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The Situation Room

Derek Chauvin Trial; One-On-One With Floyd Family Lawyer; Biden Infrastructure Plan Draws Attacks From Right, Left; Interview With U.S. Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg; CDC Says, Variants, Cases Among Young People Tied to Fourth Straight Week of Increases in New COVID-19 Infections; Capitol Police Union Urges Congress to Ramp Up Security, Warns of Potential Mass Exit By Officers After Latest Attack. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired April 05, 2021 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[18:00:00]

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: He says Chauvin should have taken his knee off Floyd's neck once Floyd stopped resisting and certainly once he was in distress and motionless.

Another police inspector reinforced the chief's testimony saying Chauvin's actions were not consistent with department training and were clearly improvised.

Also in the stand today and emergency room doctor who treated Floyd, he told the court that a lack of oxygen was the likely cause of his death.

Let's start our coverage this hour with CNN's Omar Jimenez. He's covering the trial for us in Minneapolis. Omar, the police chief was a prosecution witness called to testify against anti-condemn for all practical purposes, the actions of his former police officer.

OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Wolf. We've heard from now more than 20 witnesses as part of this trial. And as we to have testimony is underway. And when you look at what we've heard over the totality of this, prosecutors are now shifting from what happened on May 25, to the training that Derek Chauvin had prior to us even getting to that date.

And what's noteworthy is we have heard from multiple senior level officers that have testified from the Minneapolis Police Department, many of them saying they do not believe that Chevron's actions should have happened the way they did now that includes the current Minneapolis police chief.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you.

JIMENEZ (voice-over): The start of week two of testimony and the current Minneapolis police chief takes the stand in the trial of Derek Chauvin, his former officer. STEVE SCHLEICHER, PROSECUTOR: Do you have any belief as to when this restraint, the restraint on the ground that you viewed should have stopped?

CHIEF MEDARIA ARRADONDO, MINNEAPOLIS POLICE: Once Mr. Floyd had stopped resisting and certainly once he was in distress and trying to verbalize that, to continue to apply that level of force to a person prone doubt, handcuffed behind their back, that in no way shape or form is anything that is by policy, it's not part of our training. And it is certainly not part of our ethics or values.

JIMENEZ: In late May, Chief Medaria Arradondo fired Chauvin and the three other officers involved a day after the incident. He wrote a letter weeks later reading and part, Chauvin knew what he was doing. And what happened to Mr. Floyd was murder.

SCHLEICHER: So is it your belief then that this particular form of restraint if that's what you -- if those were we'll call it, in fact violates departmental policy?

ARRADONDO: I absolutely agree that violates our policy.

JIMENEZ: Then the defense asked questions as part of cross- examination.

ERIC NELSON, DEFENSE ATTORNEY FOR DEREK CHAUVIN: The issue that you take with it is the length of time.

ARRADONDO: Counselor the couple of issues, is the person the threat to the officers or others, what is the severity of the crime? Are you reevaluating and assessing the person's medical condition? I vehemently disagree that that was the appropriate use of force for that situation.

JIMENEZ: But while the police background was a focus Monday, so too was the medical background as a doctor who officially declared George Floyd dead took the stand.

DR. BRADFORD WANKHEDE LANGENFELD, ER PHYSICIAN WHO ATTENDED TO GEORGE FLOYD: Any amount of time that a patient spends in cardiac arrest without immediate CPR markedly decreases the chance of a good outcome. Approximately 10 to 15 percent decrease in survival for every minute that CPR is not administered.

JIMENEZ: By that testimony, Floyd survivability would have decreased by roughly 50 percent. Prosecutors say Chauvin continued to kneel on Floyd's neck from nearly four minutes after he appeared to lose consciousness. The doctor told prosecutors his leading theory on Floyd's cause of death was cardiac arrest by oxygen deficiency, or asphyxia. The defense has pointed to drugs found in fluid system as the primary cause of death.

NELSON: There are many things that cause hypoxia that would still be considered as fixation agreed.

LANGENFELD: Correct. NELSON: Specifically, fentanyl?

LANGENFELD: That's correct.

NELSON: How about methamphetamine?

