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The Situation Room

Biden Delivers Thanksgiving Address; Interview With Rep. Adam Schiff (D-CA); Trump Pardons Michael Flynn; U.S. Coronavirus Death Toll Tops 261,000 With 12.7 Million Cases; Americans Turn To Food Banks For Thanksgiving As Pandemic Deepens Economic Hardship For Millions; U.S. Daily Death Toll Passes 2,000 For Second Time Since May; Interview With Connecticut Governor Ned Lamont (D). Aired 6-7p ET

Aired November 25, 2020 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[18:00:00]

JIM ACOSTA, CNN HOST: Also breaking, just a short time ago, president- elect Joe Biden delivered a sober, compassionate Thanksgiving address to a nation in the grips of a worsening pandemic.

His message -- quote -- "We're at war with the virus, not with one another."

The U.S. death toll from the coronavirus has now topped 261,000, with more than 12.7 million confirmed cases. Experts are make one final plea to Americans, to avoid travel and celebrating Thanksgiving safely, with one doctor warning the holiday could become -- quote -- "the mother of all super-spreader events."

First to CNN's Kaitlan Collins at the White House for more of President Trump's pardoning of Michael Flynn.

Kaitlan, give us the latest.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jim, he announced it by tweet that he is going to pardon his first national security adviser, Mike Flynn, who only lasted on the job for 24 days before Donald Trump fired him in 2017 for lying at the time, he said, to Vice President Mike Pence.

Of course, we later learned that Flynn had actually pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI on two occasions. And that's a guilty plea that he later tried to undo and tried to get his case thrown out. And, of course, that ended up in that shocking twist that we saw earlier this spring, where the Justice Department tried to drop its own case into Flynn.

And it had been tied up in this legal limbo for the last several months, until, of course, now the president has intervened and this is how this saga is ending.

But, Jim, it's really hard to overstate the effect that Mike Flynn had on Donald Trump's presidency, because, of course, it was those contacts that he had and that he had lied about with then Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak during the presidential transition. That's what he lied about to the FBI and to the vice president about.

But, of course, that's also what they started investigating. And that's what the president was asking at the time the FBI director, Jim Comey, about in that Oval Office meeting, when Comey later said that the president asked him to let the investigation into Flynn go.

Of course, we later saw how that relationship went. The president later fired James Comey. That led to the appointment of the special counsel, Robert Mueller. So, you really saw what a lasting effect just that simple decision by the president to hire Mike Flynn at the time had on his presidency.

And, of course, now it's coming to a close, as the president himself is also getting ready to leave office.

ACOSTA: That's right. Michael Flynn was not just an isolated case in all of this. He was in many ways central to this Russia investigation.

And, Kaitlan, in some ways, this pardon is as close as perhaps we will ever get to a concession from the president. This makes him sound like a short-timer, to some extent.

COLLINS: That's right. The president isn't saying that he's lost the election. He is refusing to acknowledge it publicly and is insisting, the office, it has happened.

But look at his actions here. And it's making clear that the president realizes he's on his way out, because, of course, before this, there were some questions about whether or not the president was going to pardon Flynn. But there were also questions about whether or not they'd wait and see how it played out with the Justice Department, and if it could end on its own without a presidential pardon.

But, clearly, the president realizes his time in office is running short. And so he has pardoned Flynn. He could be pardoning several others, Jim, that have been on his list for a while now, George Papadopoulos, Paul Manafort. There's been talk about Jared Kushner's father, Charlie Kushner, and several other people in the president's orbit, because we have seen how over the last few years he has used his pardon power to benefit people that he knows.

ACOSTA: It's a friends and family plan, it seems.

All right, Kaitlan Collins, stand by. We will get more from you on all of this.

Let's get reaction from the chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, Congressman Adam Schiff.

Chairman, you say the president's decision to pardon Michael Flynn is yet another abuse of his pardon power. Why do you find this pardon so troubling?

REP. ADAM SCHIFF (D-CA): Well, let's remember what Michael Flynn did.

After the election, in which the Russians helped the Trump campaign, Mike Flynn had a conversation with the Russian ambassador and, contrary to U.S. policy, which was to impose sanctions on Russia, tried get the Russians to back off any reaction, essentially: Don't react. We will take care of this.

