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The Situation Room

Interview With Former U.S. Secretary Of Homeland Security Jeh Johnson; Derek Chauvin Trial Continues; Deadly Minneapolis Police Shooting; Sources Say Trump Declined To Meet With Embattled Rep. Matt Gaetz (R-FL), Both Sides Deny That As Gaetz Faces Sex Trafficking Probe; Ukraine: Russia Has Additional 50,000 Troops Near Border; Ukraine's President Tours Front Line With CNN Amid Russia Tensions. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired April 12, 2021 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[18:00:01]

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: We're following a state of emergency after another black man was fatally confronted by police, authorities preparing to enforce a curfew that begins soon in the Minneapolis area.

The community already on edge, as Derek Chauvin stands trial for the death of George Floyd. The shooting death of 20-year-old Daunte Wright is adding to the tension and to the outrage. Police say it appears Wright was accidentally shot during a traffic stop yesterday.

They say an officer mistakenly drew a gun instead of a Taser, this as the prosecution is winding down its murder case against Derek Chauvin. Among the final witnesses, George Floyd's brother, who broke down in tears, driving home their family's loss and their heartbreak.

Let's go to CNN's Brian Todd. He is covering the new and fatal police shooting of a black man in Minnesota.

Brian, that curfew begins in a couple of hours. What's the latest?

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, an investigation is under way tonight, and the streets of Brooklyn Center, Minnesota are very tense in the wake of this shooting.

We have new information on how it unfolded, including new police body camera video. We do have to warn viewers this piece contains some video which some may find disturbing.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'll Tase you!

TODD (voice-over): On police body camera video, an officer in Brooklyn Center, Minnesota, warns 20-year-old Daunte Wright not to try to escape.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'll Tase you! I'll Tase you!

Taser! Taser! Taser!

Oh, shit! I just shot him.

TODD: After Wright scrambled back into his vehicle, the officer fired into the car. Then, police say, Wright drove off, drove several blocks, then struck another vehicle. Daunte Wright died at the scene on Sunday afternoon.

The police chief said he was not aware of any weapons in Wright's possession. And today, the chief, said it appears the officer had fired her gun by mistake.

TIM GANNON, BROOKLYN CENTER, MINNESOTA, POLICE CHIEF: hit is my belief that the officer had the intention to deploy their Taser, but instead shot Mr. Wright with a single bullet. This appears to me, from what I viewed and the officer's reaction and distress immediately after, that this was an accidental discharge that resulted in the tragic death of Mr. Wright.

TODD: The chief said police officers in Brooklyn Center are trained to have their handguns on their dominant side, their Tasers on their weak side, and said the officer mistakenly drew the wrong weapon, even though the chief said she is a very senior officer.

CHERYL DORSEY, RETIRED LAPD POLICE SERGEANT: You don't get to make a mistake as a police officer and draw the wrong weapon. She had to reach across her body in an awkward way to get her Taser, so reaching down and pulling out her weapon, which was a very different move, and saying, I did -- I made a mistake, is unacceptable.

TODD: Retired LAPD Sergeant Cheryl Dorsey says, when a person is fleeing a scene in a vehicle, even Tasing them is the wrong move.

DORSEY: Any time you have a suspect attempting to flee, you have two choices. You can get ready to get some exercise and go chase them on foot, or you enter your vehicle, as did this young man, and you engage in a vehicle pursuit.

TODD: Police say they pulled Daunte Wright over because of an expired registration, then determined he had an outstanding warrant, which Wright's brother says Wright not aware of.

Wright's mother says he was pulled over because he had air fresheners hanging from his rear-view mirror and told CNN affiliates he called her as he was being pulled over.

KATIE WRIGHT, MOTHER OF DAUNTE WRIGHT: Like a minute later, I called and his girlfriend answered, which was the passenger in the car, and said that he had been shot.

TODD: The killing set off protests, confrontations with police and looting in Brooklyn Center. Law enforcement analysts incredulous that this incident occurred in the same metropolitan area where George Floyd was killed by police, even as the trial of the officer charged in Floyd's death is going on, a sentiment echoed by Brooklyn Center's mayor. MIKE ELLIOTT, MAYOR OF BROOKLYN CENTER, MINNESOTA: We are in pain

right now. And we recognize this couldn't have happened at a worse time.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TODD: Mayor Mike Elliott says he fully supports the firing of that police officer.

But when the police chief, Tim Gannon, was pressed on that, Gannon said -- quote -- "I think we can look at the video and ascertain whether or not she will be returning."

At the moment, that officer is on administrative leave -- Wolf.

BLITZER: All right, Brian, thank you -- Brian Todd reporting.

Now to the murder trial of the former police officer Derek Chauvin.

