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The Situation Room

Interview With Rep. Adam Schiff (D-CA); Democrats Work To Hammer Out COVID-19 Relief Bill; Trump's Second Impeachment Trial Set For Tuesday; U.S. Reports Lowest Daily Case Count Since Early November; Extraordinary Security At U.S. Capitol For Start Of Trump Trial; One-On-One With Secretary of State Blinken. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired February 08, 2021 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[18:00:00]

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Meantime, the White House says President Biden won't pay much attention, if any attention at all, to the trial, as he focuses on advancing his $1.9 trillion emergency COVID relief package.

This week, key committee's debate, amend and rewrite the legislation, making critical decisions that could, that could determine if all Democrats and any Republicans, for that matter, support it.

First, let's get some more on this historic impeachment trial of Donald Trump and the new rules just agreed to in the U.S. Senate.

Our chief domestic correspondent, Jim Acosta, is covering all of this for us.

Jim, as you and all of our viewers know by now, the trial begins tomorrow. Based on these new rules, what can we expect?

JIM ACOSTA, CNN CHIEF DOMESTIC CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Wolf.

Senate Democrats and Republicans have reached a deal on the timeline of the trial. Under this agreement, the Senate will vote on the constitutional question of holding a trial while an ex-president is out of office. That's expected to pass.

Then we will see 16 hours of arguments over two days from both sides, meaning this trial could continue until early next week before a vote on conviction or acquittal. While he's been out of office down here in Florida, former President Trump has been reaching out to allies and advisers, telling them he believes he will be acquitted at this trial because he does not believe there will be enough Republicans to vote to convict at the trial.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ACOSTA (voice-over): Just a day away from the start of his second impeachment trial, former president Donald Trump is facing severe consequences if he's convicted, as he could be barred from ever again serving in the Oval Office.

Senate Democrats say they have a deal for what is shaping up to be a trial that could last more than one week, with days of arguments from both sides in the case.

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY): Only the fourth trial of a president or former president in American history, and the first trial for any public official that has been impeached twice.

ACOSTA: Trump's defense team is arguing the former president is totally blameless for the bloody siege of the Capitol.

In their latest filing before the impeachment trial begins Tuesday, his lawyers are blasting the proceeding as "a selfish attempt by Democratic leadership in the House to prey upon the feelings of horror and confusion that fell upon all Americans across the entire political spectrum upon seeing the destruction at the Capitol on January 6 by a few hundred people."

But former aides tell CNN a different story, that the then president was enjoying the spectacle, one ex-White House official saying Trump was "loving watching the Capitol mob."

Arguing the evidence of Trump's conduct is overwhelming, House Democrats will seize on the former president's own words to make their case.

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: And if you don't fight like hell, you're not going to have a country anymore. We're going to try and give them the kind of pride and boldness that they need to take back our country. So, let's walk down Pennsylvania Avenue.

ACOSTA: Trump's defense team argues his statements cannot and could not reasonably be interpreted as a call to immediate violence or a call for a violent overthrow of the United States government.

But Democrats plan to point out Trump supporters appear to be following his commands as they unleash their assault.

TRUMP: Go home and go home in peace.

ACOSTA: Noting how some of the mob seem to obey his call to go home.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Donald Trump asked everybody to go home. He won the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) day.

ACOSTA: Then there was the Trump tweet targeting Vice President Mike Pence just as he was in danger at the Capitol.

UNIDENTIFIED RIOTERS: Hang Mike Pence! Hang Mike Pence!

ACOSTA: President Biden says Trump should speak up if he's innocent.

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Look, he's got an offer to come and testify. He has decided not to. We will let the Senate work that out.

ACOSTA: Trump's lawyers insist it's unconstitutional to hold the trial after their client has left office. But some Republicans aren't buying it, as lawyer Charles Cooper, who

represented former National Security Adviser John Bolton, wrote in "The Wall Street Journal: "Article 1, Section authorizes the Senate to impose an optional punishment on conviction, disqualification to hold and enjoy any office of honor, trust or profit under the United States. That punishment can be imposed only on former officers."

One of the GOP House members who voted to impeach Trump, Liz Cheney, said it's time for her party to face some hard truths.

