Return to Transcripts main page

The Situation Room

Trump Breaks Post-Defeat Silence; Pandemic Exploding; Joe Biden Wins Georgia; U.S. Hits Record High COVID-19 Infections With At Least 154,000-Plus Cases Reported Today; Former White House Chief of Staff John Kelly Warns Delaying Transition Could Be Catastrophic; States in the Dark About Vaccine Distribution Plan; U.S. Tops 160,000 New Coronavirus Cases, A Record. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired November 13, 2020 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[18:00:00]

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: The final tally, 306 electoral votes for Biden, 232 electoral votes for Trump.

Those 306 electoral votes for Biden, by the way, match President Trump's total from his 2016 victory against Hillary Clinton, an election he had then called a landslide.

Meanwhile, president-elect Biden is pushing ahead with his transition, despite the Trump administration's obstruction. Biden's team says it wants to avoid a so-called food fight with the federal agency responsible for formally authorizing the legal transition.

CNN has also learned that the president-elect will spend this weekend considering potential Cabinet nominees to lead his incoming administration.

And we're also watching the coronavirus pandemic, which has now killed more than 244,000 Americans. The death toll is sure to climb, as the U.S. just set another awful record for new cases, more than 154,000 Americans infected in just a single day.

Let's start our coverage this hour with CNN's chief White House correspondent, Jim Acosta.

Jim, we just heard from the president in the Rose Garden, first time since his election defeat. Update our viewers on what he said and didn't say.

JIM ACOSTA, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Wolf, President Trump is still engaging in this fantasy that he has a chance to win the 2020 election, but that's not true. It's over. He didn't win.

But just a short while ago in the Rose Garden, the president took no questions and appeared to come out in front of the cameras to soothe his damaged ego. He suggested there was a way he could somehow remain in office after January. That's not happening.

But even officials in the Trump administration say Mr. Trump's conspiracy theories are bogus when it comes to the election, that they are full of lies. And while the president is full of bluster in front of the cameras, his close allies are telling a different story, that he is starting to come around to the reality that he has lost.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ACOSTA (voice-over): Welcome to the White House Twilight Zone, where President Trump is still publicly clinging to an alternate reality, the one where he can still win the 2020 election.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This administration will not be going to a lockdown. Hopefully, the -- whatever happens in the future -- who knows which administration it will be? I guess time will tell.

ACOSTA: But in the real world, it's a different story, as CNN projects Joe Biden has won Arizona and Georgia, with Mr. Trump clinching North Carolina.

That gives Biden a big 306-electoral vote victory, as the popular vote margin shows the president-elect to head by more than five million ballots.

GERALDO RIVERA, FOX NEWS: I got no impression that he was plotting the overthrow of the elected government.

ACOSTA: Still, some of the president's friends like FOX's Geraldo Rivera are sounding like hostage negotiators, trying to talk Mr. Trump into surrendering to defeat.

RIVERA: Every impression he gave me, Harris, was that, if the process went against him, and he was satisfied that every vote, legitimate vote, had been counted, and every illegitimate vote had been thrown out, that he would follow the edict of the Constitution and surrender the office.

ACOSTA: The problem is the president still has a team of dead enders enabling him.

White House Press Secretary Kayleigh McEnany, who is doubling as a campaign adviser, is spinning the fantasy that Mr. Trump is marching toward a second term.

KAYLEIGH MCENANY, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: I think the president will attend his own inauguration. He would have to be there, in fact.

ACOSTA: The president's top trade adviser, Peter Navarro, sounds stuck in an upside-down world too.

PETER NAVARRO, DIRECTOR, WHITE HOUSE OFFICE OF TRADE AND MANUFACTURING POLICY: We're moving forward here at the White House new assumption that there will be a second Trump term. We think he won that election. And any speculation about what Joe Biden might do, I think, is moot at this point.

ACOSTA: They're taking their cues from Mr. Trump, who's tying himself into a pretzel claiming he's been cheated, tweeting: "Now they're saying what a wonderful job the Trump administration did in making 2020 the most secure election ever. Actually, this is true, except for what the Democrats did. Rigged election."

