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THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Happening now, breaking news. Hail to the chief. Emotional tributes to President George H.W. Bush, whose casket is being flown back to Texas right now after a very moving state funeral in Washington. We're standing by for the arrival ceremony.
[17:00:18] Subdued and snubbed. The funeral brings an unusually restrained President Trump together for the first time with all of his living predecessors amid very awkward protocol. Did he snub Bill and Hillary Clinton?
Between the lines. Surprises and clues in the new court filing by Robert Mueller, now recommending no jail time for former national security adviser, Michael Flynn, in return for his extensive cooperation. What does the Mueller memo reveal about a mystery criminal investigation?
And missile expansion. CNN obtains exclusive new satellite images showing North Korea expanding one missile base and revealing a previously unknown site. Is Kim Jong-un playing President Trump with talk of denuclearization?
I'm Wolf Blitzer. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.
BLITZER: We're following breaking news. The casket of President George Herbert Walker Bush is being flown to Texas at this hour after a state funeral in the nation's capital that included a very emotional eulogy by his son, President George W. Bush. I'll talk about that and more with senator Jack Reed of the Armed Services and Intelligence Committees. And our correspondents, analysts and specialists are also standing by.
First, let's go to our senior White House correspondent, Jeff Zeleny. Jeff, this was the first time President Trump has been with all of his predecessors. Update us.
JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, good evening.
President Trump was taking a seat for the first time in the presidents' club, an awkward moment, considering all the bad blood with his living predecessors. But even as the Russia investigation still hangs over this White
House, and he's increasingly fuming about it, today he was silent, listening respectfully as the late President Bush was hailed as Americans' great last soldier, a 20th Century Founding Father.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ZELENY (voice-over): Washington paid tribute and bid farewell to George H.W. Bush, an American patriot whose presidency helped change the face of the world.
GEORGE W. BUSH, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: When the history books are written, they will say that George H.W. Bush was a great president of the United States.
ZELENY: After following in his father's footsteps, George W. Bush now stands as the family patriarch, praising the 41st president for peacefully leading the world through the Cold War era.
BUSH: A diplomat of unmatched skill. A commander-in-chief of formidable accomplishment. And a gentleman who executed the duties of his office with dignity and honor.
ZELENY: A living tableau of history, as leaders from around the world -- the prince of Wales, the king of Jordan, the chancellor of Germany -- joining nearly 3,000 others at the Washington National Cathedral.
BRIAN MULRONEY, FORMER CANADIAN PRIME MINISTER: When George Bush was president of the United States of America, every single head of government in the world knew that they were dealing with a gentleman.
ZELENY: President Trump coming face-to-face for the first time since his inauguration with his four living predecessors, his first official act as the newest member of the presidents' club.
The awkward protocol of the most exclusive group in the world on full display. Shaking hands with Barack Obama and Michelle, but not the Clintons. Bill Clinton glancing over, but neither he nor Trump extending a hand. Hillary Clinton staring straight ahead.
George W. Bush showing how to rise above it all, shaking hands with all first families, as Trump sat silently, listening to accolades for a different brand of politics in a kinder and gentler time.
JON MEACHAM, PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN AND AUTHOR: He was our shield in danger's hour.
ZELENY: After being excluded from Barbara Bush's funeral in April, George H.W. Bush, 41, wanted Trump to know that he, 45, would have a seat at his services. Not for a love of Trump, but for the love of office.
The elder Bush once called Trump an ass during a 2011 interview with the "New York Times'" Maureen Dowd. Trump had equally harsh words for most all members of the Bush dynasty, including Jeb Bush, who ran against him. But inside the soaring cathedral today, those feelings went unsaid as
Trump played a rare role, silent and respectful spectator, watching an emotional goodbye from one President Bush to another.
BUSH: And we're going to miss you. Your decency, sincerity and kind soul will stay with us forever. So through our tears, let us know the blessings of knowing and loving you, a great and noble man. The best father a son or daughter could have. And in our grief, I just smile knowing that Dad is hugging Robin and holding Mom's hand again.
