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AstraZeneca U.S. Trials Effective And Safe; White House Still Denying Crisis At The Border; Families Of Shooting Victims In Atlanta Seeking Justice; Sen. Tammy Duckworth (D-IL) Is Interviewed About Asian-American Hate Crimes And The Border Crisis; Former Top Prosecutor: Trump May Be "Culpable" For Capitol Insurrection, Rioters Could Still Face Sedition Charges; Investigation Finds Shocking Examples Of Torture By Police In Belarus. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired March 22, 2021 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[17:00:00]

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: He died last Thursday. His family held a burial earlier today. His wife wants the world to remember his love, his spirit, and his integrity for all mankind. To the Jahwar family, our condolences. May his memory be a blessing. Our coverage on CNN continues right now.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: Welcome to our viewers in the United States and around the world. Wolf Blitzer is off today. I'm Pamela Brown in THE SITUATION ROOM.

And we're following key new developments in the coronavirus crisis, including results from the U.S. trial of the AstraZeneca vaccine which shows it is 79 percent effective against symptomatic COVID. The trial also found no increased risk of blood clots after concerns prompted some European countries to temporarily halt administering that vaccine.

Meanwhile, the head of the CDC is warning that virus variants could spark what she calls another avoidable surge. Fear of increased infections has prompted Miami Beach to extend an emergency curfew as spring break crowds throng the city.

And we're also following the situation along the southern border. The White House again declining to call it a crisis even as the number of children being held in overcrowded facilities nears almost 5,000. The news media has not yet been given access, but a Texas congressman is sharing troubling images of the conditions in one facility.

We begin this hour with more on the latest promising vaccine news. CNN's Alexandra Field is in New York with the details. So Alexandra, Americans could have a fourth vaccine available to them in a matter of weeks, right?

ALEXANDRA FIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (on camera): Absolutely. A big development when you talk about a fourth vaccine coming, but what we're also seeing when we look at the numbers of vaccinations nationwide is that with just three vaccines currently available, some states are still saying they could move ahead of President Joe Biden's May 1st deadline to open up vaccine eligibility to all adults.

Arizona, the latest state to join the list saying that later this week they'll offer vaccines to people age 16 and up at several state-run sites and Pamela, it can't come fast enough. Images of spring breakers will prove to you so many people are rushing to get back to normal.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FIELD (voice-over): Spring breakers wreaking havoc for the city of Miami Beach.

DAN GELBER (D), MAYOR OF MIAMI BEACH, FLORIDA: Well, it feels in some ways like our city is a tinder right now. You know, we're one of the few destinations open and so people are flocking here in huge numbers. Some of the folks that are coming are coming with bad intentions. There's been brawls and even gun play.

FIELD (voice-over): Police firing pepper balls into a crowd of partiers. The city now closing causeways at 10:00 p.m. implementing an 8:00 p.m. curfew Thursday through Sunday and desperately trying to gain crowd control.

GELBER: I don't believe in finger-pointing. I can just tell you this. That right now we're being asked to, you know, take all people who are coming. The governor has said, you know, everything is open. Come on down.

FIELD (voice-over): And they are coming. A record high streak continues for pandemic era air travel with 1.5 million flyers on Sunday.

ROCHELLE WALENSKY, CDC DIRECTOR: We are at a critical point in this pandemic, a fork in the road where we as a country must decide which path we are going take.

FIELD (voice-over): New COVID-19 cases are still holding steady at about 54,000 daily nationwide. Experts are split on whether we'll see a fourth surge. And there are new concerns about a variant first detected in New York.

SCOTT GOTTLIEB, FORMER FOOD AND DRUG ADMINISTRATION COMMISSIONER: What we don't understand with 1526 is whether or not people are being reinfected with it and whether or not people who might have been vaccinated are now getting infected with it.

FIELD (voice-over): Cases are increasing in 17 states while restrictions are being eased nearly everywhere.

PHIL MURPHY, GOVERNOR OF NEW JERSEY: We're the densest state in the nation and the densest region of the nation, and we're going to continue to monitor it and continue to be very incremental in any steps that we take.

FIELD (voice-over): There is big progress on vaccinations. More than 17 percent of adults are now fully vaccinated. And the U.S. could have a fourth vaccine coming. AstraZeneca is expected to apply for emergency use authorization from the FDA soon following weeks of controversy over vaccine safety in Europe. U.S.-based clinical trials are showing positive results.

