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The Situation Room

CDC Vaccine Advisers Vote To Recommend Pfizer/BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine In The U.S.; Trump Raised Prospect Of Firing A.G. Barr In Meeting Friday; Biden Fills Cabinet With Former Obama Officials; Supreme Court Rejects Trump's And Texas' Bid To Overturn Election; Vaccine Distribution In Rural America: An ICY Logistical Challenge; FDA Authorizes Pfizer/BioNTech COVID Vaccine Distribution In U.S. Aired 8-9p ET

Aired December 12, 2020 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[20:00:00]

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Welcome to our viewers here in the United States and around the world him. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. This is a special edition of THE SITUATION ROOM.

Right now, this historic moment when the scientific community agrees that the United States is taking the first real steps toward ending the coronavirus pandemic. On the desk of the CDC director right now, the final clearance for a now authorized vaccine to make its way into the American public. When he signs it, and we're told it could be any moment now, the vaccine goes. This is a truly a historic moment. And it cannot happen soon enough.

More horrific milestones reached today in the United States, a record number of hospitalizations. More than 108,000 Americans, 108,000 Americans are in hospitals suffering from COVID right now, the 11th day in a row breaking the record for hospitalization, and the U.S. also surpassing 16 million confirmed cases of coronavirus. It took just four days to add one million cases here in the United States. This map, by the way, showing where infections are highest, where most people are getting sick.

So the next thing we're told to expect from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, what we're waiting for right now, and, once again, it could happen at any moment, is the starting gun. That's when the FDA's newly authorized coronavirus vaccine will formally be allowed to start moving.

Let's get to CNN's Dianne Gallagher, she is in Grand Rapids, Michigan, a place that will be very important to the distribution process when it finally begins. Dianne, show us how this massive effort to get millions and millions of doses of vaccines -- of vaccine out there will actually begin to get off the ground.

DIANNE GALLAGHER, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: And so, Wolf, two things that we've seen time and time again in the fight against COVID are going to be necessary here, and that's the fact that there is, A, very little room for error, and, B, an intense collaborative effort.

The logistics of getting this vaccine from Pfizer to all of the different hospitals, medical communities, government agencies takes several steps. Once they get that green light, they can then begin taking the vaccine with trucks to different airports or other locations to then deploy them out to other places.

Now, the airport I'm at here, Ford Airport, in Grand Rapids, Michigan, has been preparing for about a month to potentially be the site where up to a billion doses of that Pfizer vaccine could be deployed from. And part of that is the simple proximity to the Pfizer location, about 45 minutes down the road, but it's also for other reasons like the fact that they have a 10,000-foot runway and cargo space to help with the sheer bulk of vaccine that is coming.

Now, two of those carriers, UPS and FedEx, Wolf, have both talked about the fact that there's so little room for error here in a very complicated process, that they put in extra provisions, including making sure they have on-site teams that can track things and special GPS and Bluetooth monitoring for each of these vaccine shipments. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RICHARD SMITH, REGIONAL PRESIDENT OF THE AMERICANS AND EXECUTIVE VP, FEDEX: The monitoring and tracking and positive control of these shipments and knowing where they are in our network at all times is far more important and we've deployed some new technology for that as well.

ANA CABRERA, CNN ANCHOR: What kind of new technology?

SMITH: Well, I'm glad you asked because I brought it with me. This is our SenseAware I.D. Bluetooth low energy. It's a patented Bluetooth low energy tag and solution. We've lit up our entire network to read these tags. We pick up our packages, our carriers will affix these to every box in a pouch. And so we will be able to know where they are at all times.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GALLAGHER: And that real-time information of where those shipments are is critical because if there are any sort of delays related to weather or related to traffic or something like that, the companies need to know that right away because of the sensitivities with these vaccines.

[20:05:02]

We have talked over and over again about the extreme cold they need to be kept in, the roughly negative 100 degrees Fahrenheit, packing all that dry ice, that's going to be important, Wolf, for them to pay attention to. The people who work at the airport here say that they feel extreme pride in being able to potentially be able to help deploy this vaccine to those who need it most.

