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The Situation Room

Interview with Rep. Hakeem Jeffries (D-NY); GOP Identity Crisis; Biden Pushes Forward on Stimulus Package; Biden to Deploy About 1,000 Troops to Aid Vaccinations; New Biden Remarks on COVID-19 Relief Package; Acting Capitol Police Chief Pledges Significant Changes Based on Review on January 6 Insurrection. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired February 05, 2021 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[18:00:00]

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: This as President Biden is building his case for quick action, making it clear, clearer than ever, really, that he is prepared for Democrats to go it alone.

In a speech on the economy, the president offered his strongest criticism of Republicans who, in his words, either want to do nothing or not enough.

The White House, meanwhile, is citing a dismal new jobs report in defending its nearly $2 trillion package, the U.S. adding only 49,000 jobs in January, suggesting a very gloomy outlook for economic recovery here in the United States.

Let's go right to the White House.

Our chief White House correspondent, Kaitlan Collins, is joining us once again.

Kaitlan, the president's early hopes for a bipartisan relief bill, those hopes to appear to be fading.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: And he seems to be leaving in them in the past as well, Wolf, because now that both chambers of Congress have passed this budget resolution, that is paving the way for Democrats to keep moving forward with this bill, keep pushing it ahead.

And they are looking to move quickly, it seems like, because if you listen to House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, she says they are going to start crafting that legislation next week. They hope to get it completely passed by the end of the month. She said it would definitely be passed by the middle of March.

But, of course, those jobless benefits start to run out. That's that threat that the White House has referenced so much. But, Wolf, here's the catch. There are no Republicans on board right now. They are still opposed to this. And despite those calls for bipartisanship and invitations for Republicans to the White House, President Biden now appears ready to move on without them.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: But they're just not willing to go as far as I think we have to go.

COLLINS (voice-over): President Biden making clear tonight in his strongest terms yet that he won't wait for Republicans to pass his pandemic relief bill.

BIDEN: What Republicans have proposed is either to do nothing or not enough.

COLLINS: Days after sitting down with Senate Republicans in the Oval Office, Biden said he won't delay the bill in hopes of getting some of them on board.

BIDEN: If I have to choose between getting help right now to Americans who are hurting so badly and getting bogged down in a lengthy negotiation, that's an easy choice. I'm going to help the American people who are hurting now.

COLLINS: Biden said he was willing to limit which Americans would qualify for stimulus checks in order to appease moderates from both parties. But he said there is one thing he's not willing to budge on.

BIDEN: I'm not cutting the size of the checks. They're going to be $1,400, period. That's what the American people were promised.

COLLINS: However, it's still not clear which Americans will qualify for how much.

JEN PSAKI, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: There's an ongoing discussion about it. And it is an active discussion. The decision has -- a final conclusion has not been made.

COLLINS: After a Labor Department report said the U.S. added only 49,000 jobs in January, with just 6,000 of those being in the private sector, Biden pushed for Congress to vote quickly.

BIDEN: These aren't Democrats or Republicans. They're Americans, and they're suffering.

COLLINS: After a meeting in the Oval Office, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi set a two week timeline for getting the bill through the House and into the Senate's hands.

QUESTION: Can you guarantee that this will be done by March 15?

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): Absolutely, without any question, before then.

COLLINS: Before dawn on Friday, the Senate took another step toward getting the bill passed, as Vice President Kamala Harris cast her first tiebreaking vote amid a slim Democratic majority.

KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The vice president votes in the affirmative. COLLINS: Republicans have said Biden's proposal is far too large, but

so have some Democrats, including Barack Obama's former economic adviser, Larry Summers, who warned in an op-ed in "The Washington Post" that Biden was at risk of going too big, an assertion Biden's aides quickly rejected.

JARED BERNSTEIN, WHITE HOUSE COUNCIL OF ECONOMIC ADVISERS: Where Larry got something importantly wrong, by the way, is by suggesting that the administration was being dismissive of any inflation, potential inflationary pressures.

That's flat-out wrong.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COLLINS: And, Wolf, of course, it's only third week of Joe Biden's presidency. But he has just left the White House. He is going to Delaware for the weekend, where he's going to spend the next few days with the first lady.

You see there, that is his first flight as president on Air Force One, the first time he's been on that plane in a very long time, because, of course, when he was vice president, the president and the vice president famously do not fly on the same aircraft because of the concern about security and the line of the presidency.

So, there he is, his first time on Air Force One as president, a very short flight to Delaware, Wolf, but that's where he will be spending the next few days.

BLITZER: And he will watch the Super Bowl there Sunday night, like so many others.

All right, thanks very much for that, Kaitlan.

Let's go to the Republicans right now and all the ways that the former President Donald Trump is dividing the party just days before his second impeachment trial, just hours after one of his die-hard loyalists was booted from two House committees.

Our congressional correspondent, Ryan Nobles, is joining us.

Ryan, the GOP identity crisis continues to play out before our eyes.

RYAN NOBLES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's right, Wolf.

We're just a couple of days away from the former president's impeachment trial here in Congress. And after a tumultuous week on Capitol Hill, we are starting to get a glimpse about the future of the Republican Party.

[18:05:03]

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NOBLES (voice-over): Tonight, Republicans are searching for a path forward.

