Return to Transcripts main page

The Situation Room

Jacob Blake's Family Holds March And Rally In Wisconsin; Intel Chief Tells Congress It Will Get No More Briefings On Election Security; More Than 1,200 Students Test Positive At University Of Alabama; Seventeen-Year-Old Accused Of Killing Two People At Kenosha Protests; Trump Campaign Seeks Post-Convention Bounce; Trump To Travel To Kenosha, Wisconsin On Tuesday. Aired 8-9p ET

Aired August 29, 2020 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:00:00]

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Welcome to our viewers here in the United States and around the world. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. This is a special edition of THE SITUATION ROOM.

Three major stories this Saturday night all dealing directly with the health and security of the American people. The family of Jacob Blake, the black man shot seven times by a white police officer leading to peaceful protest on the streets of Kenosha, Wisconsin. Blake's father spoke to CNN today. You'll hear part of that interview just in a few moments. President Trump now says, by the way, he'll probably, quote, probably visit Kenosha.

And tonight here in Washington, D.C. shock in Congress as the director of National Intelligence now says he is cutting off briefings on election security issues to top members of the U.S. Congress. Only written updates will be going forward, even with the top intelligence official on the election -- on election security saying just this month that China, Russia and Iran are now looking to interfere in the U.S. presidential election just 66 days away with some people actually starting to vote earlier.

And all this as coronavirus cases in this country now near 6 million, more than 180,000 lives lost in the United States, nearly one thousand yesterday alone. The reported death toll so far this Saturday is already well over 250.

First, let's go straight to Kenosha, Wisconsin, where people have been marching nearly for nearly a week after the police shot Jacob Blake. He's now paralyzed from the waist down. Sara Sidner is on the scene for us, she had a chance to speak to Blake's father.

So what are you seeing, first of all, Sara, what are you hearing?

SARA SIDNER, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The march is over. It was an absolutely peaceful march. The family was leading that march. Jacob Blake's father was there, Jacob Blake's uncle also there, leading that march to the courthouse here a few blocks. We have heard from Jacob Blake's father. He's talked about a couple of things. One, the shooting of his son, of course, and the fact that his son is paralyzed because of being shot in the back seven times, he believes the officer responsible for that shooting should be charged in the case and charged with attempted murder because he says he did not see, in any way, that his son was imminent danger to the officer, which is the level at which police officers can use their firearm.

He also talked about something else. There is obviously another major case here that happened because a 17-year-old came into town from Illinois, showed up, saying he wanted to protect businesses, had a long gun that he used and ended up shooting and killing two people and injuring another person. His name, the accused shooter, is Kyle Rittenhouse.

And Jacob Blake's father talked about the fact that Rittenhouse was able to walk by not one, not two but at least three different police vehicles with his hands up and his long gun strap across his chest, with people screaming that he had just shot somebody. He was able to go home across the state as opposed to Jacob Blake who was shot seven times in the back with what the family says with certainly no gun on him. And he says he was no threat. And how do this two things jive with each other. He basically said there are two justice systems in America.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JACOB BLAKE SR. JACOB BLAKE'S FATHER: It's obvious, the man who walks down the street and kills two people and blows another man's arm off. Had that been a black, he would been dead right on the spot. He would never have been able to make it back home. He would never have been able to make it home. He made it all the way back to Illinois, Antioch, Illinois.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER: And he is correct, he did make it back to Illinois. He turned himself in, now accuses of six charges including two accounts of intentional homicide and one account of attempted homicide. His attorney has been speaking out as well, the attorney for Rittenhouse accused in those shootings, saying that his client was acting in self- defense.

He also made a comment that upset the family talking about the fact that he says that Rittenhouse will become a heroic figure for what he did protecting businesses. But, indeed, we should mention that one of the charges against Rittenhouse is he is 17 years old, he should never have had a firearm in the first place. He was in illegal possession of that long gun, according to authorities. Wolf?

BLITZER: Yes, lots going on indeed. Sara Sidner on the scene for us in Kenosha, thanks very much.

