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Biden: "The Best Way Forward Is To Pass The Torch"; CNN Poll: Harris Improves On Biden's Performance Against Trump; Trump Calls Harris "Ultra-Liberal" At First Rally Since Biden Exit. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired July 24, 2024 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:00]
JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Right.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN HOST: Then-candidate Biden, asking her to be on his ticket.
To be in this position now, selecting her VP is an important decision. It's not the only decision.
ZELENY: Right.
COLLINS: She has a lot of -- 105 days is not a lot of time to run a presidential campaign.
ZELENY: It's not. I mean, but luckily for her, she's inheriting one that's already moving down the road. They have offices all over. So, it's been viewed by the fact that the campaign was stronger than the candidate. Now the question will be, can Vice President Harris step into that and be as strong as their campaign infrastructure is?
COLLINS: Yes, and keeping the same campaign managers, as of this moment.
ZELENY: We shall see.
COLLINS: Yes, we shall.
Jake, obviously, a lot at stake for Vice President Harris, at this moment.
JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: That's right.
And it's just a little bit after 09:00 p.m. Eastern Time, a little less than an hour since President Biden from the Oval Office, with his family, watching close by, gave what amounted to something of a valedictory address, pledging to serve out the remainder of his term, but capping his political career, and quote, passing the torch, to his Vice President, Kamala Harris.
The first lady, Jill Biden, just posted on Instagram a handwritten note of thanks. She's quotes -- or I'm quoting with -- from her now. She said it's, quote, "To those who never wavered, to those who refused to doubt, to those who always believed, my heart is full of gratitude. Thank you for the trust you put in Joe - now it's time to put that trust in Kamala. Love, Jill," unquote.
We want to start this hour, with new CNN polling, since President Biden first announced he was bowing out of the race, in a statement, on Sunday.
CNN's John King is at the Magic Wall for us.
John, what are the potential upsides for Vice President Harris, and Democrats, in the new polling?
JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Jake, the first thing I'll say is everyone should be careful, and let this settle in for several days or a week, and then look at the polls and make a better judgment.
But you do see public polls. If you just look at the National horse race numbers, the Vice President, Kamala Harris, is performing a little bit better than the President, Joe Biden was, a few days ago, heading into the Republican convention. So, a little bit of signs of improvement there.
My view is let's take a look at the bones of the polls. Let's not focus on the horse race, right now. Let that settle in. And you do see, you do see some plus sides, for the Vice President.
Let me bring this up here. Forgive me for turning my back. I just want to stretch this out.
This is the favorable and unfavorable ratings of President Biden, Donald Trump and Kamala Harris. You'll notice, she has a slightly better favorable rating than the President's, within the margin of error. So, it's not a huge deal.
But she has a lower unfavorable rating. A pollster would say she has a little bit more room to grow, if you will, her public image. We don't spend enough time -- Vice Presidents don't get as much attention. So, she has a chance to improve her profile.
Donald Trump, unpopular. Joe Biden was even more unpopular. The question is, can she improve these numbers here, now that she's the candidate, the prospective Democratic nominee?
One other good sign, better sign anyway, if you want to improve this, for Harris, as opposed to Biden, among voters of color, we asked this in our poll, do you have a favorable view of the candidates.
She polls much better than the President. Vice President Harris does among voters of colors. Obviously, a critical part, Black voters, Latino voters, Asian voters of the Biden coalition in 2020, where he had had some suffering, some hurt.
Among women, this is within the margin of error. So I want to be careful. But this is absolutely critical for the Vice President. She must do well among women, everywhere, but including in American suburbs. So, maybe she's a little better than the President there. Let's watch that number as we go forward.
And this is key. 37 percent favorable rating is not great. But it's 10 points better than the President's, among younger voters. Younger voters are mad at the President, over Israel, Hamas. They feel disconnected with him because of his age. Kamala Harris does have a better number there. Jake, if she wants to put the Biden coalition back together, in any way, though, she's going to have to improve that one, a lot more.
TAPPER: Yes. And what are the warning signs for Harris? Because I've heard a lot of Democrats fret, shall we say?
KING: All right. Let me give you just a couple. Look, she just has become -- she's clenching up delegates. It's not official yet. But she's clenched enough delegates to be the nominee.
Who should Democrats nominate? This as a question was only asked to Democrats, and voters who revealed themselves as Democratic-leaning independents. So pieces of the Biden coalition right here. 76 percent say they want Harris. That's a good number. But 23 percent, almost a quarter of the Biden coalition says we wanted somebody else. So, she's got some salesmanship to do, convincing these people she's best as the front-runner and the nominee.
As she tries to do that, this one I find quite fascinating. So, the Democratic nominee should -- we put this question, again, to Democratic voters and Democratic-leaning independents. 53 percent say, continue Biden's policies. 47 percent take a new direction.
So, there's a tug of war out there among Democratic voters. And this is for Kamala Harris to say, you know, obviously she's wants to run on the Biden agenda forward. But there are some pieces of the Biden record, maybe she wants a little separation from. This is hard to juggle. She has a huge challenge now. And this is part of it, making peace in the family.
TAPPER: Yes, I was just looking at the -- how the 2020 results, and Biden got 36 percent of the White non-college educated vote.
KING: Right.
TAPPER: It's not a lot. But it's better than Hillary Clinton. 28 percent. So that's going to be a big -- as you constantly tell us--
KING: Right.
TAPPER: --it's all about the margins.
Does Kamala Harris have more paths to 270 electoral votes than Biden did? Because it seemed like at the end there for Biden, it was, they had one path we were talking about this, and it was that blue wall. Show us what her possible paths are.
[21:05:00] KING: It was beyond bleak for Biden, in the end. But it's not easy for Kamala Harris, Jake. Again, we'll know more about this as people get to know her. We'll know more about this after the Democratic convention. We'll know more about this after her vice-presidential pick.
But where are we now? This is our map. This was our map, going into Trump versus Biden, going into the Republican convention. And Donald Trump, deep red, solid Republican, light red, leaning Republican. Trump already had enough. The question is, how does that change?
