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Trump Admin Files New Accusations Against Mahmoud Khalil; New Round of Talks Underway Between U.S. and Russia; NAACP Among Several Groups Suing to Stop Education Department Closure. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired March 24, 2025 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Happening now, deportation legal fight. In just hours, the D.C. Court of Appeals, we'll hear the Trump administration's argument to resume deportation flights under the 1798 Alien Enemies Act.

Welcome to our viewers here in the United States and around the world. Pamela Brown is off today. I'm Wolf Blitzer. You're in The Situation Room.

Breaking overnight, the Trump administration is filing new charges against the Columbia University grad student who helped lead pro- Palestinian protests on campus. Mahmoud Khalil is already in federal custody and fighting deportation by arguing he's protected by freedom of speech. Now, the U.S. Justice Department says he committed immigration fraud.

Also new today, an appeals court will hold an emergency hearing on the deportation flights to El Salvador. President Trump's borders are is voicing defiance of the judge who is blocking those flights over concerns that the deported migrants are denied due process.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What do you mean when you say, I don't care what judges think?

TOM HOMAN, BORDER CZAR: Well, I don't care what Judges think as far as this case. We're going to continue to arrest public safety threats and national security threats will continue to deport from the United States. I understand this case is in litigation through the Alien Enemies Act and will abide by the court order has litigated, but my quote was, despite what he thinks, we're going to keep targeting the worst of the worst.

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BLITZER: Joining me now in The Situation Room, CNN Senior Justice Correspondent Evan Perez. Evan, with these new charges filed against Mahmoud Khalil, what are you learning? EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Wolf, this is the first time that the U.S. government is explaining what more is behind the detention and the attempt to rescind Mahmoud Khalil's green card, his permanent residence status here in the United States.

One of the things that they're accusing him of, they say that when he applied for his green card, he did not disclose a number of things. One of them was that he worked and was a member of the United Nations Relief Works Agency, the agency that works with Palestinian refugees, and also that he worked at a Syria office for the British Embassy in Beirut.

And I'll read you just part of what the filing says from the Justice Department. It says, regardless of the allegations con concerning political speech, Khalil withheld membership in certain organizations. It is a black letter law that misrepresentations in this context are not protected speech. And thus Khalil's First Amendment allegations are a red herring, and there is an independent basis to justify removal sufficient to foreclose his constitutional claims here.

Of course, Wolf, as you know, this has been an issue as part of this case, the idea that because he led these protests at Columbia, the Trump administration is retaliating against him. Now, Khalil's attorney has this to say. He says, we're not at all surprised because it's a recognition of the initial charges were unsustainable, and they're going with a theory that they must think is more legally defensible. And it doesn't go to the core that this is an obvious taint of retaliation against Khalil for his First Amendment activities, Wolf.

BLITZER: Evan, a source is also telling CNN that the Trump administration could enlist the IRS, the Internal Revenue Service, to help locate migrants suspected of being here in the United States illegally. What more can you tell us?

PEREZ: Yes, Wolf. This is going to be a big, big change for the IRS, which had traditionally held very closely guarded the details of taxpayer information. And one of the things is, you know, for years, for decades, the United States has encouraged, including illegal immigrants, to file their taxes, to disclose essentially where they live, where they're employed. And what this agreement that they're working on right now.

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Kevin Liptak is our reporter on this. And one of the part of what's going on is IRS is working on an agreement with the Department of Homeland Security to turn over some of that information about these taxpayers, including illegal immigrants, people who use taxpayer I.D. numbers, not their Social Security numbers, to file their taxes. And the idea would be to make it easier to find these people for deportation, Wolf.

BLITZER: All right, Evan, thanks very much.

I want to bring in CNN Crime and Justice Correspondent Katelyn Polantz. Katelyn, I want to shift gears to today's hearing on the Trump administration's use of a wartime authority act to deport these migrants accused of being Venezuelan. Break the news for us.

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, there's going to be this court hearing this afternoon, and it's a shift in this case. We've been watching this case before the trial judge, James Boasberg, about these five Venezuelan nationals taken out of the country on flights to the Salvadoran prison. This afternoon, it's about much larger constitutional questions.

On the side of the Justice Department, it's about the president's authority to say, we've detained these guys, put them on the plane, get them out of the country. That's the argument that the Justice Department makes. They say it was a national security decision. They should be able to do this. The courts shouldn't be stepping in at all. And if the courts were to step in on something like this, what would stop the courts from stopping the president to say, launch a drone strike or use sensitive intelligence information?