Not so, according to the president's own Cybersecurity Agency, which stated: "The November 3 election was the most secure in American history. There is no evidence that any voting system deleted or lost votes, changed votes, or was in any way compromised."

And while McEnany insists Mr. Trump will fight it out in the courts...

MCENANY: Read through some of these affidavits. I now have three binders.

SEAN HANNITY, FOX NEWS HOST: Wait. Hold that up. Let me up. Hold that up. Can I see it?

MCENANY: Well, I have three binders. These are court filings and affidavits. But they're startling, Sean.

ACOSTA: His campaign has dropped a legal challenge in Arizona and his lawyers have bailed on a case in Pennsylvania. Despite those developments, advisers say the president may never can see the race, a contest he once said he couldn't handle losing.

TRUMP: He is the worst candidate ever to run in the history of a presidential election, really. At least, if you lost, you could say, hey, you lost to a good candidate. How the hell do you lose to a guy like this?

(LAUGHTER)

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ACOSTA: Asked about the president's mental state, a White House adviser compared the president to the 1991 Detroit Pistons, who famously refused to shake hands with the Chicago Bulls, who won the NBA championship that year, as you will recall, Wolf.

[18:05:01]

The adviser said the president could do the same thing, the exact same thing, when it comes to this election, leave the court without conceding defeat. This adviser called Mr. Trump -- quote -- "a bad boy for life" -- Wolf.

BLITZER: As a longtime NBA fan, I remember that game. I remember it well.

All right, Jim Acosta, thank you very much.

Let's get an update on the Biden transition right now.

CNN's Jessica Dean is joining us.

So, Jessica, now that the race in Georgia has been called for Biden, his team is expressing total confidence that his lead will survive any recount. They're also looking ahead to the crucial January runoffs in Georgia that could determine, of course, control of the U.S. Senate.

And we're learning that the campaign will begin pouring lots of money and resources into that campaign for the two Democrats. What else can you tell us about what's going on with this historic transition right now?

JESSICA DEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, we know the president- elect is going to spend this weekend with transition advisers considering potential nominees for his Cabinet in his new administration.

He's someone advisers described as notoriously deliberative, so we're not expecting any major announcements over the next few days, as he really mulls over his options there. He's pointed toward Thanksgiving or thereabouts for the first handful of announcements on that.

But, in the meantime, his transition team is moving ahead rapidly.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEN PSAKI, BIDEN TRANSITION ADVISER: We're charging ahead with the transition.

DEAN (voice-over): During a virtual briefing, Biden's transition team offering assurances the transition process is moving ahead, even as they continue to wait for the General Services Administration to trigger the official transition process.

PSAKI: We're not interested in having a food fight with the GSA administrator or anyone really. We just want to get access to intelligence information, to threat assessments, to the ongoing work on COVID, so that we can prepare to govern.

DEAN: With official access to federal agencies blocked, CNN has learned Biden's transition team is back-channeling with governors, the private sector and the medical community to prepare its COVID-19 response.

Biden's newly named chief of staff, Ron Klain, said in his first interview since getting the job that Biden will issue a national mask mandate on his first day in office and install a White House COVID coordinator.

RON KLAIN, INCOMING WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF: And he will have a COVID coordinator who works in the White House who has direct access to him and will be briefing him daily.

DEAN: When it comes to Republican outreach, Klain says Biden has spoken to some GOP governors and senators, but not Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, who so far has refused to acknowledge Biden as president-elect.

KLAIN: There will be a time and a place for Joe Biden and Senator McConnell to talk.

DEAN: In a new interview, former President Barack Obama expressed his disappointment in Republicans for not pushing back against President Trump's false allegations of election fraud or his refusal to concede.

BARACK OBAMA, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: There's damage to this, because what happens is that the peaceful transfer of power, the notion that any of us who attain an elected office, whether it's dogcatcher or president, are servants of the people. It's a temporary job. We're not above the rules. We're not above the law. That's the essence of our democracy.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

DEAN: We have also learned the Biden transition team is reaching out to former Pentagon officials who worked out under former Defense Secretary James Mattis.