You mentioned the blue wall. A lot of Democrats are worried that she does not have Joe Biden's standing with White working-class voters. And so, the easiest way for a Democrat is to keep this blue, to keep this blue, Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin, right?
If Kamala Harris could do that, the old blue wall states, then she would only need Nebraska's 2nd Congressional District, or one other electoral vote somewhere else. And she could get to 270. But a lot of Democrats are worried, can she win those blue wall states? Again, we'll see what happens with the vice-presidential pick.
But let's take these away. All right? Whether we leave them for Donald Trump, or is it toss-up? I'm going to make them toss-ups right now. It doesn't really matter. The question is, can Kamala Harris get there, without the blue wall states?
Well, you can look at the Obama campaign. Can she generate huge African American turnout? Can she make peace with Blacks and Latinos, in other places, who have questions about Joe Biden?
If she can, and perhaps make peace with some younger voters as well, could she get North Carolina, like Obama did in 2008? He then lost it in 2012, but record African American turnout.
Can he -- can she keep Georgia? Joe Biden just won it. Obama never won Georgia. But can she keep Georgia? Again, you would need record African American turnout, and you would need significant young voters.
Can she get Arizona to stay Democratic? Latinos, suburban women, absolutely critical there. And could she somehow? Donald Trump right now is favored in Nevada. But could she get Nevada back?
There's another way. Without the blue wall. That's the Sun Belt path. So, there's a blue wall path, the traditional Democratic path, or there's a sun wall -- Sun Belt path, another path for Kamala Harris. Neither of them easy.
This is the challenge for Democrats. With a 100 days to do it, how do you pick a vice president? Where do you put your resources -- pick. It's hard.
TAPPER: Very interesting.
Let's get the panel's take on those numbers, and what might move them in the weeks ahead. I guess, the best thing you can say, I mean, for any Democrats, who think this is over, to Kamala Harris is going to be the next president. I mean, that's crazy talk. It's going to be a dogfight, from here on out.
It's, I think, it's fair to say it does look right at this precise moment, as though Democrats have a better chance now than they did a week ago. But it's still steep. I mean, Nevada is still right now, Trump's for the taking.
DANA BASH, CNN HOST: Yes, it is. And North Carolina was in one of those scenarios. My friend to the left -- my friend, from South Carolina, a lady from South Carolina, sort of was--
TAPPER: Shaking her head, no.
BASH: --shaking her head saying I don't -- I don't think so.
TAPPER: I think she was shaking her head no, with Georgia more than North Carolina.
NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, actually both, yes.
TAPPER: Well.
BASH: Both.
HENDERSON: Both, yes.
TAPPER: Never going to happen, you're saying.
BASH: But--
HENDERSON: Yes.
(CROSSTALK)
BASH: But what are the things that, you know, that we're still in that period, that sort of straddle period, where people are yes, everybody is looking ahead to now, to Kamala Harris. But the question is Joe Biden versus a Kamala Harris.
And one of the things I was going to say earlier, was this is really a stunning number. The question -- this is another data point in our poll today.
Whether or not people approve of Joe Biden's decision to end his campaign? And this is speaking to what you were saying, John, and Jake, as well, about the voters know what they're doing. 90 percent of Democrats said, yes. 90 percent of Democrats.
KASIE HUNT, CNN ANCHOR & CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Yes.
BASH: His own party said yes. And 85 percent of Republicans. And if Republicans are maybe being strategic, you would think well, they would want him to stay in the race, because they would want Donald Trump to win. 85 percent.
TAPPER: Before he dropped out.
BASH: Yes.
TAPPER: They were more supportive of him staying in than Democrats were.
BASH: Right.
TAPPER: For those--
BASH: And now it's flipped.
TAPPER: --Machiavellian reasons
BASH: Right, exactly. But now, according to our poll, it's flipped.
But the thing that is really interesting is before Joe Biden dropped out, one of the really striking dynamics within the Democratic coalition was the Black support that he continued to hold. And a lot of Black voters, Black leaders, the Congressional Black Caucus, grassroots groups, were saying, do not give in Joe Biden, don't give up.
And still in this poll, it shows that that is the part of the sort of Biden coalition, the Democratic coalition that is most surprised that he gave up. But now they do have an African American candidate. So, the question is whether that is going to quickly transfer, particularly since you see Joe Biden so enthusiastic.
HENDERSON: Yes.
BASH: About her.
HENDERSON: I mean, part of the attachment among African American voters to Joe Biden was also about Kamala Harris, right?
[21:10:00]
There was this feeling that if people toppled, pushed aside, Joe Biden, that they would also push aside Kamala Harris, for random White governor, right? There was a whole list of people, who would supposedly be better than Kamala Harris. Gretchen Whitmer, Josh Shapiro, all the people who are in now on the VP list.
What you see now is a level of excitement. It's not quite Obama-level of excitement. But it is, you know, she is an internet sensation. We talked about that before. The money, she's raising. The calls, right, 40,000 Black women on a three-hour call, on Sunday. There's a call tonight of Latinos. There was a Black male call with 20,000 voters on there. People are just excited and relieved in some ways, right? And this is particularly, I think, among younger African Americans, who were going to hold their nose and vote for Joe Biden. But also, as they were seeing Joe Biden, were sort of holding their breath every time they saw him, on their television. So, there is a chance at making history that people see in Kamala Harris.
The good thing, I think, about Kamala Harris is that she is in some ways underrated. People have not really been paying attention to her. As she -- as she's gotten better and better, as a campaigner, and as a communicator. You saw that yesterday, in her speech, in Milwaukee. 35,000 -- 3,500 people showed up, a lot of White people. I think Black people saw that and said, OK, this is somebody who can appeal to White Americans in the Midwest, those states that she's going to have to -- have to win.
So, it is a just a sea change over the last couple of -- couple of days, in terms of Kamala Harris. Cardi B, right, who did not want to vote for Joe Biden, or Kamala Harris -- or Donald Trump, is now online, right? There's a--
TAPPER: Charlamagne tha God.
HENDERSON: Charlamagne tha God.
TAPPER: Charlamagne tha God said they --
(CROSSTALK)
HENDERSON: --all of this.
TAPPER: --said Biden and Trump were both garbage candidates.