That's the argument we will hear today at the D.C. Circuit of Court of Appeals from the Justice Department on the side of the lawyers for the Venezuelan nationals. It's about due process. Sure, these guys can be detained by immigration authorities, but they say this is a scary situation where these men were removed from the country without any review of whether the United States can do that to them, whether they even fit the category of people under the Alien Enemies Act who can be removed. And they warn the court that it's a very slippery slope to allow the president with no check to take people out of the country.

So, those immediate issues are what's going to be at court today, and there won't be as far as we can tell much discussion over the drama of did the administration violate a court order or thumb their nose at Judge Boasberg? That's a separate thing. This is about the big questions for immigration and the presidency.

BLITZER: It will be fascinating to hear the legal arguments during this court proceeding.

Katelyn Polantz, thanks very much. Evan Perez, thanks to you as well.

And happening right now, U.S. and Russian delegations are meeting in Saudi Arabia once again for a second time. They're trying to forge a peace deal for Ukraine. The U.S. met separately with Ukrainian negotiators earlier today.

And just as talks were about to get underway, Russia launched a wave of attacks across Ukraine, killing at least four people. This according to Ukrainian officials,

CNN's Chief National Security Correspondent Alex Marquardt is joining us right now. Are we expecting any real progress, Alex, to come out of this round of talks?

ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, these are critical. Make no doubt about it. And I think we have seen some progress. We are seeing progress here because what the officials who are taking part in these talks in Saudi Arabia from all three sides are what we call technical teams. So, these are the officials, the experts who are meant to iron out the specifics.

These are indirect proximity talks, so the U.S. is essentially shuttling between the two sides. Yesterday, as you noted, the U.S. sat down with Ukrainian officials. Today it's with Russian officials. We do expect, according to the Ukrainians, to sit down, the U.S. to sit down again with the Ukrainians, the U.S. going back and forth trying to iron out the differences. The Ukrainian defense minister has said that they have been productive so far.

The goal here is to not just nail down the specifics of the current energy infrastructure ceasefire, but to try to broaden it out, Wolf, to include the fighting in the Black Sea, to then try to get to a ceasefire deal that is across the entire frontline, which is something the U.S. had already proposed that the Ukrainians had agreed to, but the Russians essentially rejected it.

So, that is the goal to get to a full ceasefire. And that will then hopefully, Wolf, lay the groundwork to be able to talk about a permanent peace deal between Russia and Ukraine. Wolf?

BLITZER: As you know, Alex, the U.S. special envoy, Steve Witkoff made comments about Vladimir Putin saying there are two sides to the conflict with Ukraine. He's willing to take Putin at his word, that's what he says, and that things aren't black and white between Russia and Ukraine. Are those comments raising serious concerns for Ukraine?

MARQUARDT: And he said that he's not a bad guy, that he believes what he says, that he is a great president, all comments, Wolf, that are going to significantly worry the Ukrainians.

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So, Witkoff said that the main sticking point, the critical point here, are the territorial concessions. He said that he doesn't believe that Russia wants to take over all of Ukraine, but that they do want these territories in the eastern and southern part of the country. And Witkoff indicated that Ukraine should give them up. Take a listen

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STEVE WITKOFF, U.S. SPECIAL ENVOY TO THE MIDDLE EAST: well. First of all, I think the largest issue in that conflict are these so-called four regions, Donbas, Crimea, you know, Luhansk there's two others. They're Russian-speaking.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

WITKOFF: There have been referendums where the overwhelming majority of the people have indicated that they want to be under Russian rule.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MARQUARDT: Wolf putting aside the fact that Witkoff can't appear to name all of those provinces, yes, it's true they speak Russian there, but they speak Russian all across the country. But this is a Kremlin talking point and those referenda that took place were widely considered by most western countries to have been sham elections taking place during a time of occupation under duress by Russian forces in the eastern part of Ukraine. Wolf?

BLITZER: All right. Alex Marquardt reporting for us, Alex, thanks very much.

I want to get to some new reporting right now, a new CNN reporting. U.S. military officials are now scrambling to develop a so-called Golden Dome defense system. Sources are telling CNN that no expense will be spared to fulfill one of President Trump's priorities.

With me right now here in The Situation Room is CNN National Security Reporter Zachary Cohen. Zach, what more are you learning about this plan and whether it's even realistic?

