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The Situation Room

Will Trump Pardon Family?; Interview With Rep. Adam Schiff (D- CA); CDC Director Warns Of Most Difficult Time In U.S. Public Health History As Hospitalizations Set New Record, Almost 100,000; Moderna Starts Testing Vaccine In Teens, Children As Young As 12; Ivanka Trump Deposed In Lawsuit Over Alleged Misuse Of Inaugural Funds. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired December 02, 2020 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[18:00:00]

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Welcome to our viewers here in the United States and around the world. I'm Wolf Blitzer in THE SITUATION ROOM.

We are following breaking news.

A source now telling CNN to expect President Trump to issue -- and I'm quoting now -- a flurry of pardons before he leaves office. Just today, the White House dodged questions about reports of possible pardons for the president's lawyer Rudy Giuliani and the president's adult children and son-in-law.

Also breaking, president-elect Biden has just wrapped up a virtual roundtable, meeting with workers and small business owners who have been hurt by the pandemic's economic fallout.

Also, CNN has learned that a top contender to lead Biden's Department of Health and Human Services is the New Mexico governor, Michelle Lujan Grisham.

And there's more breaking news, a strong and disturbing warning from the head of the CDC, Dr. Robert Redfield saying the next three months here in the United States -- and I'm quoting him now -- "will be the most difficult time in the public health history of the nation."

And in breaking vaccine news, the U.K. has just become the first country to approve the Pfizer vaccine and some Britons could start receiving it as early as next week.

Let's get straight to the White House first. Our chief White House correspondent, Jim Acosta, is on the scene for us.

Jim, what are you hearing, first of all, about pardons that the president potentially could issue?

JIM ACOSTA, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Some new information, Wolf. A source close to the White House said the public should expect a -- quote -- "flurry of pardons" as Mr. Trump nears the end of his time in office.

This source also said some of the president's advisers believe that it would be perfectly fine for Mr. Trump to pardon his own family members preemptively, even though they haven't been charged with any crimes. This source went on to say some of the president's advisers also believe that Mr. Trump could legally pardon himself, something that's been disputed by constitutional scholars.

And, as for the election, White House officials aren't exactly giving Attorney General William Barr a ringing endorsement one day after he broke with the president and said the Justice Department could not find any cases of widespread voter fraud, enough to overturn the election results.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ACOSTA (voice-over): Steering clear of reporters, but surfacing at White House holiday parties, the president may have found a new official to put on the naughty list, Attorney General William Barr, as Mr. Trump appeared to be ignoring his own Justice Department's assessment that there was no widespread fraud in the election.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I call it a rigged election, and I always will.

ACOSTA: Asked about Barr's comments pushing back on Mr. Trump's false conspiracy theories about a rigged election, White House Press Secretary Kayleigh McEnany stopped short of saying the president still has confidence in the attorney general.

KAYLEIGH MCENANY, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The president, if he has any personnel announcements, you will be the first to know it.

ACOSTA: McEnany suggested that Barr didn't have all the facts, before referring the matter to the Trump campaign, yes, the same campaign she's represented as an adviser on conservative media.

MCENANY: The attorney general was speaking to what has come before his desk. And, again, I'd point you to the campaign for specific questions on this.

ACOSTA: That was hardly the only dodge of the day. On reports from CNN and other news outlets that the president and his advisers have discussed pardons for members of the first family, close associates like Rudy Giuliani and Mr. Trump himself, McEnany sidestepped that matter as well.

MCENANY: I have heard no mention of any pardons in any conversations I have had in the White House.

ACOSTA: Democrats say it's time for GOP leaders to stand up to the president.

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY): No, Mr. President, that would be a gross abuse of the presidential pardon authority. But I have a more important question. Just how long are our Republican colleagues going to indulge the president in this nonsense?

ACOSTA: As for the Justice Department's recently disclosed investigation into a potential presidential pardon bribery scheme, Mr. Trump tweeted that the probe is fake news.

QUESTION: Has anybody at the White House been questioned by federal law enforcement officials regarding potential bribes for funds?

MCENANY: No. And, in fact, the DOJ official said yesterday that no government official was or is currently a subject or target of the investigation.

