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Lt. Col. Alexander Vindman Removed From White House; Interview With Sen. Tina Smith (D-MN); Rep. Adam Schiff (D-CA) To CNN, Bolton Refused To Give Sworn Affidavit In Impeachment Trial; Iowa Democratic Chair Admits He Didn't Use Flawed App Before Caucuses; Impeachment Witness Sondland to be Recalled. Aired 6-7p ET
Aired February 07, 2020 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[18:00:04]
ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Welcome to our viewers in the United States and around the world. I'm Wolf Blitzer in THE SITUATION ROOM.
We're following breaking news.
A White House official who provided key testimony in the impeachment inquiry into President Trump has just been fired. Lieutenant Colonel Alexander Vindman, a top Ukraine expert over at the National Security Council, was told his services were no longer needed, and he was escorted out of the White House, according to his attorney.
The same lawyer also says that Vindman 's twin brother, a National Security Council attorney, also a commissioned U.S. Army officer, has also been fired.
We will talk about the breaking news and more with Senator Tina Smith. And our correspondents and analysts are also standing by.
First, let's get straight to the White House.
Our chief White House correspondent, Jim Acosta, is joining us.
Jim, many Democrats warned that there could be retribution against impeachment witnesses. Tell us what's going on.
JIM ACOSTA, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Wolf.
President Trump is making it clear he is seeking retribution against his perceived enemies after this impeachment fight. Just hours after he was asked about the fate of Lieutenant Colonel Alexander Vindman, the lieutenant colonel and his brother were both fired and escorted off of the White House grounds.
All week long, Republicans were saying that perhaps the president had learned a lesson after his impeachment battle, but Mr. Trump is making it clear tonight, it's payback time.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) ACOSTA (voice-over): President Trump is charging full speed ahead on his vindictive victory lap, sounding like he's on a warpath against his perceived enemies.
First on the president's list appears to be national security official Alexander Vindman, who was fired and escorted off of the White House grounds. His brother was forced out as well.
The president all but hinted at the move earlier in the day.
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Well, I'm not happy with him. You think I supposed to be happy with him? I'm not.
ACOSTA: It was Lieutenant Colonel Vindman, a Purple Heart recipient, who got under the president's skin, testifying during the impeachment inquiry.
LT. COL. ALEXANDER VINDMAN, DIRECTOR FOR EUROPEAN AFFAIRS, NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL: This is the country I have served and defended, that all my brothers have served. And, here, right matters.
ACOSTA: Vindman's lawyer released a statement saying it's obvious why his client was fired, writing: "There is no question in the mind of any American why this man's job is over, why this country now has one less soldier serving it at the White House."
Talking to reporters, the president was tearing into another target, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, claiming she could somehow be prosecuted for ripping up his speech at the State of the Union.
TRUMP: I thought it was a terrible thing when she ripped up the speech. First of all, it's an official document. You're not allowed. It's illegal, what she did. She broke the law.
ACOSTA: Mr. Trump is still fixated on the impeachment fight, tweeting and retweeting dozens of times just in the last 24 hours.
In an interview with CNN, the Democratic House managers who presented the case against the president and the Senate are insisting Mr. Trump will never change his ways.
REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES (D-NY): Yes, of course he hasn't learned a lesson, because, as we repeatedly pointed out throughout the trial, Donald Trump is a serial solicitor.
ACOSTA: The Democrats have just lost another legal battle with the president after a unanimous court decision to dismiss claims that Mr. Trump was violating the Constitution's Emoluments Clause by accepting foreign payments at his Washington, D.C. hotel.
TRUMP: So, I just got this. It was just handed to me. This is the D.C. Circuit. And we get one the big emoluments case. I think it was a unanimous decision. This was brought by Nancy Pelosi and her group.
ACOSTA: The president also has a spring in his step after the latest unemployment numbers found 225,000 jobs were created last month. TRUMP: We just came out with fantastic job numbers. I think it was
230,000 or something thereabouts, which was much higher than projection. So jobs continue to be great. Our country continues to do great.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ACOSTA: Now, as for the potential for other changes over here at the White House, the president was pushing back earlier today that his acting Chief of Staff Mick Mulvaney could be heading out the door.
A senior administration official told me early today that rumors of Mulvaney's demise have been -- quote -- "greatly exaggerated."
But as for the potential of other people coming in, that could be happening soon. North Carolina Republican Congressman Mark Meadows has been talked about as a potential addition over here to the White House staff in an advisory role to the president.
Two officials told me earlier today that could happen in the coming weeks. But, Wolf, getting back to the fate of Lieutenant Colonel Alexander Vindman, all you have to do is look at the statement that came from his lawyer earlier today. This lawyer is making it very clear that Vindman was pushed out for telling the truth -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Jim Acosta at the White House, thank you.
Let's get some more on the breaking news right now.
Our senior national correspondent, Alex Marquardt, is joining us.
Alex, Lieutenant Colonel Vindman isn't the only person no longer in their administration positions after testifying during the Ukraine investigation.
ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's right, Wolf.
There have been a number of officials who have left in a variety of circumstances after testifying in those Ukraine hearings last year. Now, some of them, like Tim Morrison, he was in charge of Europe and Russia at the National Security Council.