LANGENFELD: It can.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

JIMENEZ: Now the last witness call today was a commander of the training division for the Minneapolis Police Department. And when she was shown a picture of Chauvin kneeling on George Floyd's neck, here's how she responded.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

INSP. KATIE BLACKWELL, MINNEAPOLIS POLICE: I don't know what kind of improvised position that is. So that's not what we train.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JIMENEZ: And in court itself every day there's a spot reserved each for a member of the Floyd family and for someone from the Chauvin camp. In court today was one of the Floyd brothers, Terrence, who actually said he was surprised at how clear Minneapolis police policy seemed to be on this.

[18:05:07]

Meanwhile, in the Chauvin camp, deputies actually removed the chair reserved for a representative from his camp saying we'll put it back if someone actually shows up. Court will be back tomorrow morning with a brand new witness, Wolf.

BLITZER: We got lots of new developments today, Omar, stay with us. I'll also want to bring in CNN political commentator Bakari Sellers who self is a lawyer along with Natalie Jackson, a former co-counsel for the families of Trayvon Martin, Breonna Taylor and others. Also with us Cheryl Dorsey, retired LAPD Sergeant, author of the book "Black and Blue."

Sergeant Dorsey, the Minneapolis police chief testified very bluntly that Chauvin's actions were in no way, shape or form his words part of their policy or training and certainly not part of what he described as our ethics or values. How powerful do you believe that testimony was?

NATALIE JACKSON, WRONGFUL DEATH ATTORNEY: Today was the case for the murder to. What we saw today was the policy and procedures being reviewed. We also heard from the police talking about causation. And I was just saying today was the clip. It really was an outline of the case for murder to in this case.

BLITZER: Sergeant Dorsey, what do you think?

CHERYL DORSEY, RETIRED LAPD POLICE SERGEANT: I think it's going to be very difficult to argue against a sergeant, a lieutenant, a commander and ultimately the police chief, they're clear on their policies and procedures, and none of what we saw was taught. And so what the defense is going to ultimately try to do is speak to what was in Chauvin's mind because understand, it's very difficult to argue what's in someone's head.

BLITZER: Let me go back to Omar for a second before I go to Bakari. Omar, how does the community there in Minneapolis view Chief Arradondo, how much weight does his testimony carry? He's been the police chief there, what for three years.

JIMENEZ: It carries a lot of weight, because a lot of what people are looking for is sort of that traditional blue wall of silence that you might see and departments are what you've seen in police historically that police won't testify against police, they won't rat out police officers.

And what you're seeing now is, at the very least a symbolic move of the current police chief saying that what Derek Chauvin did is not representative of who we are as Minneapolis police officers. So that rings true in the community.

And on top of that, he has stayed consistent over this. You remember he fired Chauvin and these officers within 48 hours of this happening back in May, and weeks later in June, he released that letter to the community saying we believe what Derek Chauvin did was murder and make no mistakes about it.

It does not fall within our ethics and values as Minneapolis police officers. And you heard some of that play out over the course of court today, no doubt hoping to make an impact on many in the community who are watching,

BLITZER: You know, Bakari, we also heard very blunt testimony from the former commander of the police training division there in Minneapolis, the Inspector Katie Blackwell, someone who's known Derek Chauvin for some 20 years and she said Chauvin's knee on Floyd's neck is not what we train, her direct words, not what we train. How far do you think that might go with the jurors?

BAKARI SELLERS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: So I think today was the strongest day for the prosecution that we've seen. I mean, last week was very emotional. You had a lot of young people testify. You had our heartstrings being pulled, but today really went to the heart. And I don't see how you get around if you're a defense attorney like I am how you get around a guilty verdict on something.

I mean, what we saw today was he was completely reckless, negligent. And the question will be whether or not he was intentional or not, in his acts, because it's also rare, Wolf. And I want people to understand this. I mean, I'm sitting with some women who've actually done this before, in particular, but it's very rare to see law enforcement come in a courtroom, one after one after one, and actually testify against another law enforcement officer.

I mean, today was a brilliant day and a very good day for this country. Because what we saw was law enforcement quite clearly coming out and saying, what this gentleman did was wrong. These are policies extremely clearly. And this is how he violated these policies.