ZELENY: Rare day of reprieve in Washington from the vitriol and division, as Trump lent the Bush family Air Force One to fly the late president home to Texas, as Trump returned to a White House still under a deepening cloud from the Russia investigation.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ZELENY: And that cloud does continue here at the White House. The cloud of uncertainty with the former -- the former national security adviser, Michael Flynn, of course, the subject of the special counsel's latest release, sitting down with him some 19 times and recommending that he does not get prison time.
Wolf, normally that might have elicited some type of reaction from President Trump. We certainly have seen him do that before with Michael Cohen and others. But today on that front, at least, silence from this White House, a respectful silence, as President George H.W. Bush continues on to Texas for his final funeral services -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Very historic and important day here in the nation's capital. Jeff Zeleny at the White House, thank you.
President Trump is facing increasing pressure, meanwhile, from Robert Mueller's latest court filing, which reveals previously unknown investigations by the special counsel, one of them a criminal probe.
Our justice correspondent, Jessica Schneider, is joining us with more on what the Mueller filing reveals.
Jessica, the special counsel's investigation is clearly not over.
JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Wolf, all signs, all redactions pointing that way. Most of this memo was blacked out, but the implications of Flynn's cooperation, they're very clear. He's provided 19 interviews' worth of information, and he's assisted in at least three active investigations. The Russia probe being just one of those, with two others that Mueller isn't revealing details about yet. All certain signs that Mueller's probe is still moving forward.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SCHNEIDER (voice-over): Tonight it's what is not spelled out in new filings released overnight by Special Counsel Robert Mueller that has the White House and Washington in a state of limbo over what Mueller knows about the Trump team's ties to Russia. In just six pages, many of which were partially or completely blacked
out for the public, Mueller laid out his reasoning to a federal judge for why former Trump national security adviser, Michael Flynn, who once suggested Hillary Clinton should go to jail --
MICHAEL FLYNN, FORMER U.S. NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISOR: Yes, that's right. Lock her up!
SCHNEIDER: -- should be allowed to avoid going there himself.
In a presentence memo, Mueller points to what he calls substantial assistance by Flynn over the course of 19 interviews, saying Flynn shared details from his time on the campaign and in the White House about alleged links and coordination between members of Trump's team and the Russian government.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you feel you betrayed your country?
SCHNEIDER: Prosecutors say after Flynn pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI about his contacts with former Russian ambassador Sergey Kislyak, he immediately started cooperating, giving investigators a road map for their Russia investigation.
Exactly how Flynn helped Mueller's Russia probe remains a mystery, because the specifics of just what he told prosecutors is redacted. Legal analysts tell CNN what is obvious by reading between the blacked-out lines is that the cooperation is significant.
For example, the documents show Flynn has provided information for multiple investigations, including two investigations Mueller isn't ready to reveal. At least one of those is criminal, though that is all that's known. Only the words "criminal investigation" are not redacted.
Prosecutors also suggest that Flynn may have been talking long before his guilty plea in December 2017, saying Flynn's "early cooperation was particularly valuable because he was one of the few people with long-term and first-hand insight regarding events and issues under investigation by the special counsel's office."
FLYNN: The next president of the United States.
SCHNEIDER: Flynn's early cooperation, prosecutors say, also led other key witnesses to do the same. Flynn, the court filing states, likely affected the decisions of related first-hand witnesses to be forthcoming with the special counsel's office and cooperate. But prosecutors don't name who else is cooperating.
Flynn, Mueller says, deserves credit for all of this in the form of no jail time. Experts say that could be a signal to others looking for a presidential pardon, suggesting that telling the truth to the special counsel can be just as beneficial.
NEAL KATYAL, FORMER ACTING SOLICITOR GENERAL: Mueller is saying, "Look, Mr. President, you want to play that game of zero prison time? I've got that card, too, and I've got it for people telling the truth to federal law enforcement."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCHNEIDER: Now, it's still unclear what exactly Flynn revealed to Mueller's team, but it is possible it could involve the president's son-in-law and adviser, Jared Kushner, since Kushner is the one who directed Flynn to contact the Russians during the transition about a key U.N. Security Council vote on Israeli settlements. That, of course, was when President Obama was still in office, right before President Trump's inauguration -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Jessica Schneider reporting for us. Jessica, thank you very, very much.
Let's bring in our senior justice correspondent, Evan Perez.