ACOSTA: White House officials also declined to explicitly condemn recent threats against election officials in Georgia who contradicted Mr. Trump's bogus claims.

GABRIEL STERLING, GEORGIA VOTING SYSTEM IMPLEMENTATION MANAGER: Someone's going to get hurt, someone's going to get shot, someone's going to get killed, and it's not right.

When they called for us to resign and the senator -- I'm sorry -- the president called the Brad Raffensperger, who is a fine, upstanding, lifelong Republican, an enemy of the people, that helped open the floodgates to this kind of crap.

ACOSTA: McEnany's response to that?

MCENANY: We condemn any threats against anyone. There's no place for violence.

ACOSTA: The White House was also asked about the possibility that the president could announce he's running in 2024 around Joe Biden's inauguration, an idea discussed by some Trump advisers.

[18:05:02]

Mr. Trump hinted at that to partygoers.

TRUMP: It's been an amazing years. We're trying to do another four yours. Otherwise, I will see you in four years.

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

ACOSTA: McEnany said she's out of the loop on that subject too.

MCENANY: I have not heard any discussions of that.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ACOSTA: Now, a short while ago, the president released what is essentially a propaganda video on Facebook, repeating some of the same lies he and his team have told time and again about the election results.

We are not showing you any excerpts from that video because the allegations made by the president have been rejected in the courts, as well as by state election officials from both parties, not to mention from his own attorney general.

And the video, we should note, Wolf, was produced over here at the White House on the White House grounds, not in view of the press. Reporters were not in the room when the president made these comments -- Wolf.

BLITZER: All right, Jim Acosta, thank you very much.

Let's get the latest now on the Biden transition.

CNN political correspondent M.J. Lee is in Wilmington, Delaware, for us.

M.J., the president-elect just met virtually with workers, small business owners who have been hit so hard by the pandemic.

M.J. LEE, CNN NATIONAL POLITICS CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Wolf.

Not that Joe Biden needed another reminder of what a tough economy he is about to inherit, but at this meeting that just wrapped up with small business owners, it at times got emotional, and he again called on Congress to take action, this as he is facing all kinds of pressure on what kinds of people should serve in his government.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We do have a lot of concerns, Mr. Biden. It's been rough.

LEE (voice-over): President-elect Joe Biden staying laser-focused on the economy, meeting virtually with small business owners struggling amid the recession and the COVID-19 pandemic.

JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENT-ELECT OF THE UNITED STATES: I know you're all experiencing the effect of one great problem, and that is the economic downturn in large part because of COVID, and the failure of some of our friends in Congress to move forward on the kind of economic package.

LEE: This as the former vice president confronts lobbying from multiple directions, civil rights and advocacy groups, as well as elected officials publicly calling on Biden to appoint more people of color to high-profile Cabinet positions.

The NAACP has asked for a meeting with Biden and vice president-elect Kamala Harris to discuss this and other issues important to underrepresented communities.

DERRICK JOHNSON, NAACP PRESIDENT: There have been several meetings with other constituency groups. They have not been in a meeting with the civil rights community. We don't want the clock to run out before there's a discussion or all decisions are made.

LEE: Members of the Congressional Hispanic Caucus writing to the transition team, pushing Biden to choose New Mexico Governor Michelle Lujan Grisham as his health and human services secretary and ensure that Latinos are more fairly represented in our nation's government, sources telling CNN Lujan Grisham is currently a leading contender for that job.

Also under consideration, Rhode Island Governor Gina Raimondo, who has been interviewed for the role, a source tells CNN.

Biden on Tuesday touting the diversity of his economic team.

BIDEN: Janet will be the first woman to hold this office, and now Wally will be the first African-American ever to hold this post.

LEE: Forty-nine days out from his inauguration, Biden yet to announce other top Cabinet positions, including CIA director and secretary of defense.

BIDEN: We're just doing a piece at a time here.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEE: And just one more sign of the flurry of lobbying that we have been seeing, members of the Hispanic Caucus, Congressional Hispanic Caucus, again writing to Biden asking him to appoint either Xavier Becerra or Tom Perez for the role of attorney general.