RUUD DOBBER, PRESIDENT, ASTRAZENECA'S BIOPHARMACEUTICALS BUSINESS UNIT: We are thrilled by the results we have disclosed this morning.

FIELD (voice-over): One hundred percent efficacy against severe disease and hospitalization and 79 percent against symptomatic infection. The trial identified no safety concerns and found no increased risk of blood clots.

LEANA WENN, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: The AstraZeneca vaccine is seen as the world's vaccine. It's inexpensive. It's easy to store and to transport.

FIELD (voice-over): The question now, will the new findings help improve the vaccine's global image?

(END VIDEOTAPE)

[17:04:57]

FIELD (on camera): And Pamela, a bit of a milestone to mark right here in New York City. The nation's largest school district is offering in- person classes for students' age kindergarten through 12th grade for the first time in a year. A long-awaited day. Pamela?

BROWN: Long-awaited is right. That is a very encouraging sign. CNN's Alexandra Field, thank you so much. And now let's dig deeper with Dr. Peter Hotez. He is co-director of Texas Children's Hospital Center for Vaccine Development and dean of the National School of Tropical Medicine at Baylor College of Medicine.

Thank you so much for coming on Dr. Hotez. The big question today is all about AstraZeneca. What we are learning now is that this -- AstraZeneca says that its vaccine is 79 percent effective against symptomatic disease and the trial found no safety concerns, which is especially significant after some European countries had temporarily suspended its use. What are you learning about this vaccine? What do we all need to know about it?

PETER HOTEZ, CO-DIRECTOR, TEXAS CHILDREN'S HOSPITAL CENTER FOR VACCINE DEVELOPMENT: Well, I think the first thing, Pamela, is that it confirms that there's no big safety signal or safety flare. The German government through the Paul-Ehrlich Institute issued a pretty concerning document a week or so ago, and the French and other western European countries, some southern European countries suspended its use.

The European Medical -- European Medicine's Agency, the EMA, kind of came to the rescue and said look, these are not -- these are not big concerns. They are not related to the vaccine so it's very likely. But there's still a lot of damage control that needed to be done.

So, having these results from the U.S. showing a high level of efficacy and not showing any of those clotting issues is huge because as others have pointed out, and I've been speaking about, this is one of the workhorse vaccines that we're depending on for low and middle- income countries in Africa and Latin America. So, if that vaccine gets discredited it has catastrophic implications for global health. So I think that's one piece of good news.

And it's a good vaccine. It's giving high levels of protection. You know, one thing Pamela, that was tested at an interval of four weeks apart, first dose and second dose. But some others studies have shown if you space it out even further, the efficacy goes even higher. So that's going to be something that the FDA and the VRBPAC Committee is going to have to consider.

BROWN: The picture today though is really a mixed bag because you have the new vaccine, the good news there on AstraZeneca, but then you have what's going on with spring breakers and variants found. You have warned that Florida spring breakers risk bringing the variant first found in the U.K. which is more transmissible back to their home states. Is spring break the kind of event that could spark another surge?

HOTEZ: Yes, it certainly could because spring break is happening in states like here in Texas in South Padre Island, in Galveston, and then on the Georgia coast and then in Florida where the B117 variant is a really predominant variant right now. So, this is more than a super spreader event. It could be a super, super spreader event because we know that variant is much more transmissible and more lethal.

And that's a matter of -- it's really very much a race if we can continue to accelerate the number of people vaccinated in this country. We've got about a quarter of the U.S. population has received a single dose. If we can double that quickly I think we'll be in a much better position.

But, you know, you have, unfortunately, a lot of governors releasing restrictions. People are traveling. A million travelers over the weekend and this B117 variant. So, you've got three bad guys and one good guy and the good guys are those vaccinations and it could go either way, Pamela.

BROWN: And these states you mentioned, they don't have mask mandates. We've seen these videos of the revelers not wearing the masks and so forth. We just hope this is not a super, super spreader event as you said. Dr. Peter Hotez, thank you for joining us.

HOTEZ: Thanks for having me.