Evan, the filing yesterday made clear that Flynn was a big help to Mueller's Russia probe, but we didn't learn what exactly Flynn gave up. Update us.
[17:10:00] EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, one of the things that you can tell from the -- from the redactions in this -- in this document is the fact that there's ongoing investigations. There's investigations that may not be still in the hands of the special counsel's office. That Robert Mueller may well have handed off some of these matters to other offices.
We've seen him do that in the Michael Cohen case, for instance, which has been handled by the Southern District of New York, prosecutors in Manhattan. There is this investigation. We know that this began as an investigation, at least in part, with Michael Flynn's business in Turkey. We've never gotten a full answer, for instance, as to what that was about. So I suspect that there is more to that that may be hidden behind these redactions, Wolf.
BLITZER: Mueller says his team met with Flynn some 19 times. How significant is that?
PEREZ: Well, that's significant. If you think about Michael Cohen, who said he met seven times -- 70 hours during that time, if Michael Flynn -- sorry, Michael Flynn has been cooperating now for over a year, you know, you can probably add that up to dozens of hours, probably over 100 hours of time that he has spent with the special counsel, providing information and perhaps with other prosecutors who are handling these other investigations, Wolf.
BLITZER: Flynn is credited, as you know, in these documents for his early cooperation with Mueller and his team. What do you know about when he began talking?
PEREZ: Well, we now know that Michael Flynn, essentially, has ended up working longer for Robert Mueller than he ever did for Donald Trump.
Wolf, you know that, given the fact that, according to these -- these court documents, they say that he was an early cooperator, and we were -- long suspected he began cooperating with the special counsel perhaps a couple of months before he pleaded.
He pleaded guilty, by the way, just over a year ago. So think about that. He's been working for Robert Mueller and his -- and his team for over the past year, Wolf.
BLITZER: Evan Perez reporting for us. Evan, thank you very much.
Let's get some more on all of this. Joining us right now, Democratic Senator Jack Reed of Rhode Island. He has a seat on the Intelligence Committee, as well as being the ranking member of the Armed Services Committee.
Senator, thanks so much for coming in.
SEN. JACK REED (D), RHODE ISLAND: Thank you, Wolf.
BLITZER: So he worked longer, presumably, you just heard Evan say, for Robert Mueller than he actually worked for Donald Trump. How significant is that?
REED: I think it's very significant. Because one of the key elements in the presentation that Director Mueller made was Flynn has first- person knowledge of many activities. This is not hearsay. This is not "Someone told me." This is "I was there. I heard someone say this."
And I think also, which is critical, is the fact that other people having knowledge of Flynn's testimony have cooperated also. So he's been a very critical element in this investigation.
BLITZER: Were you surprised when you heard the details that were included in this document last night?
REED: Not completely surprised. He was really traveling with President Trump. And in the beginning, there were very few people, particularly foreign policy people, on the Trump staff in the presidential campaign. And so General Flynn, I think, was critically at very key moments.
BLITZER: But were you surprised at how deeply he was cooperating and for how long he was cooperating? Presumably a long time.
REED: I was not surprised. And one reason I wasn't surprised is that I think he recognized quite quickly that he had violated a -- not only the law, but a standard of conduct that he observed rigorously as a military officer, which is a truthfulness in all your dealings. And I think his recognition of that prompted him to make a decision, a personal choice, that he would be completely forthcoming and cooperative with Director Mueller.
BLITZER: Yes, people forget that he is a retired three-star general. He was head of the Defense Intelligence Agency.
REED: He was.
BLITZER: Had 30-plus years in the U.S. military. And so what you're suggesting -- and you're a West Point grad yourself -- is that military background convinced him: You better come clean?
REED: I don't know if it convinced, but it certainly put this decision in the context of a lifetime of very devoted and very distinguished service to the nation. And fundamentally based on truthful interaction between his subordinates, his superiors and everyone he came in contact with. And I think that might have helped him decide that he was going to break completely and be consistent and thorough and honest.
BLITZER: The special counsel says, you know what? He doesn't deserve jail time because of his substantial cooperation with the investigators. Nineteen meetings he had with the special counsel's team. How significant is that to you?