And, Wolf, I will tell you, when I spoke to the head of the NAACP earlier today, he said it's less about these individual appointments and making sure that, overall, civil rights issues, issues that are important to these minority communities are adequately represented in the Biden administration -- Wolf.

BLITZER: All right, M.J., thank you very much, M.J. Lee in Wilmington for us.

Let's discuss all of this with our chief political correspondent, Dana Bash, and the former U.S. attorney CNN legal analyst Preet Bharara.

Dana, while it's not unusual, certainly, for a president to use his pardon power liberally in the final weeks in office, what is unusual is learning the president is actually considering preemptively pardoning his family, his lawyer, even potentially himself.

From a political perspective data, what issues do you see stemming from these potential pardons?

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, in a normal time, in a normal political world, with a normal president who is treated as such by his own party, it would be catastrophic.

But it is none of the above. There's nothing normal about this. And all you have to do is listen to the sound of virtual silence on the question of whether or not there was widespread fraud in this election.

There was not. You don't hear that from the president's fellow Republicans, and on and on and on. That has been the theme of this presidency, his colleagues, his fellow Republicans in Congress very rarely speaking up and speaking out.

[18:10:01]

And I'm not sure that this would change anything. Also, you have a president who is impervious to that kind of criticism, because he has convinced his supporters, of which there are millions and millions, that everything he says is true, even though that is far from the case.

BLITZER: Preet, legally speaking, if the president does go ahead and pardon these members of his inner circle, should we view that potentially as an admission of guilt?

PREET BHARARA, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: You can think about it that way.

Traditionally, both, in commonsense terms and based on cases that had been decided all the way up to the Supreme Court, the understanding is that the acceptance of a pardon is, in a sense, an admission of guilt. And there had been preemptive pardons before, but they're very, very rare. They're very, very controversial.

So, it's an odd game to play to balance, on the one hand, wanting to have some immunity later on, against the way it looks now optically, that you are in such worried state about your legal jeopardy and your peril, that you're prepared to take a pardon from a member of your own family, the president of the United States.

BLITZER: Does the president, Preet, have the power preemptively to pardon himself? And what exactly with such a pardon absolve him of?

BHARARA: Well, that's the question everyone asks pretty much every day.

My answer the question is, no, he does not. But that is not a settled legal question. It's never been addressed by any court because it's never been done before. There is this 1974 Office of Legal Counsel very, very tiny, short opinion that suggests that the principle by which no man can be a judge in his own case, no historical principle, means that you can't pardon yourself.

And the language of the pardon authority also seems to suggest that you can't pardon yourself. But that doesn't stop the president of the United States, who is kind of radical in many ways in violating norms, from putting out a piece of paper that purports to pardon himself.

And it won't get tested until, at some future date, someone in the federal government, someone in the Department of Justice decides to charge him, and then he waves around that piece of paper as a defense, and then that gets litigated.

But whatever he does with respect to a self-pardon, it will not cover future conduct post the issuance of the pardon, and it will not cover anything that's going on in the Manhattan DA's office or the New York attorney general's office or any other local prosecutor's office.

BLITZER: Yes, those are important points to remember.

Dana, President Trump just released this rambling 46-minute video where he tried to make his case that the election was rigged. Of course, this comes just one day after the attorney general of the United States, Bill Barr, confirmed there's no evidence of widespread voter fraud.

The president's argument is not holding up in courts all around the country. So what is he doing? What is his endgame right now?

BASH: It's the same that we have seen for the past five years and even more intensely over the past month or so, which is to create his own reality, and the reality that he lives in the reality, that many of his supporters live in, and to continue to perpetuate it.

And I shouldn't call it a reality. It's basically a fantasy world, because we're here in reality. We're in the reality where he not just is not getting anywhere in court.

He -- his attorneys are being basically laughed out of court, in some cases by federal judges who were appointed by President Trump himself, but they are following the law of the land and the basic fundamentals of democracy, which is that voters decide elections, and that, unless you can actually prove fraud, which they have not proven, you're out of luck.