That was, I think, the message he was trying to communicate. When he was asked about it by the FBI, he lied about it. When he was speaking to the vice president, he lied about it. The president said that he had to fire Mike Flynn because he was lying.

And now, after Flynn twice pled guilty to lying to the FBI, the president pardons him and wants to portray him as some kind of a hero. Well, heroes don't lie to the FBI about contacts they have with hostile foreign powers.

It is a body blow to our national security. It's also a body blow to the rule of law, and I think makes a mockery of our democracy to those watching from around the world.

ACOSTA: Chairman Schiff, news of Flynn's pardon was met with praise from some of your Republican colleagues, including the House minority leader, Kevin McCarthy, who said the president is right to pardon the respected three-star general, as he put it.

What's your response to that?

SCHIFF: Well, Mr. McCarthy has shown over the last four years that there is no bottom to his willingness to debase himself to earn Trump's favor.

After all, this is the same majority -- or, rather, minority leader who was going to the trouble of separating Starburst candies for the president to make sure that he only got the ones that he liked.

[18:05:09]

So, I wouldn't look to Kevin McCarthy as an authoritative source here.

But we are seeing, much the same way that McCarthy and others have echoed the president's false claims about the election and the false statements about fraud in the election, he is now echoing the president's false statements about Michael Flynn.

ACOSTA: And we're learning President Trump is considering pardons for several members of his inner circle, including other figures from the Mueller investigation.

Do you view this as an attempt by the president to undo the conclusions of the special counsel's investigation and sort of rewrite the history of the Russia probe?

SCHIFF: I think it's in part an effort to vindicate himself somehow by pardoning people who were part of the same ugly cabal, for lack of a better description.

But I think it's also protective on his part. He doesn't want these people cooperating with authorities in the future, should he face legal liability. So, I would fully expect that there may be more pardons along these lines to reward people who have lied for him, to protect other people who may, under threat of their own jeopardy, need a pardon to fend off any potential testimony against the president as a private citizen.

You could also see the president prospectively pardoning people that he thinks might face charges. He may even try to pardon himself, which I don't think is constitutionally sustainable. But, nonetheless, there is no limit to this president's capacity for self-dealing.

ACOSTA: Can you do anything if he tries to pardon himself?

SCHIFF: Well, I have introduced a bill to make it clear that you cannot self-pardon. It's part of the Pro-Democracy Act, which would also require, in the case of a pardon like that of Flynn, that, in any case in which the president or member of their family is a witness, subject or target, that the complete investigative files in the event of a pardon would be provided to Congress.

That wouldn't stop a corrupt president from pardoning someone like Flynn, but it would be a disincentive, if that president knew that all of the information in the case would then be turned over to Congress.

ACOSTA: But just to ask you a follow-up question on that, that legislation would not pass the Congress, more than likely not be signed by the president, obviously.

Legally, though, could a self-pardon be challenged in court, do you think?

SCHIFF: Yes.

And the way it would work, frankly, is, if the Southern District of New York, for example, moved forward with the prosecution of Individual One, the president of the United States, for his participation in what the indictment described as directing and coordinating this campaign fraud scheme involving hush money payments and Michael Cohen, should they go forward with that, the president's lawyers, the former president's lawyers now, would argue that his self-pardon prevented the prosecution from going forward.

That would be litigated. The Department of Justice has taken the position in the past a president cannot pardon themselves. That certainly would be, I think, the position of the Justice Department going forward. And it would ultimately be up to the Supreme Court to decide.

But I will say this. As other justices have written, the Constitution is not a suicide pact. And if you interpret the pardon power as being so absolute as to allow to you pardon yourself, any president could act as criminally as they chose, and simply pardon themselves.

And I don't think the framers would have any such intention, nor do I think any responsible Supreme Court would likely interpret it that way.

ACOSTA: All right, Chairman Schiff, it sounds like a conversation we're going to be having in the coming weeks.

We thank you for your time. We appreciate it. And happy Thanksgiving to you.

SCHIFF: To you, too.

ACOSTA: All right.

And let's discuss all the breaking news with the former Ohio Governor John Kasich, our senior legal analyst, Preet Bharara, our White House correspondent, Kaitlan Collins, and our national security correspondent, Jim Sciutto, who's done a ton of reporting on the Russia investigation.

