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Mass Shooting in Texas; Trouble for Congressman Matt Gaetz; Testimony Continues in Derek Chauvin Trial; Biden Defends Definition on Infrastructure in $2 Trillion Plan against GOP Attacks; Former GOP House Speaker Boehner Blasts Trump, Political Rivals in Bombshell New Book. Aired 6-7p ET
Aired April 08, 2021 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[18:00:00]
WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: We're also learning that at least one person is dead in a mass shooting in Texas. We're getting new information. Stand by for details.
And all this comes after President Biden unveiled new executive actions aimed at easing what he calls the epidemic and embarrassment of gun violence here in the United States.
This hour, we will hear more on guns in CNN's exclusive interview with the senator who has the power to make or break the Biden agenda, the Democratic Senator Joe Manchin.
Also, tonight, Republican Congressman Matt Gaetz may be in new legal peril, as he faces investigation for possible sex trafficking crimes. A key associate of Gaetz is now signaling he's likely to strike a plea deal.
First, let's go to Minneapolis right now.
Our senior national correspondent, Sara Sidner, is on the scene for us.
Sara, we heard very significant testimony today in the Chauvin trial.
SARA SIDNER, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes.
Today, we heard from a very important and very effective prosecution witness, a pulmonologist with impeccable credentials who made clear that, in his opinion, George Floyd died from the officer's actions, not from anything else.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DR. MARTIN TOBIN, PULMONOLOGIST: That's the moment the life goes out of his body. I do.
SIDNER (voice-over): Today, the prosecutor's expert medical witness did not hold back.
TOBIN: Floyd died from a low level of oxygen. And this caused damage to his brain that we see, and it also caused a PEA arrhythmia that caused his heart to stop.
SIDNER: The world-renowned expert on breathing and lungs, Dr. Martin Tobin, pointed to the officers' actions, saying George Floyd died because the officers created a scenario in which Floyd's lungs were put into a vise-like grip.
TOBIN: It was almost to the effect as if a surgeon had gone in and removed the lung, not quite, but along those lines.
SIDNER: Dr. Tobin said four things caused Floyd to stop breathing, including Floyd's position on the concrete, allowing no room for his lungs to expand.
JERRY BLACKWELL, MINNESOTA PROSECUTOR: You mentioned several reasons for Mr. Floyd's low oxygen. You mentioned, one, handcuffs and the street, right?
TOBIN: Correct.
BLACKWELL: You mentioned knee on the neck?
TOBIN: Yes.
BLACKWELL: Prone position?
TOBIN: Yes.
BLACKWELL: And then the knee on the back, arm and side. Were those the four?
TOBIN: Yes. These are the four.
SIDNER: The jury saw new pictures and graphics of Floyd and the officers to illustrate his point, giving the jury a lesson on how we breathe and how you can stop breathing, even if a healthy person went through the same thing as Floyd.
TOBIN: A healthy person subjected to what Mr. Floyd was subjected to would have died as a result of what he was subjected to.
SIDNER: The doctor also testified about whether drugs were the culprit that killed George Floyd, as former officer Derek Chauvin's attorney has suggested.
To that, Dr. Tobin said Floyd had not taken a proper breath for nine minutes and 50 seconds, when paramedics finally got a breathing tube in him, and, by that point, carbon dioxide in Floyd's body had reached lethal levels.
BLACKWELL: What's the punchline?
TOBIN: The significance of all that is, it's a second reason why you know fentanyl is not causing the depression of his respiration, solely explained by what you expect to happen in somebody who doesn't have any ventilation given to him for nine minutes and 50 seconds. SIDNER: On cross examination, Chauvin's attorney pushed Dr. Tobin on
two main issues, the potential effect of drugs on Floyd's body and his breathing and his heart disease.
ERIC NELSON, ATTORNEY FOR DEREK CHAUVIN: That's going to affect blood flow in a person, right? It's going to make the body work a little harder to get the blood through the body.
TOBIN: No, not really. It's not going to do that.
NELSON: How does that affect a person's respiratory?
TOBIN: You would expect that he would be complaining of chest pain and you would expect that he would be demonstrating a very rapid respiratory rate. We don't see either.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SIDNER: Now, we also heard from several other medical and technical folks, one of whom was Dr. Bill Smock.
And he is actually a surgeon for the Louisville Metropolitan Police Department. And he testified also about the possibility that drugs could have killed George Floyd. He completely negated that argument and said this about fentanyl, which often makes somebody sleepy.
He said, look, he was yelling, he was asking, he was begging for his breath. Usually, you don't see that with a fentanyl overdose -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Sara, stay with us. We're going to get back to you in a moment.
But, right now, I want to bring in an attorney for George Floyd's family, Antonio Romanucci.
Tony, thank you very much for joining us.
This veteran lung doctor, this expert witness, as you heard, testified that fentanyl wasn't a factor in slowing down George Floyd's breath. And he said -- I'm quoting now -- "A healthy person subjected to what Mr. Floyd was subjected to would have died under the same circumstances."
[18:05:14]
How far does that go in undercutting Chauvin's defense?
ANTONIO ROMANUCCI, ATTORNEY FOR FAMILY OF GEORGE FLOYD: I think it's a devastating blow, Wolf.
As devastating as this is for the defense, because this witness was credible, he explained it, he was very professorial, but he also spoke in simple terms, it was dreadful testimony for the family.
But when you look at the circumstances here, this is what we have been waiting for, right? This is what 92 pounds of pressure on someone's neck does when you're face-planting into the ground, where you can't catch a breath.
