Return to Transcripts main page

The Situation Room

Interview with Rep. Hakeem Jeffries (D-NY); Interview with Former U.S. National Security Adviser John Bolton; Trump Under Fire; Leader of Far-Right Group Proud Boys Also Leads Grassroots Group Latinos for Trump; U.S. Deaths Top 207,000 as Cases Surpass 7.2 Million, CDC Projects Up to Another 25,000 Deaths by October 24; Chaotic Trump-Biden Debate Sparks Global Criticism. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired October 01, 2020 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[18:00:17]

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: We want to welcome our viewers here in the United States and around the world. I'm Wolf Blitzer in THE SITUATION ROOM.

President Trump is escalating his defiance of democratic norms on multiple fronts two days after his off-the-rails debate performance and just 33 days before the election. The White House is now refusing to clearly and directly say he denounces white supremacy, while falsely claiming he has done that, when he hasn't.

Also, tonight, the president is spreading more baseless claims about ballot fraud, trying to ram up -- ramp up fear and doubt, as early voting is under way in so many parts of the country.

And we have late-breaking news right now. The Trump campaign now is launching an attack on the nonpartisan Presidential Debates Commission, warning, Mr. Trump doesn't want any changes that are expected to be announced within the next 48 hours aimed at bringing order to his upcoming two debates with Joe Biden.

All of this as more than half of the country now seeing a rise in new coronavirus cases, the pandemic death toll topping 207,000. And the CDC is now forecasting another 25,000 deaths in a little over three weeks.

In a moment, I will speak to CNN's Kaitlan Collins, who questioned the White House press secretary about the president's refusal to denounce white supremacy.

But, first, let's go to CNN's Ryan Nobles. He's covering the White House for us today.

Ryan, two days after the first Trump-Biden debate, it appears the president's disturbing comments about white supremacy still stand.

RYAN NOBLES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's right, Wolf. With each passing American election, voters of color are playing a

more important role. But, despite that fact, with voters across the country already casting ballots in this election, the president of the United States is being forced to officially declare his thoughts on white supremacy.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NOBLES (voice-over): Tonight, despite multiple opportunities to specifically condemn white supremacist groups, the president and his administration continue to dance around the question.

QUESTION: Can you right now denounce white supremacy and the groups that espouse it?

KAYLEIGH MCENANY, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: I just did. The President has denounced...

QUESTION: You read a bunch of quotes from the past.

MCENANY: ... white supremacy, the KKK, and hate groups in all forms.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: If someone denounced you, you probably wouldn't put it on a T-shirt make badges of it, right?

MCENANY: The president did denounce them. He was asked, will you tell them to stand down? He said sure, and went on to stand...

COLLINS: He said, stand by, which seems like an instruction.

MCENANY: He said, stand back, and then just yesterday, when he was asked, he said specifically, stand down.

NOBLES: White House Press Secretary Kayleigh McEnany using old quotes from the president to respond to the direct question, and then refusing to acknowledge the outright embrace of the president by organizations like the Proud Boys.

MCENANY: He didn't know who the Proud Boys were. First time I heard of them was in the debate. But the media continues to put these names into circulation and give them a lot of public attention.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Who would you like me to condemn?

JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: The Proud Boys.

(CROSSTALK)

TRUMP: Proud Boys, stand back and stand by.

NOBLES: But leading Republicans are also taking issue with what the president said.

SEN. TIM SCOTT (R-SC): I think he misspoke. I think he should correct it. If he doesn't correct it, I guess he didn't misspeak.

SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY): He said it was unacceptable not to condemn white supremacists. And so I do so in the strongest possible way.

SEN. JOHN BARRASSO (R-WY): I certainly condemn what we have been seeing in terms of white supremacy, in terms of racism.

NOBLES: And as early voting surges across the country, Trump continues to make baseless claims about fraud in the electoral process.

TRUMP: This is crazy, what's going on. This is crazy.

NOBLES: His rhetoric only part of what is raising concerns. The Trump campaign is preparing to send thousands of volunteers to polling locations across the country.

TRUMP: I'm urging my supporters to go into the polls and watch very carefully.

NOBLES: Critics are accusing the Trump team of employing an intimidation tactic, despite the FBI's clear assessment that there's no evidence of widespread voter fraud.

CHRISTOPHER WRAY, FBI DIRECTOR: We have not seen, historically, any kind of coordinated national voter fraud effort in a major election.

NOBLES: Meanwhile, the president continues to believe that he won the debate.

