Return to Transcripts main page
The Situation Room
Trump's Lawyers Try To Distance Themselves From Attorney Sidney Powell; Los Angeles County To Shut Down In-Person Dining As Cases Surge; Trump Legal Losses Pile Up As Baseless Election Attacks Continue; Interview With Gov. Asa Hutchinson (R-AR) About Trump's GOP Wall Of Support; Georgia To Conduct Another Recount After Trump Request; Coalition Of Florida Mayors Ask Gov. DeSantis For Mask Mandate; Senior Biden Adviser Says Trump Roadblocks Are Slowing Transition. Aired 7-8p ET
Aired November 22, 2020 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[19:00:00]
ANNOUNCER: This is CNN Breaking News.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Welcome to our viewers here in the United States and around the world. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. This is a special edition of THE SITUATION ROOM.
And tonight, we begin with a president in a state of denial, but perhaps for not much longer. A growing number of influential Republicans are now encouraging the president to finally admit that he lost the election to Joe Biden. Perhaps the most surprising voice among them today, one of the president's more steadfast allies, the former governor of New Jersey, Chris Christie.
BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRIS CHRISTIE (R), FORMER NEW JERSEY GOVERNOR: What happened here is, quite frankly, the president's legal team has been a national embarrassment. I've been a supporter of the president's. I voted for him twice. But elections have consequences. And we cannot continue to act as if something happened here that didn't happen.
The country is what has to matter the most. As much as I'm a strong Republican and I love my party, it's the country that has to come first.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Also breaking tonight, a major and surprising rift in the Trump legal team, one that seems to make the president's fight all the more unwinnable.
Right now let's go to our White House correspondent Jeremy Diamond.
Jeremy, the president's attorneys have been very vocal today, particularly about a member of their own team. You can't make this kind of stuff up what's going on right now. Update our viewers. JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: You certainly cannot,
Wolf. The president's legal team now saying that one of the members of that very same legal team is not in fact a member of that legal team.
President Trump just one week ago announced that Rudy Giuliani was taking over this legal effort and in that tweet, the president named Sidney Powell, an attorney who has also served as an attorney for Mike Flynn, as a member of that very same legal team. Just a few days ago, she appeared alongside Rudy Giuliani and Jenna Ellis who are both members of the president's legal team in this attempt to overturn the results of the 2020 election.
But this evening, Wolf, the president's legal team, Rudy Giuliani and Jenna Ellis, are announcing that Sidney Powell is practicing law on her own and that she is not a member of that legal team nor is she a lawyer to the president in her personal capacity.
So, Wolf, it's not clear what exactly the final straw was here. Sidney Powell has been spewing a number of crazed conspiracy theories about this 2020 election. She has alleged that the CIA was involved, she has alleged that the late Hugo Chavez, the late leader of Venezuela was involved in this. Has even accused Georgia's Republican Governor Brian Kemp of being involved in rigging the election in that state.
Of course, there is no evidence, no basis for any of those claims. But they're not all that dissimilar from the ones that the president himself and Rudy Giuliani have been spreading about the 2020 election including this conspiracy theory about this Dominion voting software alleging that this software deleted votes for the president and switched them to Biden, for which there is absolutely no basis in reality or fact to back those claims up.
So it's not clear, Wolf, what exactly the final straw was here. But it is notable, of course, that this is coming as the president and his legal team are finding fewer and fewer avenues to actually pursue contesting this election through the courts. The president has racked up more than two dozen losses in state and federal courts over the last couple of weeks.
BLITZER: You know, I'm going to put two tweets up -- two statements up that we just got within the last few minutes. The first one from the Trump campaign legal team, they posted this specifically, Jeremy. "Sidney Powell is practicing law on her own. She is not a member of the Trump legal team. She is also not a lawyer for the president in her personal capacity." Statement signed by Rudy Giuliani, attorney for President Trump, and Jenna Ellis, Trump campaign senior legal adviser and attorney for President Trump.