Of course, remember, the transition team not allowed to officially reach out or contact any current Pentagon officials as it stands right now. So we're told that they figured former officials were as good as it was going to get right now. They're also, we're told, Wolf, just simply looking for information, trying to get a lay of the land inside the Pentagon -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Good idea, indeed. These issues are so, so critical.

Jessica Dean reporting for us, thank you.

Let's bring in CNN's David Chalian with the latest on the vote count right now.

David, CNN is making these major projections in the presidential race.

First of all, update our viewers.

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Yes, well, you noted the numbers that are going to go in the history books, this Electoral College count, 306 electoral votes for Joe Biden, now that Georgia has been added to his column, 232 electoral votes for Donald Trump, now that we added North Carolina to his column, Wolf.

This is what Donald Trump referred to as a landslide when he was on the other side of it four years ago. This is a pretty substantial victory. Let me just show you what we did here today by calling the remaining states.

In Georgia, you see that Joe Biden has 14,172-vote lead over Donald Trump. This is why the Biden campaign is so certain the recount is not going to upend it. There's never been a recount that could overcome an advantage like that in the vote count. And how did he do it?

Well, he did it, of course, by focusing on the suburbs, the ever- expanding Atlanta suburbs. And I will note, how do you turn a red state blue? This is the first time a Democrat won this at the presidential level since 1992.

[18:10:02]

Joe Biden did it by winning the center. There was a 20-point shift among independent voters in Georgia. From an 11-point Trump advantage four years ago, this time, independents swung to Joe Biden, and he won independents by nine points in this state, Wolf.

In Arizona, what do you see here? A Joe Biden lead of 10,986 votes, 49.4 percent to 49.1 percent. We projected that Joe Biden will be the winner of Arizona last night. That boosted his Electoral College count.

How did he do it here? Also, independents swung Joe Biden's way by some 14 points from last cycle to this cycle. But I will also note, senior citizens make up nearly three in 10 voters in Arizona, and four years ago, Donald Trump won seniors by 13 percentage points. This year, Joe Biden erased that advantage, splits seniors evenly with the president.

That helped him win and flip that red state blue. This is critical for the Democrats going forward in elections in the future to expand into this Sunbelt region.

And, finally, we called North Carolina. The president's going to hang on to that in his column, 73,698 votes ahead. We got the counties to certify their vote totals today. And we were able to project that Donald Trump will hang onto that. But, of course, that is not enough to get him to win the race.

BLITZER: Very impressive Electoral College win by the president-elect of the United States, 306-232, and, David, as you know, the exact same number that Trump won four years ago.

The huge difference, though, between that win for Trump, this win for Biden is the popular vote. Four years ago, Trump, as you well know, he lost the popular vote to Hillary Clinton by almost three million votes. This time, Biden is way ahead in the national popular vote by more than 5.3 million.

CHALIAN: Yes, take a look at this.

Joe Biden currently has 78 million votes to Donald Trump 72.7. As you notice, he is 5.3 million votes ahead, 50.8 percent to 47.4. This isn't how we elect presidents. But this margin is going to grow for Joe Biden, as California, New York and other places continue to tally votes.

That 5.3 million advantage, that's going to go up, perhaps as big as a six million advantage. So, you are right to note, Donald Trump, though he won the election four years ago, he will now have lost two elections in the national popular vote -- Wolf.

BLITZER: And I'm sure he's not going to be reacting very happily to when he sees all this on television.

But he's still, David, refusing to concede.

CHALIAN: He is, but it actually doesn't matter, because the reality is, whether Donald Trump ever acknowledges it, on January 2020, 21, Joe Biden is going to become the 46th president of the United States. BLITZER: Yes, he is, what, about 67 68 69 days from now, there will be

an inauguration, on January 20. And at noon Eastern, he will be the next president of the United States.

All right, David, thank you very, very much.

CHALIAN: Sure.