REP. LIZ CHENEY (D-WY): People have been lied to. The extent to which the president, President Trump, for months leading up to January 6 spread the notion that the election had been stolen or that the election was rigged, was a lie. And people need to understand that.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ACOSTA: Now, the president's lawyers say Trump and his legal team are pleased with the agreement for this timeline of the trial. His attorneys say they welcome -- quote -- "the opportunity to explain to senators why it is absurd and unconstitutional," they say, to hold an impeachment trial against a private citizen.

But there are plenty of legal scholars who argue Trump can be tried even out of office, as sources tell us Trump has been fixated on punishing Republican lawmakers who voted to impeachment in the House, like Congresswoman Liz Cheney, who you just saw there.

A Trump adviser said Trump sees his efforts as seeking -- quote -- "accountability" -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Jim, I want you to stay with us. Don't go too far away.

As the former president is about to face trial, the Biden White House is stressing that the current president has a lot of work to

[18:05:03]

Let's go to our senior White House correspondent, Phil Mattingly.

Phil, it's a big week for President Biden. And Trump's trial certainly has the potential to be a major distraction.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: No question about it.

But that big week for team Biden is basically not paying any attention to that trial. Their focus right now zeroed in on one thing, and that is coronavirus relief, a recognition that the stakes are extraordinarily high on both the public health and economic front. And if they want to move, they need to move now, Wolf.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEN PSAKI, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: I don't expect that will be a primary focus for him this week or of his senior staff either. MATTINGLY (voice-over): On the eve of his predecessor's second

impeachment trial:

PSAKI: The president himself would tell you that we keep him pretty busy, and he has a full schedule this week.

MATTINGLY: President Biden focused primarily on one thing, COVID relief.

PSAKI: We're encouraged that both Speaker Pelosi and Majority Leader Schumer are in full agreement about the need to move swiftly on the president's proposal. And the committee markups we will see throughout the week or evidence of Congress acting on that expeditiously.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So, come on in.

MATTINGLY: Today, Biden underscoring the need for federal assistance during a virtual tour of a vaccination site at an NFL stadium in Glendale, Arizona.

BIDEN: Help us vaccinate more people more quickly and to get ahead of this virus, instead of behind it.

MATTINGLY: But with congressional Democrats moving forward this week without GOP support...

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT): We have enormous crises, and we have got to pass that legislation as soon as we possibly can.

MATTINGLY: ... razor-thin majorities in both chambers bringing an early test with the highest stakes. Biden already signaling a key progressive provision, $15 minimum wage, may not survive.

BIDEN: I put it in, but I don't think it's going to survive.

MATTINGLY: Biden citing Senate rules for the provision's demise, something Senate Budget Committee Chair Bernie Sanders is working to overcome.

SANDERS: We have a room full of lawyers working as hard as we can to make the case to the parliamentarian that, in fact, raising the minimum wage will have significant budget implications, and, in fact, should be consistent with our reconciliation rules.

MATTINGLY: And the White House still unclear on how to proceed on another looming intraparty battle, the targeting of stimulus checks.

PSAKI: It's still working its way through Congress. And I don't think a conclusion has been made yet on the exact level of targeting.

MATTINGLY: But key pieces are coming together, with Democrats introducing a central element of Biden's plan, an expansion of the child tax credit to $3,600 per child under the age of 6 and $3,000 per child ages 6 to 17, an emergency provision for one year Biden has pushed for since his campaign, all as Biden this weekend made clear he doesn't believe former President Trump should have any access to intelligence briefings.

NORAH O'DONNELL, HOST, "CBS EVENING NEWS": Should former President Trump still receive intelligence briefings?

BIDEN: I think not.

MATTINGLY: But White House Press Secretary Jen Psaki making clear that statement is not policy.

PSAKI: He was expressing his concern about former President Trump receiving access to sensitive intelligence. But he also has deep trust in his intelligence, own intelligence team to make a determination about how to provide intelligence information, if at any point the former president requests a briefing.

MATTINGLY: And as to the looming trial, well, Biden is not willing to bite.

BIDEN: Look, he's got an offer to come and testify. He has decided not to. We will let the Senate work that out.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MATTINGLY: And, Wolf, as one official who is working with House Democrats on crafting the actual legislative language on that coronavirus relief proposal told me earlier today, now comes to the hard part.

Now comes turning the broad aspects of that $1.9 trillion proposal into actual legislative language.