HENDERSON: Exactly.
TAPPER: And now he says he's going to support--
HENDERSON: And now he's going to vote for them. Exactly.
TAPPER: --he's going to endorse Kamala Harris.
HENDERSON: Yes.
TAPPER: There was some reporting, Evan, that President Biden before he stepped down, from the top of the ticket, was concerned that Kamala Harris wouldn't be able to win. Is that true?
EVAN OSNOS, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: I think that was one of the factors in his decision-making. I mean, it is part of that political creature side of his mind that has been there, throughout this process, this very agonizing last month. He would not have stepped aside if he hadn't decided that she can.
I would be -- I'm fairly confident that he's as surprised, I think, as many people are, at the surge of energy that it has unlocked. You heard some of that in his speech, tonight, about new voices and a new generation.
HUNT: Yes. I--
OSNOS: I -- go ahead.
HUNT: I think one of the things as I was watching, John, you kind of walked through the map, is that she still has a really tough path, as you very clearly outlined.
KING: Yes, very.
HUNT: However, President Biden's decision really stopped the hemorrhaging, right?
KING: Yes.
HUNT: I mean, we weren't talking about Minnesota, Virginia, New Mexico, all these other places.
KING: Yes.
HUNT: So, the question, can she capitalize?
KING: Yes.
HUNT: And I do think the vice-presidential nominee might make a difference overall.
TAPPER: Yes.
Anderson?
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Jake, thanks very much.
We've got some new images we want to show you. Staffers watching the President's speech, tonight, inside the White House. And then, a short time later, gathering outside for a reception that MJ Lee talked about, in the Rose Garden, with the President and his team. It was, look at these pictures, at twilight in more ways than one.
We're back with our political commentators.
And Ashley Etienne, who has served as Communications Director for Vice President Harris.
David, you look at that polling. Do you put much stock in the numbers at the -- I mean, the polling at this point?
DAVID AXELROD, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I'd say a few things about it.
One is, this thing hasn't settled and it won't for a while. So, I don't know exactly how much to put into it.
I do think it reflects the reality that where Joe Biden was weak with younger voters and voters of color, she's doing better now, and likely will do better, in November. She's probably losing a little ground among older voters, some White voters, who were committed to Biden. But we don't know where this is going.
And we should point out that, for her, being tied or close to tied in a national poll, is a loss, because you have to -- if you're a Democrat, you have to be a few points ahead, nationally, in order to carry the battleground states. The polls are overweighted for large states like California, New York, and so on, where she's going to roll up big numbers.
I mean, look, I think she's had an amazing rollout. And the enthusiasm is real. The money is incredible. The volunteers -- the volunteers. And I think that there's some momentum to that that may continue.
But everybody should be sober about the fact that this is a hard race. And she's not ahead, right now. And it's going to take a lot of work to get to 270 electoral votes.
COOPER: Yes. Ashley, a poll found that half of those backing Harris said that it was more because they support her than opposing Trump, which would certainly seem to speak well.
ASHLEY ETIENNE, FORMER COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR FOR VP HARRIS: Oh, absolutely. I mean, I hate to take us back to the speech. But I think I'm going to be absorbing it for days.
[21:15:00]
But this part connects back to the Vice President. The President said only in America can a kid with a stutter from Scranton, sit behind the Resolute Desk. And he said, it speaks to the promise and the possibility of America. And now, he passes the torch to Kamala Harris, who also represents the promise and the possibility of America.
You're talking about a woman, who is the child of immigrant, whose first memories were in a stroller, marching for freedom for everybody. Right? She has broken every glass ceiling, and is now running to break the ultimate glass ceiling. Only in America, to Biden's point. And so, for me, that's pure poetry. And that's what makes this nation great.
And I think before we get into the numbers and move on, and -- we've got to spend some time appreciating that fact, not just about Joe Biden, but about who Kamala Harris represents, and about who we want to be as a nation.
COOPER: Scott, I want to play some things that some Republicans have been saying, about President Biden, his decision to get out and moving Harris up (ph).
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. J.D. VANCE (R-OH), 2024 VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It's clear these guys don't actually care about democracy. They don't care about the will of the voters. They just care about power.
SEN. JOSH HAWLEY (R-MO): Those 15 million, 16 million Democrat primary voters, they don't matter.
Now, the Democrats are rigging their own elections, Laura. I mean, this is hysterical. I mean, it looks like, dare we say it, an insurrection.
SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY): Leading Washington Democrats prevailed upon President Biden to toss out primary results and leave the nomination in limbo while party bosses anoint another candidate.
REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA): 14 million people went through the process, and chose this nominee, Joe Biden. Now, a handful of people have gotten together and decided he's no longer suitable. That's not how this system works. They are violating democratic principles.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: I mean, Mike Johnson. Liz Cheney, has said that he played a key role in trying to overturn the 2020 election.
She wrote in her book that she says, quote, when I confronted him with the flaws in his legal arguments, Johnson would often concede or say something to the effect of, we just need to do this one last thing for Trump. Worse, she says, he was telling our colleagues he was a constitutional expert, while advocating positions that were constitutionally infirm.
It does seem kind of hypocritical, no?
SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Oh, you mean Democrats installing someone, who's never got a single vote for the nomination for president in 2020 or 2024?
COOPER: No. I mean, Mike Johnson's comments.
JENNINGS: Oh? Look, Mike Johnson had a point of view.
You all know my -- by the way, you all know my position on January the 6th. It's well--
(CROSSTALK)
COOPER: Yes, and between--
JENNINGS: It's well -- it's well-known here, what my position on January 6th is, and what it was.
And he had a point of view. And the Supreme Court didn't agree with him. And he moved on.
But you have to admit. There is something weird about the Democratic Party, over the last several years, arguing about the sanctity of votes, and how important it is for people to make decisions, and so on and so forth, completely tossing out the results of a primary election.
He's not wrong. 14 million people did vote for Joe Biden. Kamala Harris didn't get a single vote in 2020. She didn't get a single vote this time around. And now she's got her party's nomination. And that's fine. They're a party. They have a right to do that.