BLITZER: We have got our political experts, who are standing by for analysis. We will do that in just a moment.

But first, we have to take a quick break. Everybody get ready. Lots more at all the breaking news right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:17:26]

BLITZER: We're following the breaking news on the presidential transition that's under way right now.

Let's discuss with our chief political correspondent, Dana Bash, CNN senior political commentator David Axelrod, and CNN political commentator Bakari Sellers, the author of the new book "My Vanishing Country: A Memoir."

Dana, I want you and our viewers to listen to what the president said during this, his first public appearance since he lost the election. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Ideally, we won't go to a lockdown. I will not go -- this administration will not be going to a lockdown.

Hopefully, the -- the -- whatever happens in the future -- who knows which administration it will be? I guess time will tell.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: So, Dana, it was a curious because it almost sounded like the president stopped himself from saying a new administration will be taking over.

Why won't he publicly acknowledge the truth, what we all know, that Joe Biden will be the next president of the United States?

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: It's a great question, Wolf.

It's a question that people, as they get closer and closer to his inner circle, are beginning to ask more and more and more loudly and more loudly. And it's just not possible for them at this point to get him to that point, to get him to the point where he even acknowledges it. And the truth is, according to people I talk to around the president,

it's unclear if he will ever get to the point where he utters even something close to a concession. What I'm told he is more likely to do, when an if the time comes, is to talk about this chapter being over and do it with fighting words, talking about how nobody ever thought he was a legitimate president, so on and so forth, a lot of the grievances we have heard him say time and time again.

He believes, according, again, to people who talk to him, that he owes the now 72 million people who voted for him the fight that they expect from a Donald Trump.

The problem is that he's selling them something that is just not real. I mean, he's selling them snake oil, because what he's saying is, it's fraud, it's rigged. And there's no evidence of that, as we have been reporting for the past two weeks.

BLITZER: And it's so dangerous for him to do that as well.

David, during that Rose Garden event, the president shared the microphone with some officials who were praising his leadership, but he did not take any questions, not even one question, from reporters who were there in the Rose Garden.

What does that say to you?

DAVID AXELROD, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, it says to me he knows that he's in a jam.

[18:20:00]

I don't think he had a good answer to these questions. Yes, we saw Operation Warp Speed and operation foot-dragging on display at the same time. This thing is over. And he doesn't want to acknowledge it. And he doesn't want to acknowledge it for a couple of reasons.

One is, the worst thing that you can be called in Donald Trump's world is a loser. That is the epithet that he shares for his worst enemies.

Secondly, I think he wants to build whatever he's going to do from here on this notion that he wasn't treated fairly, that this election wasn't on the level, because that grievance is going to be the gasoline for his movement, for his television network, whatever comes next.

So, this is -- I think it was predictable. But we should point out, it's not just -- like, I don't think that Joe Biden loses a lot of sleep worrying about whether Donald Trump will acknowledge that he won the election. He may lose some sleep knowing that the kinds of connections that you can make once a transition is fully under way, that the key people in national security and on the coronavirus and so on are connecting with their counterparts in the Trump administration.

That is a serious issue. And so, Trump is not -- while he assuages his ego and whatever his plans are for the future, the country is being put at risk because there isn't the level of coordination you would expect during a normal transition.

BLITZER: Yes, there are national security issues at risk, and life- and-death issues because of the coronavirus pandemic at issue.

AXELROD: Yes.

BLITZER: And, on January 20, the incoming administration needs to know what's going on and needs to start working to save the lives of American -- of the American people.

Bakari, how long can President Trump continue to ignore the results of this election?

BAKARI SELLERS, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, I think he can last until at least January 20 at 11:59:00 a.m., when Secret Service comes and escorts him out to the helicopter, and he can go wherever in the country or the world he wants to go.

So, I think that he's going to drag this out as long as possible.

David brought up a really good point. It's the psychological block, because he does not want to be deemed a loser. And although he lost this election, he's a part of a club that only 45, now 46 other people, other men, have been in.