Our senior national correspondent, Sara Sidner, is on the scene for us in Minneapolis.

Sara, court just wrapped up for the day, the prosecution getting close to resting its case after very emotional testimony today by George Floyd's brother.

SARA SIDNER, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely.

We heard from Philonise Floyd, who was extremely emotional talking about his big brother and what he meant to the family. We also heard from experts as well.

But, as you said, the prosecution is getting very, very close to ending its case.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PHILONISE FLOYD, BROTHER OF GEORGE FLOYD: He was a big mama's boy.

SIDNER (voice-over): George police brother, Philonise Floyd, took the stand to tell the jurors who his brother was before his death sparked worldwide protests.

P. FLOYD: He just was like a person that everybody loved around the community. He just knew how to make people feel better.

[18:05:11]

SIDNER: Floyd's family testimony is one of the last the jurors heard in the prosecution's case.

JERRY BLACKWELL, MINNESOTA PROSECUTOR: The state will call Dr. Jonathan Rich.

The prosecution started the day calling another medical expert. Dr. Jonathan Rich, an expert in cardiology, determined Floyd died because of the officer's actions.

BLACKWELL: Do you have an opinion as to whether George Floyd would have lived if not for Mr. Chauvin's subdual and restraint of him for nine minutes and 29 seconds on the ground?

DR. JONATHAN RICH, CARDIOLOGIST: Yes, I believe he would have lived.

SIDNER: Again, Chauvin's attorney tried to get the doctor to admit there were other possibilities for Floyd's death, such as drugs or heart disease, and one more thing, Floyd's own actions.

ERIC NELSON, ATTORNEY FOR DEREK CHAUVIN: If Mr. Floyd had simply gotten in the backseat of a squad car, do you think that he would have survived?

RICH: Had he not been restrained in the way in which he was, I think he would have survived that day.

SIDNER: The prosecution is expected to rest soon. Then it will be the defense's turn to try and unravel the prosecution's case with their own witnesses.

GEORGE FLOYD, DIED IN POLICE CUSTODY: I can't breathe.

SIDNER: The prosecution again played the video of Floyd being detained for the jury, as they questioned another use of force expert.

SETH STOUGHTON, POLICE USE OF FORCE EXPERT: Looking at the threat analysis here, it's clear from the number of officers and Mr. Floyd's position, the fact that he's handcuffed and has been searched, he doesn't present a threat of harm.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SIDNER: And I just had a conversation with Philonise Floyd. And if there was any doubt the stress it is putting on this family, especially those as close as they were, like Philonise, to his brother, there is none now.

We saw him break down on the stand. He also told me that he hasn't been able to sleep during this whole trial, and that the stress is just almost too much to take. But they are standing strong, because they want, as they say in their own words, justice for their brother George Floyd -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Yes, it's so heartbreaking for that family.

Sara, stick around. We will get back to you in just a few moments.

But, right now, I want to get reaction to all of this from one of the lead lawyers for George Floyd's family, Justin Miller.

Justin, thanks for joining us.

I know this has been a difficult day, another difficult day. George Floyd's brother Philonise, as you know, he testified today,

sharing very personal stories about George Floyd with the jurors. How meaningful is it for the Floyd family that Philonise was able to testify?

JUSTIN MILLER, ATTORNEY FOR FAMILY OF GEORGE FLOYD: Wolf, that might be the most impactful testimony thus far, in my opinion.

What we have heard so far is a lot of technical stuff, excluding the first week, when there was a lot of stuff from those witnesses who were on the same. But that was very emotional, very impactful. And it showed George Floyd as a person and not just a hashtag or somebody who we keep talking about things happening to, instead of somebody who we keep -- who we talk about as a person and a real, real human being, like all of us.

BLITZER: The judge, Peter Cahill, says the defense will start its case tomorrow. They will start calling their witnesses.

What is the Floyd family bracing for from those arguments?

MILLER: Yes, like we have talked about in the past, character assassination will be on display. And we have seen that in countless cases time and time again.

When the evidence is not on your side, they go straight to character. And we have seen them try to set this up from the beginning of this trial, and even before, that George Floyd was a bad person, that he was on drugs, that he did this and he did that, to just hide the ball and keep everyone from seeing what's really important, and that is that he was killed, and it wasn't his fault, and that Derek Chauvin is a murderer.

BLITZER: This comes as Minneapolis, that entire area, as you know, Justin, is grappling right now with the police shooting of 20-year-old Daunte Wright just about, what, 10 miles or so from the courthouse.

What does it say to you that yet another black man from this community has lost his life in a fatal police encounter as this trial unfolds?

MILLER: Well, Wolf, when I was watching that happen, all I could think about was trauma.