And so what we saw today is something that we don't see often in cases like this, and I think that's going to be the difference between a guilty and not guilty verdict. We still have a long way to go in. And I'm sure the criminal defense attorney is going to be trying to muddy the water a little bit and say that drugs played a role in his death.

But today is going to be a very difficult hurdle for them to overcome. And I don't see how you get around a guilty verdict when at least one of those charges when they go back to the jury room.

BLITZER: Of those three charges. You know, Natalie, we also heard what I thought was a very significant testimony today from that ER physician, who tried to save George Floyd's life, but once he got to the hospital. This doctor said the most likely explanation for Floyd's death was lack of oxygen. So how crucial is that to the prosecution's argument?

[18:10:08]

JACKSON: I think it's very crucial because we heard the word asphyxiation, lack of oxygen. We heard it again with the police chief when they talked about positional asphyxiation. So right now what we've heard is that George Floyd did not die from drugs.

George Ford did not die from an adrenaline rush. George Floyd did not die from over excitement. What he died from was a lack of oxygen and this is very important to prove any of the murder one our murder three charges. They have to prove that Chauvin killed George Floyd.

BLITZER: You know bakari, the ER doctor said every minute CPR wasn't administer George Floyd's chances of surviving went down and down and down. Does that emphasize the failure to provide care while Floyd was in Chauvin's custody?

SELLERS: No question about it. And again, those jurors had to be feeling that if Derek Chauvin or any of those officers actually allowed for George Floyd to receive some type of treatment, that his chances for survival would have been greater.

But you see that lack of compassion and then you start to get -- you start to get from words like reckless, you start to move on from words like negligence, you start to actually get into those words like intentional and willful. And in showing that that willful disregard for his life, and that's what we're seeing the prosecution today is making it extremely clear.

And I've laid out a brilliant case thus far. For guilt on possibly after today, something like all three charges.

BLITZER: Well, Sergeant Dorsey, how do you see it? DORSEY: Absolutely. And listen, we heard the defense post a lot of hypotheticals because that was the best that they could do today. But none of those things that they were asking, in terms of well, what about if there was a shooting and you know, other scenarios that would make the force reasonable and the duration of the force make sense, none of those things were in play.

And so I think it's going to be very difficult to overcome the credibility of the lieutenant, sergeant, commander and ultimately, the chief of police, who's clear and firm on what the policy is for his officers.

BLITZER: Yes, he was very, very clear. All right, everybody thank you very, very much. Just ahead, I'll speak to a lawyer for the George Floyd family about the police chief's testimony today that Derek Chauvin violated the department's policies and its values.

And we're going to tell you what a new CNN analysis reveals about the pace of COVID-19 vaccinations here in the United States and whether it's fast enough to prevent a fourth wave.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:16:44]

BLITZER: We're getting new reaction to the stinging (ph) testimony today against the former police officer Derek Chauvin by his ex-boss, the Minneapolis police chief declaring under oath that Chauvin kneeling George Floyd's neck violated the department's policy and the department's ethics. We're joined now by an attorney for the Floyd family Jeffrey Storms. Jeffrey, thanks so much for joining us. I want you to watch what the Minneapolis police chief said today about Chauvin's actions, watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARRADONDO: Once there was no longer any resistance, and clearly with Mr. Floyd was no longer responsive, and even motionless, to continue to apply that level of force to a person chromed out handcuffed behind their back. That in no way shape or form is anything that is by policy, is not part of our training. And it is certainly not part of our ethics or values.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: What's your reaction Jeffrey to that very strong testimony from chief Arradondo?

JEFFREY STORMS, GEORGE FLOYD FAMILY ATTORNEY: Well, he's right on the mark. And, you know, there is going to be a lot of misdirection and has already been a lot of misdirection in this case. You know, George needs to be controlled momentarily. Maybe it needs his okay momentarily.

But what the chief is telling us is, you know, we watched George lie there lifeless four minutes, there's no police purpose in holding somebody under your knee is fixating them once they're lifeless, they can't resist when they are dead.

And so to hold someone down at that point, there's absolutely zero police purpose for it, which is what's allowed for the chief and Minneapolis to engage in some pretty quick decision making regarding officer shoguns conduct.