Preet, let me ask you. As a former U.S. attorney what's your reaction to learning Michael Flynn, who pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI, has been granted a full pardon?

PREET BHARARA, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Well, as a lot of people have been saying in the hours preceding this moment, it's shocking, not surprising. It's very disappointing.

And I will make one prediction. Jake Sullivan, the incoming national security adviser, will likely not be needing a pardon four years from now. That seems pretty clear.

There have been bad pardons before you could describe as corrupt and illegitimate and unfortunate. But I want people to resist what often happens with respect to things that this president does. You know, Donald Trump lies on a scale and with a kind of abandon that's unprecedented.

[18:10:00]

And he's doing the same with respect to this pardon portfolio. And we will see how many more come before he leaves office on January 20.

Just because prior presidents have engaged in, from time to time, pardons that I think are rightly criticized doesn't mean that what this president is doing is parallel to that.

He is pardoning again and again in a circumventing process, going around the pardon attorney in the Department of Justice, people who are associated with him, close to him, in the case of Roger Stone, who committed crimes in an effort to protect him.

And then you have been talking, of course, about the possibility of self-pardon. So, the scale and scope of the way in which he's abusing his pardon power, where he has a constitutional authority, but it can still be an abuse of power, is unprecedented in modern times.

ACOSTA: And, Governor Kasich, White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows tweeted his congratulations to Michael Flynn. Several of your fellow Republicans are cheering this development. What's your message to your fellow Republicans about this?

JOHN KASICH, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Let's get on with all this. The president's lost.

Now we're having a big debate about his pardons. Every president has the ability to pardon. I have great respect for Preet. He's a really great constitutional guy. He understands this, former U.S. attorney.

I just -- there's going to be more pardons that are going to come. That's what presidents do. I remember when Bill Clinton had some pardons, and people went crazy. It's the power that they have.

And, frankly, he's done. He's going to leave. The transition has started. Let's just move on.

I mean, I listened to Adam Schiff. I have known Adam Schiff not closely, but for a while. I mean, the language is harsh. I think it's time to start healing.

Tomorrow's Thanksgiving. Can we just, like, move on a little bit? And, you know, we're going to have a new administration coming in. I think their early appointments have been good. It seems to be kind of pulling the country together. People are beginning to say, well, you know what, this is not so bad.

And so that's kind of where my head is. And, Jim, so, for me, let the...

ACOSTA: But, Governor Kasich, if you don't mind...

KASICH: Go ahead.

ACOSTA: ... if I could just challenge you on that just a little bit.

KASICH: Sure.

ACOSTA: You know, Michael Flynn pleaded guilty to lying to federal prosecutors.

KASICH: Yes.

ACOSTA: Doesn't that bother you, that he's now getting a full pardon?

KASICH: Presidents have the ability to do a pardon, Jim. And he's going to do more pardons. There are other pardons that presidents have done that I didn't agree with.

It's sort of like, I remember back when Gerald Ford probably cost himself reelection when he pardoned Richard Nixon. That's what presidents do.

ACOSTA: Should he pardon himself?

KASICH: So, I want to move on.

Look, I want to change -- I want to change the subject. Donald Trump was defeated. He has been rejected, OK? They have started the transition. They finally pressured him into doing it. His friends pressured him into doing it. He's going to do some things we're not going to like.

But, you know, I'm ready to move on. I'm not even thinking about Donald Trump now. I'm thinking about Joe Biden, who's he going to put in, what's his policies going to be. That's where my head is.

And that's no disrespect to the legal beagles here. I'm just telling you where I am. And, frankly, I think that's where most Americans are going to be. Just get on with it.

ACOSTA: And, Preet, speaking of those legal beagles, or eagles, as the case may be, it's important to remember that, at one point, Flynn was cooperating with Robert Mueller, and then he stopped.

That is unusual, is it not? And does that belief -- or does that lead you to believe that this resolution was likely, that we were going to see this?

BHARARA: Yes, I think there's been a lot of reasonable speculation to that effect, that, if you think you have an ace in the hole, which is a pardon from the president in the future, you need not continue to cooperate, because you're going to be saved at the end.

And remember the conduct of Michael Flynn is conduct that the president himself used as the reason to fire him. So, he was fired not by one president, but by two presidents, and pled guilty not once, but twice.