TRUMP: You know Biden lost badly when his supporters are saying he should cancel the rest of the debates.

NOBLES: This despite real concern from his own team that his rocky performance could hurt him with persuadable voters. The Debate Commission now considering tightening up its rules to prevent a repeat of Tuesday's fiery affair that lacked substance.

BIDEN: I just hope there is a way in which the debate commission can control the ability of us to answer the question without interruptions.

NOBLES: A move that the president says he's opposed to, tweeting: "Why would I allow the Debate Commission to change the world for the second and third debates, when I easily won last time?"

(END VIDEOTAPE)

[18:05:05]

NOBLES: And one of the ideas potentially being floated to kind of fix this problem with the debates would allow the commission to mute one of the candidates if they go over their allotted time in answering a question.

Now, this isn't something they have decided yet, just something being discussed.

Joe Biden asked about that just a few minutes ago, and he responded by saying he's in favor of anything that will allow him to fully answer the questions of those voters that will be asking questions in the next debate.

Meanwhile, the Trump campaign is specifically opposed to any changes to the commission and the way these debates are conducted, and they attacked the commission for even suggesting it.

Wolf, it's pretty clear that the Trump campaign at this point has not said whether or not the president will be at the next debate if the commission does, in fact, change those rules -- Wolf.

BLITZER: We will see how this unfolds.

Ryan Nobles reporting, thanks very much.

Let's bring in our White House correspondent, Kaitlan Collins.

Kaitlan, I want our viewers to hear this exchange you had today with the White House press secretary, Kayleigh McEnany. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: The Proud Boys, or people who consider them to be members of this group, give voice to these misogynistic, Islamophobic, anti- Semitic, anti-immigrant views.

They're a despicable group by pretty much anyone's standard.

So when the president was asked about them, and you say he denounced them. That's what you're insisting that he did on the debate stage the other night. If that's the case, then why are they celebrating what the president said on the debate stage in front of millions of people?

MCENANY: Well, I don't speak for that group, so I'm not sure why you're asking me why they're saying a certain thing.

COLLINS: But I'm saying, if someone denounced you, you probably wouldn't put it on a T-shirt and makes badges of it, right?

MCENANY: The president did denounce them. He was asked, will you tell them to stand down? He said, sure, and went on to stand...

COLLINS: He said to stand by, which seems like an instruction.

MCENANY: He said, stand back. And then just yesterday, when he was asked, he said specifically stand down, a synonym with stand back. And the president said sure when asked by the moderator whether they should stand down. So again...

COLLINS: No, he said...

MCENANY: So, again, another -- it's really interesting, too, to see that the media seems to be the only one putting the names of these groups into headlines, into media reporting. He didn't know who the Proud Boys were. The first time I heard of them was in the debate.

But the media continues to put these names into circulation and give them a lot of public attention.

Justin.

COLLINS: The president was given about 12 hours -- more than that -- since from the debate from when he was asked to clarify yesterday. And he didn't come out and clarify yesterday.

Instead, he did what you did when John asked you to unambiguously denounce these groups. You just pointed to past things that you've said. You can't -- I just don't understand why you knew you were going to get these questions, and you don't have a statement ready to just say, We do unambiguously denounce these groups...

MCENANY: Kaitlan, you know what is...

COLLINS: ... and they are not our supporters that we welcome.

MCENANY: Do you know what is -- do you know why people have lost trust in the media? There was a reporter from your network yesterday -- your network -- and in a tweet said, quote, The President...

COLLINS: I'm asking you a question.

MCENANY: I'm answering your question.

COLLINS: I don't even know what you're going to bring up, but that has nothing to do with what I'm asking you right now.

MCENANY: I sat here -- I sat here when you lobbed your partisan attack question, so you will allow me to give an answer.

The president and someone from your network said yesterday, in a tweet, The president dodged a question about white supremacy. That was a tweet from a CNN reporter.

The president specifically, verbatim, was asked yesterday, White supremacy, do you denounce them? To which he responded, "I have always denounced any form of that."

Those are the facts. And, CNN, I know that truth is of no moment to your network, but those are the facts. And that's shameful...

(CROSSTALK)

MCENANY: ... your reporting.

COLLINS: They're not the facts. Why are Republicans -- Republicans are calling on the president to be more forceful.

MCENANY: Justin.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BLITZER: All right, Kaitlan, now you have been covering the president now for a few years.

Why does he, and the White House, for that matter, refuse to explicitly denounce white supremacy every time they're given a very simple and easy chance, a layup, if you will, to do so?