BLITZER: George Floyd's brother, as you know, his brother Terrence said he was shocked to see how clear the Minneapolis Police Department's policies were particularly on deescalation. Is this testimony from Chief Arradondo a game changer from your perspective?

STORMS: I think so, you know, initially it was kind of like eating broccoli, right? The prosecution took us very slowly through the policies and through the trainings, but then they knocked it down one by one. They showed us how from the outset, there was no critical thinking here.

There was no thought process. And they didn't have to say it was racist, because that they don't need it to prove the case. But that's what we all saw. We saw a lack of thinking and from there, no deescalation. Immediately it's escalated, there's guns drawn their hands on their kneeling on George's neck.

And so, and then, in addition to that, Wolf, then you go on to using these police tactics that are likely to kill somebody, they're known to be able to kill somebody when you're holding somebody in the prone position. And then to top it off, you don't monitor his medical condition after that, Wolf. So, they set up each policy starting from the critical thinking and de-escalation and ended it with the complete lack of medical care.

[18:20:05]

BLITZER: Jeffrey Storms, thank you so much for joining us.

STORMS: Thanks for having me, Wolf.

BLITZER: Coming up, the Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg joins us live. We'll talk about the challenges of getting President Biden's infrastructure plan passed by Congress.

And a very, very chilling warning as a COVID-19 expert likens the surge in new cases here in the United States to what he describes as a category five hurricane.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Tonight, President Biden is vowing to fight as hard as he can as he wages a two front war to pass a sweeping and expensive infrastructure plan.

[18:25:05]

The President is fending off attacks by Republicans while also trying to unite progressives and moderates in his own party or an odds right now over the plan size and scope. Let's get some more from our chief White House correspondent Kaitlan Collins. Kaitlan, this is certainly a pillar of President Biden's early agenda. He's getting some serious pushback right now.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, he is Wolf. And it's not just coming from Republicans, though they are the primary party here pushing back on this plan, saying they don't like the way President Biden is proposing that they pay for it. But they also don't like what's in it saying it is not traditional infrastructure, at least certainly not the way people have usually thought of the way an infrastructure bill would look like.

But that is something that President Biden is pushing back on. And his aides are saying it's time to rethink the definition of infrastructure, though, of course, it's not just Republicans. They've got to appeal to Wolf, it's Democrats too, who are also criticizing some key aspects of what President Biden is laying out.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

COLLINS (voice-over): Tonight, President Biden is defending his proposal to revamp the nation's infrastructure against Republican attacks.

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: So it's interesting how their definition of infrastructure has changed. But they know they know we need it.

COLLINS: Republicans say Biden's $2 trillion plan goes far beyond what most consider to be traditional infrastructure like roads and bridges, by funding other democratic priorities like child and elderly care.

SEN. ROY BLUNT (R-MO): They're trying to take 70 percent of this bill and call it infrastructure in a new way than we've ever talked about infrastructure before.

JEN PSAKI, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: It's time for people to be bolder and more forward looking about what infrastructure looks like.

COLLINS: Republicans have also criticized how Biden wants to pay for his plan by raising the corporate tax rate from 21 percent to 28 percent.

SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY) MAJORITY LEADER: I can't imagine that's going to be very appealing to many Republicans.

COLLINS: But there are also cracks within Biden's own party. The White House is defending the corporate tax rate raise even as a critical democratic vote. Senator Joe Manchin says he won't support it.

PSAKI: If something gets too small. Frankly, there have been folks who have come out on both sides.

SEN JOE MANCHIN (D-WV): As the bill exists today, it needs to be changed.

COLLINS: Some progressive members of the party say the package itself isn't big enough.

REP. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ (D-NY): In order for us to realize this inspiring vision, we need to go way higher.

COLLINS: As that debate plays out on Capitol Hill, President Biden is weighing in on another.

BIDEN: I would strongly support them doing that.

COLLINS: the White House says Biden supports a decision by Major League Baseball to move its All Star game out of Georgia, after Republicans in the state passed a new voting law.

PSAKI: That is was their decision, they made that decision. And as he stated earlier, he certainly supports that.

COLLINS: Biden has been extremely critical of the new law calling it a 21st century version of Jim Crow, but faced criticism himself after he falsely claimed the law ends voting hours early.