We just got a sense of one of those key outstanding issues just a few moments ago, the House Ways and Means Committee chairman releasing their proposal on those direct payments, not deciding to drop the threshold for those $1,400 stimulus checks, leaving it at $75,000, but tightening the eligibility for it for higher-income earners.

The effort here is really to kind of draw some type of compromise between where more moderate Democrats were, wanting to drop it to about $50,000, and tighten that eligibility, so as not to upset progressives, again, a needle that they're going to have to thread throughout the course of the next several days, as the actual legislative text becomes public and Democrats try and figure out how they can stay unified once this process gets to the House and Senate floors -- Wolf.

BLITZER: All right, thanks very much, Phil Mattingly, with the latest.

I want to bring in former Republican Representative Mia Love into our conversation. She's now a CNN political commentator. Also joining us, CNN political commentator Bakari Sellers. He's the author of the book "My Vanishing Country."

Bakari, the White House says President Biden will not spend much, if any time watching his predecessor's impeachment trial in the Senate, the Biden administration clearly trying to keep the focus on the coronavirus relief package.

It's a balancing act for them, isn't it?

[18:10:02]

BAKARI SELLERS, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: I mean, I guess it is, Wolf, but I think the president is doing the right thing here.

The Senate can handle -- and I have always said this, that Democrats can walk and chew gum at the same time. The Senate can handle the impeachment hearings. Right now, though, the American people need relief. And his focus should be his $1.9 trillion stimulus package, amongst other things.

I mean, when he received or when he took over on January 20 as president of the United States, he received a country that was in shambles. And so now it's no longer an excuse that the president is Donald Trump. This is now Joe Biden's presidency. This is Joe Biden's America. And we have to move forward on his watch.

So, I'm appreciative that he's actually focusing on the issues of the American people, and not the 45th president of the United States. We can talk about that here on TV, and the Senate can handle their business with the impeachment trial. Let the president of the United States lead going forward.

BLITZER: And, Mia, you served in Congress, so you're keenly aware of what it takes to get legislation of this magnitude -- it is nearly a $2 trillion package -- passed.

How important is it that members of the majority party are on the same page right now, especially when the margins are so thin in both the House and the Senate?

MIA LOVE, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I agree with Bakari on this that I'm glad that the president is actually focusing on legislation that is actually going to help the American people.

The only thing that I would say is, it's incredibly important that this stimulus package is a bipartisan package. All of the other packages have been bipartisan. We need a little bit more unity. We need to make sure that everybody has some sort of representation at the table, and that this is a targeted relief, not just a blanket relief, just to make sure that the people who really need help actually get the help.

So, I -- again, I agree. I think it's time for grownups to act like grownups in Washington, and remember that it's not about them, and it's about the American people that are having to suffer because of everything that's going on in Washington right now.

BLITZER: You make an important point. All the previous emergency COVID relief packages that were passed last year passed overwhelmingly with bipartisan support in the House and the Senate.

Jim Acosta is still with us as well. What are you hearing, Jim, first of all? Will the former President

Donald Trump be watching his own impeachment trial? I'm sure he will be.

ACOSTA: Yes, I think of course he will be, Wolf.

And if you talk to people who've been talking to him over the last couple of weeks, they tell us and they have been telling me over the last couple of days that Trump has been watching all of this unfold, that he was watching the House impeachment proceedings when they were under way. He was taking notice of which House lawmakers were voting against him on the Republican side.

I suspect, Wolf, he will be doing the same when the Senate trial unfolds over the coming weeks. Perhaps it'll just be over the coming week. But he will be watching to see which Republican senators vote against him, vote to convict in this trial.

But, Wolf, I'm told by my sources that the president is -- the former president is not worried about being convicted at this point. He thinks he will be acquitted, mainly because he does not believe that the Republicans will offer up 17 senators who will join Democrats, which is what they need to get that 67 -- number of 67 senators to vote to convict the former president.

And, by and large, what we're hearing from Republican senators at this point and sources who talk to those senators is that they're mainly going to rest their arguments to acquit the president on process grounds, that they believe that this is unconstitutional for a former president to stand trial in the Senate.

And that may just be the escape hatch the Republicans are looking forward to get out of this mess. However, they will obviously have the screws put to them during this impeachment trial.

Democrats have made it very clear they're going to show this very disturbing video that we all watched on January 6, that we're going to see clips of Trump supporters saying that they were basically taking their cues from the former president and so on.