I heard testimony about air hunger. And look at how descriptive that word is, those two words by themselves are, hungry for air. When you're hungry for food, you can wait for days. You can't wait. You only have minutes before you lose consciousness if you don't get air. This was devastating testimony today.
BLITZER: This doctor, this expert witness, also described the moment the life went out of George Floyd's body. He pointed to the last flickering of his eyes.
How is the Floyd family dealing -- doing after that kind of really powerful, awful testimony?
ROMANUCCI: Well, I spoke to the family after today's testimony.
And, you know, besides that feeling of dread, they feel pain. They feel this loss even more. They're reliving the torture not only that George went through, but their own personal torture, because they're -- this is new evidence for them. This is new evidence for them.
Now, I can tell you, Wolf, that the civil team knew about this evidence months and months ago, because we put this -- a very similar team together too. But we don't give all the details to the family unless they need to know.
What we heard today was consistent with what we knew months ago. And now for the family to hear it, they're suffering through this pain over and over again.
BLITZER: Yes, my heart goes out to them.
So far, at least eight members, current and former members of the Minneapolis Police Department have testified against their former colleague the former police officer Derek Chauvin.
You and your colleague Ben Crump write in "The Washington Post" -- and I'm quoting now -- "that a dangerous code of silence is crumbling."
Explain what you mean by that?
ROMANUCCI: Well, Wolf, what we have seen in testimony with Chief Arradondo testimony, Lieutenant Zimmerman specifically, this is testimony that I have never personally seen as a trial lawyer in all the years that I have been handling these types of cases.
You have the top of the department coming out speaking against one of their own. Now, why is this so unusual? Because, typically, you only get these sorts of admissions maybe on cross-examination. Chief Arradondo came out and spoke directly to the public, to the attorneys about what Derek Chauvin did, that he acted law -- that he acted illegally and against policy, that he acted without humanity, without dignity.
He didn't give George the medical treatment that he wanted. So, what we're seeing -- what Ben and I are seeing here is that this is what we need. The leadership that Chief Arradondo showed is what we need in order to break this thin blue line, the code of silence, and have officers with courage to come out and speak up when they see misconduct, when they see bad deeds.
That's what we're asking for, transparency and accountability.
BLITZER: Tony Romanucci, thank you so much for joining us. Appreciate it very much.
ROMANUCCI: Thank you, Wolf.
BLITZER: Let's bring back CNN's Sara Sidner, along with CNN political commentator the attorney Bakari Sellers, and CNN legal analyst Paul Callan.
Bakari, as you heard, this lung doctor, this expert witness rejected the defense's argument that fentanyl was a factor in George Floyd's death, and he testified that even a healthy person would have died under Chauvin's knee for, what, nine-and-a-half minutes.
How significant was that testimony?
BAKARI SELLERS, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Wolf, it was very significant.
This pulmonologist came. He was very credentialed. He was very poised even under cross. He was easy to understand. Sometimes, experts can come in and confuse the jury or those watching. He was very clear and easy to understand.
But people don't need to assume that, after today's testimony, albeit very, very good and very, very compelling, that this case is over. You're going to have a battle of the experts, because there's going to be an expert from the defense side who comes out and says the complete and polar opposite that this expert said.
[18:10:08]
And the jurors are going to have to go in the back and weigh which expert they find to be the most credible or which testimony they see to be the most valuable.
But, today, you couldn't put a better expert on the stand if you're the prosecution. I mean, he was damn good.
BLITZER: Sara, did the defense struggle today in the cross-examination of this pulmonologist?
SIDNER: I hate to make that call, but you could definitely hear him stumbling over some of the things that the doctor said.
And then the doctor would refute what the defense attorney, Eric Nelson, would say to him. And then he had to go back and sort of rephrase the question, and it was a bit stumbly.
I do want to mention one thing that could have been extremely effective for this jury. And that is when Dr. Tobin told the jurors almost in a fatherly way or professorial way, to check their necks and to do some of these things, to show them where things are on your neck and to really explain how your body works.
And he really got into it. And we know from the reporters, the two reporters inside, who were the pool reporters giving us information about what's happening inside, they said that many of the jurors, all but three were all doing exactly what Dr. Tobin asked them to do.
And I think you're going to see -- when people can see things, when people can feel things, when people can understand and clearly trying to understand, his testimony could have been extremely, extremely damaging to any idea from the defense that this was about a drug overdose or about lung disease.
He was unequivocal, saying that George Floyd died because he could not breathe from a lack of oxygen because of how the officers had him detained on the ground for nine minutes and 29 seconds.
BLITZER: Bakari, the prosecution also called a toxicologist, who testified that the level of drugs in Floyd's system was relatively low.
How well is the prosecution getting ahead of the defense on this specific issue? Because the defense has suggested they're going to argue he didn't die from the knee on the neck, he died from a drug overdose?
SELLERS: They're putting a lot of points on the board, Wolf. There's no doubt about it.
I mean, this case has been -- I can't say the case has been flawless. But the case has been really, really good that the prosecution has put up, I mean, witness after witness, from watching the credible law enforcement officers that came in and kind of broke that blue wall, that code of silence, to now a pulmonologist and other experts saying that, no, it was the pressure on the back of the neck that caused this, and he didn't have that many drugs in his system.
But there's a flip side to that argument. Not that many drugs in his system means that he did have some. He did have some fentanyl. He did have some methamphetamine. And so the reason that I keep playing both sides of this is, I want people don't understand that this trial isn't over.
