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CNN Live Event/Special

Now, Michael Cohen Testifies About Working for Trump; Now, Michael Testifies About Contacts With David Pecker; Now, Michael Cohen Testifies About Trump's 2016 Campaign. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired May 13, 2024 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:00:03]

KAITLAN COLLINS: And Michael Cohen would acknowledge, and still I continue to work for him for essentially what he's saying there, this transactional relationship that he clearly benefited from.

But the jury is also going to hear from Michael Cohen about everything that he did for Trump, not just on legal matters or invoices. He testified to Congress that he made it estimated 500 threats on Donald Trump's behalf. When Trump was running for re-election, Michael Cohen reached out to his high school to the colleges that he went to and threatened them with legal action if they somehow released Donald Trump's grades to the public. I mean, he went to those kinds of lengths.

He wasn't doing like actual legal work for Donald Trump. He was basically threatening people with legal action on his behalf. And Michael Cohen is saying, if reporting angered Trump that he would either express their need to redact or take the article down, or we would file an action against them. I mean, he went after schools, media outlets, anyone who would say anything damaging about Donald Trump.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Cohen says, I would say so, when he was asked if he was aggressive, not all the time, period, often. Wow.

COLLINS: I mean, this was their relationship, and I think this could actually be powerful for the jury to hear from Michael Cohen Everything that he did on Donald Trump's behalf I mean. Yes, he's aggrieved and he went to prison and he lied to Congress, but he also did work for him for a decade.

COOPER: There is something about a witness who's willing to expose how awful they were in front of a jury. I mean, a jury certainly, I would assume, would take that into account. The jury is watching intently, volleying between the prosecutor and Michael Cohen as he testifies. Some are taking notes. Cohen says interacting with the press was a portion of his job.

PAULA REID, CNN CHIEF LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: He has to acknowledge his past, because other witnesses have already talked about it to the jury. That was their introduction to Michael Cohen. They're likely familiar with him, right, from press reports, but that's how he's been introduced in this case.

Now, Cohen said, he pushed positive stories about Trump within the media. He has to atone not only for his previous conduct, but also for his guilty pleas, his comments about Trump. He has to be the one to introduce all of this to the jury now. He has no choice but to get out in front of this and a cop to this. Otherwise, his credibility is going to be shot.

COOPER: And, Kristen Holmes, if there was an article that caused him displeasure, I would speak to them. Cohen's office was ultimately moved about 50 or 60 feet from Trump's office in Trump Tower. Again, this is all critical to try to establish what the nature of their relationship, Kristen, was with each other.

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Anderson. One of the things I think is the most interesting of all of this is going back to that line where he said he would feel like he was on top of the world just for that small pat on the back. And he was willing to do anything for the former president. As you've noted, the idea that he's putting out there that he might have done all of these terrible things, he has to do that.

Remember what we've heard from some of these other witnesses, essentially, at one point, one witness saying that Michael Cohen was sad he might not get his Christmas bonus. At one point, another witness saying, they told Mr. Trump, Michael Cohen would do anything for you, he cares about you so much. They're going to have to paint out exactly who Michael Cohen is because of what we have heard over and over again from these various witnesses.

But the other part of this that I want to point out, you know, we talk a lot about Donald Trump's relationship with Todd Blanche, with his legal team now. When you talk about what Michael Cohen was doing, that's the kind of stuff that Donald Trump believes that an attorney should be doing. Even though it wasn't legal action, even though it wasn't in court necessarily, he believes that they should be out there, aggressive, you know, strong-arming people.

That is not exactly the kind of attorneys he has now. He has court attorneys, people who are going to follow the law, go through these questions, they've had this practice before. They're not the Michael Cohens of the world. But that is who Donald Trump wants by his side, this kind of rabid bulldog. So, what we're seeing now is what exactly this relationship looked like, and just how close they really were, Anderson.