When you're an American, and especially a black American, you don't get to deal with one trauma before you get another one. And this is just another open wound, another trauma for America to deal with, and, like I said, especially black Americans.

We haven't had this trial finished. We haven't seen the verdict. We are still going through it. We haven't even got to the defense's arguments, which will be very, very hurtful and very hard to watch.

So, to have another incident during this is just traumatic, but it's kind of par for the course for America, unfortunately.

BLITZER: As you know, there were some peaceful protests last night for Daunte Wright, but there was also some non-very peaceful looting that was going on. You saw the video.

What's the Floyd family's message to the community at this sensitive moment?

MILLER: Well, I think the family is like everybody else, just in shock that this happened.

[18:10:02]

I mean, looting is never right. It is always wrong. But when you have this emotional trauma, and you have people dealing with this, different people deal with trauma in different ways.

So, I am less concerned about the looting and more concerned about the police officer who killed that young man and more concerned about Derek Chauvin, who kneeled on George Floyd for nine minutes and 29 seconds.

The looting, the things that are stolen, these stores have insurance, and that can be bought again. But these young people's lives cannot be brought back.

BLITZER: Justin Miller, thank you so much for joining us.

MILLER: Thank you for having me.

Let's bring back our senior national correspondent, Sara Sidner. She's on the ground for us in Minneapolis, along with CNN political commentator the attorney Bakari Sellers, and CNN legal analyst Paul Callan.

Bakari, jurors heard this very emotional testimony from George Floyd's brother Philonise. Were you surprised the prosecution didn't use him as their last witness?

BAKARI SELLERS, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: I'm not -- well, actually, I'm kind of surprised.

And I was speaking to our good friend Laura Coates, because this is extremely rare. I want people who are watching to understand how rare it is to have a witness who is a family member play the role of a -- quote, unquote -- "character witness," for lack of a better term.

But it was so powerful, humanizing George Floyd, not just being a corpse, not just being a dead body or somebody you saw on a video, but actually showing him being a brother, talking about him being a son.

It was a very powerful piece of testimony, especially when you juxtapose that against what's about to happen tomorrow. George Floyd, for the next four or five, six days is going to be called everything but a child of God in that courtroom.

He's going to be put on trial. The question is going to be asked, why did George Floyd kill himself by the criminal defense attorney? And so, when you juxtapose that, putting this human virtue on George Floyd was extremely powerful. And it is something that they don't do around the country.

I know, in courthouses I practice in, in North Carolina, South Carolina and Georgia, you don't get an opportunity to have that type of character witness, or the prosecution doesn't get that opportunity to have that type of character witness for the victim.

BLITZER: Paul, the defense will begin making its case tomorrow. The judge says closing arguments could start Monday.

What can we expect? What do you make of this timeline?

PAUL CALLAN, CNN LEGAL CONTRIBUTOR: Well, in trials, particularly murder trials, the pendulum swings back and forth.

And I got -- I have to say that the prosecutors did a really powerful presentation in this case. They really put together a very detailed and evidence-filled production. And they almost finished with the most emotional witness you could possibly have.

I think I would have disagreed with them calling the brother second to last. I would have put him on last. But, nonetheless, it was a good presentation.

The defense, on the other hand, knocked a lot of holes in the prosecutors' case. They raised some doubt, I think, or they tried to raise some doubt. And you're going to see them call force -- excessive force witnesses. You're going to see them called medical experts, who will very, very strongly contest the medical evidence that has come in to date.

So I think you're going to see a different picture next week from the defense. I would be very surprised if it happened otherwise. But, at this point, the prosecution is really ahead in the case by a substantial degree, I think.

BLITZER: Yes. And now it's the defense's turn to come up with their witnesses.

Sara, this is week three of testimony. How are the jurors, based on what you can see there -- and you're there on the scene for us -- holding up after all the emotional testimony, the details, sometimes very complicated medical information, that has been presented?

SIDNER: Yes, we only saw the jurors sort of become fidgety once in this entire time.

And we're now we're in the third week. and that was when there was a lot of technical information coming from those who are testifying, whether it be use of force or some of the medical witnesses.

But, for the most part, this jury has been paying very good attention. They have been taking notes the entire time of the trial. And so you have a jury that is attentive, that's paying attention, that's taking in the information, that is clearly taking this extremely seriously.

And it's what you want in a trial like this. We also should mention that, because of what happened here, because of the officer-involved shooting that left Daunte Wright dead in a city just next to Minneapolis, and because of the unrest that that caused, before the court was even -- the jury was even brought in today, there was an argument over sequestering this jury right now by the defense.