COLLINS: It's probably the easiest question they could get, Wolf.

I think reporters would refer to it as a softball question, to simply answer that question with a statement, because, obviously, it's not clear what the president has said. That's why he's still being faced with questions about it. So are his staff and so Republicans posing those questions to the president.

And McEnany referred to it there as a partisan attack to ask them to unambiguously denounce these groups, something that it wasn't just coming from me. Two other reporters in the room also prompted that question to the press secretary today, of course, following up with what the president himself has said on Tuesday and yesterday, when he was asked about it.

But, Wolf, it's a pattern in this White House where repeatedly the president has said things about white supremacist groups that either support him or that he has not clearly disavowed, or when he's made these statements that are perfunctory, they come from a teleprompter, they're written by other aides, and then later backed off of them, as he did with his Charlottesville remarks, where he later told people he regretted coming back to the White House and giving that speech, where he said he denounced the KKK and neo-Nazi groups, because he felt forced into doing so.

So, when he has made the remarks that the White House's touting, Wolf, often, sources say it's a reluctant performance on behalf of the president.

BLITZER: It's not just as usual critics who are leveling the complaints.

Republican leaders, including Senator Tim Scott, the Republican majority leader, Mitch McConnell, they have all taken issue with how the president has handled this issue. Isn't that right?

[18:10:08]

COLLINS: Yes.

And, Wolf, if you cover this White House or cover Capitol Hill, you know Republicans are never rushing to criticize the president. They know how popular he is in the within the party. They often do not want to comment on controversial things that he has said.

But you are even seeing not just Tim Scott, the only black Republican in the Senate here, say that the president should clarify his statement, but also the Senate majority leader, Mitch McConnell, John Thune, Senator Barrasso. Several other Republicans as well are saying that the president should be clear when he uses his words, and they do not think he is being clear now as, of course, he's not.

BLITZER: All right, Kaitlan, excellent work, as usual. Thank you very much.

President Trump's former National Security Adviser John Bolton is joining us right now. He is the author of a new and bestselling book entitled "The Room Where It Happened: A White House Memoir."

There, you see the book cover.

Ambassador Bolton, thank you so much for joining us.

You worked with him on a daily basis for a long time. You saw him every single day? Why can't the president simply say that he condemns white supremacist groups, simply say, I condemn white supremacy, white supremacist groups? Why is that so hard for him?

JOHN BOLTON, FORMER U.S. NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: Because he doesn't see it as being in his political interests.

He is a pass master at saying many things about the same subject. So, he can say to the Proud Boys, stand back and stand by. And, by the way, people should listen to how he used that line in the debate. He had practiced it. He had thought about it. He knew exactly what he was saying.

And he allows that to sink in. And then, a short time later, he sort of contradicts it.

And, by Friday, he may well condemn white supremacy unequivocally. But he's getting the benefit out of the ambiguity during the interim, and he knows it. And he does this all the time.

BLITZER: What did he mean when he said to the -- to this group the Proud Boys, what did he mean when he said, stand back and stand by?

BOLTON: I took that to mean, just back off for now, but, to put it a different way, keep your powder dry. I thought it was a real threat. And I think he knew exactly what he meant.

BLITZER: Yes, that's what I suspected. And that's what I feared as well.

In case the election, for example, doesn't turn in his direction, he wants them to stand back for now, but stand by in case he needs them, then, Is that what you're hearing?

BOLTON: That's what I heard him to say.

And I believe, again, if you listen to the way he said that line in the debate, it was practiced and thought out in advance.

BLITZER: So, you worked in the White House with the president as the national security adviser.

Why do you think white supremacists and these far right groups see the president's words as a rallying cry? They got T-shirts now with those words, "Stand back and stand by."

BOLTON: Because I think that's what he intended.

People have asked what kind of campaign he's running. And he is running a 1968 campaign. It's not Richard Nixon's campaign. It's George Wallace's campaign. And I think he's doing it very deliberately.

As I say, there are enough caveats before and after he uses the key phrases, so that his surrogates can say, oh, well, he denounced white supremacy here or there. But you don't hear it in the clear and unequivocal way that Republican leaders in Congress are doing it.

I think this is going to require a lot more courage by elected Republican leaders on this question, on the question of election fraud between now and the election.

BLITZER: And you speak as a Republican for a long, long time.

The FBI director, Christopher Wray, handpicked by the president, he testified that white supremacist violence represents the largest domestic terror threat right now.