REED: I think it's very significant. Obviously, 19 meetings -- I don't think it would take 19 meetings to resolve the specific charges against General Flynn. So his cooperation went beyond that and probably led them to further individuals. He participated in those discussions if not directly, then if giving them information and insight.
BLITZER: In these documents that Mueller released last night, Governments Memorandum, in Aid of Sentencing, an Addendum to Government's Memorandum in Aid of Sentencing. They confirm that there are three ongoing investigations right now. Did you know about that?
[17:15:13] REED: I'm not privy to the -- all of the investigation. I think Special Prosecutor Mueller, Director Mueller, has conducted a very rigorous and professional investigation. He has kept very tight the information he has, the source he has, and the cases he's pursuing. And I think that's professionally very commendable.
BLITZER: On Monday, the president tweeted his praise for Roger Stone, long-time associate, confidante of the president, for not cooperating with Mueller. And as you know, yesterday Roger Stone pleaded the Fifth. He doesn't want to cooperate with the Senate Intelligence Committee, your committee, either. Do you view that as witness tampering? The Senate Judiciary Committee, I should say.
REED: You're getting into a very extensive area when you're encouraging people not to cooperate. Frankly, as a principle, it should be cooperation with legal authorities. We all have constitutional rights to not speak, to invoke the Fifth Amendment. But no one, I think, should actively be telling people not to cooperate with legitimate investigators.
BLITZER: Big picture. Where does Donald Trump fit into these investigations?
REED: That is very difficult to determine. Because the -- the investigations are going forward. There's been suggestions, again, with Comey, the director of the FBI, the president's request pointing to Director Comey that he not pursue General Flynn. Is that part of the investigation? It's difficult to determine exactly where the president is. BLITZER: Mueller says -- he says that senior -- in the memorandum, he
says "senior government leaders should be held to the highest standards." Is that a message, as some people are suggesting, directly to President Trump?
REED: I think it's a directly -- sent to all of our -- the senior level, including the president. But it's -- you know, anyone with authority -- it's true. Public office is a public trust.
BLITZER: You were at the funeral today at the National Cathedral --
REED: I was.
BLITZER: -- for President George H.W. Bush. How were you remember -- what did you think, first of all, and how were you remembering the 41st president?
REED: Well, it's a fitting tribute to a great patriarch. It was moving. The speakers were all both eloquent, sincere and conveyed deeply the decency and humanity of President Bush.
I think the most evocative moment was when President George W. Bush spoke about his father in terms that, to any human being, were unmistakable respect, admiration, profound love, on behalf of not only himself but his whole family. It was a deeply moving ceremony.
BLITZER: Is it going to have an impact here in Washington, this bipartisan affection that we all saw emerge over the past few days? Is it going to simply go away in a day or two?
REED: I hope it has a lasting impression. I remember what Senator Simpson said, that the highway of humility in Washington is a lonely road to travel. I hope there's a little more congestion on that road, frankly.
BLITZER: Let's see if it does.
REED: Thankfully.
BLITZER: Let's hope it does lead to some better cooperation. Senator Reed, thanks for coming in.
REED: Thanks.
BLITZER: Senator Jack Reed of Rhode Island.
Up next, he revealed new clues, but what key information is Robert Mueller still holding back in his Russia investigation?
Plus, what Michael Flynn may have told the Mueller team about President Trump's alleged ties to Russia.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[17:23:52] BLITZER: Looking at live pictures right now at the presidential aircraft carrying the Bush family and the casket of the former president, George H.W. Bush, as it flew over the Bush Presidential Library in Texas. That's in College Station, Texas, at Texas A&M University.
The plane will be landing in Houston fairly soon. The president's coffin will lie in repose later tonight. We'll have coverage of that arrival ceremony. Stand by for that.
Also, we're learning critical new information right now about Robert Mueller's Russia investigation. His sentencing memo in the case of the former national security adviser, Michael Flynn, is revealing key details, but also raising new questions about the special counsel's probe.
Let's dig deeper with our correspondents and our analysts. And Laura Coates, Michael Flynn's -- in this memorandum citing Michael Flynn's substantial assistance and early cooperation. The special counsel, Robert Mueller, says he's recommending no jail time at all from the -- for the national -- former national security adviser, even though he pleaded guilty to perjury.
