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CNN Live Event/Special

CNN Saturday Morning Table for Five. Grand Jury Indicts Former FBI Director James Comey after President Trump Presses Justice Department to Pursue Prosecution; President Trump Criticized for Heated Rhetoric in Wake of Shooting at ICE Facility; Singer/Songwriter Bruce Springsteen Indicates New Party May be Needed to Replace Democratic Party Due to Its Current Unpopularity; President Trump's Speech at United Nations General Assembly Draws Criticism from International News Media. Aired 10-11a ET.

Aired September 27, 2025 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ABBY PHILLIP, CNN ANCHOR: Today, the first major stop on Donald Trump's vengeance tour hits the James Comey station.

JAMES COMEY, FORMER FBI DIRECTOR: I'm innocent. We will not live on our knees.

PHILLIP: The former FBI director fights back in an unprecedented prosecution.

Plus, while tensions remain high after another act of political violence, Trump is accused of inciting more with his words.

DONALD TRUMP, (R) U.S. PRESIDENT: It's going to go back on them. I mean, bad things happen when they play these games.

PHILLIP: Also, from escalators and teleprompters to cows and wind.

TRUMP: It blows. And no matter what you're doing down here, the air up here tends to get very dirty.

PHILLIP: How the world sees the American president versus here at home.

TRUMP: Your countries are going to hell.

PHILLIP: And Bruce Springsteen says while MAGA is living it's glory days, Democrats are dancing in the dark. Why The Boss thinks America needs a new party.

Here in studio, Scott Jennings, Alyssa Farah Griffin, Ahmed Baba, and Adam Mockler.

It's the weekend. Join the conversation at the "TABLE FOR FIVE".

(END VIDEO CLIP) PHILLIP: Hi everyone. I'm Abby Phillip in New York.

America reaches another pivotal moment for this presidency and the presidency's power -- the rule of law and also political vengeance. He's six foot eight, and the left thinks that he cost them an election. The right thinks that he is the deep state enemy number one, and he apparently likes long walks on the beach and seashell formations. But right now, James Comey's walks are taking him to a courthouse. A grand jury indicting the former FBI director on charges of lying to Congress, something he vehemently denies, and something that previous prosecutors refused to pursue.

But enter Donald Trump, of course. Just before the deadline to charge Comey, the president publicly ordered his attorney general to prosecute him. And despite Pam Bondi's reservations, the case was taken to a grand jury by Trump's former lawyer, who, by the way, has never prosecuted a case, ever. Now, Trump installed her just last week after another prosecutor that he appointed couldn't find evidence against Letitia James, another of Trump's foes.

Now, on top of all of that, Trump is giving live commentary throughout this whole ordeal on social media, which legal experts say could doom the indictment before it even begins. And as for Comey, he says he is ready to fight.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAMES COMEY, FORMER FBI DIRECTOR: We will not live on our knees, and you shouldn't either. My heart is broken for the Department of Justice, but I have great confidence in the federal judicial system. And I'm innocent. So let's have a trial.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: So, Alyssa, you know, this is what Aaron Blake, our colleague here, wrote about this, "The president has taken rapid and drastic steps to remove any obstacles within the government to enforce loyalty, to punish his enemies, to quell the possibility of public dissent that might arise from his moves. Trump is creating a system around him that appears increasingly devoid of friction with the ultimate goal, it seems, to allow him to get whatever he wants." Even if that means firing the very people that he just put in various positions because they, I mean, I presume you don't get to that point unless you really don't think that there is nothing that you can do there.

ALYSSA FARAH GRIFFIN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes. Listen, I've said it many times. I think that Donald Trump is really trying to stretch what you can interpret the executive powers to be. But to the best of my knowledge, him appointing this new, this Lindsey Halligan woman, is well within his authority as the president. It doesn't feel right. It doesn't necessarily smell right. You don't like the president weighing in on who should be charged and why he thinks so. It's also going to undermine the case. but he does have the right to put her there. What I think is interesting that's not necessarily being considered in

this is I don't know that Trump is going for a conviction in the Comey case. I think this is likely more about he feels like his enemies went after him, tied him up in court, tied him up in legal bills, and he wants people to feel that same pain. I've not heard a legal expert say, based on what we know, they think Comey is going to be convicted. But it's about silencing people, and it's about making them feel a lot of pain along the way.

PHILLIP: Yes. And I mean, look, I don't think anyone is disputing that he can appoint Lindsey Halligan. I think that the issue here is that he made it clear exactly why he appointed her, which is to find a case against people that are on his enemies list.