BROWN: And turning now to the White House facing growing pressure over the worsening situation at the southern border where almost 5,000 migrant children are being held. CNN chief national affairs correspondent Jeff Zeleny has the very latest. So, Jeff, I mean, this is widely seen as a humanitarian crisis, but the White House so far will still not use that word.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT (on camera): Well, Pamela, for weeks, you're right, the White House has declined to call this an immigration crisis, but semantics aside, the numbers are growing and the problem is getting even worse.

We're learning tonight that the border patrol says they have already detained more migrant children this month than all of last month alone. And this is coming as the government is scrambling to find adequate housing and the White House is still urging these migrants to not come to the U.S.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ZELENY (voice-over): A new look tonight inside a crowded detention shelter at the U.S. border where these images show children and families waiting as they try to seek asylum from Central America. Five pictures released by Democratic Congressman Henry Cuellar offer the first glimpse of the rising number of migrant children crossing from Mexico.

[17:10:00]

The White House has not allowed the public to see inside as the administration insists that the humanitarian challenge is not an immigration crisis.

JEN PSAKI, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Children presenting at our border who are fleeing violence, who are fleeing prosecution, who are fleeing terrible situations is not a crisis. We feel that it is our responsibility to humanely approach this circumstance and make sure they are treated with -- treated and put into conditions that are safe.

ZELENY (voice-over): As of Sunday, CNN has learned 822 children were being held in border patrol facilities with jail-like conditions for more than 10 days, longer than the law allows, as the administration scrambles to find shelter and slow the surge of migrants.

ALEJANDRO MAYORKAS, SECRETARY OF HOMELAND SECURITY: You know, I have said repeatedly from the very outset that a border patrol station is no place for a child.

ZELENY (voice-over): Homeland Security Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas declined to say when the children would be housed in more humane conditions, saying only it will be as soon as possible.

MAYORKAS: We are working around the clock to move those children out of the border patrol facilities, into the care and custody of the Department of Health and Human Services that shelters them.

ZELENY (voice-over): Traveling to Florida today, Vice President Kamala Harris echoed that view, also insisting there was not a border crisis.

KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: We were left with a very challenging situation. We've got to treat this issue in a way that is reflective of our values as Americans and do it in a way that is fair and is humane. And -- but we have to meet the moment, and there's a lot of work going into that.

ZELENY (voice-over): For President Biden, the growing number of migrants arriving at the U.S. doorstep represents one of the biggest challenges yet of his presidency. He told CNN's Arlette Saenz he intended to visit the border.

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: At some point I will, yes.

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Do you want to see firsthand what's going on in those facilities?

BIDEN: I know what's going on in those facilities.

ZELENY (voice-over): Democratic Senator Chris Murphy was among the lawmakers who has been inside the facilities. He said he was nearly moved to tears at the sight of a 13-year-old girl sobbing in terror.

SEN. CHRIS MURPHY (D-CT): This is a humanitarian crisis in countries like El Salvador, Guatemala, Mexico where the violence is so epidemic that these children have to take this harrowing journey to the United States.

ZELENY (voice-over): Republicans have seized on the issue saying the Biden administration's policies are a magnet for migrants. The administration crisis threatening to overshadow the Biden agenda as the administration is still trying to shine a spotlight on the American Rescue Plan and explain benefits of the sweeping law.

Tonight, White House officials are also working to finalize details of a nearly $3 trillion jobs and infrastructure proposal to present to Biden as soon as this week. It would be the next item on the president's agenda.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ZELENY (on camera): Now, White House officials are telling us this evening that the size and scope of this big infrastructure plan is still being developed. But Pamela, we're learning it would be in two parts, infrastructure, of course, rebuilding the nation's roads and highways and airports would be part of it, and then domestic priorities would be a second part.

You may wonder why spending so much more after just, you know, passing that $1.9 trillion COVID relief bill. That was simply to sort of recover America from its pandemic fight. This is to build the country back better as the campaign pledge went. But Pamela, there's no question all of this is being overtaken for now at least by the immigration crisis. Pamela?

BROWN: CNN's Jeff Zeleny. Thank you, Jeff.

And up next. Families of victims of the Atlanta spa shootings call for justice as police investigate the motive and a potential hate crime.

And we'll talk to Senator Tammy Duckworth. She is calling on the attorney general to use the full force of the Justice Department to investigate and prosecute anti-Asian hate crimes.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:15:00]

BROWN: It's been nearly one week since the Atlanta-area spa shootings, but the investigation still hasn't produced hate crime charges against the suspect. CNN's national correspondent Ryan Young is in Atlanta. So what's the latest, Ryan?