Like, this -- there is going to be a defense case that is going to make us all furious because of what we saw with our own eyes. We believe that we saw a murder take place. I believe that I saw a murder take place, but the defense is going to come out and try to tell us and try to tell those jurors in the room, don't believe what their eyes saw.
BLITZER: Yes.
And it's -- historically, it's pretty tough to convict a former police officer or current police officer. As we know, with these juries, you just need one juror to have a reasonable doubt, if you will. SELLERS: Right.
BLITZER: There could be a hung jury. Then they got to decide whether they're going to go back and start the whole thing over again.
Speaking of the jury, and you made this point, Sara, but the jurors, I take it, were really absorbed. They were watching all this testimony today very closely. This is in contrast to how they were behaving compared to some of the other witnesses.
SIDNER: Yes.
I mean, they have been paying attention. There is no doubt about it throughout this entire trial. And -- but, as the days go on, and as the testimony becomes more technical, sometimes more medical, with lots of medical terms and technical terms, we noticed that jurors were fidgeting a little bit more.
But now, with this particular witness, there was complete composure on the part of the jury. Everybody was paying full attention, and even, as I mentioned, going through the motions the doctor asked them to do.
And even, at one point, the judge stopped because there was an objection from the defense about what the doctor was asking the jury to do. And the judge had to tell the jury, look, you don't have to do this. This is not a command. He cannot make a command on you. You can do it if you want, but you don't have to do this.
But many of them, most of them were doing this and going through the motions. They were really paying attention. And they were taking notes.
But, to Bakari's point, those folks who are watching this trial and think that this was it, this was the testimony that's going to make the case, it very well could be. But we have to remember the defense has its whole case to bring to the jury.
[18:15:04]
And in all of these cases, almost every case, murder case where you have expert witnesses, you have ones that say things the exact way the prosecution wants them to be said, and you have ones that completely refute that and side with the defense.
And we fully expect that he will bring some of those witnesses to testify in front of this jury -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Bakari, one line we keep hearing from Chauvin's defense team is that, if someone can talk, they can breathe.
But that lung doctor, the expert witness, he's an expert in breathing, said that's dangerous and highly misleading. How critical was that point?
SELLERS: I mean, it flipped me in everything that I thought on its head as well. We -- you always learn that as you're growing up, that, if you -- if a
person can talk when you're in an emergency situation, then they can breathe. And this pulmonologist told us that that rhetoric that we taught -- that we were taught probably since childhood is not correct.
The flip side of that, though, is that maybe Derek Chauvin believed that, if you talked, you could breathe, so he had no idea, up until a certain point, the type of distress that George Floyd was going through.
Now, again, I don't necessarily buy that argument. But that's an argument that the defense would make. Today's testimony, though, Wolf, all in all, I mean, if you're going to have an expert testimony or an expert come and testify, as he was able to drag the jury in, as he was able to get them to do different things with their hands -- even those who probably weren't doing with those hands were engrossed or paying attention to what he was saying, even as complicated as it may have been -- today was a 10 out of 10 in terms of expert witnesses.
And so the criminal defense attorneys, they're going to have to match that quality of expert when they bring theirs next week or whenever that may be. And so today was a good day for the prosecution, as, again, they followed through with what they set out in opening arguments, each day laying that groundwork to show a few things, one, Chauvin acted outside of protocol.
Two, it was a knee and not drugs, that caused his death. And, three, he wasn't fearful of anything. There was nothing to be fearful for. And, four, I mean, he just lacked compassion. He had the malice in his heart and malice of forethought to kill a man.
And so you're seeing the prosecution lay that case out. And they're doing it extremely well, better than we have seen in a long time in these cases.
BLITZER: We will see what happens tomorrow and in the days to come.
Bakari, Sara, guys, thank you very, very much.
Meanwhile, we're following some significant breaking news out of Bryan, Texas, right now, where at least one person is dead. Multiple people have been taken to the hospital in critical condition.
I want to get an update from CNN's Stephanie Elam, who is monitoring all these late-breaking developments.
Another mass shooting, I take it, Stephanie, here in the United States.
STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Unfortunately, it does seem to be picking back up here as we're coming out of the pandemic, Wolf.
Let me give you the latest on what we know about the people who have been injured and hurt in this shooting. You mentioned that we have seen now that one person is dead at the shooting in Bryan, Texas. We also know that four people were taken to the hospital with gunshot wounds, that they are in critical condition. We also know that there's one other person who's not in critical condition who also has a gunshot wound.
There's one person who had an asthma attack as well, this as the police department, the law enforcement officers are trying to figure out exactly what happened here. They do believe that the suspect in the shooting is an employee of this business.
This business is called Kent Moore Cabinets. It was started in 1971 in this industrial park of Bryan. And to give an idea of better where this town is, it's near College Station, which is the home of Texas A&M university.
So, this is where we are, somewhere between Dallas and Houston looking at this area here. They also said that a trooper has been shot. This is according to the Grimes County sheriff. And they do believe that this is related to the shooting that we saw here in this industrial park.
So, they're still working through this. They did say that by the time that they got to this business location, the shooting had already wrapped up. So, they're interviewing the people that work there. We know that there's about some 600 employees of this business. They're talking to people there to get more information.
We are still working to get more information this, but, right now, we can tell you that at least seven people, plus the trooper, have been impacted by this shooting here, one of them with an asthma attack, but the others who have been shot. And one person has lost their life, Wolf.
