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CNN Saturday Morning Table for Five. President Trump Attempts to Tie Epstein Files to Former Democratic Presidents Bill Clinton and Barack Obama; President Trump's Approval Rating Decreases among Independents; Federal Reserve Chairman Jerome Powell Challenges President Trump During Press Conference over President's Claims New Federal Reserve Building Project Overbudget; Trump Administration Sues New York City Mayor Eric Adams over His City's Sanctuary Laws; WNBA Players Demand Increase in Pay; "South Park" Satires President Trump; French President Emmanuel Macron Sues Podcast Host Candace Owens for Claiming His Wife Brigitte Macron is a Man. Aired 10-11a ET

Aired July 26, 2025 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ABBY PHILLIP, CNN ANCHOR: This morning, as Donald Trump brings back witches, hoaxes, and con jobs, the self-declared best six months in the history of presidencies gets a low score among Americans.

Plus --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nobody makes fun of me and gets away with it.

PHILLIP: A cartoon, a hard hat, and a predecessor give lessons in how to hit back.

Also, they dropped his charges. Now they're making Eric Adams a defendant again as the administration sues Gotham over it's welcome mat.

And you're what the French call les incompetent -- a world leader sues a MAGA mouth for calling his wife a man.

CANDACE OWENS, RIGHT-WING PODCAST HOST: I think you're sick. I think you're disgusting. And I am fully prepared to take on this battle.

PHILLIP: Here in studio Abel Maldonado, Jemele Hill, Kmele Foster, and Harry Enten. It's the weekend. Join the conversation at the "TABLE FOR FIVE".

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: Good morning. I'm Abby Phillip in New York.

Let's get right to what America is talking about. The X factor of the X files. We learned this week that Donald Trump indeed is in the Epstein files. The context isn't clear, of course, but even if he's mentioned, it doesn't signal any crime or any wrongdoing. However, Trump continues to act as if he's got something to hide. He's denying that he was even briefed about this when he was. He calls it a hoax when it was not, saying that everyone should focus on Bill Clinton and not him, even not ruling out a pardon for Epstein's accomplice.

And his new poll numbers show that he is not as invincible as he once was. Trump's approval has dropped to the lowest of his second term, and perhaps most notably, an all-time low of either term among independents. They're a big reason why he won the presidency again.

And also notable, he's starting to take hits from the very people who got him elected. That includes MAGA stars who are critical and skeptical of the Epstein excuses. Elon Musk, who continues to attack the administration's handling of this, and Rupert Murdoch, whose paper, "The Wall Street Journal", has broken several key stories shining light on this relationship between Trump and Epstein. Now listen to Charlamagne the God's theory on all of this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHARLAMAGNE THA GOD, AUTHOR, RADIO HOST: Trump got beef with Rupert Murdoch, Elon Musk, all these people who really helped put him in power. They don't seem to be rocking with him anymore. And I don't know if Trump realizes it. And I could be completely wrong, but if Trump is definitively named in the Epstein files in a damning way, credible allegations not just association, I believe this is the perfect excuse for Republican elites to stage a political coup and push him out.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: Provocative, to be sure. Jemele, what do you think?

JEMELE HILL, CONTRIBUTING WRITER, "THE ATLANTIC": Well, that was certainly a lot to take in. But listen, this is the downside of the strategy that he has imported that got him elected. His entire strategy with the Epstein files was to try to give people the strong impression that this was Bill Clinton, this was Democrats, this was something that they were trying to hide. And now that this has all turned on him, he won't be able to convince his base that this is a transparent investigation at all. Like, I don't know what it would take for them to believe that there's no cover up. I mean, you've convinced a lot of these people, part of your whole spiel is that the government isn't to be trusted. And then you're asking these same group of people to suddenly trust that this was all on the up and up, there is no list, that everything is as it appears, and they're just not going to buy it.

And what's always interesting to me is like what it takes people to get off the Trump train. It's not the xenophobia, it's not the racism, it's not the bigotry. It is this.

PHILLIP: But are they off the Trump train? I mean, I think this is the part of what --

(CROSS TALK) PHILLIP: I'm not so sure. Because I think that they really don't want to be off the Trump train. They want to be on the Trump train. They just want Trump to get in line with them on this issue.

HARRY ENTEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICS WRITER AND ANALYST: I think that's exactly right, Abby. Look, I think for Trump, it does feel a little bit like the lady doth protest a little too much, right? But when it comes to his approval rating with Republicans, it's basically as solid as it ever was.