BIDEN: Can't do that. Come on, or you're going to close a polling place at 5:00 when working people just get off.

COLLINS: The White House acknowledged it doesn't change Election Day voting hours today.

(on camera): But the President does acknowledge that the new law doesn't change Election Day voted hours, right?

PSAKI: Well, look, Kaitlan, it also doesn't expand them for early voting and makes early voting shorter. So there are a lot of components of the legislation he is concerned about. And that's what he was expressing.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

COLLINS: Now, we'll have another pushback that we've heard from Republicans as they think raising these tax rates, these corporate tax rates is going to drive corporations and businesses to leave the US. But when President Biden was asked about that earlier today, he pushed back and saying, said there's no evidence of that.

And we should note, of course, Wolf, all of this came on the day that his Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen called on a global -- call for there to be a global corporate tax rate. Of course, whether or not that actually happens is a question that remains to be seen what the answer is going to be.

BLITZER: Wall Street on this day seems to be very, very happy record highs for both the NASDAQ -- for the S&P 500 as well as the Dow Jones Industrial Average way, way up. At least right now. Wall Street very happy. All right. Thanks very much for that Kaitlan Collins at the White House.

Let's discuss all of this and more with the Transportation Secretary of the United States. Pete Buttigieg. Mr. Secretary, thanks so much for joining us. As you know, the Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell says President Biden's infrastructure plan would need to be in his words, completely recrafted to win any Republican votes at all. And Democrat Joe Manchin, as you just heard, he also says the bill needs to be changed. How much is President Biden, Mr. Secretary, willing to compromise?

PETE BUTTIGIEG, U.S. TRANSPORTATION SECRETARY: Well, you know, President Biden cares about a bipartisan approach and he cares about what members of the Senate and the House and the public thinks. So I think you'll see a lot of listening.

[18:30:00]

But at the end of the day, there's a clear vision from the president. It's a good vision. It's supported by the American people. It will contribute to the creation of millions jobs and we feel great about it. But, yes, of course, this is the beginning of a legislative process that will have a lot of back and forth. And I'm sure more ideas will come into the mix and that's a good thing.

BLITZER: So he is willing to compromise, is that what you're saying?

BUTTIGIEG: Well, you know, at the end to have day, he'll decide what the right balance is. But I'll tell you the vision that he already put forward, in my view, it's pretty hard to improve upon. It's paid for. It creates and contributes to the creation of millions of jobs.

It will have something like $600 billion for transportation infrastructure. It allows us to deal with 10,000 bridges around the country, get broadband out to every Americans, so many things in there that we have needed to do for a long time.

So the vision as it stands is great. I'm sure there's always room to benefit from hearing different opinions.

BLITZER: And he'll be hearing a lot of different opinions, not just from Republicans but some of his fellow Democrats as you know as well.

You say infrastructure goes beyond roads and bridges, but this bill also funds things like elderly care, home healthcare. Senator Bernie Sanders says child care should be considered as well. How is that infrastructure? Are Democrats simply tacking on other priorities and these are all critically important priorities to this massive bill and simply calling it infrastructure?

BUTTIGIEG: Well, I would say that infrastructure is the foundation that makes it possible for Americans to thrive and live lives of their choosing. And I know there's a lot of quibbling over the definition of infrastructure. I've been puzzled to hear a lot of Republicans express a view that things like water and waste water, pipes don't count as infrastructure. I think they do. They're very important for us to be able to live and thrive and have a strong economy. Same thing with broadband.

Now I know broadband is not traditional infrastructure but, you know, railroads weren't traditional infrastructure until we built them. Part of good infrastructure policy is thinking about the future. And at the end of the day, I don't want us to get lost in the semantics, because the important thing is these are good policies that the American people want and need and support. So people can call them whatever they like. And at the end of the day, this is a jobs plan and that's the president's focus.

BLITZER: It's one thing to call it a jobs plan. It's another thing to call it an infrastructure plan. But child care, elderly care, which obviously are so critically important in our country, do you consider child care, elderly care to be infrastructure?

BUTTIGIEG: Does anyone think that our child care infrastructure in this country is good enough? We don't. We think we've got to make a lot of investments in child care infrastructure to make it possible for families, parents, workers to be able to thrive.