Is the president jeopardizing Americans' national security by ignoring this?

BOLTON: Well, I think what he's doing is creating conditions where extremism is likely on both sides.

And he's using the turmoil that's being created as an excuse for the chaos that may follow in his mind, the chaos that may follow after the election.

So, in a way, the semi-hysterical and hysterical reaction of Trump opponents gives Trump the ability to stir up trouble even more. I mean, one thing that everybody ought to do, every responsible American, is just take a deep breath here.

We have strong institutions. We have strong electoral systems at the state level. We can get through a close and contested election. But we need to do it clearly thinking about the consequences if we lose control.

And I'm worried that Trump sees what may be his only road to reelection in keeping things in a state of chaos. That's what he enjoys most.

BLITZER: When it comes to the election, Ambassador, President Trump is predicting massive fraud. He's telling his supporters to go watch the polls. He's refusing to commit to a peaceful transfer of power.

[18:15:02] How badly are these constant attacks are eroding our basic democratic principles? We have seen this unfold in autocratic regimes in other countries that have moved from democracy to autocracy. But it's unbelievable that we're seeing this sort of unfolding right now.

How worried are you?

BOLTON: Well, I'm worried not only that -- of what Trump is doing in this election, but what his opponents may do in response before November 3 and what this does overall to civic society in the United States.

I think it's very important, especially for Trump's critics -- and I consider myself one -- to be very specific and factual in what they say, because, when the case is overstated against Trump, it helps him. And I don't think that's in anybody's interests.

But what he has advocated, for example, and mail in your ballot, then go to the polling place and try and vote again, or have people go to the polls to watch, when every state that I'm aware of has clear procedures for poll watchers from both parties, all of these things are intended to get people worried and to get them to do things that will make it very difficult for state and local officials to carry out their duties.

That's why we need leaders, Republican governors, Republican officeholders, to be telling people, of course we should be vigilant against fraud.

Nobody should think there's no fraud in voting in this country. Let's be clear. But there are procedures to handle it. We have been through it before. We know what to do. And people should keep their eye on the ball, which is making sure that the votes are fairly counted, not trying to intimidate people or cause them to be so nervous that they overreact.

BLITZER: Do you see the president, Ambassador, as a national security threat?

BOLTON: Well, I think the way he does not make national security policy is the real threat.

I think he doesn't have a philosophy. He's not a conservative, by any stretch of the imagination. He doesn't have a grand strategy. He doesn't really make policy. I have described his approach, the way the White House works is like working inside a pinball machine.

And I think he's now doing to the electoral system what he's done over four years to decision-making and national security. That is a danger to the country. That, there's no doubt of.

BLITZER: So, how much of a danger to the country is he?

BOLTON: Well, I think, after one term -- and I hope he is a one-term president -- the damage can be repaired.

But I'm very worried, if he gets a second term, a lot of that damage could be irreparable.

BLITZER: Tuesday's presidential debate was supposed to inform the voters. But, instead, what we all saw was a total embarrassment.

Was the bullying, was the interrupting, the -- by the president, I should point out -- the same person you worked with in the Oval Office and the West Wing of the White House on a daily basis?

Is that how he conducts himself? What we all publicly Tuesday night, is that how he conducts himself privately in the White House?

BOLTON: Yes, I really wasn't surprised by it. To me, it was just another day in the office.

And he does it deliberately. He knows exactly what he's doing. And he just -- he -- it's not that he can't control himself. He won't control himself, because he's so determined, in this case, to blow up the debate process.

I'm not a fan of these debates to begin with, frankly. And if we didn't have any more of those kinds of demonstrations in this election, I think we'd be better off for it.

I can tell you, I have been doing interviews internationally all this week for my book and other things. People around the world can't believe what they saw on Tuesday night.

BLITZER: I know. I have been getting a lot of e-mails and messages from friends all over the world, saying, what is happening here in the United States of America?

You're right. They can't believe what's going on.

I know you don't want President Trump to be reelected. But are you ready to say you're going to be voting for Joe Biden?

BOLTON: No, I'm not going to vote for Vice President Biden. I have known him for many years. I respect him as a person. But I don't agree with him philosophically.

I'm going to write in the name of somebody else. I haven't decided who. I have been leaning lately toward Ronald Reagan, just as an expression of the kind of president the Republican Party should nominate.

BLITZER: Before I let you go, Ambassador, I want to know if you have some reaction, today's ruling that the Justice Department's lawsuit against you over the publication of your book can go forward?

You want to give us your thoughts on that?