But it was the Democratic Party that labeled themselves, the party of democracy, the defender of democracy, democracy is on the ballots.
COOPER: You're equating this to January 6th?
JENNINGS: No. I am saying that a political party, called the Democrats, stake their ground on the idea that when people vote, it matters. And I actually agree. I agree that votes matter.
AXELROD: Have you--
JENNINGS: In this case--
AXELROD: Have you -- have you--
JENNINGS: --nobody voted for this.
AXELROD: Scott, have you seen the polling though? Like 80 percent of Democrats, maybe more, approved of his decision to step down, the overwhelming majority of people in the country.
What you're, what the Republicans are saying is, he's yours, you own them, and we can beat him, so we want him to stay. And we'll tell this fairy tale about our newfound concern about democracy. And we're going to fight for those 14 million Democrats.
80 million people voted for Joe Biden, in 2020. And I didn't hear these same Republicans standing up for their rights.
COOPER: I mean, didn't you want him to step down after that debate?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, yes, there's a flip now.
COOPER: I mean, didn't -- didn't all the Republicans wanted him to step down?
JENNINGS: I certainly -- I certainly questioned his ability to stay -- to stay in.
ALYSSA FARAH GRIFFIN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: But also, voters got new information, when the debate happened. I think a lot of us had concerns, for years, about Biden's mental acuity and ability to do the job, going forward. But I think the debate was the starkest moment that 20 million-plus people were like, oh, we have real concerns.
He was not the coronated candidate. He had not accepted the party's nomination yet. Kamala Harris, when they voted in the primary, they knew they were voting for her as Vice President. So, I wouldn't argue--
VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: This was a--
FARAH GRIFFIN: --she didn't actually get any votes. JONES: I mean, this was tough inside the party, though. I mean, the arguments that you're making, Scott, were actually arguments that were being made within our party by people who, right now, are very happy about Kamala Harris.
[21:20:00]
OK. So, this was this was not easy for us. It was hard for us. We do take people's votes seriously. And the fact that frankly, a lot of African Americans voted was a real source of rug burn and heartburn inside the party.
But we have a party that has rules inside of rules, wrapped up in rules, and deep fried in some more rules. And the rules allowed for this. And people -- you vote for the delegates. And ultimately, it's the delegates that make the decision.
FARAH GRIFFIN: Right.
JONES: And so, it's the delegates that were voted for that are making the decision ultimately.
Biden says, I don't want to do it. Kamala says, I do want to do it. At the end of the day, the delegates that were elected by our process, they could say, we don't want Kamala. We want Elmo. We want Oscar the Grouch. We want anybody. It's still the democratically-elected delegates that are making the decision. So, I think the idea that just party bosses came in and knocked him off isn't right.
But this was not easy for us. You are not wrong, Scott. This -- there was real heartburn inside the party about this. But we are not a cult. We're not a cult. We got new information, about our leader, and we decided that we had a responsibility to the country, and to the party, to give somebody else a shot.
JENNINGS: Was it new information?
JONES: It was new for us. It was.
(CROSSTALK)
JENNINGS: I mean, I mean, I mean--
JONES: Yes. It was.
JENNINGS: I mean this is -- this has been my point all night.
JONES: Yes, that's what we disagree.
JENNINGS: This was not new information.
JONES: It was new for us.
Hey look, can I got to say something about this? Because it comes up all the time. I think that the right-wingers really think that we knew all the time, we just didn't know the (inaudible). We were still -- we were--
(CROSSTALK)
JONES: We didn't know.
COOPER: By the way, I was sitting next to you, the night of the debate. And you looked like you were stomach-punched.
FARAH GRIFFIN: Yes.
COOPER: You actually got up and were like--
JONES: Yes.
FARAH GRIFFIN: You had to take a line out (ph).
COOPER: Much more ahead, tonight, including Kaitlan Collins, next, with Senator Bernie Sanders. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[21:25:11]
COLLINS: President Biden's address to the nation caps a remarkable three-and-a-half days, which have seen the Democratic Party fall in line behind Vice President Harris in warp speed.
Joining me tonight, Vermont Independent senator, and former Democratic presidential candidate, Bernie Sanders, who has been taking a somewhat more measured approach.
And Senator Sanders, it's great to have you here tonight.
You just heard President Biden delivering that address and, at the end of it, saying that he has made his pick, in endorsing Vice President Harris, to succeed him.
You have yet to endorse her. Are you prepared to do so, tonight?
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT): I'm going to work as hard as I can to see that Donald Trump, the most dangerous president in American history, is defeated, and that Kamala Harris is in fact the next President of the United States.
But before I make a formal announcement, I just want to make certain that the Vice President is going to be campaigning on issues that the working-class of this country, a working-class that has long been forgotten, needs to hear.
And I want to just make sure that the Vice President will be working with President Biden, and with me, and others, to demand that the wealthiest people in this country start paying their fair share of taxes. That when we have 50 percent of our elderly people living on $30,000, a year or less, that we expand Social Security benefits, by lifting the cap on taxable income, so the rich start paying their fair share. I want to hear her be strong, in contrasting herself with Trump, and making clear that we have got to save this planet from climate change, that we're pro-union, make it easier for workers to join union, we raise the minimum wage to a living wage, that we deal with the fact that with the -- have the highest rate of childhood poverty, of almost any major country on Earth.
So, we got to start focusing on issues that working-class people desperately need to hear, when 60 percent of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck, and too many elderly people--
COLLINS: Yes.
SANDERS: --too many kids are living in poverty.
COLLINS: Well, and obviously she's still looking for a governing partner, at this time. We've seen the list of candidates that they are vetting, right now. A lot of them are moderate members of the Democratic Party.
And I wonder if when you look at that list, you'd like to see her maybe cast a wider net, to include someone, who has championed some of the same issues that you yourself do?
SANDERS: Well, I would hope -- you know, there's a lot of speculation as to who might be her running mate. But I certainly would like to see somebody, who has a history of standing up to the oligarchs, who have so much power in this country, who's going to fight for campaign finance reform, so the big money doesn't dominate both political parties. Yes, I certainly would like to see that person be the vice- presidential candidate.