But this is what the president -- let me put this tweet up -- posted on November 14th. A little bit more than a week ago. He wrote this, this is the president of the United States, "I look forward to Mayor Giuliani spearheading the legal effort to defend our right to free and fair elections. Rudy Giuliani, Joseph diGenova, Victoria Toensing, Sidney Powell, and Jenna Ellis, a truly great team added to our other wonderful lawyers and representatives." So, Jeremy, he specifically says, this is the president, that Sidney
Powell is a member of that legal team and all of a sudden today they announced she's not a member.
DIAMOND: That's right. And in the days between that initial tweet from the president, he has also retweeted videos, including Sidney Powell's and some of the baseless allegations and conspiracy theories that she's been spreading about the 2020 election.
Rudy Giuliani who's leading the legal team also said three days ago during this news conference where he was appearing alongside Sidney Powell, quote, "I'm in charge of this investigation with Sidney and the people that you see here."
So, again, the notion that Sidney Powell was never a member of this legal team is absurd. If they want to say that she's no longer a member of this legal team, that's fine. But they're suggesting here that she was never a member of this legal team which clearly is not true.
[19:05:03]
BLITZER: Yes, they should simply say, if, in fact, she was fired, you know, you're fired. They should have simply said that and clearly, they were irritated by a lot of the crazy things she was saying, specifically, Jeremy, about the Republican Governor Kemp of Georgia who has been a very, very close ally of the president.
DIAMOND: Yes, and I mean, ultimately, Wolf, we can kind of play a game here of which conspiracy theory got Sidney Powell booted off the legal team. Was it the conspiracy theory alleging the CIA was involved? Was it the one alleging Hugo Chavez was involved or the one alleging Brian Kemp was involved? And again, the president and Rudy Giuliani and Jenna Ellis have all been spreading some version of those conspiracy theories by alleging baselessly that this Dominion voting software somehow deleted votes that should have gone to the president.
There is no basis in fact for this and just to kind of emphasize the point, these are claims that they are only making in the public sphere. They're not making them in court. And when they are making them in court, they're getting laughed out of court, just like the federal judge in Pennsylvania who dismissed the Trump campaign's lawsuit in that state to decertify all of the votes in that state.
When that judge de-certify -- sorry, when that judge dismissed that case, he made very clear that the Trump campaign wasn't making any legal arguments that had any merit whatsoever.
BLITZER: All right, Jeremy, I'm going to get back to you because there's much more on this story. But there's other important breaking news we're following in the coronavirus pandemic.
Los Angeles County has just within the past few minutes announced major new restrictions as the cases there are surging.
Let's go to CNN's Paul Vercammen. He's in L.A. for us. Paul, so what do we know about the new rules in Los Angeles County
that are about to be imposed?
PAUL VERCAMMEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's going to be a devastating tidal wave crashing down on the restaurant business here, Wolf. What's going to happen is starting at 10:00 on Wednesday, restaurants can only be open for takeout and delivery. They've already been hard hit by the economic factors in the pandemic and so they're now reeling and just digesting this news.
I'm going to bring in the general manager right now of L&E Oyster Bar here in Silver Lake.
You've just heard this. What's going through your mind?
ELLEN REHAK, GENERAL MANAGER, L&E OYSTER BAR: It's really truly devastating. It's really upsetting. I just think about all of our staff, all of my friends and colleagues in this business. Everybody is really hard hit. We're struggling to get by as is with our patio set up. So this is a real blow for us.
VERCAMMEN: And what I don't people realized is right now before Thanksgiving, with Christmas looming, you have to tell your employees they're either going to be laid off or have their hours cut for at least three weeks.
REHAK: Exactly. Exactly. It's making my heart pound just thinking about it and I got that news myself back in March. The first time the shutdown happened and we were just all reeling. And the idea of our industry crashing the way it is, is heartbreaking. And I really, really believe that little neighborhood restaurants like this one are vital to communities and neighborhoods. And everybody counts on us and I don't know how to make it work to pull through all of this, for anybody. And, you know, like you said, holidays are next week.
VERCAMMEN: And what I don't think a lot of people realize is you took all these steps to set up for the outdoor dining and winter. You invested in the heat lamps and the outdoor chairs and all that.
REHAK: Yes.
VERCAMMEN: The margins are thin in your business.