BOLTON: Well, I haven't even read the opinion fully myself.

I must say, my lawyers, Chuck Cooper and I are studying it closely. We're very clear here that no confidential information, no classified information has been revealed. I did follow the process. The book was cleared. And we're going to continue hopefully getting discovery and go on from there.

[18:20:05]

BLITZER: Ambassador John Bolton, the president's former national security adviser, thanks so much for joining us.

Let me remind our viewers, the book is entitled "The Room Where It Happened." There you see the book cover. It's a White House memoir.

Ambassador Bolton, thank you so much for joining us. Stay safe out there.

BOLTON: Thanks for having me.

BLITZER: Just ahead, we're getting breaking news on the far right group President Trump urged to stand back and stand by. We will have that for you.

And we will also get reaction from Democratic Congressman -- there you see him -- Hakeem Jeffries. He's got strong views on what's unfolding here in the United States.

We will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: We're getting breaking news on that far right group President Trump urged to stand back and stand by during Tuesday's debate.

[18:25:03]

It turns out that the leader of the Proud Boys also leads a grassroots group called Latinos For Trump.

We're joined now by the chairman of the House Democratic Caucus, Congressman Hakeem Jeffries of New York.

Congressman, thanks so much for joining us.

After first refusing to denounce the Proud Boys during that debate. the president then claimed he had no idea who this group was. What's your response to learning now of this new connection?

A leader of the Proud Boys also leads a grassroots pro-Trump group, this individual, Enrique Tarrio, telling CNN that there are two Latinos for Trump movements, one run by the campaign, the other a grassroots movement started in 2016. He's with the grassroots movement.

What's your reaction?

REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES (D-NY): Well, it's no surprise.

We're in the midst of a deadly pandemic. We have had so much pain and suffering and death that has been visited upon the American people. More than 200,000 Americans have died. Over 100,000 small businesses have permanently closed, more than seven million Americans have been infected by the coronavirus.

Of course, tens of millions of Americans remain unemployed. And the president's response has been an unmitigated disaster. And, as a result of that, he wants to change the subject.

And, of course, he decides to continue to peddle in bigotry and behave like a racial arsonist. We have seen this time and time again. Of course, for five years, he perpetrated the racist lie that Barack Obama was not born in the United States of America. He tried to delegitimize our nation's first black president.

And he's continued to go down this road time and time again over the last four years. Now he feels a particular urgency to do that, which is why he's embracing groups like the Proud Boys, because he has no real record to run on.

He's failed the American people in the context of both the public health crisis and the economic crisis connected to COVID-19.

BLITZER: You know, Congressman, for four years, we have been asking why President Trump won't simply denounce white supremacy.

In fact, back in 2017, you and I had a conversation about this, and you told me President Trump had a tendency, in your words, to be a racial arsonist, your words, fanning the flames of hatred.

Do you still feel the same way today?

JEFFRIES: Without question.

And it's a hard thing to have to say about any president of the United States of America, particularly at a moment of reckoning, when we're trying to deal with the systemic racism that has been in the soil of this country for 401 years.

We have come a long way. We still have a long way to go. But the facts are the facts.

As the president himself has said, it is what it is in terms of the president's behavior. And it was on full display the other night. It's clear, not every American who voted for Donald Trump is a racist, but I am clear that every racist in America likely voted for Donald Trump.

And the reality is, as a result of that fact, Donald Trump sees this group of Americans as part of his base. And he apparently wants to energize them right now.

BLITZER: The White House press secretary, Kayleigh McEnany, today said the president has condemned racism and white supremacy, in her words, more than any president in modern history.

What do you say to that?

JEFFRIES: I mean, Donald Trump himself has peddled more than 20,000 lies as president of the United States of America, and those who work for him continue to add to that number. That's a statement that has no basis in reality. Again, they just want

to change the topic.

Under the leadership of Speaker Pelosi, we're trying to arrive in an agreement to meaningfully address the needs of the American people, who are suffering in the context of this pandemic.

And Donald Trump continues to try to ignore the reality of the pain and suffering and death that has been experienced by the American people. And, as opposed to engaging in this type of racial theatrics, why don't they just come to the negotiating table in good faith and help us meet the needs of the American people, who continue to experience so much hardship right now?

BLITZER: And the U.S. Labor Department today announced that 837,000 Americans filed for first-time unemployment benefits just last week. In one week, 837,000 Americans had to formally, officially -- they're unemployed -- file for first-time unemployment benefits.