He put a motion forward saying they needed to be sequestered. They're seeing these protests. And then there were subsequent riots. And he said that they needed to be sequestered, so that this didn't affect their decision-making.

And the judge just said, no. He denied that, saying, look, all of these jurors were asked very specific questions about whether they could concentrate just on the information that they are learning in court and nothing else.

[18:15:09]

And each and every one of them said they absolutely could do that, that they could be impartial, no matter what they had heard about the case before and no matter what was happening in the community, that they could concentrate on just the information they were being given in court. And that's what they intended to do -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Bakari, the community, obviously, already on edge with this trial. And, Sunday, another black man was killed by a police officer, who says that she mistook her gun for a Taser.

How does that happen?

SELLERS: I don't know, Wolf. That's -- you have to laugh so you don't cry.

I mean, this is not an accidental shooting. And I hate that framing. I mean, this is reckless and negligent, at best. I mean, it's a reckless, negligent homicide.

I mean, this is -- but, again, I mean, I have to go back to -- I know these lawyers who are representing the George Floyd family and Justin Miller, who you just had on. This is a perpetual state of grieving, if you're black in this country.

I mean, you think about the Army lieutenant who was pulled over who had the wherewithal to pull to a well-lit area and start his own camera. And then he was maced. And then he was tried -- they tried to convince him that it was his fault.

You have this Chauvin trial, where you have nine minutes of a knee on your neck. Then you have this young man who was getting back in his car who was pulled over for just a minor traffic offense, who had minor outstanding warrants.

And regardless of whatever you say, resisting the police is not a death penalty crime. And then you want to tell me to my face and have me believe that you are an experienced officer, but you accidentally mistook your Taser for your gun. And this is just -- I mean, it's unacceptable, Wolf. It's hurtful.

It's tragic. But you know one thing that it is that's more than all of those things is, unfortunately, Wolf, it's American. This has become so American, where we have black people killed at the hands of law enforcement.

We're supposed to grieve. We hit the streets. Then we have a trial. We pray for justice. And then we do it all over again.

BLITZER: Paul, we're showing our viewers some live pictures coming in from Brooklyn Center, Minnesota. It's only about 10 miles or so from the courthouse where the Chauvin trial has been going on.

You see people protesting there. They're raising their support for Daunte Wright, the 20-year-old, who was killed by the police.

The police chief there in Brooklyn Center, Paul, says it was an accident, it was accidental. But a man is dead. What sort of charges do you think potentially could apply here?

CALLAN: Well, Wolf, Bakari summed it up very well as to the real tragedy involved in a case like this, and particularly for black America. I think it's a horrific thing.

And it's not going to get any better, because, I will tell you, from the standpoint of what applicable criminal charges are likely, we're really looking at a maximum charge of manslaughter in the second degree, if it is charged at all as a crime.

And my bet is that it won't be. It's going to be viewed as an accident. There might be a civil case for money damages. But I think it's very, very unlikely that even a manslaughter conviction would be handed down in the case, because, as the police chief says, it looks like an accident. And accidents generally are not a crime.

BLITZER: All right, we will see what happens on that front.

There's a lot going on, guys. Thank you very, very much.

We're also getting some new information right now on a deadly shooting at a Tennessee high school.

Stand by. We will update you when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:22:51]

BLITZER: In Virginia, two police officers have now been accused in a lawsuit of using excessive force during a December traffic stop in Virginia.

The officers pulled over an active-duty U.S. Army lieutenant, 2nd Lieutenant Caron Nazario, who's black and Latino. Body camera video shows officers pointing guns at Nazario, pepper-spraying him, and then pushing him to the ground, after pulling him over for what they believed was a missing license plate.

Here's just part of this interaction. And we want to warn our viewers, the video that you're about to see is very disturbing. It may be difficult to watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

2ND LT. CARON NAZARIO, U.S. ARMY: I'm serving this country, and this is how I'm treated?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, well, guess what? I'm a veteran too. I learned to obey. Get out of the car!

NAZARIO: What's going on?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get out of the car now!

NAZARIO: What's going on?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What is going on is, you're fixing to ride the lightning, son.

NAZARIO: I'm sorry, what?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get out of the car now!

NAZARIO: What's going on?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get out of the car now! Get out of the car!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sir, just get out of the car.

Work with us, and we will talk to you. Get out the car.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You received an order. Obey it.

NAZARIO: I'm -- I'm honestly afraid to get out. Can I ask, what is going...

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, you should be. Get out. Get out!

NAZARIO: What's going on? What did I do?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get out the car.

NAZARIO: I have not committed any crimes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're being stopped for a traffic violation. You're not cooperating. At this point right now, you're under arrest for...

NAZARIO: For a traffic...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You are being detained, OK? You are being detained for obstruction of justice.

