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The Situation Room
George Zimmerman Trial Continues; Unrest in Egypt
Aired July 05, 2013 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Happening now: gripping testimony, as Trayvon Martin's mother and George Zimmerman's mother take the stand, both saying they heard their own son screaming in the 911 tape.
Also, an embarrassing backtrack by the State Department, now admitting Secretary of State John Kerry was on his yacht during Egypt's coup.
Plus, a CNN exclusive, 20 kinds of explosives, each capable of bringing down a plane. We're going to go inside the TSA's bomb training class.
We want to welcome our viewers here in the United States and around the world. Wolf Blitzer is off today. I'm John Berman. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
One of the most anticipated days of the George Zimmerman trial and a series of blockbuster witnesses, including Trayvon Martin's mother and George Zimmerman's mother, both women listening to the 911 tape of the fatal confrontation and both women testifying that it was their own son's anger screams that can be heard on the tape.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
911 OPERATOR: 911, do you need police, fire or medical?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Maybe both, I'm not sure. There's just someone screaming outside.
911 OPERATOR: OK, what's the address that they're near?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: 1211 Twin Trees Lane.
911 OPERATOR: Twin trees lane? Is it (INAUDIBLE) in Sanford?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
911 OPERATOR: OK. And is it a male or female?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It sounds like a male.
911 OPERATOR: And you don't know why?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't know why. I think they're yelling help, but I don't know. Send someone fast.
911 OPERATOR: Does he look hurt, do you know?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I can't see him. I don't want to go out there. I don't know what's going on.
911 OPERATOR: So you think he's yelling help?
MARK O'MARA, ATTORNEY FOR GEORGE ZIMMERMAN: Were you able to hear that voice in the background?
GLADYS ZIMMERMAN, GEORGE ZIMMERMAN'S MOTHER: Yes.
O'MARA: You heard, of course, a woman's voice in the foreground, correct?
ZIMMERMAN: Yes, sir.
O'MARA: Do you know whose voice that was screaming in the background?
ZIMMERMAN: Yes, sir.
O'MARA: And whose voice was that?
ZIMMERMAN: My son, George.
O'MARA: And are you certain of that?
ZIMMERMAN: Because he's my son.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERMAN: Now, gripping testimony, but just hours earlier, Trayvon Martin's mother said the same thing.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
911 OPERATOR: 911, do you need police, fire or medical?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Maybe both, I'm not sure. There's just someone screaming outside.
911 OPERATOR: OK, what's the address that they're near?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: 1211 Twin Trees Lane.
911 OPERATOR: Twin trees lane? Is it (INAUDIBLE) in Sanford?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
911 OPERATOR: OK. And is it a male or female?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It sounds like a male.
911 OPERATOR: And you don't know why?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't know why. I think they're yelling help, but I don't know. Send someone fast.
911 OPERATOR: Does he look hurt, do you know?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I can't see him. I don't want to go out there. I don't know what's going on.
911 OPERATOR: So you think he's yelling help?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
Were you able to hear that voice in the background?
GLADYS ZIMMERMAN, GEORGE ZIMMERMAN'S MOTHER: Yes.
O'MARA: You heard, of course, a woman's voice in the foreground, correct?
ZIMMERMAN: Yes, sir.
O'MARA: Do you know whose voice that was screaming in the background?
ZIMMERMAN: Yes, sir.
O'MARA: And whose voice was that?
ZIMMERMAN: My son, George.
O'MARA: And are you certain of that?
ZIMMERMAN: Because he's my son.
BERNIE DE LA RIONDA, ASSISTANT STATE ATTORNEY: I want to play a recording for you, ma'am.
911 OPERATOR: 911, do you need police, fire or medical?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Maybe both, I'm not sure. There's just someone screaming outside.
911 OPERATOR: OK, what's the address that they're near?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: 1211 Twin Trees Lane.
911 OPERATOR: Twin trees lane? Is it (INAUDIBLE) in Sanford?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
911 OPERATOR: OK. And is it a male or female?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It sounds like a male.
911 OPERATOR: And you don't know why?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't know why. I think they're yelling help, but I don't know. Send someone fast. 911 OPERATOR: Does he look hurt, do you know?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I can't see him. I don't want to go out there. I don't know what's going on.
911 OPERATOR: So you think he's yelling help?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
911 OPERATOR: All right, what is (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Just, there's gunshots.
911 OPERATOR: You just heard gunshots?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ma'am, that screaming or yelling, do you recognize that?
SYBRINA FULTON, MOTHER OF TRAYVON MARTIN: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And who do you recognize that to be, ma'am?
FULTON: Trayvon Benjamin Martin.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERMAN: So, let's bring on our legal experts here. Obviously, some very dramatic testimony.