The day after a dramatic vote that stripped Georgia Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene of her committee assignments, Greene and many of her GOP House colleagues are maintaining their loyalty to former President Donald Trump.

REP. MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE (R-GA): Republican voters support him still. The party is his. It doesn't belong to anybody else.

NOBLES: But others in the GOP are not so sure, 11 House Republicans willing to go on record, voting with Democrats to kick Greene off her committees. This comes a day after the conference voted overwhelmingly to keep Liz Cheney, who supported Trump's impeachment, in her leadership post.

And it comes just a few days before the former president's second impeachment trial.

Congressman Fred Upton of Michigan, who voted to boot Greene from her committees, telling CNN the party needs to hold its own members to a higher standard.

REP. FRED UPTON (R-MI): At some point, you say, enough is enough. She was unapologetic. She was unremorseful. And it was pretty evident in her press conference.

NOBLES: In Nebraska, Senator Ben Sasse, who easily won reelection in the fall, is in the process of being censured by the state's Republican committee because of his criticism of Trump.

SEN. BEN SASSE (R-NE): You are welcome to censure me again. But let's be clear about why this is happening. It's because I still believe, as you used to, that politics isn't about the weird worship of one dude.

NOBLES: He isn't the only one facing heat at home. Illinois Congressman Adam Kinzinger was censured by the LaSalle County GOP, his home district, that chair saying Kinzinger's vote to impeach Trump was -- quote -- "contrary to the values of the party."

The big divide between the two sides of the GOP seems to only be growing. And Republicans like Greene are warning that those disloyal to Trump will soon face a reckoning.

GREENE: That really is a big betrayal. And that could cost us the majority in '22. People are very angry.

NOBLES: All this at a time when the focus on Trump is only growing, with his looming impeachment trial now just days away, CNN learning that, after the former president turned down a request to testify at his trial, Democrats are unlikely to issue a subpoena to force him to appear.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NOBLES: And late Friday, we learned that two Republican members of the House of Representatives were fined because they violated the new standards for passing through metal detectors outside the House chamber.

Andrew Clyde, a newly elected congressman from Georgia, and Louie Gohmert, a congressman from Texas, both fined $5,000 for going through the metal detectors outside the protocols that were set by House Speaker Nancy Pelosi. It shows, Wolf, that this speaker is not messing around when it comes to security in the House chamber.

BLITZER: Well, they shouldn't. That $5,000 fine will be deducted from their government paycheck.

All right, thanks very much, Ryan Nobles reporting.

Let's discuss this and more with our chief political analyst, Gloria Borger, our senior commentator the former Ohio Republican Governor John Kasich, and CNN political commentator Bakari Sellers. He's the author of the book "My Vanishing Country."

So, Gloria, what do you make of President Biden's political calculus right now, as he decides to, for all practical purposes, if necessary, go it alone on this COVID relief package, rather than trying to bring in some Republicans and cutting the bill down?

GLORIA BORGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: I think he's a new president who made a promise to the American people. And he's decided he's going to keep it.

And the line that we hear over and over again from the White House is that 74 percent of the American public supports his stimulus package. And I was talking to a senior adviser to the president the other day who said this to me: "Why are we going to let 50 people in D.C. decide what bipartisanship is? Washington, D.C.'s definition of bipartisanship is getting one member to cross the aisle."

They all remember how hard they worked on the stimulus package to get a few Republicans early on in the Obama administration, and that didn't help them get Obamacare through later on. So, I think they were stung by that. He's going to keep his promise. And he believes in what he's doing.

BLITZER: Governor Kasich, I remember when you were in the House. You were on the Budget Committee. You clearly, in recent days, have told us you want to see a bipartisan bill. Are you disappointed?

What does this decision by the president say about his priorities?

JOHN KASICH, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes.

Well, first of all, the $1.9 trillion number was not a campaign promise. And, secondly, it didn't come down from the mountain carried by Moses that $1.9 trillion was the exact number.

Here's what I would do if I were President Biden. I would say to those Republicans that have had made a proposal, $600 billion, that's obviously not going to be acceptable. I would say, OK, folks, well, how far are you willing to go? And if I were the president, I would come down from the $1.9 trillion.

I wouldn't come down and just some massive amount, but I would absolutely come down. And I would say to these 10 folks, if I come down, I need your support. And if they say, we're not going to give you the support unless you come all the way down to what we want, then, of course, you have got to move forward.

[18:10:10]

But this is not -- and, look, I understand that the Republicans rope- a-doped Barack Obama on Obamacare, I don't think they did the right thing. But I also know that, once Obama passed that without a Republican vote at all, then it's been years of trying to tear it apart and bring it down.

My sense is this. This is a new era. This is an unprecedented time. And Joe Biden promised cooperation, going across the aisle. He's the president. He deserves the bulk of what he wants. But it can't be my way or the highway, or we're back to this game again.

And that's what I'm concerned about. And I think he can live with the -- there's things that he says I'm not going to give on. OK, that's fine. Those are things -- he's the president. He should get that. But there's clearly things that he can give on.

I just saw here that there's like -- I don't know if this is exactly right -- Committee for Responsible Budget on February 3 said there's still almost a trillion dollars that hasn't been spent yet from the old packages. So, that matters. It is going to affect our children.