LAURA COATES, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Imagine what information he's able to provide, over the course of a year. Remember, he pled guilty a year ago; had a series of 19 meetings to actually hold the attention span of special counsel; and had them delay his sentencing four separate times.
What he must have provided must have been -- although it's under the black ink, was substantial enough that they were able to rely on it, corroborate it, be able to believe it had credibility, and probably could not get someplace else.
One of the main reasons you have somebody be a cooperator or rely on the information is that this person is so uniquely positioned that I could not independently get the information and need you, for some reason, to make this sweet deal.
He's provided something very substantial. The word choice they've used indicates the judge. This is somebody we are asking for lenience for, for a reason.
BLITZER: Yes, because he's cooperating. A key line in the memorandum -- and all of us have now read it multiple times -- tried to read what was blacked out, too. Couldn't get through that part.
But a key line in the document, Jeffrey, says senior government leaders should be held to the highest standards. Should President Trump be concerned by that language?
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN CHIEF LEGAL ANALYST: Well, I think there's a lot to be concerned about with the -- for the president.
[17:25:03] What's unusual about this sentencing proceeding is that cooperators are almost always sentenced after the trial in which they testify. They -- this is something that prosecutors like to hold out over their cooperators so that they testify truthfully in the eyes -- in the eyes of the government. Here, Michael Flynn hasn't testified. One way of viewing what's going
on is that the person he can testify against is someone who can't be tried: the president.
So it's another reason to make the White House nervous, is that there's been no testimony from Michael Flynn, but there can be no trial of President Bush [SIC] -- sorry, thinking about President Bush today -- President Trump today, because he can't be tried under Justice Department policy.
BLITZER: You know, it's interesting, Rebecca, that he pleaded guilty almost a year ago, Michael Flynn. He's met 19 times since then with Mueller and his prosecutors, and they've pushed back Flynn's sentencing now four times, because he was cooperating, presumably providing important information.
What does that indicate about the extent, the quality of his cooperation?
REBECCA BERG, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, it means that this relationship, Wolf, was extremely fruitful. As Laura said, you don't grant an extension on sentencing, you don't grant such lenience in sentencing to a witness like Flynn if there isn't a good reason to do so, if he's not providing really valuable information to Mueller and his investigators.
And so that is exactly what he was doing throughout these 19 interviews: giving them information that they couldn't get elsewhere, giving them information that was moving their investigation forward. He was a good witness. He was a cooperating witness, unlike, say, Paul Manafort, as we're now seeing. He lied to investigators, and we're going to see the result of that in the weeks to come, potentially, with his plea deal falling apart.
BLITZER: And Friday, we'll see this memorandum about the extent of that --
TOOBIN: You know what I don't understand about the Mueller investigation -- Laura, maybe you know. Is why is he allowing Michael Cohen to be sentenced next week? If I'm the prosecutor, I want to keep that lever over Michael Cohen as long as possible. Get his testimony in the grand jury, maybe get his testimony in trials. Why, if you are Robert Mueller, do you allow Michael Cohen to be sentenced next week?
COATES: Well, you know, if I can read your tea leaves real quick, what I think the issue here and the reason may be is that they have been strategic in the charges they have levied against these people.
We think about someone like Michael Flynn. He only pled guilty to one count. Double jeopardy will attach to only that one count. Now, there is issues of Turkey, the foreign registration, lobbying and not registering as that. Maybe other issues, as well. There are still hooks that they could put in him, perhaps, to say, "You have an incentive to stay on the straight and narrow and to cooperate in the future, because I have things that are hanging over your head, potentially maybe more charges." That's the only thing I can think of.
TOOBIN: Yes. It's strange -- I mean, prosecutors -- you talked about the four times that the -- that the Flynn testimony was put off. Prosecutors love to put off sentence. Because it's an incredible lever over people. Michael Cohen just pled guilty a few weeks ago, and he's suddenly getting sentenced? It's just very strange.
BLITZER: Yes, Sabrina, it's important to remember, Flynn is just one of seven Trump associates who are now cooperating, presumably, fully with Mueller. We can't underestimate the importance of the information they are providing.