Joining us now, Marc Morial, the President of the National Urban League, he's also the former Mayor of New Orleans. His new book is entitled the Gumbo Coalition. Check it out. Also with us CNN Law Enforcement Analyst Charles Ramsey. He once led the police to departments in Philadelphia and here in Washington, D.C. as well.

Marc, I'll start with you.

[20:05:01]

I want you to hear what President Trump said this afternoon when he was asked if he would consider traveling to Kenosha. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Probably so. We've had tremendous success, as you know, we were finally able to go ahead from the local authorities to send in the National Guard. We sent in the National Guard. And within a few minutes of the guard, everybody cleared out and it became safe.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: So, Marc, should the president visit Kenosha at this sensitive moment?

MARC MORIAL, PRESIDENT, NATIONAL URBAN LEAGUE: Well, first of all the president didn't mention Mr. Blake once. He didn't mention the fact that we've got a young man paralyzed from the waist down, that we've got another young man who acted as a vigilante sort of fashion, killed and two people injured another.

The president's entire focus would be for a photo-op. What would be better is that the president and Mr. Barr would make a strong unequivocal statement and put the force, the Justice Department squarely behind the investigating and prosecuting this officer and reversing their failure to investigate police misconduct since they've been in office. They basically said, we're not going to investigate police misconduct. We're not going to investigate pattern and practice cases.

So to the great extent, going to Kenosha for the purposes of trumpeting that sent in the National Guard is not the focus that we need now. We need to focus on justice and a focus on healing and a focus on respect for peaceful protesters, not drum beating about sending in the National Guard to, quote, clear people out.

So I don't understand the purpose of a trip, unless the purpose of the trip is to say that there's going to be a strong commitment to ensuring that this case is investigated and that officer is prosecuted and that officer ought to be arrested now.

BLITZER: You know, Chief Ramsey, the Kenosha Police Officers Association is making a number of claims about the shooting. Among them, they say that Blake actually fought with the police officers, put an officer in a headlock and carried a knife that he refused to drop. At least some of their claims had not been confirmed by investigators.

So what do you think of this account? Can you trust this account, when we know the police officers themselves, they were not required -- they apparently didn't have the budget in Kenosha to actually have body cameras?

CHARLES RAMSEY, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, I mean, first of all, we don't have enough information to know if anything that they're saying is true and I don't think they have any more information that we have at this point in time. All I can tell you is that, when I looked at that video, I certainly saw a struggle take place.

Resisting arrest by itself does not justify the use of deadly force. The man walked away from the officers after the struggle, attempted to enter his car. Again, he had his back to the officer. There was no immediate or imminent threat that I could see that would cause an officer to use deadly force.

So that is what it really boils down to, did the officer at the time, he fired his weapon, was he justified in the use of deadly force because he was faced with some kind of immediate or imminent threat to either himself or someone else. That certainly did not appear to be the case.

BLITZER: And we know there is a separate investigation underway by the Wisconsin Justice Department, and they're looking into all of this.

Chief Ramsey, if this happened while you were the Police Commissioner of Philadelphia or let's say the chief here in Washington, D.C. what would you have done after the video was shown to the whole world?

RAMSEY: Well, I mean you have to address it. I mean, I understand that the Wisconsin Attorney General's Office is handling the investigation. But, quite frankly, the two people on the hot seat when you have something like that is the mayor and the police chief. You have to be able to say something.

Maybe you can't divulge too much information but to say absolutely nothing opens the window for like the union to come up with whatever their scenario happens to be and other people that want to add something to the narrative that may or may not have any kind of real evidence or factual information at all. So you need to really get as much information as you can without compromising the investigation.

The other part of that is the young man, after the shooting took place, and I'm not talking about Blake now, I am talking about Rittenhouse, walking down the street. I would be quite upset and we have a huge problem with the officers not stopping. You're responding to a call of shots fired. You've got a man walking down the street with a firearm visibly shown.

BLITZER: An AR-15.

RAMSEY: You've got to stop him, you've got to check him out. You got to check him out.

[20:10:00] BLITZER: Of course.