NAZARIO: For a traffic violation, I do not have to get out of the vehicle. You haven't even told me why I'm being stopped.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Really?

NAZARIO: Get your hands off...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get out of the car now. Get out of the car.

NAZARIO: Get your hands off me, please. Get your hands off me. Get your hands off me. I didn't do anything. Don't do that.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sir...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get out of the car now.

NAZARIO: Don't do that. Don't do that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get out of the car now.

(CROSSTALK)

NAZARIO: Don't do -- I'm trying to talk to you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get out.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. I'm going to talk to you. Just get out of the car.

NAZARIO: Relax. Can you please relax? Can you please relax?

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get out of the car right now.

NAZARIO: This is not how you treat a vet. I'm actively serving this country, and this is how you're going to treat me?

I didn't do any -- whoa, hold on. What is going -- hold on. Watch it.

[18:25:07]

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get out of the car! Get out of the car now!

NAZARIO: That's (EXPLETIVE DELETED) up. That's (EXPLETIVE DELETED) up.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get out of the car now!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sir, just get out the car.

NAZARIO: I'm trying to breathe.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BLITZER: Police reports from the officers say Nazario was pepper- sprayed because he failed to comply with their orders to get out of the car and struck one of the officers when he tried to unlock the door.

Nazario's lawsuit says those statements are false, and the video footage contradicts those statements.

Meanwhile, CNN has learned that one of the two officers, Joe Gutierrez, was fired after an internal investigation.

Let's talk about this with the former Homeland Security Secretary Jeh Johnson. He's also the former general counsel at the U.S. Department of Defense.

Mr. Secretary, thanks for joining us.

JEH JOHNSON, FORMER U.S. SECRETARY OF HOMELAND SECURITY: Thank you.

BLITZER: I know this hits very personally to you. It fits home -- it hits home to you. The man faced in that uniform -- in that treatment was wearing a U.S. Army uniform, an active-duty lieutenant. Tell us what went through your mind watching that video.

JOHNSON: It was painful, Wolf. It does hit me very personally.

I have a son, the age of 2nd Lieutenant Nazario who is an active-duty member of the United States Coast Guard. Two years ago, he was stationed in Norfolk, Virginia. He may well have traveled that very road. And, very often, he would commute to and from work after a day of training wearing his military fatigues, just like the 2nd lieutenant was.

Wolf, I cannot tell you that my son, who is very respectful of law enforcement, very respectful of law and order, as am I, would have behaved any differently than 2nd Lieutenant Nazario. What -- he displayed his hands. He said, what is this about? What is this about? And he was treated like a thug, guns pointed at him.

He said, "I'm afraid."

It should never be the case in our nation that the person on the pointed end of the gun has to say to the peace officer, relax, calm down. It should never be that way. And so the common problem across all of these acts of excessive force by the police is, there are far too many law enforcement officers in this country who have no business carrying a gun in a moment of crisis.

And there is far too few instances of training in tactics of de- escalation. It's not always the -- it shouldn't always be the case where the officer escalates, escalates, escalates into something lethal, like this.

BLITZER: Yes.

And that area in Virginia, I know it well. You know it well. It's a very military area, a lot of active-duty military personnel from the Army or the Navy, the Air Force, the Coast Guard.

JOHNSON: Absolutely. Absolutely.

BLITZER: You would think you see -- you see a young man like that wearing the U.S. Army uniform. You're the former general counsel at the Department of Defense. You would think they would show at least a little bit of respect.

JOHNSON: Wolf, I think it's time that, in this country, we acknowledge that a white person in the same uniform would not have been treated the same way, would not have been regarded the way 2nd Lieutenant Nazario was regarded by these two police officers that night.

And you're right. That part of Virginia, that part of Eastern Virginia, just outside of the Norfolk-Hampton area, is filled with military. Every service has a presence there. And so if you -- if you're a law enforcement officer, you see somebody wearing the uniform of our nation, you should give them a break.

Give them the benefit of the doubt. Don't assume that this person's a dangerous actor. I believe that the Windsor, Virginia, community, police force owes not only the 2nd lieutenant an apology, but owes the entire United States Army an apology.

That was an assault on the individual, and it was assault on the uniform.

BLITZER: Yes, it certainly was.

And it's heartbreaking to see these things go on. And not even a year after George Floyd's death sparked these national protests, another black man was shot and killed by police in the Minneapolis area. We have got a protest under way there right now. We're showing you some live pictures from Brooklyn Center, about 10 miles from the courthouse where the trial is going on.

How much do these repeated incidents erode trust?

JOHNSON: Well, tremendously, obviously.

After the reports that the officer apparently thought she was using her Taser, I called a good friend of mine who is a retired law enforcement officer at the federal and local level.

