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The Situation Room
Now: Harris Town Hall With Popular Radio Host Charlamagne tha God. Aired 5-6p ET
Aired October 15, 2024 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DAVID CULVER, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: -- or something, but I was assured that is a very serious part of conservation efforts here.
PAMELA BROWN, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Yes, nothing like putting on a panda suit for national television consumption. But wow, it is for a good cause.
David Culver in China, thank you so much. And you can follow the show on X at The Lead CNN. You can find me on X at Pamela Brown CNN. The news continues on CNN with Wolf Blitzer in the "Situation Room." Have a great night.
[17:00:27]
WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Happening now, breaking news, Kamala Harris is about to take questions from people all across pivotal battleground states during a radio town hall event. We'll listen to her remarks live this hour. And this comes as the vice president and the former president, Donald Trump, are intensifying their attacks on one another, with Election Day now just three weeks away. Harris offering some of her harshest comments about Trump, yet calling him, I'm quoting her now, "unhinged and unstable."
Welcome to our viewers here in the United States and around the world. I'm Wolf Blitzer. You're in the Situation Room.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is CNN breaking news.
BLITZER: This hour, Kamala Harris is sitting down with a popular syndicated radio host in hopes of getting her message out to a national audience, including voters in the make or break battleground states. CNN's Eva McKend is in Detroit for us, that's where the vice president is joining Charlamagne tha God for a town hall event.
Eva, what can we expect?
EVA MCKEND, CNN NATIONAL POLITICS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, this is part of a larger policy push that we have seen from the vice president to reach Black men. We know that this policy push is grounded in her support for entrepreneurs. She's talked about these forgivable loans, talked about legalizing marijuana, recreational marijuana, and ensuring that Black men have a seat at the table and a space in this industry if, in fact, develops, and also crypto currency. And listen, she is sitting with Charlamagne tha God to get this message out there. He's a popular host with a big audience, a largely Black audience. He is a supporter of hers, but he is also known for being very blunt. And so she's going to get questions from voters across the battleground states. And what we have seen emerge from the vice president and really her Democratic surrogates on her behalf, is say, listen, we understand that Black men are persuadable voters, just like everyone else just because she is a Black woman, she is under no illusion that it is going to be easy to get their support, and that ultimately, even though they may feel a kinship with the former president based on machismo, ultimately she will argue that she is the one that is best suited for the community and really all Americans based on her policy proposals.
So, she is going to make that argument tonight in Detroit. Wolf.
BLITZER: All right, Eva, thank you very, very much. Eva McKend, on the scene for us.
As we await the start of this radio town hall, I want to bring in our political panel.
And Van Jones, what does Kamala Harris need to accomplish tonight with this interview type town hall with Charlamagne tha God?
VAN JONES, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I think that our number one opportunity is to just be reconnected to an African- American constituency that really needs and deserves some love and some support. People keep asking like, why is she doing this? She's playing identity politics. No, she's not. Every other part of the coalition gets something out of it. The labor movement has requests and needs.
The women's movement with abortion, they have requests and needs. The immigrant movement community, they need certain things. The transgender community needs certain things. Nobody's mad, anybody else. But when she comes forward with this opportunity agenda that speaks to the needs of the Black male part of the coalition, it's seen as somehow strange.
I saw that thing as a love letter to African American men who get up every day, who work hard, the vast majority of Black men work every day, take care of our families and want more work, more wealth and better health. And she said, I've got --
BLITZER: And Van, hold on for a moment. I'm sorry to interrupt, but this town hall is beginning with Charlamagne, tha God and the vice president. I want to listen to in.
KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Like everyone know what I stand for and the issues that I think are at stake in this election. And so it requires repetition. You know, some people say that if, until someone has heard the same thing at least three times, it just doesn't stay with you. So repetition is important, and for that reason, yes. At my rallies, I say the same thing when I go to Detroit as I do in Philly, as I do wherever I am, to make sure that people hear and receive what I think are some of the most critical issues that are at stake in this election.
CHARLAMAGNE THA GOD, RADIO HOST: There has to be a high level of anxiety too, when you have these conversations, though, because you are running for president.
[17:05:07]
HARRIS: I mean, you know what, there's certainly a lot of -- I feel the weight of the moment and my role. I feel an extraordinary weight of responsibility right now to do everything I can. I'm telling you, Charlamagne, when I go to bed at night, I almost every night, in addition to my prayers, will ask, have I done everything I could do today?
This is a margin of error race. It's tight. I'm going to win. I'm going to win, but it's tight. And you know, what is at stake is truly profound and historic, many would say.
And it's about, you know, some people would say this lofty notion of supporting and preserving our democracy, but it is about real issues that affect people every day, like whether we're going to maintain a $35 cap on insulin for our seniors, whether we're going to continue to allow Medicare to negotiate drug prices to bring them down, whether we are going to have, as my opponent, would have, a formalized stop and frisk policy for which he has said, if a Police Department does not do it, they should be defunded or not. There is so much at stake. Whether America is going to stand on its principles around the importance of sovereignty and territorial integrity and stand with our allies around the world, or whether we're going to admire dictators and send during the height of COVID in the pandemic COVID test that nobody could get to the President of Russia for his personal use when Black people were dying every day by the hundreds during that time.
CHARLAMAGNE THA GOD: Yes, I feel like that one have gone over people's heads, the fact that he was sending COVID test to Putin.
HARRIS: I mean, you know, I invite -- I don't -- your listeners, the people we know, the number of people who lost their grandparents and parents, remember what that was like during the height of COVID and a lot of it, people were scrambling for the resources and needed tests. And Donald Trump, during that time, secretly sent COVID tests to the president of Russia, who, by the way, do not forget, in the 2016 election, because I was a member of the Senate Intelligence Committee when we investigated it, targeted Black voters in 2016 with mis and disinformation to discourage Black people from voting in that election. And this is just another of the very many examples of who Donald Trump really is --
CHARLAMAGNE THA GOD: Yes.
HARRIS: -- and the danger he presents --
CHARLAMAGNE THA GOD: Yes.