COLLINS: I have to ask you about something that Donald Trump said at a rally, tonight, when he was attacking Vice President Harris. He said she is, quote, "More liberal than Bernie Sanders."
Is that how you would put it?
SANDERS: Probably not. It's just possible for the 83,000th (ph) time that Trump is lying. Now, I don't think that is the case. I think that the Vice President had a very strong record in the U.S. Senate, strong record working with President Biden in the administration. But no, I don't quite think that her record is, is where mine is, in terms of being progressive.
COLLINS: Do you think you'll eventually come around to endorsing her? I mean, are you leaning that way--
SANDERS: Look, I am going to--
COLLINS: --after you have these conversations?
SANDERS: Kaitlan, I am going to do everything I can to make sure that she wins. But I just want to hope that in the next few days and weeks, we can make sure that we put together a campaign that focuses on the needs of working-class. And make no mistake about it. I'm with her. And I'm going to do everything that they can -- that I can, that the progressive movement can, to make sure that she is the next President.
COLLINS: Senator Sanders, you're on Capitol Hill, right now. Obviously earlier, Prime Minister Netanyahu addressed Congress. You did not attend that speech. You said yesterday, it was the first time that you believed a war criminal, as you put it, had been invited to address the U.S. Congress.
In that speech, he referenced the protesters, who were outside the Capitol, there were thousands of them, as Tehran's useful idiots.
SANDERS: Yes.
COLLINS: What was your takeaway from what you heard from Prime Minister Netanyahu?
SANDERS: Well my takeaway is that he came a very long distance, from Jerusalem to Washington, D.C., to give a campaign speech for the folks back in Israel. This is a guy, who some 70 percent of the people in Israel, in the last poll that was taken, want to resign. So, he came here, and he got a good reception from the Republicans.
[21:30:00]
But it's not just me who thinks he is a war criminal. This is what the International Criminal Court has determined. They have determined what I believe to be true, that his policies are resulting in the starvation, the starvation of tens and tens of thousands of children and Palestinians. And that is a war crime.
And he, along with Sinwar, the leader of Hamas, has been charged with being war criminals. And in my view well they both are.
Sinwar started this war with his Hamas terrorist group.
But Netanyahu has waged total war, destroying the housing, destroying the infrastructure, destroying the health care system. They have bombed every one of the 12 universities in Gaza. And now, we're looking at tens and tens of thousands of children facing starvation. And he lied. He lied when he said, oh, we are trying to get food in. We are trying to act in a decent way.
Every humanitarian organization, working in Gaza, indicates that Israel is making it difficult, impossible, for food to get into starving people. That is a war crime.
COLLINS: Senator Bernie Sanders, thank you for your time tonight.
SANDERS: Thank you.
COLLINS: Jake. Back to you.
TAPPER: Thanks, Kaitlan. I want to show you a new photograph just posted on social media. It's President Biden, with a microphone, talking to White House staffers, in the Rose Garden. The staffers that have of course, just watched the boss bring his long career in politics, though, not his presidency, to a close.
Tonight, back with our panel.
Dana. It sounds like Senator Sanders is on board, but just wants to make sure he gets on to the Vice President's schedule, at some point, in the next few days.
BASH: It's few things he wants to talk to her about. But honestly, he doesn't maybe need to endorse her, because telling the world that she is not as liberal as he is, is maybe the best campaign statement that he could give to her, right now. When she is of course, she has to shore up her base, but she really also needs to appeal to independents, and others, who are going to get beyond that.
TAPPER: Yes. I mean, and that is -- that is going to be a challenge for her to get the Bernie Sanders' progressives on board, while also expanding the caricature being painted of her, as an out-of-touch San Francisco liberal, and reaching out to get the collar counties outside Philly and on and on.
KING: Again, there is a race now to define the Vice President, for the American people out there. And there are a lot of Democrats, who are actually breathing a sigh of relief, and viewing the Trump campaign as rather flat-footed.
The Senate candidate in Pennsylvania, Dave McCormick put up an ad, that cast Kamala Harris as a left to Bernie Sanders, or at least--
BASH: Yes.
KING: --as left as Bernie Sanders liberal.
The Trump campaign has not put any money on television yet.
This is one of the challenges. Is she -- you know, in the 2020 campaign, when she was running to the left of Joe Biden, to get the nomination? She came around to a number of liberal positions that were not her -- she had never spoken out in favor of the Senate, where everybody in that campaign was moving.
There are a lot of Democrats saying, where's -- why didn't the Trump campaign drop a bunch of millions of dollars, even if it was crudely produced, just put her out there, boom. So that's part of the race.
And that's, Senator Sanders, he's done this before. He's smart. He knows what he's doing here. You're right. He wants to get on her schedule. He wants to make sure that she understands. He has a great fundraising list. He has a great organizational list. He has a ton of power in places where she could use the help.
And there a lot of Democrats out there, who love Joe Biden for kicking Trump out of the White House, but have kind of become demoralized and despondent, even. There's des -- there was despair, before Sunday afternoon, that does he have the vigor to do this? We can't let Trump come back.
There is this -- the small-donor money is the best data point, right now. As I said, wait a week or two for the polls. The small-donor rush to Kamala Harris is the best data point, right now, that she has an opportunity.
Again, a smart Democrat, I talked to, yesterday, said Sunday morning, we had about a 5 percent chance of winning. Now we have about a 40 percent chance of winning. So, Democrats shouldn't rush to Vegas, and bet the house. But they're in play now. That's the excitement. They think, OK, we have a chance.
TAPPER: Yes.
HUNT: Yes. And the biggest saving grace, honestly, for Kamala Harris may be the fact that she did manage to avoid a divisive Democratic primary, where she would have been put in uncomfortable situation, after uncomfortable situation, if she had to decide -- would have to -- decided just how progressive was she going to be?
Because I think that's really where we saw her struggle, when she ran for president, and even before that. I mean, I interviewed her back in 2018, and she told me that she thought that they should start from scratch, when I asked her if she wanted to abolish ICE. She pretty quickly cleaned that back up. And now, that's something that's coming back into this campaign. She didn't (ph) have to deal with any of that.