CNN legal analyst Sunny Hostin here, also Mark NeJame, a defense attorney, tried a lot of cases in the state of Florida. We heard from Trayvon Martin's mother this morning. We heard from George Zimmerman's mother the last hour. We also heard from Trayvon Martin's brother and George Zimmerman's uncle, a lot of family members all testifying it was either one voice or the other.
Sunny, let me ask you. You were in that courtroom. What do you think the jury takes from this at the end of the day as they head into a weekend?
SUNNY HOSTIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Listen, I think that jurors don't look at these cases in pieces.
I think at the end of the day, when they get charged by the judge to not lose their common sense when they go into the courtroom, they look at the case all together in one piece. And while some may think, OK, well, this is a wash, you have got two family members vs. two family members, when you look at the context of the statements, I think that the state kind of wins in that debate, primarily because you have a mother and a brother and a mother and an uncle.
I think a brother's testimony might hold more weight with the jury. And also, if you look at just the circumstance, you know, the uncle I think was a bit incredible when he said out of nowhere he heard his nephew's voice on television as he was typing on the computer. I think that's a bit incredible.
And I also think that if you look at the context of this incident, the 911 -- on the 911 call, John, the screams are silenced right after the shot. I think that would imply to the everyday person that the person that was screaming for help is the person that was shot. And so, again, you look at it in context, I think the state would likely win that debate.
BERMAN: Mark, let me ask you a slightly different version of that question.
HOSTIN: I'm sure he disagrees.
(CROSSTALK)
MARK NEJAME, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, you know, sunny says they kind of win. Well, this is not a civil case where the standard is a preponderance of the evidence. This is a criminal case, which is beyond a reasonable doubt.
And one has to ask then, did the state present such overwhelming evidence that beyond a reasonable doubt their side was more believable than the defense side? And kind of winning and maybe they got it or, you know, that doesn't do it in a criminal case. Any criminal case, the state has to prove the case beyond a reasonable doubt.
And so, we are not even dealing with a preponderance of the evidence and I'm not even they met the standard of preponderance of the evidence, but even if they did, they have got to go beyond that for a criminal case. And I think you had credible witnesses on both sides. I think both of them are impeachable because they have a vested interest in this, they have a bias. They love their respective person.
You know, of course, Trayvon's family loves him and wished that he was back with them. And of course, George Zimmerman's family believes that he's innocent and he didn't do this. So, there's a bias automatically attached to their perception. It's a human characteristic, a human flaw or a human positive, we don't know, but they are human and that's going to impact and affect their testimony.
So, with all that, I don't think that any of that is going to push the jury one way or another. I think other aspects of the case taken as a whole is -- are what's going to have to be looked at in order to, you know, really get an evaluation of what this jury's going to do.
BERMAN: Sunny, let me ask you a different version of that. Who needed this more today, the prosecution or the defense?
HOSTIN: Oh, I think the prosecution certainly needed it, and I think they got it.
I will tell you that I thought that the medical examiner's testimony wasn't as helpful as they wanted it to be. I think he was a bit of a loose cannon. That happens sometimes. When you're a prosecutor, you don't get to pick the medical examiner that's conducting the autopsy in your case. You get what you get. And so, I think that that was a problem, may have been a problem, because he couldn't be controlled, although he maintained his disposition throughout, he spoke with conviction.
And I was in the courtroom for his testimony, and he did appear quirky and charming, and the jury laughed along with him. But in my view, I have just never seen a medical examiner be such a loose cannon in a courtroom. I don't know how that's going to play out.
(CROSSTALK)
BERMAN: We're going to come back to the medical examiner in a little bit. I want to focus for a little bit more on the family here.
And, Mark, as a defense attorney, one interesting question here. Given that the defense knew they were going to call George Zimmerman's mother and George Zimmerman's uncle to kind of balance out the testimony from Trayvon Martin's mother, did the defense need to go so hard after Trayvon Martin's mother in the cross-examination? It makes it even more odd to me that Mark O'Mara was quite as tough as he was.
NEJAME: Yes, I agree.
I think that he went farther than he needed to. I think it was a risky defensive move for the defense and I don't think it turned out good for them. I think that you don't do that. And if you're going to do it, you really need -- it's almost a Hail Mary pass because the case is not going your way, and in this particular case, I think that the defense feels rather confident.
It's not the -- no matter what anybody thinks, those who are looking at this, we know it's not a great, it's not an overwhelming state case. So, there is no reason for the defense to go as far as they did. I think the biggest point they wanted to bring out, and I think it could have been brought out a lot cleaner and simpler and a lot shorter, was very simple.
They would have said, they wanted to prove that if Trayvon Martin was, in fact, on the bottom, then the whole thing might be turned around in a different way, because I believe they're confident they're going to be able to show it was George Zimmerman who was on the bottom.
And so they should have just left that. If they want to go anything more, that's all they should have kissed, that's all they should have touched, and that's even risky if they wanted to go to that little bit, but, yes, I think they went farther than they needed to.