So, this is going to be uncomfortable for Republicans in the Senate, uncomfortable for Republicans across the country, perhaps not so uncomfortable for former President Trump, because he believes he's not going to be convicted in all this.

BLITZER: Yes, you need 17 Republicans, assuming all 50 Democrats vote in favor of conviction. You need 17. And that's a pretty, pretty high hurdle.

I want to bring in Laura Coates, our senior legal analyst, into this conversation.

The former president's defense team, Laura, says his instructions were to fight like hell, were not literal words, when he was speaking just before that mob stormed Capitol Hill, when he said fight like hell. Will they be able to successfully make that case? LAURA COATES, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Gee, where have we heard this

before, don't take former President Trump literally, just take him seriously, or was it literally? Which one was it?

You have a regurgitation of a similar argument that was made when he first became the president of the United States. And, frankly, they're going to have to prove more than the idea literal and semantics. It is going to be about whether the president of United States, at the time he was the president, incited people to violence, but to prove whether or not he intended to do so, and that the actual environment in which statements were made did in fact have that result.

[18:15:15]

And so thinking about the intent, it's not just the one isolated word in a vacuum, Wolf. It's going to be about the overall contextual clues and the holistic evaluation of his comments before, during and after that will lead you to be able to be able to be persuaded or not.

BLITZER: In a new brief, Laura, the House impeachment managers, the Democrats, they say there's no valid excuse for Mr. Trump's actions.

What do we know about how they plan to support their case for conviction?

COATES: Well, they're going to have to do more than what the average person saw on January 6. They're going to have to go beyond what we all saw on camera and talk about why President Trump was in a very unique position.

They called him a powder keg to be able to incite people to action, why he was in a unique position to actually stop and counteract the actual insurrection, that he had this thumb on the scale beforehand to encourage, as well as to encourage people not to quell it.

They're go to have to go into those great details about those issues. But, ultimately, It's going to come down to, Wolf, figuring out how to persuade us in the court of public opinion, but 50 Republican senators who are already inclined perhaps not to go along with A conviction and say, look, it's more than what you saw on January 6.

Now, witnesses are going to help that, witnesses like perhaps, I Would even think of Vice President Mike Pence. I doubt he will be called. But he would be able to tell us what actually happened that day. Other people who were behind the scenes who were not in front of the camera. Perhaps a telephone call that was inadvertently made to Senator Mike Lee, but trying to reach Senator Tommy Tuberville instead.

What was going on there? As well as the White House aides who could be able to substantiate or contradict Senator Ben Sasse's statements that the president was delighted. These are all people who had a role, an eyewitness hand account. They have got to be called to give the full accounting of what happened.

BLITZER: Well, we will see there if there are witnesses. No final decision that point yet. All right, guys, stand by.

Just ahead, House Democrats are about to get their second chance to prosecute Donald Trump in the U.S. Senate. I will talk to the lead impeachment manager during Trump's first trial. There you see him, the Intelligence Committee chairman, Adam Schiff. He's standing by live.

And states are being warned right now against lifting restrictions too soon, even as COVID-19 trends are -- repeat -- are moving in the right direction.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:21:23]

BLITZER: So, the rules are now set in the U.S. Senate after the second impeachment trial of Donald Trump.

On the eve of these historic proceedings, I'm joined now by the lead impeachment manager during Trump's first impeachment trial a year ago, the House Intelligence Committee chairman, Adam Schiff.

Congressman, thanks so much for joining us.

During that first Trump impeachment trial, you relied heavily -- you wanted to call witnesses, but you couldn't call witnesses. Would that case have been even stronger with witnesses who were called? What do you think about witnesses being called in this second impeachment trial?

REP. ADAM SCHIFF (D-CA): In the case last year, yes, I think our case would have been stronger if, for example, we had been able to get John Bolton to testify. And his testimony may have led to other witnesses.

It still would have been very uphill. But, nonetheless, at least there was the prospect of changing some minds having firsthand testimony about President Trump's withholding of hundreds of millions of dollars in military aid to Ukraine to get that country to extort them into helping him cheat in the election.

In terms of the upcoming trial, I really leave it to Jamie Raskin and the current team of managers about how they think that the case should be best tried. The one thing that they have that we didn't is that the moment they step on the Senate floor, there will be over 100 witnesses present, because, of course, all of the House members and senators witnessed the terrible events of that day.

But whether they want to call additional witnesses, I leave to their good judgment.