HARRIS: -- to real people. CHARLAMAGNE THA GOD: Sending COVID test to Russia, that doesn't sound very America First at all. But it's not just you versus Trump, it's you versus misinformation.
HARRIS: Yes, that's true.
CHARLAMAGNE THA GOD: Right? And one of the biggest pieces of misinformation, one of the biggest allegations against you, that you targeted and locked up 1000s of Black men in San Francisco for weeds. Some say you did it to boost your career. Some say you did it out of pure hate for Black men. Please tell us the facts.
What's the facts of that situation?
HARRIS: It's just simply not true. And what public defenders who around those days will tell you, I was the most progressive prosecutor in California on marijuana cases and would not send people to jail for simple possession of weed. And as vice president, have been a champion for bringing marijuana down on the schedule. So instead of it being ranked up there with heroin, we bring it down. And my pledges as president, I will work on decriminalizing it, because I know exactly how those laws have been used to disproportionately impact certain populations, and specifically Black men.
CHARLAMAGNE THA GOD: Before we get into, you know, the talk back feature and take some questions from the audience, I do want to talk to you about the legalization we -- because you saying you want to legalize it now. What steps did the Biden administration take to get closer to that reality?
HARRIS: So, we had to work with the DEA, and it's -- there's a certain level of bureaucracy that exists in the federal government that slows things down, but essentially to bring down how weed is classified, how marijuana is classified, to make it classified as a lesser harm. And so that took some time. There's a whole process around that, but that's the work that we have done, in addition to work that we have done writ large on criminal justice reform.
CHARLAMAGNE THA GOD: OK. Let's take some calls. Let's take some -- when I call, let's go to the talk back feature.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My question for Kamala is, why are we, and I say we because my tax dollars is sending the money, why are we sending money to other countries when we desperately need it in our own country, for homeless, housing, resources, for whatever? That is by determining factor if I vote for Kamala or not.
[17:10:03]
CHARLAMAGNE THA GOD: That's one of the reasons the America First rhetoric resonates, because nobody in America would complain about where money was going if American citizens every day needs were being met. So what do you say to that?
HARRIS: We can do it all, and we do. So, first of all, I maintain very strongly America should never pull ourselves away from our responsibility as a world leader. And that is in the best interest of our national security and each one of us as Americans and our standing in the world obligation to American citizens, obviously, and people who are here to meet their everyday needs and challenges, which is why, for example, we have done the work in the last four years of bringing down the cost of prescription medication, whether it be $35 a month for seniors for insulin or $2,000 a year cap on prescription medication.
What we have done that has been about putting $17 billion in our HBCUs, I am proud to be the first HBCU vice president of United States. I intend to be the first HBCU president --
CHARLAMAGNE THA GOD: OK.
HARRIS: -- of the United States. Those resources are about sending them to centers of academic excellence that I know them to be. The work that I continue to do is about increasing access to capital for our small businesses, it is about increasing the opportunity for home ownership knowing that Black people are 40 percent less likely to be homeowners in America. We have a history of legal and procedural obstacles to that homeownership, starting with the fact nobody got 40 acres and a mule, to redlining, to issues that this Detroit area and people around the country know to be real. So part of my plan is that we're going to give people a $25,000 down payment assistance to get their foot in the door to buy a home for first time home buyers.
The work that I'm going to do to increase housing supply in America, knowing that that's one of the reasons that rents and housing prices are jacked up, and to work with the private sector, cut through the red tape and work to build more housing 3 million before the end of my first term. And I give these examples, and there are many more which I will offer. So for example, the work that I will do to extend the child tax credit to $6,000 for young families during the first year of their child's life, because, as you and I both know, our families all have a natural desire to parent their children well, but not always resources. So by expanding the child tax credit to the first year of child's life to $6,000 that gives that young family the ability to buy a car seat or a crib or clothes, the things that are so important during that critical phase of that child's development, so that they can get on the road and actually have a chance at succeeding.
CHARLAMAGNE THA GOD: You know, you said, we can do it all, but can we? Because, you know, Tupac famously said, you know, we got money for war, but can't feed the poor, right? And I saw President Obama say last week that, you know, you really shouldn't expect, you know, a president, to rid the world of all of its problems. And so, is it fair to tell people, hey, we can do it all, because that's when people get disappointed when things don't happen.
HARRIS: But I think President Obama is absolutely correct, but it doesn't mean we can't do anything.
CHARLAMAGNE THA GOD: That's right.
HARRIS: So, when I talk about extending the Child Tax Credit, as -- when I was vice president, I pushed that we would do it during our first year, and we reduced child -- Black child poverty in America by 50 percent. We did that. We can do that.
My plan that is about building up homeownership in the Black community, we can do that. My work that has been about increasing access to capital, bringing billions more dollars into our community banks, which I've done as vice president, through cooperation and partnership with some of the big banks and tech companies to get more access to capital for our entrepreneurs, for our businesses. We've done that. So, we should never sit back and say, OK, I'm not going to vote because everything hasn't been solved. I share a desire that everything should be solved, by the way.
I think it is what we should all want. But that doesn't -- that shouldn't stand in the way of us also knowing we can participate in a process that's about improving things. And by voting in this election, you have two choices, or you don't vote, but you have two choices if you do, and it's two very different visions for our nation. One mind that is about taking us forward and progress and investing the American people, investing in their ambitions, dealing with their challenges. And the other, Donald Trump is about taking us backward.
CHARLAMAGNE THA GOD: The other is about fascism. Why can't we just say it?
HARRIS: Yes, we can say that.
CHARLAMAGNE THA GOD: Yes, yes. Reverend Solomon Kinloch, Jr., I want you to meet him. He is the senior pastor of Triumph Church. Where's Reverend Kinloch?
HARRIS: Oh, he's here?
CHARLAMAGNE THA GOD: Come on, tell Secret Service move out the way. It's OK. It's just the reverend. Yes, alright.
HARRIS: Hey, Reverend.
CHARLAMAGNE THA GOD: What's up, Reverend?
REV. SOLOMON KINLOCH, TRIUMP CHURCH PASTOR: Madam Vice President, Charlamagne --
[17:15:00]
CHARLAMAGNE THA GOD: Yes, sir.