SABRINA SIDDIQUI, "THE GUARDIAN": Yes. In fact, Flynn was the first major Trump administration official to enter into a plea agreement with the special counsel.
But as you note, he is one of seven Trump associates. Jeffrey points outs that Michael Cohen has been a significant collaborator, and we learned just last week about the conversations around the Trump Tower project in Moscow that went well into the campaign.
We also don't know what's going to come from the cooperation of Rick Gates, who was Paul Manafort's deputy on the campaign and whose sentencing has also been postponed as he continues to cooperate in multiple investigations.
But Flynn is really key, because he was not only part of the early days of the administration, he was also a member of the transition team. He was also an adviser to the campaign. So he was really in Trump's inner circle for a lengthy period of time. And that's why, while a lot of this is redacted, the fact that we see from the memo that he has substantially cooperated with the special counsel, that should have the president and his legal team very concerned.
BLITZER: Yes, he spent a year on the campaign with the president, traveling with him, so he knows all about that. Was there throughout the transition from November until January 20. And a month as national security adviser.
Everybody, stand by. Much more on all the news right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: We're back with our political and legal experts.
[17:34:15] Laura Coates, the filing appears to reveal that there are at least three ongoing investigations with at least one criminal investigation under way right now. But there's a lot of heavily- redacted, blacked-out parts. But at some point, they're going to reveal what's redacted right now, right?
LAURA COATES, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: They will. I mean, the revelation, however, will probably come through the pattern that's already emerged. The talking indictments. These two other ongoing investigations that have been noted, they may
have been farmed out to other U.S. attorneys' offices, like we saw, for example, with Michael Cohen in the SDNY. We may have opportunities to see these cases evolve or more -- and be reclaimed at some point, just like Michael Cohen, where they sent it out to New York, and then he brought it back for the guilty plea about misleading Congress. I think that he left himself some room to be malleable as the evidence and opportunities came in.
But I do think that overall, Mueller's strategy has been, having this and creating this aura of anxiety. I mean, the more that people feel as though they are in suspense, the more it compels people to be forthcoming.
[17:35:12] As he noted in the sentencing memorandum, the first to squeal got the best deal, and the first to squeal is Michael Flynn, who essentially, encouraged others to come forward, because they had this air of uncertainty. So perhaps it's both strategy and also about not wanting to give away testimony they want to come in naturally.
BLITZER: And perhaps, Jeffrey -- I want your thoughts -- it's also a way for Mueller to get on the record, even though it's redacted, what's going on. The extent of the potential criminal investigation. And in the -- with the fear ahead that maybe the acting attorney general might not want him to reveal all that information.
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN CHIEF LEGAL ANALYST: It is certainly true that Mueller has used court filings to tell a story. I mean, the most dramatic example of that, I think, are the two cases against the Russians, the social media case and the hacking case, where the speaking indictments were -- you know, telling a story that he probably will never get a chance to tell in court, because those defendants are never going to show up.
The other point I think is worth noting about the fact that these -- this information is redacted from the -- from the Flynn paper yesterday is everybody is talking as if Mueller is all done. That he's wrapping things up. Loose ends. That didn't read to me like he was all done. These are cases that are pending. Otherwise, you wouldn't black out the lines. I just think, you know, maybe people want it done, but I didn't see that as evidence that it was done.
BLITZER: How did you see it, Sabrina?
SABRINA SIDDIQUI, "THE GUARDIAN": Well, I certainly think, when you look at the extent of the cooperation, and that there may, in fact, be or parallel investigations that are under way, we don't know whether Robert Mueller is, in fact, wrapping up this investigation. A lot of that speculation is merely political.
But he has no incentive when he has, for example, someone like Michael Flynn having talked to investigators on 19 different occasions. Michael Cohen spent -- I think it was 70 hours talking to prosecutors. Don McGahn, the former White House counsel, spent 30 hours speaking with investigators. And we don't really know what they shared with the special counsel. And that's something that the special counsel can use as leverage to compel others to come forward.
BLITZER: He did send a pretty powerful signal, Mueller, Rebecca, to others out there: "You know what? Yes, the president has the power to pardon, but if you cooperate and tell the truth, you may wind up with zero time in jail, as well."