[10:05:00]

You know, you put it up on the graphic before where you saw the smallest decline was among Republicans. If you look at the average of polls, his approval rating with Republicans still at about 90 percent. Of course, those same Republicans say they are dissatisfied with the amount of information that's been released so far. Everyone is dissatisfied with the amount of information that's been released so far with concern to the Epstein files. Everyone thinks that there's something more going on there. But then making that leap to all of a sudden that his base is moving away from him, at least at this particular point in the polling data we're not seeing it.

PHILLIP: I mean, so I don't want to suggest that this these numbers here we're going to talk about are all the result of the Epstein files. They're clearly not. There's a lot else going on. But he's dropping like a rock among independents in a way that I think any other politician would be like, oh, maybe something should raise a red flag here in terms of what he's doing. And then the small shift among Republicans, two percent according to this Gallup poll, not earth shattering, but how much lower can he afford to go if he is cratering with independents?

ABEL MALDONADO, (R) FORMER CALIFORNIA LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR: Well, President Trump is very knowledgeable when it comes to polls. There's no doubt about it. He looks at them every day and knows what's going on.

I'll be very sincere with you, Abby. I am from the standpoint of this case, this Epstein was in the past and let's move forward. There's been justice. But MAGA is not going there. And I say that with all heart because I was just telling Harry that I was at a Home Depot store, and I've had people come up to me and say, you know what? We want justice. And we didn't give Fauci a pass. We didn't give Obama a pass. We didn't give Hillary a pass. We're not going to give Epstein a pass. And I've been hearing that.

So obviously, when I hear Harry's polling go into the 80s, it has moved a little bit, but which hasn't caused concern for there's change. At the end of the day, look, Epstein is a creep, and Maxwell is worse, I believe. She's the one that brought little girls to him. So that is just horrible all the way around. So this notion of even pardon, who the heck is talking about pardon here? Abby, this is horrible.

So in my opinion, Congress is gone. They're going to hear from their constituents.

ENTEN: Oh, yes.

MALDONADO: And that's going to be the telltale right there.

PHILLIP: What are you hearing at the Home Depot?

(LAUGHTER)

KMELE FOSTER, EDITOR-AT-LARGE, "TANGLE": Well, you I haven't been to Home Depot recently.

ENTEN: He's a Costco man.

FOSTER: A moment ago, as you said, among independents, his numbers have been cratering. I think around the summer of last year, just around the time of the assassination attempt, the RNC convention, the energy surrounding Trump was a bit different. I think a lot of people were saying he seems to have mellowed out a bit. They were expecting him to be even more kind of sensational after the assassination attempt. And instead, he was kind of measured. People thought that they knew what they were getting with Trump. We've seen four years of him before. They did not expect the kind of shock and awe effort on the part of the administration throughout the first couple of months of this year.

They had a big agenda. They wanted to try to get really creative about the ways that they implemented things with immigration. They scored a number of victories very early on getting the illegal crossings down. But in terms of the way that they've gone about the enforcement, it's all dramatic performances. And I think it's alienated a great deal, a number of people, maybe not the base, but certainly the independents and certainly even Democrats who might have been somewhat sympathetic on some of those issues.

PHILLIP: Harry made the point he's protesting too much. I mean, he really is doing everything in his power to keep this story going. And now Republicans, conservatives, whatever you want to call her, like Laura Ingraham, are trying to shift the blame to Democrats.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LAURA INGRAHAM, FOX NEWS HOST: Coming up, Democrats pretend to care about an issue that has the podcast world going crazy. We're asking for transparency, but we have new news coming on about this as well. From the wall street journal, a new report tonight, next.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: I mean, Democrats I mean, they are certainly jumping on the political bandwagon on this. But the anger, I don't know that the anger is on the Democratic side, even in light of that. The anger is very clearly on the conservative side.

ENTEN: It is absolutely on the conservative side. Look this for, in my mind, for Democrats, it's it seems to be largely a political play, right.

PHILLIP: Low hanging fruit.

ENTEN: Low hanging fruit.

PHILLIP: It's an easy thing.

ENTEN: An easy thing. But they finally have an issue that seems to unite their party, which has been very much divided to historic levels since the election, and one that actually divides Republicans, who have been historically united since the election. So of course it's a political play. Democrats are going to make it. But whether or not their heart is truly in it, let's just say I'm a little suspicious.