BLITZER: The Democrats certainly want this trial to go quickly. So do the Republicans, for that matter.

But is there a risk, Congressman, that moving too quickly will give them less time to paint a full picture of exactly what happened at the U.S. Capitol? SCHIFF: I think that the rules that have been hammered out already give both House and defense adequate time to make the case. And the case is going to be really powerful for the House.

I think the managers will demonstrate a whole course of events. The Trump team may want to focus on just January 6, and ignore everything else.

But the House managers are going to show the country all of the president's lies before the election, his unwillingness to commit to accepting the results of the election, his lies during the election and after the election, his effort to get local elections officials to ignore their duty, and to get state elections officials like the secretary of state in Georgia to mysteriously find 11,780 votes.

This was his last-ditch effort, part of a series of efforts aimed at overturning the election on January 6, when he incited that mob. And it's that complete picture that will be so powerful that the managers will be presenting.

BLITZER: The Trump defense attorneys that will argue that evidence of planning by some of the Capitol rioters in the days leading up to the insurrection actually absolves the former president of any responsibility.

How do you respond to that?

SCHIFF: Well, a couple of things.

First of all, all the president's actions up until the election to incite those people, to inflame them with lies about the election, with lies about their country being stolen and the process being rigged, all of that contributed to those who assembled on the Mall that day.

And then knowing what that crowd was, lighting the fuse, the way Donald Trump did, telling them to fight like hell or they wouldn't have a country anymore, sending them marching off to the Capitol, and then gleefully watching as they rampaged through the building, threatening to hang Mike Pence, all of those actions are completely inconsistent with his constitutional duty to uphold the law, uphold the Constitution.

[18:25:16]

And so they are clearly impeachable. And it's not much of a defense, I think, for the Trump team to rely upon.

BLITZER: Yes, speaking about the former vice president, Republican Congresswoman Liz Cheney specifically cited Trump's tweet about Mike Pence as evidence that his thinking was premeditated, while raising the possibility of a criminal investigation.

Do you agree with her about the potential for a criminal investigation into Trump?

SCHIFF: I think there's any number of ways in which the president faces criminal exposure.

If you look, for example, at the call in Georgia, was this an effort to meddle, to defraud the voters in Georgia by trying to get that elections official to make up 11,780 votes out of thin air? That may very well be a prosecutable offense.

His incitement of that violence on the 6th may be prosecutable. We already know, in the Southern District of New York, that he is the subject of an indictment in which he is referred to as Individual 1 for his role in coordinating and directing a campaign fraud scheme.

So, there are any number of ways in which the president faces potential criminal liability. Whether that will materialize into charges, I don't know. But, nonetheless, I think the president is very much exposed in that way.

BLITZER: Yes, even if he's acquitted in the Senate, he still potentially has a lot of legal challenges ahead.

Congressman Schiff, thanks so much for joining us.

SCHIFF: Thank you, Wolf.

BLITZER: All right, we have this just coming in from Capitol Hill.

The U.S. Senate just voted to confirm Denis McDonough as President Biden's secretary of veterans affairs, the final vote, lopsided vote, 87-7. McDonough, who's very close to Biden, was White House chief of staff during former President Barack Obama's second term.

Just ahead, new progress in the battle against COVID-19, as daily cases here in the United States hit the lowest level in several months.

Plus: COVID variants are threatening that progress, with new evidence that the U.K. strain, sadly, is spreading rapidly here in the U.S.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:30:00]

BLITZER: We're retracting right now all of the latest trends in the coronavirus pandemic. Tonight, U.S. health officials are citing progress on multiple fronts, even as they warn of fast-spreading COVID-19 variants.

CNN National Correspondent Erica Hill is putting it all together for us. Erica, we heard from President Biden's top pandemic advisers once again today. Update our viewers.

ERICA HILL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, we did. We heard from that team of experts in the White House. And the good news, Wolf, is that cases and hospitalizations, for example, are continuing this downward trend that we have seen over the last couple weeks. That is something important to focus on. More vaccines are going into arms. We're now averaging 1.4 million shots a day, also good some news. But officials are stressing, especially Dr. Walensky, that as they look at these fast-spreading variants, there is real concern that these gains could be erased if those variants spread too quickly.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

HILL (voice over): Fewer new cases, fewer COVID patients in the hospital, more shots in the arms. Can these trends last?