[18:05:03]
He did not leave under a cloud, but several others did after testifying that what they saw, what they heard by the president and his aides in Ukraine was wrong, like Ambassador Bill Taylor.
He had been the most senior U.S. diplomat in Ukraine. He testified that, yes, that aid had been withheld from Ukraine in exchange for political investigations.
And then he was called back from his post right before the secretary of state, Mike Pompeo, was due to visit Kiev, which, of course, would have made for a very awkward encounter. His time, Taylor's time, with the State Department, that was not
extended, as it could have been, and he left the State Department. Now, Taylor had succeeded Ambassador Marie Yovanovitch in Ukraine. Yovanovitch was a highly respected career diplomat. And the president yanked her out of Ukraine back in April.
She testified about Giuliani's concerted campaign against her in Ukraine. And, then just a week ago, she retired from the State Department after just -- after more than 30 years of service.
And then, Wolf, there's Jennifer Williams. She was the vice president's adviser on Russia. She also heard that infamous July 25 call, when President Trump asked for an investigation into the Bidens and Ukraine.
She said that she found it unusual and inappropriate. Jennifer Williams was supposed to end her detail with Mike Pence's office at the end of March. But she left two months early and went back to the State Department.
Finally, we end up with what happened today, Lieutenant Colonel Alexander Vindman and his brother both being fired, a clear act of retribution, as you have been saying, Wolf, by the president.
BLITZER: Alex, these are all experts. What are the national security implications potentially?
MARQUARDT: And, as they leave, their expertise goes with them, Wolf.
So what you're seeing now is some of the most respected officials in their fields being pushed out of the White House and the State Department.
The administration is losing their expertise at a critical time for U.S. foreign policy. Marie Yovanovitch, for example, she'd been an ambassador three times. And the country that she was pulled out of, Ukraine, is currently at war with Russia.
Alex Vindman, he's originally from Ukraine. He speaks the language. He served in Kiev and in Moscow. And he's considered very much an expert on both those countries. Now the White House no longer has that.
So these are the people who manage the relationships with these countries. They know them inside out. They deal with them on policy day to day. They're getting sidelined, which is an unhealthy, even dangerous way to carry out foreign policy.
In the meantime, Wolf, this impeachment chapter of the story in the Ukraine saga may have just closed, but there is a lot more that we don't know.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MARQUARDT (voice-over): The trial may have ended.
JOHN ROBERTS, CHIEF JUSTICE OF THE U.S. SUPREME COURT: Donald John Trump, president of the United States, is not guilty as charged in the second article of impeachment.
MARQUARDT: But the Ukraine saga is not over.
REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): So we will continue to do our oversight to protect and defend the Constitution, which is three co-equal branches of government, each a check and balance on the other.
MARQUARDT: Both Democrats and Republicans now with their sights set on their own targets. For Democrats, it's John Bolton, the president's former national security adviser, who said he'd be willing to testify in the Senate trial if subpoenaed. But Republicans blocked witnesses.
So Democrats asked him to submit a sworn document, which Bolton declined.
REP. ADAM SCHIFF (D-CA): Frankly, it's more inexplicable that, when he was willing to come forward before the Senate, that the senators did not want to hear what he had to say.
MARQUARDT: Now House Democrats say it's likely they will subpoena Bolton, who has a book coming out, reported on in "The New York Times," that further alleges that the president did link military aid for Ukraine with personal political investigations, and that he pressured Bolton to help him.
SCHIFF: He will have to explain at some point why he is willing to put this in a book, but not in an affidavit under oath.
MARQUARDT: Bolton's tell-all book and willingness to testify angered Republicans, who argue that the Bidens' role in Ukraine deserves more scrutiny, though there's no evidence Joe Biden did anything wrong.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): We're going to get to the bottom of this. And I can prove beyond any doubt that Joe Biden's effort in the Ukraine to root out corruption was undercut because he let his son sit on the board of the most corrupt company in the Ukraine. And we're not going to give him a pass on that.
MARQUARDT: The Trump administration has already handed over documents and information to Senate Republicans on Hunter Biden, after the White House refused to cooperate with House Democrats on their requests.
The president denied today he still wants Ukraine to investigate Joe and Hunter Biden.
TRUMP: I'm not their boss. And I don't think they have done anything, as far as I know. But it's very sad what happened with the Bidens. And it's also very sad how he's doing, how he's doing in the polls.
MARQUARDT: The president commenting on the 2020 campaign, which Lev Parnas, the indicted associate of Rudy Giuliani, told CNN was at the center of their mission in Ukraine on behalf of President Trump.
[18:10:04]
LEV PARNAS, INDICTED GIULIANI ASSOCIATE: That was the most important thing is for him to stay on for another four years and keep the fight going. I mean, there was no other reason for doing it.
MARQUARDT: Trump has said he wasn't close to Parnas, who has released many photos of them together. Parnas' lawyer tells CNN, there's much more to come, saying: "The universe of subject matter is yet to be publicly revealed, but is of interest in matters well beyond the impeachment inquiry."
RUDY GIULIANI, ATTORNEY FOR PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: Look at this guy. He's a ferocious guy.
MARQUARDT: These new exclusive photos and videos from Parnas are of Giuliani in Spain at a bullfight, where Parnas says Giuliani was courting a wealthy Venezuelan client who was interested in Giuliani's connections to Trump and the Department of Justice.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MARQUARDT: And as for that trip to Spain, Giuliani has told CNN that he can't discuss it because it's a matter of national security -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Alex Marquardt reporting for us, thank you very much.