REBECCA BERG, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: That's a really good point, Wolf. The incentive structure that he laid out for other cooperating witnesses, who are currently cooperating, like someone like Rick Gates or someone like Paul Manafort who maybe he wants to bring back into the fold, or witnesses who could become cooperating witnesses into the future, it's very clear. If you are a good witness, a cooperating witness, to this investigation, you will be rewarded.
And it's not just Flynn. You look at George Papadopoulos, as well. He has been richly rewarded with very little penalty. And so that's a very good point.
The president, as we know, is mercurial. You can't really depend on him to pardon. Someone like Mueller, there's a structure in place.
BLITZER: Papadopoulos cooperated, pleaded guilty, got two weeks in jail.
Everybody, stick around. There's much more we're following, including the very emotional tributes to the late president, George H.W. Bush, and a very moving state funeral. But there were also some tensions that were evident between President Trump and his predecessors.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[17:43:05] BLITZER: We're back with our experts as we continue to stand by for the arrival of the presidential aircraft carrying the Bush family and the remains of the former president, George H.W. Bush, to Texas. We'll have live coverage of that coming up.
But Jeffrey, I want to show you and our viewers some video. When President Trump and the first lady arrived at the National Cathedral today, you can see that they sat down. Watch the awkwardness that was a quick handshake with former President Obama, with Michelle Obama. Nothing with former President Bill Clinton. Look at Hillary Clinton. She's just looking straight ahead. She's not even noticing them. Jimmy Carter, Rosalynn Carter sitting at the other end. They're not paying attention either. It was sort of awkward.
TOOBIN: Sort of? Yes. It was -- I mean, it was frosty.
But, you know, who was the guy who was chanting "Lock 'em up" at her rallies -- I mean, his rallies? I mean, I don't think there is any pretense that these people have any admiration, respect, affection for one another. And it was on display there.
BLITZER: Sabrina, in contrast to the way the president -- and when he walked in, sat down, the way he sort of awkwardly shook hands, look at how President George W. Bush, when he was walking in with the -- with his wife, Laura Bush, he walked over, and you're going to see it in a second. He walked over to -- he noticed his colleagues, other presidents, and he walked over, shook hands, clearly, with the current president and the first lady. But then watch. He went over to Barack Obama, went over to Michelle Obama, and then -- and he handed her some candy as he did so. And then he went over to Bill Clinton and Hillary Clinton, Jimmy Carter, Rosalynn Carter. He went over and welcomed all of them personally. What does that say to you, Sabrina?
SIDDIQUI: Well, the former presidents, all of whom were gathered today, are bound by this shared belief that, even if you have been political opponents, even if you come from opposite ends of the ideological spectrum, you can still reach across the aisle. You can still be civil.
[17:45:00] You can still forge meaningful relationships that stem more from your shared humanity.
And that's also what we've seen in this unlikely friendship between former President George W. Bush and former first lady Michelle Obama. It's a lot of what we heard when it comes to the legacy of the former president -- the late President George H.W. Bush.
And I think when you look at the way that that contrasts so starkly with President Trump, it really comes down to the tone that he has set from the top -- never apologizing for suggesting that Hillary Clinton should be jailed, never apologizing for questioning the legitimacy of the nation's first Black president.
And so, you know, a lot of the civility that the White House has called for that hasn't been shown by the person who currently occupies the Oval Office. And you really saw that in the atmosphere today.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: How do you see it, Rebecca?
REBECCA BERG, CNN POLITICAL REPORTER: I was really struck by that moment, Wolf, between Donald Trump and the Obamas. It was a very gracious moment for the Obamas, especially, I think, because of the tension that there has been between those two families.
And Michelle Obama recently, in her new book "Becoming," wrote that she could never forgive Donald Trump for starting the birther conspiracy theory about her husband. And nevertheless, at this moment, was able to look at him and shake his hand, not wanting to cause any drama at this very solemn event.
BLITZER: All right, guys, stick around. There's more news we're following, including some alarming new satellite photos revealing Kim Jong-un has been expanding a long-range missile base in the mountains. How will it affect his relationship with President Trump?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[17:51:19] BLITZER: Tonight, alarming new satellite pictures appear to confirm that the North Korean leader Kim Jong-un, rather than getting rid of his missiles and nuclear weapons, actually is expanding his offensive capacity. CNN's Brian Todd has been working his sources for us. Brian, what are
you learning?
