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The Situation Room
Police Chief Calls Daunte Wright Shooting Accidental; George Floyd's Brother Takes The Stand; School Shooting In Knoxville, Tennessee; Army Officer Sues Two Virginia Police Officers; Interview With Dr. Anthony Fauci; Biden Ramps Up Infrastructure Push, Holds Bipartisan Talks With Lawmakers Who Could Help Shape $2 Trillion Plan; Iran Vows Revenge On Israel After Mysterious Nuclear Site Blackout. Aired 5-6p ET
Aired April 12, 2021 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[17:00:00]
JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: The restaurant struggled but Valdovinos chipped in to help the community. He made burritos for the homeless. Valdovinos' died of coronavirus just weeks before Enrique lost his fight in late January. He was only 45 years old. Our thoughts and prayers are with his family and friends. May his memory be a blessing. Our coverage on CNN continues right now.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Welcome to our viewers here in the United States and around the world. I'm Wolf Blitzer in THE SITUATION ROOM. States of emergency have now been declared in the twin cities of Minneapolis and St. Paul. And overnight curfews have been order as a new fatal police shooting is inflaming tensions amid the trial of the former police officer Derek Chauvin in the death of George Floyd.
Take a look at this. These are live pictures of Minneapolis suburb of Brooklyn Center where police are now saying the shooting of a 20-year- old African-American man, Daunte Wright, by a senior police officer appears to be accidental where the officer mistakenly drawing her gun instead of her taser.
The shooting comes as the trial of Derek Chauvin saw a very emotional testimony today by George Floyd's brother who described him as a big momma's boy who taught his family how to treat their mother with respect. Jurors also heard a cardiologist testify that Floyd died due to restraint, not from a heart attack or from drug overdose and that his death was "absolutely preventable."
Let's start our coverage this hour with CNN's Adrienne Broaddus in Brooklyn Center, Minnesota where more of the shooting of Daunte Wright. We're getting more information right now. Adrienne, what are you learning because we want to warn our viewers that some of the footage they are about to see is very graphic. Give us the latest.
ADRIENNE BROADDUS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (on camera): Wolf, the footage is graphic and when some of the protesters behind me saw it they were moved to tears. We've seen emotion crescendo today. And behind me you'll notice there are protesters here as well as members with the Minnesota state police and the moments out here have been very tense following this video.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BROADDUS (voice-over): Tonight, new and shocking footage showing the police shooting of 20-year-old Daunte Wright in a Minneapolis suburb. Around 2:00 p.m. local time Sunday, police pulled over Wright. The police chief says they stopped him because he had an expired registration on his license plate.
The release footage begins minutes into the stop and shows police walking up to the car and then Wright is seen stepping out of his vehicle. Police then try to take Wright into custody after discovering he has an outstanding warrant. The video shows Wright begins to resist as cuffs are placed on him and he gets back into the vehicle.
UNKNOWN: (Inaudible) Taser, taser, taser.
UNKNOWN: (Inaudible)
UNKNOWN: Oh, shit. I just shot him.
TIM GANNON, POLICE CHIEF, BROOKLYN CENTER, MINNESOTA: As I watched the video and listened to the officer's commands, it's my belief that the officer had the intention to deploy their taser but instead shot Mr. Wright with a single bullet. This appears to me from what I viewed and the officer's reaction in distress immediately after, that this was an accidental discharge that resulted in the tragic death of Mr. Wright. The officer is currently on administrative leave.
BROADDUS (voice-over): Wright drove several blocks before hitting another vehicle, according to police. Police and medical personnel attempted life-saving measures following the crash, but Wright died at the scene.
UNKNOWN: I know (ph) the police officer come to the window.
BROADDUS (voice-over): Wright's mother, Katie, told CNN affiliate Care-TV she was on the phone with her son before the shooting. It's unclear to CNN how Katie Wright knew police had hung up the phone.
Protests erupted in a suburb outside Minneapolis in the aftermath of the shooting. Hundreds taking to the street Sunday night clashing with police. The National Guard was also on the scene. The situation turned violent. Crowds marching towards the police department swarmed police cars and started destroying them. Police moved in to disperse the crowds.
The chief of police also said bricks and frozen soda cans were thrown at officers injuring one who was taken to the hospital.
UNKNOWN: Let's go!
BROADDUS (voice-over): And while one group stayed at the police department, a second group of protesters went to a strip mall where businesses were broken into and looted.
MIKE ELLIOT, MAYOR OF BROOKLYN CENTER, MINNSESOTA: We recognize that this couldn't have happened at a worst time.
BROADDUS (voice-over): The city of Brooklyn Center is only about 10 miles from where former police officer Derek Chauvin is on trial for the killing of George Floyd. The chief of police says he released the footage to be transparent and became emotional when I asked what was on his heart.