Let's get some more on all of this.
Democratic Senator Tina Smith of Minnesota is joining us.
Senator, thanks so much for coming in.
You think Lieutenant Colonel Vindman's dismissal was an act of retribution by the president?
SEN. TINA SMITH (D-MN): Well, it is no surprise that the president is acting out of retribution, rather than regret.
I mean, we knew that he was going to do this. And the poignancy of the moment when we heard the testimony on the Senate floor about Vindman saying, this -- dad, this is America. In America, you're OK if you tell the truth.
BLITZER: Well, let me play that clip.
SMITH: Yes.
BLITZER: We have that clip.
SMITH: Right.
BLITZER: Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VINDMAN: Dad, I'm sitting here today in the U.S. Capitol talking to our elected professionals -- talking to our elected professionals -- is proof that you made the right decision 40 years ago to leave the Soviet Union, come here to the United States of America, in search of a better life for our family.
Do not worry. I will be fine for telling the truth.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: So the family are refugees, Soviet Jewish refugees. They settle in Brooklyn. The two twin brothers, they go into the military.
They're U.S. Army officers. They have an older brother who is a commissioned Army officer. Lieutenant Colonel Vindman serves -- served in Iraq, was wounded, received a medal. And is this the appropriate way for him to be treated?
SMITH: It's not only inappropriate, but it goes against the whole idea of our country and our government, which is that you tell the truth, even to people who hold power, and you're going to be OK.
And it reminds me of another moment in the testimony that I could never forget, which is when the U.S. diplomats were talking to the Ukrainian diplomats about urging them not to follow the corrupt path of investigating their political opponents.
And the Ukrainian diplomat said back, oh, you mean like you want us to do with the Bidens and the Clintons.
It undermines our credibility and our values.
BLITZER: That was a powerful moment.
What, if anything, can the U.S. Senate, for example -- you're a senator -- do?
SMITH: Well, it's not clear to me that there is much that the United States Senate can do.
But one thing I feel so strongly about, to hear colleagues of mine say -- sort of sit on the sidelines and say, this is inappropriate, this shouldn't be happening, when, in the Senate, we had the power to hold this president accountable, and some of my colleagues didn't take that opportunity, to me, that is just a gross misaction.
BLITZER: Clearly, things have gone well in the last week or so for the president. He was acquitted in the Senate impeachment trial.
Take a look at the new jobs numbers that just came out today, 225,000 jobs, unemployment 3.6 percent, the new Gallup poll among -- the highest it's been in three years that he's been president, his job approval number among all Americans 49 percent.
That's the highest number since he was president; 94 percent, by the way, of Republicans approve of the job he's doing. So he feels pretty confident right now.
SMITH: Well, you can see how confident he feels. And that's probably why, yesterday, he had this unbelievable display of disrespect and I think dishonor in the White House, in the way that he kind of, again, expressed his retribution towards those that have disagreed with him.
But the point is -- it's a really good point that you make -- in the coming months, we are going to -- the Democrats are going to need to make the case for what we can do to build a strong economy and hold him to account for this idea that he's somehow presiding over this great economic recovery, when, really, what he's doing is presiding over the end -- or at this point of an Obama recovery, and a recovery that is because of great American businesses and workers.
BLITZER: Your home state of Minnesota is clearly in play in this election cycle.
SMITH: Absolutely.
BLITZER: Tell us about that.
SMITH: Yes, Minnesota is very much in play.
It is a new swing state. And what I think about when I hear the president talk about his strong economic points is that, in Minnesota, you might be thinking that things are doing OK economically, but just down the street from you is a farmer whose farm has gone into foreclosure, because we are seeing a 20 percent uptick in farm bankruptcies in Minnesota.
You might be thinking about your child who's got $35,000 in school debt, or your mom who can't afford her health insurance.
[18:15:03]
These are the fundamental economic factors that are affecting the way people's lives are going in Minnesota and I think everywhere in this country.
BLITZER: Senator Tina Smith of Minnesota, thank you so much for coming in.
SMITH: Thank you.
BLITZER: Appreciate it.
The breaking news continues next, with more on the firing of National Security Council Ukraine expert Lieutenant Colonel Alexander Vindman, in the wake of his impeachment testimony.
Plus, we've got some new developments with the chaos surrounding the Iowa caucuses and a new admission tonight from the state's Democratic Party chairman.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: The breaking news tonight: Lieutenant Colonel Alexander Vindman fired from his White House job over at the National Security Council, along with his brother, in the wake of Vindman's testimony in the impeachment inquiry.
[18:20:01]
Let's dig deeper with our experts and our analysts.
And, Jeffrey Toobin. I want to play a clip for you. This was Lieutenant Colonel Vindman testifying in November before the House Intelligence Committee on the phone conversation -- and he was listening to it -- that the president had with the new President Zelensky of Ukraine.
Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VINDMAN: I was concerned by the call. What I heard was inappropriate.
And I reported my concerns to Mr. Eisenberg. It is improper for the president of the United States to demand a foreign government investigate a U.S. citizen and a political opponent.