[10:05:04]

And if you're James Comey, one of the first things you're going to present to a judge is that very fact that Trump actually called this out, and then repeatedly in the last couple of days, including on Friday, has talked explicitly about his desire to see Comey and others prosecuted. Let me just play what he said on Friday about this. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, (R) U.S. PRESIDENT: It's not a list, but I think there'll be others. I mean, they're corrupt. These were corrupt, radical left Democrats.

They'll be others. Look, it was -- that's my opinion. They weaponized the Justice Department like nobody in history. What they've done is terrible. And so I would, I hope, frankly, I hope there are others, because you can't let this happen to a country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: He seems to be kneecapping his own prosecutors here.

SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, look, that's the thing. There's a system. And the system includes grand juries and juries of ordinary Americans who get in a room and make decisions. He can't order people to be indicted, and he can't order people to be convicted. He can express his opinion.

In the case of Comey, grand jurors in a very liberal jurisdiction got together and decided that the evidence did warrant charges. Comey will go to trial, and then a jury of his peers will decide whether he is guilty or not. The president can't do anything about that. He can make commentary on it. I'm not sure if it's wise or not wise to do that, or if it will matter at all.

But ultimately, I'll just say what Jim Comey said when Donald Trump was indicted. It's a good day for the rule of law because we have a system, and the system is in place and the system is working as it was designed with average, ordinary Americans making decisions about how our laws will be enforced. AHMED BABA, SUBSTACK AUTHOR, "AHMED BABA'S NEWSLETTER": But, you

know, you said that he can't actually order the indictment of someone. I think he just proved that he could. I think what he did, the series of events that took place here, we have to actually be clear about what happened, right? He tried to pressure Erik Siebert at the Eastern District of Virginia to pursue this prosecution. He did not. The U.S. prosecutors there said they did not see enough evidence. So he forces him out. He publicly declares to Pam Bondi, you need to target these political enemies, specifically labeling James Comey.

And then, right after that, installs Lindsey Halligan, a former insurance lawyer with no prosecutorial experience, to go in there. And then within days, Comey is indicted even after rank and file prosecutors say they gave her a declination memo that said this is why we don't think there's enough evidence. So I don't think this is just the process playing out. I think this is Donald Trump explicitly abusing his power and directing a prosecution of a political enemy.

JENNINGS: You said we have to be very clear about what happened, and then you left out the most critical part, where a prosecutor has to go into a grand jury, present the evidence, and make the case why charges are warranted. And the grand jury has to agree with that. In this case, they did.

Now, I don't know if he'll be convicted or not, but you can't leave out and deny that there's a critical step where average, ordinary Americans get put in a room, and they ultimately have to decide, does a case go or does it not go? And then they will decide whether you're guilty or whether you're not guilty. That is an important part of the process that he cannot really alter or change.

PHILLIP: Just worth noting, I mean, two things. One, there was a third charge that the grand jury said no to. But also, I mean, this is, you know, you probably will hear a lot about this as this proceeds. Probable cause is what you need to get a charge, which is a very low bar. Beyond a reasonable doubt is what you need to actually convict. But to Alyssa's point, that may not be the point of the message that's being sent here.

ADAM MOCKLER, COMMENTATOR, MEIDASTOUCH NETWORK: Yes, Donald Trump has done this with a few people. He directly calls out their name online on his Truth Social, and then within days you see them either targeted, their show gets pulled off, they get indicted.

And when it comes to Erik Siebert, you can sit here and argue that, you know, Trump had nothing to do with this. But it's so clear that he was putting his thumb on the scale when he fired Erik Siebert. And then, what was it, six days before the statute of limitations are up this new federal prosecutor is rushing this through.

And I agree we should let the process play out. It's fine to let it go through a grand jury, but can you at least concede that Trump was putting his thumb on the scale when he posted Comey's name, what was it, four days before Comey was indicted?

JENNINGS: I don't think anyone is disputing that he thinks James Comey --

MOCKLER: He put his thumb on the scale, though.

JENNINGS: -- is a bad person who deserves to be investigated. And if a grand jury so chooses.

MOCKLER: Did Trump put his thumb on the scale, though?

JENNINGS: He has never denied that. He has been very clear about it, has he not?

GRIFFIN: Isn't this all just kind of exhausting for the American public? Like Trump did run on we shouldn't weaponize the DOJ.

JENNINGS: It's exhausting now.

GRIFFIN: It was exhausting when Biden did it. It was exhausting --

JENNINGS: Now we're exhausted.