REHAK: At the best of times, yes. Yes. And it's been multiple pivots and business model switches so quickly. And all of the -- even just the tech support issues that come with switching to to-go drivers and all of these things.
And for small restaurants that are intimate and very experiential like beautiful rooms to sit in, the food is only part of it. The food is a very, very important part of our restaurant. But the experience and the ambience and the service and the neighborhood, community of it is vital. So that all goes away as well as everybody's job.
VERCAMMEN: I thank you so much, Ellen, for taking time out and bringing us the true emotions of what are going on right now. REHAK: Thank you.
VERCAMMEN: And I hope that this does not last a long time and it's just the three weeks.
So you heard it right there, Wolf. We've got another hard-hitting moment for the restaurant business here in Los Angeles. You heard that general manager just absolutely regretting that she's going to have to tell the employees that their hours are cut or they're being laid off.
Back to you, Wolf.
BLITZER: Yes. I suspect what's happening in L.A. is going to happen in so many other parts of country with these numbers right now escalating so dramatically.
Paul Vercammen, we'll get back to you in L.A. Thank you very much.
And joining us now, CNN medical analyst, emergency room physician, Dr. Esther Choo, and infectious disease expert, Dr. Peter Hotez.
Dr. Hotez, is this a step that more cities do you believe need to consider right now? Doing what L.A. County is doing. In-person dining is now prohibited for a minimum of three weeks.
DR. PETER HOTEZ, DEAN, NATIONAL SCHOOL OF TROPICAL MEDICINE, BAYLOR COLLEGE OF MEDICINE: Well, Wolf, I think what they're doing is they're looking at what's happening here in West Texas, in Lubbock, Texas, and El Paso which is undergoing a massive surge on their intensive care units.
[19:10:07]
And now the mortality rates are going to start to skyrocket as hospital staff, intensive care unit staff start to get overwhelmed. It's not just a matter of the beds, it's having the trained staff who are exhausted, donning and doffing PEE and to the point where it becomes really difficult to maintain that same high level of quality care. They're doing heroic work but we've seen historically this is when death rates really climb.
We saw this in New York in the March and April. We saw it in southern Europe, and I'm worried we're going to start to see it now in El Paso and Lubbock and other cities. And we're seeing it up in the northern Midwest.
And the difference between now and previously, though, Wolf, is we have brackets on it this time around. Vaccines are coming. The first vaccines are going to be released we think in -- later in December and then start scaling up. So at least we can say now that this is not in perpetuity, this is a short-term fix to try to save lives now. But tragically the new numbers out of the Institute for Health Metrics are 150,000 Americans are going to lose their lives between now and a couple of weeks after the inauguration.
So anything we can do to stop that and get them to the other side and get them vaccinated is something we have to take seriously.
BLITZER: All right, let me get Dr. Choo to weigh in. What do you think, Dr. Choo?
DR. ESTHER CHOO, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: Well, I have to say when I listen to that restaurant owner, it physically hurts me. I have a big chunk of my family is in the restaurant business. This has been incredibly hard. We have a slate of really bad decisions here. It's not like there's not a good decision. But the truth is, we have a fixed resource that is running out or has already run out which is hospital beds. I'm in a state where we just went into a two-week freeze. It will be four weeks for some of our -- for some of our counties.
That's no eat-in dining for our restaurants and bars as well. And it's because our hospitals and our ICUs are at capacity. My own hospital is at 90 percent capacity in our ICU and there just is no place to bump out from here. We don't have a magical pop-up valve that we have been holding on to and if we cannot deliver safe care then it just means the death rates are going to climb. So much sympathy to the business owners who are really hurting now.
You know, I think we need to do whatever we can to support them. This is not a happy choice. But it's simply what we need to do.
BLITZER: Yes. They have suffered so much, these restaurant workers, the restaurant owners, over these many, many months and our hearts, of course, go out to them. They will need extra help. Hopefully there will be some sort of economic stimulus package that will be made available in the coming weeks. We can only hope that will help these people because they are in deep, deep trouble.
Dr. Hotez, let's turn to the search for a vaccine right now which is so critically needed. We learned today some Americans could actually start getting the vaccine as early as the second week in December.