People do need help now, but I think we can get a bipartisan agreement. If we can't, then I'm all -- I'm for Biden doing whatever he has to do.

BLITZER: Bakari, what do you think? What's your reaction to what we're hearing from Governor Kasich?

BAKARI SELLERS, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, I mean, I think there are a few points. This isn't just Monopoly money that falls out of the -- out of thin air.

I mean, President Biden is trying to do things like a child tax credit. He's trying to do things like child care centers, making sure that they have funds to stay open and take care of children. He's trying to do things like enhance unemployment benefits, strengthen food stamp programs, get money to state and local government.

So it's not just a negotiation between $1.9 trillion and $600 billion, and let's find a number in between. These are programs to meet the needs of everyday Americans. That's the first point.

The second point is, this negotiation can still happen. But what happened over the past 24 hours -- and I think Gloria can attest to this -- is, over the past 24 hours, Democrats said, we're going to put this in place. If these negotiations do not pan out, we're going to go at it alone. And I think that has to be done. I think that's a lesson that's

learned from the rope-a-dope, to use Governor Kasich's terms, that was portrayed and pulled against Barack Obama.

BLITZER: Yes.

SELLERS: The last thing -- and let's be completely honest with this -- this is a bipartisan piece of legislation, because both Democrats and Republicans throughout the United States of America support this.

I don't know one Republican that is going to send back their $1,400 check because Susan Collins didn't vote for the bill. I mean, that's patently absurd.

So, yes, we're redefining bipartisanship by taking it out of the gridlock of Washington, D.C., and doing what's best for the American people.

BLITZER: All of the previous -- Gloria, all of the previous emergency relief packages passed over the past year as a result of the coronavirus pandemic were passed overwhelmingly with bipartisan support.

BORGER: Right.

And I think -- look, in the end, I think there's going to be some level of compromise here, to Governor Kasich's point. I think you're going to find more targeted stimulus. I think, at this point, it may be that the minimum wage doesn't -- the increase in the minimum wage doesn't survive in this particular budget package, which they're trying to get through.

So, there is going to be some kind of compromise. But, so far, there have been few Republicans, aside from, say, Mitt Romney, who has come up with some interesting proposals, who actually come out, say, the House Republicans, and say, well, here's what we would do in place of X, Y, and Z.

And you need that kind of give-and-take, and I'm not sure that that is really occurring.

BLITZER: And the Democrats' hand, Governor Kasich, really has been strengthened by the fact that the Senate and the House -- they're both in the control of the Democrats -- passed this legislation requiring just a simple majority to go ahead and make it the law of the land.

KASICH: Yes, well, that's just kind of using budget rules to ram it through.

Look, I negotiated, along with Senator Domenici, with the Democrats to produce the first balanced budget in a generation back in 1997. We paid down the largest amount of the publicly held debt in modern history, and we ran surpluses. And what happened? All boats rose.

The economy did much better. I am not suggesting here that we don't need relief. We absolutely do. But I do think there's ways to reengineer this, because what I don't want to see, Wolf, is the same old stuff that we have been seeing.

And if Republicans don't want to be forthcoming, then I'm with Joe Biden moving forward. But give them a chance. Look through it. As Gloria just said, there's ways to try to engineer this thing so people can be helped and we end up in a good place.

And one final thing before we...

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: Go ahead.

KASICH: One final thing I wanted to say here about this problem with Marjorie Taylor Greene.

And what bothers me about this -- of course, I have condemned the Republicans for this. But they allow these conspiracy theories to just go on and keep being promoted, and no punishment for the people who are doing this. Not only it hurts the Republicans. I believe it significantly begins to hurt the country. This has to stop.

[18:15:17]

If you -- whoever is listening to this, please, it has to stop. Runaway conspiracy theories undermines the strength of the United States.

BLITZER: Well, Bakari, is it going to stop or is it going to explode?

SELLERS: No, it's not going to stop.

I mean, as much as we had -- and I have a great deal of respect and admiration for Governor Kasich. I mean, the fact is that this Republican Party belongs to Donald Trump, as Marjorie Taylor Greene said.

KASICH: It does, yes.

SELLERS: And it belongs to people like her and Matt Gaetz.

And when you think about -- and Jim Jordan and all these people who embolden her and who lift her up and who prop her up, and the fact is, I mean, she can now and all of them go on another news station, and they sit with hosts who prop them up as well.

I mean, this is patently absurd. I agree with you. She was dangerous. The language she used is dangerous. But, at the end of the day, the Republican Party, I mean, this is their bed. They have got to lay in this. It's tearing down the fabric of this country, but they have to be willing to root that out.

And they're not. She won an election; 52 percent of the voters voted for. And now she gets to run around and talk about Jewish space lasers. She gets to talk about Sandy Hook wasn't real. She gets to talk about assassinating members of Congress. And she gets the attention and she's the face of the Republican Party. And that's the tragedy that they have to unwind. But this is their

bed. They have to lay in it.

BLITZER: Yes, and she says there's no evidence a plane crashed into the Pentagon on 9/11.

KASICH: Just completely nuts.

BLITZER: Crazy.

BORGER: Yes.

KASICH: Completely crazy.

BLITZER: All right, guys, stand by.

There's more we're following. A top Democrat responds to escalating criticism that the president's COVID relief package is simply too big. House Democratic Caucus Chair Hakeem Jeffries, there you see him. He's standing by live. We have got lots to discuss.