COOPER: Cohen said he'd speak to Trump in person or on a cell phone. Mr. Trump never had an email address, Cohen says. Also, one of our observers in the court is saying that Michael Cohen is more visibly relaxed now on the stand, occasionally chuckling at things he says. I mean, Cohen said he'd get Trump through others like Rhona Graff or Keith Schiller. We have not heard from Keith Schiller, the bodyguard, obviously, in this trial. Rhona Graff has testified.

But to your point, Kaitlan, he is experienced on the witness stand. He has gone through a lot of this before. COLLINS: Right. And it is completely fair to raise questions on his credibility, how he'll do under cross examination. We don't know. Michael Cohen certainly has had no shortage of things to say about Donald Trump over the last several years, and he just is experienced in this. I mean, he went up against Trump's allies. You heard Lanny Davis saying they were joking, which is going to be worse, the cross- examination by Todd Blanche, or the cross-examination he got from House Republicans, who were the fiercest advocates for Donald Trump at that time?

COOPER: Cohen says of Trump, he knows too many people have gone down as a direct result of having emails that prosecutors can use in the case. Hoffinger clarifies with Cohen, going down, you mean getting in some sort of trouble? Yes, ma'am, Cohen responds.

COLLINS: This is the other thing that Michael Cohen will be able to testify to, is we've talked about the documents and the direct links to Donald Trump is, Donald Trump has a history of not using email for what he just cited there.

[10:05:08]

He can speak to that. He also just started texting maybe a year-and-a- half ago. Donald Trump never texted before that, and so that was kind of a famous thing.

He'll also be able to testify about the way Trump conducted himself, that he wouldn't directly give an order, but he would indirectly do it. And that is what Michael Cohen says was the issue with these Stormy Daniels payments.

I think another point is the way that Michael Cohen came into Trump's orbit is he was willing to do whatever Trump asked him to do. That is still the similar tactic that Trump uses with hiring attorneys to this day. He basically has people who join his legal team because they're willing to do whatever he asked them to do.

COOPER: And Cohen says he didn't need an appointment to see Trump in his office again. The more jurors believe that Cohen had this very intimate relationship with Trump and, you know, they shared things that they didn't share with other people, the more they may believe what Cohen says about whatever Trump told him about how this billing would be done. Mr. Trump had an open door policy.

COLLINS: Remember, jurors have only heard horrible things about Michael Cohen leading up to this. They heard that he was the fixer because he broke things first, that he was prone to exaggeration, that he was a bully to Stormy Daniels, his publicist, that Keith Davidson thought he was a jerk. They have a picture in their mind of a not nice guy. So, the idea that he is in there, visibly relaxed, answering these questions, laughing at himself as he's telling these stories, is clearly part of Michael Cohen's strategy.

COOPER: He just said on the stand that it was part of his job to keep Trump informed, a requirement, when he would task you with something, he would then say, keep me informed, let me know what's going on, Cohen says, of Trump, again, implying that Michael Cohen would not be out freelancing stuff, that he would be checking in with Trump repeatedly.

REID: Yes, and sort of underscoring what several witnesses have said, which is that Trump was involved in everything, right? He knew everything that was going on at the Trump Organization, down to the paperclips on the files. But I will also caveat that Jeff McConney testified that all of that changed in 2017. This is when these documents were allegedly falsified. And Michael Cohen did visit the White House and he will testify to that meeting that he had with Trump in February 2017. That is really going to be one of the most critical parts of his testimony.

Now he says, as soon as you had a result, an answer, you could go straight back to him and tell him, especially if it was a matter that was troubling to him, of course, foreshadowing the hush money payments that are going to be of great significance to then-Candidate Trump. So, all of this setting up what will happen later on during the time of question in 2016.

COOPER: It is interesting to hear because again, this is unusual that somebody would be communicating so closely with, you know, an attorney on some of the mundane details of something. If the jury believes this, it surely does go to this idea of Michael Cohen would know what was in Trump's mind about certain things. Hoffinger asked whether Trump was a micromanager by the work of the Trump Organization. Yes, ma'am, Cohen says.

COOPER: And this is all backed up also by his testimony to Congress. I mean, this is exactly what he testified to then, that he was a penny pincher and a micromanager, and that Donald Trump wanted to be kept abreast of everything.