Frankly, I couldn't believe what I was hearing. There was probably an element of shock that, maybe in certain regards, my worst fear of how our Ukraine policy could play out was playing out.
Now this was likely to have significant implications for U.S. national security.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: And now he and his twin brother, also a U.S. Army officer, a JAG, a lawyer who worked at the National Security Council, both of them were escorted out of the White House.
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Yes, I mean, this is how authoritarian countries work, that people are offended for -- people are fired for offending the dear leader, not breaking any laws, not violating any rules, but just being on the wrong side. and they get fired.
And it's a particularly North Korean touch that his brother gets fired too, who wasn't even involved in this matter.
But, look, I mean, these are -- these are the choices that are available to the American people. And what I always remember in these events is that Donald Trump got elected behaving this way, and he may well get reelected behaving this way.
So the idea that there are going to be any changes, that's something that people should just put out of their minds. Not going to happen.
BLITZER: Samantha Vinograd, you worked at the National Security Council during the Obama administration.
What's your reaction when you heard what was going on?
SAMANTHA VINOGRAD, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, I think many of us are asking ourselves what kind of man, let alone what kind of president, gets off on trying to publicly humiliate a decorated war hero.
But, leaving that aside, we have to look at this both from a punishment and a deterrence perspective. The president is going after both. He is trying to punish Lieutenant Colonel Vindman and his brother, who was, in fact, involved in this episode, because Lieutenant Colonel Vindman went to his brother to report his concerns.
But this is also about deterrence. Wolf. The whole cost-benefit calculation associated with reporting abuse through legally protected channels has been thrown on its head. The benefit has been degraded. Congress is clearly a dead end when it comes to presidential accountability, because Republicans have given the president a lifelong get-out-of-jail free card.
And the costs have increased so significantly. We know that Lieutenant Colonel Vindman, Marie Yovanovitch and others have received public threats. They have got physical threats. They have been publicly smeared.
And now you have to ask professional retaliation to the list of costs associated with reporting on the president. So, overall, this will have a chilling effect on presidential accountability going forward.
BLITZER: Ron Brownstein is with us.
I want to play -- or I want to read to you the statement that Chuck Schumer, the Democratic leader in the Senate, put out.
"As usual, the White House runs away from the truth. Lieutenant Colonel Vindman lived up to his oath to protect and defend our Constitution. This action is not a sign of strength. It only shows President Trump's weakness."
What's going to be the impact of all of this?
RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, when I saw this happen today, the only thing I could think of immediately was the statement by Susan Collins a couple days ago, Senator Susan Collins, that Trump had learned a pretty big lesson from impeachment.
And by -- what she meant, that he was so chastened by it, that he would not behave in this kind of manner.
In fact, he did learn a lesson, as both Jeffrey and Sam were suggesting, which is that there is no -- there is no line he can cross that Republicans in Congress will hold him to account on.
And he feels, I think, very much emboldened to continue to shape a government that is essentially an extension of his will, and kind of breaks any idea of independence.
Chuck Grassley, the senator from Iowa, an historic champion of whistle-blowers, for years championing the cause of whistle-blowers, the importance of whistle-blowers, where was he today? What did he have to say about this? If anything, he said that he is now going to go and investigate the
Bidens and Ukraine, extending by another means the kind of behavior that Colonel Vindman was so alarmed at on the call.
So, to me, just another day that says one party alone cannot uphold the norms and the rules of democracy. If Republicans in Congress are essentially saying to the president, we will -- we will look the other way almost no matter what you do, this is what you're going to get, and you're just going to get more of it.
BLITZER: Well, let's bring him in Lulu Garcia-Navarro.
[18:25:01]
What do you think?
LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, NATIONAL PUBLIC RADIO: Well, I mean, I think a lot of things.
But, first of all, the clear thing is that, when you speak about deterrence, as you did, it's not only deterrence in terms of trying to make sure that whistle-blowers don't come forward, but it's also political deterrence.
I mean, we have seen this president from the get-go send a message to anyone who tries to challenge him that, if you do not show loyalty, if you do not toe the line, you will have repercussions, and they will be very serious.
And we saw that today with Colonel Vindman.
BLITZER: Yes, a sad moment.
All right, everybody, stand by.
There's more news, CNN's exclusive interview with the House impeachment managers, and what Adam Schiff revealed about former National Security Adviser John Bolton.
We will discuss.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:30:00]
BLITZER: President Trump's impeachment trial in the Senate is over, but House Democrats still want to hear from his former national security adviser, John Bolton. And in an exclusive interview with CNN's Anderson Cooper, lead House impeachment manager Adam Schiff revealed new details about Bolton's refusal to give a sworn affidavit.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. ADAM SCHIFF (D-CA): We reached out to John Bolton's counsel after the senators voted down his testimony to see whether he would be willing to submit an affidavit under oath that would still be valuable during the trial.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Even if he wasn't coming to testify?
SCHIFF: Even if he wasn't going to come to testify.
COOPER: A sworn affidavit?
SCHIFF: A sworn affidavit, and he refused.
Now, he will have to explain at some point why he is willing to put this in a book but not in an affidavit under oath.
COOPER: He is making speeches in which he drops sort of comments as well?