And instead, she has an opportunity to meet with Bernie Sanders. And you're talking about weakness among White working-class men in particular. I actually covered Bernie Sanders day in and day out, on the 2016 trail. And a lot of the people I talked to at those rallies were White working-class men, many of whom were looking at Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump.
KING: Because he fights--
BASH: Yes.
[21:35:00]
KING: Because he fights for them. It's not so much the specifics of the issues. They think he fights for them. They might disagree with him on some things, issues-wise. But he shows up, and he fights for them.
And Sherrod Brown faces the same test, trying to win a Senate seat in Ohio. A great personal brand, can you overcome the politics of the moment?
I love watching politicians, who might not match up on the issues, with some of their key voters. But those voters say, I know he's, for me. That was Joe Biden's gift-- HENDERSON: Yes.
KING: --with some of those blue-collar workers.
HENDERSON: That's right. And I think--
OSNOS: And--
HENDERSON: --one of the things they're trying to do with Kamala Harris is basically insinuate that she stole the nomination and the candidacy for president from the old White man, right?
KING: Yes.
HENDERSON: And they think that's going to play well, in Wisconsin, particularly among older voters, right, because those were the voters that to the extent that Joe Biden was in this race at all, he was doing well among older voters.
There's also just an attempt in a sort of a modified birtherism, there's an attempt to just delegitimize her--
KING: Yes.
HENDERSON: --as a nominee, right, so.
BASH: Kamala.
HENDERSON: Exactly. Kamala.
TAPPER: Mispronouncing her name.
BASH: But it's not how you say her name.
HENDERSON: Yes. Yes.
TAPPER: The blatantly racist and sexist attacks.
HENDERSON: Exactly.
TAPPER: And so much so that Speaker Johnson and the House Republicans had to like caution the Republican Caucus, like go after her on policy.
HENDERSON: Right.
TAPPER: Ixnay on the acism-ra (ph).
HENDERSON: Right, which they will not listen to, right? And this sort of entire--
KING: Well-played.
HENDERSON: --conservative chatter, you know, chattering class will not listen to Mike Johnson. Well, yes, they start off and delegitimize her, as a nominee. TAPPER: Yes.
KING: Yes.
HENDERSON: And then, she's delegitimized as a president, if she wins.
TAPPER: Evan, one of the--
HUNT: Race--
TAPPER: Evan, one of the things that's interesting is, and Kasie just hit on this, the gravitational pull in the 2019-2020 Democratic primary was such a tug to the left, with Congressman Castro talking about decriminalizing people, who came across the border illegally. There was the Defund the Police movement, abolish ICE, et cetera, et cetera. And then-Senator, now-Vice President Harris, she was not immune to some of those wins.
OSNOS: Well, I'll tell you one distinguishing feature, though, between the Democratic ticket, and the Republican ticket, which is that as she goes about the next 105 days, she's going to be having the support of Joe Biden, Barack Obama, other major standard bearers of the Democratic Party, who encompass the full ideological spectrum of the place.
That is a big difference from Donald Trump, who is all alone. It's him, J.D. Vance. He has no former President. He doesn't even have his former Vice President.
So, in a way, it's -- that relieves her of some of the need to have to satisfy everybody's urgent expectations--
TAPPER: Yes.
OSNOS: --to define Harris.
TAPPER: Everyone, thank--
KING: I need one second on this, because as we mentioned tonight, the last woman, who was the nominee for president lost because of third- party voters, third-party voters. We haven't mentioned that third- party candidates.
TAPPER: Let's put a pin in that. We'll come back. Let's do another five hours, tomorrow night.
Everyone, thanks so much.
Next to that point, Donald Trump and Kamala Harris on the campaign trail. Look at how they are framing the next 100-plus days. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[21:41:17] COLLINS: After speaking further, about his exit from the 2024 race, President Biden said, tonight this, of his Vice President, and successor, as the presumptive Democratic nominee for president. Quote, she's experienced, she's tough, and she's capable.
Vice President Harris was in Indianapolis, earlier today, in an event that I should note was scheduled before President Biden announced his exit from the 2024 race. She's trying to mobilize Black women voters at a convention for Zeta Phi Beta, a historically Black sorority.
Eva McKend joins us with more.
Eva, what was Harris' message today, in Indianapolis? Obviously, very different when she was planning this event than when she actually arrived on the scene. What did you hear from her?
EVA MCKEND, CNN NATIONAL POLITICS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kaitlan, she was here to activate Black women. They are, of course, going to be so vital, this election. They are a key part of the Democratic coalition.
And she knows the Zetas, and other Black sororities and fraternities, that they do the vital and important work, like registering people to vote, like making sure that people actually get to the polls in the fall. And then, also acting as ambassadors for her, across the country, getting her message out there.
In many ways, this was really a call to action. Let's listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE U.S., (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Your leadership continued in 2020, when, during the height of a pandemic, you helped elect Joe Biden president of the United States.
(CHEERS & APPLAUSE)
HARRIS: And me as the first woman vice president of the United States.
(CHEERS & APPLAUSE)
HARRIS: And I thank you.
And now, in this moment, our nation needs your leadership once again.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MCKEND: She also talked about Trump's impact on the Supreme Court, Roe versus Wade, ultimately being overturned. And she said that when she is President of the United States that with Congress, she will work to restore those freedoms.
COLLINS: Yes, a lot of questions about what the down ballot looks like, and the impact of all of this on that.
Eva, what does the upcoming schedule for Harris look like? Obviously, every trip she now takes, has a completely different lens to it, and that of a presidential run.
MCKEND: She has quite the packed schedule. She's been crisscrossing the country the last several weeks. She's in Texas now. Tomorrow, she addresses the American Federation of Teachers. We, of course, know, Kaitlan, that labor support, union support, going to be so important for Harris and other Democrats, this election.
Kaitlan.
COLLINS: Eva McKend, thank you for that.
And I want to turn now to Kristen Holmes, we find in Charlotte, North Carolina, where earlier we heard from former President Donald Trump holding his first rally, since he learned that he would not be challenging Joe Biden anymore, in this race.