GRIFFIN: No, no, no, I criticized it when Joe Biden did it. But now he's choosing to do the exact same thing at a much grander scale, all while there are fewer jobs than there are people unemployed right now. Why is the --

(CROSS TALK)

GRIFFIN: He had a trial.

BABA: Can anyone point to one single example of President Joe Biden, privately or publicly, in any documented evidence of our reality directing his attorney general, Merrick Garland, to prosecute his political opponents, let alone protect his own son who got indicted under his watch?

[10:10:07]

When did --

JENNINGS: What? He pardoned him.

BABA: Show me the answer to when did he direct Merrick Garland to prosecute Donald Trump?

MOCKLER: I want to hear an answer that.

JENNINGS: He publicly, in a "Politico" story, was reported to have been fuming to anyone who would listen that Merrick Garland was not moving fast enough.

MOCKLER: He publicly was fuming privately? Is that what you said?

JENNINGS: No. He asked for --

BABA: Did he tell Merrick Garland prosecute these specific people?

(CROSS TALK)

PHILLIP: I think this is super important. So are you suggesting that because Joe Biden was angry about something but didn't express it to Merrick Garland, that that constitutes --

JENNINGS: You don't know whether he did or he didn't, but I know it was put in a story.

PHILLIP: But do you know?

JENNINGS: This is what you guys just said? He says things out loud. Joe Biden said things out loud, or had it reported in a "Politico" so

people would hear it.

PHILLIP: I think that the really simple factual issue here with this idea that Democrats, Joe Biden did this to Trump.

JENNINGS: I didn't bring up Joe Biden. I'm the person who injected this.

PHILLIP: Where's the proof? Don't we need proof that that actually happened?

GRIFFIN: To be honest I think we either need to agree that weaponizing the DOJ against political adversaries is bad or it's not. I think it's bad regardless of who is doing it. I think that Donald Trump ran on not doing it, and he is directly doing it here.

JENNINGS: Are you sure Comey is not guilty?

GRIFFIN: No. And I'm not prejudging that. I've talked about this extensively. If there is any wrongdoing --

(CROSS TALK)

GRIFFIN: I think that putting what looks like a D.M. to your attorney general on Truth Social and being like, you only got a few days -- it ain't good.

MOCKLER: I'm going to ask for them to point out either any example of Joe Biden doing this? No example. Scott Jennings said, I don't know. I don't know anything. That's always your fallback. Donald Trump --

JENNINGS: I literally said there was a story.

MOCKLER: Do you remember what Biden said, hey, Merrick, can you go after this person? It didn't happen. You have no examples.

JENNINGS: It's literally in the news. I'm sorry. I know you were like 12, but it happened.

BABA: It was never reported.

JENNINGS: It was reported.

BABA: It was never reported that he told he told Merrick Garland to indict. That was never reported. We know that. And also I just have to say --

PHILLIP: Is that what the reporting said or not?

JENNINGS: Yes. No, there was a story.

PHILLIP: The reporting said that he told Merrick Garland that --

JENNINGS: The point of the story was that Joe Biden was mad and he was angry. And the point of the story was that it would get out so that they would feel pressure to move on it.

PHILLIP: And he told who?

JENNINGS: It was in the it was done in the reporting.

PHILLIP: I just think, again --

JENNINGS: The point was it for it to get out.

PHILLIP: Listen, I think Alyssa's point is well taken. If there's weaponization of the DOJ happening, obviously that is inappropriate. But I also think that the way that the system works is that, you know, individual prosecutors make their judgments. And maybe those judgments are tainted by politics, but it's not supposed to come straight from the White House.

JENNINGS: There all tainted by politics.

PHILLIP: Sure, sure.

JENNINGS: Every one.

PHILLIP: They're human beings, right? In the George W. Bush administration, in the Joe Biden administration, in the Donald Trump administration. But even in the George W. Bush administration, we're not talking about the president calling up his attorney general and saying, please prosecute this person, or God forbid, sending a public message, a tweet, a literal message to that -- directed at that person, saying, prosecute these people. Those things didn't happen, and it is relevant.

JENNINGS: It is, because if a grand jury does not believe that the evidence warrants a charge, as you pointed out, they didn't do a charge on one of the requests, and they did on two others. They obviously carefully looked at it. That has nothing to do with his post and everything to do with the evidence.

PHILLIP: What does have to do with his post is that he removed personnel who wouldn't do what he wanted them to do and put in personnel who would. It's as simple as that.

GRIFFIN: But to be honest, even if Comey ends up being convicted and did engage in wrongdoing, I still think it's wildly inappropriate for the president of the United States to direct the Department of Justice to investigate someone.