PHILLIP: Well, some of that, I have to say could very well be -- again, the weird thing about the Epstein files is that I really think there are some very legitimate reasons not to release them, very legitimate. It's just that I think it's very suspicious to a lot of people, why all the people who wanted them released suddenly changed their tune once they've had a chance to look in them.

[10:10:01]

That's the part that I think has raised the Spidey sense of a lot of people who didn't really care that much about this issue.

HILL: And I think it's Trump's own responses is that he hasn't really done much to put out the fire and put out the suspicion around him, because as soon as it's brought up, he starts sort of railing against it. And I know he gets emotional about a lot of things, and then he goes to his very familiar buzzwords -- Obama, Hillary. And it's like your material is getting old. Like at this point, people don't want to hear that. They want to know, why is it that you appear to be hiding something if you're as innocent as you say it is, if it's just an association? He was just a friend, you didn't know about anything else, but you're not answering any real questions about it. And I'm sorry, especially in this society that we live in where people really do feed off conspiracy theories, that is not going to be good enough.

PHILLIP: So I have to show this handy little chart. We're going to break, but the mentions of Obama hit kind of a high as the mentions of Epstein also hit kind of a high. Just to show you that the kneejerk reaction to any negative news about Trump is to talk about Obama. Just the life that were living here in the United States of America.

Next from us, from a cartoon to Barack Obama, there were three notable instances this week of people standing up to Trump. So did it work?

Plus, the administration is now suing the very man they freed of charges here. Hear Eric Adams's response.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:16:09]

PHILLIP: Welcome back. Bending the knee versus flipping the bird, a notable contrast this week in how to stand up to Donald Trump. Columbia and Paramount both capitulating to his threats and demands. That is costing them a lot of cash, and it's also costing them a lot of integrity. On the other hand, "South Park" has ridiculed it's company and the president, putting them literally in bed with the devil. Former president Obama, who rarely speaks up, called Trump's treason claim ridiculous, nonsense, and Jerome Powell, who got what was supposed to be a trolling visit from his biggest critic, fact- checked Trump right to his face.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, (R) U.S. PRESIDENT: It looks like it's about $3.1 billion. It went up a little bit, or a lot. So the $2.7 is now $3.1. And --

JEROME POWELL, CHAIR, FEDERAL RESERVE: I'm not aware of that.

TRUMP: Yes, it just came out.

POWELL: Yes, I haven't heard that from anybody at the Fed.

You just added in a third building is what that is. That's a third building.

TRUMP: It's a building that's being built.

POWELL No. It's been -- it was built five years ago.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: Man, I mean, that will go down in history as one of the most awkward and unbelievable moments in television, presidential history. But Jerome Powell just stood there and was just like, no, that's it. No.

FOSTER: I mean, someone on his team handed him that document. Like so many of these scandals, so many of these embarrassing moments for the administration boil down to just rank incompetence on the part of someone who works for the president, one of the great people that he selected.

PHILLIP: That's a good point, because sometimes, I don't know. I mean, they know that this stuff is not true or accurate. Is it that they don't mind that he's embarrassed when people say this is not true, or it doesn't matter because as long as he says it, it's out into the world and then everybody just repeats it?

FOSTER: It's hard for me to divine the strategy here. I think that there's the degree of carelessness, I think, seems to explain a lot of this. I think Pam Bondi mistakes with the Epstein disclosures, that just seems like carelessness. But in other instances, what is it? The president described it as truthful hyperbole is what he talks about in "The Art of the Deal." You can say the same thing over and over again with a great deal of confidence. It doesn't happen to be true, but maybe it leans in the direction of what you wish was true, and that's enough. HILL: Well, I get the strategy, though. The strategy is that the

president treats everything like a show, like America is watching him as the star of the TV show of this is the presidency. And so it doesn't -- if you watch reality TV, as I do, you watch enough "Real Housewives," you do understand the performance. And I think what his people depend on is people not doing what Jerome Powell --

ENTEN: There it is.

HILL: -- is that most people who are in that position in front of the president, even if you feel like you are someone with status in your own right, you have to ask yourself in that moment, am I really trying to take on the president of the United States before a world audience? Most people choose to politely defer, even though their faces always tell the story. They look at him like he's insane. And Jerome Powell decided today ain't that day, and I ain't the one.