And most of us would take into consideration our legacy, take into consideration some of the things we have done. And regardless of whether or not I like Donald Trump or despise Donald Trump, he's going to go down in history as a former president of the United States. For many people, that would be something and a legacy that you would want to build upon.

For Donald Trump, he can't get over this block of simply losing an election. And, trust me, I have lost an election before in my lifetime. It wasn't president of the United States of America, but I understand how difficult that can be to even lose a statewide election.

Donald Trump simply cannot get over that. He also has some ancillary things weighing on him, whether or not he goes out and starts a Trump TV, as David also mentioned, or whether or not he has to evade or try to figure out what he's going to do about these prosecutorial bodies that are coming his way.

He has a great deal that's weighing on him right now. And, as Donald Trump has always done, he puts himself before everything else.

And the last thing I will tell you, Wolf, is what stood out to me the most is the fact that he's talking about going to this MAGA rally that is sponsored by people like the 3 Percenters, by the Oath Defenders, by white supremacists, and many others.

He is going to leave -- as the old saying is, you dance with the people who brought you there. He is dancing with the people who brought him here by saying he's going to participate in this rally.

BLITZER: It's supposed to be here tomorrow.

BASH: And...

BLITZER: Go ahead, Dana.

BASH: Yes.

Well, no, and I think what Bakari said is so important. The really unfortunate thing about the way this ended is that he is leaving conspiracy theorists and conspiracy theories with so much more fuel, as if they needed it.

And he's also being enabled by people who don't necessarily like him, meaning some Republicans on Capitol Hill don't necessarily -- certainly don't think he's actually going to win a second term. They believe it's over.

But they're just continually intimidated by him and scared that, if they speak out too much, that he's going to tweet something bad about them and that their shared constituents are going to retaliate.

And that is the reality of the entire Trump administration, the entire Trump era. And it hasn't changed.

BLITZER: Yes, he still has time. He could leave with some semblance of grace and dignity, or he could leave as a very angry sore loser.

Guys, thank you very, very much.

Just ahead, I will speak with the co-chair of president-elect Biden's new Coronavirus Task Force. Dr. Vivek Murthy, the former surgeon general of the United States during the Obama administration.

He is standing by live.

And later this hour, I will speak with the author and "New York Times" columnist Thomas Friedman. He will join me here in THE SITUATION ROOM. I will have him weigh in on the president's refusal to acknowledge his election defeat.

[18:25:05]

We will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: We're following the breaking pandemic news.

The United States just hit another record high number of new coronavirus cases with more than 154,000 reported today alone. And the day is by no means yet over.

[18:30:00]

Joining us now, the former surgeon general of the United States, Dr. Vivek Murthy, he's the new co-chair of President-elect Biden's coronavirus task force. Dr. Murthy thank you so much for joining us. Thanks to everything your doing.

I know you briefed the president-elect today and afterwards. He issued a rather stark warning that action on this surge can't wait until he takes office on January 20th. How much power does the Biden advisory board have to influence public health right now during this transition?

DR. VIVEK MURTHY, CO-CHAIR, PRESIDENT-ELECT BIDEN'S COVID TASK FORCE: Well, thanks, Wolf. It's good to be with you. And this is a grim day for the country. And because we're seeing cases skyrocketing, we're seeing hospitals fill up and we're seeing the death toll march up, which is exactly what we don't want to see.

But President-elect Biden had put forth a number of plans during the campaign. And what this advisory group is doing is to put a finer point on those plans, to use even more recent and updated scientific evidence from the last few weeks to make sure that these plans are in a place where they can be implemented as soon as he takes office in January.

But you bring up a good point, Wolf, which is we can't wait until then to act. We have got to act right now. And even though the president- elect is actually not yet the president, you think you will see him do is really use the platform he has to communicate directly with the public, to recognize that, yes, we're all struggling, we're all tired at this point in the pandemic.

But it lies within us to actually -- the power, really, to slow the spread of this virus, because it's about us wearing masks, it's about us keeping our distance from others and washing our hands. By doing those things, we can slow the spread of this virus and you'll hear President-elect Biden say that, you know, a lot over the next few weeks.