And it's also something that people who worked for him in the White House have testified to, Hope Hicks and Madeleine Westerhout, the level of detail of things that he paid attention to. And so obviously they'll seek to do that and to give this impression to the jurors that even if there isn't that, you know, Trump was the one who selected the menu option, that this was legal expenses, that he still was connected to it because he was involved in every conversation, especially about things that he cared about.

COOPER: It was fantastic working for him, especially during those ten years, an amazing experience in many, many ways. Cohen says.

Jake, what's interesting, of course, this goes against so many accounts of people who worked with Trump in the White House in terms of, you know, him not showing interest in an intelligence briefing. But it clearly, the testimony here, is when it came to matters of the pocketbook, when it came to matters that affected the Trump Organization, he was very involved. Cohen says there were great times. There were several less than great times, but for the most part, I enjoyed the responsibilities that were given to me, Jake.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: Yes. And Cohen says he would address Trump as boss. And Mr. Trump, to hear Michael Cohen tell it, working for Donald Trump was fun and one of the thrills of his life yes. He acknowledges that there were less than great times as well, but he also talks about the great times.

Joining us now, two new attorneys to add to our law firm, George Conway and Tim Parlatore. George. What concerns might you have as somebody who thinks that Donald Trump is guilty of crimes, You, I'm talking about? What concerns might you have about Michael Cohen's credibility and are they surmountable?

GEORGE CONWAY, CONSERVATIVE LAWYER AND BIDEN DONOR: Well, the concern I have is that, you know, he's got to keep his cool. I don't think -- I mean, I think the thing about this is that the -- about what's happened in this case, is that the government has essentially pre- corroborated Michael Cohen in a lot of ways.

[10:10:00]

So, the burden on Cohen and the burden on the prosecution on how it elicits testimony from Cohen is reduced.

And at the same time, because I don't really see what the alternative scenario that the defense will be arguing is an alternative explanation of this series of facts, and I don't see what that is yet. I think that they're not -- I don't think they're going to be able to do much damage showing that Cohen is lying about the facts of this case. That said, they're going to try to show that he has lied everywhere else.

TAPPER: In fact, the prosecution getting that out right here, Susan Hoffinger with the district attorney's team saying, asking Cohen whether he would sometimes lie for his then boss, Donald Trump. Yes, ma'am. Cohen says.

Tim Parlatore as somebody on the other side, perhaps of, of your view of this case, what do you think of what George just said, the idea that so much of this has been pre-corroborated, that that takes some of the pressure off the prosecution in terms of the credibility of Michael Cohen? Cohen says, by the way, it's fair. to describe his, him as having been Trump's fixer. The only thing that was on my mind, Cohen says, was to accomplish the task to make him happy.

TIM PARLATORE, FORMER TRUMP ATTORNEY: Well, here's the problem is, what they've done is they pre-corroborated a lot of the surrounding facts. And you got to remember, this is a case where most of the facts are not in dispute. But the key disputed facts are the elements of the crime. And that's the part that they have no corroboration for, as to what was Trump's personal knowledge of those specific entries and what was his intent behind those specific entries as far as concealing something else.

And so, all of the kind of atmospherics, yes, those are corroborated, but those are not really in dispute. It's the elements of the crime that there's really not any corroboration for other than Michael Cohen's testimony.

TAPPER: Right now, prosecutors are going over cell phones and landlines that Cohen used while at Trump Organization. I'm assuming that this is to show phone calls, although the content of the calls is not going to be introduced, as evidenced, at least in a factual way. Cohen says he consented to a request from the district attorney's office to turn over his cell phones. Obviously, we all remember when the raid on Michael Cohen's office happened, way back, and what a shock that was, anyway.

KASIE HUNT, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, it was a shock at the time, presaged so much.

TAPPER: Well, to raid an attorney's office is a very strong, strong move given the attorney/client privilege and all that.