BLITZER: Yes, another mass shooting here in the United States. We will stay on top of it, update our viewers as we get more information.
Stephanie, thank you very much.
Just ahead: What bombshells might be dropped by an associate of Republican Congressman Matt Gaetz, as we're learning about a likely plea deal?
And more of CNN's exclusive interview with the new Senate power broker, Senator Joe Manchin of West Virginia, after he threw a new wrench into President Biden's agenda.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:23:29]
BLITZER: Tonight, a potentially dangerous twist for Congressman Matt Gaetz, as the Republican faces a sex trafficking investigation and a widening scandal.
A key Gaetz associate now appears likely to strike a plea deal and cooperate with prosecutors.
CNN senior legal affairs correspondent Paula Reid is following the story for us. She's down in Orlando watching all of this unfold.
Paula, so, tell us more. What are you learning?
PAULA REID, CNN SENIOR LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, that key associate is Joel Greenberg.
And as part of a plea deal, he could be required to provide prosecutors with evidence against Congressman Gaetz in that ongoing sex trafficking investigation.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
REID (voice-over): Tonight, the investigation surrounding Florida Congressman Matt Gaetz enters a new phase, as a key associate signals he might strike a plea deal with the government.
JOEL GREENBERG, TAX COLLECTOR: It really is an honor to be here today.
REID: Joel Greenberg, a friend of Gaetz and the former tax collector in Seminole County, Florida, is likely to enter a deal in his own criminal case, raising the possibility he could cooperate with investigators as part of the deal.
FRITZ SCHELLER, ATTORNEY FOR JOEL GREENBERG: I'm sure Matt Gaetz is not feeling very comfortable today.
REID: Greenberg's attorney was in court today and said any potential for cooperation would be worked out in conjunction with a plea deal.
SCHELLER: If somebody signs a cooperation agreement, they're required to cooperate.
REID: Gaetz's friendship with Greenberg is key to the federal investigation surrounding him. The two have been friends for years, posting photos together. Gaetz even told a local radio station in 2017 that Greenberg would make a good member of Congress.
[18:25:04]
REP. MATT GAETZ (R-FL): Joel Greenberg has gone into the Seminole County Tax Collector's Office. He's taking it by storm. He's been a disrupter.
REID: Gaetz was Greenberg's first donor to his reelection campaign last year, giving $1,000, the maximum amount.
The plea deal is not finalized. But if the agreement goes through, it means one of Gaetz's close confidants would be cooperating with the government, putting further pressure on the congressman.
SCHELLER: Mr. Greenberg, if he accepts a plea or a plea agreement, one, it will show his sense of remorse, which he does have, his sense of acceptance of responsibility. Number two, I think he's -- he's uniquely situated.
REID: Greenberg has been awaiting trial in jail after violating the terms of his bail earlier this year.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're in violation of probation right now.
REID: He is charged with 33 criminal counts, including allegations of stalking and harassing a political opponent, wire fraud, and creating fake I.D.s, also included, one count of sex trafficking a child between the ages of 14 and 17.
While details in the court records for this charge are scant, investigators believe Greenberg recruited multiple women online for sex, and that he introduced the women, who received cash payments, to Gaetz, who had sex with them too, according to "The New York Times."
Gaetz has denied all allegations, writing on Monday: "I have never, ever paid for sex. And, second, I, as an adult man, have not slept with a 17-year-old."
GAETZ: Providing for flights and hotel rooms for people that you're dating who are of legal age is not a crime.
REID: But a source tells CNN investigators are examining whether any federal campaign money was involved in paying for travel and expenses for the women.
And now federal investigators are scrutinizing a trip Gaetz took to the Bahamas, and whether women were paid to travel for sex with the congressman and others, a potential federal crime, sources tell CNN.
As part of a broader probe, investigators want to know if Gaetz was accepting paid escorts and travel in exchange for political favors, according to people familiar with the investigation. Gaetz's lawyer declined to comment. But a spokeswoman for Gaetz denied the allegations to CBS News, calling them part of a "general fishing exercise about vacations and consequential relationships with adults."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
REID: Tomorrow, Gaetz is expected to speak at an event at former President Trump's Miami golf club.
Now, the event is sponsored by Women For America First, the same organization that secured the permit for the January 6 rally that ended with thousands of people storming the U.S. Capitol -- Wolf.
BLITZER: All right Paula, thank you very much, Paula Reid in Orlando. Excellent reporting.
Let's get some more on all of this.
CNN senior legal analyst former U.S. attorney Preet Bharara is with us, and CNN political analyst Maggie Haberman is with us. She's the Washington correspondent for "The New York Times."
Preet, you just heard Greenberg's attorneys say -- and I'm quoting now -- "I'm sure Matt Gaetz is not feeling very comfortable today."
I assume you agree with him?
PREET BHARARA, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: I do.
It's very interesting, because, from the reporting and what we saw in the judicial proceeding today, they don't have a deal yet. There's not a plea agreement that's been signed that's in the nature of a cooperation agreement. But it's a sign, given that taunt -- and it sounded like a taunt from the lawyer for Mr. Greenberg -- that he's sufficiently comfortable that there will be a deal and that prosecutors will agree that his client will provide substantial assistance that he's comfortable saying in front of cameras something about the discomfort of Matt Gaetz.
Usually, it's the case that prosecutors and the defense lawyers as well don't want to broadcast what's going on, because things can go wrong at the last minute. Things can fall apart in business deals, legal deals, any other kind of deal, for that matter.