And another COVID-19 vaccine could be available very soon. We're going to tell you what Novavax is saying about its production plans.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:20:56]

BLITZER: Tonight, Democrats are taking another major step towards passing COVID-19 relief, potentially without any Republican support.

That prospect seems increasingly likely, as President Biden is stressing the urgent need for relief over his goal of bipartisanship.

Let's discuss this and more with Democratic Congressman Hakeem Jeffries of New York. He's the chairman of the House Democratic Caucus.

Congressman, thank you so much for joining us.

I don't know if you saw that op-ed in "The Washington Post," the former Obama economic adviser Larry Summers arguing that President Biden's COVID relief package may be too big, and he warns it could potentially risk other progressive economic priorities down the road.

How do you respond to that?

REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES (D-NY): Well, I have respect for Larry Summers, but I strongly disagree with his perspective. One,

The COVID-19 pandemic is a once-in-a-century crisis, with a lot of pain and suffering and death being experienced by the American people. Over 425,000 Americans have died. More than 25 (sic) Americans have contracted the COVID-19 virus.

And, of course, you have got tens of millions of Americans who are dealing with unemployment or homelessness are on the brink of eviction and foreclosure, food insecurity, and dealing with the economic fallout from this pandemic.

And so it requires a once-in-a-century, continuing, comprehensive and compassionate congressional response. That is what the American Rescue Plan represents.

BLITZER: President Biden today said he's not budging when it comes to the size of the proposed stimulus checks, $1,400. If you add the $600 that were already given in the last economic stimulus package, that's $2,000.

But it does sound -- and correct me if I'm wrong, Congressman -- that he is open to potentially reducing the number of people who would be eligible to get those checks, reducing the amount of money that they make, making them eligible or ineligible. Are you willing to lower the income limit for eligibility for this additional $1,400 payment?

JEFFRIES: It's a reasonable conversation to have, particularly if the president has indicated that he's open to more targeted relief.

We want to make sure, one, that we do keep the promise of increasing direct payments survival checks to a total of $2,000 for everyday Americans. Now, we can have a discussion about what the range of eligibility should be and whether it should be lowered from the current amount, which is $75,000 for the full check, up to $99,000 for an individual and approximately $200,000 for a married couple of two.

Perhaps that can be targeted in a way that we sweep in working families and, of course, the poor, as well as middle-class Americans who are struggling, but exclude the wealthy, the well-off and the well-connected, or those who are actually doing well. That's a reasonable conversation to have.

And the president has indicated to us in his communication with House Democrats a few days ago and also stated publicly that he's willing to have that discussion with Democrats and Republicans in the House in the Senate.

BLITZER: Yes, there may be some room for compromise on that.

Let's talk, while I have your, Congressman, about impeachment, the second impeachment trial coming up next Tuesday in the U.S. Senate.

We're learning that the House managers likely won't have a showdown to try to force the former president to testify in the trial under oath. If that testimony isn't crucial to making this case, why did they make that request in the first place?

JEFFRIES: Well, I think it was an important request to make, in the context of ascertaining the president's willingness to actually come forth.

He's always indicated over the last four years that he's willing to talk to anyone at any time, and he's not a bashful individual. And, presumably, he can speak in his own defense in a more compelling fashion than anyone else, since he's the subject of this article of impeachment.

[18:25:06]

He's the one who incited the violent insurrection. It was his words that caused the mob to come to Washington, D.C. He summoned them. He then incited them. And Donald Trump then sent them to march on the Congress with deadly consequences, where blood was spilled.

The fact that he has declined to testify shows that he's unwilling to face the scrutiny of cross-examination, which, in the law, has largely been viewed as the most significant vehicle for uncovering the truth ever discovered in jurisprudence. He doesn't want to confront that.

And so I think, as lead impeachment manager Jamie Raskin has indicated, the senators should draw an adverse influence that, because he doesn't want to show up, his words and his testimony would be incriminating, not exonerating.

BLITZER: Congressman Hakeem Jeffries of New York, thanks, as usual, for joining us.

JEFFRIES: Thank you so much, Wolf.

BLITZER: Stay safe out there.

Just ahead: Health experts are now ramping up their warnings that the Super Bowl potentially could be a super-spreader, with the big game now only 48 hours away.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:30:00]

BLITZER: Tonight, members of the U.S. military are being mobilized to support the campaign to vaccinate Americans against COVID-19. CNN's Lucy Kafanov is following all the new developments in battling the pandemic.

Lucy, what, about a year or so after the crisis began, it is all coming down to getting more shots into people's arms.

LUCY KAFANOV, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It certainly is, Wolf. And the picture is getting somewhat brighter. New data just out from the CDC indicates that at least 29 million people have now gotten at least one dose of that critical vaccine, nearly 7.5 million have been fully vaccinated.

Now, we still have a long way to go nationwide, but that effort is ramping up.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KAFANOV (voice over): The fight against COVID-19 progressing on three fronts, more shots, more sites and more vaccines heading towards approval, New York's mega vaccination site opening up at Yankee Stadium this morning. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was in and out, two seconds.

KAFANOV: In Maryland, that parking lot at Six Flags now a mass vaccination center.