[17:04:52]
GANNON: I'm the leader of this department. They expect me to lead, create a safe city. That's what I'm trying to do. So that's -- that's it. Okay. And, yes, I'm emotional.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROADDUS (on camera): Meanwhile, the chief says he released the video so quickly because he wanted to be transparent and let the community know what happened. Meanwhile, activists in this community are calling on the firing of that officer who deployed her gun and not her taser, and they are also calling for the chief of police to resign. And tonight, here in front of the Brooklyn Police Department the chorus and the soundtrack that's on repeat is the name of Daunte Wright. Wolf.
BLITZER: Adrienne Broaddus on the scene for us. We'll get back to you. Thank you very much. Let's get some more now on the very emotional testimony in the trial of the former police officer charged with murder and the death of George Floyd. CNN's Omar Jimenez is in Minneapolis for us once again. Omar, tonight jurors are weighing very tearful testimony by Floyd's brother.
OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (on camera): They are. Philonise Floyd, George Floyd's brother, likely among the final witnesses the prosecution will call as the near resting their case. The defense will be able to call witnesses next.
But we've heard from over 30 witnesses called by the prosecution who have collectively established what exactly happened on May 25, 2020. That the use of force Derek Chauvin employed was excessive, that George Floyd did not die from a medical -- his medical history or a drug overdose. And then finally today, we got reminded that there's a family at the center of it all.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ERIC NELSON, DEREK CHAUVIN'S LAWYER: The state calls Philonise Floyd.
JIMENEZ (voice-over): For the first time the family of George Floyd took the stand against the man accused of murdering one of their own amid a trial that's remained personal throughout.
PHILONISE FLOYD, BROTHER OF GEORGE FLOYD: This is my mother. She's no longer with us right now, but that's my oldest brother George. I miss both of them.
JIMENEZ (voice-over): A different type of expert testimony, an expert on who George Floyd was.
FLOYD: He showed us like how to treat our mom and how to respect our mom. He just -- he loved her so dearly.
JIMENEZ (voice-over): The same mother he cried out for in some of his final moments. But it wasn't just emotion Monday. Excessive use of force returned as a subject of testimony.
SETH STOUGHTON, USE-OF-FORCE EXPERT: Both the knee across Mr. Floyd's neck and the prone restraint were unreasonable, excessive, and contrary to generally accepted police practices.
JIMENEZ (voice-over): Medicine also remaining a familiar theme, this time in the form of a cardiologist.
JERRY BLACKWELL, PROSECUTOR: Do you have an opinion as to whether George Floyd would have lived if not for Mr. Chauvin's subdual and restraint of him for nine minutes and 29 seconds on the ground?
JONATHAN RICH, CARDIOLOGIST: Yes, I believe he would have lived.
JIMENEZ (voice-over): His testimony falls in line with doctor --
LINDSEY THOMAS, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: There's no evidence to suggest he would have died that night except for the interactions with law enforcement.
JIMENEZ (voice-over): -- after doctor.
MARTIN TOBIN, PULMONOLOGUST: A healthy person subjected to what Mr. Floyd was subjected to would have died as a result of what he was subjected to.
JIMENEZ (voice-over): -- who has taken the stand in the trial.
RICH: I believe Mr. Floyd's death was absolutely preventable.
JIMENEZ (voice-over): He rejected two pillars of the defense's argument that the drugs fentanyl and methamphetamine could be the cause of death or maybe a heart problem.
BLACKWELL: Did you find any evidence that Mr. Floyd had any negative heart conditions?
RICH: There was absolutely no evidence to suggest that at all.
JIMENEZ (voice-over): Turning the tables on Chauvin's defense attorney when he suggested it was the actions of George Floyd that led to his death.
NELSON: If Mr. Floyd had simply gotten in the back seat of the squad car, do you think that he would have survived?
RICH: Had he not been restrained in the way in which he was, I think he would have survived that day.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
JIMENEZ (on camera): Now, to begin the day, the judge denied a request by the defense to sequester the jury spurred on by the people that took to the streets in that separate Daunte Wright case last night. And basically, the defense argued that that emotion plus the emotion involved in this case would put the jurors in a situation where they would vote not guilty just because they are nervous about the repercussions of not doing so.
As I mentioned before, the defense will have a chance to present witnesses next. They will likely argue what they did in opening statements, that George Floyd's cause of death was not the knee to the neck. That Derek Chauvin did exactly what he was trained to do and that Derek Chauvin couldn't do his job effectively because of how hostile the crowd was getting. Those are the defense's arguments. Closing arguments moving forward as you look ahead will begin on Monday. Wolf.