RYAN YOUNG, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (on camera): You know, we're still following all the details on this impending investigation here, but one of the things that we've seen is thousands of people show up to show support to the community that's around this area. And one of the things that we did today. We were able to hear from somebody who was inside the spa who had to avoid being shot when the gunfire started.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MARCUS LYON, WITNESS: They probably gave me like two robes on my neck and then all of a sudden I just heard that first gunshot go off, you know, and I just -- we both stood up and looked around and then heard that other gunshot.

YOUNG (voice-over): This afternoon, Marcus Lyon knows he's one of the lucky ones to make it through the mass shootings and Metro Atlanta last week that left eight dead. He told our Brianna Keilar about the shots that came out of nowhere and the woman who may have saved his life.

LYON: She was by the door. That's when I jumped behind the bed and then once she opened up that door, I heard that third gunshot and she actually dropped and I'm pretty sure she got shot in her head.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: I've heard that you feel that your masseuse ultimately saved your life.

LYON: Yes because I feel like if she wouldn't have, you know, been right there in front of the door, I felt like he probably would have just came inside there.

YOUNG (voice-over): We're also learning more about the victims. The family of Xiaojie Tan told CNN's Natasha Chen that Tan, the owner of Young's Spa was days away from turning 50. Her daughter Jami Webb said she had plans to meet her mom and overslept. She would never see her again.

JAMI WEBB, DAUGHTER OF XIAOJIE TAN: When I thought that I have all this time with her, I mean, just because I missed that Sunday meeting with my mom, I thought we could always meet like any Sunday, any other day just like before.

YOUNG (voice-over): Investigators are still sifting through the evidence. The suspect faces multiple murder charges, but so far he hasn't been charged with hate crimes.

MICHAEL WEBB, EX-HUSBAND OF XIAOJIE TAN: This was a massacre. We have a -- we have a justice system and he'll have to be held accountable, and our family will be involved in that process as much as we can be.

UNKNOWN: Stop the Asian hate!

UNKNOWN: Stop the Asian hate!

UNKNOWN: Power to the people!

[17:20:01]

YOUNG (voice-over): Across the country this weekend, the voices got louder and louder as protesters are calling for change, calling to be scene.

UNKNOWN: People united can never be defeated.

YOUNG (voice-over): Americans wanting to be heard, no longer willing to stay on the sidelines when it comes to hate.

UNKNOWN: I am proud to be Asian!

(APPLAUSE)

UNKNOWN: I want to hear this. I am proud to be Asian!

UNKNOWN: I am proud to be Asian!

UNKNOWN: I belong here!

YOUNG (voice-over): Senator Raphael Warnock, a Georgia Democrat says his thoughts are with the victims' families and he's watching to see how law enforcement moves forward.

SEN. RAPHAEL WARNOCK (D-GA): I'm hearing a lot about the shooter, but these precious lives that have been lost, they are attached to families. You know, they are connected to people who love them, and so we need to keep that in mind. I know that -- look, law enforcement will go through the work that they need to do, but we all know hate when we see it.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

YOUNG (on camera): We now the Cherokee County Sheriff's Department released a statement in the last 25 minutes or so saying they will be making no more statements at this point, Pamela, but we know there are at least four agencies that are involved in the investigation when it comes in this case.

Of course, it goes through several different jurisdictions here in Metro Atlanta so, hopefully we'll get some more information later part of the week, but as of right now, Cherokee County Sherriff's Department saying they'll be making no more comments as of right now. Pam?

BROWN: Okay, Ryan Young, thanks so much for the latest there. And joining us now is Democratic Senator Tammy Duckworth of Illinois. Senator Duckworth, good to see you. Thank you so much for coming on. You wrote to the attorney general and FBI director, calling on them to

use the full force of the Justice Department to investigate and prosecute anti-Asian hate crimes. Have you received a response yet?

SEN. TAMMY DUCKWORTH (D-IL): I have not. I did just send a letter this past week so I want to give them a chance to respond, but we know that hate crimes against Asian-Americans in particular have been underreported and under documented now for decades.

BROWN: That is true, and not a single Republican is supporting the bill that would make it easier for Asian-Americans to report hate crime. So, what are you hearing from GOP colleagues behind the scenes? Have you reached out? Have any of them reached out to you and offered support?