KINLOCH: -- thank you all for being in Detroit tonight.
HARRIS: Thank you.
KINLOCH: Recently, Madam Vice President, by one of Trump's surrogates from the Black Faith Based community, you've been criticized by him and others for your lack of engagement to the Black church, knowing that the Black church is an unrivaled place in the heart of Black people. What could you speak to as it relates to a future Harris administration? How you would partner with the Black church to address some of the urgent needs of the Black community? Dr. King talked about the fierce urgency of right now and as a church, Triumph Church is in that place.
HARRIS: So first of all, that allegation, of course, is coming from the Trump team, because they are full of mis and disinformation, because they are trying to disconnect me from the people I have worked with and that I am from, so that they can try and have some advantage in this election, because otherwise they have nothing to run on. I grew up in the Black church. I grew up -- I grew up attending 23rd Avenue Church of God in Oakland, California.
CHARLAMAGNE THA GOD: That's a church.
HARRIS: Yes, that is church. My pastor is Amos C Brown (ph) of third Baptist Church in San Francisco, California.
CHARLAMAGNE THA GOD: Yes.
HARRIS: I have throughout my career and as vice president and recently been actively engaged in the church and church leaders, not only so we can share in fellowship, but so we can share in what we can do together. That is about supporting the community, the strength of the community, the cohesion of the community, and it is my long standing work, and therefore my pledge, going forward, I will always work closely with the church, because I understand who our church leaders are and who the congregation is. We are talking about people who are driven by faith and the ability to see what is possible by faith, where I was raised, and I know many of us were, understanding that our God is a loving God, that our faith propels us to act in a way that is about kindness and justice and mercy, that is about lifting one another up. And let's talk about the contrast here, Donald Trump and his followers spend full time trying to suggest that the measure of the strength of a leader is based on who you beat down, which is absolutely contrary to the church I know --
CHARLAMAGNE THA GOD: He sells Bibles, though.
HARRIS: -- where our church and my church is about saying true leadership. The measure of that is based on who you lift up. And right, and then he's selling $60 Bibles or tennis shoes and trying to play people as those that makes him more understanding of the Black community. Come on.
CHARLAMAGNE THA GOD: Thank you, Reverend.
KINLOCH: Thank you for the correction.
HARRIS: Thank you, Reverend.
CHARLAMAGNE THA GOD: Thank God, you're good.
KINLOCH: Appreciate your (inaudible).
HARRIS: Every day, all the time.
CHARLAMAGNE THA GOD: There you go. Make sure you get that right.
Now, have you seen the clip, Madam Vice President, from TheGrio? It's a clip that's kind of out of context, and it says that you won't do anything specifically for Black people. Have you seen that, have you?
HARRIS: I have not seen that.
CHARLAMAGNE THA GOD: Well, it's a clip that has you saying that you you're not going to do anything specifically for Black people.
HARRIS: Well, that's just not true. And listen again, you said it at the beginning of this visit, Charlamagne, one of the biggest challenges that I face is mis and disinformation, and it's purposeful, because it is meant to convince people that they somehow should not believe that the work that I have done has occurred and has meaning. My work from the beginning of my career through today has been about, for example, we've talked about it whether it be on HBCUs, whether it be on healthcare, Black maternal mortality, I am singularly, many would say, one of the highest level leaders in our country to bring the issue of Black maternal mortality to the stage of the White House to address it. The work that I've done that has been about focusing on my knowledge and my experience in my life, experience of knowing, the entrepreneurship that we have in the community, the ambition, the aspirations, the dreams, and then tapping into that so that not only is my work been about ensuring that we have some of the lowest Black unemployment ever in our country, but that also knowing that that should be a baseline, that everybody has a job, and what we should be invested in is also building wealth in the community and intergenerational wealth, and I have many, many examples of that.
But again, part of the challenge that I face is that they are trying to scare people away because they know they otherwise have nothing to run on. Ask Donald Trump what his plan is for Black America. Ask him. What -- you know, I'll tell you what it is. Look at Project 2025.
[17:20:08]
Project 2025 tells you the plan includes making police departments have stop and frisk policies. The plan includes making it more difficult for workers to receive overtime pay. The plan includes ending the ability of Medicare to negotiate drug prices. You know what we have done? He said he would, we did, which means that that's how we brought down the cost of prescription medication.
His plan includes making it more difficult for working people to get by and to destroy our democracy. You know what he says he'll do, terminate the Constitution of United States.
CHARLAMAGNE THA GOD: That's right.
HARRIS: Let me remind folks, you know what's in the Constitution United States, the Fourth Amendment, which protects you against unreasonable searches and seizures, the Fifth Amendment, the Sixth Amendment, the 14th Amendment, and he's going to terminate the Constitution of United States, which in most of those amendments, one thing or another, was about a movement spurred by Black people to ensure that we would be equally protected under the law. Come on.
CHARLAMAGNE THA GOD: Let's take a question from TalkBack. JOSHUA FISHER (PH), VOTER: Hi. My name is Joshua Fisher (ph), age 31 years old. African-American male from Las Vegas, Nevada. I'd like to ask Madam Vice President what laws does she have planned to make sure that there's a stop to police brutality and murders that have been going on viciously.
HARRIS: So again, the work that I have done through my career and the most recently, even when I was in the United States Senate to help write the George Floyd Justice in Policing Act. Cory Booker and I worked very closely on that.
CHARLAMAGNE THA GOD: Could you tell people why that didn't pass? So give folks a quick civics less.
HARRIS: We couldn't get the votes in Congress. There's a clip somewhere of me fighting with a Republican senator to actually --
CHARLAMAGNE THA GOD: (Inaudible).
HARRIS: Right. To actually get it passed. We couldn't get it passed. But what we did when we came in office and during the time that I've been vice president, is we passed an executive order. So, whereas we were trying, and I have been trying to make these things national so that everyone would have to do it.
An executive order by the president and our administration says that for federal law enforcement, the following things have to happen, which we, for the first time, put in place, no knock warrants, barring chokeholds, a national database. Now it's for federal law enforcement, but a national database for us to collect information and track police officers who have broken the law. And this is no small issue, this piece, in addition everything else, because, as we know, we've seen plenty of examples of a police officer who committed misconduct in one jurisdiction and then goes to another jurisdiction and gets hired because there's no place that's tracking their misconduct. So these are the some of the things that we've done.