[17:10:00]
BLITZER: Omar. I want you to stick around. I want to continue this conversation. I want to bring in wrongful death attorney Natalie Jackson, former Missouri State Highway Patrol Captain Ron Johnson and CNN legal analyst Elliot Williams.
Elliot, the prosecution called George Floyd's brother today but they also called witnesses today who reiterated what jurors have already heard multiple times. What do you think the strategy behind this is?
ELLIOT WILLIAMS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, look at the three witnesses that got called today, Wolf, and it almost sets up a perfect arc for what they are trying to do in this case. They called a cause of death witness because the defense is clearly going to call into question how George Floyd died.
They called in a use-of-force expert to talk about and debunk the defense's notion that Chauvin's actions would have been reasonable, right. And then what's called a spark of life witness under Minnesota law. Someone to humanize George Floyd.
At the end of the day, this is going to come down to a legal question of, one, how did he die, two, were the actions reasonable? But more importantly, that adding on top of that, this was a human being who was dehumanized and sort of gets a little bit dehumanized in the course of the trial and there's very valuable testimony to hearing from a family member talking about those things.
So, I wouldn't as some are doing, I think in talking about this, poo- poo, the calling of two more witnesses. What they did was wrap this all up, and I think they will be done with their testimony quite soon.
BLITZER: You know, Natalie, George Floyd's brother, Philonise, say he gave what's called a spark of life testimony today telling jurors his big brother was a momma's boy who loved sports. Were you surprised the prosecutors didn't save that very emotional powerful testimony and use them as their final witness? NATALIE JACKSON, WRONGFUL DEATH ATTORNEY: I was not nearly surprised
because I think that they wanted to use a use-of-force witness so that they show the jury that this is not about just -- that this is not about emotions in this case. But I think Philonise Floyd did a great job.
I've had the opportunity to meet him with Ben Grump and I will tell you, his family and he are just really salt of the earth people. And what he was today on the stand is who he is in real life.
BLITZER: You know, Omar, these personal details connect to some of the earlier testimony we heard from other witnesses especially from Floyd's girlfriend, don't they?
JACSKON: They do.
BLITZER: Yes. Go ahead. I wanted Omar to come into this conversation as well. Omar, what do you think?
JIMENEZ: Yes, Wolf. I mean, really what you look for in this are reports from inside the courtroom about the jurors and how they are reacting to this because at the end of the day, as closely as you and I and all of us are watching this, it really comes down to those in the room and how this is going to affect what they perceive in this case.
And when we saw especially when testimony was much more emotional in the beginning portions of establishing what happened on May 25, 2020 from those that were standing literal feet from George Floyd, these jurors were sitting on the edge of their seats empathizing with the people taking the stand.
And you saw a little bit more of that today when Philonise Floyd took the stand as we were speaking about this humanizes this case as a reminder of amid all this expert testimony, a lot of times using this big legal jargon and big police jargon, now you are reminded of someone at the center of this.
And that at the end of the day is something that at least prosecutors hope jurors are going to be able to empathize with as we get closer to the point where they'll be deliberating over a verdict.
BLITZER: Natalie, you wanted to make a point. Go ahead.
JACKSON: No, I just wanted to say that, you know, Philonise Floyd and his family, a lot of the stories that he said on the stand, he's also told us in real life. So these were stories that meant a lot to him that he really wanted the jury to hear.
BLITZER: Yes, he certainly did. You know, Captain Johnson, we've also now seen that body of camera video from this fatal police shooting just a few miles from where Chauvin is being tried. The police chief says this was accidental. How does an officer confuse a gun with a taser?
RON JOHNSON, FORMER CAPTAIN, MISSOURI STATE HIGHWAY PATROL: I just don't see how that happens. You know, a few years ago there was an incident similar to that and then they began to put the taser on the opposite side, reverse holster type. And so it's hard to see how that could happen with all the training that we've had over the years.
That video was hard to watch. You know, I think we just have to -- police officers have to know that their aggression has to be the same and we've seen this in our country when it comes to people of color, that the aggression seem to be higher and the adrenaline, it's just out of the box and we've got to address that and get to know each other, humanize each other with what we saw today in the George Floyd trial with his brother.
BLITZER: Yes. It's so heartbreaking when you see that video. Elliot, the 20-year-old, Daunte Wright, he was pulled over. The police say it was for an expired registration. Wright's mother says it was because he had an air freshener on his rear view mirror.
[17:15:03]
It seems he was totally unarmed. What stands out to you from you how quickly this has all escalated because there's a lot of tension in that area right now?
WILLIAMS: Well, what stands out to me is how exhausting it is that these minor offenses continually or consistently becoming death sentences for individuals and typically unarmed black men. You know, it brings us back to Eric Garner, it brings us back to George Floyd and here we are again just a few miles away where the dangling of air fresheners, you know, the capital offense thereof ends with someone dead.