And, at the end of the day, I understand what Governor Kasich is saying, and I understand you need to keep these things in perspective. There was a point where the Justice Department, even when it was being at its most aggressive, was suggesting -- and it changed over time -- a recommended sentence of zero to six months. And at one point, I think they said it should be six months, but would have been fine with no incarceration for the crime, given his other prior military service and honorable service.

So, I understand that the thing for which he's been charged is not something that deserved a life sentence. But it still sends a terrible signal, not just because of the pardon at this moment, but the entire saga leading up to this moment that included a Department of Justice attorney general who totally decided to reverse course on a case that was strong and where there were double guilty pleas to try to make the case go away.

So, it's an overall, I think, undermining of people's faith that there's an equal system of law for everyone, whether you know the president or not.

ACOSTA: And, Jim Sciutto, you have reported extensively on what Flynn did. What does it say that he would be pardoned here at the end of this administration?

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, there are the issues of law, which I will leave to Preet. And I get the politics, and with great respect to Governor Kasich, but we have to remember what this was about, right? [18:15:10]

The national security adviser did damage to U.S. national security here. During the transition, he communicated to the Russians, undermined U.S. sanctions on Russia that had been imposed because Russia interfered in the presidential election, right, delivered a message that it's all going to be OK under the new sheriff in town, President Trump, within weeks of Russia interfering in that election.

That did damage to U.S. national security, one. And, two, the other issue was, by lying about it, he created another national security risk, because, of course, the Russians would know that he was lying, because the Russian ambassador spoke to him, knew he had spoken to him about it, and yet Michael Flynn lied about it.

I mean, this was the concern that Sally Yates raised, right, that helped lead to Flynn's firing.

So, beyond the politics, beyond the law, there was damage done to U.S. national security by the national security adviser. And that has consequences, right? Whatever you believe the punishment should be, the results of his behavior here and the lies and the communications was one that did damage to the country's security.

ACOSTA: And, Kaitlan Collins...

KASICH: And you know what?

ACOSTA: Yes.

KASICH: And, Jim, I want to tell you, I'm not defending Michael Flynn.

I'm just trying to say that presidents have this power. Maybe the power should be taken away. Adam Schiff has this bill. It hasn't even passed the House of Representatives, because this is the power that we give to presidents. And that's not to excuse him.

But, look -- and this is not about politics. This is like I would like the 70-plus million people who voted for Donald Trump to start looking at what Joe Biden's all about and to start thinking about, well, maybe he's not a bad guy, maybe we can come together as a country.

Now, I understand this is going to be a point of contention and discussion. I got all that. But, for me, worried about my country, remember, I was on this channel saying that I was in favor of the impeachment of Donald Trump.

So, I'm not making any brief here. I'm just trying to say, in my judgment, for the good of this country, we need to move on.

ACOSTA: And, Kaitlan Collins, the White House statement on Flynn's pardon says -- and this is a quote -- "It sets right an injustice against an innocent man and an American hero."

But, interestingly, what it does not say is that the president is the one who fired Michael Flynn for lying. COLLINS: No. And neither does -- it's stunning to see this statement

coming out of the White House defending this pardoning, but also what the chief of staff said, Mark Meadows, congratulating Flynn on this pardon, when it was Mark Meadows' predecessor a few back, Reince Priebus, the first chief of staff, who was also lied to by Mike Flynn.

And so I will never forget when Mike Flynn was in court one December and Judge Sullivan, Emmet Sullivan, basically delivered this blistering rebuke of Mike Flynn's conduct, saying, this crime was incredibly serious, that he not only lied to the FBI; he lied to senior incoming administration officials, including the vice president, the chief of staff, and the press secretary at the time.

And Judge Sullivan told Flynn that, arguably, he had sold out his country by doing what he did.

And so, of course, as time goes on, I understand what Governor Kasich is saying, but what this -- what Flynn was accused of and what he was -- pleaded guilty to is incredibly serious.

But, of course, going forward, to speaking of moving on, it doesn't appear that that's going to happen over the next two months, because we are told by sources that the president does plan to pardon other people or commute other people's sentences.

So, you should be on the lookout for more people who where attorneys know the president are trying to do the same for their clients or it could be people that the president knows.