And you can't change it just because you have a lawyer or you have a president who says you're going to change it. It doesn't change the fact, though, that the president does, again, have millions and millions of people who believe everything he says, they adore him. And he is playing to those people to continue to have a hold on them for whatever he does in the future, whether it's commercials, having a media network, or running again for president.

BLITZER: Very quickly, Preet, before I let you go, what did you think of the Attorney General Bill Barr's statement yesterday there's no evidence of widespread election fraud?

BHARARA: I thought it was very remarkable.

And he made it clear that there was not enough evidence of that to change the election in any way, because you and I have discussed this. A couple of months ago on this very program, you interviewed, in notable session, the attorney general.

And he made what I thought were specious claims and conclusions about what would likely be future voter fraud, ballots coming in from other countries. You pressed him on it. He said, that's common sense. And now, after the election, just a few weeks after the election, he says the exact opposite.

So I think it's very telling and it's very harmful to the president's position that still continues to be espoused by at least Rudy Giuliani, if no one else.

BLITZER: If the president has lost Bill Barr, he's in deep, deep trouble, obviously.

All right, guys, thank you very, very much.

BHARARA: Thanks, Wolf.

BLITZER: Just ahead, we will have more on whether the president could actually pardon his children or even himself. We will talk about that and more with the chairman of the House Intelligence Committee.

[18:15:02]

Congressman Adam Schiff is standing by live. There you see him.

We will discuss when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: We're following multiple breaking stories, including a source now telling CNN to expect a flurry of pardons from President Trump in the coming days.

This comes as the White House is dodging questions about reports the president may actually be considering pardons for his personal attorney Rudy Giuliani and members of the first family.

We're joined by the chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, California Democratic Representative Adam Schiff.

Congressman, thanks so much for joining us.

If the president does indeed pardon, let's say, Rudy Giuliani or any members of his family, would you see that -- and I asked Preet Bharara this question -- as essentially an admission of guilt?

[18:20:03]

REP. ADAM SCHIFF (D-CA): I certainly would view it that way.

I think millions of Americans would view it that way. If there was no belief in criminality, why would he think a pardon was necessary?

But, nonetheless, you can see the president trying to lay the foundation for that kind of an inherently self-dealing and I think corrupt act by suggesting that vengeful Biden administration bureaucrats might go after him.

So, you see him laying the foundation. And this is a president who, on the way into office, acted corruptly, and I think is determined on the way out to do the same.

BLITZER: In 2018, the president said -- and I'm quoting him now -- "I have the absolute right to pardon myself."

Some of his allies are actually pushing that he do just that. Can he go ahead and pardon himself before he leaves office?

SCHIFF: Well, he can try. The question is, will it be null and void? And I think the answer is yes.

He can say, I hereby pardon myself. But if he is brought up on federal charges -- and that's how that would be tested -- it would ultimately be decided by the Supreme Court. Are you allowed to be the judge of your own case? Is the president effectively above the law?

And I think any court should resolve that and would resolve that by saying, no, the pardon power does not allow a president to self- pardon, because to do so would make the Constitution a suicide pact. It would effectively undermine so many other provisions of the Constitution, including the one that requires the president to faithfully execute the laws.

But it hasn't been tried before because we haven't had a president corrupt enough to try it before. So, we will have to wait and see whether it gets tested in court if the president goes in that direction.

BLITZER: The White House, Congressman, wouldn't say today if President Trump has confidence in the attorney general of the United States, Bill Barr, after Barr debunked the president's election fraud claims.

What does that tell you?

SCHIFF: Well, I think the attorney general answered a question that many of us had, which is, there no line he is willing to cross to carry water for the president?

And, apparently, there was a line. And that was, the attorney general was not going to join completely fallacious claims of massive fraud following our election. Now, he is willing to do other things that are inappropriate and political and partisan, like this secret appointment of Durham as a special counsel, in an effort, I guess, to placate any members of the base that he will alienate by making the statement he did about the elections.

But, nonetheless, I think it tells you that the circle around the president that is willing to continue to engage in these monstrously false claims of fraud is a dwindling number of people.