DUCKWORTH: You know, I'm not hearing from the behind the scenes, but remember, they also -- in the House, there were Republicans who voted against a simple resolution to condemn violence against Asian- Americans as a result of the coronavirus, the COVID-19 crisis.

And Mitch McConnell didn't even allow that resolution up for a vote in the Senate. So, you know, if I can't get my Republican colleagues to vote to condemn violence against Americans of Asian descent as a result of, you know, the rhetoric against COVID-19, I'm not surprised that they haven't signed on to this. I am, however, very disappointed.

BROWN: I want to switch gears to immigration and what's going on at border. We have now obtained these images right here of severe overcrowding at a border patrol facility in Texas.

You have argued that the system was broken under Trump, but when you look at these pictures, this is happening under President Biden. Should the Biden administration have been better prepared for this influx?

DUCKWORTH: Well, remember, that what happened was that President Trump spent four years dismantling the process -- sorry, President Trump spent four years dismantling the peaceful orderly process of allowing people to apply for asylum. For example, he cut funding to the northern triangle countries.

He cut funding and shut down offices where immigrants could actually apply for asylum in their home countries without coming to the border. And so, you know, I'm very confident that President Biden is doing everything that he can, but frankly, he's cleaning up a mess that was left there by President Trump and his systematic and inhumane attacks on the immigration system.

BROWN: I just want to press you a little bit on this because this is a capacity issue we're seeing. There are two issues. Right there is securing the border and dealing with that, and then also the capacity to deal with those unaccompanied minors that are coming across the border.

We know it's cyclical. We know that the numbers were rising under Trump and they have risen more under Biden. So, should the Biden administration have done more to make sure they have the capacity, they had better conditions for these children? Hundreds are in CBP control longer than the legal limit of three days

DUCKWORTH: You should also know that the average length of stay has dropped significantly. Under President Trump, their average length of stay for minors was well over a year within their detention system and it's dropped down into the months. That's still not acceptable. We need to do better, certainly, but I have every confidence that President Biden is putting every resource he has to this.

[17:24:57]

I understand he's brought in FEMA to try to help the situation. And one thing I'm sure is that President Biden will bring a humane solution to the problem, not what President Trump did which was, by the way, included taking away breastfeeding children, babies away from their mothers.

I remember sitting in a meeting with then Secretary Kelly and saying, are you seriously taking breast feeding children away from their mothers? And he said, "Yes, that sounds like a good deterrent to me." Well, that's inhumane and that's not acceptable.

BROWN: Yes.

DUCKWORTH: So I know that President Biden will put every resource he has to this, but he will also do it in a humane way and in a way that will reopen the pathways for people to apply for asylum so that they stay in their home countries and not come to the border.

BROWN: Senator Tammy Duckworth, thank you so much for coming on.

DUCKWORTH: Thank you.

BROWN: And a quick programming note. Tonight at 9:00 eastern, join Anderson Cooper, Amara Walker, Victor Blackwell and Ana Cabrera for a closer look in violent acts against people of color, "Afraid: Fear in America's Communities of Color" airs tonight at 9:00 eastern.

And coming up, a former top prosecutor says former President Trump may be culpable in the capitol siege.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:30:33]

BROWN: A former acting U.S. attorney says former President Trump may be culpable in the Capitol siege. That comes as there was a court appearance today by one of the accused rioters. CNN Justice Correspondent Jessica Schneider has all the latest developments. So, Jessica, update our viewers.

JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, you know, Pam, this former acting U.S. attorney here in Washington, Michael Sherwin, he is saying this sprawling investigation into the Capitol insurrection, it could potentially target former President Trump. And this revelation comes as federal judges are expressing their disgust into some of the accused rioters conduct and now refusing to release them pending trial.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SCHNEIDER (voice-over): Tonight, George Tanios, one of the two men accused of assaulting Capitol Police Officer Brian Sicknick, who later died and two other officers will stay behind bars after a federal judge in West Virginia lashed out at him, saying, "I can't accept anyone who will not respond to law enforcement under these circumstances other than a peaceful way". Prosecutors presented more than a dozen exhibits to make their case that Tanios should stay locked up.