ZACHARY COHEN, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY REPORTER: Yes, Wolf. Pentagon officials have until Friday to come up with their plan of how they're going to turn Donald Trump's vision for a golden dome into a reality.

And, look, this is something that, despite the similar name, it would be very different than the Iron Dome, which protects Israel, which is about the size of New Jersey. The United States, of course, much larger, would require a space-based missile defense system. That's when Donald Trump is directing the Pentagon to come up with, and they have, again, until the end of the week to present their plan for how they're going to make it feasible.

Now, look, broadly speaking, this system would be made up of a bunch of satellites and network of satellites that communicate with one another as well as space-based interceptors that would, in theory, intercept a missile minutes after it was launched.

Now, realistically, I'm told that the reality is right now that this is just an idea despite the name, the name aside, and that talks right now are purely conceptual. But still, Donald Trump has made very clear that this is a top priority for the Pentagon under his new administration. And it comes at a time when he is also telling the Pentagon to slash other budgets, making obviously clear that this is an investment and this is something that could cost billions of dollars, but it's worth the money.

BLITZER: I know that Trump is determined to try to do it, just so we'll see what happens in that front.

Zachary Cohen, thank you very, very much.

Meanwhile, the U.S. Defense Department is upping the ante after a number of recent leaks. Officials now plan to use polygraphs on employees over the Defense Department as part of their probe.

Let's go live right now to CNN National Security Correspondent Natasha Bertrand. She's joining us from the Pentagon. What more are you learning, Natasha? NATASHA BERTRAND, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, the Defense Department was absolutely furious after this New York Times story came out last week saying that Elon Musk was going to be receiving a highly classified briefing on war plans for China here at the Pentagon, and they vehemently denied that that was the case.

But just hours after that happened, we saw the DOD put out this memo saying that they're going to be conducting leak investigations and they're going to be using polygraph tests to do so. According to a memo from the DOD's chief of staff, quote, the use of polygraphs in the execution of this investigation will be in accordance with applicable law and policy. And they said that anyone identified as part of this leak investigation is going to be referred for criminal prosecution.

Now, this comes as entities across the federal government are beginning to launch these kinds of leak investigations, trying to determine who inside different agencies are speaking to the press. DHS, of course, has started using polygraph tests to determine whether anyone is leaking to the media as well as DOJ, which is, you know, very interesting statements over the weekend saying that it would be conducting a leak probe into stories about Tren de Aragua that are inaccurate, but nevertheless classified, obviously raising questions here about how you can conduct a leak investigation into something that these entities are saying is also inaccurate. Wolf?

BLITZER: All right. Natasha, thanks very much, Natasha Bertrand over at the Pentagon.

There's more breaking news we're following in The Situation Room. We're learning that President Trump is about to hold a major cabinet meeting, and that is expected in the next hour.

I want to go live to our White House Reporter Alayna Treene. Alayna, what are you learning?

ALAYNA TREENE, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Well, Wolf, I'm told by two Trump administration officials that the president is going to convene his cabinet secretaries here at the White House at 11:00 A.M.

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And like we have seen in the past with these other cabinet meetings, Elon Musk is expected to attend. Now, we had heard the White House previously say that Musk's presence at these different meetings, which at first raised some eyebrows given, of course, he is not a cabinet secretary, he's not even a full-time employee, he's a special government employee, as the White House refers to it, that he would be attending these meetings more frequently to check in with the different secretaries about how their efforts to really carry out DOGE's mission, the Department of Government Efficiency, of slashing staff and funding for a lot of these different agencies to coordinate with him during these meetings. We're going to see that take place today at 11:00 A.M.

Now, of course, there is a lot going on that the Trump administration is facing, A key question is, you know, what are those tariffs on April 2nd that the president has promised? What will those look like? We also know in Saudi Arabia talks are ongoing with Russia and Ukraine on trying to find a peace deal. All of that I'm told likely to come up during this meeting.

But as for a Musk's part in it, he's going to be checking in with these different secretaries about how their agencies are doing with the overall mission of government efficiency. Wolf?

BLITZER: Do we know, Alayna, if the White House is going to allow reporters and camera crews inside to cover that cabinet meeting?

TREENE: So, they have not yet publicly announced this cabinet meeting, Wolf. We were told this by two Trump administration officials. I wouldn't be surprised if they ended it up, you know, opening this up for a select group of reporters to try and ask some questions, like we saw with that first cabinet meeting, where the president took questions for almost an hour. But that's still unclear. We have to wait for the official announcement from the White House before. I think we'll learn more about whether or not media will have access to it.