RAMSEY: I mean, why would you let him to just walk by you?

BLITZER: It didn't make any sense at all.

MORIAL: You know, Wolf, I want to --

BLITZER: Go ahead, Marc.

MORIAL: And I want to make this point. This is a perfect example, and Mr. Blake's father put his finger on this, of the disparities in the justice system, Mr. Blake was treated versus how Mr. Rittenhouse was treated.

And in both instances, what makes cases today so different than cases when I serve in the 90's and the early 2000 is the availability of the videotapes. And what the videotapes do is they give average citizens, people have a chance to use common sense and judgment. And one can see in the place of Mr. Blake, that he was of no threat to the officer at any point in time, and that's the standard necessary for the use of force.

And in the other instance, there is Mr. Rittenhouse walking down the street. He's not being approached, they're not telling him to drop his weapon. These disparities are at the heart of the racial justice conversation. They're at the heart of why there's so much outrage, there's so much protest and there's such a determination about people across the board.

We've got National Basketball Association players, the NBA players, we've got artists. This movement, for racial justice is going to continue, it's going to continue to grow because we don't need the interpretation of investigators to tell us what happened. We can see it. The common sense dictates that this officer should be arrested and prosecuted for attempted murder.

BLITZER: Marc Morial, Chief Ramsey, guys, thank you very, very much. We're going to continue to follow this story, obviously, very, very significant. I appreciate it very much.

MORIAL: Thank you.

RAMSEY: Thank you.

BLITZER: Coming up, only 66 days before the U.S. presidential election. CNN is learning the top intelligence officer here in the United States will no longer, I repeat, no longer brief Congressional Committees on election security and allow the top members to ask any questions. How is Congress responding to this dramatic, significant development? We have new information just ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:15:00]

BLITZER: A totally unexpected announcement just 66 days before the U.S. presidential election, the Office of the Director of National Intelligence says it will no longer give in-person briefings on election security issues to key members of the United States Congress, not the Senate, not to the House. They will only provide written reports, which means lawmakers on the Intelligence Committees, for example, won't be able to ask any specific questions at all.

The announcement comes amid serious warnings that the Russia and China and Iran are actively trying to interfere in the U.S. presidential election.

Our National Security Analyst, Samantha Vinograd, is joining us now. Sam, this come, what, just weeks after the U.S. Intelligence Community did issue a public unclassified warning that these three countries, Russia, China and Iran, were actively trying to interfere in the election. So what do you fear is behind this move today to say, you'll been able to get a written statement from time to time but you won't be able to ask any questions?

SAMANTHA VINOGRAD, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Wolf, this feels like censorship, plain and simple. I've digested all kinds of intelligence. And key assessments and complex threats are typically delivered in both written and oral form. We have seen that with the presidential daily briefing and we've seen that with the worldwide threat assessment as well.

The oral briefing is critical because briefers in that context are able to provide more information and they're able to answer questions. A written briefing alone on a complex threat like election security just doesn't cut it. The DNI is knowingly keeping members of Congress in the dark if he refuses to give oral briefings to lawmakers.

And the only explanation here is that he does not want lawmakers to have the full picture. It feels like he's comfortable keeping lawmakers in the dark. And the only reason I can surmise, Wolf, is that he doesn't want to risk upsetting the president. Remember during a previous election security briefing, a briefer, Shelby Pierson, said something that really upset President Trump, and that appears to be what's behind this.

BLITZER: Because you worked on the National Security Council during the Obama administration, you are privy to the most sensitive information, intelligence information. And based on everything I know, as a matter of principle and as a matter of the law, the U.S. Intelligence Community, the Office of the Director of National Intelligence, they have to brief what's called the gang of eight, the top leaders in the House and the Senate Democrats and Republicans, the chairs of the Intelligence Committees, the ranking members at the same time. They have to do that.

Do you know a time when they decided they weren't going to even share this kind of sensitive information with the so called gang of eight?