Following the presidential debate, Congressman, you said the president continues to take a blowtorch to our democracy.

How concerned are you about the president's repeated attempts to sow doubt in the overall electoral process, including his false claims about voter fraud, his calls for his supporters to actually go to the polls and watch the polls.

[18:30:09]

JEFFRIES: He continues to behave as though he is Vladimir Putin's best asset. When you think about Putin's attack on our democracy, it was designed to undermine the faith and confidence and the integrity of the principle of a government by the people and for the people.

And instead of trying to lift up that principle and the notion of the peaceful transition of power from one president to the next, whether it's a Democrat to a Republican or a Republican to a Democrat, he is taking a blow torch to our democracy as part of an effort to sow the seeds of doubt.

And he's doing more damage to our democracy than I think Vladimir Putin could have thought about in his wildest imagination. Never, I think, envisioned in American president, trying to undermine the full faith and confidence of the American people in our system of governance.

BLITZER: Congressman Hakeem Jeffries of New York, thank you so much for joining us. We'll stay in close touch. I appreciate it.

JEFFRIES: Thank you, Wolf.

BLITZER: Just ahead, fears that President Trump's upcoming rallies in Wisconsin this weekend could be super-spreaders as the state is now seeing record deaths from the coronavirus. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [18:35:00]

BLITZER: We're getting more evidence by the hour that the coronavirus pandemic is taking another very dangerous turn as it already has killed more than 207,000 Americans. CNN's Nick Watt has our report.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NICK WATT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wisconsin is in trouble. Average case counts climbed to a stunning 300 percent just the past month. Look at that line.

DR. ASHISH JHA, DEAN, BROWN UNIVERSITY SCHOOL OF PUBLIC HEALTH: This is not the time to be holding a rally in Wisconsin.

WATT: The president had planned two of his notoriously unmasked MAGA rallies this weekend in Wisconsin. The one in La Crosse was just moved to Jamesville.

MAYOR TIM KABAT (D-WI), LA CROSSE: We are in a very severe situation with COVID.

WATT: But police issue, not COVID-related, according to the Trump campaign. The rally in Green Bay going ahead, political imperatives apparently outweigh public safety.

DR. PAUL CASEY, MEDICAL DIRECTOR, EMERGENCY DEPARTMENT AT BELLIN HOSPITAL: Currently one hospital out of the four in Green Bay has more patients than the entire city had at our peak in April.

WATT: More than half of states are right now heading in the wrong direction, average new case counts climbing, New York now seeing spikes in at least 20 zip codes, most in New York City.

GOV. ANDREW CUOMO (D-NY): There are increases primarily in Brooklyn, very clustered today can become community spread tomorrow.

WATT: Reopening the city schools goes on for now but kids do spread this virus among themselves, so says a large new study out of India, which found young and middle-aged adults are the primary source of community spread.

Up in Boston, after a rise in new cases, many among college students, they just pumped the brakes on reopening some businesses and won't allow bigger gatherings.

MAYOR MARTY WALSH (D-MA), BOSTON: You want to be treated as adults? Well then act at it.

WATT: Meanwhile, AstraZeneca's vaccine trials still on hold here in the U.S. paused after an illness of a volunteer in the U.K. The FDA can't or won't explain why.

DR. STEPHEN HAHN, FDA COMMISSIONER: I can't speak to confidential commercial information. WATT: Moderna says it probably won't have enough data of its trials to file for emergency use authorization until late November, so after the election. The CEO says their vaccine likely won't be widely available until the spring, despite what the president claims.

TRUMP: The vaccine in record times is going to be very, very soon, and before the end of the year, maybe sooner than that.

WATT: New research posted online concludes that this man, our president --

TRUMP: It's like a miracle. And it will disappear.

Hydroxychloroquine, try it.

We're rounding the corner of the pandemic.

WATT: This man was likely the largest driver of the COVID-19 misinformation infodemic.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WATT: Now, Pfizer is also involved in developing a potential vaccine, and its CEO has written a letter to employees in which he says that political rhetoric is undercutting public confidence. He also said that the debate this week between President Trump and Joe Biden made things worse. He said he was disappointed to see the prevention of this disease being discussed in political rather than scientific terms. He says that Pfizer will never succumb to political pressure. And he says, you know, the world will be safer if we stop talking about vaccine delivery in political terms. Wolf?

BLITZER: Nick Watt reporting for us. And, Nick, thank you very much.