BLITZER: Dianne Gallagher in Grand Rapids, Michigan, for us, thank you very much.

Joining us now is CNN Medical Analyst Dr. Seema Yasmin and Dr. Jeremy Faust, Emergency Physician at Brigham and Women's Hospital.

Dr. Faust, we know that frontline medical workers are among the first in line for the vaccine, along with people in long-term care settings. But if you don't fit those two categories and you don't have underlying medical conditions, how long will it be -- and I get this question all the time -- how long before you might get vaccinated?

DR. JEREMY FAUST, EMERGENCY PHYSICIAN, BRIGHAM AND WOMAN'S HOSPITAL: It could be months, Wolf. And the most important thing to know though is that until you have the vaccine, you're not protected, we're not going to herd immunity anytime soon. And also, even though I expect to be vaccinated sometime this month perhaps, I have to make sure that I'm careful, because I don't immediately get protection.

It's about a week after the first dose that you have some protection and then a second dose of the vaccine, three weeks later, another seven to ten days, that's when you really start to see the maximum effect. So I want people to know, we have to be patient to get the vaccine. And then once we get it, we then still have to wait. I know waiting has been so difficult but we're close and I want to do this correctly.

BLITZER: Yes, we certainly do. You know, Dr. Yasmin, given how fast this vaccine was developed and approved for emergency use, some people understandably are concerned. It didn't get necessarily the unanimous support that either the FDA or the CDC advisory committees, 11 members of the advisory committee voted in favor, 3 recused themselves. So is there serious cause for concern from your perspective?

DR. SEEMA YASMIN, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: I don't believe so, Wolf. And I think it's really fair when people are asking, well, hold on, you told us on average it takes ten years to develop a vaccine, why should we trust something develop in ten months, fair question. But, actually, the real question is why does it normally take us ten years to develop a vaccine.

It tends that a lot has to do with the bureaucracy, it's to do with the fighting for funding and prioritization. So this amazing scientific achievement is really proof that when there's global collaboration, when there's billions of dollars spun out into planning to end a disease, it can be done.

But the other thing that's important to remember is this did not just happen in ten months. And I know that sounds strange because the coronavirus is new. But that group at the University of Oxford has actually been working for years on this exact situation, on developing a vaccine platform that's ready to go the minute disease X, a new disease caused by a novel virus emerges. So even though it looks like it's happened in ten months, actually, this has been decades in the making.

And in the last few months, these clinical trials have been happening, safety has not been cut, corners have not been cut. There still have been real diligence and attention to detail. And that's why when I'm eligible, I'll be rolling out my sleeve and ahead of the line to try to get this vaccine.

BLITZER: Yes, Dr. Faust, who shouldn't be getting this vaccine right now based on all of the information we have?

FAUST: The trials were limited because we have to be very clear about control groups versus if you don't get the vaccine itself. So right now, we know that younger children, for example, there's a whole question of how young, that's the big issue right now.

The interesting thing is that the mRNA vaccine, these are not live viruses. These are not even killed virus. It's actually one piece of the virus that the vaccine tricks our body to making just one of the 29 proteins that makes up the coronavirus, SARS-Cov2.

So, overall, I think the safety profile for this is going to be expanded rapidly for the moment. Obviously, there's a whole hierarchy of who has to get it in terms of risk and there are a few contraindication. The biggest contraindication, and your best contraindication means you shouldn't get it is if you have a real history of anaphylactic shock from any ingredients, really rare but that's the biggie.

And I think as time goes on, we're going to going to see the sphere, the circle of who can take this vaccine wide and very, very rapidly.

BLITZER: So, if you walk around, Dr. Yasmin, with an EpiPen, if you're allergic peanuts or eggs or something like that, should you be careful in getting this vaccine? And what about pregnant women?