SCHIFF: Yes. You know, it is fairly inexplicable. But, you know, frankly, it's more inexplicable that when he was willing to come forward before the Senate that the senators did not want to hear what he had to say. And for those senators, and there have been a few to say, we didn't need to hear from John Bolton because, basically, the House proved the president guilty even without him. And we should let the voters decide. They could not the explain why they don't want the voters to know the full facts.
COOPER: Did Bolton's attorneys explain to you why he would not even submit an affidavit?
SCHIFF: Not that I'm aware of, no. Nor why he would distinguish between testimony in the House versus the Senate.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Anderson's the full interview with Schiff and all of the seven House impeachment managers, that airs on a special A.C. 360 later tonight, 8:00 P.M. Eastern.
Jeffrey, Toobin, what do you make of what we just heard from Congressman Adam Schiff?
TOOBIN: Well, you know, John Bolton is going to have to explain at some point why he's behaved the way he has. One thing I think it is important to say somewhat in Bolton's defense is that his book is in a classified information review, which, as of fairly recently, it had not completed. So he was not in a position to release the book in advance.
Now, if he really wanted to write an affidavit, I don't see any reason why he couldn't. But the idea that there is this classification review of his story going on is a complicating factor in his decision about how much he could go public before that review is finished.
BLITZER: Lulu, House Democrats are suggesting they still want to hear from Bolton and they're likely to subpoena him but what do they stand to gain at this point?
GARCIA-NAVARRO: Well, I think that's the question, what do they stand to gain. I think the longer that this drags on, a lot of people are asking, hey, this has already been decided. Why do we have to hear more information? You can't impeach the president twice. Is this all the Democrats can do? Can they only ask and ask and ask and go over the same ground? And I think it's a political calculation that they're going to have to decide how much benefit there is in hearing Bolton.
BLITZER: Do you see any points about that?
VINOGRAD: Look, I think it was very convenient for Ambassador Bolton to offer and testify when he knew he wasn't going to be called as a witness, right? I mean, he made that knowing that Republicans were not going to call him.
And to, Jeffrey's point, there is nothing classified about saying publicly from his Twitter feed or during one of his speeches or whatever that the president asked him to do something improper.
GARCIA-NAVARRO: He could have given a press conference at any time.
VINOGRAD: That's not top secret information. I am wholly aware of the restrictions placed on John Bolton via his NDA and other requirements he has to put this --
BLITZER: NDA is a non-disclosure agreement.
VINOGRAD: Non-disclosure agreement, excuse me, to put to this manuscript through normal procedures. Every official has to go through it. But the statements that the House was waiting for and that the Senate trial potentially could have benefitted from have nothing to do with classification issues.
TOOBIN: I -- that's probably true. But the classification process, as Sam knows, can be very political. And that manuscript had not been approved. And there was a letter from the National Security Council saying it had lots of classified information in it. So, you know, the fact is there was this letter outstanding saying you can't disclose something and that --
VINOGRAD: Right. But a manuscript is much bigger than a simple statement, for example, indicating that the president wanted him to pressure Ukraine or --
BLITZER: Ron, go ahead.
RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: I was going to say, you know, it really gets to the point that Adam Schiff made that I thought was so important. The internal inconsistency, the explosively inconsistent logic of a Lamar Alexander and other Republican senators saying the voters should decide and then immediately voting to deny the voters critical information in the form of the testimony from John Bolton, not to mention all the documents that might have been available, that would help them decide about the president's behavior.
[18:35:07]
I mean, the reality is that, you Know, whatever they were saying, the Republican senators were making a decision not only to exonerate the president but to prevent the public or to make it tougher for the public to get the full information. Of course, more will inexorably be out between now and November. And I think if and when John Bolton's book is published, if it is as to the reports, I think there will be some very tough questions for Thom Tillis and Martha McSally and Cory Gardner and Susan Collins perhaps above all about why they did not think it was relevant to hear what he had to say if it is anywhere near as explosive as it had been reported.
BLITZER: Before I let you guys go, Jeffrey, I want to show you and our viewers some exclusive images that CNN has obtained of Rudy Giuliani, the president's personal attorney, traveling around Spain with the criminally charged associate of his, Lev Parnas. It raises all sorts of additional questions about the nature of their relationship and the connection to the president.
TOOBIN: It does indeed. And, you know, the role of Rudy Giuliani, you know, yet another person who did not testify before the impeachment proceeding, what he was doing in Ukraine with whom, on who's nickel, that just is a question that remains. Whether Congress looks into that or whether just journalist do, I don't know. But the issue is not going to go away, or the FBI potentially.
VINOGRAD: Yes.
BLITZER: Well, he is facing criminal charges.
VINOGRAD: He is facing -- well, he is under investigation. We understand he is under counterintelligence investigation and otherwise. But, Wolf, Rudy Giuliani --
BLITZER: No, we're talking about Lev Parnas.
VINOGRAD: Excuse me, Lev Parnas, yes. I was speaking about Rudy Giuliani.
BLITZER: And Rudy Giuliani is under investigation. But Lev Parnas has been indicted.
VINOGRAD: He has been indicted. Lev Parnas has been indicted. And what the new images really show is that Lev Parnas and Rudy Giuliani were frankly working with a lot of other shady characters other than those involved in Ukraine scandal. There are new questions raised about their work with -- in Venezuela and elsewhere around the world.