And Kristen Holmes, obviously, we saw President -- former President Trump was watching President Biden's speech, in the Oval Office, tonight. All of his aides were tweeting out those photos. But he's facing a much different challenger now.
What did he have to say about Vice President Harris, at this rally, today?
KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Kaitlan, he wasted no time, attacking Vice President Kamala Harris. He called her lying Kamala.
He actually spent most of the time attacking her, of his very lengthy speech. He attempted to paint her as a radical liberal, particularly on policies related to immigration, and abortion, and even tried to say that she was somewhat of the mastermind behind some of Biden's policies.
Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT AND 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I was supposed to be nice. They say something happened to me, when I got shot. I became nice.
They are very dangerous people. When you're dealing with them, you can't be too nice. You really can't be. So, if you don't mind, I'm not going to be nice. Is that OK?
[21:45:00]
This November, the American people are going to tell her, no thanks, Kamala. You've done a terrible job. You've been terrible at everything you've done. You're ultra-liberal that we don't want you here. We don't want you anywhere. Kamala, you're fired, get out of here.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: Now, at another point, Kaitlan, he attempted to mock Kamala's attempts at defining this race as that between a former prosecutor and a convicted felon, saying that the people don't buy that, or he doesn't think that people buy that.
But really, one of the most interesting moments for me came not from Donald Trump. But from one of his spokespeople, during a gaggle with reporters, ahead of that speech. They were asked about Rep. Burchett's -- Representative Burchett's comments that Kamala was a DEI hire, and what they thought about that. And they said, it's not even on the campaign's radar.
The reason I bring that up is because I've talked to a number of senior advisers, who said they don't want to go there, that they want to talk about policy, they want to link Kamala Harris to Biden's policies, particularly the ones that Donald Trump polls ahead of Biden on, when it comes to things like immigration, crime, inflation.
But obviously, as both of us know, there is one man that can control the tone. Right now, he was talking about policy today. Obviously, we will wait to see if that continues.
COLLINS: And he mispronounced her name the entire rally
Kristen Holmes, in North Carolina. Thank you for that.
Anderson.
COOPER: Kaitlan, thanks so much.
Back here with the panel.
I mean, the DEI hire, these kind of early attacks, which there are a lot of right-wing commentators using that phrase, a bunch of congressmen using it as well. Is this just the beginning of that kind of stuff, you think?
JONES: Probably. But it's really dumb on their part, because yes, a lot of people in the Black men (ph) in particular, who really didn't care about this race, were kind of sick of it, and weren't. And then Kamala gets in.
Kamala, initially, people weren't sure about her. But she's really become a phenomenon in our community. And now she's being attacked. People are going to crawl through broken glass now to vote for her, because you can't insult a Black woman, who's as qualified as she is.
Look, she's checked every box. These guys -- she checked at -- she's a -- she won at the local level, district attorney. She won as an attorney general. She won as a senator. And she won as the Vice President. She's not qualified, who is?
And so, they're actually ginning up an amazing amount of energy. Because now, it's personal. It's like, you talking about my mama now, and my sister, my grandmother, my daughter? Hold on.
And so, it's really dumb for them to do this. JENNINGS: Yes, I totally agree it. This is not the way. She has a long record, as a senator, where she was the most liberal, as a short-lived presidential candidate, where she said all kinds of things. And as Vice President to Joe Biden, who currently has a 35 percent approval rating. So, there's plenty here to run this race on.
JONES: Inside the square box.
JENNINGS: Without going down a crazy route.
Do you mind if I just--
JONES: Yes.
JENNINGS: --to Axe and Kate and Van and to you.
ETIENNE: I'm Ashley.
JENNINGS: I -- I know what -- I know what you're going through tonight a little bit.
It was actually an emotional moment for me, earlier this year, when Senator McConnell decided to step down from the leadership of the Republican conference. It was emotional for a lot of us who had worked for him.
And I just wanted to say that I know what this is like, to have to sit through one of these speeches. And it's emotional. And I know it's not probably fun to debate me over it.
But for people who worked in the business, and who've worked for politicians, and who've gotten close to them. I just wanted to acknowledge that--
JONES: Yes.
JENNINGS: --I know what's -- I know what you're going through, and a lot of other people in the business know what you're going through. And I just wanted to say, I know it's an emotional night for you.
JONES: Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Appreciate it.
ETIENNE: Thank you.
FARAH GRIFFIN: What a classy guy he is.
JONES: Yes, that's good.
FARAH GRIFFIN: Well, and by the way, I did think it was a nice moment that the President and the first lady decided to reward the White House staff.
Now listen, we can have arguments about senior staff if they insulated, if they were transparent enough from the public. But there were a lot of people working around the campus of the White House that had no idea the inner workings of what was happening. And they had to deal with a new cycle that was hellish, with people calling into question their leadership.
And I thought that was just a nice moment to reward people, who were loyal, kept their heads down, and were working.
ETIENNE: Yes.
AXELROD: I think that was also a reward for him.
FARAH GRIFFIN: Yes.
AXELROD: Because it's a very lonely decision to walk away. I can tell you that one thing about working in the White House, is there is a sense of community there.
And in a way, what he's saying is I'm going to walk away from my community because this is what duty calls on me to do. So, I think that makes it hard. So, to have the community rally, and embrace you with love, on a night like this, I'm sure was very important to him.
COOPER: Ashley?
ETIENNE: Yes, no, I just wanted to get back to the Republican strategy.
The Wall Street Journal popped an editorial, right before the speech, title of it, Kamala Harris Confounds Republicans. They go on to say that the GOP find themselves oddly on the backfoot.
[21:50:00]
I don't think you can overstate the level of enthusiasm, and excitement, about Kamala Harris, right now. A $125 million in days.
JONES: Yes.
ETIENNE: A 100,000 volunteers in days. It is like something we've never seen before. I was on the 2008 campaign, and we thought people were on fire for Barack Obama. They're on fire for Kamala Harris.
If you look at the internal polls that are coming out of the campaign, they're saying that Kamala Harris is outpacing Donald Trump, among that coalition, that Biden built in 2020. He's plus -- she's plus 21 with women, plus 25 with young people.
