RNC and the campaign worked together. Particularly his travel schedule. They're having -

ACOSTA: They were working hand in hand in that.

BASH: They're working hand in hand. And she said, whenever the president-elect was traveling, yes. Yes meaning that the RNC and the Trump campaign then were putting his schedule together.

ACOSTA: And, Elliot, that's important - this is all important, as Elie brings up "Access Hollywood," because this - this helps establish for the prosecution why they were sort of panic stricken at that point inside Trump world, inside that inner circle, might have wanted to suppress the Stormy Daniels story. It will be interesting to see how the defense pokes holes or tries to poke holes in this.

WILLIAMS: Yes. Yes. Why they were panic stricken -

ACOSTA: There's an update right there. The jury is shown the list of Trump contacts provided by Rhona Graff. Yes.

WILLIAMS: And why that is relevant to this point. Why they're panic- stricken, but also that there was communication between the White House and the RNC. That those of us around this table know that the White House is also a political operation. It's not just a government entity. Of course, you have people who were running for office, and they have to support the president's reelection. Well, part of that involves communication with the Republican National Committee and donors and so on. And these questions of whether the former president and his campaign were concerned about the impact of some of this behavior and some news of it getting out is entirely relevant and they have to establish that there's some link there.

[09:45:00]

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And the reason she is relevant, because she was the assistant to Katie Walsh, who was the assistant to Reince Priebus. The reason that matters is, at the time she was running the Trump transition at Trump Tower, was escorting people up and down. So, she had a ringside seat to this.

But interestingly yesterday she was talking about the meeting of Michael Cohen. She was taking down his information. She was going to clear him in through Secret Service for that meeting in February. Jim, and I think you and I both remember that meeting. It was just three weeks after Trump was sworn into office.

ACOSTA: Yes.

ZELENY: Michael Cohen was suddenly back in the West Wing. He was having this meeting in the Oval Office, which was private. We didn't know what it was about at the time. But that's what her importance here is. She was basically the Oval Office version of Rhona Graff. And these contacts are people -

ACOSTA: And they're - and right here they're establishing the gatekeeping that (INAUDIBLE) actually performed, yes.

ZELENY: Exactly. So, it was the handoff, from the Trump Organization and Trump Tower to him being here at the Oval Office. And she was at the center of all of that in a very friendly way.

ACOSTA: Yes. Yes, the Trump Organization gave Madeleine basically those contacts that Trump would be talking to from time to time. The contacts included people Trump might be interested in speaking to, to invite them to the White House or something. Very interesting.

KAREN FRIEDMAN AGNIFILO, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: I think - I think they're trying to -- the - this is cross-examination, right?

ACOSTA: Right. AGNIFILO: So, this is Trump's lawyer. I think they're trying to neutralize the fact that Stormy Daniels' name was in - and contact information was in Rhona Graff's contacts. And so the word might there is what I think -

ACOSTA: Ah.

AGNIFILO: The defense attorney wanted to get in there to show he might be interested in speaking to them. It doesn't necessarily mean he had contact with these individuals. They're just trying to put some doubt in to the jury and discredit Stormy Daniels.

ACOSTA: All right. And right now, as we've been saying, a Trump White House inside, Madeleine Westerhout, on the stand under cross- examination.

Again, the big breaking news this morning, Michael Cohen will get his turn under oath on Monday. You thought Stormy Daniels was something in terms of testimony. That is going to be one to watch.

Obviously, you're watching CNN's special live coverage coming up in just a few moments.

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[09:51:37]

COLLINS: Welcome back to CNN's special live coverage. I'm Kaitlan Collins in New York.

And right now, inside that courtroom that you are looking at, Trump's attorney, Susan Necheles, is cross-examining Madeleine Westerhout. She's a Trump White House insider. And the line of questioning so far is trying to make dents in the prosecution's case about how Trump operated from the Oval Office.

Joining me now is Anna Cominsky, the director of the Criminal Defense Clinic at New York Law School.

Anna, it's great to have you as, you know, Susan Necheles, who is this famed defense attorney here in New York, is up questioning Madeleine Westerhout. And right now there is a break as the juries - or the lawyers are talking to the judge as they're questioning her about this. And essentially they're drilling in on one thing because yesterday in the courtroom they showed this email. It was a picture of Donald Trump boarding Air Force One for the first time on the front page of "The New York Times." And Trump wanted it sent to Allen Weisselberg, of course the former Trump Org CFO, who is now in prison after he just recently took a guilty plea.

I just wonder what you make of how the defense has been doing so far, specifically with Madeleine Westerhout.

ANNA COMINSKY, DIRECTOR, CRIMINAL DEFENSE CLINIC AT NY LAW SCHOOL: Well, so, I actually think they've been doing a very good job with her. First of all, it's always good for the defense to end the day where they're the ones doing the questioning. And that's exactly how they ended the day yesterday, right. So they left the jury with their questions in mind.

In addition, it's really significant to note that, you know, we had Stormy Daniels' testimony where she talked about a sexual encounter, an alleged sexual encounter with Trump, where it made it seem almost as if she really didn't want to go through with it. Not something that's good in front of the jury. And now we have a young woman who's testifying about how much she liked Trump, how nice he was to her, what a good boss he was to her. And so they're getting all of that out, and that's really significant and powerful testimony for them.

COLLINS: Yes, how does that work with the prosecution? Because, obviously, she's a prosecution witness. She's here under a subpoena. She made that clear as she took the stand yesterday. And so she's their witness to tie, you know, to corroborate Michael Cohen, that, yes, he was at the White House, but also to talk about the links with Allen Weisselberg. But clearly the defense seems to agree that she's helpful to them.

COMINSKY: Yes, I mean, I think, you know, listen, for the prosecution, they need to keep calling witnesses that show that Trump was involved when it came to these documents. And so here is potentially a witness who can provide some of that information, right? She has testified to some of his attention to detail. And they really need to get that out.

COLLINS: If you're a defense attorney and you're in the courtroom yesterday, as the judge, which I should note, the jury was not in the room. They'd already left. The judge basically delivered this blistering assessment of how Susan Necheles, the attorney up right now, how she handled the Stormy Daniels direct examination, that she didn't object more, and he said he couldn't understand for the life of him why she didn't. He kept saying her name over and over again, Ms. Necheles, Ms. Necheles, Ms. Necheles.

I mean, if you're the defense attorney, how do you feel when you're leaving the courtroom that day?

COMINSKY: Listen, defense attorneys feel beat up all the time, OK. It's a - it's a thankless job. And so, as an experienced trial attorney, I'm sure that she, you know, felt how she feels a lot of days leaving court, which is, I'm going to fight another day.

[09:55:07]

You know, objections are really hard because, on the one hand, defense attorneys have to make objections to preserve the record, right? To preserve the appeal. They've got to do that. And in addition, they need to make objections to the extent that they want to keep things away from the jury, things that shouldn't be in front of the jury for their consideration.

On the other hand, as we know, objections themselves can really highlight what's being provided to the jury. And so I imagine that she was sitting there doing a cost benefit analysis of, when should I object and when should I. And that is an in the moment decision she has to make. And it's hard.

COLLINS: Yes, I mean, that is an understatement for sure.

Anna Cominsky, thank you for that.

Right now Susan Necheles is back at the podium and she is questioning Madeleine Westerhout right now about Trump's travel schedule when he was inside the White House. We are reading these live updates from inside the courtroom as there is a lot of objections right now. The attorneys have been at the bench I think three times already this morning. More in a moment as you are watching CNN's special live coverage of Donald Trump's hush money trial.

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