HUNT: Right. And that was the break, right, between Donald Trump and Michael Cohen, like the really hard break came around that raid of his offices. It does also kind of give you some of the -- it seems like we're going for some of the texture and the way that Cohen interacted that we haven't focused in on the fact that, you know, Donald Trump didn't have -- I guess, Anderson and Kaitlin were talking about it, didn't have an email address.

The piece of this that, that it seems like you're alluding to that they, they really need to prove is we're probably going to hear Michael Cohen say, I told Donald Trump, about these payments and there doesn't seem to be anyone else in the system who can say that they were there. What we do have is this, you know, set of atmospherics that it seems to me, Elie, that that's what the prosecutors are going through right now.

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: That's exactly right. I see three themes emerging so far to bring everyone up to speed. Here we are 45 minutes or so into the direct examination. First of all, Donald Trump was deeply involved in the spending. He would review these invoices, he would say, no, pay him 20 percent. We can see where that's going to come into play with Stormy Daniels later.

Second of all, Michael Cohen exists outside the formal structures of Trump world. When he started, he wasn't formally with the Trump Organization. Later with the campaign, you all know, he wasn't technically with the campaign. And in the White House, he was never technically with the White House, yet there he is, always sort of circulating around doing Donald Trump's bidding.

Third, the prosecutors have begun to, as we say, pull the sting, to front the fact that, yes, when you're with Donald Trump, you lied, you bullied, that all has to come out on direct examination before the defense lawyers get to it on cross. And now they're setting the baseline here for some of these phones, because, obviously, phone records, recordings and texts are going to become crucial later.

TAPPER: So, we've been talking about the body language and the personal dynamics between Michael Cohen and Donald Trump, which are, of course, significant. And we're told that Michael Cohen, his eyes are occasionally darting over in the direction of Trump. Cohen is saying he was, quote, spending a significant amount of time with Mr. Trump, and Trump ultimately agreed to his contact numbers being synced to Cohen's cell phone. That way, when he traveled, if he needed to get somebody on the phone, Cohen had the number.

George Conway, the idea that Michael Cohen's phones include all of Donald Trump's contacts so that Cohen can do whatever Trump wants him to do when they're on the road, what's the significance of that going to be, do you think?

[10:15:04]

CONWAY: Well, it just shows that he was, in fact, the fixer. I mean, he was the, the guy he handed the dirty jobs to, the jobs that he wasn't willing to give to other people.

TAPPER: More than 30,000 contacts in that phone account, according to records shown.

HUNT: Can you imagine turning that kind of information over to someone else? Like I guess I'm not --

JAMIE GANGEL, CNN SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT: Especially Donald Trump. Look, for Donald Trump to do that. He trusts him, right?

HUNT: It's an incredible amount of privacy you're giving up to --

TAPPER: But here's the attorney Susan Hoffinger saying, do you know someone named David Pecker, and Michael Cohen says, I do. That's presumably one of the contacts in his phone. David Pecker, the former publishing magnate of tabloid enterprises, such as the National Enquirer, which is tangentially part of this case, John King, given the Karen McDougal payments and the other catch and kill episode with the doorman alleging falsely that Donald Trump had sired a child out of marriage. Cohen says he knew Pecker before he knew Trump, they had mutual friends and met at a function on Long Island.

JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: So, you're trying to prove that, number one, Remember David Pecker's testimony, I don't want anything to do with the payment to I think he said porn star, I'd say adult film actress. You can choose your term. That's where we are. This case requires a lot of conversations, taking you to places you'd rather not go. But you're trying to prove that this was not a one-off, this happened many times, that there were a group of people who helped Donald Trump clean up messes.

And, you know, Pecker's testimony was that this happened in other cases and so they're trying to say, you know, so that, do not be surprised, that Donald Trump, there's a lot of bad actors around Donald Trump, people you might not think are great people, people you might not want to babysit your children, or sit in church or temple with but this is what happened. They're just trying to introduce all these characters and the connections between them.