BLITZER: And, as I pointed out yesterday, and I think it's very significant -- I will point it out again -- Barr actually said, it's not just the Department of Justice that found no evidence of widespread fraud in the election, but it's also the Department of Homeland Security, which investigated, found no evidence of widespread fraud either.

Before I let you go, Congressman, the House speaker, Nancy Pelosi, now wants COVID relief talks based on this $908 billion proposal put out by a bipartisan group of senators.

Does that proposal, do you believe, stand a real chance? And if it -- if you can't reach a deal, how do you explain to the millions of Americans out there who are about to lose unemployment benefits, might be kicked out of their homes, might not have enough money to put food on the table, how do you explain to them the urgent need to get money and get relief to them right now?

SCHIFF: Well, I think it does stand a very good chance of becoming a part of the government funding package to keep the government open that we have to take up within the next two weeks.

I hope and pray that we do pass a relief package that is based on what's set out in that bipartisan compromise.

And how you explain if Congress doesn't, well, that will be something that Mitch McConnell will have to explain to the country, because, right now, he is the number one impediment to getting to a deal.

And so the Democratic leadership has compromised by essentially agreeing to start from a blueprint that's less than half of what we had asked for. McConnell should be willing to do at least double of what he started out with, and then we'd have a deal.

But we will have to see whether McConnell wants to put a lump of coal in people's stocking this year. The reality is, Wolf, millions of Americans can't wait.

BLITZER: Yes.

SCHIFF: Millions of businesses will disappear and not reemerge next year if we don't help them now.

BLITZER: Yes, these stakes right now are so, so enormous.

Congressman Schiff, as usual, thanks so much for joining us.

SCHIFF: Thank you, Wolf.

BLITZER: Just ahead: a dire new warning that the next few months here in the United States could be the most difficult time in U.S. health history.

Plus: Britain approves one of the new coronavirus vaccines, and people may be getting their first shots in the next few days.

[18:25:04]

We will talk about that, all of that, and much more. The head of the National Institutes of Health, Dr. Francis Collins, there you see him. He's standing by live.

We have lots to discuss. We will when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: We're following breaking pandemic news, almost 100,000 Americans now hospitalized with COVID-19.

[18:30:01]

That's a new record. And that has the head of the CDC now warning that the next three months here in the United States will be, quote, the most difficult time in the public health history of the nation.

CNN'S Nick Watt has more from Los Angeles.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NICK WATT, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): A global first. The Brits just authorized the Pfizer/BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine, they might start vaccinating people next week.

UGUR SAHIN, CEO, BIONTECH: We believe that it is ready the start of the end of the pandemic.

WATT: December 10th, an FDA panel meets. U.S. authorization could come within days, and then --

GEN. GUSTAVE PERNA, COO, OPERATION WARP SPEED: Distribution to the American people becomes immediate within 24 hours.

GOV. ANDREW CUOMO (D-NY): We expect if all safety and efficacy approvals are granted, those doses will arrive on December 15th.

WATT: Moderna's vaccine is about a week behind. The plan, vaccinate 20 million Americans in December, 30 million in January, 50 million in February, by March 1st --

MONCEF SLAOUI, CHIEF ADVISOR, OPERATION WARP SPEED: We will have potentially immunized a 100 million people, which is really more or less the size of the significant at-risk population.

WATT: Refrigerators are ready at airports and hospitals across the country. Pfizer's vaccine must be stored at minus 103 degrees Fahrenheit.

First in line for the limited supply, medical personnel and residents of long-term care facilities. The CDC advisory panel just made that call.

DR. AMY COMPTON-PHILLIPS, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: We can do those via mass immunization events. We can't use mass immunization events for every person in the U.S.

WATT: And it's two doses, not easy, going to take time, yes, this could be the start of the end, but it is not the end.

Tuesday, 2,597 lives reported lost in this country, the second highest total since all this began.

DR. ROBERT REDFIELD, DIRECTOR, U.S. CENTERS FOR DISEASE CONTROL AND PREVENTION: December and January and February are going to be rough times. I actually believe they're going to be the most difficult time in the public health history of this nation.

WATT: Nearly 100,000 Americans are now hospitalized, an all-time high.