ACOSTA: I think the president is trying to remind everybody he's still the president for two more months. Can't move on just yet.

All right, thanks to all of you. Appreciate that.

Just ahead: President-elect Joe Biden delivers a Thanksgiving message to Americans exhausted by the coronavirus pandemic: Fight the virus, not each other.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:23:18]

ACOSTA: Ahead of a strange, difficult, and lonely Thanksgiving holiday, president-elect Joe Biden just delivered a message of unity for the millions of Americans who are suffering through the coronavirus pandemic.

CNN's M.J. Lee has the details.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENT-ELECT: Life is going to return to normal, I promise you. This will happen. This will not last forever.

M.J. LEE, CNN NATIONAL POLITICS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): President- elect Joe Biden sharing a Thanksgiving message with the nation on Wednesday.

BIDEN: I know that this time of year can be especially difficult. Believe me, I know. I remember that first Thanksgiving, the empty chair, the silence. It takes your breath away.

It's really hard to care. It's hard to give thanks. It's hard to even think of looking forward. And it's so hard to hope. I understand.

LEE: Speaking from Wilmington, Delaware, Biden discussing the sacrifices Americans are making, as coronavirus cases surge across the country.

BIDEN: We fought a nearly year-long battle with a virus that has devastated this nation. It's brought us pain and loss and frustration. And it's cost so many lives. But we need to remember we're at war with the virus, not with one another.

LEE: After weeks of delay, the Biden transition team now receiving access to classified information...

KATE BEDINGFIELD, BIDEN TRANSITION COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: We believe that we have been getting the information that our teams need.

LEE: ... and announcing Biden will receive his first presidential daily briefing since becoming president-elect on Monday.

The former vice president also preparing to announce some members of his economic team next week, Biden expected to nominate former Federal Reserve Chairwoman Janet Yellen as his Treasury secretary.

[18:25:05]

Biden predicting that the challenges that confront his future government will be without precedent and entirely unique from those he faced as Barack Obama's vice president.

BIDEN: This is not a third Obama term, because there's -- we face a totally different world than we faced in the Obama/Biden administration.

The president, this -- President Trump has changed the landscape.

LEE: Biden also insisting that, as he builds out his administration, a major focus will be bridging political divides across the country, and that he's even open to adding a Republican to his team.

BIDEN: The purpose of our administration is once again being united. We can't keep this virulent political dialogue going. It has to end.

LEE: Every move from Biden and his transition team seeming designed to draw stark contrasts to President Trump.

No single national issue more top of mind than the COVID-19 crisis. Biden's transition team receiving briefings on everything from vaccine distribution, testing and PPE supply chains.

Dr. Anthony Fauci saying he has been in touch with Biden's top aides, including his incoming chief of staff.

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, NIAID DIRECTOR: I have been in conduct with Ron Klain, telling me that we're going to be talking about this very soon, now that the transition is in process.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEE: Now, so many Americans are going to have to skip their usual Thanksgiving traditions this year.

And Biden saying this afternoon that his family is no exception, that, for years, his family has traveled so that they can get together and have a big family gathering, but not this year. He and his wife are going to be staying behind here in Delaware this year and only having a very small family get-together -- Jim.

ACOSTA: All right, M.J. Lee, thank you so much for that.

Just ahead: multiple states now seeing record numbers of new coronavirus cases.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:30:00]

ACOSTA: And we're following breaking pandemic news. The coronavirus death toll in the U.S. has now climbed past 261,000 people as the country tops 12.7 million cases.

CNN National Correspondent Athena Jones has the latest.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ATHENA JONES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): With Thanksgiving just a day away experts fear another huge spike in coronavirus infections at a time when the numbers are already surging.

DR. JONATHAN REINER, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: It's potentially the mother of all super-spreader events.

JONES: Tuesday marked the deadliest day since early May, more than 2,100 lives lost to the virus. A doctor in St. Louis recording this video to drive home the point.

DR. KEN REMY, PEDIATRIC AND ADULT CRITICAL CARE PHYSICIAN: I hope that the last moments of your life don't look like this. I promise you, this is what your mother or your father or your children, when they get COVID disease, will see at the end of their life.