And the fact that he feels comfortable doing it tells me that he's either gone rogue or, more likely, there's a very good, substantial understanding that there will be a cooperation agreement in place before too long.
BLITZER: And if there is a cooperation agreement, and Greenberg fully testifies, fully cooperates, presumably, he will get a reduced sentence as a result.
Maggie, Greenberg's attorney also said his client is -- quote -- "uniquely situated." We know Greenberg and Congressman Gaetz were close friends, political allies. How much pressure would his cooperation put on Congressman Gaetz?
MAGGIE HABERMAN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Look, I certainly think that it could make things, depending on what he knows -- and, to be clear, I don't know fully what Joel Greenberg is aware of.
But, based on what we know so far, it could be very uncomfortable for Matt Gaetz. Now, he has denied wrongdoing. He has said he didn't -- he -- that he didn't have sex with anybody who was underage, and he has said that repeatedly.
But if Greenberg offers information to the contrary, or if he details information that could implicate Gaetz in some way in a crime, that would be very worrisome for Gaetz.
[18:30:02]
Only Gaetz can know what exactly those two were doing together.
But what our reporting has shown is that they -- Greenberg met women on a website who were willing to have dates in exchange for gifts or some kind of money allocation and that both he and Matt Gaetz would have sex with them.
BLITZER: You know, Preet, we're also learning that federal officials are looking into the congressman's travels, including a trip to the Bahamas as they investigate whether women were actually paid to travel for sex with Gaetz and with others. What are the legal ramifications of those potential actions?
PREET BHARARA, CNN CHIEF LEGAL ANALYST: Very significant. That implicates federal law, it implicates potential sex trafficking, also implicates potential campaign finance violations depending on what funds he used.
And the thing to look for -- to think about is if and when we get a signed plea agreement that indicates cooperation. People should understand what that means. That means the federal prosecutors have made a determination that Joel Greenberg has been truthful with them. They made a determination Joel Greenberg has substantial information that makes it worthwhile for him to get a more lenient sentence at the end of the day.
And they made a determination that they can corroborate the things that Joel Greenberg is saying. It's not just going to be his say so. That's the way the cooperation agreement work. They don't waste their time on futile cooperators who they don't think can make the substantial case against the bigger fish, in this case Matt Gaetz. So all of these stories we keep hearing are trouble for Matt Gaetz.
BLITZER: You know, Maggie, Congressman Gaetz, as you know, he's been an outspoken Trump loyalist for years. But would you be at all be surprised to see if Trump were to turn his back on Gaetz as this investigation moves on?
HABERMAN: The president's first impulse, Wolf, I have been told former president by a couple of people who are familiar with his thinking on this, his initial impulse was to defend Gaetz and to say that, you know, he's one of ours and we need to back him. Most of his advisors have urged him to stay out of this.
He finally said something the other day in response to a story that my colleague and I did, about how he had approached White House officials about a blanket pardon at the end of the Trump term. That obviously didn't happened. We said we were not clear whether Gaetz and Trump talk about it directly but that Trump was aware of it.
Trump issued a statement saying Gaetz never talked to him. Remember, he did nothing wrong. I think that was his way of trying to show that he's supporting him. But so far he's been staying away from this and I anticipate that that will continue.
BLITZER: Base on all you're reporting, Maggie, and you're an amazing journalist, just how close have of Gaetz and Trump been over these past few years?
HABERMAN: They've been very close, Wolf. And it's really been because Gaetz has been a presence on television, he's from Florida, which appeals to Trump, and he's somebody who, you know, has been willing to defend Trump vocally no matter the circumstance.
At one point, Trump advisers sought to make an example out of Gaetz during the first impeachment trial. Gaetz took a vote that was oppositional to the White House position on specific issue. It did not have to do with impeachment. But Trump advisers really tried to cut him off. It only lasted so long because Trump wanted him around.
And so, I do think it's unusual for Trump to separate himself right now, but I think that his advisers think it's in his best interest.
BLITZER: Maggie Haberman and Preet Bharara, guys thank you very much. We're going to stay on top of this story for sure.
BHARARA: Thanks, Wolf.
BLITZER: Coming up, we'll have more of CNN's exclusive interview with Democratic Senator Joe Manchin on the gun debate, the fight over infrastructure and his unique power right now to impact President Biden's agenda.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:35:00]
BLITZER: We're following the breaking news, another mass shooting here in the United States. At least one person is dead, four people are critically injured after that shooting in Bryan, Texas.
I want to get an update on the situation from Lieutenant Jason James of the Bryan Police Department. He's joining us right now. So, Lieutenant, tell us what the latest is. I understand Governor Abbott of Texas says there's been an arrest. Has the suspect been apprehended?
LT. JASON JAMES, PUBLIC INFORMATION OFFICER, BRYAN POLICE DEPARTMENT (voice over): I believe he has been. It was not in our county and I'm getting reports that the suspect is in custody from this incident.
BLITZER: What, if anything, can you tell us about the suspect's possible motive?
JAMES (voice over): We don't know that yet. We're still interviewing people to find out what's his relationship to this business. Was he an employee, ex-employee, somebody he knew there? We don't know that connection and that's what we're investigating, is talking to all of the witnesses that were on scene, all of the employees to see if they saw anything, heard anything. So we're just going through the investigation to determine why this all happened.
BLITZER: I know that the last time we spoke he was on the loose, the suspect. He's now been apprehended, obviously. Do you know how?