And while certainly if this ever comes to criminal charges or whatever, it will be was it reasonable or an accident or so on. Take away the legal question and just think about the humanity of black people and as they are caught in these encounters with law enforcement. That to me is what stands out. We're here again. We will be here again and I think we'll here again after that, But it's exhausting, Wolf, to be perfectly candid.
BLITZER: Certainly is. You know, the police chief, Captain Johnson, said the officer was a very senior police officer. What questions do you have about this officer's training?
JOHNSON: Yes, I would look back and see when the last time they had training on the use of tasers and also with -- in reference to how they own their holster and what kind of training they had, you know. One this I will say that I would caution starting out saying that this was an accident.
It would just would say let's go into our investigation because the cynicism and the public belief, if you immediately say that, what are you saying to us. So, you know, let's go ahead and do our investigation and make sure that it's fair to both sides, but, yes, training is going to be extremely important in this matter --
BLITZER: All right, everybody -- JOHNSON: -- but it is exhausting.
BLITZER: -- everybody, thanks very much. There are some breaking news coming into THE SITUATION ROOM right now. I want to get an update, a school shooting. Yet another school shooting this time in Knoxville, Tennessee. CNN's Nick Valencia is working the story for us. You're learning now details, Nick. What are you learning?
NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Wolf. As you put it, yet another school shooting in the United States. This time in the Knoxville area of Tennessee. And preliminary reports that are coming into CNN indicate that this shooting happened around 3:50 eastern and multiple people have been shot including a Knoxville Police Department officer who has been since been transported to the hospital.
Here's what we know. Police say that there's no early information right now on the other victims. I mentioned that is multiple victims. We don't know any information about the shooter either at this point. But less than an hour ago the Knox County superintendent tweeted a statement saying that the school building is secure and that it is safe for parents to return to the high school to start reuniting with their children there. Parents and guardians are encouraged to go to the high school right now.
Video from the scene shows what appears to be a very crowded scene with emergency responder vehicles, first responder vehicles. It appears to be very active, but as I mentioned, that superintendent tweeting that the building is secure. We are standing by for an afternoon press conference from Tennessee Governor Bill Lee to get more updated information, but preliminary information coming into CNN, Wolf, indicating that multiple people have been shot at the Austin East Magnet High School in Knoxville, Tennessee. Wolf?
BLITZER: Yet another school shooting here in the United States. Nick Valencia, thanks very much. We'll stay in close touch with you.
Coming up, there are new developments in the case of an active duty U.S. Army officer, a man of color who was pepper sprayed by police during a traffic stop. He's now suing. We're going to talk about that with the head of the NAACP.
Plus, the United States now sets a one-day record for COVID vaccinations, but the coronavirus cases are still climbing. Dr. Anthony Fauci is standing by live. We will discuss all the late- breaking pandemic news. That's coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[17:20:00]
BLITZER (on camera): In Virginia, two police officers have now been accused in a lawsuit of using excessive force during a December traffic stop in Virginia. The officers pulled over an active duty U.S. Army officer, Second Lieutenant Caron Nazario who is black and Latino.
Body camera video shows officers pointing guns at Nazario, pepper spraying him and pushing him to the ground after pulling him over for what they believe was a missing license plate. Here's just part of this interaction, and we have to warn all of our viewers the video is very disturbing. And it may be difficult to watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CARON NAZARIO, ARMY OFFICER: I'm serving this country, and this is how I'm treated?
UNKNOWN: Yo, well, guess what? I'm a veteran, too. I know how to obey. Get out of the car.
NAZARIO: What's going on?
UNKNOWN: Get out of car now.
NAZARIO: What's going on?
UNKNOWN: What's going on is you're fixing to ride the lightning, son.
NAZARIO: I'm sorry, what?
UNKNOWN: Get out of car now.
NAZARIO: What's going on?
UNKNOWN: Get out of the car now! Get out of the car!
UNKNOWN: Sir, just get out of the car. Work with us and we'll talk to you. Get out of the car.
UNKNOWN: You received an order. Obey it.
NAZARIO: I'm -- I'm -- I'm honestly afraid to get out. Can I ask you what's going on?
UNKNOWN: Yes, you should be. Get out.
NAZARIO: What's going on? What did I do?
UNKNOWN: Get out of the car.
UNKNOWN: Get out now.
NAZARIO: I have not committed any crimes.
UNKNOWN: You're being stopped for a traffic violation. You're not cooperating. At this point right now, you're under arrest.
NAZARIO: For a traffic --
UNKNOWN: You're being detained, okay. You're being detained for obstruction of justice.