VINOGRAD: This is a historic moment for me for all of the wrong reasons. I served under two president, a Republican and a Democrat, and both of those presidents and members of their intelligence community wanted to keep Congress fully and currently informed on key threats to the United States. That's because of presidents that I worked for wanted lawmakers to have information that was credible, critical to protecting themselves and to protecting Americans.

In this case, we have an intelligence community that has consistently played hide and seek with key information. Remember the background here. The previous acting DNI did not schedule the worldwide threat assessment because last year, that briefing upset the president. Now, we have the DNI yet again playing hide and seek with intelligence ostensibly because he doesn't want to risk upsetting the president yet again. This is a historic moment and Americans are less safe because of it.

[20:20:03]

BLITZER: And the president says they're not going to give these briefings because they're afraid of leaks coming from Congress. All right, Samantha Vinograd, thanks so much for joining us, a very important development today as well.

There's more news we're following here in The Situation Room. Coming up, as the U.S. increasingly pins hopes for a coronavirus vaccine being available by the end of this year, there are new worries about a hurdle to vaccinating everyone. We have new details on that when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: While the world waits for a coronavirus vaccine, this pandemic is far, far from over.

[20:25:02]

New headline from Alabama shows how the struggle goes on. Get this, the University of Alabama announcing that more than 1,200 students have now tested positive for COVID-19 at the University of Alabama, Tuscaloosa. That, once again, according to the university.

But get this, a thousand of those cases, again, according to the university, have come just since classes started on August 19th, two weeks ago, a thousand students have come down with coronavirus. And while the world waits, of course, a vaccine could be more complicated than anyone imagined.

CNN's Elizabeth Cohen said that might make a coronavirus vaccine an even tougher sell.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Four weeks ago, Dawn Baker became the first person in the U.S. to get a shot as part of a phase three clinical trial for a coronavirus vaccine. And now, she's back, not just for a visit but for another shot. That's right. The coronavirus vaccine will likely be given in two shots a few weeks apart.

DR. PAUL BRADLEY, MERIDIAN CLINICAL RESEARCH: It's like the boxer going into the ring. You might hit the other guy with one punch and he might go down but two punches is going to be way more effective.

COHEN: And that's a problem for several reasons. First, many Americans aren't very excited about the coronavirus vaccine. According to a recent CNN poll, 40 percent of Americans say they won't get it. Second, for those who do take it, it's a logistical challenge to have hundreds of millions of people come in, not once, but twice.

DR. KELLY MOORE, HEALTH POLICY PROFESSOR, VANDERBILT UNIVERSITY: There is no question that this is going to be the most complicated, largest mass vaccination program in human history. That's going to take a level of effort, a level of sophistication that we've never tried before.

COHEN: People will have to remember to come in the second time. They might have to take time off work twice and possibly experience unpleasant side effects like fever twice. Government health officials are aware that's a big ask.

DR. NELSON MICHAEL, OPERATION WARP SPEED: I think if you give the public health community that (INAUDIBLE), they will find a way, but the task will be very difficult.

COHEN: On the manufacturing end, it's just more complicated to make 660 million doses of a vaccine than 330 million. And it's not just double the vaccine, it's double all the components that go with the vaccine. Two vials with two caps and two stoppers, two syringes with two needles for everybody.

NADA SANDERS, SUPPLY CHAIN PROFESSOR, NORTHEASTERN UNIVERSITY: Doing it twice is going to be daunting. It is going to be absolutely daunting.

COHEN: For Dawn Baker, rolling up her sleeve a second time was about saving lives.

DAWN BAKER, COVID-19 VACCINE CLINICAL TRIAL PATIENT: To me, to stop our older people from passing, our sick people from passing, our young people who have no idea they have health issues, from struggling the way that they have and some of them are passed as well, to me, it's worth it. It really is worth it.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Elizabeth Cohen reporting for us. Thank you, Elizabeth.

Now, Dr. Patrice Harris is joining us right now. She is the immediate past President of the American Medical Association. Dr. Harris, thanks so much for joining us.