Let's bring in Dr. Richard Besser, the former Acting Director for the Centers of Disease Control and Prevention. Dr. Besser, thanks so much for joining us.

Should Americans see this decision from the CEO of Pfizer as a promising sign that science, not politics, is driving the vaccine development process?

[18:40:03]

DR. RICHARD BESSER, FORMER ACTING DIRECTOR FOR THE CENTERS OF DISEASE CONTROL AND PREVENTION: Well, we're hearing a lot of the right messages from the heads of the companies that are developing vaccines, and that's a good thing. But when push comes to shove, we're going to need to count on the FDA to do what they do and assess the studies that come in.

Each of those companies has a vested interest in a vaccine getting approved. And that's why we have an independent authority that uses an independent scientific body to review the data, review the evidence to say whether a vaccine should go forward and get approved. Without that, the trust that the process is intact, you can have a vaccine and people aren't going to want to get vaccinated, and that would be a tragedy.

BLITZER: It would, indeed. We've also just seen the results of a small study that found coronavirus antibodies decline, decline about three months after a person is infected. What should those who have recovered from this virus take away from this finding?

BESSER: Yes. I wouldn't over-interpret that. Because what it says is if you're going to donate blood or plasma to help people with potential treatments, the antibody treatments, you need to do it pretty quickly.

But in terms of your protection, it doesn't answer the question whether you still have protection, because there are cells in your body that can rev up and produce more antibody when they're supposed to a virus again. And scientist are looking to see, does the decline in antibody mean that you're further at risk or there are other systems in your body that keep you protected?

So, I wouldn't over-interpret it except in terms of donating for antibodies.

BLITZER: It's clearly still so much we have to learn about, this coronavirus.

You heard our Nick Watt, Dr. Besser report, that the study -- there's the study that also found that the president is the single largest driver of misinformation about this virus. How much of an impact does the false information coming from the leader of this country have on the response to this pandemic?

BESSER: Well, it's absolutely huge. You know, when you have public health telling people to wear masks, keep six feet apart, wash your hands, do these measures to protect yourselves and those around you and you hear the message coming out of the White House saying the opposite, that basically there's nothing to worry about, that's where you get into a situation that we have today, where some people are following the advice and wearing a mask turns out to be a political statement.

And that's why we have such a disastrous response to the pandemic and people dying by the thousands when those deaths could have been prevented.

BLITZER: Yes. And for those who think it's over with, this coronavirus pandemic, Johns Hopkins University reported today that 42,812 Americans got the virus, came down with a confirmation of the virus yesterday and 946 Americans, sadly, died yesterday from this coronavirus, all in one day.

Dr. Besser, thanks so much for joining us.

BESSER: Thank you very much, Wolf. BLITZER: Just ahead, I'll speak with the former FBI deputy director, Andrew McCabe, about the president's refusal to directly denounce white supremacy, even as the FBI is warning about a clear threat. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:47:50]

BLITZER: In addition to the tens of millions here in the United States who watched the first Trump/Biden debate, millions more around the world saw what amounts to be a huge embarrassment for the United States.

CNN senior international correspondent Matthew Chance is monitoring the Russian reaction.

Matthew, what are you hearing?

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, one of the reasons Russia meddles in American politics, according to U.S. intelligence agencies, is to sow discord. We're certainly getting a bumper harvest this year.

Russian state television has been all over the protests in U.S. cities, the chaos, the political division. The top anchor on state- controlled television told me recently that America has now lost its moral right to lead, music to the ears of the Kremlin, although the office of Vladimir Putin, the Russian president, has been tight- lipped.

Shortly after the chaotic first Trump/Biden election debate, the Kremlin refused to comment, saying that to do so would be interpreted as interference in U.S. domestic affairs, something the Kremlin insisted to the reporters it's something you would never do -- Wolf.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Matthew Chance in Moscow, thank you.

Some in Chinese state media are pointing to the debate as an example of what they see as American global influence in decline.

CNN's Selina Wang is following all of this for us from Hong Kong.

Selina, tell us more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SELINA WANG, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, China and other opponents of democracy were the real winners in the utter chaos of the Trump/Biden debate, according to analysts. For decades, Beijing has criticized American democracy, using flaws in the system to justify authoritarianism. Analysts say that this messy debate in which Trump questioned the

legitimacy of the November elections helps to bolster China's argument while also further eroding global confidence in American democracy. The editor in chief of state-backed tabloid "Global Times" said that the debate reflected, quote, division, anxiety of the U.S. society and accelerating losses of the advantages of the U.S. political system.