BERMAN: Do you think the jury even remembers that from this morning as they head into this weekend?
NEJAME: I think that a lot of things pass. Remember the abysmal opening that many people thought occurred. Well, a lot of that is distant memory. I even said that Trayvon Martin's mother after the M.E. appeared, some of that almost became a distant memory, because you, know, you move on to the next one and then you look at it as a whole when you're deliberating.
So, I don't think they were particularly enamored with Mark O'Mara at that particular moment. I think that they -- particularly since five out of six women on the jury are mothers, that they didn't like that. We're speculating, but I believe that.
But with that said, I think he's come across as pretty likable, you know, that the jury's been -- he's been nice, he's been respectable. I think Don West has been the bad guy and I think that generally he's been the good guy and I don't think they will hold it against him for a conviction. I think that will be one element amongst many that they will look at when they go into deliberations.
BERMAN: All right, Mark NeJame and Sunny Hostin, hold on for one second. We're going to come back to you, because up next, bizarre testimony, really strange, from the medical examiner who conducted the final autopsy on Trayvon Martin's body.
Also, a lot of other news. Just weeks ago, they were meeting, John Kerry there with former Egyptian President Mohammed Morsy. Now we're learning that the secretary of state was on his yacht while the Egyptian President Morsy was being deposed.
Plus, all business eyes on a new jobs report, a big one, and what it says about the state of the U.S. economy. We will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BERMAN: So, the day's most bizarre and confrontational testimony in the George Zimmerman trial came from a medical examiner. Dr. Shiping Bao did the final autopsy on Trayvon Martin, but he testified he has no memory of it. And what he said next really did spark a courtroom controversy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. SHIPING BAO, ASSOCIATE MEDICAL EXAMINER: I do not remember anything, zero, anything on the day of autopsy. I depend on my notes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Show me what you're looking at.
BAO: Before this testimony, I told you, I spent hundreds, hundreds of hours. I took down potential answers to your potential question. These are my notes.
DON WEST, ATTORNEY FOR GEORGE ZIMMERMAN: May I see them, please?
BAO: I rather you do not see this, my notes. Nobody saw that before.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK.
(CROSSTALK) UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Dr. Bao, if you're going to be reading from your notes, both attorneys are entitled to see what you're reading from.
BAO: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So please allow him to do so. You may approach the witness.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERMAN: All right, let's bring back our experts here. CNN legal analyst Sunny Hostin and attorney Mark NeJame.
The question, Sunny, how damaging do you think that this medical examiner is, the fact that he could remember really anything he said from the autopsy, zero, he said?
HOSTIN: See, that didn't concern me as much as some other things, only because, I mean, if he's conducted, as he says, 3,000 autopsies, and you know, this happened months and months ago, he may not have any independent recollection of conducting the autopsy, and that happens oftentimes, and you hear experts get on the witness stand and say that very thing, John. They say, well, I have conducted 5,000 autopsies, and right after I conduct the autopsy, I write down my notes, I do my narrative and that's what I'm relying upon.
So, that didn't actually worry me as much. What worried me more was sort of his disposition on the witness stand. It started out that he was very much the scientist that you would expect from a medical examiner, and somewhere, somehow it went off the rails and he became this loose cannon. He became a caricature. And that's what concerns me.
(CROSSTALK)
BERMAN: It was wishy-washy is how I have heard it described. Go ahead, Mark.
NEJAME: Yes, and I was real -- I'm sorry -- I was concerned about the fact that, you know, the case has been going on of this magnitude for well over a year, and now three weeks ago, there's one case that comes in, which he didn't even perform the autopsy on, but he reads the report and he now uses that as his control to now go from one to three minutes that somebody can survive after taking a hit to the heart at the left ventricle to now one to 10 minutes, I mean, arguably, 10 times as much from the one minute and triple from the three minutes.
You know, some of these things just really challenged his credibility. And as we're looking at this, this is an expert. And now to take a single incident that happened in his office relative to all the studies, the medical school and, you know, all of the seminars that he would go to and everything else, he's got one simple case that he doesn't even know if it identifies exactly like this case. It was kind of maybe similar like it. And now he's using that as a standard. It just came across as less than professional and less than the state needed too, and I don't think they expected any of this. I think they expected a simple M.E. to take the stand, they would go ahead and deal with the typical things that go on and they were going to be getting their big finale here over the pictures of Trayvon after his mother and his brother's very moving testimony.
And it didn't turn out that way at all. This was disjointed, it was jumbled, it was mumbled, and it didn't just give them a nice, clean, strong close. It showed that they were really not as organized and not as efficient and not as clean as they need to make a case.
BERMAN: If Mark's right, Sunny, that it was not the grand finale that the prosecution was hoping for, why put him on, especially why put him on last?