I want to discuss the vaccine in a moment. But first, I want to get your reaction to this very disturbing news out of the University of Alabama in Tuscaloosa. Since classes start only two weeks ago, on August 19th, the school has confirmed there have been more than 1,000 students who have tested positive for coronavirus. That's in only two weeks. What's your reaction?

DR. PATRICE HARRIS, FORMER PRESIDENT, AMERICAN MEDICAL ASSOCIATION: Well, Wolf, of course, those numbers are concerning and I'm concerned about the students there. I'm concerned about the community there in Tuscaloosa. You know, there was so much conversation about opening schools and how do we open schools. But there was not enough conversation about how to keep them open. And so I have a lot of questions there. Did those students get tests before or right when they arrived, and what's the plan going forward and what's the plan for personal protective equipment and the other mitigation measures that we know keep us all safe.

So these numbers are concerning. We will absolutely have to track these numbers and, hopefully, schools have plans in place for when these numbers increase.

BLITZER: And what so disturbing and so worrisome is that even if these students are young and healthy and they're asymptomatic or even have just minor symptoms, they can easily transmit this virus to other people, they get into contact with, and we don't know, correct me if I'm wrong, Dr. Harris, the long-term potential ramifications of this disease on those young people.

HARRIS: We don't know that, Wolf. And you're right, there may be a lower risk of having significant complications but there is no such thing as zero risk.

[20:30:00]

And, again, this is a novel coronavirus. And so, we don't know we've seen recent reports of those, they've been called long haulers who are having symptoms over a period of weeks to month.

So, there is a lot we know about this virus. We're learning more every day, but there's a lot that we don't know. And that's why we all have to make sure that we are practicing utmost caution as we move forward, no matter the age of communities or schools or even in our congregate living facilities.

BLITZER: Let's talk -- let's talk about the vaccine issue. There are -- as you heard, fear is that with 40 percent of the American public right now saying they won't take this vaccine, even if the government says it's safe and effective.

How concerned are you, Dr. Harris, that a two-shot regimen, as we just heard Elizabeth Cohen's report, would push that number even higher?

HARRIS: First of all, I do want to thank the woman featured in the story and everyone who is volunteering for these clinical trials. It is so important. It's so important that these clinical trials have a diverse trial population, so we can have the most information as we move forward, once we do develop and are able to distribute a vaccine.

But as you note, we have a huge problem in this country regarding vaccine hesitancy, there's so much misinformation and disinformation out there. Then the need for perhaps two shots, two injections makes it even more complicated.

So, all of these things require that federal agencies and those who are doing these trials, make sure that the public has the utmost confidence and public trust. I know Physicians want to make sure that when we recommend these vaccines, everyone has placed science and evidence above politics.

BLITZER: Absolutely. All right. Dr. Patrice Harris, as usual, thank you so much for joining us. Appreciate it.

HARRIS: Thank you, Wolf.

BLITZER: Coming up, we're learning new details about the night of unrest in Kenosha, Wisconsin that left two people dead and a 17-year- old in custody, how some of it is being skewed by some conservatives. We'll have the latest information when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:35:38]

BLITZER: While protesters have been taking to the streets in Kenosha, Wisconsin today, we're learning some new information about the deadly protests that followed Jacob Blake's shooting almost a week ago, and the 17-year-old now accused of actually shooting three people, killing two of them.

CNN's drew Griffin has a step by step account of the violence.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DREW GRIFFIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It was chaos, protesters, heavily armed vigilantes, Kenosha, Wisconsin on fire and in the midst of it all, an out-of-state 17-year-old, illegally possessing a loaded AR-15 style rifle being chased.

Police call it a double homicide, conservative commentators are calling it self-defense and the 17-year-old shooter, a hero.

MICHELLE MALKIN, CONSERVATIVE COMMENTATOR: Well, I've been very vocal about my support for this young man as have many others who are sick and tired of the anarchy that has gripped our country over the last 75, 80 days.

GRIFFIN: Michelle Malkin and others have led a social media groundswell of support for accused gunman, Kyle Rittenhouse. It has now led to a pop-up nonprofit defense fund asking for donations. And one of the most prominent conservative attorneys coordinating Rittenhouse's defense.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sorry to keep you all waiting.