BLITZER: Well, I think that's important. But what also is important, Dr. Murthy, as you well know is having some preliminary conversations with the outgoing coronavirus task force, whether Dr. Fauci, Dr. Birx, Dr. Redfield, and the others, because you guys got to be able to come up to speed quickly. Have you had any serious conversations with your counterparts, the outgoing administration experts?

MURTHY: It's a good question, Wolf. You know, we're still waiting for the opportunity to have those conversations. I know there's a process that's playing out that the current administration and the incoming administration, you know, are working out.

But there's a lot of work we can do and are doing right now to develop the kind of plans that a Biden administration would need in order to address the pandemic. And I'll tell you what they really center around. They center around the goals of stopping the spread of the virus, reopening safely and protecting the hardest-hit populations all with the mind toward rebuilding public trust.

And there are a number of components in these buckets that we have been working on that include expanding testing capacity and producing more protective equipment so that we can ensure our nurses and doctors don't run out of masks. There are plans here that we're building to increase the use of masks by the public and develop a solid plan for vaccine distribution, as well as for contact tracing.

But the most important piece here, Wolf, is going to be that public trust component, because without that, we can't do anything else. And that's why we're going to see an approach to rebuilding trust that centers around communicating honestly and openly, leading with science and ultimately delivering results.

BLITZER: Are there going to be regular briefings by the -- by you and your colleagues on the Biden coronavirus advisory council to the American public during this transition?

MURTHY: So, we're still working out some of those details, Wolf. So, we don't know yet. But what I can tell you is that the advisory group is working together with the transition team very, very closely. We are briefing the president-elect, you know, regularly. We also have been briefing the vice president-elect. And the goal is to work as a team here and to work with anybody who is willing to be a partner. That includes, you know, folks in the community, from schools to companies to community organizations, to people in the administration right now. And we're eager for the opportunity to get those conversations started.

BLITZER: With these numbers of cases, confirmed coronavirus infections, hospitalizations, deaths going up and up and up, and as we approach Thanksgiving and the holiday season, Dr. Murthy, what's the most important message you want to send to the American public right now?

MURTHY: Well, this is a very, very important moment for us. Because we've seen during other holiday weekends, Memorial Day and Labor Day, that we've seen surges once people came back. And we're at a point now, even pre-Thanksgiving, where we are surging beyond any level that we had seen over the last eight months.

[18:35:03]

And so, my message to people around the country, as Thanksgiving approaches, is that what we do over these next few weeks is going to have a profound impact on whether this spread increases or whether we ultimately control the spread of this virus. And if we can wear our masks and stay distant from others, if we can wash our hands, then we can do a lot to slow the spread of this virus.

If you're thinking about going home for Thanksgiving, ask yourself if you can observe these kinds of precautionary practices, because if you can't, then you may be putting yourself and others at risk.

BLITZER: Dr. Murthy, good luck to you, good luck to all of your colleagues who are helping the incoming administration get ready for what is clearly a horrible, horrible situation right now. Thank you so much for joining us.

MURTHY: Thank you so much, Wolf. Take care.

BLITZER: Thank you, and you too.

There's more breaking news we're following. The former White House chief of staff, General John Kelly, is now warning, and I'm quoting now, of catastrophic potential consequences from President Trump's refusal to cooperate with the transition to the Biden administration.

Now, I'll talk about it with Tom Friedman. There you see him. He's standing by live.

We'll also have an update on the very difficult logistical challenges states are now facing as they prepare to distribute, and we hope they will be able to, a coronavirus vaccine. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:40:00]

BLITZER: The breaking news we're following, the former White House chief of staff, General John Kelly, is slamming, slamming President Trump for refusing to facilitate a peaceful transition of power.

In a new statement just release, Kelly calls the delay an increasing national security and health crisis and warns that the consequences could be, in his word, catastrophic.

Let's discuss with The New York Times Columnist, Thomas Friedman, he's the author of The World is Flat, and many other major bestselling books. Tom, thanks so much for joining us.