And the key question for me post-impeachment is, why does Rudy Giuliani still have a job? He associated with Parnas. We have new information coming out. He had no indication that President Trump has stopped working with him.
BLITZER: Were you surprised, Lulu, yesterday when the president was thanking everyone for all the help he got during the course of the impeachment trial and the name Rudy Giuliani never came up?
GARCIA-NAVARRO: I wasn't surprised, because I think in that crowd, perhaps the name Rudy Giuliani would not be very welcomed. I mean, clearly, what he was doing was really making sure on the one hand, making sure who he was displeased with, but on the other hand, making sure that the people that he felt had his back were going to be thanked. Now, Rudy Giuliani is toxic at the moment.
BLITZER: What do you think, Ron?
BROWNSTEIN: Well, I thought the common theme in the story today, you know, kind of goes with what we've seen. Rudy Giuliani being hired by people around the world who kind of want to get their case in front of and heard favorably by the administration.
And, again, you know, just more -- you just have the sense that we are only at the early part of the story and there will be more of this between now and November. As someone said before, I mean, the question is how much do Democrats want to keep focusing on this as opposed to some of the bread and butter issues that helped them win in 2018, particularly healthcare. But there's no question, I think, that the revelations will continue. And I suspect the House will continue to investigate.
BLITZER: We'll see what happens. All right, guys, stick around. There's more news we're following, including a truly stunning admission from Iowa's Democratic Party chairman as the clock is chaos extends into next week.
Plus, the coronavirus scare on a cruise ship in New Jersey, as hundreds of Americans remain quarantined.
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[18:40:00]
BLITZER: Tonight, the chairman of Iowa's Democratic Party is admitting he didn't try out the flawed app that had the results of Monday's caucuses in limbo.
Let's go to our Political Correspondent, Abby Phillip. She's joining us from New Hampshire right now. Abby, officials have now extended a deadline that's going to push all of this confusion in Iowa into next week.
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Wolf. This is not done yet over in Iowa. And, in fact, officials have extended that deadline for when campaigns can officially request a re-canvass of the results until Saturday at 1:00 P.M. Eastern Standard Time.
But so far, none of the campaigns have indicated that they plan to request that re-canvassing. And, in fact, Bernie Sanders told CNN's Ryan Nobles today his campaign does not intend to call for a re- canvass. However, Sanders did say that they have some concerns about individual precincts and whether those precincts were tabulated accurately. And they're going to bring those concerns to the Iowa Democratic Party.
Now, all of this virtually guarantees that the saga is going to continue making it a full week before we might know the final results and even still, the race is still razor thin. There is 0.1 percent separating Pete Buttigieg who is currently in the delegate lead and Bernie Sanders, who is following up right behind him.
So a re-canvassing may not resolve those problems. But there are clearly some questions based on what the Sanders campaign is saying and based on CNN's own evaluation of the data that's been released that show that there are potentially some problems with this data.
[18:45:00]
Now, Iowa is not fully resolved, but we are really barreling toward New Hampshire, which is just a few days away and already things are heating up between these candidates.
We saw today, Bernie Sanders criticizing Pete Buttigieg by name, suggesting that he's raising money from billionaires and that Bernie Sanders' campaign is offering a different way forward. Remember, Sanders raises all of his money from grassroots donations.
All of the candidates are going to be on the debate stage here at the Saint Anselm College tonight. And I think we're expecting to see really more of the candidates going at each other in more explicit terms.
This is for a lot of the candidates an opportunity for them to get in front of New Hampshire voters for the last time before that Tuesday primary. And the stakes are extraordinarily high. Not just for Bernie Sanders, also for Joe Biden who has acknowledged he placed a disappointingly in fourth place in Iowa.
And his campaign is trying to retool. They announced some restructuring of their campaign, elevating their communications adviser Anita Dunn to a more expensive position within the campaign. And a campaign aide acknowledged that going forward, they're going to have to rethink their strategy as they head into the critical states of Nevada and South Carolina.
Now, Wolf, it's clear that Joe Biden's campaign is trying to lower expectations. And refuse to say in a conference call with reporters today how he needs to finish near New Hampshire and how he needs to finish in Nevada. They've been focusing on where he is very strong, which is South Carolina where the electorate gets a lot more diverse -- Wolf.
BLITZER: All right. Abby, thank you very much.
We have some additional breaking news coming into THE SITUATION ROOM right now. Earlier, you heard that Lieutenant Colonel Alexander Vindman was fired and his brother, a lawyer at the National Security Council, Eugene Vindman, also was fired. They were escorted out of the White House.
But now, we're getting word that the U.S. ambassador to the European Union, Gordon Sondland, he is out as well.
Kylie Atwood is with us. You got -- do have the statement that we just received?
KYLIE ATWOOD, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY REPORTER: Yes, that's right.
BLITZER: -- from the -- from Gordon, Ambassador Sondland?
ATWOOD: Yes. So, just in -- Ambassador Gordon Sondland, who is the U.S. ambassador to the E.U., who was appointed that position by President Trump, has now been told by the president that he is no longer needed. Essentially, he's been fired by the president.
He provided testimony as part of the House impeachment investigation. He provided that testimony publicly and he eventual came out and said that there was a quid pro quo with regard to President Trump and what he was asking of the Ukrainians and expecting he would get a favor, a favor that was politically advantageous to him in regard to what he was asking of Ukraine.
