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Stocks Plunge Again As China Slaps U.S. With 34 Percent Tariffs; Rep. Carlos Gimenez (R-FL), Is Interviewed About Trump Firing Director And Deputy Dir. Of Natl. Security Agency. Aired 11-11:30a ET

Aired April 04, 2025 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:00:00]

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: -- from the United States. Welcome to our viewers here in the United States and around the world. Pamela Brown is off today. I'm Wolf Blitzer. You're in the Situation Room.

We begin this hour with breaking news. This morning, a jobs report that actually surpassed expectations and an unemployment rate that's changed just very, very slightly. Meanwhile, stocks are seeing a massive decline for a second day as the shockwaves from President Trump's sweeping tariffs on all U.S. imports reverberate across the globe. The Dow is down now more than 1,400 points after dropping almost 1,700 just yesterday.

But China is hitting back with tariffs, big-time tariffs, of its own. CNN's Chief National Affairs Correspondent Jeff Zeleny is in West Palm Beach, Florida. That's where the President arrived earlier this morning. He's at his golf course, getting ready for some more golf. Jeff, how is the White House responding to China's retaliatory tariffs?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, certainly a remarkable split-screen moment. About 15 minutes after the U.S. financial markets opened, the President arrived at his golf and country club here in West Palm Beach, Florida.

He was on the phone, as well as -- and as well as wearing a Make America Great Again hat, waving to onlookers as the markets were falling for a second straight day. Now, we are in a trade war. There is no doubt about it, with China doing the retaliatory tariffs just a couple days after the President announced his tariff policies, the first of which are set to go into effect at midnight tonight.

The President is not scheduled to speak today, does not have any events on his public schedule. That could change, of course. But he is on the golf course. He's taking a long weekend here in Florida, as the financial markets both here in the United States and around the world, indeed, are reacting to his extraordinary policies that really has upended the global economy.

But the President, before arriving at the golf course, sent a message that he was not about to negotiate. That has been one of the central questions hanging over all of this. Will he change his mind? Is he going to find some sort of an off-ramp, if you will?

But if you look at this message on Truth Social that he posted, it indicates he's not. I'll read a part of it. He said, to the many investors coming into the United States and investing massive amounts of money, my policies will never change. This is a great time to get rich, richer than ever before.

But, Wolf, that belies and really flies in the face of what investors are seeing, but also ordinary American consumers are on the verge of seeing the prices of many goods in their own homes go up. So there's no doubt, politically speaking, the White House is watching this very carefully.

But from a policy standpoint, we are not seeing any indications of changing at all. This is the biggest gamble of his presidency, there's no doubt about it. The idea is to, it's a key piece of this America First agenda, if you will, to bring American manufacturing home. But the question is, what are the consequences of all of this, Wolf?

BLITZER: All right, Jeff Zeleny in West Palm Beach, covering the President for us. Thank you very much.

This morning's jobs report was stronger than expected, with another month of very solid gains. The U.S. economy added 228,000 jobs in March, that according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics. Unemployment was only slightly up from February at 4.2 percent. I want to discuss what's going on with the former Labor Secretary, Robert Reich.

He served during the Clinton administration. Mr. Secretary, thanks so much for joining us. China, as you know, is retaliating with 34 percent additional tariffs on all U.S. imports coming into China. How will Americans feel that impact?

ROBERT REICH, AUTHOR, "THE SYSTEM: WHO RIGGED IT, HOW WE FIX IT": Wolf, Americans are going to feel the impact in a variety of ways. It doesn't show up in the employment report, obviously, because the employment report is for March. It is not for April.

And April is the big month in terms of what happens to trade and prices and jobs and the future of the American economy. Americans are going to be paying much, much more because a lot of people don't realize how much of what we buy comes from China. I'm not talking about agricultural commodities. I'm talking about goods and manufactured items and even assembly items.

These are American companies doing things in China, also doing things in Southeast Asia, assembling, making things, sending them back to the United States. It's going to be a crude and rude shock for most Americans.