If you look at the issues, they're to her advantage, especially when you look at those voters. She's -- he's also -- she's also polling higher than him among those voters that are 65 and older, and White educated voters. And what they care about most are the issue she's been leading on.
JONES: Yes.
ETIENNE: Abortion. Democracy. So, this is going to be a race. And the nation is excited about her. I'm excited to see how she goes head-to-head with--
AXELROD: I actually think -- I am sure there's no doubt she's had a surge. I think if the numbers were as you describe them, she'd be well ahead, right now.
ETIENNE: Well the campaign -- as the campaign described it.
AXELROD: But -- well, the numbers that they described to you--
ETIENNE: Right.
AXELROD: --she'd be well ahead.
I think it's going to be a tough race. I mean, I don't think anybody should have any illusions about that.
But on the issue of what some of these Republicans are saying about her. She's been a prosecutor, a state attorney general in the largest state in the country, U.S. senator and Vice President. And compare that to the guy, who Donald Trump has chosen for Vice President, who has been a U.S. senator for 18 months, and has never served in any other office.
ETIENNE: Yes.
AXELROD: So, I mean, if they want to get into a qual-- I don't know, if they want to get into a qualifications argument.
COOPER: How long do you think it is before Donald Trump turns on J.D. Vance?
AXELROD: Well, I think here's one of the interesting questions.
JENNINGS: Well, come on.
COOPER: You don't think?
AXELROD: Here's one of the interesting questions.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think.
AXELROD: I think his camp -- and I've said many times, I think he has the best campaign staff that he's ever had. The leadership of the campaign are experienced, smart, tough. And the question was always, how long will he take their advice? And what will happen, if he feels like things have taken a turn?
And I don't -- I'm not sure that they send him out today to do what he did. But I'm sure their attitude is you can control what you can control. And you might be able to control Donald Trump until you can't. And you can't, when he starts getting worried.
COOPER: Everyone, thank you. Coming up, more on the campaign ahead, and the arguments and attacks both candidates will use, try to sway voters and capture the White House. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[21:56:08]
COLLINS: Former President Donald Trump watched President Biden speak from the Oval Office, earlier tonight, from his plane, after a rally in Charlotte, North Carolina, where for the first time since Harris became the presumptive Democratic nominee, Donald Trump tried out his attack lines on her, including this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: For three-and-a-half years, lying Kamala Harris has been the ultra-liberal driving force behind every single Biden catastrophe. She is a radical-left lunatic, who will destroy our country, if she ever gets the chance to get into office. We're not going to let that happen.
(CHEERS)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: And my panel of Jamie Gangel, and Jeff Zeleny, are back here with me.
And Jeff, just listening to Donald Trump earlier, one other thing that stood out is he was talking about what Biden was laying out in his 11- minute speech, which is what he believes is at stake in this election, talking about the future of American democracy, and the Republic if we can keep it.
Trump was raising this question that other Republicans have raised, so, the FBI has not found any basis for this, and whether or not that talk of him being a threat to democracy is what led to his attempted assassination in Pennsylvania, a few weeks ago.
But the contrast of that stem-winder of a two-hour Trump rally in Charlotte, with Biden's 11-minute address, tonight, was really something when you think about this race.
ZELENY: It was stark and striking and so different than former President Trump's address, last week, at least part of it. I mean, he said last week, he would not talk about the shooting again. He was talking about it one time. Of course, he did, perhaps not surprisingly.
But I think when he's talking about his new rival, Vice President Kamala Harris, this is something that he seems to be really grappling with as Republicans do. It's one thing to talk about her policies. That is fair game. But you can -- the Republicans I talked to are suddenly recoiling and really nervous, at every mention of DEI, dumb as a rock, because that is not the path back to victory, in their view.
So, I think that the Wall Street Journal editorial, as we mentioned earlier, is also mentioning how the Vice President is confounding. And I think that is clear, right there. We know the Vice President, she was watching President Biden's speech tonight as well, in Houston, obviously watching it with through a very, very different lens.
So, going into the final 100 days of this election, it is absolutely a stark contrast. The former President trying to define his new rival, still obsessed with his old rival, and the script is unwritten.
COLLINS: Yes. And it's not just Donald Trump and how he's handling Harris. It's also J.D. Vance, and the clips that were being resurfaced yesterday--
JAMIE GANGEL, CNN SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes.
COLLINS: --of him saying that Harris and AOC and Pete Buttigieg were childless cat ladies, running the government, who don't really have a vested interest in, in the future of it.
I mean, there is going to be, when you think about the moderate independent voters who could decide this election, Jamie, and they're weighing their choices.
GANGEL: Who will decide this election.
Look, what we heard, there is sort of the usual Donald Trump. But he and J.D. Vance run a risk. If we start getting into nasty women? If we're hearing a lot of racism, dog whistles? That will turn off the independents, the suburban women voters, they absolutely need to win this race. So, there is a balancing act.
On the other hand, what do we know about Donald Trump? He likes to attack. He thinks that works. And it does work with his base.
COLLINS: I wonder how that's changed though, since 2016, when he was running against a woman, the last time, Jeff.
ZELENY: We will find out. I mean, this is definitely going to be a test of and for the country. I think that that was such a different campaign, because he didn't have a record. There was no--
GANGEL: Right.
ZELENY: It was such a different time in the country. Demographically--
COLLINS: Roe versus Wade was still in place.
[22:00:00]
ZELENY: For sure. Demographically, the country was different, and abortion was not front and center in the campaign at all. In fact, it was a motivating factor, on the Republican side of the campaign. So, it is different in every way that a Hillary Clinton campaign from 2016. COLLINS: Yes. It is remarkable, Jamie, to think of it in that perspective of how much has changed, and how often it can kind of unearth Donald Trump's worst instincts. We'll see what that looks like, on the campaign trail.
GANGEL: No one is going to sleep very much, in the next 105 days.
COLLINS: That includes you, Jamie.
GANGEL: Yes.
COLLINS: And you, Jeff, as well.
Great to have both of you here. Thanks so much for joining us.
Thank you so much for joining our special live coverage tonight, of President Biden's Oval Office address.
"CNN NEWSNIGHT WITH ABBY PHILLIP" starts now.