DR. JORGE RODRIGUEZ, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: Things are better, but, baby, it ain't over, not by a long shot.

HILL: Swift-moving variants now identified in more than 30 states.

DR. ROCHELLE WALENSKY, CDC DIRECTOR: The continued proliferation of variants, for me, is a great concern and is a threat that could reverse the recent positive trends we are seeing.

HILL: The CDC says it's stepping up tracking efforts.

DR. PETER HOTEZ, PROFESSOR AND DEAN OF TROPICAL MEDICINE, BAYLOR COLLEGE OF MEDICINE: What we need to do as quickly as possible is obviously vaccinate the American people.

HILL: So far, current vaccines appear to be effective against the variant first identified in the U.K.

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: Less so against the South African, the 351, but, hopefully, we will get the virus under much better control by the time there's any indication that might become dominant.

HILL: The overall pace of vaccinations is improving.

DR. JONATHAN REINER, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: Saturday was a remarkable day. We had 1.8 million vaccines administered in the United States. If we can do that every single day, then we'll stay ahead of this.

HILL: 72 percent of distributed doses now in arms. More than 9.5 million people fully vaccinated. New York's Citi Field set to open as another mass vaccination site Wednesday morning, for the focus on taxi drivers, food service and delivery workers.

MAYOR BILL DE BLASIO (D), NEW YORK CITY, NY: These are folks we all depend on.

HILL: Average daily reported deaths stuck above 3,000, rising in nine states.

DR. CELINE GOUNDER, INFECTIOUS DISEASE SPECIALIST AND EPIDEMIOLOGIST: What we are really seeing is still the aftermath of the winter holidays, of Christmas and New Year's. So it's six to eight weeks later, people are dying from the disease.

HILL: Texas Representative Ron Wright, the first sitting member of Congress to die after being diagnosed with the virus, passed away on Sunday. Wright was 67.

More states easing restrictions, no more mask mandate in Iowa, despite top experts urging otherwise.

WALENSKY: We really need to keep all of the mitigation measures at play here if we're really going to get control of this pandemic.

HILL: In Tampa, Super Bowl fans partying like it's 2019.

[18:35:00]

The CDC promising new guidelines for schools this week, after a weeks- long standoff, a tentative agreement to get teachers and kids back to the classroom.

MAYOR LORI LIGHTFOOT (D), CHICAGO, IL: I am confident, confident, that the measures that we have and will put in place will make our schools even safer than they already are and will be a model for systems in Illinois and throughout the country.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HILL: There are also new questions tonight about domestic air travel after Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg says there is an active conversation with the CDC about possibly requiring a negative test for domestic air travel. When asked about that today, CDC Director Dr. Rochelle Walensky said this would be, in her words, yet another mitigation measure. But she and other White House officials at that briefing, stressing, Wolf, now is not the time to travel, period.

BLITZER: Yes, she's making a good point. Thanks for that.

Let's get some analysis from Dr. Richard Besser, the former acting director of the CDC, he is President and CEO of the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation. Dr. Besser, thanks, as usual, for joining us.

We're seeing some steady improvement in hospitalization, a much faster vaccine rollout unfold right now, but we're also watching the rise of these viral variants that's so concerning. Are we doing enough to stay ahead of them?

DR. RICHARD BESSER, FORMER ACTING DIRECTOR, CDC: Well, Wolf, those are positive signs, and that's terrific, but I worry in the same report where you're talking about these variants spreading around the country, you talk about a state that is removing their mask mandate. It is absolutely essentially that we continue to do steps beyond vaccination to keep this under control, and that's wearing mask, keeping apart, washing your hands and limiting travel.

And the reason for that is that the more this virus is allowed to spread in our communities, the more we're going to see these variants spreading. And the vaccines aren't as effective against some of these variants, then we could see the gains that we're so excited about right now, we could see those reversed in a very short amount of time.

BLITZER: And it wouldn't take much time at all. Officials in some states, Dr. Besser, are already easing restrictions. How risky is that right now?

BESSER: It's incredibly risky. We're having conversations about how to get kids into school safely. And we're seeing science that says we can do that. But one of the factors we need to pay very close attention to is what's going on in the community where the schools are. And so measures that ease up the restrictions in communities while we're trying to get kids back in school, they work against each other.

And, you know, we don't want to do anything that is going to make it harder to get children back into school learning because we know that's where they belong.