CNN's Jake Tapper spoke earlier today with a doctor in charge of what's called Operation Warp Speed. The federal government's vaccine development program. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. MONCEF SLAOUI, CHIEF SCIENTIFIC ADVISER, OPERATION WARP SPEED: Well, our plan is to be able to ship vaccines to the immunization sites within 24 hours from the approval. So I would expect maybe on day two after an approval, on the 11th or on the 12th of December, hopefully, the first people will be immunized across the United States, across all states, in all the areas where the State Departments of Health will have told us where to deliver the vaccines.
JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR, STATE OF THE UNION: How many Americans need to be vaccinated for life to be able to return to normal and when might that happen?
SLAOUI: So normally with the level of efficacy we have, 95 percent, 70 percent or so of the population being immunized would allow for true herd immunity to take place. That is likely to happen somewhere in the month of May or something like that, based on our plans.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: So, Dr. Hotez, you're an expert in this area as well. Does that timeline that we just heard sound realistic to you?
HOTEZ: Well, the first part sounds realistic because the -- Pfizer will request an Emergency Use Authorization. The U.S. Food and Drug Administration will review the dossier and what they're going to do is they're going to go back to the primary data to confirm that everything looks as good as believed in terms of the high level of efficacy and safety. It will take them about two or three weeks to do that. They'll then go to the committees and FDA VRBPAC, and CDC and ACIP, and then start releasing vaccines to the public.
So, yes, I think it's really possible by the middle of December and there's four pilot states that they're looking at. I think it's Tennessee, Rhode Island, Texas and New Mexico. So that's really exciting.
[19:15:02]
And then remember there are other vaccines coming along. There's the Moderna vaccine. I think we'll have two other adenovirus based vaccines from AstraZeneca Oxford and J&J. And of course there's a whole global ecosystem out there including our vaccine.
I think getting to 70 percent of the population by May is -- early in the spring is going to be tough. You know, I think we have to try -- I see that as an aspirational goal. The Pfizer vaccine, the first one out, may be the most problematic because of that minus 94-degree Fahrenheit freezer requirement. But the others might be a little more forgiving in terms of temperature. So we are rolling out that things are going to be much better by the spring and even better by the summer. So I'm really excited.
BLITZER: And very quickly, Dr. Choo, what do you think?
CHOO: My biggest worry is the lack of earned trust. I mean, I think we probably have the plans and the infrastructure to distribute vaccine. But even among health care workers, there's very low trust in this vaccine. If you go out to the community, particularly communities that have been hardest hit by this pandemic, specifically, black Americans, extremely low earned trust for this vaccine. So we need to really start a massive public messaging campaign right now and see what we can do to course correct that, otherwise we will never get to those numbers.
BLITZER: Yes. Those are important points as well.
Dr. Choo, Dr. Hotez, thank you. Thanks to both of you for what you're doing. Thanks so much for joining us. Hopefully you'll have a happy Thanksgiving.
President Trump's legal challenges, we're going to get back to the breaking news. Almost 30 cases so far have been withdrawn or tossed out of courts around the United States. So is his legal defeat, this latest legal defeat, the death blow of his rather long shot effort which seems to be going nowhere?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:20:52]
BLITZER: Turning back to our top story, the breaking news we're following, President Trump's legal fight to overturn his election loss may be in more trouble than we know. Trump layers Rudy Giuliani and Jenna Ellis releasing a statement moments ago distancing themselves from Sidney Powell saying she is practicing law on her own and is not a member of the team, even though the president a week ago said that Sidney Powell is a member of what the president called a truly great team, and that she's part of that team, part of wonderful lawyers and representatives helping the president deal with this legal issue.
A lot of confusion going on right now. Let's go to our national correspondent, Kristen Holmes.
Kristen, a rift in the legal team, the president's legal team. Won't help, the campaign already lost a key case yesterday in Pennsylvania. They're appealing that decision. But even that is a real long shot, right?
KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Wolf. I mean, first of all, we don't need to get into how weird this situation is with Sidney Powell. You touched on that with Jeremy. First saying that she's part of it, letting her speak at a long news conference and then saying she's doing her own thing. All of that very confusing.