[18:30:01]

And I said how can this happen? Doesn't law enforcement train, not to mistake their taser for their little weapon? You would think that the taser is positioned someplace different on the belt so that you don't make that very basic mistake. That's the type of mistake for which there ought to be zero tolerance for. So it's a shocking thing.

And I think we can't just simply brand that an accident. You give somebody a badge and a gun, you give them the training for uses of lethal force, and to see someone shot on the mistaken belief that the officer had a taser and not a lethal weapon, that's more than an accident.

BLITZER: It's heartbreaking for that family. And what we're seeing. It's just so, so sad. Let me turn while I have you, Mr. Secretary, there's separate police incident in Georgia where police officers were shot at and injured in a high-speed police chase. As we know, being a police officer is a dangerous job. So how do you balance those concerns when reforms are so badly needed?

JOHNSON: It's a good question, Wolf, and I think that's the essence of the inquiry that our nation needs to look at. It's the essence of the conversation that we need to have. But for every incident, like Georgia, like Minnesota, like Virginia, there are dozens of other incidents where an officer encounters a civilian over a $20 bill, a package of cigarettes and peacefully resolves the situation.

I know that from my own experience as the secretary of Homeland Security, from DOD and, frankly, as a civilian living my entire life in this country. But there are far too many incidents that escalate into something lethal and dangerous.

We need to think about who we recruit into our nation's law enforcement and we need to think about more and more -- and I've been saying this over and over on your network and others -- tactics in de- escalation so that officers are not simply escalating the situation to something dangerous, where they encounter somebody with a temporary license plate or a counterfeit $20, should not turn into something dangerous and lethal.

BLITZER: Yes. Those are not death sentences, to be sure. Well said, Mr. Secretary, thanks so much for joining us, Jeh Johnson, with some personal thoughts.

JOHNSON: Thank you.

BLITZER: Obviously an unpleasant situation unfolding. Thanks very much.

Coming up, Congressman Matt Gaetz denied a meeting with former President Trump as the congressman faces a sex scandal.

Plus, there's breaking news, a suspect in a deadly school shooting now in custody. We're learning new details.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:35:00]

BLITZER: Right now, we have some breaking news comes out of Tennessee. At least one person has died and a police officer has been injured in a shooting in a high school in Knoxville. We're told shots were fired when an officer approached the suspect at the scene. The mayor says the injured officer is conscious and will need to undergo surgery. One person has been detained for questioning. There's no word yet on a motive. Police say there is no longer an active threat to the school. We'll update you when we get more information. Now to the scandal surrounding Republican Congressman Matt Gaetz of Florida, a new evidence that his loyalty to Donald Trump is not necessarily paying off. Our Senior Washington Correspondent Joe Johns has our report.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

REP. MATT GAETZ (R-FL): I'm built for the battle and I'm not going anywhere.

JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Florida Congressman Matt Gaetz standing firm in his denial as the federal investigation into sex trafficking allegations continues.

GAETZ: The smears against me range from distortions of my personal life to wild, and I mean wild, conspiracy theories.

JOHNS: Sources tell CNN Gaetz was recently denied a meeting with former President Donald Trump at his Mar-a-Lago resort. Aides close to Trump, telling the former president not to stick his neck out for Gaetz, according to two people familiar with the matter. Both sides have publicly denied that the congressman made the request.

GAETZ: They are really coming for me. They're coming for you. I'm just in the way.

JOHNS: Gaetz speaking Friday at a conservative group event at Trump's Doral Golf Course property.

GAETZ: This past week has been full of encouragement from President Trump, Marjorie Taylor Greene and Jim Jordan.

JOHNS: Trump holding an RNC fundraiser Saturday at Mar-a-Lago highlighting several Republicans but did not mention Gaetz, sources said. But Trump did mention Gaetz in a short statement last week denying the congressman sought a blanket pardon, writing, it must be remembered that he has totally denied the accusations against him.

Trump's remarks at the fundraiser recounting debunked claims the 2020 election was stolen saying, the results were BS and calling Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell an dumb SOB and a stone cold loser for not doing more to challenge the outcome, according to a person in the room. He also took aim at former Vice President Mike Pence, saying he lacked courage. And he mocked Dr. Anthony Fauci, telling the crowd, everyone should call the coronavirus vaccine the Trumpcine.

Meanwhile as the federal investigation into Gaetz run its course, the House Ethics Committee is opening one of their own, looking into allegations including sexual misconduct, illicit drug use, sharing inappropriate images on the house floor, among others.