Pointing to this video from The Convo Couch of Tanios says alleged accomplished Julian Khater grabbing bear spray from a backpack on January 6th, and this photo of the two men allegedly plotting their attack. Prosecutors also played video from police body cameras in court that haven't yet been released, and showcase these screenshots of the three officers who were hit by the chemical spray huddled together with their heads down. An FBI agent testified they were all temporarily blinded.

Officer Sicknick later collapsed in an office and died at the hospital a day later. The medical examiner still has not disclosed the cause of Sicknick's death. And while Tanios and Khater are charged now with assault, the man who led the riot investigation for the past two months revealed they could eventually be charged with murder.

MICHAEL SHERWIN, FORMER ACTING D.C. U.S. ATTORNEY: If evidence directly relates that chemical to his death, yes, we have causation, we have a link, yes. And that scenario, correct, that's a murder case.

SCHNEIDER (voice-over): Former Acting U.S. Attorney Michael Sherwin says he expects more people will be charged including for sedition, that's conspiracy to overthrow the government.

SHERWIN: I believe the facts do support those charges. And I think that as we go forward, more facts will support that.

SCHNEIDER (voice-over): And Sherwin still isn't ruling out that the former President himself could face charges.

SHERWIN: It's unequivocal that Trump was the magnet that brought the people to D.C. on the 6th. Now the question is, is he criminally culpable for everything that happened during the siege, during the breach? We have plenty of people. We have soccer moms from Ohio that were arrested, saying, well, I did this because my President said I had to take back our house. That moves the needle towards that direction.

Maybe the President is culpable for those actions, but also you see in the public record too, militia members saying, you know what, we did this because Trump just talks a big game. He's just all talk. We did what he wouldn't do.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In short, you have investigators looking into the President's role.

SHERWIN: We have people looking at everything correct. Everything's being looked at.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCHNEIDER: And the D.C. Attorney General's office is also looking into whether Trump's role in the insurrection violated district law. And all indications now are they are consulting with the U.S. Attorney's office about any possible future charges. But this would be a big and difficult charge to bring since there are clear free speech considerations. And of course, Pamela, the former President has repeatedly denied inciting any violence. Pam?

BROWN: CNN's Jessica Schneider. Thanks so much, Jessica.

And let's get more on all of this with CNN Legal Analyst Shan Wu and CNN Counterterrorism Analyst Phil Mudd. Great to see you both. Shan, I want to go to you first on this idea that we heard from Sherwin that Trump may be culpable. What does that mean exactly? What would the threshold be to actually charge the former President?

SHAN WU, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: It's the same threshold as any other charges got to be probable cause which they wouldn't be developing an investigation. I do want to say it's very peculiar and odd that Sherwin has opined this way. Prosecutors avoid the use of the word I in court and certainly into the press. So his opining on this certainly causes me to think it's a very unusual situation.

BROWN: But when you say probable cause -- and I understand that point too, that it is unusual, as someone who covered the Justice Department, I was surprised he was speaking so freely. But when you say probable cause, what would it take? What would they need to prove that exactly?

[17:35:10]

WU: Well without knowing what they're finding in the communications and the computers, text messages, et cetera, I would think along the lines of what Sherwin saying, which is, if you have a lot of people saying that they did this because Trump directed them to do that, that would be evidence you have.

Obviously, if there was some evidence of his or people working for him in touch directly with a group, then that would be much stronger evidence. I do think it's a little bit tough as a stretch, if they just have people like Sherwin saying soccer mom saying they did it because, you know, Trump said to do it, I think that's a little bit weak for a criminal case.

BROWN: Why? And also on the other side, he mentioned that other side, well, I did it regardless of Trump. I mean, so how much weight, Phil, do -- does this carry what people are telling investigators about how much the President influenced them?

PHIL MUDD, CNN COUNTERTERRORISM ANALYST: Let me agree with the tone of what we're talking about here. I think this is -- it carry some weight, because obviously they're talking about they are inspired by the President or not inspired by the President but I think this would be really difficult to prove. Remember, Pamela, we're transitioning from cases, trespassing assault of a police officer where you have video, where you have these people on video using chairs to break down a window. I mean, it's pretty clear what they're doing at the Capitol, they're trespassing.

You're transitioning to sedition, trying to say that someone's intent what was inside their head was to overthrow the government. I think this is a tough one. And I'll close by completely agreeing. Why is he talking about this? Jim Comey taught us don't talk about ongoing cases until you choose to make a step in terms of an indictment.