But, yes, this was always a long shot. It was not clear what exactly they were doing and why they would even appeal this when they were so blatantly shut down by this judge, a conservative Republican judge in Pennsylvania, who essentially said that they didn't have the facts that one might expect when seeking such a startling outcome as overturning the election. "Plaintiff would come formidably armed with compelling legal arguments and factual proof." Then he goes on to say, "But they didn't do that."
Now here's one way that these lawsuits could impact the election. And that's through certification. So we know that Pennsylvania is supposed to certify the election tomorrow. This is done county by county. Now the biggest county in Pennsylvania, which is Philadelphia County, was said to be waiting to certify until after this case was resolved. So that's one question here. What happens if Philadelphia doesn't certify the election tomorrow? What exactly does that mean?
Now this is what we're seeing play out in Michigan as well. They went through all of these legal suits, none of them panned out. Any legal expert you talk to said that they knew, they must have known that they weren't going to pan out. But now we have a situation in which the Michigan Board of Canvassers might not certify the election tomorrow.
And here's what I mean by that. There are four people on the Board of Canvassers, two Democrats, two Republicans. We are now hearing that one of the Republicans is expected not to vote to certify, which means that the entire decision is left down to the other Republican.
And if not, we will be in a situation with a deadlock that we've never seen before and there will be lots of questions about what state law actually allows -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Yes. I was just checked in the numbers in Michigan. It's very interesting. Biden beat Trump in Michigan, in this current election, by 154,187 votes. Four years ago Trump beat Clinton in Michigan by only 10,704 votes. So they're trying to reverse a decision, at least some people are, that Biden beat Trump by more than 154,000 votes. Clearly not something easy to do.
Kristen, thank you very much.
I'll be joined, by the way, by Pennsylvania's lieutenant governor, John Fetterman in the next hour and during our 9:00 p.m. Eastern hour, the Michigan Secretary of State Jocelyn Benson is standing by. She'll join us live in here THE SITUATION ROOM as well.
But right now, the Arkansas Governor Asa Hutchinson is joining us now. He's also the vice chair of the National Governors Association.
Governor Hutchinson, congratulations on this new assignment that's going to keep you, obviously, very, very busy, as if being governor of Arkansas isn't enough.
Last week, you noted that some of the president's outstanding legal battles, you noted some of those battles, but you said ultimately you do expect that Joe Biden will be the next president of the United States. But now we're seeing so many of the president's legal arguments fail in court after court after court.
Do you agree with former New Jersey governor, a Republican, Chris Christie's sentiment, his statement that he issued today?
[19:25:03]
GOV. ASA HUTCHINSON (R), ARKANSAS: I think what you're seeing, Wolf, and particularly from the commentary that you just provided, is that state by state, you're seeing the election process work through. And I think that's the hallmark of our democracy. I think you have to be patient with it.
Yes, I expect under the current scenario that Joseph Biden is going to be the next president of the United States. But that does not obviate the right and the privilege of President Trump to take these appeals and the legal recourses.
Now, Wolf, I practiced law for 25 years before I became governor. And if you go into court, you need to have credibility and you need to have facts, and I'm afraid that we've got -- that those being undermined and the window is closing for the credibility of the appeals that they're pursuing. But they're entitled to pursue those.
We have to do a couple of things at the same time and one of them is to make sure our national security is not jeopardized. We need to make sure that Vice President Biden has access to the transition assistance that he needs. We need to make sure that he has the briefings he needs from a national security standpoint. And so all of these things have to be going on simultaneously and I hope in the next week or so that you'll have the GSA make the ascertainments necessary for this to go forward.
BLITZER: So you're basically calling on the General Services Administration, the GSA, to go ahead and open the door, allow full transition, cooperation between the outgoing administration and the incoming administration so that the president-elect, once he takes office on January 20th, will hit the ground running?
HUTCHINSON: Well, there's no downside to it. President Trump is the president of the United States --
BLITZER: Well, if there's no downside, Governor, why won't the president simply tell the GSA, go ahead and do it? This is critically important. We can't have a president of the United States on January 20th start from scratch. This president-elect needs that kind of cooperation. And you served here in Washington. You understand.