JENNINGS: He is the head of the executive branch. He is the head of the executive branch.

GRIFFIN: But you do not direct -- there should be a separation from the Department of Justice. That has that has been the standard in American for 100 years. Scott, if Obama had tweeted this about his about a former FBI director from the Bush administration, you and I would have -- our hair would have been on fire. We would have been like this is insane.

JENNINGS: You guys are overlooking that the process exists.

PHILLIP: All right, next for us, the president accused of inciting violence after another deadly act of political violence just this week.

Plus, Bruce Springsteen sounds like he's given up on Democrats to fight Trump. Hear what his solution to that is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:19:12]

PHILLIP: Donald Trump is being accused of inciting violence after his warning to Democrats. This in response to the new developments in the deadly attack at an ICE facility. The feds say that the suspect left behind handwritten notes that showed his hatred for the government and for ICE, one of them reading in part, "Hopefully this will give ICE agents real terror to think is there a sniper with A.P. rounds on that roof?" And when he asked -- was asked about the shooting, Donald Trump blamed the left and warned of retaliation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, (R) U.S. PRESIDENT: The radical left is causing the problem. They're out of control. They're saying things. And they're really dumb people. I mean, I look at Crockett, I look at some of these people. They're very low I.Q. people, actually. But the radical left is causing this problem, not the right. The radical left.

[10:20:02]

And it's going to get worse. And ultimately, it's going to go back on them. I mean, bad things happen when they play these games. And I'll give you a little clue. The right is a lot tougher than the left. But the right is not doing this. They're not doing it. And they better not get them energized.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: That was an odd thing to say, I mean, in this moment. The point about the kind of anti ICE nature of the shooting is taken, right? We know that. But then for him to say it might come back to them, I'm not sure that that is what's right here.

MOCKLER: Yes, I'm pretty tired of conservatives gaslighting about the current political environment and Donald Trump's rhetoric, when all of this escalation can be traced back to his entrance into American politics. His claim to fame was saying that Obama wasn't born in America. He was the first presidential candidate to have his crowd chant, "Lock her up" about a political opponent. You can bring up the insurrection. Even in the past few weeks, my home city of Chicago, he posted a photo of Chicago being invaded by the Department of War.

So the broader point here is Donald Trump endlessly deflects and tries to blame it on the other side when he is the one responsible for amping up the tension in America. And I've spent all of my formative years, throughout high school, throughout college, looking to the president, who I'm supposed to be able to look up to, and seeing somebody who is trying to place blame on the left, who is amping up the rhetoric constantly. And yes, it's not good.

JENNINGS: So you think it's Donald Trump's fault that a deranged leftist climbed up to the top of a building and shot up the ICE facility not once now, but twice, in Texas?

MOCKLER: I think it's Donald Trump's fault that America has gotten to this heated place. I think that.

JENNINGS: No responsibility for the for the radicalization on the left that's causing this violent.

MOCKLER: That 29-year-old was radicalized by online communities and online algorithms. I'm not going to blame that directly on Trump. But he was caught in a lot of online video game algorithms and all these communities. Donald Trump.

JENNINGS: But it's Trump's fault?

MOCKLER: Donald Trump ten years ago, Donald Trump amped up the tension in America. It's just --

JENNINGS: So he ran ten years ago. And this guy then ten years later, somehow you're connecting -- can't you just take responsibility for it? On the left --

GRIFFIN: Let's not do the, like, he has to take responsibility because he's a Democrat.

MOCKLER: I'm a 22-year-old YouTuber. You want me to take more responsibility than the president of the United States?

JENNINGS: I want you to understand -- I want you to understand that we are in the middle of an epidemic of leftwing violence. They're attacking ICE. They shot Charlie. It's happening all over the country. We have these Free Palestine people running around trying to burn down the Pennsylvania governor's mansion on and on.

MOCKLER: And maybe the president is not --

JENNINGS: It is not Trump's fault that the left has radicalized to the point of saying, we're done talking, and were going to start shooting.

PHILLIP: Scott, is Trump amping down the tensions? JENNINGS: Amping down the tensions?

PHILLIP: Is he taking the tensions down? Is he trying to do that?

JENNINGS: I think he's mad that his friend got murdered a few -

MOCKLER: The job of the president is to tone down the rhetoric.

BABA: Yes. You know, number one on the Trump front, we need unifying leadership from the top. You didn't hear Obama, Dylann Roof shot up a black church. He sang amazing grace. He didn't say, I will go after my enemies, number one.