[18:40:00]

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi put the onus on Republican leadership to take action against Gaetz. REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): I think there's been a clear violation of that, but it's up to the Ethics Committee to investigate that and it's up to the Republican leader, Mr. McCarthy, to act upon that behavior.

REP. LIZ CHENEY (R-WY): Hi, everyone.

JOHNS: And Congresswoman Liz Cheney --

GAETZ: Defeat Liz Cheney in this upcoming election and Wyoming will bring Washington to its knees.

JOHNS: -- who was fiercely criticized by Gaetz for voting to impeach Trump following the Capitol riot, she stopped short of calling for his resignation.

CHENEY: As the mother of daughters, the charges certainly are sickening.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

JOHNS (on camera): And we saw some defiance from Matt Gaetz today on social media saying he hasn't begun to fight, just one more indication he has no intention of stepping down or stepping aside as the scrutiny on his alleged behavior continues. Wolf?

BLITZER: All right, Joe Johns, down to Florida for us. Thank you very much.

Let's get some more on all of this from two prominent Republicans, the former Ohio Governor, CNN Senior Commentator John Kasich, and former Senator and CNN Political Commentator Jeff Flake.

You know, Governor, this weekend prove that the former president is still recycling so many of the false claims about the election that he's been making since November. Does it matter to his base or his donors that he seems to be having nothing new to offer them?

JOHN KASICH, CNN SENIOR COMMENTATOR: You know, it's amazing to me, Wolf, that they sit in this room and hear more name-calling, more divisiveness, more anger. I mean, how do you expect to sell something to voters when you're just divisive and angry and name-calling and belittling?

You know, the party needs to move to a set of issues that will improve the lives of Americans, and so far I haven't heard any of what they plan to do. So as far as I'm concerned, the party is going to continue to shrink and not connect.

BLITZER: You know, it's interesting, Senator Flake, that Trump criticized his former vice president, Mike Pence, over the weekend, saying Pence lacked courage. Yet Pence continues to publicly defend Trump. Is it time for Pence to realign his loyalty?

JEFF FLAKE, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think that ship has sailed. It should have happened long ago. And if Matt Gaetz is wondering whether the president will be loyal to him, he need only look at Mike Pence, who was unfailingly loyal for four years. And then in the final act, did what he needed to do, what he should have done in declaring the election over. And that was too much for Donald Trump. So, yes, I would have liked to have seen it long before now, yes.

BLITZER: You know, it's interesting, you know, Governor Kasich, sources tell CNN Trump declined to meet with Congressman Matt Gaetz who's down in Florida, not far from Mar-A-Lago, as the scandal around him clearly is intensifying. Is this where Trump, do you believe, draws the line?

KASICH: Come on, Wolf, this is all so nuts down there, right? They got a bunch of people that come in. They all say the same thing. It's basically negative. It's attack on the other side with very few answers is to what we need to do going forward to help the American people. They got Donald Trump out there attacking and name-calling the leader of the Senate. You know it's just a mess. You know, it's so ugly.

And you know, what's interesting though is because if you check history -- and I'm sure Jeff would agree with this -- it's possible that Republicans will win the House, win the majority back. We'll see. But I hope they wouldn't see a victory like that as somehow justifying where they are and where they're been. They're not offering anything. And, frankly, I think the Democrats have to be very careful that they don't continue to trend to the left and spend money on things that we simply can't afford.

It's a mess in American politics today and the only way to get back to it is to have a moral underpinning that can allow us to solve problems for real people across America.

BLITZER: We've been hearing a lot from John Boehner, the former Republican speaker, Senator, talking about how the Republican Party needs to get back to its roots, the party of Boehner. Do you think that party still exists?

FLAKES: I think there are a number of Republicans, a lot of Republicans who want the get back there. But John is right. What went on in Mar-a-Lago, it plays well to the base, but it's a shrinking base. And if we want to be successful in future elections, then we have to do more what John Boehner is talking about. We've got to appeal to a broader electorate. And that shouldn't be hard to figure out, but that's what we've got to do.

BLITZER: All right guys, thank you very, very much.

Coming up, tens of thousands of Russian military forces are now amassing along its border with Ukraine, increasing tensions there and alarming U.S. officials. CNN has an exclusive report from the front lines. You don't want to miss this. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:49:27]

BLITZER: Tonight, there's growing concern among the United States and its allies about Russia's gathering an estimated 50,000 additional military troops along Ukraine's eastern border. Secretary of State Anthony Blinken and the NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg say Russia must immediately cease its aggressive military buildup.

CNN's senior international correspondent Matthew Chance is in Ukraine with an exclusive report from the front lines.

Matthew, tensions between these two countries are very high right now. Update our viewers.

[18:50:01]

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right. There are concerns being expressed across the board as well by the United States, by other allies in Europe as well.