BLITZER: Because so many products that we all buy here in the United States, whether shoes or sneakers or clothes, all sorts of things are imported from China and other countries where they're made cheaper than here in the United States. And the prices now on all those kinds of products for everyday Americans is going to go up. Is that right?

[11:05:05]

REICH: Yes. And this is in one way of looking at this is, this is the largest peacetime increase in taxes we have ever seen in the history of the United States. And I say that because a tariff is a tax and people are going to be paying more. A lot of importers would like to maybe avoid shoving that additional cost on to people. But that's what's going to happen because, I mean, you can't create money out of nowhere.

These tariffs are going to be costly and ultimately American consumers are going to pay. And as countries like China retaliate against American exporters, it's going to be even more complicated and difficult because a lot of companies will say to themselves, well, why hire more people if we don't have a market, if we don't have a market in -- in China, if Europe is going to retaliate, if -- if we have the possibility, even the possibility of retaliation around the world, many companies in the United States are going to say, well, there's no point in -- in expanding capacity, hiring. What we're going to do is probably lay people off. And that's -- that's what worries me most because that we're on the road to both inflation and recession.

BLITZER: Are you surprised that you speak as a former labor secretary? Are you surprised by such an upbeat jobs report from March that was released this morning? And why do you think this doesn't appear to have helped the stock market, which is clearly not feeling it, at least so far?

REICH: Well, Wolf, because the jobs report is looking backward. It's looking at what happened in March. The markets, particularly the stock market, is looking forward. It's looking at what is likely to be in the future. And the stock market and bond markets are all saying you better hide because things are going to get much, much, much worse.

BLITZER: The White House insists that all of this economic uncertainty is simply part of the temporary, their -- their suggestion, temporary cost to revive manufacturing jobs here in the United States. Does that argument hold up when U.S. goods are now burdened with a massive tariff from such a critical trade -- trade ally like China, which at least until now used to buy a lot of American products, especially agricultural products?

REICH: Well, look at the agricultural sector in the United States for a moment. I mean, the farmers were burdened in a very, very major way in the first Trump term. They're going to be burdened much more in agriculture. We're going to see the entire Midwest in -- in very dire straits, I'm afraid, because there's nobody. China is one of the major importers.

But beyond that, I -- I worry that we're going to see the rest of the world. I mean, Europe and China, the -- the next obvious move for the European Union and China is to get together and to create a trade zone, in effect, that excludes the United States. So you have Fortress America existing in one sphere and the rest of the world existing in another sphere.

Wolf, let me just say this. For 80 years, 80 years, the United States has profited off of a world trade system. Not perfect. I mean, I am the first to admit many things went wrong. A lot of things could be and should have been changed and will be, you know, if we'd stayed on that same track, could have been changed.

But right now, what has happened is the entire world trade system that offered us peace and prosperity for 80 years has been basically thrown out. We are now in a trade war with much of the rest of the world. And that means, I mean, nobody wins in wars. Nobody wins in a trade war. And my great worry is that we're going to see everybody lose.

And ultimately, tensions mount in -- in all quarters of this world, because everybody, obviously, it comes down to jobs. It comes down to wages. Every household in the world is going to be affected more or less directly or indirectly by this.

BLITZER: Yes, it's going to cost Americans a lot more for everyday products that they need to buy. If manufacturing were to return, Mr. Secretary, to previous levels, most economists suggest that would take years. Do you believe companies are ready to make that commitment now?

REICH: No, they're not. And -- and Wolf, let me -- let me just point out, one of the reasons that manufacturing jobs were so good in the 1950s, 1960s, 70s, is that most of them were unionized jobs. The unions actually contributed to the high wages that those manufacturing jobs provided.

[11:10:18]

Now, unions, they used to be, you know, 35 percent of our workforce in the 60s, 1960s, 70s, was unionized. Today, the unionized portion of the workforce is down to 6 percent. You don't have that bargaining leverage among workers today.