And then, listen, I'm still going to always work on getting the judge -- George Floyd Justice in Policing Act packed. Part of the work that I'm doing as a candidate for president united states includes lifting up those candidates who are running, either for reelection or for the first time to Congress, who are supportive of what we need to do on all of the issues we've been discussing, whether it be freedom to vote in passing the John Lewis Voting Rights Advancement Act, whether it be freedom to make decisions about your own body, whether it be the freedom to just be and be free from any brutality, including police brutality, when and where it occurs.
CHARLAMAGNE THA GOD: I think a lot of the frustration comes from people who will say, sometimes politicians volunteer lies because, you know, yes, it's great to try to pass the George Floyd Policing Act, but you probably know you can't get the votes. So why push that? Why push that on the people when you don't have the vote?
HARRIS: I don't subscribe to that approach, and I'm going to tell you why. Look, it took a long time for the Voting Rights Act to get done. It took -- you know, it took the brutality of what happened when John Lewis and all those were trying to cross the Edmund Pettus Bridge. It took a lot of work over our history to do what we have accomplished thus far. And we have to remain committed.
CHARLAMAGNE THA GOD: How do you convince Republican senator as you just said?
HARRIS: Well, part of it --
CHARLAMAGNE THA GOD: Partisan Republican senators.
HARRIS: Well, part of it is that their constituents are part of this. I mean, we have plenty of folks who want this, who live in districts where they serve. And this is the point -- this gets back to the earlier point about you can't let anybody take you out of the game by not voting. You got -- the solutions, and maybe this is the point you're making about what President Obama said, the solutions are not going to happen just overnight. And the solutions that we all want are not going to happen in totality because of one election.
[17:25:00]
But here's the thing, the things that we want and are prepared to fight for won't happen if we're not active and if we don't participate. We cannot allow circumstances to take us out the game, because then, basically what we're saying is all those people who are obstructionist, who are standing in the way of change, they're winning because they're convincing people that it can't be done, so take yourself out, don't participate. Look at that circle. Look at that vicious circle then. So let's not fall for it.
CHARLAMAGNE THA GOD: Zeek, this is my man, Zeek. He's the president and CEO of New Era Detroit. He wants to talk to you about your Black male agenda --
HARRIS: OK, good.
CHARLAMAGNE THA GOD: -- for the Black community, or just your agenda for the Black community, period.
Zeek, what's up, brother?
ZEEK WILLIAMS, CEO, NEW ERA DETROIT: What up doe? What up doe, Madam Vice President, Charlamagne tha God, what up doe, and welcome to Detroit.
CHARLAMAGNE THA GOD: Yes, sir.
HARRIS: Good to be back.
WILLIAMS: I like to say to real Detroit, because I'm up in here. My name is Zeek, New Era founder, CEO. I worked on the ground here in Detroit and in Black communities all across the country. Forward the past 10 years, actually celebrating our 10th year this past August.
HARRIS: All right. WILLIAMS: In my 10 years of organizing, we played a major role in a resurgence of pride and the change in mindset in Detroit neighborhoods across the city. We are not only known for the work that we do here in Detroit, but across the country and Black communities, having worked in over 35 cities of the Blackest cities in America. Saying all that to say, I'm extremely qualified to sit in front of the current vice president and which can be the next president of the United States of America.
As I pose my question to you, I would first like to make it known that I don't have any emotional connections to politicians. I believe that this is one of our biggest flaws in the current political process. I view politics as a business, and America is one of the biggest corporations in the world. With that being said, I'm here on behalf of the business of the Black community.
With all that Black Americans have been through and contribute to the success of America, I feel that there should be an in depth investigation or evaluation of the lack of resources and current living conditions in Black communities nationwide. My question to you is, what's your stance on reparations? We all know that America became great, you know, off the backs of free Black labor. How progressive are you on making it a priority. And right in America's wrongs is understood that you are running for president for all people of America.
Asking for specifics for Black communities doesn't mean don't do for others, but Black Americans are heavily asked to vote Democrat in every election for over half a century, with very little in return. What are your plans to address these very important issues and change that narrative?
CHARLAMAGNE THA GOD: Thank you, Zeke.
HARRIS: I appreciate that. Thank you and thank you for your work.
So, to your point, yes, I am running to be a president for all Americans. That being said, I do have clear eyes about the disparities that exist and the context in which they exist, meaning history to your point. So my agenda -- well, first of all, on the point of reparations, it has to be studied. There's no question about that. And I've been very clear about that position.
In terms of my immediate plan, I will tell you a few of the following. One, as it relates to the economy, which is a lot of what you have addressed. Look, I grew up in the middle class. My mother, you know, worked hard, raised me and my sister, and by the time I was in high school, she was able to afford our first home. I know what it means for an individual and a family to have homeownership.
I also know, in the context of history, nobody got 40 acres and a mule. We have a history of a number of things, including redlining. Detroit knows it well, a history of, for example, something that still exists that I've worked on to address, which is racial bias and home appraisals. And we know homeownership is Black families are 40 percent less likely to be homeowners than others. And that homeownership is one of the surest ways to build intergenerational wealth, right?
Because when you own a home, that's when if your child says, daddy, I want to go to college, you can say, sweetheart, don't have to take out a loan, I'll take some equity out of the house. Or if your child says, I want to start the same -- a small business, same point, right? So, my plan includes making sure that for first time homebuyers, they have a $25,000 down payment assistance to just get their foot in the door, because we know folks will work hard, they'll save and pay that monthly mortgage.
Second point is to bring down the cost of housing generally, because one of the issues is we have a housing supply shortage, and so that's about working with the private sector.
In terms of our small businesses, which are part of the backbone of the economy, of the black community, and part of the backbone of America's economy writ large. My second mother, the woman who helped raise us was a small business owner. I know who our small business owners are. And I have convened black small business owners way before I was running for president.