ENTEN: I just thought the physical nature of the whole thing was so hilarious, because Trump there, who is this big guy. And then you have Jerome Powell, I don't know the last time he wore a hard hat, it looked like it might have been the first time he ever wore one.

PHILLIP: Very little.

ENTEN: Very small. He pulls out the grandpa glasses. He's reading the information. You just wouldn't think that he would be the guy who would take it to the president of the United States, but he did exactly that. And that is why I think it was just such an amazing moment on live television.

PHILLIP: The other --

MALDONADO: I don't know if it was amazing, Abby. I think it was authentic.

(LAUGHTER)

PHILLIP: Yes.

ENTEN: The two can be the same.

PHILLIP: That's true.

MALDONADO: I think Jerome was very authentic. President Trump was very authentic.

PHILLIP: That was like, wow, I didn't think Jerome Powell could take that pat on the back.

(LAUGHTER)

PHILLIP: On the Paramount of it all, Abel, I mean, you know, I don't -- we don't know. Maybe we will never know what really went down between Paramount, the Trump administration, and the Stephen Colbert firing.

[10:20:05]

But, certainly, Stephen Colbert has taken it as a reason to fire back at Trump. So he's been doing that on his show. Then you have "South Park" and the "South Park" creators devoting this episode to lampooning Trump in a way only "South Park" can. It seems like Trump's desire to get the media to praise him, I don't know what he wants. It is backfiring in a way.

MALDONADO: Well, you know, I don't know if the timing of "South Park" coming out. I don't know if they thought that they knew the deal was going to happen that day. And it was --

PHILLIP: I don't know if they knew the deal was going to happen that day, but it was definitely in response to Colbert's firing.

MALDONADO: They went hard at President Trump. But they go hard at everybody.

FOSTER: That's right.

MALDONADO: Since 1990, they've been roasting everybody, and they're not going to stop. That's who they are. And they're very good at what they do. And I think Trump actually respects that. I mean, if you saw what he said, I think today, he said, you know what? Hey, satire or something, I can't exactly what he said.

HILL: He did call them fourth rate.

MALDONADO: I mean, but listen, people he respects and things are good, he'll call them fourth rate, Abby.

PHILLIP: But late-night hosts, I do think that they actually do roast more people than you give them credit for. Just because you're not paying as much attention when it's directed at some Democrats that maybe you can't even name or you don't care to name, it happens. But Trump only cares about the fact that they're coming after him.

HILL: Well, I mean, we know that the president is a little insecure. I mean, he behaves as an insecure person often. But I think there's a through line that we recognize with all these entities that have decided to sort of strike back, is leverage. That's the main entity. "South Park" has the leverage of $1 billion deal. You have even somebody like Colbert now in the position that he's in, he's decided to go scorched earth. Like, listen, I know I'm done. This show is being canceled. Every single day, I'm going to remind people about why the reason -- what is the reason that I'm leaving. And even with Jerome Powell, Jerome Powell was appointed. He knows he has the security of knowing what his position is.

PHILLIP: And the Fed is actually not beholden to the federal government.

HILL: Correct, he knows it.

PHILLIP: It's not that kind of entity. So that's what makes a difference. ENTEN: I would just add that I think it's so important. You know,

Colbert is really talking mostly to a Democratic audience, right? Republicans hate Stephen Colbert. And the polling data that I was looking at is like net favorable rating is like minus 40 points. But among Republicans, they actually have a positive net approval rating or favorable rating towards "South Park". So all of a sudden, the "South Park" message, the anti-Trump message is being geared towards a different audience than the Colbert messages. And it will be interesting to see whether or not this continues on. Is this a one day, two-day story, or is it something that exists on into the ether?

PHILLIP: Yes, it is interesting because now all those Republican leaning folks are hearing a very anti-Trump message coming from "South Park".

ENTEN: You got it.

PHILLIP: Up next for us, though, the New York City mayor, Eric Adams, has had his corruption charges dropped after suggesting that he'd help the administration with deportations. But now he is being sued by the very same administration. We'll discuss that next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:27:29]

PHILLIP: How's this for a twist? After dropping corruption charges against Eric Adams, the Trump administration just made him a defendant again. You'll remember the New York City mayor saw his case disappear after the administration said that they need help on deportations. Now the government is suing Adams in Gotham for their sanctuary city laws. And it comes just a week after DHS blamed him for the shooting of an off-duty border agent.