YASMIN: So, the U.K. authorities, if, initially, once they saw those two cases of allergic reactions in U.K. health workers who perceive the vaccine, said anyone that had a serious history of allergic reactions, enough that they did carry around an EpiPen, including allergic reactions to food and to medicines and to previous vaccines should not get vaccinated.

However, they then came back and said, look, we're going to tweak that. If people have food allergies and they're not so severe, they don't carry around an EpiPen, then we think that they can go ahead and get it.

[20:10:01]

The message here though, really, Wolf, is to talk to health care providers, see where you are in the prioritization groups, because the last thing that we need is people inundating healthcare centers turning up trying to get vaccinated. There are very limited supplies at the moment. It's been very carefully prioritized for those frontline health care workers and people who are older and living longer care facilities.

So we need -- the messaging in the U.K. has been is to wait for the call to come to you. Don't call and try and get the vaccine ahead of time. This is the biggest vaccination campaign in human history. The logistical challenges are not to be over -- cannot be overstated. And so people have to wait until it's their time in the line.

BLITZER: What about pregnant women?

YASMIN: So, at the moment, the guidance is -- actually, I'm not too sure. Jeremy, do you -- are you aware of the rules around pregnant women?

FAUST: The data from the FDA has, had just a little bit of information about how many people were in the trial after the first dose. They actually excluded pregnant patients on the first dose. But you came back for the second dose, they check you again, and they found a few patients had become pregnant between the first and second doses and didn't see a problem. Whether or not that means that it's ready for primetime for pregnant patient, I think, is a moving target.

But I think the early sign is that it's going to be safe but I don't think if that recommendation has been explicit made yet. But correct me if I'm wrong.

BLITZER: The authorization, Dr. Yasmin, is for individuals 16 years and older. So if you're under 16, if your 10 or 12 or 14, don't get the vaccine, is that right?

YASMIN: That's right. And, in fact, when you were talking earlier, Wolf, about there not being a unanimous agreement from those independent scientists about approving the vaccine for emergency use authorization, we don't know exactly why some folks voted no, but we have heard from some sources that it was to do with this disagreement about the 16 to 17-year age group.

But at the moment, the EUA is for people over the age of 16. That means anyone younger than that right now is not eligible to receive this vaccine. This is changing by the minute. That's why I threw that question to Jeremy about the pregnant women. So we are watching this really closely to see what new data is emerges, what new analysis we can learn from and then slowly we'll start building an understanding of who else could received this vaccine.

BLITZER: I know, Dr. Yasmin, Dr. Faust, I'm -- we're all anxious to get this vaccine. And we're willing to do so very quickly. Let's wait the line, and when our turn comes will get to both of you. Thanks for everything you're doing. We are so grateful. I appreciate it very much.

YASMIN: Thank you.

BLITZER: Meanwhile, there's some new CNN reporting out right now. That says President Trump is discussing firing, yes, firing, even at this late moment with only 38 or 39 days to go in office, another key member of his cabinet. We have details. We'll be right back.

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[20:15:00]

BLITZER: On this monumental Saturday night in the coronavirus battle here in the United States, the turning point for the best of science and the worst of the pandemic's wrath in this country, the president of the United States is otherwise preoccupied.

Boris Sanchez is joining us from the White House right now. So, Boris, tell us where the president's focus has been these last several hours.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Wolf. A relatively light day on the president's schedule, he did visit the Army-Navy game, leaving just before halftime returning to the White House. Before that, when he was departing the White House, he actually circled in Marine One over downtown D.C., where a rather large crowd of the president's supporters gathered to contest the results of the 2020 election.

As you know, Wolf, the president has been continuously involved in this myth making that the 2020 election was stolen from him, continuing to spread false claims. And now, those that are refusing to go along with his fantasy are drawing his ire, including the attorney general, Bill Barr.

CNN is learning that behind closed door, President Trump has repeatedly spoken with aides about potentially firing the attorney general. This coming on the heels of news that Bill Barr did not reveal that there's an ongoing investigation into President-elect Joe Biden's son, Hunter, before the 2020 election.