HOSTIN: Yes, I mean, I will tell you, a lot of murder cases do end with the medical examiner. You try your case in a very linear way, a linear fashion.
So, it wasn't unusual for them to make that decision. Again, what was unusual was that this was a witness it was clear that you could not control. The judge could barely control this witness, and this is a judge who's pretty hard-core and has been able to maintain a certain decorum in the courtroom from day one, controlling these pretty larger-than-life attorneys.
So, I just think they got this medical examiner, luck of the draw, and he really kind of went off the rails. I want to disagree with Mark for a moment, though, because I think scientists, in my experience, are always learning from their cases. And so, the fact that he had this case three weeks ago that was very similar to the Trayvon Martin case, and he is learning from that I didn't think made him incredible.
Again, it wasn't so much what he was saying, it was the manner in which he was saying it.
(CROSSTALK)
BERMAN: Hang on one second, Mark.
NEJAME: Yes.
BERMAN: Hang on. Let's play one thing he did say. Let's talk a little bit about the science of this, what he was there to talk about. He talked about the moments after Trayvon Martin died. Let's listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DE LA RIONDA: Are you saying that his brain is still technically alive, in other words?
BAO: Yes.
DE LA RIONDA: OK. That's what you mean by still alive, in terms of conscious, his brain is still alive?
BAO: Yes.
DE LA RIONDA: OK. He can still feel pain, in other words.
BAO: Yes, I believe. It is my opinion that he was still alive, he was still in pain, he was still in suffering.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERMAN: So, Mark, I cut you off there. The scientist there talking about the idea of pain, why is that important?
NEJAME: Well, it shows I mean, one, from the prosecution point, you know, there's suffering going on, so that's obviously something that they want to bring out to the jurors.
But from the defense point, you know, a big issue in this case that is very good for the prosecution that the defense has to really address, and that is that George Zimmerman has come out with his various statements and said that he laid -- he was atop Trayvon Martin and then he laid him out after the shot was fired.
And then, when the first-responders showed up, Trayvon Martin's arms were underneath him. So, what the defense was trying to bring out during this was that, in fact, he was still alive for some period of time, capable of saying, you got me or you shot me or something along those lines, and that he might have had the capacity to move his arms back in, and hence, that would explain why the first-responders saw Trayvon Martin's arms tucked to his side or underneath him.
We don't know that, but that's where all this was going, because that is a discrepancy that's been unanswered.
BERMAN: Mark NeJame, Sunny Hostin, thank you so much. You have been working hard all day, all week. Enjoy your weekend, if you have one.
The jury is in recess for the weekend, but there is a lot to talk about. At the top of the hour, join Brooke Baldwin for a CNN special, "Self-Defense Or Murder?" Brooke will speak live with George Zimmerman's defense attorney, Mark O'Mara. That is tonight at 7:00 Eastern time.
Meanwhile, for us here, we will be back in a moment.
Gunshots, fire-bombs and tear gas, supporters of ousted Egyptian President Mohammed Morsy battle with opponents and security forces. We will take you live to the streets.
And next, Wall Street loves the latest jobs number, but there has to be a downside, right?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BERMAN: Some good news here. Stocks jumped sharply today. The Dow was up 147 points, as all three major indices rose about 1 percent. Wall Street cheered a solid jobs number, as hiring grew much more than expected last month, but -- and there is always a but -- there could be a bit of a cloud to go with that silver lining.
Here's CNN business correspondent Zain Asher.
ZAIN ASHER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, John. Let's get right to the numbers, 195,000 jobs added in June, a lot better than the 155,000 we had been expecting. The unemployment rate essentially unchanged at 7.6 percent.
I want to talk to you about where these jobs are coming from. Let's start with retail. This is an area that's been doing well month over month, up 37,000 in June. Obviously, earlier on this year, we saw these record highs in the stock market. We also saw home prices rise 12 percent compared to last year. That gives rise to what's known as the wealth effect.
So, people feel wealthier, and therefore, they go out and spend. That is certainly helping retail. Another area that's doing very well is health care, basically, baby boomers requiring more and more at- home health aides. By the way, one of the fastest growing jobs in America, but also one of the worst paid, which brings me to my next point, that a lot of the jobs we have gained during this recovery in areas like health care, retail, leisure and hospitality are low-wage jobs.
I want to talk to you about an area that hasn't been doing well at all, and that is government jobs. Because of the sequester, we are losing more and more government jobs, partly because of government workers who are retiring who are simply not being replaced. Lastly, want to talk to you about this, the underemployment rate, which includes people who are out of a job, but also people who are working part-time who would rather be working full-time. And, obviously, 14.3 percent, John, that is still too high John.
BERMAN: Indeed, too high. Our thanks to Zain Asher.
Coming up here next, so, the coup was just the beginning. We're going to go live to Cairo, where deadly violence has broken out.