So predictably so, predictably so, this is happening. But the Trump administration sees an opening here, and they're doing it. And I think for Eric Adams, it sort of begs the question, what was this all for?

ENTEN: I would just say, if I was Eric Adams, I'm in the middle of trying to win what is a very uphill mayoral campaign. And I would quote McDonalds here and say I'm loving it insofar as now he actually can use Trump as a foil, because there are all these folks in New York City who hate Donald Trump, think Eric Adams is a puppet of Donald Trump, and now he can actually make the claim, I'm not a puppet of Donald Trump. The dude is literally suing me.

PHILLIP: It's a good point. It's a great point because he probably needs this more than he needs Trump to be on his side. My friend Nayeema Raza had Eric Adams in a timely interview this week on her show "Smart Girl, Dumb Questions." This was actually literally just moments before the news of this lawsuit happened, but she asked him specifically about whether he and Trump see eye-to-eye on sanctuary cities. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) NAYEEMA RAZA: Will you go to Washington to fight on immigration if you disagree? Or are you and Donald Trump actually aligned on how you see immigration?

MAYOR ERIC ADAMS, (D) NEW YORK CITY: Listen, he has his beliefs on immigration, I have mine. And I've made it clear of my support of sanctuary city, because if someone from any country come to New York and they walk in the store and buy a loaf of bread, they're paying those taxes. So if you pay taxes, those taxes go to the delivery of goods and services.

RAZA: They're going to hold that line for --

ADAMS: Without a doubt.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: First of all, Abel, I'm curious what you think about what he actually said there, which is that they should be able to go to the police department and report a crime and not be deported or arrested in that moment. They should be able to count on the city for services because they are paying taxes.

MALDONADO: I actually kind of agree with that, to be very sincere. I mean, at the end of the day, you have a situation where we have a completely broken immigration system in America. It is just broken system, and no one is fixing it. So, you know, when Eric Adams says, Mayor Adams says, you know, I want them to come and report, yes, if we had an immigration system that worked, we would have people that would be here legally, temporarily, and they would report crimes.

[10:30:07]

They would buy at the stores. They would go out at night just like I do. But we have a situation here where people have decided not to fix immigration, Abby. And let's just give sanctuary to these folks that are here illegally. And I think it is a byproduct of a complete broken immigration system that no party wants to fix.

PHILLIP: I guess what he is saying the sanctuary status of New York is in response to the fact that these people are here, regardless of whether the system is broken or fixed. And New York as a city, he's arguing, has to deal with that. Do you think he's right about that?

MALDONADO: And we have Tom Homan -- and we have Tom Homan who wants to come in and apprehend people who have criminal records. And they can't because New York protects them under the sanctuary city law. Los Angeles protects them, San Francisco protects them. The state of California protects them. It's a problem. It's a broken issue, and we've got to fix it, and we've got to fix it now via an immigration system.

FOSTER: And Mayor Adams actually has a nuanced view on this. I mean, he's advocating for sanctuary cities, but he has tried to make some inroads in terms of making some reforms that would make it easier for people with criminal records to be deported, but hasn't been able to really gain any traction there. So -- and I think in that respect, to the extent he has complicated ideas about this, he's probably in line with the views of plenty of New Yorkers who have seen the pressure that has come with having an influx of migrants here in the city or illegals here in the city. I feel uncomfortable talking about it that way. And I think that's an important point here for all of the criticism he's received, he's actually being kind of thoughtful about his approach on this particular issue. And I think you're right, the fact that he's being sued probably does play --

PHILLIP: One quick thing. This is a crazy story there. There was a prisoner swap between people that Trump sent to CECOT, that prison in -- that prison in CECOT, and and traded them for people in Venezuela who were Americans. One of those people was a convicted criminal of a triple homicide. According to "The New York Times," in 2016, when he arrived at the lawyers office and did not find his target, he killed two women there as well as a man who he mistakenly believed was the lawyer. Now that guy has been swapped back into the United States. He happens to be an American, but he is a convicted criminal, and apparently he is just on the street. So are we just sending people who cross the border illegally into prison in Venezuela and then bringing back criminals and putting them on the street?

HILL: I mean, to your point about it being broken, I mean, this is this is the issue when you have a very complicated problem but you're trying to use a very simple and barbaric solution to it. It's not obviously barbaric to get a murderer off the street, but I think the commonality is like everybody wants criminals off the street. I don't think anybody is fighting for the right for criminals to be here. But it's always things get complicated when we're talking about process and order. And so what I would say is that instead of both parties trying to get a political win out of it, actually try to fix the system so that it makes it better than everybody.