GOV. LARRY HOGAN (R-MD): The idea eventually is to build an infrastructure that can handle millions of vaccines.

KAFANOV: And Northern California turning Oakland Coliseum and Levi Stadium into vaccination hubs.

American troops joining the fight against COVID. The Biden administration announced it will deploy 1,000 service members across the country to help with vaccination efforts, this as COVID vaccine doses administered in the U.S. outnumbered new cases ten to one this week.

DR. ASHISH JHA, DEAN, BROWN UNIVERSITY SCHOOL OF PUBLIC HEALTH: It is getting better. And I think we're going to get much, much better yet.

KAFANOV: Another 1.3 million shots in the arms of Americans reported Thursday, new cases down 30 percent in the last two weeks, and according to the CDC, down 61 percent since the January 8th peak. Hospitalizations dropped below 90,000 for the first time since November.

Johnson & Johnson submitted its single dose vaccine for emergency FDA authorization and could become available next month.

DR. PAUL OFFIT, MEMBER, FDA VACCINE ADVISORY COMMITTEE: It is a single dose, it's shipped and stored at refrigerator temperatures, so that makes it much easier.

KAFANOV: The CDC set to release new guidance on reopening schools in the coming week.

GOV. JAY INSLEE (D-WA): Today, we are going to be vaccinating teachers.

KAFANOV: 24 states plus Washington, D.C. now allowing teachers to get the vaccine.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We are so excited because we will be able to get back.

KAFANOV: Not the case of several districts. The teachers' unions have demanded more safety measures before going back, a thorny issue for the White House after the CDC director suggested Wednesday schools can reopen before teachers are vaccinated.

DR. ROCHELLE WALENSKY, CDC DIRECTOR: Vaccinations of teachers is not a prerequisite for safely opening our schools.

KAFANOV: The White House yesterday quick to push back.

JEN PSAKI, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Dr. Walensky spoke to this in her personal capacity. Obviously, she's head of the CDC, but we're going to wait for the final guidance to come out.

KAFANOV: Then there's testing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The country is well behind where we need to be in testing.

KAFANOV: The Biden administration today announced plans to make 60 million at-home COVID-19 tests available this summer. The White House still exploring sending face masks directly to all Americans.

RON KLAIN, WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF: We want to get this back on track. I hope for the next few days or next week, we may be able to announce some progress on this.

KAFANOV: And not wearing a mask when traveling, well, that could get you a $250 fine, according to the TSA.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KAFANOV (on camera): And with the Super Bowl kicking off this weekend, the administration is eyeing the big game as a chance to score points by educating the public about the pandemic. There's word of potential taped message from the president and first lady, thanking health care workers.

And this just in today, all 32 NFL teams announcing they'll be offering up their stadiums as mass vaccination sites. A little bit of good news before the weekend. Wolf?

BLITZER: That's really, really important. Thank you very much, Lucy, for that report.

Let's get more on all of this. Our Chief Medical Correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta is joining us.

Sanjay, in the past week, vaccine doses given here in the United States outnumber new cases of coronavirus ten to one. So is that enough to stay ahead of this virus because it is still rapidly spreading, including these new variants?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. I mean, Wolf, there's no magic sort of number here. What happens is that these viruses, as they spread more and more, they accumulate these mutations, and a lot of the mutations that they accumulate are pretty inconsequential.

[18:35:06]

They don't really cause any kind problems.

Keep in mind, we weren't really talking about variants, Wolf, until about a year into this pandemic. Now, we're seeing more and more of these. So, clearly, you want to do it quickly as possible.

If you look at the IHME modeling, what they are projecting now is that by June 1st, we'll have about 175 million people vaccinated, significant. The herd immunity is probably going to be closer to 250 million. But as a result, close to 123,000 lives likely will be saved if we can get to that point that quickly. Hopefully, we can go faster than that.

But the flip side, Wolf, I guess, to your question is that still by that point, there could be 190,000 more people who would sadly die.

So you want to go as fast as you can, but there's no magical sort of pace at which this needs to happen.

BLITZER: Yes. And there could be some more vaccines that are authorized for use. Right now, there are two, but there could be three, four or maybe five in the coming weeks and months that will have emergency use authorization.

The CDC director, Dr. Walensky, now says guidance on reopening schools will be released next week. What is the best way, Sanjay, to ensure schools can quickly reopen which all of us know is so important, but they can reopen safely?

GUPTA: Well, Wolf, I mean, I talked to so many people about this over the past -- for awhile. And I dealt with this, I think, as a parent of school-aged children. I think what studies have shown and what the CDC is sort of pointing to is a few studies now, a big one out of Wisconsin, another one out of North Carolina, showing it is possible for schools to open safely, even without vaccinations in certain situations.

The school has to have resources. In the Wisconsin study, I think we can show you basically they had adequate ventilation, everyone wore masks. And what they found was that the spread of COVID within the school was about 40 percent lower than it was in the community. 5,300 people roughly in the school system, 191 people ended up becoming infected, but only 7 of those 191 actually got infected via school. So that's data. That's important to know.

The question really becomes, what you hear over and over again is, can you replicate it in all of these school districts, and a lot of teachers feel like they can't. There's not enough ventilation in their schools. They don't have enough resources, which is why I think this is becoming such an important issue. What many teachers say is they don't feel safe unless they get vaccinated. Si it is going to go back and forth.