Chinese social media users also mocked the debate and state media wrote that in the debate, there was, quote, no pretense of decorum -- Wolf.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Selina Wang in Hong Kong for us, thank you.

[18:50:01]

In Germany, meanwhile, the debate is raising new questions about America's role on the international stage.

CNN's Fred Pleitgen is in Berlin for us.

Fred, what else are the Germans saying about the debate?

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, one of the things that's causing a lot of concerns here in Germany is the president refusing to condemn white supremacist groups. Now, of course, in a country with a history that Germany has, any politicians accepting support from ultra right wing or fascist groups is viewed very critically here, and there are some in Germany who believe that perhaps democracy might be under threat in the United States.

Now, there's other politicians in Germany who generally believe that right now, they don't really know where America stands on the international stage. And certainly, many of them don't believe that the debate answered any of those questions -- Wolf.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Very disturbing.

Fred Pleitgen reporting for us, thank you.

Just ahead, I'll ask the former FBI Deputy Director Andrew McCabe about the president's refusal to directly denounce white supremacy even as the FBI is now warning about the threat.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:55:43]

BLITZER: President Trump is refusing to explicitly condemn white supremacists, despite a warning from his own FBI Director Christopher Wray and bipartisan criticism of his remarks at a debate when he told a far right group to stand back and stand by.

Let's discuss with the former FBI deputy director, CNN senior law enforcement analyst Andrew McCabe. He's also the author of the new book entitled "The Threat: How the FBI Protects America in the Age of Terror and Trump".

Andrew, thanks so much for joining us.

So, clearly, the president isn't on the same page as Christopher Wray, who he appointed, named to become the FBI director. Christopher Wray testified that white supremacist groups represent right now the greatest terror threat in the U.S.

So, what are the consequences of the president ignoring and downplaying this threat?

ANDREW MCCABE, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, first, Wolf, thanks very much for having me.

If the FBI in the form of the FBI director is coming out with such a definitive and concerning statement about the white supremacist threat in the United States, every American should be listening to that and be aware of their environments and aware of the situation and be very concerned about the sort of violence that we face.

So, when the president of the United States not only fails to come out and amplify that message but actually openly disagrees it and says things and conduct himself in a way that seems to quart support from these very groups, it is just as -- it is as damaging to the FBI's mission in combating this sort of extremism as you could possibly be.

BLITZER: As you know, the president told one of these far right groups, the Proud Boys, to, quote, stand back and standby in the debate. That's what he said. Even though the president tried to do some damage control, is the damage already done with that specific exchange, that comment?

MCCABE: Absolutely. Absolutely, it's done. Remember, Wolf, we're talking about people who many of whom are conspiracy theory followers, they are reading tea leaves, looking for things, interpreting signs and messages and things, sometimes places where they don't even exist.

These words from the president will absolutely be interpreted by these groups as a green light, as some sort of an indicator that he is on their side, he's supportive of what they're doing, and it's really frightening to think about where that sort of encouraging could lead.

BLITZER: When it comes to the president's attacks on the integrity of the U.S. election, do you see the difference between the claims he's making and the type of disinformation that the Russians right now are putting out?

MCCABE: Well, there's unfortunately not much distance between those two poles. We saw in 2016 that the Russians' primary goal -- and this, of course, is one of the findings of the intelligence community assessment. One of the primary goals was to sow discord and chaos in the American democratic process and undermine Americans' confidence in the institution of our elections.

That is unfortunately exactly the same thing that the president is now doing with these baseless claims of rampant fraud and it's a rigged game, you can't trust the system. The opposite is actually true. We know this from everyone who's looked at the issue, from the FBI to the president's own commission on election fraud, and yet the president persists in the false message.

BLITZER: What do you make of the very different reaction we're getting from the Justice Department as opposed to the FBI? The Justice Department backing up, effectively, the president's claims.

MCCABE: Well, it's all too common lately to see the Justice Department, and particularly Attorney General Barr, really putting himself out there to do or say anything simply to support the narrative that the president chooses to propagate. It was, I think, incredibly encouraging to see FBI Director Wray in his recent testimony attack a different course, to stay with the facts, to stay with the truth despite the fact that that might not might be received well by his bosses.

BLITZER: Let's not forget, Christopher Wray was testifying under oath before Congress in making those statements.

Andrew McCabe, thanks so much for joining us. Once again, the new book entitled, "The Threat: How the FBI Protects America in the Age of Terror and Trump."

Thanks for joining us.

"ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT" starts right now.