PHILLIP: Imagine that.

HILL: Imagine that, because everybody is always in it for, well, we have to make the other party look bad, or we can't agree to this because then we'll be capitulating. Forget all that. Like we have a problem in this country, and the only way it will get fixed is if both parties come together and stop trying to trade political wins.

PHILLIP: Yes, it's hard to see what it's going to take to get Republicans in particular, who I think have really benefited from this issue, to come to the table and say let's actually resolve it. We're not close to that point at this moment.

But up next for us, WNBA stars are very loudly demanding a raise, but critics say it's a broken league, while supporters say those critics are morons.

(LAUGHTER)

PHILLIP: We'll discuss. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:38:29]

PHILLIP: Pay us what you owe us -- that is the tagline that the WNBA players wore this week before their All-Star game. They're demanding a bigger piece of the revenue pie. And it makes sense given interest is up in the league, and so too are TV ratings, merchandise sales, and franchise values. And yet the maximum salary is $250,000. But critics say that the players don't have a leg to stand on since the league never turned a profit. Listen to how Dave Portnoy of "Barstool Sports" responded to it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVE PORTNOY, "BARSTOOL SPORTS": This isn't Like, oh, we Feel bad for women, so let's pay them. This is marketing and the ability to make money on this league. And right now, it's endless. If you don't get that, you're a moron.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: I mean, I don't know, I think there is an opportunity to make quite a lot of money off this league right now, Jemele. So?

HILL: Listen, you might have to let me sizzle on this one, because I really have -- it's really been bothering me hearing the conversation around the t-shirts and the women demanding some better pay in this league.

They get nine percent of the league revenue. By comparison, the NBA is a 50-50 split on basketball related income, and the NHL is 40 percent. And UFC, which has a terrible track record of paying its fighters, is between 16 and 20 percent. People are paying attention to "The New York Post" report that said that the WNBA was losing $40 million. Note the timing of that. That story came out three days later the players announced that they were opting out of their collective bargaining agreement. Gee, where have we seen this before? Literally every time there's labor tension between players and owners, you know what the owners always claim? We're not making enough money. We're losing money. In 2011, when the NBA lockout, the NBA owners claimed they were losing $300 million. That's what they said. In 1999 when there was a lockout, they said that they were losing -- that 80 percent of the teams in the NBA weren't profitable.

This is how the game is played. Convince the people who tend to side with billionaires, which I don't understand, that the athletes are asking for something unreasonable, that they're asking for something that they don't deserve. The number you need to know is this -- 10 of the 13 WNBA franchises are now valued at $250 million or higher. The Golden State Valkyries, which is in their first year, $50 million buy in, valued now at $500 million. That's the number that is important is what is the possibility for this league. And next year their $2.2 billion media rights deal kicks in. They have a total media package that's probably about $3 billion. That's why they're asking for more money. That is why they deserve more money.

PHILLIP: If they don't do it now, then honestly it might be too late, because there's a reason that -- HILL: You negotiate up, not down.

PHILLIP: Everybody is investing in the WNBA right now, and for good reason. And so the players are saying, hold up. We want a little bit more of the pie. I don't know, it seems rational and reasonable to me. I don't know.

ENTEN: I mean, 10 years ago nobody in my friend group were talking about the WNBA. Now we all talk about the WNBA. In the last 20 years, the top five broadcasts, in the last 20 years, all of them, I believe, were in the last two years, OK, at least when it comes to the regular season. There are stars now that people actually recognize in the WNBA. Obviously, Caitlin Clark, but Angel Reese as well, and the list goes on from there.

This league is only doing as well as it's doing because of the players. Nobody cares about who the owners of the league are. They care about the players. They care about the stars. I think it's a very reasonable ask for them to say, you know what, these folks are making this league, the top stars should be making more than $250,000 a year. No, we're not saying they should be making the same as the NBA stars.

HILL: They aren't saying that either.

ENTEN: Exactly.

HILL: Yes.

PHILLIP: Yes.

ENTEN: They are saying we should make a reasonable living giving our stars --

PHILLIP: I have to play Shaq real quick. Let me just play him.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHAQUILLE O'NEAL, FORMER NBA PLAYER: What did you say?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's $200,000.