JONES: Nearly 90,000 people set to spend the holiday in a hospital bed as the U.S. sets a record for hospitalizations for the 15th straight day. And nearly 5 million people have boarded planes since the CDC warned last week against traveling. Experts warn Thanksgiving dinners could supercharge the virus' spread, leading to skyrocketing cases and hospitalizations three weeks from now. DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: The final message is to do what really we've been saying now for some time is, to the extent possible, keep the gatherings, the indoor gatherings as small as you possibly can.

JONES: Some states already on the verge of buckling under the pressure.

GOV. JARED POLIS (D-CO): 1 out of 41 Coloradans are contagious right now. That is significantly up from the prior week. It is the most highest percentage of contagious Coloradans that we've ever had.

JONES: Colorado officials fear on its current trajectory the state will more than double its death toll by the end of the year.

California reported nearly 17,000 new cases Tuesday, its highest single-day total ever. Hospitalizations have nearly doubled in the last two weeks in Los Angeles County, where officials reported the highest number of COVID-related deaths in more than two months and warn it's going to get worse.

DR. MARK GHALY, CALIFORNIA HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES SECRETARY: Statewide, I don't believe we've ever seen as many hospital admissions increased like we did just in the past 24 hours. And I hope but don't expect that it will be the highest we ever have.

JONES: A ban on outdoor dining goes into effect in the county tonight and the health department is urging residents to leave home only for essential needs, as doctors across the country urge people to start taking proper precautions, like mask-wearing or reap the consequences.

DR. JOSEPH VARON, CHIEF OF STAFF, UNITED MEMORIAL MEDICAL CENTER: If we don't do things right, America is going to see the darkest days in modern American medical history.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

JONES (on camera): And Denver's mayor has become the latest state official to raise eyebrows for not practicing what he's preaching when it comes to taking precautions. Mayor Michael Hancock's office confirming he flew to Mississippi to join his family for Thanksgiving not long after sending a tweet discouraging travel. And in just the last few minutes, the mayor released a statement apologizing to the residents of Denver. Jim?

ACOSTA: All right. Athena Jones, thank you very much.

We'll get more on all of this with Michael Osterholm, Director of the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy at the University of Minnesota. He's also a member of the Biden-Harris transition COVID-19 Advisory Board.

[18:35:01]

Michael, thanks so much.

What would you urge Americans to consider as we head into this holiday?

MICHAEL OSTERHOLM, BIDEN-HARRIS TRANSITION COVID-19 ADVISORY BOARD: Well, despite the fact that we have great news coming down the pike with vaccines, we still have to live with the reality that we are living in the most dangerous public health moment since 1918, that the challenges we have before us right now with the ever increasing number of cases and rapidly increasing number of cases in many areas that we are going to see our hospitals literally on the verge of collapse. That's what we have to understand where we're at right now.

ACOSTA: And Dr. Jonathan Reiner, you saw him in the piece a few moments ago, White House medical team adviser -- former White House Medical Adviser, warning that Thanksgiving could become the mother of all super-spreader events. Is that overstating things, do you think?

OSTERHOLM: No. I think it's all a relative issue. I mean, Jim, remember at one time when New York had 32,000 -- or contributed to 32,000 cases a day in this country back in April, and we thought it couldn't get any worse, now, we're approaching 200,000 cases. I think the whole frame of reference we have today for what means getting worse is, and I think it's absolutely true, we are going to see continued increased number of cases.

I worry that the Thanksgiving Day surge will then just add into what will become the Christmas surge, which will then make this one seem as if it wasn't so bad.

So we have to understand we're in a very dangerous place. People have to stop swapping air. It's just that simple. And if we don't, we're going to see many, many of our friends, colleagues and loved ones ending up in a hospital and unfortunately some of them not making it.

ACOSTA: And you're a member of the Biden-Harris coronavirus task force. Now that the former transition process is under way, what kind of cooperation are you seeing from the White House coronavirus task force, people like Dr. Anthony Fauci and so on? Are there conversations going on back and forth? Are you receiving information from HHS? What's going on? Because I think a lot of Americans are hopeful that you guys are talking to one another.

OSTERHOLM: Well, the transition team actually has a limited number of individuals who are actually working directly right now with Health and Human Services. And they are getting the kind of information that we need. And that team will then be reporting back, and we all will provide whatever input we can.