I think the good news in Lucy Kafanov's piece that you just saw there is that most states are now starting to vaccinate teachers as well. Hopefully, the numbers of vaccinations will go up there, and this might become a little bit more of a moot point. But this is really a collision in some ways, Wolf, of what the data is showing, what is replicable, can you replicate that in all these different school districts, and just the psychology of this.

People are still scared, Wolf. When they're scared, they can get this and --

BLITZER: The teachers are scared. They're worried that the kids could pass on the virus to them. So should it be a requisite that the teachers be vaccinated before they return to the classroom?

GUPTA: Well, I mean, like I said, I think in some school districts, it doesn't seem to be necessary, and that's something what Dr. Walensky was sort of responding to. If you can make sure that you have all of those other basic things that we have been talking about, do you have adequate ventilation.

This is measurable thing. It's not just a subjective sort of thing. Do you have adequate masking? Are people being compliant with that? We know that if those basic things are in place, not only can it be safe, it can probably be safer than the actual community in which these students and staff live. But if you don't have these things, it can potentially be a problem.

So I think that's the real issue. There's no one-size-fits-all answer here. I think there are many places around the country where they say that teachers have to be vaccinated because they can't guarantee those basic public health measures.

BLITZER: Sanjay, stay with us. We're getting breaking news coming into The Situation Room right now, and the president's COVID relief emergency package. He just gave a new interview to CBS News, discussing size of the plan, the potential room for compromise. Let's play this clip.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NORAH O'DONNELL, CBS NEWS HOST: You said you're not compromising on the $1,400 checks.

JOE BIDEN, U.S. PRESIDENT: No.

O'DONNELL: You made that promise, you're sticking to it. So the big question is who gets it.

BIDEN: That's right.

O'DONNELL: Is it someone who makes up to $50,000 or is it someone who makes up to $75,000?

BIDEN: I am prepared to negotiate that, but here is the deal. Middle class folks need help. But you don't need to get any help to someone making $300,000 or 250. So, it's somewhere between an individual making up to 75 and phasing out and a couple making up to 150 and phasing out. But, again, I am wide open on what that is.

O'DONNELL: You also want to raise minimum wage to $15.

[18:40:01]

Is that something you would be willing to negotiate in order to get Republican support?

BIDEN: Well, apparently, that's not going to occur because of the rules of the United States Senate.

O'DONNELL: So, you're saying minimum wage won't be in this --

BIDEN: My guess is it will not be in it. But I do think that we should have minimum wage stand by itself, $15 an hour, and work your way up to the 15. It doesn't have to be boom. And all of the economics show, if you do that, the whole economy rises.

I am prepared as president of the United States in a separate negotiation of minimum wage to work my way up from what it is now, which is -- look, no one should work 40 hours a week and live below the poverty wage. And if you're making less than $15 an hour, you're living below poverty wage.

O'DONNELL: But that may not be in your American rescue plan.

BIDEN: No, I put it in, but I don't think it is going to survive.

O'DONNELL: Let's turn to the impeachment trial, President Trump's impeachment trial. If you were still a senator, would you vote to convict him?

BIDEN: Look, I ran like hell to defeat him because I thought he was unfit to be president. I watched what everybody else watched, what happened when that coup invaded the United States Congress. But I am not in the Senate now. I'll let the Senate make that decision.

O'DONNELL: Well, let me ask you then something that you do have oversight of as president. Should former President Trump still receive intelligence briefings?

BIDEN: I think not.

O'DONNELL: Why not?

BIDEN: Because of his erratic behavior, unrelated to the insurrection.

O'DONNELL: You've called him an existential threat, you've called him dangerous, you've called him reckless.

BIDEN: yes, I have, and I believe it.

O'DONNELL: What's your worst fear if he continues to get these intelligence briefings?

BIDEN: I'd rather not speculate out loud. I just think that there is no need for him to have the intelligence briefing. What value is giving him an intelligence briefing? What impact does it have at all, other than the fact he may slip and say something?

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: (INAUDIBLE) in that interview the president gave Norah O'Donnell of CBS News.

I want to bring back our Chief White House Correspondent Kaitlan Collins. I think it was significant, the $15 minimum wage is probably not going to be in this COVID relief package. He doesn't want the former president of the United States to get intelligence briefings. The tradition, of course, is that former presidents do receive highly classified intelligence briefings when they seek out those kinds of briefings. He says he shouldn't get those briefings because of his erratic behavior. And he says he is willing to negotiate on the level of income that would qualify you to get the $1,400 check.

There was some significant news there.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: There was, Wolf. And still no clarity really of what that's going to look like, because that's been the big question, is what is the phase out going to be for people who are receiving these checks, he is saying he is not coming down from the $1,400.

But, Wolf, this news about the federal minimum wage is significant because, of course, that is something he promised on the campaign trail. He hitched it to this proposal that they have been talking about. But it was already facing some headwinds in the Senate. Of course, he's left out of that Senate passed reconciliation budget proposal overnight. This is part of this reconciliation process.

And Biden says that he thinks going through this process to get his bill passed. This is a way they can get a pass without any Republicans voting for it is going to come at a cost. And that cost is going to be that $15 federal minimum wage.