O'NEAL: That's a disgrace. Angel Reese should be making $10 million a year.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She's still in her rookie contract. So yes, it's like --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's $70,000 to $80,000.

O'NEAL: I never knew this.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Really?

O'NEAL: Yes, really. I never knew that. So now we got to lower the rim. Stop it. You want to make more money, let Caitlin go baseline and fingertip dunk. And then Angel the way she do her layup like that, let her turn that wrist over one time and throw it down. Come on, man, trust me on this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: Oh, he was almost there.

(LAUGHTER)

PHILLIP: He was almost there.

FOSTER: You don't think he has a point, that the league might be a little more exciting if there were some dunks? There was just a little bit more excitement?

PHILLIP: Is the point that you lower the rim so that it can just, you can create a little bit more theater out of the league, and then they'll be making more money?

FOSTER: Absolutely.

PHILLIP: So it's not enough that they have that there's all this drama between the players. Like we just want more, we want more --

HILL: And you say all that. What was the highest rated event at All- Star weekend? The three point contest. It's not the dunk contest.

FOSTER: Sure.

HILL: And you know, you're doing -- it is, nowadays that it is.

FOSTER: We haven't seen some of the best players participate in the dunk contest in recent years. But back in the day the dunk contest was a lot more exciting. And certainly that's the thing that people want to see the highlights of after the game. Steph is exciting, but there's nothing like watching someone just go up, I mean, and really sky.

MALDONADO: I like the dunking, too.

HILL: In fairness, to give the owners a slight break, is that --

MALDONADO: A break?

HILL: A slight break in this sense, I don't I don't think their intention is to try to continue to underpay these women. They know from a business standpoint, it makes a lot of sense. Let us not forget the whole reason that Brittney Griner wound up being detained in Russia is because she had to go to Russia to make more money. She was making seven figures -- exactly. And a lot of players do that. And to me, from an optics standpoint, it looks really bad that Russia with its human rights record, is able to pay women seven figure salaries to play basketball and we can't figure out a way to do that here in America.

PHILLIP: I mean, trust me, they will figure this out.

HILL: Yes. PHILLIP: They will figure this out.

HILL: They will, definitely.

PHILLIP: Because there's a lot of money for everybody to make.

So next for us, though, a leader of a major U.S. ally, Emmanuel Macron, he is suing a far-right conspiracy theorist for spreading rumors about his family. We'll discuss the diplomatic dilemma. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:49:21]

PHILLIP: At this point, far right hosts are used to being sued over conspiracies, but this time the lawsuit is coming from the leader of a NATO ally. France's first couple are suing Candace Owens for claiming Brigitte Macron is a man. Lawyers say that they warned Owens a year ago to stop it, but she keeps spewing these claims, including again this week when Owens vowed to fight the lawsuit.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CANDACE OWENS, RIGHT-WING PODCAST HOST: If you need any more evidence that Brigitte Macron is definitely a man, it is just what is happening right now. The idea that you would file this lawsuit is all of the proof that you need.

I am fully prepared to take on this battle on behalf of the entire world. I will see you in court.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[10:50:04]

PHILLIP: That is amazing to me, Harry.

HILLS: That's one word for it.

PHILLIP: Your face just says it all.

ENTEN: It's got to be one of the dumbest arguments I've ever heard, first off. Second off, I mean, not only is she stupid, but she's also disgusting, right? I mean, Candace Owens has got to be one of the most disgusting folks who ever gets airplay on any major network.

PHILLIP: And this is actually not even the worst of Candace Owens.

ENTEN: No. She's an antisemite.

PHILLIP: But that says quite a lot.

ENTEN: Yes, she's an antisemite. She's anti-gay. She's an antisemite. She has said stuff about the history of slavery in this country that's disgusting. Yes, it's funny insofar that her statements make no sense. But when we

really get to the core of the issue, she's just a disgusting human being. And that's the bottom line.

HILL: Yes. I don't really like talking about this person, but what I will say is that I don't understand how she thinks this is winnable, because you do realize that you're going to have to show some level of proof behind what you say and then show, at least the way I understand most defamation cases work, that you have to prove there was no intentional malice. And there's clearly a lot of intentional malice that is behind this. And I just don't -- what was ever the upside in starting such a terrible conspiracy theory about this particular person?