You recall, the president mounted a very public campaign trying to get the DOJ to announce an investigation into Joe and Hunter Biden before November 3rd. That didn't happen. Bill Barr followed precedent and the policy of DOJ, which is not to announce any kind of investigation into candidates or their loved ones around election time.

In this case Bill Barr is really upsetting the president not only with this Biden news but also because, as we know, last week, he told the Associated Press that there was no evidence of widespread election fraud, further infuriating the president.

A source familiar with the situation actually had an interesting take that they shared with CNN's Jamie Gangel. Here is a quote from that source. They write, quote, Bill Barr cannot be intimidated by Trump. That is the real story. None of this matters. It's the deposed king ranting irrelevant to the course of justice and to Trump's election loss.

Notably, soon after Barr made those comments about no evidence of wide spread election fraud and the president was encouraged by close aides not to fire Barr so close to him leaving office on January 20th, it appears the president is still considering it. Sources close to Barr have told CNN that he has contemplated resigning. He is declining to do so unless he thinks that the president actually would fire him. Wolf?

BLITZER: All right, Boris, thank you. Boris Sanchez, reporting important news from Jamie Gangel, thanks to her as well.

Meanwhile, President Trump still stewing over the latest and biggest legal defeat he's faced yet after the U.S. Supreme Court last night rejected the case brought by Texas that aim to overturn the election results in four states Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Georgia and Michigan.

[20:20:02]

Several officials from those states offered blistering rebukes to the lawsuit, including my next guest.

I'm joined by Michigan's attorney general, Dana Nessel. Attorney General Nessel, thank you so much for joining us.

Let's start with the brief you filed before the U.S. Supreme Court, and it reads among other things as follows. The election in Michigan is over, Texas comes as a stranger to this matter and should not be heard here.

It seems the justices of the U.S. Supreme Court, including the three justices nominated by President Trump himself, they agreed with you. They said this order, this effort is -- they're denying it for what they call a lack of standing under Article 3 of the U.S. Constitution. So what's your reaction, Attorney General, to this ruling?

DANA NESSEL (D), MICHIGAN ATTORNEY GENERAL: Well, obviously, I'm relieved that the 5.5 million voters who voted in my state were not disenfranchised and that the 10 million people in my state will be properly represented in the Electoral College.

But, you know, I remain saddened that we had to fight this battle in the first place and such a ridiculous lawsuit was filed by a state attorney general and that it was supported by another 18 attorneys general and I think 128 representatives in Congress, not to mention 15 members of my own state legislature who wanted to circumvent the voters in their state who voted in their own elections. So it's not really a moment of joy for me. It's really a moment of sadness that we're even at that point.

BLITZER: Yes, we even have to discuss this at all.

Do you feel though, Attorney General, that the fight over the election here in the United States is now over and you can relax and turn to other issues?

NESSEL: No. I wish that were the case but, unfortunately, it seems not to be. I spent the day watching as, I would say, malcontents all over social media and other -- I hesitate to call them news channels because they're really propaganda channels, it's not factually information that they're disseminating, but they are, you know, spreading disinformation and it creates a greater undermining of our elections.

So I've been seen all day long. We know that there are proceedings in Antrim County right now that the state is also involved in. and I'm foreseeing there's going to be some trouble when the slate of electors votes on Monday in Lansing.

So I wish I could say it was over but it seems like it's just never over. And I don't feel like I can take a breath until January 20th when Joe Biden takes the oath of office.

BLITZER: As you know, Attorney General, and this is so disturbing, a group of armed protesters recently gathered outside the home of your secretary of state, Jocelyn Benson. Are you concerned about the rising incidents of threats that election officials, distinguished election officials, Democrats and Republicans, are receiving in various states right now, not just in Michigan?

NESSEL: Absolutely. It's a tremendous concern. And I would to say this. For the threats that all of our -- you know, we have almost 1,600 local clerks, between local clerks and county clerks, and many of them, whether they're Democrats or Republicans, are being threatened right now.