So, let's read what Ambassador Gordon Sondland's lawyer gave us, a statement from ambassador himself, saying, quote, "I was advised today that president intends to recall me effectively, effective immediately as the United States ambassador to the European Union. I am grateful to president Trump for having given me the opportunity to serve. To Secretary Pompeo, for his consistent support and to the exceptional and dedicated professionals at the U.S. mission to the European Union. I'm proud of our accomplishments, our work here has been the highlight of my career.
So this is some pretty astonishing news tonight, comes just off the heels of as you guys have been discussing, Lieutenant Colonel Vindman also escorted off the White House grounds earlier today.
BLITZER: Yes. It's a major development. And remember, Ambassador Gordon Sondland, he -- before he became ambassador, he gave a million -- $1 million to the Trump inaugural committee. And that is part of what is going on.
Let's go to Jim Acosta over at the White House.
ACOSTA: Yes.
BLITZER: Jim, has the White House now confirmed all of this? That in addition to Lieutenant Colonel Vindman and his brother, Eugene Vindman, now, Gordon Sondland, the ambassador, the U.S. ambassador to the European Union, is out.
ACOSTA: Wolf, I will tell you, officially, the White House is not commenting. They're only saying they will not talk about personnel matters.
I can tell you though from talking to my sources this evening that, you know, this is a cleaning up house. And this comes from the top. And there's just no other way around it.
You know, there has been some talk in recent weeks that the NSC would be doing some downsizing, and there is some talk that perhaps the White House could attach what happened to Vindman and his brother to that effort.
Obviously, you can't do that with Gordon Sondland. Gordon Sondland gave perhaps the most devastating testimony during the impeachment inquiry when he said there was a quid pro quo. And so, it does seem at this point, I was talking to a lawmaker, one of the relevant committees a short time ago about this, the expectation on some of the lawmakers is that the president and his team are going to be going after each and every individual who, you know, got in their crosshairs during the length of this saga.
[18:50:07]
And that includes Gordon Sondland. I will also pass along one other thing, Wolf. I just got off the phone in the last several minutes with a source close to the president. This is an adviser who speaks to him from time to time, who said, if you expect the president to change the way he handles these sort of things, he's not. This is not somebody who's going to change the way he operates.
And so, this is fully in character, this source was saying just a few moments ago, with how the president operates, how he acts, how he behaves. So I think we can continue to see the president carrying out these acts of retribution in the days to come. He clearly has not learned the kind of lesson that Republican Senator Susan Collins and others were talking about earlier this week. The only lesson the president appears to have taken from all of this is that he's escaped impeachment and now he can go after his enemies, real and imagined -- Wolf.
BLITZER: It's a significant development. It's a Friday night already and three officials --
ACOSTA: Friday night massacre, it seems.
BLITZER: Yes, I'm sure that's what people are going to start calling that.
Lieutenant Colonel Alexander Vindman and his brother, Eugene Vindman, his twin brother, both U.S. Army officers, they're out, and now, Gordon Sondland, the U.S. ambassador to the European Union, is out as well.
Samantha Vinograd, you used to work at the National Security Council during the Obama administration. Let me play a clip from Gordon Sondland's testimony that clearly deeply irritated the president.
We don't have -- we don't have that ready. We will have that sound ready. But clearly, at one point, he said, I know that members of this committee frequently frame these complicated issues in a form of a simple question, was there a quid pro quo. As I testified previously with regard to the requested White House call and the White House meeting, the answer is yes.
VINOGRAD: Wolf, let's be clear. Sondland being recalled is a plus security-wise. He was a walking, talking, texting counterintelligence risks. You know, arguably, he should have been under investigation by the state inspector general at a minimum while he was serving as U.S. ambassador to the E.U.
What's clear is he got on the wrong side of the president. We know from his testimony that as you read out loud, he did indicate his understanding that there was a quid pro quo and also said under oath that he was aware that Ukrainian -- that he thought Ukrainian officials were aware of the pressure campaign as well.
BLITZER: We've got Jim Sciutto who's joining us on the phone right now.
You're getting more information, Jim. What are you learning?
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (via telephone): Well, Wolf, you can call this Saturday night massacre after the facts, right?
BLITZER: Friday night massacre.
SCIUTTO: Right. The president firing everyone who testified against him or who he perceives to have testified against him, and the fact that this is extending to Sondland, of course, a political appointee, a donor put in this position by the president but a civil servant who served for the National Security Counsel, Vindman was a star witness in the impeachment proceedings, but extending even to his twin brother.
It is guilt by association. It's guilt apparently by telling the truth or your vision of the truth, right? Remember, these are people who testified under oath under penalty of perjury to what they knew about Ukraine, the president withholding the aid. You know, it's interesting, Wolf, we were building what would happen after the president's acquittal. Remember the July 25th phone call with Ukrainian president was the day after Robert Mueller had testified. Perhaps the president feeling vindicated, liberated at that moment, and he has this phone call.
So, a couple days after his acquittal, the president feeling vindicated, liberated to clean house, right, of anybody who he perceives was not sufficiently loyal. It's a remarkable moment.
BLITZER: It certainly is. They're dropping pretty quickly.