TAPPER: And so Michael Cohen just testified that sometimes he would communicate with David Pecker using the Signal encrypted app. Cohen, depending upon the matter, sometimes we thought that encryption and not having the event. Traceable would be beneficial. And just for folks out there who don't have Signal -- we should note Alina Habba, the other attorney for Trump, is sitting in the front row, appears to be taking notes. Signal is basically a way so that you can either text or phone somebody, and supposedly, it cannot be penetrated, and if you set the thing to disappear, the record of it just vanishes forever. So, you cannot -- there will not be a record of you having spoken to David Pecker.

KING: Unlike Oliver North, there's not an email.

GANGEL: Can I just go back to something central in Donald Trump's life, and that is money, and that we've heard 20 cents on the dollar. What happened here was the opposite of 20 cents on the dollar. We've already heard testimony that, in fact, in paying Michael Cohen, he doubles it or gets it to where it would cover taxes, which is against everything Donald Trump likes to do, but also evidence of covering it up.

HONIG: It's interesting. It's 300 something cents on the dollar, right? Because Michael Cohen lays out $130,000 for Stormy Daniels, ultimately gets repaid $420,000. I think it's exactly what the prosecution is going to argue.

I think the defense side argument is going to be, Michael Cohen saw a chance to make some money. He had his hand in the cookie jar. He helped himself to this structure where he made a lot more money. And he did it sort of, you know, without Donald Trump, of course, being in on it. Would Donald Trump willingly overpay by that much, given what we know about him? I can see that argument either way.

CONWAY: He signed the checks.

TAPPER: Mr. Parlatore, let me just ask you, because one of the things you note is that the only person who is going to testify about the alleged crime, the falsification of the hush money payments, and Hoffinger is saying right now to Michael Cohen, prior to Mr. Trump announcing his run for the presidency, are you aware of AMI, that's the tabloid kingdom, ever paying to suppress stories? Cohen said, no, ma'am. Here's Hoffinger trying to establish that this was done for his presidential race, not for his personal life. Cohen says he also communicated with Dylan Howard, who was the editor-in-chief of the National Enquirer, who worked for Pecker.

But we're talking about Allen Weisselberg, who's at Rikers right now, the former CFO for Trump. He theoretically could testify. I assume that he has just indicated that he won't.

PARLATORE: You know, he's an interesting witness, because if they bring him, I think everybody is wondering what he's going to say, which side he'll take, there's nothing preventing the prosecution from bringing him in, except for fear of what he's going to say.

TAPPER: For fear he might contradict Cohen?

PARLATORE: Correct. Because he could plead the Fifth, but they could give him a grant of immunity. There's nothing preventing them from bringing him in. And so if they don't bring him in, I think that the defense has a very strong argument to get what's called a missing witness charge, where the judge will instruct the jury that the fact that he was not called is something that they can hold against the prosecutors and presume that his testimony would have been unfavorable to their case.

TAPPER: George, what do you think of that?

CONWAY: Well, it was unfavorable. It would have been unfavorable. And why doesn't Trump call him?

PARLATORE: And the reason for that is because the Constitution says, you don't have to.

[10:20:00]

The defense does not have to put on a case. They don't have an affirmative duty. The prosecution must prove the case beyond a reasonable doubt. So, no, there's no missing witness charge that the defense didn't call it. Missing witness charge only goes against the prosecution.

HONIG: And, by the way, there's a debate playing out in court very much like the one we just saw with Tim and George. Prosecutors are worried, rightly, because I hate missing witness charges, right? You don't want the jury being instructed what Tim just said, right? Defense lawyers love them, prosecutors hate them.

Prosecutors wanted to put Allen Weisselberg's severance agreement with the Trump Org in evidence so they could say, look, he was paid, I think, it's $2 million. He had a non-disparagement agreement. I don't think that can overcome a subpoena. But prosecutors want to be able to explain to the jury. And the judge said, no, I'm not letting you put that agreement in.

GANGEL: He also, my understanding is, has not been fully paid for that. Maybe he's gotten a million. And let's remember, this is a man who went to Rikers not once but twice for Donald Trump, but it does seem look we've heard in court there seems to be some discussion underway about bringing him in, in some way, even if he only takes the Fifth.