So I foresee a time where we can't get people to run for these offices because it's simply not worth it if you're going to have life threaten. And it really undermines the lynchpin of the democracy when that occurs.

BLITZER: Earlier this week, and this is also so disturbing, the Arizona GOP actually suggested that supporters should be willing to die for their cause after the Supreme Court ruling. The chairman of the Texas GOP then flouted secession, saying this, and let me read to you. Perhaps law-abiding states should bond together and form a union of states that will abide by the Constitution.

What is going on in our country right now?

NESSEL: I don't know, and it's very upsetting, obviously. What they're suggesting would be the weirdest, most gerrymandered looking country I could possibly imagine, because I don't know how you fit New York and California into one blue country. But why are we talking about this at all, unfortunately? You know what, this is a time of unity where we should be coming together behind our new president.

And for those who were dissatisfied with the results, do what Democrats did at 2016. You know, Democrats organized. They had lawful protests that were peaceful protests and they developed a ground game where they had great wins, the next election cycle in 2018, when I was elected. But this year is so unpatriotic, it show un-American and it is so dangerous to our democracy.

BLITZER: At least the U.S. Supreme Court 24 hours ago did the right thing and dismissed this entire motion.

[20:25:01]

Michigan Attorney General Dana Nessel, thank you so much for joining us. Stay safe out there. We'll stay in touch with you.

NESSEL: Thanks for having me, Wolf.

BLITZER: And I'll be anchoring special live coverage of the Electoral College vote on Monday starting at noon Eastern right here on CNN. Our coverage on CNN of the Electoral College activities all day on Monday, that begins 9:00 A.M. Eastern. Meanwhile, the U.S. has broken another record for the number of hospitalizations due to the coronavirus. And President-elect Biden will become president in just 39 days. There is new information on the transition. We'll check in when we come back.

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[20:30:08]

BLITZER: Thirty-nine days till the inauguration of President-elect Joe Biden. But as the pandemic rages, so does the current president. It's clear this will be very different from past transfers of power here in the United States.

In the meantime, the President-elect continues to make key administration picks. let's go to CNN's Arlette Saenz. She's joining us from Wilmington, Delaware right now. We're learning, Arlette, of at least what one potential cabinet pick who turned down a job, but what can you tell us about that?

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wel1, Wolf, president-elect Biden is expected to name more of his cabinet picks this coming week. But as you said, there is one person, we are learning, who has turned down an offer to serve in the Biden administration.

And a spokesperson for Atlanta Mayor Keisha Lance Bottoms, says that she was offered a position in Biden's cabinet, but decided to turn it down.

Now, Bottoms was one of Biden's earliest supporters during the presidential campaign. And she was thought to be under consideration to lead the Small Business Administration. Now, we do not know which position specifically she decided not to pursue, but she will not be a part of this cabinet at this moment.

But there are a lot -- just a little over half a dozen positions that Biden still needs to fill in his cabinet, including his choice for attorney general, that's one of the major spots still outstanding, and the President-elect is hoping to have his cabinet rounded out by the Christmas holiday.

BLITZER: Well, let's -- that would be important. With news tonight, Arlette, that vaccines are starting to ship out as early as tomorrow. Is there any word on when President-elect Biden will get his first shot? He says he's ready to get one.

SAENZ: Well, we don't have any indication just yet of how soon the president-elect might get this vaccination. I tried to ask him that yesterday, but he either didn't hear or just chose not to respond. But you did hear the President-elect trying to instill public confidence in this vaccine, saying that it's been conducted and developed without political influence.

And he understands that it's going to be important for people to trust -- that this vaccine is safe to take. You know, just a short while ago on CNN, chief medical adviser to President George W. Bush, Dr. Jonathan Reiner said that the President-elect and the Vice President- elect should be getting that shot in public on camera on Monday to show that that confidence is there in that vaccine.

So, we will see how soon the president-elect and his doctor and his team to decide to do that as they're trying to show Americans that this is a vaccine that they can trust in.

BLITZER: Yes, that's an important point. And that would be very, very significant. Arlette, thank you very, very much for your good reporting.