NAZARIO: For a traffic violation, I do not have to get out the vehicle. You haven't even told me why I'm being stopped. UNKNOWN: Really?
NAZARIO: Get your hands off --
UNKNOWN: Get out of the car now. Get out of the car.
NAZARIO: Get your hands off me, please. Get your hands off me. Get your hands off me.
UNKNOWN: You know what.
NAZARIO: Get your hands off me. Get your hands off me.
UNKNOWN: Not a problem.
NAZARIO: Get your hands off me.
UNKNOWN: Back up --
NAZARIO: I didn't do anything. Don't do that.
UNKNOWN: Sir.
UNKNOWN: Get out of the car.
NAZARIO: Don't do that.
UNKNOWN: Get out of the car now.
UNKNOWN: Sir, look.
NAZARIO: Don't do -- I'm trying to talk to you --
UNKNOWN: Get out.
UNKNOWN: Okay.
NAZARIO: I'm trying to talk to you.
UNKNOWN: I'm going to talk to you.
UNKNOWN: Get out.
UNKNOWN: Just get out of the car. Get out.
NAZARIO: Relax. Can you please relax? Can you please relax?
UNKNOWN: Get out. Get out. Get out of the car right now. Now.
NAZARIO: This is not how you treat a vet -- I'm actively serving this country and this is how you're going to treat me. I didn't do anything. Whoa, hold on. What's going -- hold on -- I'm -- watch it.
UNKNOWN: Get out of the car. Get out of the car now.
[17:25:03] NAZARIO: That's (BLEEP) up. That's (BLEEP) up.
UNKNOWN: Sir, just get out of the car.
NAZARIO: I'm trying to breathe.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER (on camera): Police reports from the officers say Nazario was pepper sprayed because he failed to comply with their orders to get out of the car and struck one of the officers when he tried to unlock the door.
Nazario's lawsuit says those statements are false and the video footage contradicts them. Meanwhile, CNN has learned that one of the two officers, Joe Gutierrez, was fired after an internal investigation. CNN has been unable to reach him or the other officer or their representatives.
Let's discuss all of this and more with the president and CEO of the NAACP, Derrick Johnson. Derrick, thanks for joining us. We see Lieutenant Nazario in his U.S. Army uniform. He tells the officers he's serving our country. How persuasive is this feeling that no matter what you do, no matter who you are, police may reduce you to your skin color?
DERRICK JOHNSON, PRESIDENT, NAACP: You know, he was justified in being in fear and not getting out of the car. He was being pulled over for what they allege was a traffic violation. An officer's badge should not be a shield to accountability.
These officers must be held accountable. There is no justifiable reason for them to pepper spray him. There was no justifiable reason for them to order him out of the car. Had they simply asked the question are your tags up to date? He could have explained and been allowed to go on the way. These officers must be held accountable. That's why we need police reform now
BLITZER: Let's talk about what's going on in Minnesota. Minneapolis, clearly, grappling with another deadly police encounter amid the murder trial of Derek Chauvin. Has anything changed, do you believe, in the nearly one year since George Floyd's death?
D. JOHNSON: Unfortunately, there are far too many people who are on edge doing a police stop. Individuals are on edge because they don't know what's going to happen with the police officers. For some reason police officers are on edge.
We need to de-escalate how we interact with law enforcement officers and agencies. Particularly those officers in jurisdictions that have had a history of harassing and causing harm. At some point, well, police officers must be put in a posture where they can protect and serve our communities. And communities must be placed in a posture where they are not in fear of their lives because of a traffic stop.
BLITZER: I want to put a statement, Derrick, that you made up on the screen and I'm going to quote you now. "Whether it be carelessness or negligence or a blatant modern day lynching, the result is the same. Another black man has died at the hands of police." What goes through your mind, Derrick, hearing the police chief call this accidental?
D. JOHNSON: You know, as I watched, I felt bad for that police chief because in fact we do have good officers. We do have good agencies and, unfortunately, the outcome oftentimes override the good nature of individuals or the well-intendedness of an individual.
You have a young man who is now dead, a mother grieving, a child without a father. That's a problem. We need to reform our police agencies. The training needs to be updated. We need to pass the George Floyd Act so that we can ensure that qualified immunity is no longer a shield to accountability. We need a database of police misconduct.
All of these things are necessary so we can thrive as communities with individuals who are sworn to protect and serve actually doing that and not causing harm by mistake or intent.
BLITZER: Separately today, a very different separate incident that occurred, Derrick, three Georgia police officers were injured in a chase with a suspect opening fire. This is still a very dangerous job for our police. How do you try to make headway on what you're suggesting needs to be done in police reforms?