All you have in these factories, more and more technology, more and more, and we're going to see more and more artificial intelligence. And so if anybody thinks that there's going to be a huge number of manufacturing jobs created in the United States, they're not looking at technology.

BLITZER: Robert Reich, the former Labor Secretary during the Bill Clinton administration. That's where I got to know you, Mr. Secretary. I must say, we still appreciate very much so all of your analysis. Thanks so much for joining us.

REICH: Thank you, Wolf.

BLITZER: Still ahead, a former auto industry CEO tells CNN that every single vehicle here in the United States will be more expensive under Trump's new tariffs. A Ford executive will join me live in just a few moments.

Plus, the President fires two top officials over at the U.S. National Security Agency, the NSA. But sources tell CNN it came after he met with a far-right conspiracy theorist. We'll update you on that. Stay with us. You're in The Situation Room.

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[11:16:18]

BLITZER: New this morning, growing concern among current and former defense officials over President Trump's purge of the National Security Agency and the National Security Council. Sources now telling CNN the firings took place on the advice of Laura Loomer, a right-wing conspiracy theorist who met with President Trump on Wednesday.

Let's get some analysis from CNN national security analyst, Beth Sanner. She served as the Deputy Director of National Intelligence during the first Trump administration. Beth, thanks so much for joining us. How do you think U.S. adversaries are reading these firings right now?

BETH SANNER, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, Wolf, I always think about what how I would feel in the U.S. intelligence community when something similar happened in an adversary's intelligence community. And it was always a great day for U.S. intelligence when our adversaries were in chaos.

And we've seen this in Iran, in Russia. And the same thing now is happening here. Our adversaries will look at the United States and say, this is a great day because the NSA is going to be on its back heels. It is going to be every person who works there will be wondering what's going to happen next. They will be so distracted. And not just at NSA, at every part of the intelligence community in the United States. This makes us weaker. It doesn't protect our national security.

BLITZER: And not just the NSA, the National Security Agency, but the National Security Council, the CIA, the Office of the Director of National Intelligence. People are very worried. I've spoken to some of them. These firings come as National Security Advisor at the White House, Mike Waltz, is facing serious scrutiny for his role in that so- called Signal Gate scandal. What -- what -- what do these moves say about his standing in the White House right now?

SANNER: I think that the -- when you heard the story and you all have told the story about this Laura Loomer going into the Oval Office, a kind of conspiracy theory person who lives in the internet world, and she goes in and Waltz is there but cannot defend the people whom he knows, whom he has vetted for these positions against someone who has no idea about national security, no idea about what's at stake.

And, you know, I -- I think it really shows that he is quite weak in -- in this, Wolf. And I just want to get back to this idea of NSA, if you will allow me a minute. NSA is the most powerful, the most powerful part of our intelligence community and maybe even, you know, of the U.S. government. And the power of that and who runs it and what they are allowed to do and not allowed to do can really affect any American's life. It's very, very serious.

BLITZER: Because they fired General Timothy Haugh and his deputy, the head of the National Security Agency. That's a big time development. And presumably if that was simply based on what Laura Loomer is recommending to the President, what does that say to you?

SANNER: It says that people are not thinking about national security and what we want our government to be doing in terms of our responsibilities and instead are putting some kind of vague loyalty tests ahead of professional competence.

And I don't even understand these charges that Laura Loomer has put forward because General Haugh, is actually how you pronounce it, General Haugh has no background in terms of being close to General Milley. He just happened to be at a place in time when General Milley -- Milley was the person who had to put names forward. But he was someone who had spent his entire career at NSA and cybercom, and was the most qualified person.

[11:20:32]

Wendy Noble has no connection to General Clapper, former head of the -- former director of National Intelligence. These things are just not even true. And so what vetting has gone into the ideas behind why they were fired? She's claiming that they weren't vetted for loyalty.

Well, who's vetting her claims that they're disloyal instead of actually being loyal to the American people and being competent in carrying out their very, very critical jobs? That's my question.