Number two, we see the data indicates otherwise. Yes, there is left wing violence. Right wing violence, the Cato Institute, far from some far left liberal bastion, said 63 percent of the murders from political terrorism between 1975 and September 11th, 2025 was from the right. Right. The second below that is jihadists at 23 percent. So the data doesn't, and also the DOJ scrubbed the website that said more of the violence comes from the right.

And again, I actually don't want to get into the game of blaming, because I actually agree with Adam's take from the other night when he talked about the acceleration of radicalization online. There's a broader problem with young men, incel culture that's going on here, that's not just like -- obviously, we need our political leaders to be more representative of, like, positive masculinity and of not just blaming the other side. And, you know, every time there's an instance of violence saying, you know what? I'm going to prosecute Soros now next. That's not the way to do it. So I think Adam is right. It comes from the top down. And I think at the same time --

JENNINGS: So now we have two people here who are saying it's Donald Trump's fault that someone shot up an ICE facility.

MOCKLER: Nobody is saying that.

JENNINGS: You literally said that. And then you agreed with it.

MOCKLER: You know what I said? I said Donald Trump created this environment over the past decade. You sat here and said, I need to take responsibility. I'm a 22-year-old YouTuber. You hold me to a higher standard than the man --

JENNINGS: I'm holding you to your standard of your punditry.

MOCKLER: Donald Trump is vomiting vitriol out of his mouth about how the other party is weak and evil, and he just said, the party of hate, evil and Satan. You blind yourself to that, and you're focusing on a 22-year-old YouTuber.

GRIFFIN: Since I've been in politics, I was working for members who were with Scalise during the congressional shooting. We didn't know if they were OK for many hours. I remember what happened. People didn't say, oh, he was a Bernie bro, so we're going to come for the Bernie bros. There was this nature of, we are going to realize something terrible happened and we're going to move on. You pointed to Dylann Roof, which was political in the way that Obama handled it.

[10:25:00]

But the Minnesota lawmakers, Paul Pelosi -- I understand why the right feels like they're the victims more. I asked somebody very close to me who is a big MAGA person, and they said, well, they tried to kill the president twice and they just shot Charlie Kirk. Everyone in America knows those two things happened. Most Americans can't name those Minnesota lawmakers. They probably think something happened to Paul Pelosi and they don't really know.

But the data itself is pretty clear. This is a problem we have to acknowledge it exists on both sides. The sooner we take responsibility for all our rhetoric -- and there is leftwing rhetoric that I think is very dangerous and contributes to the anti-ICE sentiment. But this is not one side only.

PHILLIP: Let me just play what Bill Clinton said about this this week. He had a very alarmed tone, frankly, about where this is all headed. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BILL CLINTON, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: Once you start dehumanizing people, once we take three-dimensional people and turn them into two dimensional cartoons, it's hard to come back from that. It's easy to tear somebody down, and it's hard to go build them back up. And it's bad for all of us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: That is obviously at the heart of this, I think, on all sides of the debate, which is why I think it is not helpful to suggest that that kind of dehumanization is only a one-sided thing. It's endemic in our politics right now. And acknowledging that it is the first step, that everybody has to be a part of that if it's going to work at all.

JENNINGS: Guys, we're dealing with breaking news every day on this, whether it's an ICE facility or whether it's Charlie or whether it's what -- we are in the middle of an issue here where people on the left have decided that speech and debate and elections, that's too slow for me. And they've been radicalized somehow. They're writing messages on bullets. The messages echo exactly what they're being programmed with from the politicians on the other side.

GRIFFIN: I really don't think that's fair.

JENNINGS: They're writing it on the bullets.

GRIFFIN: Those lawmakers and their dog were shot dead, Democratic lawmakers.

JENNINGS: And you know what happened?

GRIFFIN: That's a bigger problem. JENNINGS: And after that happened, the United States House convened

and unanimously passed a resolution condemning it. And when it happened to Charlie, we had over 100 plus Democrats voted no.

GRIFFIN: I know. And I thought it was disgraceful, more than show up to the memorial --

BABA: Listen, listen, I just think --

PHILLIP: You did not even acknowledge that the president didn't even acknowledge that that incident happened. He didn't call the governor. He didn't call the families. He didn't put out a statement to --

GRIFFIN: And by the way --

PHILLIP: Like, literally nothing. I do think there's a huge there's a gulf between how Trump responds to these moments and what is required of the president in these moments, both when it comes to Charlie Kirk's assassination and those Minnesota lawmakers. Again, the responsibility of the president, right, Charlie Kirk was assassinated, and he goes to the memorial, after Charlie Kirk's wife reaches out to the country and says, here's how I think as a Christian, that we should approach this. And then the president says, I hate my enemies and I don't want anything good to happen to them.