We have kind of expected there was going to be a fight over this. You already had seen West Virginia Senator Joe Manchin say he didn't think that that was something that should be included in this bill. But to see the president so quickly be there to say that this is something he thinks he is going to have to sacrifice in this proposal is significant, Wolf. So it seems that that is something that Democrats will not have to fight over if he is already acknowledging that because of the reconciliation rules, there's a chance it is not going to survive.

And, of course, there at the end, talking about these intelligence briefings for President Trump, that's significant as well because, remember, it was a former intelligence official who was actually in charge of briefing President Trump, Sue Gordon, who said that she did not believe he should have access to these intelligence briefings. And now President Biden is saying he agrees because he thinks there's a concern President Trump could slip up and say something.

BLITZER: Yes. And he said that the former president's erratic behavior, unrelated to the insurrection, is why he no longer deserved to get highly classified intelligence briefings. I don't know if there's a precedent for a sitting president, a new sitting president to order the intelligence community to bar a former president from receiving these kinds of intelligence briefings. I suspect this would be a first. I don't know that for sure. But I suspect it would be a first, because, normally, they do allow former presidents to get these intelligence briefings. But he didn't mince words at all. He said it is the erratic behavior of Trump that would bar him from getting these kinds of briefings.

[18:45:00]

COLLINS: Yes. And, Wolf, what's interesting is remember when Trump was in office, he was not particularly interested in getting these intelligence briefings. There was a time, of course, the big controversy over the intelligence that showed there were purported Russian bounties paid to the Taliban for -- on the heads of U.S. soldiers, and that was a big thing because it was included in the president's intelligence briefing for that day.

But because he had not been orally briefed by briefers, the White House tried to skirt around it, say that was why the president had not been talking about it until it was publicly reported, intelligence we should note that the former White House disputed. Donald Trump was not a big fan of getting his intelligence briefings. He didn't get them on a regular basis. You often hear from officials who were in the room briefing him, including former director of national intelligence, Dan Coats, who talk about how difficult it was to give the president an intelligence briefing because either he wasn't listening or often pushed back on some of the intelligence, arguing with officials with what they were bringing him.

But the question of what his opinion is going to be on it now, Biden is saying he shouldn't get it because of erratic behavior is notable. You're right, Wolf, we should point out there have been so many stunning things that happened. It's easy to get lost in the news cycle, but the fact that three weeks into the presidency, Biden is going on the record to say he doesn't think his predecessor should get access to intelligence briefings is not something we have seen before, it is striking and significant. Whether he is going to rule it out, didn't seem clear if he is going to do that. But weighing in saying he doesn't think Donald Trump should get intelligence briefings because of his behavior is noteworthy.

BLITZER: Yeah, he said, the question was should former President Trump still receive intelligence briefings, he said I think not. And Norah O'Donnell said why not. And he said because of his erratic behavior, unrelated to the insurrection.

Let's get Preet Bharara into this conversation, our senior legal analyst, former U.S. attorney of the southern district of New York. He used to get intelligence briefings.

You had security clearance. What do you make of the current president's answer?

PREET BHARARA, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: I think he is absolutely right, and I think you and Kaitlan covered it pretty well. There are a number of reasons he shouldn't, there's no need, there's a risk because what the former president I think was somewhat cavalier in how he used intelligence information. And giving of intelligence briefings to former presidents is not in a rule or statute, it is a norm, a courtesy. To extend that courtesy to a former president who broke all the norms, including with respect to intelligence I don't think is necessary at all.

And also, remember Donald Trump tried to take away security clearances of former high intelligence officials, including John Brennan. So, the most important reason is it poses a risk, second most important reason, is there's no need. What benefit does the United States gets to give briefings to a person as Kaitlan points out, that didn't care about them when he was in office.

BLITZER: It is strictly a courtesy a sitting president does for a former president. I think Kaitlan is right. I don't think it happened in the past if he decides no more intelligence for Donald Trump. Very quickly while I have, Preet, he was asked by Norah O'Donnell, if you were a senator, would you vote to convict him in the Senate trial, second impeachment trial begins next week.

And Biden said, look, I ran like hell to defeat him because I thought he was unfit to be president, I watched what everybody else watched what happened when that crew invaded United States Congress. But I am not in the Senate now. I will let the Senate make the decision.

Preet, what did you think of that answer?

BHARARA: I think it is the right answer. On issues relating not just to impeachment of the former president, also how the Justice Department should conduct itself, whether there should be investigations into the president and other actors, I think Joe Biden politically and ethically is trying to stay above the fray, giving sort of his opinion as he sees fit, but leaving it to the Senate. I think that makes sense.

BLITZER: As you know, Trump through his lawyers announced he was not going to testify under oath and be subject to cross examination. Do you think it's at all realistic that the House managers, the Democrats, should issue a subpoena for him to appear?

BHARARA: You know, that will be litigated, could be rejected. There's no consequence for it. As we keep talking about over and over again, the proceeding in the Senate, we call it a trial, it is not like a civil trial or criminal trial that occurs in state or federal courts. Even if you got Trump to come testify, what's he going to say? He is going to dissemble, he's going to make a political speech, he is going to lie.

I think -- it just, you know, there's -- it would be nice to have if you can do it, subject him to cross examination, but given the plainness of the facts and videos that are out and statements Donald Trump made on the record, I don't think it's an important omission.