TAPPER: All right. Let me throw it back to Anderson in New York. Anderson?

COOPER: Jake, thanks. I want to bring in Criminal Defense Attorney Arthur Aidala. Arthur, as defense attorney, I'm sure you've had a lot of clients who have a checkered past or clients who have lied on the stand in other cases. How do you handle that as an attorney?

ARTHUR AIDALA, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, you know, Anderson, you, you admit what you can't deny but you deny what you can't admit. Meaning you have to admit, you know, you've been convicted, you have to admit to everything that's gone on, but you can't admit so much so that you're worthless. You're worthless. So it's a real balancing test about credibility.

I will tell you being here, I was inside the court courthouse, not the courtroom, but the whole building, I know this sounds like a little bit of an exaggeration, but it's really a buzz. It's really like you could feel it from the court officers, the clerks who I know because they know that today is the day.

I mean, what we discussed last week was up until today, if the prosecutor should have rested, the case would have to be dismissed before it even went to the jury. Michael Cohen is what ties Trump to the bookkeeping and to the bookkeeping in light for a furtherance of a crime. I don't know what else is going around here except a block away is the Menendez trial. So, there's a lot of activity here in Lower Manhattan here, Anderson.

COOPER: So, just in terms of, you know, Cohen's testimony, how essential is it? I mean, obviously, prosecutors would like there to be some written documentation that would back up Michael Cohen's claim that Donald Trump, you know, was in on it, knew how this was being filed. But it is essential that Cohen somehow convinced jurors that Donald Trump knew about how this payment was being filed in the system.

AIDALA: Yes. And the word you used is the perfect word, essential. It's necessary. It's what satisfies the elements of intent and they have to prove knowledge that Donald Trump knew about it.

You know, we heard about one of the other bookkeepers talking about a pull-down menu where different expenses would be listed in that pull- down menu. One of the words was legal. Cohen has got to be able to say that there was some conversation, there was some connection that Trump knew about that and knew how it was going to be listed and that they were doing it for the election. So, they were doing it to violate state election laws, federal election laws, or some sort of tax laws. So, he's vital.

I mean, I'm reading the testimony that's coming out so far. I think as a prosecutor, I would have led a little bit more about his criminal past. They did not do that, but they have to do that. They have to take as much air out of the balloon. So, when defense comes out there to cross-examine him about his criminal history, about his time in prison, that it's not as much of a big deal. I mean, I'm sure Susan Hoffinger will do that before she is seated either today or tomorrow.

COOPER: Hoffinger is asking about Trump's consideration of a presidential run in 2011. I mean, as a defense attorney, Cohen appears to be choosing his words very carefully as he describes the 2011 discussion moving to June 2015. Cohen recalls Trump's announcement at Trump Tower.

As a defense attorney, if you were to cross examine Michael Cohen, I would assume you would go back and look at all the plethora of things that Michael Cohen has said on his podcast, TikTok I think he's on, in his tweets, all of that, you would want to use against him. Is that right?

[10:25:00]

AIDALA: Oh, absolutely. Right up until, like, I guess, it was Wednesday or something, and I believe you showed me a picture of him wearing a T-shirt with Trump behind bars. So you could start -- you could choose, but you could start from less than a week ago and go all the way back or you can start all the way back and come forward, but you want to show all the motivation he has to lie and the fact that he hates Trump and he wants Trump to go to jail. And, you know, they're going to try to catch him in as many lies as possible.

And the judge at the end of the case, after the summation, but before the jury goes to deliberate, he's going to instruct the jury that, if you find a witness is lying about something, a material fact, you could discount all of their testimonies. I mean, you could piece it apart as well, but you could say, you know what, jurors are allowed to do this. The judge is going to tell them they're allowed to do this. Stormy Daniels lied about this. I think she lied about everything. Michael Cohen lied about this at this trial. I think he lied about everything. So, it's important for the defense to catch him in as many lies, past, present, or current, really, as possible.