But I'm optimistic right now that we're on the right track for working together closely with these government scientists, policymakers and doing the very best we can going into the next administration.

ACOSTA: And so this transition happening this week, that was a positive development, you think, in terms of getting --

OSTERHOLM: It's a very positive development. And, again, we're all in this together in the sense that come January 20th, we will already had to have been working on vaccine delivery, how we're going to get vaccine out, what we can do to deal with testing, all the things that the Biden-Harris administration has already identified as key priorities.

And I think the most important message I can give is someone who has served roles in the last five presidential administrations, it is really a very positive sign to see the dedication of science on this. Science will rule the day.

ACOSTA: All right, we hope so. Michael Osterholm, thank you so much for that. Happy Thanksgiving. We appreciate it.

OSTERHOLM: Thank you. You too. Thanks, Jim.

ACOSTA: Let's all keep this one safe. Thank you.

And ahead, officials are scrambling to handle the surging coronavirus pandemic as millions of Americans gather for the holidays.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:40:00]

ACOSTA: The devastating economic fallout from the coronavirus pandemic has millions of Americans relying on food banks this Thanksgiving.

CNN's Vanessa Yurkevich has a closer look.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

VANESSA YURKEVICH, CNN BUSINESS AND POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): The journey to get food through the cold and COVID 19 has been long and hard for Regina Status.

REGINA STATUS, NEW YORK CITY RESIDENT: Got to take it one day at a time. And as long as you have for today, you save for tomorrow. When tomorrow get here, something is going to happen.

YURKEVICH: And it did just in time.

STATUS: Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No problem.

YURKEVICH: Days before Thanksgiving, Agatha House Foundation, a local food pantry in the Bronx, New York, made a special Thanksgiving delivery filled with everything she needs for her and her two teenage daughters.

STATUS: It's just a relief that I don't have to purchase all of that.

YURKEVICH: Over 50 million Americans like Regina won't have enough to eat in 2020, in part because of the pandemic. Feeding America, the largest hunger relief group in the U.S., projects that 8 billion meals will be needed in the next year to feed food-insecure Americans.

CLAIR BABINEAUX, CEO, FEEDING AMERICA: About 40 percent of the people who right now are turning to food banks for help around the country are people who never before relied upon the charitable food system.

STATUS: Onions.

YURKEVICH: Regina is out of a job. Her car was totaled months ago. And she's not receiving unemployment. She now relies on a once a week delivery from the food pantry.

Day to day is your pantry stocked or what does it look like day to day?

STATUS: Just surviving. That's all I can say. You just have to survive it.

YURKEVICH: The 15th congressional district here in the Bronx has the highest food insecurity rate among children in the country. At Agatha House they're hoping to take the stigma out of needing a little extra help.

JEANETTE JOSEPH-GREENAWAY, FOUNDER, AGATHA HOUSE FOUNDATION: We have to look and try to imagine ourselves in the position what we would want for ourselves, not just to give them a cardboard box but to make them feel loved, special.

[18:45:04]

YURKEVICH: This small operation says it's seen a 100 percent increase in need.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Even with the little that they get, hopefully, there's someone in there are building or one of their neighbors that they can invite for a plate of food.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. Got to give miss mainly some stuff.

YURKEVICH: Despite her struggles to put food on the table --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You're welcome, Miss Mamie.

YURKEVICH: Regina is sharing what she has with her neighbor and remains grateful for this Thanksgiving.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Even if we didn't get the Agatha House or we were just having regular chicken every day, just to say that you was alive to eat it, that's a blessing in itself.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

YURKEVICH (on camera): Now, one of the ways that people have been able to meet this growing need of food is through the kindness of others, donations from other Americans. There's a concern that once this holiday season passes people will forget that this need is there. And volunteers are so key to standing up these huge food distribution operations. There's also a concern that as COVID cases spike across the U.S. people will be afraid to volunteer during a time that they're needed most -- Jim.

ACOSTA: Absolutely. This is such a critical time to reach out to people in need.

Vanessa Yurkevich, thank you so much for that report. We appreciate it.

And ahead, we'll talk to the governor of one of the states hardest hit by this coronavirus pandemic.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:51:07]

ACOSTA: And we have breaking news right now. The daily U.S. death toll from the coronavirus pandemic has just passed 2,000. That's right, 2,000 for just the second time since May.