JAMES (voice over): I do not, sir. I do not know how they ended up apprehending him. I just know that he is in custody.
BLITZER: We've heard from the Grimes County Sheriff that a trooper was actually shot. The shooting of this trooper, was that related to this incident?
JAMES (voice over): I cannot answer that one. I've been hearing the same reports over here in this county. But I don't know the circumstances of how the trooper was injured and if it's the same subject. I just can't confirm that right now.
BLITZER: And as far as this mass shooting is concerned, Lieutenant, is this the sole suspect that's been involved, at least as far as we know at this point?
JAMES (VOICE OVER): As far as we know at this point, this is the sole subject that went into this business.
[18:40:00]
BLITZER: And as you say, the suspect may have been an employee of the business there in Bryan, the business that was targeted. Do you have any sense at all of a possible motive?
JAMES (voice over): Yes, we don't know if he's an employee or an ex- employee. We don't know his relationship to the business. And so we're just trying to piece that part together of why this horrible incident happened.
BLITZER: Finally, Lieutenant, what can you tell us about the fatality and the condition, for that matter, of the other victims who have been transported to the hospitals?
JAMES (voice over): Yes. Four of them were transported to a local hospital here in Bryan, CHI St. Joseph's. They were critical. One was transported to College Station St. Joseph and it was a nonlife threatening injury. And one was sent to a local medical facility called CapRock, that had a medical issue. So it's unrelated to the shooting, but it was related, I guess, in content of this incident.
BLITZER: Sadly, another mass shooting here in the United States. Lieutenant Jason James, we'll stay in touch with you. Thanks very much for joining us. We'll stay on top of this story. I appreciate it very much.
JAMES (voice over): All right.
BLITZER: And just hours before this latest shooting here in the U.S., President Biden announced new executive actions aimed at easing gun violence.
I want to go to our Senior White House Correspondent, Phil Mattingly. Phil, the president has been under a lot of pressure to act as we're seeing a resurgence of shootings.
PHIL MATTINGLY, SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, no question about it, Wolf. The pressure has only ramped up in the wake of seemingly headline week after week after week of another mass shooting. The president today laying out first steps that he can take and also trying to push lawmakers to take action on Capitol Hill.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOE BIDEN, U.S. PRESIDENT: Enough, enough, enough. MATTINGLY (voice over): Tonight, President Joe Biden taking the first limited steps to curtail gun violence.
BIDEN: Gun violence in this country is an epidemic and it's an international embarrassment.
MATTINGLY: Coming on the heels of mass shootings in Georgia and Colorado that left 18 dead. And if tragically on cue, less than 24 hours after yet another shooting left five dead in South Carolina.
BIDEN: As I was coming to the Oval Office, I got the word that in South Carolina, a physician with his wife, two grandchildren and a person working at his house was gunned down, all five.
MATTINGLY: All bringing forth increasing pressure on the Biden administration from gun control groups to deliver on sweeping gun violence campaign promises. Even his legislative action appears far off.
BIDEN: We've got a long way to go. It seems like we always have a long way to go.
MATTINGLY: Biden issuing a direct and very pointed challenge to lawmakers.
BIDEN: They've offered plenty of thoughts and prayers, members of Congress, but they passed not a single new federal law to reduce gun violence. Enough prayers, time for some action.
MATTINGLY: As he laid out a series of executive actions, instructing the Justice Department to craft rules for restrictions on so-called ghost guns, guns that can be assembled piece by piece with no serial numbers, as well as pistol braces, which can steady and improve the aim of smaller arms.
Biden also redirecting funds to violence prevention programs, directing the Justice Department to draft model red flag laws in commissioning the first federal firearms trafficking report in more than two decades.
BIDEN: Vice President Harris and I believe he's the right person at this moment for this important agency.
MATTINGLY: The president also announcing his intent to nominate gun control advocate and former Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms Agent, David Chipman, to run the ATF, a position without a Senate confirmed director for more than six years, now in line to be run with someone with unapologetic gun control credentials. All as the White House is scrambling to manage the path forward for Biden's next major legislative item.
JEN PSAKI, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: We're going to leave it to leaders in Congress to determine the mechanisms for moving things forward, but we think there should be every opportunity to do this on a bipartisan basis. MATTINGLY: With Republicans oppose to Biden's sweeping $2.25 trillion jobs package, all eyes now on West Virginia Senator Joe Manchin, took to the pages on The Washington Post to reiterate opposition to ending the filibuster and his concern about moving legislation through the arcane budget procedure that allows bills to pass in the Senate with a simple majority, a potential pathway for Biden's proposal. Instead of fixating on eliminating the filibuster or shortcutting the legislative process through budget reconciliation, it is time we do our jobs, Manchin wrote.
White House officials for now taking Manchin's position in stride and making clear they're only in the nascent stages of what they plan to be extensive outreach.
KATE BEDINGFIELD, WHITE HOUSE COMMUNICATION DIRECTOR: President Biden wants to have an open dialogue. He wants to hear concerns. He wants to hear ideas. And he knows this process is going to be a little bit longer.
MATTINGLY: And as Biden himself has made clear, his plan is but the first step.
BIDEN: Debate is welcome, compromise is inevitable, changes are certain.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
[18:45:01]
MATTINGLY (on camera): And, Wolf, the president made clear he expects to take more executive actions related to guns. He's instructed the Justice Department to come up with concrete actions he can take, but the reality White House officials acknowledge is that for tangible steps related to gun violence, they need legislation and right now there's no clear path forward in the U.S. Senate to 60 votes to pass any type of gun violence legislation.