Why is he doing this and putting pressure on his successor who's now faced with the question, are you going to charge or are you not going to charge? Because your predecessor who is just in the media is saying we got the evidence.

BROWN: Yes, it is interesting because if they don't charge anyone with sedition, then you know like that this prosecutor essentially wanted them to do that but they chose not to. It just puts them in a bit of a bind here.

And I thought it was interesting when Sherwin basically cautioned about the sedition charge at the same time, he said it is not a low bar to charge someone. This is your old office at the D.C. U.S. Attorney's Office, do you agree with him? How hard is it to prove that, Shan?

WU: I think they do have to have evidence of planning to prove that and they might be able to get that for the people actually in the Capitol doing it planning to get there. I think it's still saying trying to move up that chain to the President or to members of Congress, they're going to need some pretty tight nexuses or that, and they would certainly have to run that up the chain at Main Justice with the Deputy Attorney General and the Attorney General weighing in.

I mean, I will say on behalf of my old office, the current interim, Channing Phillips, is a rock of steadiness and reliability, and they are not going to be influenced by anything except the evidence. I have complete confidence in that, Pamela.

BROWN: OK. Thank you so much for coming on sharing your analysis. Appreciate your time.

WU: Thanks, Pamela.

BROWN: And coming up on this Monday, we're going to go live to South Texas for the latest on the migrant surge and overcrowding along the border with Mexico.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:42:28] BROWN: Let's get the latest on the serious overcrowding resulting from the surge of young migrants along the U.S.-Mexican border. CNN's Rosa Flores is in Donna near the southern tip of Texas. So what are you seeing there?

ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You know, Pamela, we've been pushing the Biden administration for access on the ground. And instead, what we're seeing is just information being filtered through tweets, press releases, and now photographs that were released by U.S. Congressman Henry Cuellar, showing some of the overcrowding at the facility that you see behind me.

But we had already heard about some of these conditions more than a week ago when attorneys representing the children that are in this facility, they blew the whistle saying to CNN that capacity at the facility was about 1,000 people and that it was holding about 2,000.

I talked to one woman who was inside and she described the conditions. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

FLORES: She says there was packed with people and that they had been mattresses for her.

(FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

FLORES: She says that in the tent facility, they didn't let her shower.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FLORES: And as you take another live look here at the facility that you see behind me, there's a full-fledged construction project and expansion project. We've asked Customs and Border Protection about it, we haven't heard back. But here's the reality. We know that about 4,900 children are in Border Patrol custody, more than 800 of them have been in custody for more than 10 days, which is way over the 72- hour limit by law and another 10,500 children are in HHS care.

So while the Biden administration is stuck on whether they're calling it a crisis, or calling it a challenge and saying that their message is for migrants not to come to the border. The fact of the matter is what we're seeing here on the border, Pamela, is that migrants continue to come here. And we continue to push for access so we can get objective eyes on the ground at these processing facilities. Pamela?

BROWN: Yes. It appears certainly to be at least a capacity crisis there, as you just laid out for us. Rosa Flores, thank you very much, reporting live from Donna.

And we want to also note that Congressman Cuellar who you mentioned. I will be coming up in the next hour so you won't want to miss that. And then coming up, the more contagious COVID variant first found in the U.K. is increasingly showing up in some U.S. states. Plus, former President Trump says he is returning to social soon on his own platform. We're learning new details on his plans.

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[17:49:30]

BROWN: Now, a CNN exclusive, our investigation is finding shocking examples of torture by police trying to stamp out protests against what's widely seen as fraudulent elections in Belarus. CNN International Security Editor Nick Paton Walsh has the story for us. So Nick, some people are going to extraordinary and dangerous lengths to flee this brutal crackdown.

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN INTERNATIONAL SECURITY EDITOR: Indeed. Since elections declared fraudulent in August, the brutality has frankly been shocking. Almost redolent of the Soviet era and occurring on the outskirts of the European Union to its other side of Belarus, of course, of the authoritarian regime of Russian President Vladimir Putin deeply supportive of this crackdown inside Belarus.