In my official office at the White House to talk with young entrepreneurs, mostly young, about the work that they are doing that is about clean energy, work, technology as well as the traditional, you know, whether it be a barber shop or a restaurant, one of the big issues facing black entrepreneurs and black small businesses is access to capital.
Because unlike my opponent, who got handed $400 million on a silver platter and then filed bankruptcy six times, don't forget that, calls himself a businessman, not everybody has access to the capital, but they -- but we know in the community, we do not lack for ambition, aspirations, dreams, hard, work ethic. And so my work has been as Vice President to increase billions of dollars into community banks. And as Vice President, part of that work will also be to change the tax deduction for startup small businesses from $5,000 to $50,000 because nobody can start a small business on $5,000. And if you don't otherwise have intergenerational wealth, how are you going to be able to do it?
Second point on small business is this, I'm going to do basically, it's a program that is about a $20,000 non-refundable loan to a certain to -- to, basically, businesses that don't have access to wealth and don't have those relationships, which is going to directly impact a lot of small, biz -- black owned small businesses. That $20,000 non-refundable loan is what would help somebody if they need to buy equipment, right? If they need to buy an extra chuck, depending on what that business is, which we know that's a big part of what holds back our small businesses, just having enough capital to actually pay for the things that allow you to then put your hard work into play to actually grow your business.
The other piece, and this is something that is critically important, is to see black folks, and in particular black men as a whole human being. And understand that we are talking about sons. We are talking about fathers. We are talking about grandsons. We are talking about grandparents. We're talking about uncles. And -- and, and so I say that as a preface to say two other things, and then I'll -- I'll keep going.
One to deal with --
CHARLAMAGNE THA GOD, RADIO HOST: You keep going?
HARRIS: -- I mean, you like that, you caught that.
CHARLAMAGNE THA GOD: OK, filibuster, ma'am.
HARRIS: To deal with healthcare for black people, and black men in particular. We know that we still have a lot of work to do to increase, for example, the high risk that we have for colon cancer, for prostate cancer, right? And -- and to increase screenings and to make sure that people are actually going to get the screenings, not to mention the higher -- the higher risk for sickle cell.
So part of my agenda is about what we will do to deal with and -- and -- and highlight what we've got to do to focus on black men's health. And then a similar point is this, 40 percent of caregivers are men. And we know culturally, we take care of our elders. And we have a lot of men in the community who are in the sandwich generation, who are trying to take care of their young kids and take care of an elder parent or relative.
And it's -- it -- it -- it's overwhelming for people to be able to do both, and a lot of people have to end up thinking about leaving their job to just do it.
CHARLAMAGNE THA GOD: Right.
HARRIS: So my plan is this one, in order for people to then afford assistance, for -- for hiring healthcare, home healthcare, they basically have to go broke to -- to be eligible for Medicaid. My plan is this, let's have Medicare. And this is, I've -- I've mapped it out, and we can make it work. Medicare cover the cost of home healthcare for seniors, which means that you are looking at individuals in the context of their whole family.
Because what we know is, again, understanding the culture, understanding the reality lots of people are having to leave work in order to do that. So these are some examples of my agenda. And overall, it is an agenda that understands, by the way, because we -- we've talked already a lot about criminal justice, that the needs of the black community are not just about criminal justice.
CHARLAMAGNE THA GOD: We need that money.
HARRIS: It's about, yes, because here's the thing, we have brought down black unemployment. I said this earlier to the one of the lowest levels in history. But I'm very clear the community is not going to stand up and applaud just because everybody has a job that should be a baseline. My agenda is about tapping into the ambitions and the aspirations, knowing that folks want to have an opportunity. If they want, they should have a meaningful opportunity to build wealth, including intergenerational wealth, and that's my agenda.
[17:35:26]
CHARLAMAGNE THA GOD: You know, there's a -- there's a couple of things that you said --
HARRIS: I appreciate you. Thank you.
CHARLAMAGNE THA GOD: Thank you. There -- there was a couple of things that you said that people would say were talking points, but it's really just your story, even though they are becoming your greatest hits when -- when you -- when you talk about the middle class and your -- your godmother being a small business owner, but that's just your story.
HARRIS: It's my story.
CHARLAMAGNE THA GOD: Mm-hmm.
HARRIS: Look, I've been in this race 70 days.
CHARLAMAGNE THA GOD: Yes.
HARRIS: Some people are just getting to know me.
CHARLAMAGNE THA GOD: Yes.
HARRIS: Other people have known me.
CHARLAMAGNE THA GOD: Mm-hmm.
HARRIS: And I owe it, listen, I feel very strongly, I need to earn every vote, which is I -- why I'm here having this candid conversation with you and your listeners.
CHARLAMAGNE THA GOD: Mm-hmm.
HARRIS: I -- I have to earn people's support, and I am working to do that.
CHARLAMAGNE THA GOD: Before we go to another Talk Back call, I want to say there -- there was a time I had a politician tell me once that if you're running for a national election, it's bad electoral strategy to say you are going to do things specifically for black people, which is why a lot of politicians don't speak directly to their plans for black people. Was -- is that a thing?
HARRIS: I don't -- I don't know that that's true. I think that what is true is that I am running to be president for everybody. But I am clear eyed about the -- the -- the history and the disparities that exist for specific communities, and I'm not going to shy away from that. It doesn't mean that my policies aren't going to benefit everybody because they are. Everything I just talked about will benefit everybody, small business owners, whatever their race, their age, their gender, their geographic location, are going to benefit from the fact that I'm going to extend tax deductions to $50,000. Every first time homeowner, wherever they are, whatever their race, will benefit if they are a first time home buyer with a $25,000 down payment assistance. Everyone is going to benefit from my plan to extend the child tax credit to $6,000 for the first year of their child's life. That's going to benefit everybody. But I do realize again, that on the issue of homeownership, for example, black people are 40 percent less likely to own a home, so.
CHARLAMAGNE THA GOD: Do you, you know, do -- do you feel like President Obama stepped on your rollout? Because I know you've been working on this black male agenda for -- for a long time, and you've been doing the -- the outreach, you know, which was the opportunity economy tour and things like that.
HARRIS: Yes, yes.
CHARLAMAGNE THA GOD: But then he made the statements that he made last week, so everybody thinks this is a reaction to that.