All of these things are connected. I know there's a tendency in Washington to slice them into one piece at a time, but that's a philosophical or academic exercise. At the end of the day, this plan is about a stronger economy that helps Americans live better. And I think that's one of the reasons why it commends remarkable support among the Americans people.

And, interestingly, the research is showing, American people support it even more when they hear about how were planning to pay for it, which is asking corporations to pay their fair share.

BLITZER: As you know, the outgoing Republican senator, Roy Blunt, of Missouri says a smaller bill focused on what is traditional infrastructure would be, in his word, and I'm quoting him now, an easy win for President Biden. Why not start with a more narrow plan right now and get widespread bipartisan support?

BUTTIGIEG: I think we're here to do what's right, not necessarily what's easy, although again, we're not asking for a tough vote here on a plan that most Americans already support. And I just can't agree with the idea that cutting off something like broadband would somehow make this bill better. I think including something like broadband does make this bill better. And when you added it all up, it's better than some of its parts.

BLITZER: On Sunday you claimed one analysis found in this plan would lead, in your words, to 19 million jobs. That's not true, as our fact checker, Daniel Dale, just wrote about. The analysis is talking about the overall economy and finds this Biden plan will contribute a net 2.7 million jobs. Can you set the record straight for us?

BUTTIGIEG: Yes, I should be precise about this. So Moody's modeled future, a scenario where the American jobs plan is passed. And in that scenario, they see the American economy creating 19 million jobs. And that's 2.7 more than if this bill doesn't pass.

So the point is this will contribute to a scenario where we create that many jobs and millions of them are specifically attributable just to this plan. And this is really important because there are still people out there arguing with a straight face that this would somehow lead to there being fewer jobs. Instead, it's clearly the case it will create more jobs as a country to the tune of millions if we pass this.

And I would add one more thing that we saw in a different study that came from Georgetown, very interesting study pointing out that the majority of jobs that you create with a good infrastructure plan go to people who don't need college degrees.

[18:35:11]

It's so important where I come from and a lot of places around the country where we're worried about the future of manufacturing, we're worried about the future of blue collar jobs, that this is creating jobs both for people with and people without college degrees. That's how we build a strong economy for the future.

BLITZER: 2.7 million jobs, nothing to sneeze at all, but it's not 19 million jobs. 2.7 million jobs, very important. Secretary Buttigieg, thank you so much for joining us.

BUTTIGIEG: Thanks for having me on. I appreciate it.

BLITZER: I hope you'll be a frequent visitor here in THE SITUATION ROOM. I appreciate it very much.

Just ahead, the new COVID vaccinations in the United States just hit an all-time high. A new data reveals Americans are being vaccinated five times faster than the global average.

Also ahead, we'll have an update on last week's deadly attack at the U.S. Capitol. The former Homeland Security secretary, Jeh Johnson, he is standing by live. We will discuss.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:40:00]

BLITZER: The CDC is warning that COVID-19 infections are up for a fourth straight week here in the United States driven by new cases among young people, as well as the spread of variants. But there is considerable progress in the race to get Americans vaccinated.

Let's get some more from Dr. Ashish Jha, the dean of the Brown University School of Public Health. Dr. Jha, thank you so much for joining us.

Are the 3 million or so doses of coronavirus vaccine being given here in the United States each day enough, from your perspective, to fight off what some fear could be a fourth coronavirus surge?

DR. ASHISH JHA, DEAN, BROWN UNIVERSITY SCHOOL OF PUBLIC HEALTH: Yes, Wolf, thanks for having me on. I'm worried about that surge. The 3 million doses a day is very helpful. I think what is less helpful is how much people are relaxing restrictions and just kind of going about their day. I understand the desire to get back. If people can hold on for a few more weeks, I think we're going to be in a very good place.

BLITZER: The U.S., as you know, is currently vaccinating nearly five times faster than the global average. But as we see this fourth straight week of rises in new cases, are we getting too comfortable because of the success of the vaccine rollout?