Jim Acosta, during his testimony, the ambassador to the E.U., he said at one point, I worked with Mr. Rudy Giuliani on Ukraine matters at the express direction of the president of the United States. So, we followed the president's orders. I followed the directions of the president.
That was pretty damning testimony.
ACOSTA: It was absolutely damning testimony. Wolf, you remember during the impeachment inquiry, Republicans on the president's team up on Capitol Hill and sources inside the White House, the White House legal team, they were pumping out talking points essentially attacking Ambassador Sondland and accusing him of contradicting himself on multiple occasions. And we were hearing for weeks that White House officials were saying, well, Gordon Sondland is doing just fine, there's not going to be a problem here. And they seem to be providing some cover for the action they're taking tonight.
Obviously, they were trying to minimize what Gordon Sondland was saying when, clearly, it was getting under the president's skin and under the skin of other people here at the White House.
[18:55:01]
I will tell you, just in the last few seconds as we've been talking here, I received a text from a Trump adviser, an adviser who talks to the White House and the campaign who put it this way, quote, flushing out the pipes. That is what this White House sees as what's happening right now.
These are individuals, Gordon Sondland, Alexander Vindman, Marie Yovanovitch, they crossed the president. And the message that is being sent not only inside the administration but up on Capitol Hill is if you cross this president, you pay the price. That is what's happening tonight. That's what's unfolding before our eyes right now, Wolf.
BLITZER: It certainly is.
You know, it's interesting, Kylie, that there are going to be ramifications from this not only among career diplomats but others who are serving on national security-related issues in the Trump administration.
ATWOOD: Yes, that's right. And the fear now is what about the other folks who provided testimony? We have already seen today three officials either escorted out of the White House or fired by the White House for providing testimony. And so, what about the other career folks at the State Department?
I spoke with about half of them earlier this week and they expressed fear about what would happen if President Trump was reelected. They weren't as fearful. They didn't expect that something would happen so immediately here, just days after he was acquitted by the Senate.
But the question mark is what happens to their careers going forth? Are they able to get to the next level, or is the Trump administration going to prevent career officials from getting where they want to go in their careers? I think that's something to watch.
VINOGRAD: If someone was political, right?
ATWOOD: Yes.
VINOGRAD: I think the broader message is just one we talked about earlier this hour which is deterring anybody from crossing the president whether a political appointee or career official. If you speak out against the president, you are going to be removed from your position.
BLITZER: I want to bring back Jim Sciutto. He's getting more information for us. This is -- as I've been saying, Jim, this is going to have serious consequences.
SCIUTTO: I've spoken to a number of people who work for this president. And one quality they describe almost unanimously is his thin skin, and that when he feels crossed, wronged, insufficient loyalty, he will make those people who he perceives to have crossed him pay. And we're seeing that now, in remarkable form. These are people who served for years, someone who donated to his campaign, right, and got a prized ambassador posting, in Sondland, someone who is still serving the military, Ukraine specialist, his brother, guilt by association. It's a remarkable demonstration of how this president operates.
BLITZER: You know, first, Lieutenant Colonel Vindman, he was fired. His brother Eugene was fired. Now, Gordon Sondland was fired.
Jim Acosta, we just got a statement from Adam Schiff. Lieutenant Colonel Vindman did his job. As a soldier in Iraq, he received a Purple Heart, then he displayed bravery and moral courage, he complied with a subpoena and told the truth. He upheld his oath when others would not. Right matters to him and to us.
I guess all of this is going to send a lot of message to current officials in the administration.
ACOSTA: That's right. The other name we have not focused on quite as much is Jennifer Williams, the adviser to Vice President Pence. She left her role last week ahead of schedule.
So, we have multiple officials now who have testified in this impeachment inquiry, testified in a negative way for the president who are being shoved out. And each step of the way, we're receiving from the White House and the administration, you know, different explanations as to what's happening, why they're moving around and so on.
On this occasion today with the case of the Alexander Vindman we're not getting any kind of statement at all from the White House but it does seem, Wolf, that we're seeing a slow motion of Friday night massacre that started last week and will probably continue into the days ahead.
As for Gordon Sondland, we were just hearing from our Kevin Liptak, producer Kevin Liptak, that, you know, the relations between the president and Gordon Sondland had frayed. That's a sharp contrast than the phone conversation that was testified to during the impeachment inquiry, Wolf.
BLITZER: Lulu, button this up, where do you see this heading?
GARCIA-NAVARRO: Well, I mean, one of the big questions is Mark Esper, secretary of defense, and, of course, Mike Pompeo, where do they stand with this? They promised that they weren't going to have people that work for them be retaliated and what we're seeing is retaliation happens. So, I think as this unfold, there's going to be a lot of questions for not only the president but also the people in the administration. BLITZER: I'm sure the Congress, the House Foreign Affairs Committee,
Senate Foreign Relations, they're all going to be looking into this.
VINOGRAD: They will be looking into this. But these agencies have proven they will not cooperate with Congress, right? So, we have the issue again that they won't turn over documents. We don't know what happened into the investigation with Marie Yovanovitch's safety.
So, what's likely is the president will keep firing people who don't blindly follow his orders and, by the way, lie under oath in front of the U.S. Congress and this is likely going to continue nonstop.
BLITZER: All right. We're going to continue to follow all of these breaking developments.
Much more coming on "ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT" which starts right now.