BLITZER: They certainty do.

As you know, South Africa just paused the rollout of the AstraZeneca vaccine. That's a vaccine that hasn't yet been authorized here in the United States. They did so in South Africa after data suggested it might be much less effective against the South African variant. Do you worry that our vaccines, and the ones that have been approved here in the United States, Pfizer and Moderna, could also be rendered less effective if this virus keeps on mutating?

BESSER: Yes, it's one of those things that we need to keep looking at. And it's why -- it's one of the reasons CDC is ramping up what they call viral surveillance, the number of strains of the virus, where they are going to look at then genetically and see if they're changing.

We know from our experience with flu that, each year, it changes slightly. So we have to look at changing the vaccine. There's no reason we couldn't see that with coronavirus, where it mutates in a way that makes our vaccines less effective. It's one of the reasons we want to get people vaccinated as quickly as possible, especially those people who are on the frontline, those people who are at the greatest risk from exposure.

BLITZER: Yes, especially those -- not only frontline workers, hospital workers and other health care workers and people over 65 who are the most threatened right now.

We're expecting new guidance, Dr. Besser, this week from the CDC on safely reopening schools, which is so, so important, as you and I know. You're the former acting CDC director. What kind of detailed information would you like to see?

BESSER: Yes. You know, when I looked at the previous guidance, it was pretty detailed. And if schools can do what was in there, if they're getting the resources from Congress, if they're able to implement that, that means hiring staff to do screening, hiring staff to do cleaning, having the space to decompress classrooms so there aren't as many children sitting so close together, looking at ventilation systems so that they're providing clean air, those do things a lot, ensuring everyone is wearing masks. Those are big steps. And I've been really excited about by the science that's showing that you can -- following those measures, you can reopen schools safely. I think that teachers belong in the high-risk essential worker group, so that they are being prioritized for vaccine, along with other essential workers.

[18:40:02]

But what we are seeing from these studies and from experience around the globe is that vaccination is not a requirement in order to open schools safely. It's an added thing that should be there, but I think that we should be getting our kids back in school safely.

BLITZER: Yes. And, if at all possible, I think those teachers should get the vaccine as quickly as possible.

Dr. Besser, thank you so much for joining us.

BESSER: Thanks a lot, Wolf.

BLITZER: Just ahead, we got new details on security over at the U.S. Capitol for the Trump impeachment trial that begins tomorrow, this a month after the deadly insurrection at the U.S. Capitol.

And new video captures a key figure in the riot talking about Trump's influence on his actions.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:45:12]

BLITZER: In the wake of the deadly capitol insurrection, extraordinary security will be in place tomorrow for the start of former President Trump's second Senate impeachment trial.

CNN's Brian Todd is joining us. He's got details.

Tell us more, Brian.

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right, Wolf.

Among those security measures, sources telling CNN tonight that House Democratic impeachment managers are being flanked by a security detail everywhere they go inside the U.S. Capitol. National guardsmen are patrolling, fencing is still in place and we're told that law enforcement officials are monitoring potential suspects for potential violence.

Meanwhile, we have new information tonight on how some of those charged in this case could be defending themselves in court.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JACOB CHANSLEY, CHARGED IN ASSAULT ON CAPITOL: We won (EXPLETIVE DELETED) day. TODD (voice-over): As he crowed about the breach of the Capitol on January 6th, alleged rioter Jacob Chansley also made a comment about taking direction from then-President Donald Trump.

CHANSLEY: Donald Trump asked everybody to go home. He just said -- he just put out a tweet, it's a minute long. He asked everybody to go home.

TODD: This video recently obtained by CNN shows how closely some rioters were listening to Trump. Chansley's attorney claims his client, the so-called QAnon Shaman, who wore a headdress, face paint and carried a spear inside the capitol was heavily influenced by the former president and duped by Trump.

AL WATKINS, ATTORNEY FOR JACOB CHANSLEY: He loved Trump, every word. He listens to him. He felt like he was answering the call of our president.

TODD: And other rioters are using the Trump made me do it defense.

The attorney for Emanuel Jackson (ph), charged with assaulting police officers after he hit them with a baseball bat, wrote in court filings that the capitol attack was, quote, an event inspired by the president of the United States and that Trump roused the crowd at a rally on the ellipse before the riot.

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT: We fight like hell, and if you don't fight like hell, you're not going to have a country anymore.