BLITZER: All right. Alayna Treene reporting for us, we'll stay in very close touch with you. Thank you very much.

Still ahead, a new lawsuit is looking to put a stop to the dismantling of the Department of Education. I'll speak to an attorney for the NAACP about the group's arguments.

Stay with us. You're in The Situation Room.

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BLITZER: New this morning, the NAACP and other advocacy groups are now suing the Trump administration to stop the dismantling of the Department of Education. It comes on the same day that newly fired agency employees are being given only about 30 minutes to collect all their belongings and leave the federal buildings.

Let's bring in Senior Associate General Counsel for the NAACP Anthony P. Ashton. Anthony, thanks very much for joining us.

What's the chief argument of this new lawsuit?

ANTHONY ASHTON, SENIOR ASSOCIATE GENERAL COUNSEL, NAACP: The basic argument is that Congress created the Department of Education. Only Congress has the authority to dismantle it, not the president, not the secretary of education. There is a separation of power that takes place in this country, and that is not being honored right now with the way in which this entire debacle is being handled.

BLITZER: You make it a point in point, only the an act of Congress can completely shut down the Department of Education, but President Trump's executive order has kick-started the process. How soon could this lawsuit bring that process to a halt? He's beginning the process of dismantling, not completing it.

ASHTON: Well, the plan is to file the lawsuit today with the goal of getting an injunction in place that can stop the inevitable or stop what the administration hopes will be the inevitable disclosure of the Department of Education.

BLITZER: The education secretary, Linda McMahon, spoke to CNN over the weekend. She appeared to sidestep a direct question about whether it's a federal responsibility to ensure that every child has access to a good education. Listen and watch this.

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LINDA MCMAHON, EDUCATION SECRETARY: I think that was the purpose of public education when we first began it in our country, and I think that the federal government, state governments, we owe it to all of our children. After all, that's the next generation of our engineers, our scientists, our quantum mathematicians, but also our welders, our plumbers, our HVACs, our welders, all of that.

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BLITZER: She later argued that state and local governments could better oversee their students' education than a federal department housed here in Washington. How do you respond to that?

ASHTON: When things were left up to the states, we had school segregation. When things were left up to the states, we have students of color being disciplined in much higher rates and being disciplined much harsher than their white counterparts.

The federal government has a direct responsibility that has been charged with by Congress to ensure that children with special education needs, children who have disabilities, students who live in poor urban areas, student who live in rural areas, that they are receiving the proper education that they should, that they receive a free and appropriate public education. That is literally the statute that the federal government has to abide by.

The federal government also makes sure that, through the Office of Civil Rights, it's supposed to make sure that all children receive education regardless of their color, regardless of their nationality.

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And those are things that the federal government is charged with, and we want that to continue.

BLITZER: As you know, Anthony, President Trump argues that the Federal Department of Education isn't doing the country any good, saying it's failed students. What's the NAACP's biggest concern if the agency does in fact shut down completely?

ASHTON: First of all, I'd say that the amount of black and brown high school graduates, or the percentage of black and brown students who graduate from high school jumped dramatically or has gone up by, I believe, at least 30 percent since the Department of Education was created. So, the idea that they are not doing well in that regard simply is not true.

Our concern is that without the federal oversight to make sure that schools are complying with civil rights laws, to make sure that schools are complying with laws that are made for students with physical disabilities or who have learning differences, without that happening at the federal level, there is no guarantee that will happen at the state level.

Some states do not even have the infrastructure to do that. They do not have, for example, an Office of Civil Rights. And recently, the administration has closed, I believe, about a dozen regional Offices of Civil Rights leaving, for example, families who have filed complaints about discrimination with no place to turn in their state and unsure whether the federal government will do anything that's, as it stands right now, it would be impossible for them to have relief if in fact there is no Department of Education.

BLITZER: The NAACP's senior associate general counsel, Anthony Ashton, thanks so much for joining us.

ASHTON: Thank you very much for having me.

And there's breaking news coming into CNN right now. Federal Judge James Boasberg is declining to wipe away his orders that temporarily prevents President Trump from using the 1798 Alien Enemies Act to deport migrants. In just hours, the D.C. Court of Appeals will hold a major hearing on this case. We'll have coverage.

Up next, no end in sight, the death toll in Gaza passes another milestone with little hope for any ceasefire between Israel and Hamas.

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