[17:50:14]

Our investigation, though, into these abuses shocking as they are begins with a story of extraordinary bravery and hope.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WALSH (voice-over): Somewhere through the icy sludge here is the path to freedom. Across the border and out of what's been called Europe's last dictatorship, Belarus. Some walk if they can, one man will call him Sergei (ph) had no choice but to swim it nearly 3 miles.

Here he stands on sheet ice free, but in anguish and having to flee off just crossing out of Belarus into the safety of Ukraine. He found himself in flippers in a wetsuit to leave evidence of what he tried in case he doesn't make it.

I'll try to crawl there, he says, and hope I won't freeze. I'm navigating by the stars. The feeling is indescribable. I've been going 90 minutes and have a mile left. Been on detained before for protesting and on a wanted list, he had to flee eminent arrest and can't turn back now.

(on-camera): But his testament to how bad things have got in Belarus that people feel compelled to make this dark, perilous journey around to freedom the likes of which Europe hasn't really seen since the Soviet Union.

(voice-over): Belarus caught between Russia and the European Union has been ruled for decades by autocratic President Alexander Lukashenko. He declared victory in August elections the U.S. said were fraudulent. Huge protests followed pending moves swiftly to crush them. He and Russian President Vladimir Putin are two peas in a pod when it comes to shutting down descent. So Putin swiftly held his skiing partner with $1.5 billion and other unspecified aid. Months of systematic repression and torture followed, documented by human rights groups.

CNN has obtained from defected police officers videos exposing abuse leaks from the police's own archives. Here, the white SUV is full of activists fleeing a protest crackdown. Riot police pounce, one fires a gun. The ferocity is starting.

Some kicked where they lie. Another has had his face rubbed into the ground. Most like incredibly still. They're then detained. In custody, CNN was told mistreatment ranges from extreme cold and cramped cells to being beaten severely and sexual assault.

Andrey injured on another day, perhaps the worst abuse in the back of a police van. He refused to unlock his phone so they can't open his pants and raped him with a baton. It was hard to move at all because I'd been heavily beaten. He cut my underwear using this knife. He asked me to get the password again, I refused. And then he did what he did.

It's not just anger. Police trained to do this. We're just seeing it now a huge scale for the first time. It's touched nearly every family in Belarus. Custody is often brutal. Detainees from an October protests were filmed by police and forced to face the wall inside a central police station. Some bleeding, one with seven teeth smashed in. Some ravaged by tear gas.

Many here told us they were later beaten in custody. Some have fled Belarus. But you can also see a teenage boy motionless on the floor. Witnesses told CNN he had likely had an epileptic fit, but the police ignored him, occasionally kicking him and saying are you a boy or a girl? A minor he was released later.

In these rooms, police are still tracking down protesters. One, we'll call Anya (ph), you can see her here running from riot police. The stun grenade hit her leg badly. In hospital, doctors gave her little help, she said, but tested her blood for alcohol and rang the police to say she was a likely protester. She fled home.

ANYA, VICTIM OF BELARUSIAN POLICE VIOLENCE (through translation): I got a phone call from the police asking where I had been. I began making up stories. They said they would come and get me a unit of them. And if they take me, I thought, then I can say goodbye to my limbs because no one will look after me.

WALSH (voice-over): Police ferocity in Belarus arrived squad descending on a car here, the slowly and quietly swamped a generation desperate for a new life and calling for new nationwide protests on March the 25th.

[17:55:01]

The U.S. has imposed commonplace sanctions on the Kremlin, its usual writ of fear. It's an early test for President Biden which method will win out.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WALSH: Now I should be clear we asked the Belarusian Interior Ministry, the Foreign Ministry and the Prime Minister's Office a comment and they did not respond to that request. Presented with a summary of our findings, the U.S. State Department, they did strongly condemn the brutality of the Lukashenko regime pointed out that a number of individuals arrested are still missing and said these violent actions have destroyed the Belarusian authorities' legitimacy amongst their own people and the international community.

Coming up this week, though a vital day of protests called by the opposition and some concerns possibly too that even for the Kremlin, the level of brutality they're seeing inside Belarus maybe a little bit too much. The beginning, some say, to be concerned about a whole generation of Belarusians being put off being anywhere close to Moscow at all. Back to you.

BROWN: Powerful and important reporting. CNN's Nick Paton Walsh, thank you.

And coming up, as some states relax their COVID precautions, the head of the CDC warns the virus variants could spark another avoidable surge.

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