JHA: Yes, I'm worried about that. I mean, obviously, on one hand, we're all thrilled about the vaccine rollout. It's going great. It's going to land us in a very good place by the time we get to May. But we're not there yet, and the variants make it particularly concerning. So we really do have to hunker down for a few more weeks. We're really, really close to that finish zone but we can't quite stop yet.

BLITZER: People still have to go out there and wear a mask. It is so critically important. Should the U.S. consider, Dr. Jha, delaying second doses of coronavirus vaccine simply to allow more people to get a shot more quickly? Dr. Fauci, as you know, he says that would put us in what he describes as a tenuous zone.

JHA: Yes, this is something that many of us have been calling for for a couple of months now. And I think it would have made an enormous difference certainly a couple of months ago when we had a much lower supply. At this point, I think it could still help on the margin. But at this point we have lots of vaccines coming.

I really do think by the end of May, Wolf, we're going to have more vaccines in arms for them to go into in terms of people willing to get it. So I don't know that that strategy has quite the same value as it did before. But delaying by a couple weeks would have little harm and could get us a few more people vaccinated more quickly.

BLITZER: Dr. Jha, as usual, thank you so much for your expertise. We're grateful to you.

Coming up, there are new concerns about security here in Washington at the U.S. Capitol in the wake of the car ramming attack that killed a capitol police officer. Up next, the former Homeland security secretary, Jeh Johnson, is standing by, we will discuss that and more.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:47:42]

BLITZER: Tonight, we're following new warnings from the Capitol Police Union as calls for increased security measures at the U.S. Capitol increase in the wake of the latest deadly attack.

CNN's Brian Todd is joining us from Capitol Hill right now.

What are you learning, Brian?

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, this area once again has been turned into a bit of a fortress. You see behind me new concrete barriers in addition to the high fencing and guarding of this area by National Guard troops, security personnel and others. It is clear that protecting this building, those who work here and those who guard us is now a challenge with few, if any, obvious solutions.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) TODD (voice-over): Tonight, concrete barricades placed by the high fencing around the Capitol, a new security measure in the wake of Friday's car ramming attack that left a U.S. Capitol police officer and the suspect dead. All of this intensifying the debate over how to protect the Capitol after two attacks in just over 12 weeks.

LT. GEN. RUSSEL HONORE (RET.), LED SECURITY REVIEW OF U.S. CAPITOL: It's going to always be a big target and we've got to be ready 24/7.

JONATHAN WACKROW, FORMER SECRET SERVICE AGENT: We're also not used to this new threat environment. We're not used to people mounting an insurrection on the Capitol. We're not used to people attacking that symbol of democracy. That's the new normal.

TODD: This as the chairman of the police officer's union says the department is staggering under the recent attacks, with three officers having died, many others injured. The department is understaffed, he says. Officers exhausted, many looking for other jobs.

CHARLES RAMSEY, FORMER WASHINGTON, DC POLICE CHIEF: Working, you know, large amounts of overtime is stressful in and of itself. That kind of adds to the stress that's already there.

TODD: Retired Lieutenant General Russell Honore who led a security review of the Capitol following the January 6th attack has recommended, among other measures, mobile fencing that can easily be set up and taken down, as well as long-term retractable fencing for some congressional buildings. One security expert disagrees with that option.

WACKROW: It's going to be too slow to react. It is going to require man power to deploy it and make sure it's implemented correctly. Manpower, quite frankly, they don't have and they don't have the luxury of anticipating exactly when those threats are going to present themselves.

TODD: But Jonathan Wackrow does agree with another key recommendation from General Honore.

[18:50:03]

HONORE: We do think that everyone going into the Capitol that worked there should have complete background checks and we need to improve the ability to process people with

TODD: But those measures still might not have been enough on Friday. "The Washington Post" cites the brother of suspect Noah Green as saying Green's life had unraveled. He moved several times in recent months, his brother told "The Post". He suffered hallucination and paranoia and finally texted his brother just before the attack to say he was going to live homeless. Experts say beefed up intelligence and manpower may still not have been enough to stop a suspect like Green.

WACKROW: It's like finding that needle in a haystack.

(END VIDEOTAPE) TODD: We have just in tonight, the Metropolitan Washington, D.C. Police have just released the photograph of the weapon that the suspect used, a large knife. This is courtesy of the Metropolitan Police Department.