Still, behind the scenes, I'm told talks are ongoing on a bipartisan basis related to background checks. Where those talks will end up, though, still an open question, Wolf.
BLITZER: Phil Mattingly, reporting for us, thank you very much.
Now to CNN's exclusive interview with Senator Joe Manchin, as he's proving to be one of the most powerful people in Washington right now.
Our congressional correspondent Lauren Fox went to West Virginia to sit down with Manchin.
Laura, you covered an array of topics with this very, very critically important senator.
LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, that's right, Wolf.
I mean, look, he is the 50th senator in the U.S. Senate Democratic caucus and he is key to passing any legislation that the president needs passed, whether that's guns, whether that's voting rights, whether it is that massive infrastructure bill that the president just rolled out last week. So we talked to him about a range of issues, trying to get answers on whether or not he was going to stand in the way of some of those key items.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOE MANCHIN (D-WV): January 6th changed me, and I was very clear with everybody. I never thought in my life, I never read in history books to where our form of government had been attacked at our seat of government, which is Washington, D.C., our Capitol, by our own people.
Now, the British did it, but not Americans. So, something told me, wait a minute, pause, hit the pause button, something's wrong. You can't have this many people split to where they want to go to war with each other.
FOX: Did the Biden White House talk with you before rolling out their infrastructure plan and do you have other concerns other just than the corporate tax rate?
MANCHIN: I mean, they've been very, very kind in talking. We do talk. We have communication.
FOX: How often?
MANCHIN: As often as I would like, as often as they would like. I'm always, you know, with the president, whenever --
FOX: The president directly?
MANCHIN: Whenever he calls me, he calls and we have a good conversation. We've had a good friendship, relationship for a long time. We understand each other.
I'm so pleased to understand that we have a person sitting in the White House that understands legislating, understands how Congress works and should work, and understands that basically, we've got to represent the people who we represent. And I'm representing West Virginia to the best of my ability and I'm trying to speak for my state.
FOX: I know that the vice president had done some interviews in your state of West Virginia trying to put some pressure on you for the COVID relief bill.
MANCHIN: I'm not sure -- I'm not really sure of that. And here's -- things were moving very fast. They're just coming into it.
Kamala and I have been friends, OK? We sit together and had a great relationship as far as in intel, and we still do.
And the vice president and president is and always will be invited, not matter who they may be to the state of West Virginia, and I'll be there to meet him. Just things happened real quick and I didn't know. We just didn't know. And it's nobody's fault. FOX: Some of your colleagues joked that you're the president of the
Senate now. I heard them in the hallways remarked that to you. Do you like this role? How does it feel?
MANCHIN: No, let me tell you about, and I've said this before and I say it again. I've watched people that had power and abused it. I've watched people that sought power and destroyed themselves. And I've watched people who had a moment of time to make a difference and changed things and used it. I would like to be that third.
FOX: I know that Schumer has made the effort to say once you guys get back, you're going bring up a background check bill. Have there been any changes to Murphy's background check bill? Do you think that you can back it?
MANCHIN: Chris Murphy is great to work with. He's a good person and a good friend. And Chris Murphy is more than willing to sit down and work in a compromising passion to make something passed. It is long, long time for us to finally have background checks, especially commercial transactions.
We don't know. I've been taught a long time ago as a little person, a little kid back in Farmington that you don't sell your guns to strangers. You don't loan your guns to strangers. You don't know anything, to protect them, we protected that and learn the safety precautions we take.
Now, all of a sudden, they throw caution to the wind. Well, if you go to a gun show and there's a person selling guns at a gun show, does not have to have background checks because the law allows them to be there. That shouldn't happen. Internet sales -- what the president did, I supported President Donald Trump when he did bump stocks, OK? He did that with executive order. I supported that.
I supported the president today from what I heard, OK, what he's doing in the executive order.
Now, there's an awful lots of things he talked about, but the executive order says those guns should not be allowed to be legally made or sold, or used. It's illegal, because they're making them off of printers and can't detect them.
FOX: But you still can't support the House-passed background check bill?
MANCHIN: Not to where the House bill, but, you know, that's negotiations.
FOX: Have there been any negotiations over the --
(CROSSTALK)
[18:50:01]
MANCHIN: We haven't gotten the bill yet. We haven't gotten the bill. No, we haven't. FOX: OK.
MANCHIN: I'm happy to work with them and sit down. And I think it's just what we call gun sense. And if you come from a gun culture such as I do in West Virginia, and I don't think there's a person -- I don't know a person who haven't a gun, OK? It's different, different background.
I'm anxious to work with them and try to do something in a most constructive way.
FOX: The president also nominated a new director for the ATF today. And David Chipman is someone who has worked with advocates to try to end gun violence around the country.
(CROSSTALK)
MANCHIN: I understand he's a very good person. I don't know him.
FOX: Would you back him?
MANCHIN: Everything I know, he's well-qualified, and I have no reason why I would not. But I don't know enough yet. He's just been nominated today. We'll look into that and go through the process.
But I've always been very differential about the president putting his team together.
FOX: This has, of course, always been a nominee that has been controversial and has sometimes gotten stuck in the U.S. Senate. But it doesn't sound like you would try to block him at this point.
MANCHIN: No, he's qualified. He worked at the ATF for 20-something years, I understand. So he knows it inside and out.