And we're also going to go inside a TSA bomb training center. It is a CNN exclusive. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BERMAN: Happening now, deadly clashes in Egypt. Backers of ousted President Mohammed Morsy show their strength, battling rival crowds and security forces. We will go live to Cairo, where our own Ben Wedeman was caught up right in the middle of the violence.
Also, Secretary of State John Kerry spent time on his yacht while the Egyptian president was being ousted. The State Department first said he didn't. Now it says he did.
And just eight years after his death, the Vatican says Pope John Paul II will be made a saint.
Wolf Blitzer off today. I am John Berman, and you are in THE SITUATION ROOM.
It is midnight in Cairo now. Supporters of ousted President Mohamed Morsy have been battling with opponents. Both sides hurling firebombs.
Morsy loyalists took to the streets today all across Egypt, calling for his return to office, and the protests, they have turned deadly. In Cairo, a massive crowd marched on the Republican Guard headquarters where Morsy is said to be held right now. Five people were reportedly shot and killed there. Seventeen fatalities are reported across Egypt.
CNN's senior international correspondent, Ben Wedeman, was caught up in the middle of it all today. Let me first show you what happened.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Come to an end, and I'm told -- we're told...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)
WEDEMAN: I think we're having some problems here. They're trying to take away our camera.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE) Stop it. SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERMAN: All right, I have Ben on the phone from Cairo right now. You can see, his camera was temporarily shut down there. Ben, let me just ask you, what happened there? Are you doing OK?
WEDEMAN (via phone): Yes, we're fine. What happened was they clearly didn't want us to be taking any pictures, certainly not any live pictures from very close to four armored personnel carriers that had been brought into on the edge of a bridge leading into the square, where they've broken up these clashes between supporters and opponents of the Muslim Brotherhood.
The officer took away the camera. We had a heated conversation with the Egypt (UNINTELLIGIBLE). And we soon became friends. We stepped away for a cup of tea, and just a few minutes later, the officer returned the camera, and everyone was fine and we're now good friends.
And it was just one of those incidents that one has on days like this. We've had many others. You just didn't see them live. But it seems that at least the area around Tahrir is much, much calmer now. There are no clashes going on. The bridges that were blocked by burning cars have now been cleared, and it's calmer at midnight than it was at midday here in Cairo.
BERMAN: You say it's quieter now after midnight, as you point out, but it was quite violent earlier, with forces from both sides bumping heads; and worse, there were deaths there. Any sense that when the sun rises tomorrow, it will start all over again?
WEDEMAN: Well, there's no ruling that out. There still are, my colleague Reza at the Republican Guard headquarters is reporting there's still a large crowd still outside of Republican Guard headquarters, people demanding the release of Mohamed Morsy, the defunct president. Tensions are running very high at the moment.
The fact that the army has intervened in some areas right across the city seems to have succeeded in at least keeping the two sides apart. Tomorrow, however, we could be in it (UNINTELLIGIBLE) all over again. There's no sign that either side has decided to sit down and speak to one another at the moment with dialogue. It's rocks and Molotov cocktails.
BERMAN: Rocks and Molotov cocktails for now, after midnight in Cairo. Ben Wedeman, thank you very much for that report. We'll check back in with you a little bit later. Appreciate it.
Thirty-three minutes after the hour.
After a two-week trip focused mainly on Middle East peace efforts, Secretary of State John Kerry returned home this week, and then as some lucky and, let's say, comfortable people do, he went to spend some time on his yacht. But that happened to be the same day that Egypt's president was ousted in the coup.
The State Department, of course, muddied the waters by first saying Kerry was not on his yacht and then saying that he was on his yacht. So, what does this all mean?
Let's turn to CNN foreign affairs correspondent, Jill Dougherty. Jill, help us sort this out a little bit.
JILL DOUGHERTY, CNN FOREIGN AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: OK, John. First, why is this controversial? Well, you know, the role of the secretary of state during something like this, you know, street demonstrations, overthrowing the president of Egypt, it's a big deal, and his role is crucial. And then also, changing a story can undermine credibility.
So, this is how it happened. It started about 4 a.m. on Wednesday. That is the day of the overthrow of the government in Egypt. Secretary Kerry came back from a trip. As you mentioned, 12 days, big, long, international trip. He heads for Washington. And then as soon as he lands, or very quickly after that, he heads for Nantucket.
Now, in Nantucket, on Nantucket, he has a boat, a very nice one, and you can see it in this CBS picture. CBS producer was on the spot. They noticed, that producer noticed Secretary Kerry, yelled out something about Morsy. There was no reply. But then that producer began tweeting about it.
Now, that day, Secretary Kerry did make a lot of phone calls, and there was an important one, a conference, a meeting at the White House at THE SITUATION ROOM with President Obama and other senior officials. And so, the implication was that he was basically phoning it in from his boat.