Despite the promising news that vaccines will soon start rolling out for Americans, the coronavirus is claiming thousands and thousands of American lives every day. Yesterday, by the way, was the highest single day death toll yet with more than 3,300, 3,300 U.S. deaths reported, according to data from the Johns Hopkins University.

Dr. Celine Gounder is on the Biden COVID-19 advisory board. She's joining us right now. Dr. Gounder, thanks so much for everything you're doing. Thanks for joining us. Is the Biden team being looped in on all the decisions regarding the roll up of this vaccine with 39 days to go into transition?

CELINE GOUNDER, BIDEN COVID-19 ADVISORY BOARD MEMBER: Well, look, this is a race a marathon. We are being passed the baton, but there's a lot that we're having to be read into. So we're trying on our end, as I think the administration, current administration, is trying to do to make this process go as smoothly as possible.

BLITZER: Does your Biden advisory board, Dr. Gounder, support the accelerated emergency use authorization for this Pfizer vaccine?

GOUNDER: We support the FDA's emergency use authorization for the Pfizer vaccine. We believe that the process has not been corrupted by outside political influence. We think that this process has unfolded as it would normally. And that the scientific vetting has been thorough here.

So, we feel confident that in the issuance of an emergency use authorization, that the FDA truly is confident that this is a safe and effective vaccine. And I personally would be ready and willing to get the vaccine in the next couple weeks.

BLITZER: Yes. I think all of us are ready for that.

How important you heard Arlette's reporting from Wilmington -- how important Dr. Gounder would it be for the president-elect and the Vice President-elect for that matter to be publicly shown, getting those shots?

GOUNDER: Well, they both had comments at a recent press conference. It might have been about a week ago now that they would, as long as Dr. Fauci agrees that this is a safe and effective vaccine, that they would be vaccinated in front of cameras, in front of video and photographers to demonstrate to the American public that they felt confident in the process leading up to the development approval of the vaccine and also in the vaccine itself.

[20:35:21]

BLITZER: How do you convince skeptics out there who are concerned, they say, you know, it took -- they went too fast. We don't know all the results, that they're reluctant to go ahead and get the two shots that you need, how do you convince them that this is the right thing to do that it could save lives?

GOUNDER: Well, I think first of all, it's important to understand that this is a vaccine technology that has actually been in the work for years, not just since the onset of the coronavirus pandemic. This is a technology that was starting to be developed with the SARS epidemic.

So, this is going back to the early 2000s. So, this has been in the works for 20 years. They essentially customized it for coronavirus. And so, I feel pretty confident actually in this particular technology.

BLITZER: And do you see any major differences in your -- the Biden Advisory Council, all the experts that have been brought in together with you Dr. Vivek Murthy, for example, I know that Dr. Fauci is going to stay on and work together with you guys.

But are there any significant differences between the outgoing coronavirus team in the Trump administration and the incoming Biden team?

GOUNDER: Well, I think the current team is very much focused on the science. We are a group of doctors and scientists, some of us see patients like myself, in addition to being scientists. And so, we really look at it through that lens. We're not politicians, you know, we're not business people. And so, we're really just focused on providing the best public health and scientific guidance.

BLITZER: And we're going to be counting on all of you in 39 days, because this problem, obviously, despite the vaccine, and it's very encouraging that this vaccine is rolling out right now. This virus is going to be with us sadly, for much of next year, there's no doubt about that.

Dr. Gounder, thank you so much for joining us, and good luck.

GOUNDER: Thank you.

BLITZER: Tonight, by the way, after THE SITUATION ROOM, you can watch the new CNN film "Presidents in Waiting," a very personal look at the role of the vice president. That's at 10:00 p.m. Eastern right here on CNN.

So, how will history remember the Republicans will actually humor the president and his absurd effort to try to overturn the results of this election? Our next guest has a word for them. That word cowards. We'll explain why when we come back.