HUTCHINSON: The GSA has its independent specific authority to proceed with that ascertainment once it is likely and apparent who the successor is going to be. I expect that conclusion to be drawn closer to finality within the next 10 days as you see certifications around the different states. As you see some of the court challenges that are resolved. Whenever you do that, then if we have a secretary of the Treasury that is going to be announced, you can start the background checks.
The last thing that we need on January 20th is that we're not prepared with our National Security team. If President Trump is successful in these appeals and the challenges, then you haven't lost anything because those will continue to work. But we do need to make sure that the -- that Vice President Biden is prepared under any circumstances.
BLITZER: But you're not ready to call him President-elect yet? Is that what I'm hearing?
HUTCHINSON: Well, I expect him to be the next president based upon the facts that we have. But there's court challenges that are still in place and that that is important for President Trump and his team to be able to exercise those.
I'm a governor and every governor has different processes within their state. That is our system of federalism when it comes to elections. So let them work out state by state, let's get it right. I think everybody knows where this is going. But life, as you've pointed out, has some unexpected turns as well.
BLITZER: Very quickly before I let you go, Governor Hutchinson, I just want your quick reaction to one of the president's now former members of the president's legal team, Sidney Powell, who was at that crazy news conference with Rudy Giuliani the other day. Now she's no longer a member. But apparently they really got angry at her for blasting and attacking the Republican governor of Georgia, Brian Kemp, one of your colleagues, a man you know.
It's pretty outrageous what's going on that she was -- she is a member of the president's legal team, now she's no longer a member of the team, is attacking Republican Governor Kemp for simply doing what he believes is -- needs to be done, follow the law in Georgia.
HUTCHINSON: Well, absolutely. And of course Brian Kemp has been a strong supporter, as I have, of President Trump. But there's certain legal responsibility a governor has. But also the certification can trigger other legal remedies. So it just doesn't make sense to try to bring the governor of Georgia into some conspiracy theory and again I think the legal team saw that that undermines confidence within the court system of the facts that are being presented.
[19:30:03]
And that's really important for all Republican leaders that let's base it on facts, let's let the process work, but we cannot undermine unjustifiably the confidence the unjustifiably the confidence that the people have in your justice system, not just in the United States, but across the globe.
Let's let the process work. Let's build confidence, let's not destroy confidence.
BLITZER: Yes, and it is really important that you participated in that meeting, in that virtual meeting with the President-elect the other day, with four other Republican governors and five Democratic governors as well.
Everything I'm hearing about that -- that discussion was very, very positive.
Governor Asa Hutchinson of Arkansas, thank you so much for joining us. Thanks for all you're doing.
HUTCHINSON: Thank you. Good to be with you.
BLITZER: And have a Happy Thanksgiving, too.
Like much of the United States, the daily new cases of the coronavirus are surging in Florida right now. Now, a group of mayors in that state are demanding that the governor take action to stop the spread.
One of those mayors is standing by live. We'll discuss.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:35:27]
BLITZER: Moments ago, we reported the breaking news of new restrictions in Los Angeles County. Other cities and states may soon need to take similar steps including down in Florida where a nonpartisan coalition of mayors is asking the governor to do more to stop the spread including a statewide mask mandate. The Miami Beach Mayor Dan Gelber is joining us right now. He is part
of that coalition. Mayor Gelber thanks so much for joining us. This isn't the first time you've asked for a mask mandate. So how has the Governor responded?
MAYOR DAN GELBER (D), MIAMI BEACH, FLORIDA: The Governor has not been outside, I think. I mean, we haven't seen him -- he hasn't said a whole lot. He sent out some videos. But the last time he really spoke about this, all he did was talk about opening up the economy and in fact stopping us from enforcing local mask mandates.
So, in my community, it's very hard to even do that. He's -- I think he is -- and I hate to say it, but I think he is still following Dr. Atlas and some of these other fringe scientists who are saying you should let this virus spread and that's a terrible message, especially with Thanksgiving and the Holidays coming.
BLITZER: Yes, the numbers are exploding in terms of cases, hospitalizations, and deaths. Until there's a safe and effective vaccine, we've got to do something to stop all of this from going on.