Let's discuss with the Democratic governor of Connecticut, Ned Lamont.

Governor Lamont, thanks so much for joining us.

This is sobering news, hitting 10 -- 2,000 for the second time since May. What is your reaction to that? Just stunning numbers.

GOV. NED LAMONT (D-CT): Here we go again, although it's different. New York and Connecticut were hit very hard last spring, less hard this time around. But we see those numbers creeping up every day, and it's tough to make everybody say, here we go, hold tight, maintain the distance, put on the mask and we'll get through this if you're careful.

ACOSTA: And so, with this very sad statistic in mind, what are you asking your residents to do this holiday weekend?

LAMONT: Thanksgiving is going to be different tomorrow. It's going to be smaller, just with your immediate family.

Black Friday on Friday, no big sales at 6:00 a.m. in the morning. They're going to extend out a few weeks. You can buy from our local stores, online, pick up at the curb. Doing everything we can to keep retail and restaurants open, but only if we do it safely.

ACOSTA: And how are you, personally, be celebrating this Thanksgiving? I know many of our viewers are still making some tough decisions tonight. I guess it's not too late to change plans and listen to the advice of these experts.

LAMONT: Jim, my kids are stuck with me tomorrow. It's going to be -- usually, they have friends often from other countries. They come. I get to explain Thanksgiving to them.

Not this time. It will be just the six of us sitting around the table. And I'm looking forward to being together though.

ACOSTA: And as I like to put it, if there are few people at the table, there's more turkey for you and me, but I know you're taking additional steps with Black Friday shopping in mind. You were just talking about that a little bit, a few moments ago.

But I think that's important, because people focus on Thanksgiving. They're not thinking about Black Friday, lining up at the big box store, or whatever.

What are your concerns about that popular shopping day?

LAMONT: I'm telling retail, I want to keep you open. I can only keep you open if you do it safely.

"Safely" means number one, no overcrowding at your store. It's 50 percent capacity. Let people make an appointment, or they can line up outside or have only one entrance. Make sure people are wearing the masks.

Do as much as you can online as you can. And online can be for local business. Like I said, you don't have to go to one of the big Internet bots.

So --

ACOSTA: Right.

LAMONT: -- that's what we're trying to do to tamp down the crowds and have a good retail season.

ACOSTA: And throughout this pandemic, you've been making some decisions working with your nearby governors, Governor Cuomo, Governor Murphy.

Are the three of you working together on any new restrictions as we brace for what may become a very dark winter for this country?

LAMONT: Yeah, Jim, in the spring, we worked together very closely. It didn't make any sense if I closed down my bars and Andrew Cuomo kept them open in New York, or vice versa. All that meant was people driving back and forth.

COVID didn't know any borders. So, this time and again, we're working together very closely, trying like heck to keep our retail and our restaurants to open. Some differences, New York City closed its schools. We kept our schools open.

ACOSTA: And, finally, what's your message to the people of Connecticut tonight?

LAMONT: That I'm so proud of you. It's been a really tough go of it. It's going to not be an easy 60 days coming up.

But you're more likely to wear the mask than just about any state in the country. That's how we've kept our infection rate low. That's how we kept our schools open. And that's how we're going to get out of this, by working together.

ACOSTA: That's how we're going to do it. That's exactly right, working together.

All right. Governor Ned Lamont, happy Thanksgiving. We appreciate it. And thanks for all those words of caution to your constituents and people out there everywhere tonight. Thanks so much for that.

[18:55:00]

LAMONT: Right back at you, Jim. Thanks.

ACOSTA: And we'll have more news just ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ACOSTA: Finally, tonight, let's take a moment to remember some of those we've lost that the coronavirus pandemic.

Chaquetta Butler of Florida was 31 years old. She was a caring and compassionate woman with a beautiful singing voice. Chaquetta leaves behind a loving husband and two children.

Eloy Sifuentes of Texas was 54. He was a veteran of the U.S. Air Force, a father of five and a grandfather of two. Eloy's family says he was a jokester, who found the humor in every situation. And may they rest in peace on this Thanksgiving holiday weekend.

I'm Jim Acosta, thanks very much for watching.

"ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT" starts right now.

And have a happy Thanksgiving. Stay safe.