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BLITZER: President Trump is not alone in his effort to try to overturn the results of the 2020 presidential election here in the United States. The vast majority of Republicans in Congress actually lined up behind him, including at least 126 who joined has now failed U.S. Supreme Court case with Texas. GOP lawmakers clearly see a short-term benefit to joining the president in this legal fight. But will it cost them in the long run?

Let's discuss with our senior political commentator, the host of The Axe Files podcast, David Axelrod. David, thanks so much for joining us.

And I noticed this week on CNN, you wrote this, and let me -- let me quote from what you wrote, "History will score in the cowards who meekly complied with Trump's scheme to tarnish and overturn the election." End quote. That may be the case.

But what about the short term? Do you see any of these Republicans paying a political price?

DAVID AXELROD, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, look, I think the reason that they have lined up against all evidence most of them know how frivolous the lawsuit was that the attorney general of Texas file, but Trump demanded that members of the House join Mike Johnson, a member from Louisiana sent a note around to all the members saying the President will be, you know -- the President is eager to see who signs up.

And I think there was an implicit threat there that if they didn't, that he would be on the bad list. And he may be running primary candidates against them in two years, so they did it for survival, as much as anything else.

And you know, look, I think long-term, this has been a really damaging five weeks for our democracy. It is very clear what happened in this election, court after court after court, has thrown out these frivolous lawsuits by the President and his supporters, because there simply is no evidence to support what he's telling the American people.

But what is really dismaying is that 70 or 80 percent of Republicans now believe what he is saying that somehow there was something fraudulent about this election. And I think these members of the House are responding to that as well.

But, Wolf, the other part of my piece that I think is really important, is, you know, the Presidents as we'll see who's courageous enough to do what's right -- meaning what to do what he wants, but we've seen real courage.

We've seen Republicans and Democrats across this country, secretaries of state election authorities who have done their duty, even in the face of threats from the president, even in the threats -- in the face of threats to their own personal safety or the safety of their families. They've done their duty and they've counted the votes, and they've recounted them, and they've certified them.

The governors who have certified the votes, the President took shots at two of them. Today, Governor Ducey in Arizona and Kemp in Georgia, they campaigned vigorously for the president, but they stood up for the vote of the people in their state and said this was the result. And we should not forget that. We should not forget the thousands of people who counted the votes, even with mobs outside, in some cases, howling their protests and they did their job.

[20:45:06]

And then the judges themselves and the Justices of the Supreme Court Outside, in some cases, howling their protests, and they did their job and then the judges themselves and the Justices of the Supreme Court. I'm sure the President was dismayed when the three justices he appointed, joined with others in dismissing these lawsuits because they understood that they were not going to overturn a vote of the people, you know, based on, on really no evidence.

And so, you know, there are -- there are -- there are cowards, and there are heroes in this story. And I think, ultimately, history is going to record who were the heroes and who were the cowards. But in the short run, the cowards did what they did, because they thought that it was in their own political interest. In the short term, they fear Donald Trump, even as he's been defeated, they fear what he might do in the future. And that's what's led them to this point.

BLITZER: There was 39 days to go until a Joe Biden becomes the President of the United States, and Donald Trump becomes the former president of the United States on Monday, the electoral college will sit, they will meet and they will report the results, the certified results from all 50 states and the District of Columbia, which showed that Biden has the electoral votes, he needs more than 270, 306, specifically to be elected president. Is there anything else, at all, David, that you think that the president, President Trump and his supporters can do to change this?

AXELROD: No, I don't think there's anything they can do to change it. I think Monday will be the final judgment on this, that doesn't mean that they won't continue to do what they're doing. Because I think the President is playing a different game here.

You know, it's not just about trying to stop the certification of Biden as the man who beat him, or avoiding the thing that he hates the most being called a loser. But he wants to persuade his supporters that this was stolen from not just him, but from them. And he wants to build his next chapter based on that, the resentment about what happened in this election.