DR. SHANNON TAPIA, GERIATRICIAN: We might not show it if we're interacting with you, but it's so hard. WATT: Some hospitals now maxed out.

DR. JASON MITCHELL, CHIEF MEDICAL OFFICER, PRESBYTERIAN HEALTHCARE SERVICES ALBUQUERQUE: We really are truly out of beds and it's not just the Intensive Care Unit, it's all the medical beds as well.

WATT: How, why did we get here? Well in, part --

REDFIELD: This nation was severely underprepared for this pandemic. I think we have to call it the way it is.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WATT (on camera): Okay. And another reason we're in this mess, not enough people are just willing to do the right thing. The CDC just re- upped their Thanksgiving advice for Christmas. Don't travel, stay home. Let's see if more people listen this time around. They also just dropped the recommended quarantine period after a close contact from 14 days to ten days or just seven days if you get a negative test, the hope that that might make people comply. Wolf?

BLITZER: The hope. All right, let's hope. Nick Watt reporting for us, thanks very much.

Joining us now, Dr. Francis Collins, the Director of the National Institutes of Health. Dr. Collins, thank you so much for joining us. Thanks for everything you and your colleagues are doing. You're saving lives.

As you just heard the CDC director, Dr. Robert Redfield, a man you know, he says the next three months here in the U.S. could be the most difficult time our country's public health system has ever seen. What do federal and state leaders need to be doing right now to save thousands, maybe tens of thousands of lives in the coming months?

DR. FRANCIS COLLINS, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTES OF HEALTH: Well, he's right that we're facing what could be the darkest part of this very dark experience with COVID-19. You can see across the country now the incidence of new cases going up. And it's not just in some parts, it's pretty much everywhere.

A month ago, we were looking particularly at the Midwest, but now look at the coast, look at the Sun Belt again, look at the mid-Atlantic. Everywhere you're tracking cases, the numbers are rising. And, of course, we've just had Thanksgiving holidays and a lot of people went ahead and traveled, which is potentially of considerable risk.

And we are facing another holiday in December, and it's likely that unless really major efforts are to push harder with the public health measures, we could be facing the kind of circumstance that we really hoped not to, where many hospitals just run out of capabilities to take care of all the sick patients.

So what do we need to do? Well, you've heard that help is on the way. The vaccines are looking really good, and it's amazing to be able to say that just 10or 11 months after we first heard about this virus. But they're not going to reach everybody until this spring.

And, so meanwhile, if there was ever a time where people need to take it upon themselves to try not to be the super-spreader for all those vulnerable people that are still out there, we have to take this seriously.

[18:35:00]

This is the time to double down on the wearing of the mask when you go outside, the keeping that six-foot distance, not gathering indoors. That's the most dangerous thing you can do, washing your hands. I know people are tired of hearing those things, but that is our best hope. And it is not an invasion of your freedom any more than it is to wear a seat belt or not to smoke on an airplane. It's something we all do because it helps keep us safe.

And I hope and pray that with this very serious alarm now being sounded across the country, that people will take advantage of this moment to double down and play their part, and that's what we are going to have to do.

BLITZER: This is a life and death issue right now, even despite all the encouraging words about the vaccine.

The U.K., as you know, Dr. Collins, just approved the Pfizer vaccine with vaccinations starting there as early as next week. How soon do you expect the United States to follow suit with an emergency use authorization, allowing the vaccines to go forward in this country?

COLLINS: It will be very soon, assuming that the FDA and their very careful analysis of the Pfizer data agrees that it stands up to a stringent set of definitions about safety and efficacy. And I want the FDA to do their thing and to be extremely rigorous about it. They are the gold standard for regulatory oversight of this kind of thing. And the public needs that reassurance.

There will be a public meeting on December 10th of their advisory committee where all the data about the Pfizer safety and efficacy will be revealed for everybody to look at. And if that looks good, then very shortly after that, a matter of just a few days, the vaccine is likely to get approval by the FDA and then distribution will start the next day. The Warp Speed folks are ready to go. There's not going to be a delay.