HARRIS: Oh no, no, no, no. I mean, you just have to, no. Obviously, not. I've been doing this for quite some time, including before I was running for president.
HARRIS: Let's go to talk about that guy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hi, I'm Bobby from Georgia, and I have a question for Kamala Harris. Could you please respond to Trump's claim that he's going to use the Alien Enemies Act of 1798 to round up immigrants if he wins the election, this law was last used to put Asian Americans in internment camps during World War II, and I have a sneaking suspicion that if Trump wins, he's going to use this law to put anyone that doesn't look white in camps. And I'm scared.
HARRIS: Yes, so you've hit on a really important point and expressed it I think so well which is he is achieving his intended affect to make you scared. He is running full time on a campaign that is about instilling fear. Not about hope, not about optimism, not about the future but about fear. And so this is yet another example, look what he did in saying that those legal immigrants in Springfield Ohio were eating their pets.
He and -- and by the way the hypocrisy of it abounds because on the issue of immigration, let's be clear, some of the most conservative members of the United States Congress working with others came up with the Border Security Bill which was the strongest, toughest border security bill in a long -- long time. It would have put 1,500 more border agents at the border. It would have reduced the flow of fentanyl into our country which is killing people all over our country of every race and background.
It would have allowed us to do more work on prosecuting transnational criminal organizations, which I have done in my career. Trump got word that -- that bill was afoot, knew it would fix the problem and told his buddies in congress to kill the bill and you know why? Because he would prefer to run on a problem instead of fixing a problem. And he's running his campaign in a way that he does his rallies where people by the way, walk out.
And does these rallies to try to instill fear around an issue where he actually could be part of a solution but he chose not to because he prefers to run on a problem instead of fix the problem. And we got to call it out and see it for what it is.
[17:40:06]
CHARLAMAGNE THA GOD: But does the Biden administration have to take for some blame for the border though, a lot of the blame? Because I mean the first three years, you did get a lot of things wrong with the border.
HARRIS: Charlamagne, within hours of being inaugurated, the first bill we passed before we did the Inflation Reduction Act, before we did the Bipartisan Infrastructure Act, before we did the -- the -- the Safer Communities Act to deal with gun violence, first thing we dropped was a bill to fix the broken immigration system. Which by the way, Trump did not fix when he was president.
And you can look at every step along the way, we then tightened up the -- the asylum application process. We then worked with what we needed to do to secure ports of entry. We did a number of things including what we did to try and get that border security bill passed and then also, an executive order that has actually reduced significantly the number of illegal crossings and -- and tightened up what needs to happen in between ports of entry but no, we've been working on it ever since but --
CHARLAMAGNE THA GOD: So what went wrong?
HARRIS: -- but -- but -- but -- well -- but -- here's -- here's -- here's what -- what has to happen. Congress has to act to fix the immigration system. And it has been broken for a long time. Congress has to act but it does not help when finally, a bipartisan group got together to fix it. And Donald Trump told them, hold on, don't do that because it won't -- it won't help me politically.
CHARLAMAGNE THA GOD: Why do you allow him to call you the border czar? And that were -- that's not even your -- that wasn't your role.
HARRIS: I'm not giving him permission for that.
CHARLAMAGNE THA GOD: You're right. But -- but I mean you don't push back on it because that wasn't, you know, that's not -- that wasn't your role. What -- what --
HARRIS: Fact checkers have made that clear. Look, if I respond to every name he called me I wouldn't be focus on the things that actually help the American people and that's my focus.
CHARLAMAGNE THA GOD: That is -- that is true. Before we go to Talk Back, I want us to talk about something else. I don't feel like the Biden administration has treated Trump like a real threat to democracy and that's why America doesn't realize how much of a threat he is. It's one thing to say it but you have to act on it. Don't you believe that Merrick Garland should have moved faster to put Donald Trump in prison for leading an attempted coup in this country?
HARRIS: The Department of Justice is -- it has independence, it turns out to make those decisions as they should. And let's also be very clear Donald --
CHARLAMAGNE THA GOD: But what do you think?
HARRIS: -- no, no, I -- Donald Trump has been very clear that he would weaponize the Department of Justice against his political enemies. He has been very clear, that he would take out the independent folks who are in there and put in there instead his loyalists. So understand again, you talk about because this brings back to exactly your point about threats to the -- to our democracy.
Donald Trump -- Donald Trump would go in to the Department of Justice and manipulate it in such a way that it would be used as a weapon against his political enemies.
CHARLAMAGNE THA GOD: Yes, he's going to lock you all up if he gets back in office.
HARRIS: Well, by the way. He's going -- he -- he used -- he should look at his words. I don't think that you as a journalist should -- should feel so -- so sure that.
CHARLAMAGNE THA GOD: Oh, I know that. Oh, 100 percent. I'm out of here.
HARRIS: A -- a journalist, judges, others. And you know who does that? Dictators do that. Other countries do that. Which is say that you're going to send as he has the military to go and -- and -- and suppress peaceful protestors. That happens in other countries, that's not supposed to happen in America. So do understand when this man says what he says, how that would play out in real time.
CHARLAMAGNE THA GOD: So why is it OK for him to say he'll lock up his political opponents, but it's not OK for you to say he should be in prison when he's actually committed crimes?
HARRIS: Oh, I've been really clear. I think that the -- the court should handle that. And I'm going to handle November.
CHARLAMAGNE THA GOD: The court should handle that, OK. Let's go to Talk Back, Eddie (ph). What we got?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: President Harris, are men and women in the military are sent to foreign countries to fight for their freedom. Win or lose, Donald Trump has promised to seek revenge. My question is, will our military be there to fight for our freedom, after the election, should Trump start another insurrection?
HARRIS: Well you raised a profound point. That is -- very much a -- a part of this elections cycle in terms of what the American people have a choice right now. So, January 6th, Donald Trump incited a violent mob to try and undo the will of the people and undo the results of a free and fair election. That violent mob attacked the United States Capitol. Over 140 law enforcement officers were injured, some of them were killed.