Again, what is the role of the president? What is the responsibility in leadership to this nation? I don't even want to go into the fact that he says he's a Christian, but he is also the president. He's a political leader. He's supposed to be a moral leader. What is he doing?

JENNINGS: Well, I think he's exhibiting a range of emotions that a lot of conservatives are feeling. Since Charlie died, I have felt sad, depressed, angry, resolved, you name it. And I've also been inspired by what Erika Kirk had to say. We have been on a roller coaster of emotions when this happened. And I think the president has been too, because they were close friends.

But to say that he has responsibilities. OK, I'll grant it. But if you want to talk about people cooling down the rhetoric, there is no evidence whatsoever that the Democrats want to cool anything off since Charlie. They don't vote that way. They don't talk that way. We have people tweeting out here. Were going to throw the CEO, we're going to deport the CEO of Sinclair. We're going to put Elon Musk in prison.

GRIFFIN: Scott, it's just, it's honestly, it is so disingenuous. I have received threats from the right and from the left. The president of the United States would do well to echo Erika Kirk, who showed a message of grace and of unity in a moment that called for it. You know that. Like, you know that. Young people are watching. His generation has never seen normal politics. It matters.

PHILLIP: Unfortunately, we do have to leave it there.

Coming up next, Bruce Springsteen has a warning for the Democratic Party that their glory days might well be over if they don't act fast. What The Boss says needs to happen next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:34:13]

PHILLIP: One of America's most famous rock stars says that there aren't many liberals right now who are born to run. Bruce Springsteen says the Democrats are losing against Donald Trump. Quote, "We're desperately in need of an effective alternative party, or for the Democratic Party to find someone who can speak to the majority of the nation."

And on the president, Springsteen says, "He's the living personification of what the 25th Amendment and impeachment were for. And that, "If Congress had any guts, he'd be consigned to the trash heap of history."

So don't get it twisted. Springsteen is not like a Trump fan now, but, I mean, he is making a point in that Democrats don't know how to communicate with the majority right now, and they have to fix that.

BABA: Yes. I mean, I think, you know, you'll find wide agreement among a lot of people that the Democratic Party leadership right now is not being as effective as they otherwise could.

[10:35:04]

And one of my main criticisms with them is that the truth doesn't have to be poll tested, right? If you believe something, say it with the chest, get out there, and people will resonate with it, right? And I think that communication style needs to be moderated. I think the simplicity of how they go about talking about their issues needs to be moderated. And then also the way they push back against what we're seeing currently needs to be adjusted.

And I think we're seeing that. I see Gavin Newsom is doing some of this, but obviously some of the, you know, rhetoric from some people may not be to what the majority of Americans think we need. But at the same time, I think the policies, especially affordability and going against this corruption we're seeing is pretty clear cut for most people.

GRIFFIN: I mean, I think the Democrats have basically squandered a year of Trump in office with a lot of hashtags and predictable kind of clapbacks. I think if the election were held today, despite everything we've said at this table and the many criticisms I have of Donald Trump, he would win again and might even win by a bigger margin.

You have to have something you are for, not just what you're against. And I think we had Kamala Harris on "The View" this week, and she basically said, there's a lot of superstars but not a clear leader. I'm paraphrasing her. You kind of need someone. You need somebody who is going to guide the ship and say, this is the message, this is the blueprint. This is what we're for. Get back the working class vote that they lost. And that's just not happening. Like you can hashtag where are the Epstein files all you want, it's not getting you new voters.

PHILLIP: Adam, I want to play what Bill Maher said about this in the same genre and get your take on the other side.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BILL MAHER, COMEDIAN: The Democrats definitely need an outsider. To me, the Democratic Party is a ghost brand. And if you could have somebody take it over who is not sentimental about that company and, you know, relaunch it, rebrand it. But it would have to be somebody who is unapologetic about calling them out. People have lost faith in the Democratic Party for very good reasons. And you know, you're the only one I hear who, like, doesn't look like he cares what the other Democrats will say.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: He compared them to Abercrombie & Fitch, a ghost brand. What do you think?

MOCKLER: I think that, I mean, he's right that we need more unapologetic Democrats. But it's more than that. The Democratic brand is two things right now. It's a lot of things, but it's both risk averse and it's very, very finger waggy. So all of our politicians are incredibly risk averse. So they're not out there taking risks or trying to do new things. I mean, they're playing it very, very safe. Even as much as I love Kamala Harris, and I thought she did well on her campaign, she was very risk averse during all of that.