GRIFFIN: Attorney Lin wood, tweeting from his Twitter account with a cue and on conspiracy theory hashtag on his profile states, "Thanks to all freedom loving Americans who responded to requests for contact information on Kyle Rittenhouse. Help is on the way.

The 17-year-old vigilante is accused of murdering two protesters and wounding a third. Attorney John Pierce, part of the Rittenhouse defense team tells NBC News, "This was classic self-defense and we are going to prove it."

The criminal complaint filed against Rittenhouse details a confusing series of events that indicates the two men Rittenhouse shot and killed, in separate incidents, may have been trying to grab his gun.

The first victim 36-year-old, Joseph Rosenbaum, shot in a car lot. In the complaint, a witness says a first round was fired into the ground and Rosenbaum made a motion that he was trying to grab the barrel of the gun. Shots are fired and Rosenbaum is hit. As Rosenbaum lay dying, Rittenhouse makes a phone call saying I just killed somebody.

Rittenhouse runs away as people chase him. He falls and fires two shots from the second shooting victim, 26-year-old, Anthony Huber, hits him with a skateboard while appearing to reach for Rittenhouse's gun. Huber is shot and killed.

New video to CNN then shows moments after Rittenhouse shoots and injures a third protester, who according to police, appears to be holding a handgun.

RICHIE MCGINNISS, CHIEF VIDEO DIRECTOR, THE DAILY CALLER: I basically, you know, saw him start to run and heard the shots.

GRIFFIN: The witness to how the incidents began is Richie McGinnis, a journalist with the right wing, Daily Caller, who appeared on Fox News and supported the conservative belief that the 17-year-old illegally carrying a semi-automatic rifle was actually there to keep the peace in a town police left out of control.

TUCKER CARLSON, HOST, FOX NEWS CHANNEL: There's a big mob, people have gun, shots are going off, where were the cops?

MCGINNISS: Definitely they're there, but they're obviously not responding in any quick fashion. So, the 17-year-old's, who I interviewed earlier in the night, he actually mentioned that he was there to maintain peace in the absence of police.

[20:40:00]

GRIFFIN: Video footage throughout the night show police were everywhere around Kenosha and responded to the shooting within minutes, only to ignore the actual shooter, who walked right past responding police with his hands up, and the now alleged murder weapon slung across his chest.

Drew Griffin, CNN, Atlanta.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Drew Griffin, thanks for that report.

Coming up, we're only 66 days away from the U.S. presidential election. And both campaigns are now trying to get a boost after their respective conventions. We have new information on their plans, what's coming up next, we'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:45:03]

BLITZER: President Trump certainly hope to deliver a spectacle with a Republican presidential convention this week. And now, his campaign is helping a post-convention bounce in the polls will help close the gap with Democratic nominee, Joe Biden.

Let's discuss with our White House correspondent, Jeremy Diamond. And our Washington correspondent, Jessica Dean.

Jeremy, so what are the expectations at the White House? I think you're speaking to your sources over there. Do they think this fast- moving new cycle, 66 days to go, that the President will stay, first of all, on message and sustain any post-convention momentum?

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think there's certainly a hope within the Trump campaign and inside the White House that the President can indeed take this momentum that he has coming out of the Republican National Convention and move that forward to tighten the race with Joe Biden in a meaningful way.

Most of the President's advisors are under no illusions, at least privately, that the President is facing a deficit against the former Vice President, and he has a lot to do in order to tighten up that deficit. Certainly, they are more optimistic coming out of this republican national convention than they were in the weeks prior.

But, of course, the question, Wolf, about whether or not the President can stay on message is an entirely different one. And nobody in Trump world is under any illusions that the President has trouble doing just that.

Nonetheless, it seems that the President, so far, is intent on continuing to hammer some of the messages that we heard during the Republican National Convention, which is to say try and frame -- try and reframe at least his response to the coronavirus as something that was successful and also really hammer home this law and order message.