And he has said since then, that there would be a blood bath after this election. He has, on your point about the military referred to members of our military as suckers and losers, which is why by the way, do see the number of military leaders who worked under his administration who are supporting me.
[17:45:20]
And I will point out what everyone knows which is that the people who worked the closest with Donald Trump when he was President, worked with him in the Oval Office. Saw at him at playing in The Situation Room. His Chief of Staff, two Secretaries of Defense, his National Security Advisor and his former Vice President have all said he is dangerous and unfit to serve.
Mark Milley, the former Chairman of the Joint Chief of Staff, most recently articulated exactly that point. And, again, you know, that -- here's, Charlamagne, one of the things that I think is really -- ironic -- but at play. Donald Trump through his -- his -- his way of trying to name call and demean and divide, tries to project as though those things are a sign of strength. When in fact, the man is quite weak. He's weak. It's a sign of weakness, that you want to please dictators and seek their flattery and favor.
It's a sign of weakness that you would demean America's military and America's service members. It's a sign of weakness that you don't have the courage to stand up for the constitution of the United States and the principles upon which it stands. This man is weak and he is unfit.
CHARLAMAGNE THA GOD: So why is everybody sitting around acting like Donald Trump isn't going to plan to steal this election if he lose? Like you know he probably going to officials wants to certify the results of the election. We know it's Donald Trump's Supreme Court, why are people acting like this is going to be a free and fair election and he won't try to steal it?
HARRIS: Well but those are two different points.
CHARLAMAGNE THA GOD: OK.
HARRIS: It will be a free and fair election, if, we, the American people, stand up for that. You know I -- I see it as this, I think that -- their democracy has -- it's like two points of nature. One, there's a -- a -- a fact about a democracy that when it is intact, it -- the strength that it possesses in terms of the protection of people's individual rights and liberties.
When a democracy is intact, we protect your rights and your liberties, strength. Democracy is also very fragile. It will only be strong, as our willingness, we the people to fight for it. And that as much as anything is what's at play in this election. Fight for our democracy, flawed though it is, imperfect though it may be. Because there are very two real paths right now, the man has told you he intends to terminate the Constitution, the man has told you all these things about his disregard and disrespect for your freedoms and liberty, including the right of a woman to make decisions about her own body.
And he hand-selected three members of United States Supreme Court with the intention they would do exactly what they did. One out of three women in America lives in a -- in a state with the Trump abortion ban. You know every state except Virginia in the south has an abortion ban? You know where the majority of black women live? In the south, in those same states that have some of the highest rates of black maternal mortality.
And they want to strut around talking about this is in the interest of women and children and they've been silent on the issue like black maternal mortality. But I know that people are aware and clear-eyed. And I do believe that on Election Day and early voting in Michigan starts in four days. People are going to go to the polls and they're going to vote to stand up for these principles and to stand up for their rights to freedom and liberty. And to live and just be free to be. I believe that.
CHARLAMAGNE THA GOD: I want to bring in my guy, Isaac Bezo (ph). He's very politically engaged, I want to ask you a question while he's coming in. Just a quick question. There's a rumor that Janet Jackson is mad at you because you prosecuted her brother, the late great, Michael Jackson. That's on -- that's on the internet. Clear it that up for people.
HARRIS: That's just not true.
CHARLAMAGNE THA GOD: I know.
HARRIS: Yes. On either account.
CHARLAMAGNE THA GOD: Oh, she, you know, she's not mad at you?
HARRIS: Well, I mean I don't know. I don't know. I have not talked to her. But that certainly is not true about her brother.
CHARLAMAGNE THA GOD: Bezo (ph).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Charlamagne, what's up? Madame Vice President --
HARRIS: How are you doing?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: -- how are you doing today? As with sandy trait, what's up Doug? So yesterday I read that there is a new opportunity agenda, a plan for black men which includes a proposal, a forgivable loans up to $20,000 for 1 million black entrepreneurs. What would you say to the people that will consider the timing of that -- of this proposal as political timing and how would you speak to the sentiment that support for black men is on the sought-out during election cycles and feels that building trust requires a consistent engagement and genuine investment into the community outside of election periods and po -- and political benefits for politicians and may view that some people in a Democrat Party use black Americans to play identity politics?
[17:50:28] HARRIS: So first of all, thank you for your question and for being here. I've been in this race about 70 days. You can look at all my work before those 70 days to know that this -- what I'm talking about right now is not new and is not for the sake of winning this election. This is about a long standing commitment, including the work that I've done as Vice President and before when I was Senator and before that.
In fact, a lot of what I'm doing that is about my -- my economic agenda, an opportunity economy was born out of the work I did as Vice President and before that as Senator most -- most recently to get access to capital for our entrepreneurs. The work that I did in the Senate was about getting a couple billion more dollars into our community banks and then building on that when I became Vice President. I created it -- it's called the Economic Opportunity Council bringing in some of the biggest banks and technology companies to put more into the community banks.
And I'm going to tell you one of the reasons why because I have been aware for years, black entrepreneurs only get 1 percent of venture capital funding. Of all the venture capital funding, only 1 percent goes to black entrepreneurs. We don't -- we don't have the same rates of -- of access to capital, be it through family or through connections, which is why I've done the work of putting billions more dollars and working to put billions more dollars into community banks which go direct -- directly to the community.
My work around the $20,000 is building on that and understanding that, you know, I convene for example, I -- I said this earlier, a group of -- of black entrepreneurs, way before I was running for -- for president in my official office at the White House, to hear some of the obstacles that they were facing and one of them was what we need to do around getting folks the help to just be able to buy the equipment they need to run their business.
And often time, we find that when black entrepreneurs and black people apply for credit, they're denied at a higher rate than others. We have also seen and the data proves this, that all of those -- the realities also tend to -- to -- to swayed black folks and black entrepreneurs in particular from even applying for credit.
So, my point is to work on every way that we can approach the issue to encourage people and -- and invest in their ambition. Because I know the ambition is there. I know the talent is there. I know the innovation is there. And certainly the hard work ethic. So, this is not new work for me. And --
CHARLAMAGNE THA GOD: You should speak to the American Rescue Plan too because I mean tens of millions of dollars I -- I know small businesses in North Carolina that small black businesses that got tens of millions of dollars because of that, I'm going to let you speak to that.