D. JOHNSON: One, qualified immunity should not be a shield to accountability. Two, we do have law officers who are bad actors. We need to establish a database so they cannot move from agency to agency. We need to reform how we provide training making sure that communities have the resources for communities that live in stress so that we have social workers or communities that need more mental health professionals, we have those individuals on standby and law enforcement officers are not called to handle scenarios where they have not been trained nor is fair for them to be engaged in.
We have to have more training around de-escalation. We are not anti- police.
[17:29:59]
We are anti-killing black people who have not caused any harm.
BLITZER: Derrick Johnson, thanks so much for joining us.
D. JOHNSON: Thank you.
BLITZER: Up next, the U.S. now averaging more than 70,000 new coronavirus cases each day even as millions of Americans are getting vaccinated each day. We're going to talk about that and more with Dr. Anthony Fauci. There you see him, he's standing by live. We have lots to discuss we will when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: With the record number of Americans now being vaccinated against COVID-19, half of all U.S. adults are now expected to have received at least one dose by the end of this week. Let's talk about that in more with Dr. Anthony Fauci, the director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases and the chief medical adviser to President Biden. Dr. Fauci, thanks so much for joining us.
[17:35:14]
As you know, the success of the vaccine rollout has given us lots to celebrate. But this pandemic is by no means over, at least not yet. Where are we Dr. Fauci as a country right now, in our fight against this virus? We're both baseball fans, for example, what inning are we in?
DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASE: You know, it's not like baseball, Wolf, because the inning that we're in is going to depend on how we respond. And that's the issue because I mean, if I say we're in the seventh inning, it's almost over and we have surges like we're seeing throughout Europe and the rest of the world and the threat of a surge that we're seeing now, you know, it's not measured in innings anymore, it's measured on what we do to contain this.
I mean, I think you said it quite correctly. The rollout of the vaccine is really impressive. We had over -- we had, I think, 4.6 million doses one day this weekend that were put into people's arms, which is really good news, as well as the fact that you have, you know, over 70 plus million people who have fully vaccinated and well over 120 of so or more, who are at least one dose. That's the really good news.
The sobering news about all of this, Wolf, is that you and I have spoken so many times about that peak we had and then we came down to a baseline that was not really very low was around 30,000. And I told you multiple times that that is disturbing, because that is a threat that will inch up and inch up.
And then we might wind up being in trouble again. Well, you know, we had as high as 80,000 cases in a day over the weekend inching up for 30, 40, 50, 60 and though, weekly averages in the higher part of 60,000, that's not good. And what we've got to do is we've got to do the two things, one, continue to push with the vaccine rollout, which is really, as you mentioned, quite successful, but also don't declare victory prematurely.
We see so many pulling back on some of the public health measures, the mask mandates, the restaurant opening, the bars, we can't be doing that. We've got to wait a bit longer, until we get enough vaccine into people that we will clearly blunt any surge. And every day that goes by, Wolf, we're closer and closer to that, because if we can vaccinate 3 to 4 million people every day, and keep the lid on things, pretty soon we're going to see a turnaround and we're going to see them come down because we have some formidable things out there.
We have these variants, which clearly are spreading in a more efficient manner than the original virus. That's the big challenge there. And that's the reason why we say vaccinate, but don't just decide that we are victorious, because we're not victorious yet. BLITZER: And stay safe and continue to wear a mask even if you're fully vaccinated, I think it's really important. And let's talk about what are called these breakthrough COVID-19 infections, that's when someone tests positive after they've been fully vaccinated. It happens because as you pointed out, no vaccine is 100 percent effective. How concerned should people be about this right now?
FAUCI: I don't think they should be overly concerned. We're going to keep an eye out on those breakthroughs to make sure that quantitatively the amount of breakthroughs is not any more than what we originally saw as the effective or the efficacy of the vaccine. For example, we have very good data from the trials that the vaccines are highly efficacious.
But as you said, and as I've emphasized multiple times, Wolf, no vaccine in history is 100 percent effective. So even if you get 90, 95, 90 percent, 75 percent effective, that means that what you're going to see is there going to be breakthroughs. And the more infections there are, the more breakthroughs you're going to see.
Yet the percentage still remains within that framework of a highly efficacious vaccine. And so although we never take lightly breakthroughs, we always investigate, you want to make sure that when you sequence the virus, it's not something new that we didn't suspect before. But quantitatively, it's the denominator that counts. So you may hear that there were, for example, 100 breakthrough infections in a certain region or a certain state.
[17:40:02]
You got to look and find out how many actual infections among the non- vaccinated people there were. When you get that correct denominator, you could say, well, you know, nobody likes to see breakthroughs. But this is entirely within the framework of a still highly effective vaccine.