Thursday, Jen Psaki, who's the spokesperson for the State Department, denied that he was on any boat. She said, quote, "Any report or tweet that he was on a boat is completely inaccurate."
And then today, Friday, there was basically an "oops" from Jen Psaki, and she said, "While he was briefly on his boat on Wednesday, Secretary Kerry worked around the clock all day." Psaki says that the secretary did make a series, a lot of phone calls concerning Egypt, and that he was on that call -- conference call, phoning into the White House to the situation room. But one official says none of those calls were from the boat.
So, the upshot of this basically is, State Department is saying he was fully engaged, but he was fully engaged from that beautiful vacation spot of Nantucket -- John.
BERMAN: Fully engaged on land and apparently on sea, as well. All right. Jill Dougherty, thank you for sorting out the facts of that for us right now.
We want to talk a little bit more about this. The issue here, of course, Kerry comes back, the secretary of state comes back from shuttle diplomacy, wants to relax on his boat for a while, ends up working anyway. Couldn't the spokeswoman have just put it that way to begin with?
Let's bring in our chief political correspondent, Candy Crowley, anchor of CNN's "STATE OF THE UNION." And Candy, what do you think this means for the secretary of state?
CANDY CROWLEY, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT/ANCHOR: Probably not much. You know, John, in this town, as well as I do, that things matter, little things that happen matter along the way if they build into the general impression people have about someone.
So, with John Kerry, we saw during his presidential campaign when he went wind surfing in Nantucket, he went skiing in Vail, et cetera, et cetera. He is a sportsman. He likes to challenge himself athletically. He does like to yacht. And it all fed into this kind of elitist feel.
Well, look, John Kerry isn't running for anything anymore. And the fact of the matter is that the president put a tweet out today with a picture, wished everybody a happy weekend, and it is a tweet of the president in a kayak. It says, "Have a great weekend."
So, I don't think that his boss, the one person that controls John Kerry's fate, actually cares where John Kerry phoned it in from, as long as he phoned it in. We all know they have phone lines. I think the problem may well be more about the State Department and how it operates.
BERMAN: You brought up the wind surfing from 2004. It really does seem that John Kerry has a problem with all nautical sports.
CROWLEY: Optics are not his thing. They just, you know, optics sort of go right over his head.
BERMAN: Let's talk about the State Department's spokeswoman, Jen Psaki. She's been a political spokeswoman for a while now, very effective in some cases. Do you think this caught her off guard a little bit when she was at the podium?
CROWLEY: Apparently. And I think this was in a series of -- I'm not sure this happened at the podium. I think it was in a series of reporters' messages to her. Like Jen, "Is he on his yacht? I mean, you know, Egypt's blowing up" and, you know, et cetera. And so, she was working, obviously, with information that was false. It happens.
And I think, as Jill said, enough of these and you begin to think one of two things. Either the spokesman's not telling you the truth on purpose, and I don't think that's the case here. I mean, obviously, we have no way of knowing, but just knowing Jen Psaki, I don't think she deliberately tried to mislead people that, you know, look, it's the age of Twitter. Let's face it, there are already pictures out there of John Kerry doing various things up in Nantucket. So, first of all, it's just not smart. Second of all, I don't think in Jen's ways.
But bad information is just as bad as, you know, deliberately misleading. You've got to get your facts right first and you can't just be so categorical. Absolutely didn't happen, totally didn't happen, and then have to come back and say, "Oh, yes, he was kind of there," because you know what? It makes a story that happened on Wednesday come all the way to Friday.
BERMAN: Facts do matter. All right. Candy Crowley, thank you so much.
Do not forget to join Candy this Sunday at a "STATE OF THE UNION." She's going to speaking a lot more than -- about more than just boating. She's going to be speaking with Joint Chiefs Chairman Martin Dempsey about the Egypt crisis. It's a fascinating interview. That is this Sunday at 9 a.m. Eastern only on CNN.
Next up here, it normally takes centuries -- really, centuries -- but just eight years after his death, the Vatican says Pope John Paul II will be made a saint. So, what put him on the fast track?
Also coming up, a $10,000 tip for a burger and fries? The amount was a little high, and it turns out, so was the man who left it.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BERMAN: So, the Vatican made it official today, Pope John Paul II is becoming St. John Paul less than a decade after his death. He will be canonized this year, along with a predecessor and reformer, Pope John XXIII.
CNN's Brian Todd has more on this. And Paul -- I mean, Brian, rather, it seems that John Paul II really was on the fast track to sainthood.
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right, John, the fastest track to sainthood in the modern age. One analyst says the Vatican wanted to capitalize on what he called that, quote, "John Paul magic," his huge popularity as pope, but his canonization is certainly not without controversy.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TODD (voice-over): At his funeral, thousands chanted "Santo Subito," "sainthood now," a tribute to John Paul II, maybe the most popular pope in the modern history of the Catholic Church. It's now eight years later, and the Vatican's just announced it will declare John Paul a saint.