As you know, Key West just this week approved a mask mandate with a $500.00 fine for not wearing a mask. In September, the Governor stopped allowing, as you point out, local governments to collect fines. Is this setting up for another battle about what's about to happen because I know you would like to see that mask mandate with a fine if you don't wear a mask?
GELBER: Well, my city had given out 1,000 fines. Obviously, it's not a fund raiser. We're just trying to send a message to people, and we get so many people who are visitors here. You know, we only have 92,000 residents, but we will get hundreds of thousands of visitors a day.
So, we're sort of policing the region and in fact many other communities who send folks here.
Yes, I don't know what -- you know, I think we're probably going to try to continue to give out tickets even though people know that we can't fine them with the tickets.
But I will say this, far more deadly than anything is the messaging that comes with that kind of activity. Telling everybody that everything is open and then not allowing anybody to say, but be careful, wear a mask. You've got to wear a mask.
The Governor doesn't even urge people to wear a mask at this point and the scientists that he has met with have said you don't need a mask. So all of this messaging is creating a very, very deadly mix as we come upon the Holidays in the midst of a surge in our state and our community.
BLITZER: So, so worrisome right now. Mayor Gelber, I hope you have a Happy Thanksgiving. Thanks for everything you're doing. We are grateful to you. Thanks so much for joining us.
GELBER: Enjoy your family. BLITZER: Thank you. You, too.
Meanwhile, President Trump and his administration are still refusing to formally sign off on a transition process to the President-elect Joe Biden. So how could that be affecting the nation's national security?
The former Director of National Intelligence, James Clapper is standing by live.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:42:44]
BLITZER: As the White House stonewalls the Biden transition, several Republicans this weekend have increased their calls for President Trump to face reality finally and start the process of transition, including the Republican Senator John Cornyn who said today that President-elect Biden should be receiving classified Intelligence briefings.
I'm joined now by the former Director of National Intelligence under President Obama, General James Clapper. General Clapper, thanks so much for joining us.
Let me read a sentence from what Senator Cornyn said. "I agree briefings should occur. Just a note: Senator Harris is a member of the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence and has been present during classified briefings post November 3rd."
So she is being briefed on sensitive classified information. Can she share that information with the incoming President of the United States? He was Vice President for eight years, does he have top secret security clearances still?
JAMES CLAPPER, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, that's a great question, Wolf, and I sure don't know the answer about it. I think she certainly could in a general way without compromising sources and methods, but I actually don't know -- well, I do know, I mean, he was getting briefings as the nominee.
BLITZER: Right.
CLAPPER: So I would think he would still have his clearance. And I think she should share that with him.
But the point is, that the transition should be turned on and he should be -- President-elect Biden should be getting these Intelligence briefings himself, and it's kind of like a relay race where you have two runners running along in parallel and about to pass the baton.
And you want is to develop a battle rhythm so when the 20th of January comes, the President-elect, then the President is up to speed.
But to answer your question, yes, I think he is certainly cleared. BLITZER: Yes, he was Vice President for eight years. I assume he has
top secret security clearances.
Just go back four years. You were Director of National Intelligence when Trump beat Hillary Clinton four years ago and he became the President-elect of the United States. She conceded fairly quickly within a few hours, if you will.
How quickly did he start receiving those daily Intelligence, highly classified Intelligence briefings from your team?
[19:45:10]
CLAPPER: The very next day. We offered a President's daily brief. In fact, we had two teams deployed, depending on the outcome of the election and we just deployed one which was prepared to brief the President-elect.
And I don't recall getting permission from G.S.A. or any of that. We just went ahead and did it. And that's kind of been the tradition for decades where as soon as the President-elect is known, he or she would get the briefings. That should certainly be the case here.
BLITZER: Yes, I don't remember a time when an incoming President of the United States would be denied that kind of briefing -- an Intelligence briefing, because you want the new President on January 20th to be ready with all of the latest information.
National security, life-and-death issues, correct me if I'm wrong, General Clapper, are clearly at stake?
CLAPPER: Well, exactly. The more time that lapses -- I mean, having been through a couple of transitions, that 77 days or whatever it is goes by very quickly.