BLITZER: The FDA says it is aware of reports of blood clots in people who receive the Johnson & Johnson single dose coronavirus vaccine. Is that vaccine causing this rare blood, and I want to stress, very rare blood clots?
FAUCI: Well, that's what's being looked into. I mean, that's something that we saw with the A.Z., the AstraZeneca, particularly in Europe, where we were seeing that the European medicine agencies was looking at that. They originally said it was not any more than in the general population.
And then they said, wait a minute, it looks like in fact, it might be associated. But it's so rare, that the risk of getting COVID-19 without a vaccine is clearly so much greater than the risk of this very rare adverse event. The one associated with J&J is being very intensively investigated now to see if there is a connection. And that's actually what's going on now with our FDA.
BLITZER: Well, let's hope for the best on that. Our viewers, obviously, Dr. Fauci, have grown to trust you and your advice. So I want to turn to some questions about your personal decisions now that you're fully vaccinated. When we spoke last year, you told me you were comfortable picking up food from restaurants, taking the food home to eat. Have you eaten outdoors, at least outdoors at a restaurant recently?
FAUCI: You know, Wolf, I have not been -- I'm not a good case study, because the nature of my crazy obligations and jobs, that I don't have a chance to do that. I mean, we just go get pick it up boom and eat on the run. I would I mean, on an outdoor restaurant right now where we are, I would not hesitate to do that. But the fact is, I just haven't done it.
BLITZER: What about indoor dining? Should I feel sad, fully vaccinated, obviously, should I feel safe having dinner at an indoor restaurant?
FAUCI: You know, Wolf, I think what you need to do is you need to look at the level of infection in the community. And again, being vaccinated, the risk for you is very low. It isn't like before, when you were not vaccinated, and you had a lot of activity in the community, and you went into an indoor restaurant where there was not restriction on the number of people in a restaurant, your risk would be up there.
Whereas now, the risk is not zero, but it's extremely low. And what it's going to be, Wolf, is that people are going to have to make a determination of what level of risk are they willing to take, and the one thing that we really do need to discuss and people need to understand that, that there are not absolutes here. If someone is not particularly risk averse, gets vaccinated and says, you know, I really do want to go to a restaurant and sit down and relax.
And I know the risk is very low, but I'm willing to take that chance. If someone who is very risk averse, they'll say no, no, I want to wade into the level of infection is way, way, way, way down in the community. Whereas others, it might be a little bit different. But the point that can't be lost in the discussion is that being vaccinated, fully vaccinated, you diminish dramatically the risk and then it depends on your own personal decision.
What the CDC will do and they are a science based organization that works on the data. They'll look at the data, if the data tells them to make something in their recommendation. If not, they'll try and do modeling. If not, they'll try and just do you know the good common sense type of expert opinion.
You might recall just recently, a couple of weeks ago, they said you know right now, if you're vaccinated, and you want to visit someone who is also vaccinated, I have someone in the family setting, even if you have kids or others who are not vaccinated so long as they're not at risk in the sense of having an underlying medical condition, A, you don't need to wear masks, B, you can have physical contact and not worried about.
What will likely happen as we go further and further into more people getting vaccinated is that you'll be hearing guidelines about places of worship, you heard the ones about travel, the CDC came out with the guidelines about travel. We'll hear about going to places like restaurants and places work. So gradually you're going to be seeing more and more of the definitive delineation of what a guideline is.
[17:45:07]
But in the middle of that, when you're trying to decide what you want to do, it's really a question of the kind of risk you want to take always knowing that being vaccinated makes you a very low risk.
BLITZER: You and I, as -- and we've known each other for many years, and we're friends, we share a love of our Washington Nationals baseball team. Have you or will you attend a game now that they're allowing, you know, several thousand people to attend games, there's some games coming up Thursday and Friday, for example, of this week home games Washington National Nets Park, is it is it OK for us to go watch a baseball game?
FAUCI: You know, the Nationals have had now restrictions on the numbers of people that go in. I would not hesitate to go to an outdoor baseball game. I will wear a mask because I'm out there in the community. My risk would be extremely low, particularly if I wear a mask. I'm someone that is a bit risk averse. But I would not hesitate to sit in an open stands and watch the Nets play at all. I would not hesitate to do that.
BLITZER: All right. That's encouraging to hear because we love our Nets. Dr. Fauci, stay safe out there. We're all counting on you. And we're grateful for everything you do. Thanks so much for joining us.
FAUCI: Thank you, Wolf, thank you for having me as always.
BLITZER: All right. Thank you.
Coming up, Iran now vowing to take revenge on Israel after a mysterious blackout at a keen nuclear site, we're going to take a closer look at the impact on nuclear talks with the U.S. We'll be right back.