JOHN ALLEN, CNN VATICAN ANALYST: For an institution that typically thinks in centuries, this is remarkably quick.
TODD: CNN Vatican analyst John Allen says, according to Vatican insiders, sainthood has been approved because a second miracle has been performed by John Paul posthumously.
ALLEN: In this case, the Vatican is saying that there is a report of a miraculous healing of a woman in Costa Rica.
TODD: Allen says, according to the report, the woman recovered from a severe brain injury. Church protocol says it takes two miracles performed after death to make someone a saint. John Paul's first miracle, an account that he cured a nun who reportedly had Parkinson's, led to his beatification, the final step before sainthood.
PATRICK KELLY, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, JOHN PAUL II SHRINE: And a team of doctors first examined the miracle, then secondly, the team of theologians look at the miracles, and then they discuss amongst themselves the legitimacy and all the facts surrounding the miracles.
TODD: Then, a body of cardinals has to approve sainthood. And finally, the pope signs off on it.
The previous record for the fastest canonization in modern times, Josemaria Escriva, founder of the conservative order of Opus Dei, made a saint 27 years after his death. John Paul's about to shatter that.
(on camera): But there are critics who say not so fast on canonization. They say, despite being so beloved, John Paul II didn't live up to expectations at a crucial moment in the church's history, a moment of shame that church leadership is still dealing with.
(voice-over) A crippling sex abuse scandal involving thousands of victims with several church leaders accused of cover-ups. ALLEN: The wrath against John Paul in terms of the sex abuse scandals is basically that this stuff metastasized during his papacy, and he didn't respond adequately to it.
TODD: I put that to the archbishop of Washington, Cardinal Donald Wuerl.
(on camera): What do you say to those critics?
CARDINAL DONALD WUERL, ARCHBISHOP OF WASHINGTON: His ministry was so clearly a ministry of concern for everyone. When you're presiding over a worldwide church with over a billion members, surely, there are going to be things that happen over which you don't have a lot of control or maybe no control.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TODD: Cardinal Wuerl and others say the measure of a saint is not a list of accomplishments or setbacks, but how holy the person was. The former ceremony for canonizing John Paul II could come as early as this December -- John.
BERMAN: All right, thanks so much, Brian.
There's some thought that the Vatican, in approving John Paul's sainthood is also making another move to appease those critics who mentioned the sex scandal abuse, right?
TODD: That's right, and because as the Vatican announces the canonization of John Paul II, it's also announcing that it is also making one of his predecessors, John XXIII, a saint, as well. That seemed by some analysts as a way of diluting the announcement of John Paul II's canonization and maybe appeasing those critics who are upset with him over the sex scandal and his response to it.
BERMAN: Sounds like some politics at work there also. All right, Brian Todd in Washington. Thank you so much. Great to see you. Have a great weekend.
TODD: You, too. Thanks.
BERMAN: Let's take a quick look now at the other top stories here in THE SITUATION ROOM.
The FBI today announced the arrest of a suspect in what it says was an extortion scheme targeting TV chef and restaurant owner Paula Deen. The suspect allegedly demanded $250,000 in exchange for not disclosing, quote, "damning statements" made by Deen. Deen has already lost many of her business sponsors after admitting she used a racial slur.
NSA leaker Edward Snowden has applied for asylum in six more countries, that word today from WikiLeaks on its Twitter account. But the group says it will not name the countries now, due to, quote, "attempted U.S. interference." Snowden previously sought asylum in 21 countries. Those shown in red on the map say they will not take him in. The countries in yellow are still said to be considering his request.
And up next here, just a small bit of explosives but enough to bring down an airliner. In a CNN exclusive, you will see just why airport security is so tight. That's coming up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BERMAN: All right. Just into THE SITUATION ROOM, you were looking at live pictures from Cairo in Egypt. This is a demonstration in support of the deposed Egyptian president, Mohamed Morsy.
Now, the U.S. State Department issuing a statement on the increasing violence in Egypt. The spokeswoman saying, quote, "We condemn the violence that has taken place today in Egypt. We call on all Egyptian leaders to condemn the use of force and prevent further violence among their supporters. As President Obama said, we expect the military to ensure that the rights of Egyptians, all Egyptians, are protected. The voices of all who are protesting peacefully must be heard, including those who welcomed the events of those earlier this week and those who supported President Morsy."
There have been several deaths in Cairo over the last several hours. We'll keep you updated on the situation there as it unfolds.
We're going to move on now to a CNN exclusive, a dramatic look at why airport security is so tight. You're about to see how even a tiny amount of explosives can bring down an entire airplane. Here's CNN's Emily Schmidt.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
EMILY SCHMIDT, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): If a professional training day can ever have an impact...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Fire in the hole! Fire in the hole!