And when you're assuming responsibility for the entire Federal government of the United States, which is a huge, complex undertaking, and you need ideally to use every day of that regnum, if you will, to be prepared.
And of course, foreign countries particularly adversaries know this is a vulnerable opportune under optimum conditions, and it's certainly not optimum now particularly in light of the pandemic.
So to me, this period of not sharing and not opening up the government has got to end quickly and we need to get on with business.
BLITZER: What do you think about the President's decision now during this lame duck period to impose all of these national security decisions like withdrawing troops from Afghanistan and Iraq without any consultation with the incoming President of the United States?
Clearly, President Trump has some last-minute things he wants to get through during these final days.
CLAPPER: Well, to me, it almost seems like President Trump is deliberately trying to box in President-elect Biden and constrict his options for -- you know, for example, in Afghanistan, just to pick -- or Iraq, to pick two cases in point.
That may be ultimately the right thing to do, but it would certainly be a lot better if there were consultation, transparent consultation between the outgoing administration and the one coming in. And I think it makes it very awkward.
BLITZER: General Clapper, thanks so much for joining us. Thanks for all of your service to our country. I hope you have a Happy Thanksgiving in the days ahead. Appreciate very much for joining us.
CLAPPER: Thanks, Wolf, and the same to you.
BLITZER: Thank you. Up next, stunning allegations out of Iowa. A lawsuit claims managers at a food processing plant bet on how many employees would get COVID-19.
We have details. Stay with us. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:52:47]
BLITZER: Managers at a Tyson's food pork processing plant are accused of placing bets on how many workers would contract coronavirus. That according to an updated lawsuit brought by the family of a worker who died from the virus.
CNN's Dan Simon has the story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAN SIMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Stunning allegations made against managers at this Tyson pork processing plant in Waterloo, Iowa, one of the first to shut down when the coronavirus raged uncontrollably in the spring. A supervisor allegedly taking bets on how many would get the virus. It's one of several disturbing claims in this wrongful death Federal lawsuit obtained by CNN.
According to the allegations, the plant manager of the Waterloo facility organized a cash buy in, winner take all betting pool for supervisors and managers to wager how many employees would test positive for COVID-19.
In the end, more than a thousand employees would catch the virus, about a third of the nearly 3,000 working at the plant.
Ernest Latiker spoke to CNN's Gary Tuchman in April about his conversation with the Tyson's HR department.
ERNEST LATIKER, TYSON EMPLOYEE: They told me I was safe, and they told me that everything was okay and they told me I have a better chance of catching the coronavirus going out to Walmart than at Tyson, come to work, you're safe. DEAN BANKS, CEO, TYSON FOODS: Our primary focus is keeping our plant,
the team members healthy and the community they live in, keeping the disease out of there so it stays out of our plants.
SIMON (voice over): That was Tyson's CEO Dean Banks in March, as supermarket shelves began to lay bare as plants struggled to contain the virus.
But even as best practices became known, the suit says Tyson failed to provide appropriate personal protective equipment and failed to implement sufficient social distancing or safety measures to protect workers from the outbreak.
At least five Waterloo plant workers died according to the lawsuit. The suit filed earlier this year by the family of one of them.
But it's been revised with even more troubling claims including the alleged betting pool.
Another manager is also alleged to have explicitly directed supervisors to ignore symptoms of COVID-19, telling them to show up to work even if they were exhibiting symptoms of the virus.
A concerned one employee echoed to CNN in April.
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Do you think they care about your health?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not as much as they need to.
[19:55:04]
SIMON (on camera): Now Tyson's CEO, Dean Banks, put out a statement. It reads in part, "We are extremely upset about the accusations involving some of the leadership at our Waterloo plant. Tyson Foods is a family company with 139,000 team members and these allegations do not represent who we are."
He went on to say that the alleged individuals involved would be suspended without pay, and that he has also tapped former Attorney General Eric Holder to launch an investigation.
I'm Dan Simon, CNN reporting.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: Thank you very much, Dan.
Meanwhile, the President's legal losses are piling up big time, even as he still denies the reality that he lost the election and continues to push baseless claims of voter fraud.
So what is his long-term legal strategy? Does he have one?
We will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:00:00]