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BLITZER: President Biden wrapping up his push for his $2 trillion infrastructure plan in a bipartisan meeting with lawmakers. Let's go to our senior White House correspondent Phil Mattingly. He's joining us with the latest. What can you tell us about the meeting today?
PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, I think the best way to probably frame this meeting based on people I've talked to is a bit of a testing of the waters from both sides on the President's and obviously he's put his $2.25 trillion proposal on the table. The Republicans have been very clear they are opposed to it.
So the President who said in a statement just a short while ago, it was a good exchange of ideas over the course of an hour and 40 minutes between these eight lawmakers, four Republicans, and four Democrats. Wants to see what Republicans will put on the table. He made clear in his statement that they are waiting, they will be doing follow up with Republicans, they expect Republicans to put proposals on the table and White House staff will be in touch.
For Republicans, it is just as much a question of whether or not the President is serious about bipartisanship. And Republicans that were in the meetings that the President was highly engaged that the President went back and forth about what's in his proposal for the course of the meeting.
But there's a lot of skepticism I'm hearing on Capitol Hill from both Republican lawmakers and their top aides as to whether or not the White House really wants this to be a bipartisan proposal or whether they will go with Democrats only in the House and try and do something similar in the Senate.
Like right now, the reality is this. This is going to be a month long process a very, very detailed legislative back and forth. And it's at the earliest stages. But both sides are trying to get a sense of where the other is, what is an opening for the other?
One thing to keep in mind, Republicans were in the meeting made very clear, the pay force for this bill, the President, really working on the corporate side of the tax code, increasing the corporate rate in one proposal from 21 to 28 percent. That is still considered a non- starter for Republicans.
The White House says if you have other options, if you have other ideas, put them on the table. That's what they're waiting for. That's what Republicans are considering. But right now, Wolf, still at the early stages, expect more of these meetings at the White House in the weeks ahead as the legislative process really starts to kick into gear.
BLITZER: All right, Phil, thank you very much, Phil Mattingly over at the White House.
We're also following very important developments in Iran right now where a mysterious blackout at a nuclear facility is threatening to undermine diplomatic talks with the United States. Iran is placing the blame on Israel. Iran is vowing revenge. Let's go to our senior international correspondent Fred Pleitgen. He's been working on this story for us. What are you learning about what's going on over there because there's a lot of mystery?
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: There's a lot of mystery and there certainly is a lot of at stake as well, Wolf. One of the things that seems to be becoming more clear is that there was some damage apparently done to that Natanz nuclear facility.
One of the things that we heard tonight from Iran's Foreign Minister Javad Zarif, is he said there was already repairs going on there. And at some of these centrifuges that were in there will be replaced by even more powerful centrifuges, he says. And so therefore, it certainly seems very much as though there was some damage done to the Natanz nuclear facility, the Iranians also saying that a backup power system is now up and running and that all the damage there has so far been contained.
Nevertheless, you're absolutely right, Wolf, the Iranians absolutely lashing out at the Israelis. I want to read you a quote from Javad Zarif, the foreign minister of Iran, he says quote, Zionists want to take revenge on the Iranian nation for their, meaning Iran, success in the course of lifting sanctions. But we will not allow the Zionists and we will take revenge from the Zionists for the action.
Now, Javad Zarif, not saying what exactly that revenge could look like but of course, the Israelis are very much on alert pretty much all the time. Today, of course, U.S. Secretary of Defense, Lloyd Austin, he was in Israel, he met with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, the Israelis not officially saying whether or not they were behind it, but Netanyahu certainly saying that he said his main priority is preventing Iran from getting a nuclear weapon, so therefore some very important developments there.
And one of the things that we are seeing is that the Iranians still are saying, Wolf, that they are giving those negotiations, those indirect negotiations about the Iran nuclear deal that are going on right now in Vienna. Seems to, as though they are still giving those negotiations a chance Iran Foreign Minister, Javad Zarif, tonight writing a letter to the U.N. Secretary General there he did say that if the U.S. came back to the nuclear deal that Iran would also come back into compliance so not taking that off the table.
However, an important caveat, Wolf, also in that letter. He's also saying that the Iran scaled back compliance with the deal. So some of the provisions that they're not sticking by anymore that's going to get accelerated in the wake of the incident at that Natanz facility, Wolf.
[17:55:12]
BLITZER: All right, Fred thanks very much. Lots of stake right now, Fred Pleitgen reporting.
Coming up, states of emergency declared after the fatal police shooting of a young African American man, which officials are now saying was an accident.
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BLITZER: Welcome to our viewers here in the United States and around. I'm Wolf Blitzer in THE SITUATION ROOM.
[18:00:02]
We're following a state of emergency after another black man was fatally confronted by police.