Wolf, we have just learned that the President will, in fact, visit Kenosha, Wisconsin on Tuesday, and not to meet, it seems as of now, with the family of Jacob Blake, who was of course shot by the police there, but instead to survey some of the damage that was incurred as a results of the riots that took place there and also to meet with law enforcement.

So, I think you are going to see the president, once again here, mixing official and campaign events in the weeks going forward to try and hammer home that message and, of course, to try and tie Joe Biden to some of the protesting and some of the rioting that we have seen in American cities over the last several months.

BLITZER: Wisconsin, a key battleground state which the President narrowly carried four years ago.

You know, Jessica, you cover the Biden campaign for us. The former vice president announced he would be returning to the campaign trail to stump in key battleground states after Labor Day in September. Normally, this would of course, be a given, but coming during this coronavirus pandemic, how big of a development is this? Because basically in recent weeks, in recent months, he's been stuck there in in Delaware.

JESSICA DEAN, CNN WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Right, Wolf, this is significant. He's really stayed in Delaware and Pennsylvania since COVID, really gripped the country back in March and he's done small events with small businesses and communities in Pennsylvania and Delaware.

But this him traveling to these battleground states, he says he would like to do this after Labor Day, he mentioned Arizona, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, and Minnesota as states that he would like to visit.

But you can make expect to see that this will be done very much like what we've seen in Pennsylvania and Delaware previously. They've always taken great pains to make sure that these events are socially distanced, that all the protocols are followed, people are wearing masks, that they're six feet apart. And we would expect to see that out on the campaign trail, as well.

Wolf, and Vice President Biden saying himself, that he does not anticipate doing any sort of rallies, that he would only travel if he can follow the rules of each state and make sure that this is done safely.

Interesting to note, though, the only other time we saw him travel outside of that Pennsylvania-Delaware region is when he went to Texas to meet with George Floyd's family in the aftermath of his killing. And he said last week that he would consider going to Wisconsin if he could do so in a way that was safe for everyone, and that made a difference.

But, Wolf, as of right now, no specifics on that, no firm plans on that.

BLITZER: Jeremy, let's get back to the headline. You just reported that the President has flatly decided that he will visit Kenosha on Tuesday. This potentially is a very significant development indeed.

Earlier today, he said probably he might be doing it, but now it's already a hard yes, right?

Yeah, that's right. The White House Deputy Press Secretary, Judd Deere, issued a statement as Air Force One landed at Joint Base Andrews just a few moments ago, the president, earlier in the day, had suggested that this was a possibility. Now, the White House confirming that the President will indeed do this.

And you have to wonder beyond, of course, the campaign message that the President is going to try and hammer here by trying to tie the Democrats to some of the violence that we have seen in those streets in Kenosha, Wisconsin, after, of course, many hours of peaceful protests in that city. That beyond that, the President is entering here a very combustible situation and is likely to really only inflame tensions. This is not a president who has been the consoler in chief that many presidents have tried to be in times of division and in times of national tragedy.

Instead, this is a president who has chosen, time and again, to fan the flames of division and really to stoke those divisions for his political gain.

[20:50:04]

And so you have to wonder, the president entering a situation like this, what is he thinking and what are his advisors thinking about some of the fallout that could come here, and particularly if he could only make -- if he might make the situation worse there in terms of the protests and in terms of some of the rioting that we have also seen in that city.

BLITZER: We saw the president walking down the stairs over there at the Joint Base Andrews getting off of Air Force One. He got into the presidential limousine; they call it the beast. They're driving to the White House, Jeremy, because the South Lawn, where they have the convention, the rally and all of that, it's still not capable of allowing Marine One to land there, is that right?

DIAMOND: Yes, that's right, Wolf. We've seen the president because, of course, he used the South Lawn for this political convention over this entire week, they were not able to use the South Lawn, we're typically you see, Marine One actually landing there.

And again, this is kind of, you know, going back to the president using the South Lawn of the White House for this political convention, this is how the president is campaigning in times of a pandemic. You have seen Joe Biden, try and kind of do these virtual events, try and do socially distance responsible events. The President is starting to beef up his campaign travel.