In addition to some new details on the incident on Friday, Metropolitan Police saying that the suspect Noah Green struck Officer William Evans and another officer first with his vehicle and crashed into the security gate and then exited the car with this knife in his hand and lunged toward a third officer who fired his weapon and struck Green.

Just some new horrific detail, Wolf, on an attack that seemed to unfold in a matter of seconds.

BLITZER: Yeah, it's really a large knife. Thank you very much, Brian Todd for that.

Let's discuss with the former Homeland Security Secretary Jeh Johnson.

Ms. Secretary, thanks so much for joining us.

As you and I will know, U.S. capital has long been a symbol of our democracy but in recent weeks, the fact that it has become a target, it's increasingly clear. How do you think we should address the root of that problem?

JEH JOHNSON, FORMER HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: Wolf, going to an increased security environment around the Capitol grounds is inevitable. It has been inevitable for sometime. In my lifetime and yours, the eastern front of the capital was public parking. I remember as a young child touring the Capitol with my sister and my parents. You could drive up to the eastern front, you could park just feet away from the steps to the eastern front of the capitol.

And when I was in Washington, my years in Washington, when I go out for a Sunday walk, I'd go up Capitol Hill, I go on to the Capitol grounds, walk right past the building. That has all changed. The events of January 6th and the attack this past Friday are very, very different circumstances.

From all we know about Friday, he was extremely deranged. He probably even knew he was going to end his life when he went out there but as a result of January 6th, the Capitol building is now a heightened visibility when it comes to possible attacks.

So, inevitably, unavoidably and unfortunately, I think we have to think about some form of permanent events around the Capitol. Not retractable, not flexible, not temporary but some form of permanent fence like you have around the White House, like you have around the Pentagon and other secure buildings in the Washington area.

You know, for the longest time, you and I regarded the capital as the peoples building and accessible to the people, but unfortunately, I think we are in a new era where that simply has got to change. BLITZER: Yeah, so many tourists. Over these years as you and I know,

often came to Washington. Simply wanted to walk around Capitol Hill and see the U.S. capital. Clearly, that is not going to be happening right now.

You heard Brian Todd reports that the Capitol Police Officers Union now says the department is clearly struggling. They are already understaffed. They could see a potential mass exit of officers.

What will it take to address those specific kinds of issues?

JOHNSON: A lot of hard work. When I was secretary of homeland security, as you know, part of DHS is the Secret Service. And during my years there, we had to deal with attrition rates, we had to deal with agents and officers under high demands, a lot of stress.

And so, it's incumbent upon the leadership of the Capitol Police and the Congress to reverse that trend and give the Capitol police what they need. The U.S. Capitol should be one of the most secure buildings in Washington, D.C. and to make that happen, you simply got to augment and build up the Capitol Police force.

BLITZER: So, are you concerned as I am that the U.S. Capitol is simply now going to become a target for, you know, for crazy people out there?

JOHNSON: Well, I wouldn't put it that way, Wolf. I am concerned that the Capitol bolster its security around the perimeter in a dignified elegant way so it does not look like a fortress. It does not look like a prison. And get rid of the barbed wire which is temporary.

But there are ways to do this so that the security is subtle yet strong. That can be done and I think it needs to be done.

BLITZER: Good advice.

The former homeland security of secretary, Jeh Johnson, thanks so much for joining us. We're going to continue this conversation I'm sure down the road.

JOHNSON: Thank you.

BLITZER: And we'll have much more news right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Finally tonight, we share more stories of people who died from the coronavirus.

Fred Ochoa of Arizona was 79 years old. The U.S. Army veteran who worked as a mover and a sales person, he was married to his wife Marie for 52 years. He enjoyed fishing and camping with this children and grandchildren, and playing with his great grandchildren believing that family is everything.

Jeff Bailey of California was 68. He also was a salesman who promoted the infamous members-only jackets back in the 1980s. He was known as GPS Jeff for his ability to know locations around the country. And his children and grandchildren lovingly called him Papa B.

May they rest in peace and may their memories be a blessing.

Thanks very much for watching. I'm Wolf Blitzer in THE SITUATION ROOM.

"ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT" starts right now.