So, I think he's going to continue to push his supporters. We've heard Jim Jordan, for example, say we ought to wage a floor fight in Congress, when the electoral vote comes up. I think you'll still see some bumps in the road along the way, not because it's going to overturn the outcome, but because it's a part of furthering the mission of the President, which is to persuade at least his base, that somehow something untoward happened, and not what really happened, which is he was rejected by a majority of voters in enough states, and certainly nationally, that he did not win reelection.

BLITZER: Yes. And as he's continuing this battle, even though it's going to fail, because he's raising a ton of money for future political campaigns --

AXELROD: 100 percent, absolutely.

BLITZER: He's going to raise more than 200 million already, probably raised another 100 million before he leaves office. And that money he'll be able to use over the next few years for basically what he wants in this political process.

David Axelrod, as usual, thanks so much for joining us.

AXELROD: Great to see you, Wolf.

BLITZER: All right. Thank you. We'll be right back. More news right after this.

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[20:50:42]

BLITZER: The next big challenge for the COVID vaccine here in the United States distributing it. That challenge made all the more difficult across vast rural areas of this country. That's where hospitals, clinics, and those important super cold freezers could be hundreds of miles away.

CNN's Omar Jimenez reports.

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OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): When the backdrop is windmills and open fields, you can see how getting a COVID-19 vaccine to actual people turns into a challenge.

It involves literally loading cold packs into a minivan that, eventually will be part of keeping this vital medicine cold as it travels tens, even hundreds of miles to clinics and hospitals that need them.

JESSE BREIDENBACH, SENIOR EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF PHARMACY, SANFORD HEALTH: If they will receive a ton allocation of vaccine, and so we plan for that accordingly and strategically placed freezers like this for region footprint.

JIMENEZ: At Sanford USD Medical Center in Sioux Falls, South Dakota, they're ready for whatever amount of vaccine they get.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's some sign, and then there are inner doors as well.

JESSE BREIDENBACH, SENIOR EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF PHARMACY, SANFORD HEALTH: And this is of the Pfizer vaccine?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is for the Pfizer vaccine.

JIMENEZ: Months ago, they bought these ultra-cold freezers, at least negative 70 degrees Celsius or negative 103 degrees Fahrenheit required for the Pfizer vaccine. Negative 20 degrees Celsius for Modernas.

Right now, the freezers are empty.

The Pfizer vaccine can only survive for up to five days in typical refrigeration.

BREIDENBACH: When we get orders from our clinics to distribute that vaccine, we'll pack it in coolers on ice, and then monitor that temperature to make sure, at that, point maintaining refrigerator temperature until it is given to the patient.

JIMENEZ: But the actual distribution is complicated. Sanford's coverage area encompasses more than 200,000 square miles over multiple states, that's almost comparable to the size of Texas, they have to rely on hubs that have the ultracold storage facilities in key regions of these states. And that's because each state gets its own allocation of the vaccine. So, Sanford can only take supplies across state lines, not the vaccine itself.

And then from the hubs, they transport just enough vaccine to even more remote locations to get people what they need, but not leave anything wasted in clinics or locations that can't store it properly.

[20:55:00]

DEAN WEBER, VICE PRESIDENT, CORPORATE SUPPLY CHAIN, SANFORD HEALTH: Our carrier network, you know, drives about 11,000 miles a day, delivering multiple times over many days to move the vaccine. We will continue to do that rather than moving big portions of vaccine to a small clinic or a critical access hospital.

JIMENEZ (on camera): What is the most difficult part about administering and distributing a vaccine in a rural setting versus a city setting?

KELLY HEFTI, VP OF NURSING AND CLINICAL SERVICES, SANFORD HEALTH: The geography itself, just the miles that separate us making sure the resources can reach all of those areas.

DR. JEREMY CAUWELS, CHIEF PHYSICIAN, SANFORD HEALTH: I think worrying about when you're going to give a vaccine within, you know, six days of taking it out of the freezer and within six hours of reconstituting it, is really something we haven't -- I don't think anybody has done before.

JIMENEZ: Omar Jimenez, CNN, Sioux Falls, South Dakota.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

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