HARRIS: Well, that's right and that was from the first time -- from when we first came in. The American Rescue Plan, the work that we have done, the -- the -- the infrastructure bill, I mean part of that is we -- we made a -- a decision that we were going to increase the number of federal contracts that go to historically under-represented businesses. This was way before I was running. This was years ago. So this is not my work.
CHARLAMAGNE THA GOD: Lets go to the Talk Back feature.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So occasions recently done, women have stated that there is a large group of black men who believe Donald Trump sent them a personal cheque during COVID because his name was on it, versus it coming from the government as a stimulus cheque. Can you provide some clarification on this?
CHARLAMAGNE THA GOD: Speak to the stimmy.
HARRIS: I'm -- I'm so glad you raised that. So -- so here's what happened. A majority Democratic Congress fought to get those stimulus cheques out, fought against resistance by the Trump administration and won, because we had a majority of Democrats in Congress. And that's why those cheques went out. As we all know and grew up learning, Congress holds the purse strings. It was Congress that made that decision and then Donald Trump, never being one to -- to pass up an opportunity to give himself credit when no credit is due put his name on those cheques.
And sadly, it resulted in people thinking Donald Trump was responsible for and directly responsible for putting money in their pocket. When in fact, it was a Democratic majority Congress that was responsible for those cheques going out.
[17:55:01]
CHARLAMAGNE THA GOD: Why -- why is it hard for Democrats for to message their wins on the economy? Like since World War II, the economy has done better under a Democrat president.
HARRIS: Yes.
CHARLAMAGNE THA GOD: This is just a historical fact.
HARRIS: That's true.
CHARLAMAGNE THA GOD: But for some reason the narrative is that the economy does better under Republicans. Why do people believe that and why don't Democrats push back on that narrative more?
HARRIS: Well, I, you know, we -- I think that part of the issue is that Democrats probably talk about it more in terms of what we are doing for people rather than the economy when in fact when you do for people the economy grows. And, you are absolutely right, Charlamagne, you will look at the growth of the economy under in compare Democratic and Republican administrations.
Democrats have been -- have accelerated economic growth. My plan for example, OK, so some of the smartest economists in the country have reviewed and compared my plan to Donald Trump's plan for the economy, from Goldman Sachs to Moody's to 16 Nobel Laureates and even most recently "The Wall Street Journal." And in comparing our two plans, the net results is my plans will strengthen the economy. His plans will weaken the economy.
There are reports coming back and include the fact that Donald Trump's plans for the economy would accelerate inflation and invite a recession by the middle of next year. My plans would strengthen the economy as a whole. You look at under what we've been doing. You look at the stock market is one of the strongest it's ever been. Wages have outpaced inflation. Inflation is going down to, I think it's now, the most recent numbers 2.4 percent. So but those, you know, nobody wants to hear a Econ 101 lecture, right?
But the reality of it, to your point, is that under Democratic rule, the economy gets strengthened and certainly when you look at my plan for when -- for my presidency, it will strengthen the economy and it will help people. And as per the conversation we've been having today, perhaps the -- the -- the -- the issue is that I'm going always think about it in the context of, how am I helping working people? How am I helping families? How am I helping people in the middle class? How am I helping people who have been without access having access? That's how I talk about it.
But my plan is about strengthening the economy and I know when you strengthen the economy that's how you do it. You do it by investing in the middle class. Let me tell you a contrast, Donald Trump thinks about the economy based on what he has done and will do, cutting taxes for billionaires in the biggest corporations. That's how he thinks about the economy. He thinks about the economy, not about the middle class people trying to, not just get by but get ahead, no. He wants to -- to stop Medicare from being able to negotiate drug prices down from the big pharmaceutical pharmacies.
CHARLAMAGNE THA GOD: We got a couple more questions. I want to get my man Erick Thomas (ph) in here because we only got like a few more minutes. But I want to say President Obama was out there last week waiving his finger at black men. When are Liz Cheney and Hillary Clinton going to waive their finger at white women? When are Bill Clinton and Joe Biden going to waive their finger at white men? Because 52 percent of white women voted for Trump in 2016, 55 percent voted for Trump in 2020. They all voted against their own interest. When are their finger wave -- waiving going to start at them?
HARRIS: Well, thank you for highlighting that. I do have the support of over 200 Republicans who worked for various administrations, including everyone going back to Ronald Reagan, to the Bush's, to John McCain, and Mitt Romney. And including Liz Cheney and I'm very proud to have her support. And I believe that they who -- many of them who may have voted for Trump before are supporting me because they know the stakes are so high in terms of our very democracy and rule of law. And --
CHARLAMAGNE THA GOD: So the finger wagging just starting today or tomorrow?
HARRIS: Well, I think, what -- what is happening is that we are all working on reminding people what is at stake and that is very important.
CHARLAMAGNE THA GOD: Erick (ph) real quick. We only got a few minutes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Only got a few minutes. Thank you Madame Vice President for having me. Thank you Charlamagne tha God. So as a employee of a mission driven non-profit bank, I appreciate the efforts in that bank I work with in west Detroit. But as chief story teller of the city of Detroit, I spend a lot of time dispelling information about the city of Detroit.
HARRIS: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And so I'm sure for those of us who are like me, if Donald Trump doesn't like Detroit so much, he's not welcomed back. Now --
HARRIS: But -- but -- OK, I'll out of my --
THOMAS: I mean I just --
HARRIS: I mean I don't know if everybody knows what you're talking about.
CHARLAMAGNE THA GOD: We only have a few minutes though.
HARRIS: OK. Go on, go on.
CHARLAMAGNE THA GOD: But you can go into it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I just wanted to say that we know that there's been a lot of conversation about growing the middle class but black men have been taken out of work for us for a myriad of systemic reasons from mass incorporations, to racial bias, fear mongering. We know that black men are not criminals, they are criminalized. And that has taken black men out of the home, has taken wealth out of the home.
[18:00:00]
And so, because, and especially in a city with such high poverty, I've heard a lot about middle class. But I would love to hear more about stair-stepping from poverty into middle class so they --