But on the other side of that, while they're being risk averse, they're also just like purity testing everybody and finger wagging them. I mean, I'm a young dude. I like a little bit of like edge in my politicians. I think most young dudes like an edgy politician, not somebody who is out there being, you know, super scripted and tested and everything. So all this comes together to create an environment where, like, I had a young friend the other day who is pretty liberal say that the Democratic Party feels, quote-unquote, suffocating at times. And I think that's a good way to put it.

PHILLIP: It's that and academic, a lot of times. The simplicity is missing in the message.

JENNINGS: What Bill was describing is about what happened to Republicans after 2012. You know, they lost to Obama. Everyone was disappointed. They had gone through a number of years of going with insider or establishment politicians. And they turned to an outsider who wasn't sentimental about the brand, who didn't mind to call out the people in the party for which he was running for the nomination. And he kind of took it over from the outside. That's exactly what Maher was describing. And I think the demoralization of the Democratic Party must feel similar to what Republicans were feeling after 2012.

PHILLIP: Coming up next, President Trump's airing of the grievances on the world stage is getting a very different reaction in the U.S. and abroad. We'll compare and contrast next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:43:31]

PHILLIP: An escalator hasn't received this much attention since the one Donald Trump rode down a few decades ago -- a decade ago. The president going scorched earth on the earth this week at the U.N., including a malfunction that he calls sabotage. Trump went off on migration, wars, and the United Nations itself, using many of the campaign and administration lines that we have been hearing for quite a long time.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, (R) U.S. PRESIDENT: The teleprompter is not working. Whoever is operating this teleprompter is in big trouble.

All I got from the United Nations was an escalator that, on the way up, stopped right in the middle.

What is the purpose of the United Nations that's not even coming close to living up to that potential?

Climate change, it's the greatest con job ever perpetrated on the world.

I'm really good at this stuff. Your countries are going to hell.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: In the aftermath, it's interesting to see the comparisons of how the world is covering Trump versus what's happening here at home. For example, "The Mirror" in Britain calls him deranged. "The Guardian" says "It's clear the world can no longer look to the U.S. for strong leadership." "The Morning Star" quoted the London mayor's reaction, "Racist, sexist, xenophobic." And "The New York Times" framed it as if Trump -- about Trump and his different tones.

I think the United States, we, you know, he's our president in this country, so I think that there's definitely a different reaction.

[10:45:00]

But the world is shocked, especially after that United Nations speech. I mean, many people were very shocked by what he did that day.

GRIFFIN: Listen, I'm no fan of the U.N., and I'm generally for roasting it, but not necessarily his finest speech he's ever given.

But I'll say this. There's sort of this belief that America is seen as weak on the world stage because Donald Trump is unpredictable and often kind of mired by controversy. The reality is this. I would look to his reception that he received in the U.K., where the British royal family rolled out the red carpet literally and figuratively for him. There is -- our allies realize we may be unpredictable. We may not show up to our obligations the way we did. They may not trust how invested we are in NATO. But they realize they have to work with Donald Trump.

And so I'm torn in that I see that as a sign that there is this this recognition that they have to deal with this American president as he is. I don't think it's a good thing that we're unpredictable. But I do think the world is realizing they have to work with Donald Trump.

MOCKLER: Yes. I mean, I think it's absolutely absurd that Trump seems to have just this week realized that Russia is the bad guy throughout the United Nations thing. Like, he tweeted out randomly this long post about Vladimir Putin actually not being in a good position, how it's been three years. They were supposed to end this in two days.

So I think that it's embarrassing when the president of the United States goes out there and is talking to our allies, saying that their countries are, quote, "going to hell." He seems to be having elementary level realizations about who is the good guy and who is the bad guy in foreign conflicts. It's incredibly embarrassing, and it's not a good look for our country.

BABA: Yes, I mean, I think what we're seeing, I mean, I wonder how much of that speech was off the cuff because he was pissed at the escalator, and he went in and was like, I'm just going to ratchet it up a couple notches.

But honestly, I think the world where you say that they feel like they have to work with him, I think it is really demeaning, self-demeaning to the U.S., frankly, that now we have this personalized foreign policy where they feel like they have to flatter him and placate his fragile ego to get anything from him. They know it's a part of their -- they know it's literally a part of their strategy now. You have to you have to roll out the carpet for him. You have to placate his ego. You have to be extra nice to Donald, or else he might wake up tomorrow and say, I'm going to tariff a few hundred percent because I'm pissed off. Or like with India with Modi, he just erodes the entire relationship over, what, the Nobel Peace Prize disagreement. Like, we don't even know where the source of that one is.