BLITZER: And as a former Pentagon correspondent myself, I can't remember a time when a three or four star general who's moved up the chain of command, a three or four star general has been fired under these kinds of circumstances. Beth Sanner, thanks so much for joining us. We always appreciate it.

Up next --

SANNER: Thank you Wolf.

BLITZER: -- an update on the immigration case of the Maryland father who was mistakenly deported because of a, quote, administrative error. Why the White House is arguing he can't come back home. We'll have details, a live report that's coming up next.

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[11:26:16]

BLITZER: Now we're getting more details right now on the major shakeup in the U.S. intelligence community. President Trump firing the top two officials over at the NSA, the National Security Agency, and it comes on the heels of his purge over at the National Security Council at the White House. Sources now telling CNN that far-right activist Laura Loomer met with the president earlier this week and urged him to make the firing moves.

Joining us now is Republican Congressman Carlos Gimenez of Florida. Congressman, thanks so much for joining us. I know you sit on the House Homeland Security Committee and the House Armed Services Committee. Do you have any concerns about the President firing key national security officials, top intelligence officials, based on the advice of someone who claimed that 9/11, 9/11, the al-Qaeda terrorist attack, was an inside U.S. job?

REP. CARLOS GIMENEZ (R-FL): Well, if that was actually the reason, yes, I would. But I'm not sure that that was the reason just because somebody went in. The President listens to a whole bunch of people telling him and advising him on what to do. And at the end of the day, it's the president of the United States, Donald J. Trump, decides what he wants to do and what he thinks is right for the country.

And so, yes, somebody met with him and -- and -- and asked that of him. Again, it's up to the President of the United States to make -- to make that decision. And he has a right to choose the personnel that he feels comfortable with.

BLITZER: So he's suggesting it wasn't just Laura Loomer who was recommending that he fire these three and four-star generals?

GIMENEZ: Yes, I'm suggesting that, yes, there was more -- more than Laura Loomer that may have done that. And Laura Loomer did it. That's great. I talk to him every once in a while. I say, I think maybe you ought to do this. Maybe you ought to do that. It doesn't mean that he follows my advice. He -- he -- as President of the United States, you need to take the advice and listen to a whole range of people.

But at the end, you've got to make up your own mind. And believe me, Donald J. Trump make -- makes up his own mind for what he thinks is going to be in the best for -- in -- in the best interest of the United States of America.

BLITZER: As you probably have heard, some current and former defense officials are telling CNN there's a growing culture of fear right now inside the ranks of the Defense Department, the Pentagon, the U.S. intelligence community. Many are worried -- many are -- are worried that officers, other officers, could be fired at any moment for perceived disloyal -- disloyalty to President Trump. Do you believe that's harmful in the long run to national security?

GIMENEZ: No, look, I believe that everybody, you know, they're professionals, but also I believe it's up to the President and secretary of defense in the case of the DoD to -- to advance and -- and then fire those that they don't think are -- are in the best interest of the United States.

Look, we're going to have differences of opinions with the personnel decisions of the Biden administration. That just happens with every single administration. You want to make sure that the people that are in those positions actually have basically kind of your -- your view of the world, because they're the ones that are going to have to go ahead and put into action your policy decisions.

And if you have people that know, I really don't agree with that, well, then they may not, you know, institute those policy decisions the way you want them to be instituted. So, yeah, you're going to have to, you know, make do some shakeups, and that's just a natural course of business in any administration. BLITZER: I want to turn, while I have you, Congressman, to President Trump's trade war that's ongoing right now. As you know, markets around the world are plunging. The stock market is going down. Prices for just about everything in the U.S. potentially are expected to rise sometimes big time. And there are growing warnings of a potential global recession, not only recession here in the U.S. but a global recession. Given all this, should President Trump need to pull back right now on these tariffs, these new tariffs that he's imposed?

[11:30:01]

GIMENEZ: No, I don't think so. Look, for -- for years, all these countries have been imposing tariffs on us and, you know, the world didn't end. All right, as a matter --