COOPER: Arthur Aidala, good to talk to you, Arthur. Thank you very much. I'll see you later tonight on 360.

Michael Cohen is saying that he would frequently provide comment to press regarding different matters that kept popping up. This is in 2011, when Donald Trump was allegedly flirting with a run for the presidency.

And I'm back with Paula and Kaitlan. Michael Cohen had also said that Trump had told them that in 2015, he would run.

REID: And this is setting the stage for the fact that this is charged as a felony because the argument is that this hush money was paid in order to help Trump win the election. So, Cohen says he would go on multiple T.V. news channels on behalf of Trump and the prosecutor confirms with Cohen that he leveraged his press contacts for Trump's campaign.

This is all going to speak to Cohen's role, unofficial though it was, in the campaign and helping Trump get elected. And that is key because that's what elevates falsifying business records, a paperwork crime, to a felony.

COOPER: Cohen says --

COLLINS: And this is -- yes, this is key (ph).

COOPER: Cohen says Trump told him the, you know, that when this is announced, there's going to be a lot of women coming forward. The prosecutor moves to the 2015 meeting with Pecker and Trump. This is the meeting that has already -- David Pecker has already testified about. This is this critical meeting, David Pecker, Donald Trump, talking about this scheme, sort of this catch and kill scheme, although he said, Pecker said they didn't use that term. Yes, ma'am, Cohen says, when asked about whether they met in 2015.

COLLINS: But that comment from Michael Cohen, that when he did decide to finally run for president, and was making that 2015 announcement, that he said to Michael Cohen to be prepared because there would be women coming forward. I mean, it speaks to Trump's involvement in knowing what was going to be coming, what he anticipated and what he wanted Michael Cohen to do about it. I think that's really important testimony for the jury to hear in the sense of what's coming and the fact that Trump anticipated this, what it looks like when it actually happened and what Michael Cohen carried out.

And so this is the meeting, obviously, just to remind everyone, because it was 16 days ago in this trial that David Pecker testified about this, where he essentially said that Trump and Michael Cohen sought him out to ask him how he could help them with the campaign. Initially, it had been reported the other way around, that Pecker was seeking to see how he could help.

Pecker testified that they sought him out and asked what he could do with his platform of the National Enquirer and largely AMI in order to help their campaign. And that's what Michael Cohen is saying, that they discussed the power of that in the terms of where it was located, how many people saw it, the eyeballs that it got.

Also, the National Enquirer was something that registered high in Trump's mind because, of course, his brain is often kind of -- his mindset has been stuck in the 1980s in the sense of what he values, covers, headlines, and what that looks like, and how important he believes that.

COOPER: Cohen said, if we can place positive stories about Mr. Trump, that would be beneficial. It wasn't just about sort of keeping an eye in about any women coming forward, was actually putting out positive stories and negative stories about Ted Cruz, about Ben Carson and others.

REID: Yes, anything that he could do to help him get elected and use the platform that he had. And this, prosecutors will argue, is the beginning of the conspiracy that resulted in the Stormy Daniels hush money payment from Cohen and then an effort to cover it up. So this now, they're really getting into the case right now.

COOPER: And Cohen saying, if we can place negative stories about some of the other candidates, that would also be beneficial. Hoffinger also asked whether Pecker offered anything else.

COLLINS: And Michael Cohen is now testifying to something that's already been corroborated by another witness. I mean, David Pecker had the exact same recollection of this meeting and testified to it initially. So, the jurors are hearing something that they're already familiar with, that they know the Margaret Rubio, the Ben Carson, the negative stories that the National Enquirer put out on their behalf in an effort to benefit Donald Trump. And Michael Cohen said that David Pecker said he would keep an eye out for anything negative about him. We already know that.

So, it really also is speaking to Michael Cohen in the sense of what the jury is hearing, they're having him corroborate what they've already heard.

COOPER: And that he would be able to help us know in advance of anything that's coming down the pike.

[10:30:00]

Essentially, Hoffinger confirms with Cohen that Pecker via AMI executed that plan.

REID: Kaitlan makes an important point.