Now, keep in mind, of course, that we don't have 340 million doses of this to get everybody started at once. There will be enough for about 20 million people to get immunized in December and as was just reported a minute ago by your leading information there, the CDC group, the advisory committee on immunization practices, has now recommended those first doses should go to health care providers as well as to elderly in places like nursing homes. So we already have a pretty good plan.

The Moderna vaccine is just one week behind in terms of the timetable. There will be an advisory committee public meeting about that on December 17th. And if all goes well, and most of us think it will, having seen a lot of the data ourselves, that will also be out there just a few days later.

So this is the month, if all is going the way we think it will, where, in the United States as well, immunizations will start.

BLITZER: This is so, so critical. You've got to convince the American public that it's safe.

As you know, the FDA commissioner, Stephen Hahn, a man you know, he was summoned to the White House this week. CNN has learned, Dr. Collins, that the president is actually frustrated that this approval hasn't been granted yet. Will that pressure have any impact on the timeline?

COLLINS: I don't believe so. I think at this point, the very strong commitment on the part of FDA, and I will say this applies also to NIH and to myself and all of my team, is that science is going to drive this process. The public needs to be reassured that there are no corners being cut here. That if these vaccines are judged safe and effective, it's because they are. And so that process will be going forward over the next few days. But we are getting very close to an answer.

The U.K. has a somewhat more relaxed approach to this. By the way, they have been a bit criticized today by the rest of Europe for the way in which they made such a quick decision about issuing an approval of this vaccine. It's just a little different. Again, the U.S. FDA is the gold standard for rigor and I think that's what the American public wants.

BLITZER: I think you're making an excellent point. I want you to stand by, Dr. Collins. Our viewers have tons of questions, critically important questions on what's going on right now. As I said, these are life and death questions. We'll continue our conversation right after this quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:40:00]

BLITZER: We're back with Dr. Francis Collins, the Director of the National Institutes of Health.

Dr. Collins, we've got a ton of questions from viewers out there. Let me go through some and you can give me some quick answers.

More than 13 million Americans, as you know, Dr. Collins, already have had this virus. Should they still get the vaccine? Where do they fall in line in terms of vaccination priorities?

COLLINS: They will be in line based on other criteria in terms of risks of serious illness. We don't know for sure that having had this illness means that you're not susceptible to getting it again, so those folks are, in fact, going to line up for vaccines. We already know that in the trials that have been run, there's a fair number of people who had positive antibody tests and they have done fine. So there's no reason not to, if you previously had the infection. BLITZER: Good answer. Moderna, as you know, Dr. Collins, has now started testing its vaccine among children ages 12 to 18. How important is that? Should kids get this vaccine?

COLLINS: Very definitely, we need to get there. And, again, so far, only down to about age 12 is under study, but we will wanting to, shortly after the first of the year, also find out does this work for younger children, because we know they can be infected and they can pass this along.

[18:45:03]

So that is the next sort of level of test that's going to need to be done in a therapeutic trial, a vaccine trial, in order to be sure that the vaccine is safe and effective in that group. We think it will be, but we want to be sure.

BLITZER: The former President, Barack Obama today said he will absolutely get the COVID vaccine when he can and he says he might even put the vaccination of him on video to encourage other people, supporters out there, to do -- to do the same thing.

Do you think that would be a good idea?

COLLINS: Well, I know there's a lot of hesitancy out there in terms of people not being quite sure about this vaccine. And anything we can do to try to convey a sense that this is something that's safe and effective and that people who look carefully at the data are rolling up their sleeves is a good thing. So I would hope all former presidents would be willing to join that. Certainly, Tony Fauci and I are prepared to roll up our sleeves when the time comes in case anybody wants to be sure that we're really confident in this.

Yeah, we're going to have a lot of work to do because right now there's still skepticism. I think it's based upon what has been a really difficult year with a lot of concerns about whether politics is driving this process and a lot of really strange conspiracy theories that have confused people.

We need to get the facts out there and we need to have reliable people saying, yeah, this is something you can trust.

BLITZER: If you and Dr. Fauci, both of you -- both -- you and Dr. Fauci, I've known you both for a long time. If you say it's safe and effective, I'll be happy to roll up my sleeve here in THE SITUATION ROOM, get the vaccine live on television if that might help convince some people that it's safe and effective.