SCHMIDT: ... this could be it. It's the TSA's explosives class for first responders, federal air marshals and TSA employees. CNN was given rare access to this training, off limits to the public.
These are controlled blasts that mimic bombs terrorists have tried to use, especially on airplanes.
JOHN DURKIN, FEDERAL AIR MARSHAL SERVICE: Twenty different types of explosives used in 20 different situations, concealed in 20 different ways.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Three, two, one.
SCHMIDT (on camera): That explosion happened when a chicken carcass that had been placed on the top of this pole was blown up. When it did, the debris flew in all directions, some of it landing 30 feet away. All of that damage, and it happened with an explosive the size of the tip of a ball point pen.
(voice-over): It's why the TSA uses things like body scanners, pat downs and liquid bans, solutions not always popular with travelers.
(on camera): Most people have to take their shoes off when they go through the airport. Is that reflected in one of those explosions?
TOM CONTE, TRANSPORTATION SECURITY SPECIALIST, EXPLOSIVES: Absolutely. One of our shots is a representation of the Richard Reid shoe bomb, and that shows you the destructive power that can be concealed in shoes.
SCHMIDT (voice-over): Tom Conte has led more than 8,400 people through the day-long class. This bomb is similar to the underwear bomb authorities say Umar Abdulmutallab tried to use to blow up a plane on Christmas Day of 2009.
CONTE: We mimic that shot to show the destructive power and what it could have done on that airplane that day.
SCHMIDT: Other blasts showed what happens when improvised explosive devices go off in a crowd.
MICHAEL WALSH, TRANSPORTATION SECURITY SPECIALIST, EXPLOSIVES: It literally spun the mannequin around and shredded its clothes. You can see the severe injuries that the mannequin suffered.
SCHMIDT: Some of the training information is so sensitive we couldn't see it, but authorities do want to show that what happens here impacts what happens here in airport security.
WALSH: There's a reason why that exists, and, you know, a lot of the reasons were shown out here on the range today.
SCHMIDT (on camera): The TSA says one of the big explosive concern that arises this time of year is people trying to bring fireworks onto the airplane. In fact, this picture shows fireworks gathered at some of the TSA checkpoints. From roman candles to sparklers, these are all banned.
And you take a look at the power of some of those explosions on the bomb range, it's easy to see why.
Emily Schmidt, CNN, Reagan National Airport.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BERMAN: And our thanks to Emily for that report.
Next here, a $10,000 tip for a burger and fries. Wait until you meet the guy who left it.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BERMAN: It was just lunch in a diner, but it was followed by a big tip. Really big. Here's CNN's Jeanne Moos.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEANNE MOOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): What kind of guy leaves a $10,000 tip on burgers and fries? One who's won $25 million playing the Canadian lottery.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yay!
MOOS: Clifford Luther owns the Old West Express in Saskatchewan.
CLIFFORD LUTHER, OWNER, OLD WEST EXPRESS: I have to pinch myself every often just to realize how generous he was.
MOOS: Lotto winner Bob Erb was on a road trip when he stopped at the diner to eat. The two men ended up chatting. Cliff spoke of his daughter, who had just been diagnosed of cancer. Bob said he lost his 26-year-old son a few years back. On his return trip, Bob stopped by the diner again for a bite.
BOB ERB, LOTTO-WINNING PHILANTHROPIST (via phone): And I said, "Hey, I didn't get a chance to stop at a bank machine. Can I write you a check?" I said, "For lunch."
"No, no," he says, "I'll buy you lunch."
And I said, "No, no, no." I said, "I'll leave you a check and a tip."
MOOS: A $10,000 one. Not quite as big as the check Bob got last year.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Here's your check for $25 million.
MOOS: Since then he figures he's given away $7 million, most of it to shelters and good causes in his hometown of Terrace, British Columbia.
(on camera): Giving away money isn't Bob Erb's only habit. He's been smoking pot for over 40 years.
ERB: I generally spoke 10 to 15 joints a day and seven days a week, 365 days a year.
MOOS: With his newfound riches, Bob Erb -- we swear, that's his real name, Erb -- has been funding the fight to legalize marijuana. Even on that exciting day when he was introduced as the Lotto winner.
ERB: Now I need to relax a little bit.
MOOS: Now maybe you think these lyrics explain the $10,000 tip.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (singing): Because I got high, because I got high because I got high.
MOOS: But a grateful, emotional dad knows better. LUTHER: He said, "Go and see your daughter. Make sure you get out there to see her." So, yes.
MOOS: A pot lover won the jackpot, and now he's spreading around his potluck.
Jeanne Moos, CNN...
LUTHER: I said, well, they're good burgers and fries, but they're not that good.
MOOS: ... New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BERMAN: And we will leave on a high note. That does it for us. I'm John Berman.
Brooke Baldwin is next with a CNN special on the Zimmerman trial. Stay with us.