TODD: One legal analyst says that defense may not fly with judges and juries in the trials of these defendants.

ELIE HONIG, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: The president told me to do it is simply not a recognized defense. It's consistent with the idea that just following orders is not a defense. And here, we're not even talking about orders from a direct superior to anyone who have to listen to him. So, I don't think -- I think a lot of judges will not even permit this defense to be made.

TODD: Trump's attorneys argue he did not incite the rioters.

Meanwhile, the courts are grappling over whether Ethan Nordean, a West Coast leader of the far right pro-Trump group the Proud Boys should be released from jail ahead of his trial. Prosecutors say Nordean prepared for the riot before January 6th, by collecting money online and asking for donations of protective gear and they argued he should remain in jail, saying, if he was freed, he could coordinate with other Proud Boys associates for more attacks on the government.

GREG EHRIE, VICE PRESIDENT OF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND ANALYSIS, ANTI- DEFAMATION LEAGUE: We're very well aware that members of the Proud Boys and other extremist groups are in contact with one another and certainly have the intent and the capability that whether they'll strategize and act out on that, that we're watching very closely.

(END VIDEOTAPE) TODD (on camera): And meanwhile, tonight, we have new information on what is believed to now be the youngest person charged in this investigation. Investigators say that Bruno Joseph Cua of Milton, Georgia, 18 years old, has been charged with assaulting a police officer, civil disorder, obstruction of official proceedings, and entering a restrictive building. Prosecutors say that he was seen on the Senate floor and he was also seen in an altercation with plainclothes officers.

Eighteen-year-old Bruno Joseph Cua of Georgia, Wolf, now the youngest person charged in this case. No attorney for him has been listed.

BLITZER: Yeah, some 200 people already have been criminally charged in respect to what's going -- what happened on January 6th.

Brian, thank you very, very much.

Just ahead, what Secretary of State Antony Blinken told me about how the Biden administration will approach relations with America's adversaries and how that differs from President Trump.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:53:33]

BLITZER: Last hour here in THE SITUATION ROOM, I spoke with the new secretary of state, Antony Blinken, about some major global challenges facing the Biden administration right now.

Here's a portion of that interview.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: President Biden is warning that he won't, in his words, hesitate to raise the cost on Russia, but so far, the Biden administration hasn't offered any specifics. What does that cost from your perspective look like?

ANTONY BLINKEN, SECRETARY OF STATE: Well, first, I think when it comes to Mr. Navalny, the fact the Russia feels compelled, that Mr. Putin feels compelled to try to silence one voice speaks volumes about how important that voice is and how it's representative of so many millions of Russians who want to be heard and who are fed up with the corruption and with the kleptocracy.

But what we're doing is, first of all, consulting and working closely with other countries who are very concerned about what's happened, not just to Mr. Navalny but others who have stood up to exercise their rights. But, second, Wolf, as you know, it seems apparent that a chemical weapon was used to try to kill Mr. Navalny. That violates the Chemical Weapons Convention and other obligations that Russia has. It violates clear sanctions that Congress has.

We're reviewing that. We're looking at that very carefully. And when we have results, we'll take action in the appropriate way. BLITZER: You're facing a stalemate apparently when it comes to Iran,

the Iran nuclear deal. Iran's ayatollah says the U.S. needs to lift sanctions before it returns to the deal.

[18:55:03]

President Biden says he won't lift sanctions first.

So, what happens now?

BLINKEN: Well, look, the president has been very clear about this. If Iran returns to compliance with its obligations under the nuclear agreement, we would do the same thing and then we would work with our allies and partner to try to build a longer and stronger agreement, and also bring in some of these other issues like Iran's missile program, like its stabilizing actions in the region that need to be addressed as well.

The problem we faced now, Wolf, is that in recent months, Iran has lifted one restraint after another that was -- they were being held in check by the agreement. We got out of the agreement. Iran started to lift the various restraints in the agreement, and the result is that they are closer than they've been to having the capacity on shorter to produce fissile material for a nuclear weapon.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: We appreciate it, of course, Secretary Blinken for taking the time to speak about these very, very important issues, several others as well.

And we'll have more news right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: I'll be back tomorrow for our special coverage of the second impeachment trial of Donald Trump. Our coverage begins tomorrow at noon Eastern.

Thanks very much for watching.

"ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT" starts right now.

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