So I really think the way he's eroded our foreign policy to just be a situation in which it's just placate Donald's ego, I think it's not, it's not --

PHILLIP: I think it didn't help that the escalator thing happened. I mean, he was really about it, it seemed. And the teleprompter, even though that was controlled by --

JENNINGS: I mean, honestly, if that really was an act of internal sabotage.

MOCKLER: That's ridiculous. Ridiculous. Eternal victims.

PHILLIP: Here's what the spokesperson for the secretary general said. "A subsequent investigation, including a readout of the machine's central processing unit, indicated that the escalator had stopped after a built-in safety mechanism on the comb steps was triggered at the top of the escalator." Nobody was at the top of the escalator but Donald Trump's team. So I think it's -- JENNINGS: I don't know.

GRIFFIN: I've attended the U.N. General Assembly many times. It's such a chaotic environment because you have so many heads of state, over 190 countries represented, all with their own security details. And it's the one place no one is treated as more important than the other. Like, this stuff happens. It was hilarious. I got to say, the top of it, the teleprompter part, no notes. I would get a shirt that says that.

JENNINGS: Where is the line in what the president said about these countries? They are being overrun by mass migration. Their energy policies are ridiculous. They are, on the one hand, bemoaning the war in Europe and still buying energy from Russia. Maybe they needed a wake-up call.

MOCKLER: Thats not what Trump said, though.

JENNINGS: He's giving them a wake-up call. They have been totally -- they have completely allowed themselves to be overrun. He correctly called it out. The mass migration crisis in this world is the biggest geopolitical issue we face. He's dealing with it here. They refused to deal with it there.

PHILLIP: OK, well, that's a whole other debate for another time. We'll take it up another day.

Next, the panel's unpopular opinions, what they are not afraid to say out loud.

But first, a quick programing note for you. This Sunday, Omar Jimenez goes inside the Trump administration's fight with Harvard University and meets with some students and faculty who are paying the price for it all. "The Whole Story with Anderson Cooper" airs Sunday at 10:00 p.m. right here on CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:53:59]

PHILLIP: We're back, and it's time for your unpopular opinions. You each have 30 seconds to tell us yours. Scott, you're up.

JENNINGS: You guys are looking at this Comey thing all wrong. Hillary Clinton supporters should be happy with Donald Trump over this. He is finally punishing the destructor of her 2016 campaign. Jim Comey stepped in in October of 2016 and put the final kibosh on her presidential ambitions. And I hear all these people whining today, and I just think you're looking at this all wrong. The punisher of your tormentor is here. Embrace it.

BABA: Yes, mine is on the most important story of the week, OK? The Rapture. The TikTokers that were preparing for the Rapture, they need to be hired by FEMA, OK? Sure, they got the timing wrong slightly, but the preparation and the detail orientation was fantastic. They were talking about where to position your arms when you're being raptured. They were saying, don't look down as you're flying through the air. Really pointed suggestions that we need in FEMA so that that could be directed. And then you unleash this swarm of influencers.

[10:55:01]

GRIFFIN: My unpopular take, which my husband thought was very unpopular, is streamers should release more shows one episode per week rather than a full series at once. I last weekend was feeling under the weather, and I binged an excellent show, "Black Rabbit," on Netflix with Jason Bateman, but I watched it in 48 hours. I don't remember a thing. I'm not invested in it.

We have so few collective things we celebrate. We need those "Game of Thrones" moments where every Sunday we're all glued to our TVs enjoying something collectively. So slow it down. You'll probably get higher viewership over time, too.

PHILLIP: Bring back truly episodic television.

GRIFFIN: Yes.

PHILLIP: Go ahead.

MOCKLER: You know, my side is going to eat me alive for this, but I do think Donald Trump is right. Diet Coke is the best drink on the planet. Like I can't get enough of it. You can't even overdose on that thing. I need to chill out on it.

JENNINGS: That's not an unpopular opinion. That's a popular opinion.

GRIFFIN: If you said Diet Pepsi, I feel like that's highly unpopular.

PHILLIP: All right, everybody, thank you so much, and thanks for watching "TABLE FOR FIVE". You can catch me every weeknight at 10:00 eastern time with our Newsnight Roundtable, and anytime on your favorite social media, X, Instagram, and TikTok.

In the meantime, CNN's coverage continues right now.

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