BLITZER: You know, Kaitlan, it's interesting. The trial begins on Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, I don't know how long it goes.

[18:50:01]

But the White House announced they're going about their business and they're going to do all sorts of announcements, sign executive orders, make speeches as if this trial were not necessarily going on, although so much of our attention will be on the trial, right?

COLLINS: Yeah, Wolf, try as they may, of course. That is going to be what's happening in Washington next week. There's no ignoring that, and it's notable because remember when Joe Biden first got into office, he had not really commented on Trump's looming impeachment trial, talking about what was going on. He was trying to undo Trump's legacy.

To a degree, it is still hanging over this White House, because trial is still happening. He's still getting asked about him in interviews, and he told us the impeachment trial had to happen because he said it would be worse for the country. He still has a lot of cabinet nominees to get confirmed. And, of course, he wants to get this coronavirus proposal through Congress as much as possible. This is going to affect that.

And even though they're going to schedule other events, they know that.

BLITZER: All right, guys. Thank you very much. We're following all the breaking news. And there's more breaking news we're following, significant changes just announced by the acting capitol police chief in the wake of the January 6th attack. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:55:37]

BLITZER: We're following breaking news. In a new video message, the acting chief of the capitol police officer is pledging to make significant changes to the department's operations and procedures in the wake of the deadly insurrection on January 6. She also gave an update on the injuries and the violence officers faced.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

YOGANANDA PITTMAN, ACTING U.S. CAPITOL POLICE CHIEF: They were engaged in hand to hand combat, assaulted with chemical irritants and Tasers. They were assaulted with pipes, bats, bricks and American flagpoles. In all, 125 capitol police officers were physically assaulted and over 70 injured.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: CNN's Brian Todd is joining us right now. What are you learning?

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right, Wolf, in addition to that, Acting Chief Pittman said they're going to change their policy and training based on internal review there. Also, the former police chief, Steven Sund, we've just obtained a letter he wrote to Congress earlier this week. He said the entire intelligence community missed what was going to happen ahead of time, ahead of those riots on January 6th.

And he laid out a stark and disturbing timeline of how long it took for the National Guard to come and help out his beleaguered officers on that day. Basically, 4 1/2 hours from the time he first requested help to the time guardsman swarmed the capitol grounds and by that it was over.

In addition tonight, Wolf, we have new details on members of the far right militia group, the Proud Boys and others and the conspiracy charge they face.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(CHANTING)

TODD (voice-over): At the height of the insurrection one rioter sent out a video of himself celebrating.

NICHOLAS OCHS, PROUD BOYS AFFILIATE: Hello from the capitol.

TODD: Prosecutors say this is Nicholas Ochs, the founder of the Hawaii chapter of the far right pro-Trump group the Proud Boys who have often engaged in street battles with Antifa.

Tonight, Ochs, along with another Proud Boys associate, Nicholas DeCarlo, are under indictment for conspiracy in the capitol riot investigation. Prosecutors say they conspired to block Congress' certification of President Biden's win, that they planned and fund- raised for the effort then joined with the violent mob inside the capitol.

ARIEH KOVLER, ANALYST OF EXTREMIST SOCIAL MEDIA: The Proud Boys were organized, they were ready. They were near the capitol early. One of the first groups to reach at one point in the capitol, and a number of them did get inside, and did seem to be talking to each other, coordinating at least to a certain degree.

TODD: Ochs and DeCarlo are alleged to have inscribed the words, "murder the media" on a prominent door into the capitol. Ochs told CNN that day, quote, we didn't have to break in. I just walked in and filmed.

Another Proud Boys associate Ethan Nordean has just been arrested. Federal prosecutors believe Nordean also engaged in some planning before January 6th, saying he asked for protective gear and communications equipment on social media prior to that day. Two others linked to the Proud Boys, William Pepe and Dominic Pazola are also charged with conspiracy. But in their case, prosecutors say they worked together more during the attack.

Prosecutors say Pazola is the one seen here smashing a window at the capitol with a shield. According to CNN's analysis at least 11 people with ties to the Proud Boys have been charged in connection with the Capitol riot, including Joseph Randall Biggs who prosecutors believe had a walkie-talkie-like device and who they say urged followers to blend in on January 6th.

In addition to the Proud Boys three alleged member of the far right self-described militia group the oath keepers have also been indicted on conspiracy charges.

KATHLEEN BELEW, HISTORIAN OF RIGHT-WING EXTREMIST MOVEMENTS: I think now we see this moment of action, of arrests and of an enormous amount of attention and pressure on a lot of these groups.

TODD: Analyst Kathleen Belew bleu says the FBI and other agencies have the responsibility to take down the Proud Boys, the Oath Keepers and other groups. But she worries about what happens.

BELEW: As pressure mounts on the Proud Boys today, one thing that's happened in the past with some regularity members flee to other groups where they will continue their activism.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TODD (on camera): Also tonight, a mother of eight from Pennsylvania, Rachel Marie Powell, seen in videotape operating a battering ram has been arrested. She's in custody. Prosecutors say she also called in instructions to rioters -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Brian Todd, reporting for us, thank you very much, Brian.

Important programming note to our viewers. On Monday, the Secretary of State Tony Blinken will give his first CNN interview to me here in THE SITUATION ROOM.

"ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT" starts right now.