FOX: Would you be willing to pass the For the People's Act by killing the filibuster? Would you be willing to carve out an exception on that bill?
(CROSSTALK)
MANCHIN: I'm not killing the filibust -- I'm not killing the filibuster.
FOX: Never, ever?
MANCHIN: I've been very, very clear. I think if you read my op-ed, it was very clear.
I think we can find a pathway forward, I really do. I'm going to be sitting down with both sides in understanding where everybody is coming from. We should have an open, fair, and secure election.
If we have to put guard rails on, we can put guardrails on, so people can't take advantage of people. And I believe there are Republicans that feel exactly like I feel. FOX: Some progressives think that you're standing in the way of
significant changes the president can make on voting rights, because you don't want to get rid of the filibuster. Other changes that they could make on gun reforms, it has your problems (ph) --
(CROSSTALK)
MANCHIN: They can do all these change it is they work towards the middle. You can't work in the fringes. You just cannot work in the fringes.
We want fair, open, secured elections. And what Georgia has done some things which I thought were just atrocious, OK? But I've always been a secretary of state and I've been a governor, and I know the 10th Amendment. I know my rights as far as states rights.
And I don't think there should be an overreaching, if you will, federal elections.
FOX: What changes --
MANCHIN: I think the guard -- the -- you know, well, I'll tell you, the one they did which is unbelievable to me, they took away the powers of the election in the secretary of state's office and put it in the hands of the Congress, I mean, in their legislature. Now you have no one person that you can hold accountable for. You have a whole legislature, 100 people or more. That's crazy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOX: And, of course, Wolf, he said when he gets back to Washington, he's going to sit down and have a conversation with Senator Raphael Warnock, of course, he's the senator from the state of Georgia who has been trying to argue to the leadership that what they need to do is make a special carve out for the filibuster so that they can pass that voting reform bill through the U.S. Senate.
I think it's very significant that Manchin saying not only he's going to have conversations with Republicans on infrastructure, but he recognizes he needs to have some of those conversations with people within his own party, because a lot of people on the outside, a lot of progressives, view him as someone who is standing in the way of what President Biden could do -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Very important interview. Terrific work, Lauren. Thank you very much. Thanks for heading over there to West Virginia.
Just ahead, we'll have more from former House John Boehner's new bombshell book, his stinging comments about Donald Trump and many of his fellow Republicans.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:47:06]
BLITZER: Tonight, former Republican House Speaker John Boehner is unleashing on former President Trump and members of his own party in a new bombshell tell-all book.
CNN's Brian Todd is digging into this for us.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): There was a time when John Boehner trade lightly when it came to Donald Trump.
REP. JOHN BOEHNER (R), FORMER HOUSE SPEAKER: The president is probably the most unique person we've had as president. But the fact is, he's president.
TODD: Consider that chapter closed. In the former House speaker's new book, "On the House," Boehner rips into the former president, accusing Trump of inciting the January 6 attack on the Capitol, quote, perpetuated by the bullshit he'd been shoveling since he lost a fair election.
And he skewers Trump for being petty and bullying.
Boehner writes of a time he went golfing with Trump, before Trump ran for president. An aide to Boehner, he writes, mistakenly introduced their two golf partners by the wrong names. At the end of the round, when Trump found out he'd been calling the two men by the wrong names the entire time, Boehner writes, Trump got into Boehner's aide's face, quote, Trump shouted, what are you, some kind of idiot? You want to remember somebody's name? You F-ing listen.
DAVID SWERDLICK, ASSISTANT EDITOR, THE WASHINGTON POST: That example of the golf outing really shows the contrast between the two men, in terms of at least temperament. President Trump was mercurial, undisciplined, immature, self-centered.
TODD: A Trump spokesman responded to Boehner's accounts by calling Boehner a, quote, swamp creature, and suggested Boehner's criticism was motivated by his business ties to China.
Boehner writes that he once told then-Senate Democratic Leader Harry Reid to go F himself at a White House meeting. He recalls an incident where fellow Republican Congressman Don Young got so angry with Boehner over Boehner's criticism of earmarks that Young held a ten- inch knife to Boehner's throat just off the House floor. Young told "Politico" Boehner's account is mostly true.
In the book excerpts, John Boehner shows a particular detestation of Texas Republican Senator Ted Cruz, who Boehner had already spoken derisively about for years.
BOEHNER: Lucifer in the flesh. I got along with almost everybody. But I've never worked with a more miserable son of a bitch in my life.
TODD: In the book, discussing the rise of the Tea Party while he was speaker, and younger Republicans who were less interested in cutting deals with Democrats, Boehner writes, there's nothing more dangerous than a reckless A-hole who thinks he's smarter than everyone else. Ladies and gentlemen, meet Senator Ted Cruz. SWERDLICK: What he detested about Senator Cruz was this dramatic,
histrionic style that wasn't about legislating but about scoring points in the media, and eventually that is what led Boehner to move away.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TODD (on camera): We reached out to Senator Ted Cruz's office for a response to Boehner's book, they referred us to a tweet implying that Boehner is obsessed with Cruz. Cruz did joke about Boehner's criticism of him at a conservative conference in February, asking an audience, who's John Boehner? Wolf?
BLITZER: All right. Brian, thanks very much.
And to our viewers, thanks very much for watching. I'm Wolf Blitzer in THE SITUATION ROOM. You can always follow me on Twitter and Instagram @WolfBlitzer. Tweet the show @CNNSitRoom.
"ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT" starts right now.