What's your reaction to this very stark warning about national security, about the health of the American people being undermined by the president's refusal to do the right thing and order this transition?

THOMAS FRIEDMAN, NEW YORK TIMES FOREIGN AFFAIRS COLUMNIST: Well, Wolf, you know, I don't know that we face a particular immediate geopolitical threat right now. But there are two giant threats looming domestically. The first is an economic one. If we have to go back into lockdown or near lockdown because the virus just gets so out of control that it begins to overwhelm hospitals and emergency care facilities, what that's going to mean for the economy is just going to be devastating.

There are a lot of people, small businesses who managed to hang on for a while, people who worked out deals with their landlords, bankers, et cetera, and you get two more months now really freezing the economy, they're going to tip over.

And therefore, what we really need in a normal country, what you'd really want in a normal country and in a normal transition is President-elect Biden right now would be sitting down with Congressional leaders, both Republican and Democrat, and figuring out what is the next stimulus we're going to have, what's going to be infrastructure that we're going to build to try to create a bigger, deeper productive capacity for the country and how are we going to help out people whose businesses now are being crushed or can't even pay their rent or buy food. That's one looming crisis that you want Joe Biden and Republican and Democrat leaders to be working out.

The second, of course, is on the pandemic. If this thing is going out of control, if it is going to overwhelm hospitals, what we want is what Vivek Murthy was talking about. We want a program that the vast majority of people can trust, that they learn from scientists. And it's a program, Wolf, that says, wear a mask for work, not mask against work. It's not mask or work. It's not mask or football games. It's not mask or going to the bar. It's always been mask for work, mask for going out, mask for being in a restaurant. And we need to create a whole new consensus around that based on science and our best scientific leaders.

That's what Joe Biden wants to do, I know. But as long as Trump is sitting there, it's become impossible for him to do that. And that, for sure, Wolf, is really hurting the country.

BLITZER: How dangerous is it right now every day that goes by without the president acknowledging that he lost the election, wishes the incoming president the best wishes and starts to have his team cooperate with Dr. Vivek Murthy and all the others who are working on the transition.

FRIEDMAN: Well, you know, to me, the biggest long-term corrosive effect of that is on the Republican Party. It's like, wow, you just have to sit back and say, if they behave this way when they lost, how would they behave now when they've won? And the president sacked the secretary of defense. He sacked senior Homeland Security leaders. It makes you wonder, when can we ever trust this group of Republicans in power again.

This is such unprecedently bad, reckless and irresponsible behavior all built around the ego and sensitivities of one man, Donald Trump.

BLITZER: General Kelly, I want to get back to the president's former chief of staff, he is not actually admitting in the statement in the statement that the president lost the election. In fact, he's clearly couching his comments by saying, and I'm quoting him now, if Mr. Biden does indeed win the election.

[18:45:02]

But why are so many leaders simply coddling the president right now this way instead of simply telling the president of the United States, you've lost. Let's move on and do it in a gracious way?

FRIEDMAN: You know, Wolf, there's no other way to say it. This is not a political party. This is a cult, OK? A political party goes into an election with a platform. We've never seen in our modern political history a political party go to a convention and have no platform. It's only what Donald Trump wants. So, this is not a party. It's a cult.

This is Jim Jones. This is not the Republican Party you know of. And as a result, they're all afraid of the cult leader.

That said, Wolf, I also think the cult leader is worried about his hold over his cult followers. That he's worried.

I think one of the things really prompting Trump to hold fast to power, he's worried about -- Jim Baker used to say, how do you know you're out of power in Washington, when your limousine is yellow and your driver speaks Farsi.

And I think Trump understands power and he understands the minute he cedes power to Biden, that his hold over his cult followers, it won't be the same. You know, those phone calls, they won't be returned so quickly. People calling him, asking for things, they won't be lining up so fast. A lot of them will be going to Joe Biden. He may not be able to call into fox any time he wants.

I think this is very personal. He's a man who understands power and how people behave when they you got it and when people don't return your calls when they think you don't have it. I don't think that's what's motivating him more than anything.