What's the latest you can tell us, Dr. Collins, about the Biden transition right now? I understand you've had some conversations with some of the president-elect's team, is that right?

COLLINS: I have not. I'm keeping my focus on the job that I'm trying to do right now. I know that they have reached out to some of my staff to try to get a general sense about what's happening at NIH, both with COVID and with other things. And I suspect in due time, I'll have my chance also to talk to some of the transition team. They're working really hard.

BLITZER: I'm sure you know most of those people in any case. I understand NIH is looking for some volunteers to come to participate in some new COVID trials that you're about to undertake.

What can you tell us about that?

COLLINS: Well, thanks for asking, because we still do need people to take part in these trials. We have two vaccines that are about, we think, to get approved, but there are four others that are still in the works. And the more we have, the better, because the sooner we can get doses to people.

So we're counting on volunteers for that and those are our heroes who basically decided to take part in this.

So we just put up today a new way for people who are interested in both therapeutic trials, because we're looking for ways to treat the disease, so this is for people who tested positive, but also people who are looking to serve in vaccine trials. There would have been people who at the most -- at the time are healthy. And also people that might want to donate convalescent plasma, because we're still interested in that.

So here's the Web site, CombatCOVID, one word, CombatCOVID.hhs.gov. Let me say that again, CombatCOVID.hhs.gov.

And you can go there and find out what's happening in all of those areas and even what's happening in your neighborhood.

BLITZER: Well, thank you so much for everything you're doing, Dr. Francis Collins of NIH. We are so grateful to you. Thanks for joining us.

COLLINS: Glad to be with you, Wolf. Call me any time.

BLITZER: Thank you.

Just ahead, there's more breaking news. We're learning that Ivanka Trump, the president's daughter and advisor, was just deposed by investigators looking into the misuse of inaugural funds. We'll have details just ahead.

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[18:53:22]

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

BLITZER: We have breaking news coming into THE SITUATION ROOM about the president's daughter, Ivanka Trump.

Let's go to CNN's Kara Scannell.

What are you learning, Kara? KARA SCANNELL, CNN REPORTER: Yeah, Wolf. So, Ivanka Trump, we're learning, was deposed yesterday as part of a civil lawsuit brought by the D.C., the District of Columbia's attorney general. His name is Karl Racine.

His office had sued the Trump Organization and the president's inaugural committee in January, alleging that they had been involved in a scheme for a gross misuse of funds, more than a million dollars that was raised by the president's inaugural committee, that was spent at the Trump Hotel in Washington, D.C.

So, according to a new court filing, Ivanka Trump was deposed yesterday as part of the civil investigation. This investigation has taken depositions of other people close to the president's orbits in recent weeks, including Tom Barrack, one of his advisers, and who was the chairman of the president's inaugural committee. Now, as part of this lawsuit, they have alleged there was a gross misuse of the nonprofit funds that were raised. They have subpoenaed for documents the First Daily Melania Trump, according to this new court filing.

Now, this is just another headache and legal lawsuit that will follow the president and his family once they leave the White House. It is distinct, though, from any of the criminal investigations or any of the federal investigations that could fall under the window for the president is considering as many sources have told CNN about pardons for himself or his family. This is a state investigation and a civil investigation.

So any actions that the president could take would not impact this investigation. But it is something that will follow the family as it leaves the White House, Wolf.

[18:55:04]

BLITZER: Investigation by authorities here in the District of Columbia, not the federal government.

All right, Kara. Good reporting as usual. Kara Scannell, thank you very much.

And we'll have more news just ahead.

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BLITZER: Finally, our nightly tribute to victims of the coronavirus pandemic.

Carol Wilson of Ohio was 84 years old, a loving mother of four children, 8 grand children, and 5 great grandchildren. Carol loved nature and peanut butter, especially Reese's cups.

Dr. Anjali Verma of New Jersey was 63, a beloved wife and mother of two daughters. Originally from India, Dr. Verma worked for 40 years saving hundreds of children's lives.

May they rest in peace and may their memories be a blessing. "ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT" starts right now.