But while he has not been able to do some of those campaign rallies, we have seen instead, the president use all of the trappings of the presidency, whether it is campaigning from the Rose Garden, or from the South Lawn of the White House, or really using official events travel outside of the country in order to hammer his rival Joe Biden. That is the strategy that we are seeing the president employ in these times. And I do think again, you're going to see that amplified and continue in the weeks ahead.

BLITZER: All right. Jeremy Diamond, Jessica Dean, guys, thank you very much.

Let's get some analysis to discuss the state of the presidential contest. Joining us now, Ron Brownstein, CNN senior political analyst, senior editor over at the Atlantic as well.

What about the news we just heard from Jeremy, Ron? The President will actually be traveling to Kenosha, Wisconsin on Tuesday. Is that a good decision? RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, it's interesting because it tells you two things. It reaffirms the message of the convention that they are all in on the argument that Joe Biden, you'll be less safe and Joe Biden's America as their path back in the election.

It felt like the only thing that his heart was in, in that kind of interminable Castro-esque speech he gave Thursday night was that argument, but it also to me shows the challenge in trying to make that the center of the campaign because the convention really made two interlock arguments, you know, one, as I said, is that you will be less safe in Joe Biden's America and the other one is that the coronavirus is solved, you know, they talked about it in the past tense. They had a giant event on the White House lawn without masks or social distancing.

In effect, the President is saying to people, you should be more concerned about something you're experiencing for the most part on your television than you are something that you are experiencing in real life. And I -- and that's a hard thing to do.

And the fact that he's going to Kenosha just shows how much effort it takes to kind of keep the focus on that. I've just had one other point. It is not a given that even if you believe that disorder in cities is a problem that you believe the President Trump's iron fist is the solution.

I think a big difference from the 60s is that when Richard Nixon promised law and order, most suburbanites thought he could deliver it. But if you look at polls, Wolf, there are a lot of people who think that President Trump's approach makes things worse, potentially makes them more vulnerable to violence, because he's so racially divisive, so belligerent. And as Jeremy said, you know, he tends to put out these fires with gasoline.

So, again, not clear he can shift the focus to this on any sustained basis. And even if he does, not clear that he wins the argument, certainly by not any convincing margin.

So, Ron, the conventions are now over in a normal election cycle campaigns look to capitalize on a post-convention bounce. Do you anticipate that the President is going to get a significant bounce out of what happened here in Washington over the past four days?

BROWNSTEIN: I would think he's going to get something. I mean, he's been polling at 41, 42, sometimes 40, against Joe Biden, and in our deeply polarized era, that is a very low number. So, it's hard to believe that four nights of kind of reminding Republicans why they don't like Democrats and painting him in a very positive light would not have some effect.

But the long-term trend, Wolf, is precisely because we are so dug in the bounces are much smaller than they used to be. They were bigger in the 60s and 70s than they were in the 80s and 90s, and those were bigger than they've been in the last 20 years. And I think you saw that in the viewership, you know, I mean, there were a lot of voters who just did not tune in because they kind of have made up their mind about Trump.

To me, the key question, the key challenge he faces is that you can go back in the history of polling, there are very few examples, maybe Harry Truman is the only one in 1948, a candidate from either party who was trailing in the polling immediately after their own convention and still won the popular vote.

Like I said, I don't know if anybody has done that since Truman. And I think if Trump is still trailing in the polling, immediately after this convention, it would say he is highly unlikely to win the popular vote, doesn't mean he can't win the Electoral College, but it does mean he's in the same position of having to pull in inside straight for a second election in a row.

[20:55:08]

So, I would be looking for that, not only the margin, but whether he's still behind after his own convention. That's often a high point for candidates.

BLITZER: Yes, good point, indeed. Ron Brownstein, as usual, thank you very, very much. This note to our viewers, disinformation lies, CNN Films presents "After Truth," a film that looks at how fake news is used as a weapon against democracy "After Truth," later tonight after THE SITUATION ROOM 10:00 p.m. Eastern only here on CNN. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)