BLITZER: Yeah. And certainly, as everybody knows him well, including his biographers and family, they say being a loser from his perspective, that's a worst thing that can happen to anyone. He always wants to be a winner. In this particular case, he's lost the election. It's time to move on.

Tom Friedman, as usual, thanks so much for joining us.

FRIEDMAN: Anytime, Wolf, thank you.

Just ahead states across the United States are in the dark right now about distribution plans as promising news emerges about two potential vaccines. We have new information. We'll update you when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:52:00]

BLITZER: Promising news on two potential coronavirus vaccines this week. It has states wanting to prepare for distribution, but uncertainty is clearly there on how to proceed.

CNN's Sara Murray is working the story for us.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): With the U.S. on the cusp of a coronavirus vaccine, states are still in the dark about how many doses they may get. Yet another hurdle in the scramble to nail down distribution plans.

CLAIRE HANNAN, ASSOCIATION OF IMMUNIZATION MANAGERS EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR: States have heard different reports about how many doses they'll get. Pfizer is saying they'll have, you know, several million ready to go. We're not quite sure exactly how many it will be.

MURRAY: With Pfizer's vaccine showing promising results in clinical trials and Moderna on the verge of announcing its own efficacy data, experts say the vaccine could be available to some Americans beginning in December.

HANNAN: It will be targeted to priority populations, mostly health care workers, essential workers, those over 65.

MURRAY: But the alphabet soup of government agencies overseeing the vaccine effort, CDC, DOD, HHS, has states struggling to plan for what's to come. Adding to the unease, memories of severe shortages in personal protective gear early in the pandemic which left states clamoring for more supplies and undermine confidence between states and the federal government.

Once again, states tell CNN they are looking for more clarity and transparency. In Missouri, General Gustave Perna, one of the leads of Operation Warp Speed told a top health official he knew how many doses the state was likely to get but wasn't willing to share the number yet.

In California, officials say they're planning for multiple scenarios. In Minnesota, officials say they need more federal funds to carry out a vaccination program.

The government hasn't publicly revealed its allocation formula. But HHS official Paul Mango says they'll take into account priority groups each state when doling out doses.

PAUL MANGO, HHS OFFICIAL: We know how many folks are residents in nursing homes, for instance. We can get through the Bureau of Labor Statistics and otherwise information on the number of frontline health care workers. We can get the number of folks who, again, the Department of Agriculture and others, the number of folks working in meat packing plants.

MURRAY: Once states learn how many doses they'll get. They'll decide where to direct them. Pfizer's vaccine comes with an added challenge. It must be kept around minus 100 degrees Fahrenheit which will limit where it can be made available.

ALEX AZAR, U.S. HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES SECRETARY: The Pfizer vaccine does require extra cold storage and it will come in large quantities. It will be best attuned early on to mass vaccination programs, for instance, of health care workers at hospitals or skilled nursing facilities.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MURRAY: Now, we know at the beginning, the supply of vaccines is going to be extremely limited. We're expecting this first batch to be 20 million doses. They want to direct these doses toward health care workers.

That's why it's so important for states to be able to find out how many doses to expect so they can make sure those end up in the right places. Wolf, it probably won't be until the spring or the summer until most Americans are able to get this vaccine.

[18:55:00] BLITZER: Sara Murray, excellent reporting, thank you very much.

An important note to our viewers, a sad one. During the time of this broadcast, the U.S. just passed 160,000 new confirmed coronavirus cases today. That's a record. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Finally, tonight, a tribute to some of the many Americans who died during the coronavirus pandemic.

Gondell Earl Morris of Florida was 64 years old. He was a corrections officer who was always supportive of his friends. He loved helping other people.

Charles Scott of New York was 76. He was an English teacher for 50 years who was excited to travel the world during his retirement.

May they rest and peace and may their memories be a blessing.

Thanks for watching. I'll be back tomorrow for a special SITUATION ROOM, 7:00 p.m. Eastern.

"ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT" starts right now.