PHILLIP: Let me just read a little bit what the lawsuit says, what the claims are that Owens makes in her "Becoming Brigitte" series, which is wild. It says that Mrs. Macron was born a man, stole another person's identity, and transitioned to become Brigitte. Mrs. Macron and President Macron are blood relatives committing incest. President Macron was chosen to be the president of France as part of the CIA operated MKUltra program, or a similar mind control program.

This is absolute lunacy. And yet --

HILL: She's on the train to crazy-town.

PHILLIP: Can I just say for a second? This is a person who, I guess some people on the right still listen to, but has become famous because she is famous in politically conservative circles. That is incredible. Incredible.

FOSTER: I have a very difficult time being empathetic and trying to understand exactly what she's thinking. You said a moment ago, like, what is she thinking with this, with this lawsuit? Perhaps she imagines that she can settle and she'll only have to pay a little bit. And in the moment, she can kind of preserve some of her reputation amongst her audience by talking tough. Well, she does have a reputation amongst -- the people who are faithful to her, who watch her. And there are millions of people who pay attention to what Candace Owens says. Otherwise, she wouldn't be doing it.

PHILLIP: Next for us, the panel's unpopular opinions, what they're not afraid to say out loud. But first, a programing note. See how the legendary Live Aid concerts all came together in an all new episode of the CNN original series "Live Aid, When Rock N Roll Took on the World." It airs Sunday at 9:00 p.m. only on CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:57:39]

PHILLIP: We're back, and it's time for your unpopular opinions. You each have 30 seconds to tell us yours. Abel, you're up.

MALDONADO: Well, I wanted to talk to you about broccoli. And if broccoli -- (LAUGHTER)

MALDONADO: If broccoli had a dating profile, it'd say here for a good time, not for a tasty time.

(LAUGHTER)

HILL: Wow. Broccoli caught a stray.

PHILLIP: My four-year-old might agree with you on that one.

HILL: Tipping culture is out of control. I was at LAX recently. I went to buy a snack. I won't even talk about the fact that Cheez-Its are now basically $10 damn dollars. I won't even talk about that, right.

PHILLIP: Let's talk about it.

HILL: OK, but when I went to check out, there was a line, would you like to tip? Now, I realize some of these machines, they automatically are saying that. But when they're putting them in atmospheres where there should be no tip, it's putting a lot of pressure on you, you're like, do they --

PHILLIP: It's like a mean thing.

HILL: It is. It's like, do they deserve a tip for stocking the shelves, which is something that they should normally do anyway? So whether it be the coffee shop, whether it be the grocery store, like, I'm so sick of the over-tip-ification of America. And when you think about the roots of it, the fact that it's rooted in slavery, on top of that, why are we even doing this? Yes, tipping culture is rooted in slavery. That's what they --

MALDONADO: No taxes on tips.

HILL: After the Civil War, when black people were porters and had a lot of jobs that required a tip rather than pay them a fair wage, that's what created tipping culture.

PHILLIP: What I would say is people who deserve a tip, tip them generously. People who didn't do anything for a tip, there's no need to tip the person who is standing behind the counter where you just picked up a pack of gum and paid $5 for it.

ENTEN: I concur entirely, Abby.

PHILLIP: Harry?

ENTEN: My unpopular opinion of the week is that in an age in which we're talking about putting the sugar back in Coca-Cola, neither Coca- Cola nor Pepsi-Cola are the best colas out there. In fact, Royal Crown Cola, in my opinion, RC Cola is my top cola. And I will, note, I will note that this little diatribe from me, not in fact sponsored by Royal Crown Cola, but I give it two thumbs up.

HILL: And magically a case will show up for you after this show.

FOSTER: And mine is perhaps entirely too serious, but I keep hearing people talk about misinformation and algorithms doing all sorts of bad things. I'm pretty confident that we spend way too much time talking about that and not the crisis of evangelical certainty that we actually seem to be enduring. People believe things in this rabid way, and they go out and they look for the confirmation. They have this confirmation bias. They're looking for evidence to support beliefs they already have. We worry too much about people lying on the Internet and not enough about people who are desperate to believe lies.

PHILLIP: That's a good point. I think they're probably, yes, they're the problem, the people who are believing the lies but don't know that they're lies.

FOSTER: Who sometimes are us.

PHILLIP: All right, everyone, thank you very much, and thanks for watching "TABLE FOR FIVE". You can catch me every weeknight at 10:00 p.m. eastern with our News Night roundtable, and any time, of course, on your favorite social media, X, Instagram, and TikTok.

In the meantime, CNN's coverage continues right now.