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, we're getting new information tonight and satellite pictures showing that Kim Jong-un is operating a base deep in the mountains of North Korea, a base which can deploy missiles capable of hitting the United States.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TODD (voice-over): CNN has obtained exclusive new satellite images tonight showing Kim Jong-un is moving full steam ahead with an aggressive, dangerous missile program. Even as he prepares for a possible second summit with President Trump.
New pictures from the Middlebury Institute at Monterey show Kim's regime has expanded a long-range missile base deep in the mountains of North Korea, right up against the Chinese border.
CATHERINE DILL, SENIOR RESEARCH ASSOCIATE, MIDDLEBURY INSTITUTE OF INTERNATIONAL STUDIES AT MONTEREY: This missile base could be a future deployment site for missiles that could strike the United States.
TODD (voice-over): The base is called Yeongjeo-dong. Middlebury's experts say it's not used to build or test fire those enormous long- range North Korean missiles, but its elaborate network of tunnels is used to store those missiles. Tunnel construction has continued over the past five years.
DILL: This shows a tunnel into the mountain. And this is what we would call a drive-through facility where they're going to drive vehicles that carry missiles, in this case, transporter erector launchers, into the side of the mountain.
TODD (voice-over): Experts say, at any moment, the North Koreans could roll out the missiles on those mobile launchers and move them anywhere to fire them off, giving U.S. defenses less time to detect the launch.
REBECCAH HEINRICHS, SENIOR FELLOW, HUDSON INSTITUTE: That gives the regime a coercive power over the United States that they can threaten American cities.
TODD (voice-over): The new images also reveal a new missile facility just seven miles away from the original missile base at Yeongjeo-dong. These pictures show that over the past year, construction has continued on the headquarters and barracks of the base.
Middlebury says at least some of the other construction at the Yeongjeo-dong base took place after the Singapore summit in June. All this, despite the North Korean's destroying a separate missile engine test facility earlier this year and blowing up the entrances to their main nuclear bomb-testing site.
But experts say some of those moves are deceptive. HEINRICHS: All of those efforts are basically perfunctory. They can
be reversed. None of them are permanent.
TODD (voice-over): And the new images of the Yeongjeo-dong base, analysts say, should send a sobering message to President Trump and his team of negotiators.
HEINRICHS: Kim is willing to say one thing to the Trump administration to keep this diplomatic detente going, but they're continuing to work on their missile program, their nuclear program unabated.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TODD: The Middlebury Institute says under any American denuclearization deal with Kim Jong-un, this is the kind of facility the North Koreans are going to have to allow international inspectors to see to make sure that these facilities are dismantled and that the missiles are no longer armed with nuclear weapons.
Now, will Kim's regime let those inspectors see places like this? Analysts say it's unlikely. Neither the White House, the State Department, the Pentagon, nor U.S. intelligence is commenting on the new information about this missile base.
Wolf, it was just yesterday that Trump's national security adviser John Bolton said North Korea has not lived up to its commitment so far. This is more proof of that and, of course, we're still talking about a second summit between Trump and Kim Jong-un.
BLITZER: And, Brian, the U.S. has asked for access to this particular site before, right?
TODD: They have, Wolf. Eighteen years ago, then-Secretary of State Madeleine Albright personally asked Kim Jong-un's father, Kim Jong-il, for access to this very base, Yeongjeo-dong, and for access to other bases. Kim Jong-il flatly rejected that. They've had a long history of trying to hide these places.
[17:55:03] BLITZER: Excellent reporting, Brian. Thank you very much.
Coming up, with page after page of blackouts in Robert Mueller's latest court filing, what is the Special Counsel holding back about his Russia investigation?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Happening now, breaking news. Coming home. The Bush family brings its patriarch back to Texas after a powerful and emotional state funeral for the 41st President. The tributes to George Herbert Walker Bush continue this hour.
[17:59:55] Cold shoulders. President Trump is face-to-face with some of his most bitter rivals as he joins all four living past presidents at the Bush state funeral. Did he walk away feeling snubbed?