We've got an amazing opportunity to tour the front lines with the Ukrainian president to discuss a range of issues, including the state of his troops, what Russia's intentions might be with that buildup of forces, of more than 50,000 soldiers across the border, and, of course, what the United States can do to try and help -- try to help bring this conflict to an end.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHANCE (voice-over): To the front lines, in Eastern Ukraine, the simmering conflict with Russian-backed rebels once again the focus of U.S. concern. As tensions with Russia ratchet higher, CNN has gained this unprecedented access to the Ukrainian president. With carefully planned troop visit, flying with him fast and low to avoid ground fire.

It's been a long time now, it's been seven years this war.

VOLODYMYR ZELENSKY, URKAINIAN PRESIDENT: Yes, during seven years, yes.

CHANCE: And how are the soldiers? Are they holding up or are they tired of this war?

ZELENSKY: They are tired, of course. Like any man, you know, during seven years, it's longer than the Second World War, as you see, and it's terrible.

CHANCE: Longer than the Second with its complex network of dank, muddy trenches, this so-called line of contact, in some places just a few dozen yards from the enemy, looks more like the First World War.

I mean, we have entered this warren of trenches that had been dug along the front line. I tell you, I mean, it's like being thrown back to the early 20th century and the Great War. I have not seen anything like this in modern warfare.

But this is modern, reality of confrontation with Moscow and its proxies.

Is there a chance that the Russians could be planning an invasion? ZELENSKY: Of course, of course. We know it. Beginning from 2014, we

know that it can be -- it can be anyway, each day, it can be. So, they are ready. And -- but we also ready because we are on our land -- on our land and our territory.

CHANCE: This is why Ukraine, the U.S., and the Western allies are so alarmed, amid growing tensions, a dramatic buildup of Russian forces near the Ukrainian border and in Crimea.

Cellphone footage emerged of armored columns like this one and of military hardware being transported by rail towards the border.

Ukrainian officials tell CNN they estimate more than 50,000 Russian troops are amassing. Moscow says it's just an exercise and not a threat.

But back at the line of contact, there's been a deadly upsurge in sniper fire. More than 20 soldiers killed, say Ukrainian officials, so far this year.

And out here, even the president runs the gauntlet.

We're going to run for it, right?

ZELENSKY: Yes, run. Run.

CHANCE: OK, all right. Come on, let's go.

So, we're very close now, aren't we, to the separatists.

ZELENSKY: That is open area.

CHANCE: That was amazing.

So we come so close now to the front line between Ukrainian forces and the Russian backed separatists, that President Zelensky and I just had to run to the open ground to get to this cover, because the situation is so volatile and potentially dangerous here.

Elected two years ago on the promise of ending this conflict, something he's failed to achieve, President Zelensky says he risked these hot spots as he calls them to show his front line soldiers they have political support.

But what Ukraine really needs, he says, is more assistance from Washington, more weapons, more money and crucially more backing to join NATO, the Western military alliance.

Supportive words from President Biden, he says, is simply no longer enough.

ZELENSKY: Ukraine need more than words. (INAUDIBLE)

CHANCE: Can I just ask a follow up on that?

ZELENSKY: Yes (INAUDIBLE). CHANCE: You understand, don't you, that if Ukraine were to get a NATO membership --

[18:55:05]

ZELENSKY: Yeah.

CHANCE: -- that might make the conflict in this country even worse? It would infuriate Moscow.

ZELENSKY: I can -- I can tell you. I can answer you. Maybe you are right but what now is going wrong, what we do here (ph), what our people do here, they fight.

So what can we do in the future? I don't know, but we are independent country and we decide where to be or where not to be. To be or not to be, you remember Shakespeare.

CHANCE: That is as they say the question, rather how much U.S. support can the Ukrainian now expects and the running drama being played out in this theater of war.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHANCE: Well, Wolf, it's been announced tonight that Tony Blinken, the U.S. secretary of state, will meet the Ukrainian president to discuss Russia at the NATO headquarters later this week -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Amazing reporting. Matthew, thank you. To you and your team, thank you so much.

And we'll have more news right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Finally tonight, we share more stories of people who died from the coronavirus.

Peter Kuchlik of New York was 61 years old. His daughter Samantha says he worked himself to the bone as a owner of dry cleaning business, hoping they will improve the lives of those who loved. She says he never complained and always showed kindness and humility.

Marie Luisa Quiroz of Texas was 92. She was a hardworking homemaker who raised five children with her husband after they immigrated from Mexico. Her granddaughter Anya she was funny, artistic, sometimes brutally honest but she had the biggest heart.

May they rest in peace and may their memories be a blessing.

Thanks for watching.

"ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT" starts right now.