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Palestinian Student Detained Just Before Citizenship Interview; Laying Out the Case of Kilmar Abrego Garcia; Harvard Rejects White House's Policy Change Demands. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired April 15, 2025 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:00:00]

PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Happening now, Columbia University student detained, the senior about to become a U.S. citizen, now detained but not charged by immigration officials. New CNN reporting straight ahead.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: And Harvard hits back the Ivy League University refusing to bow to the Trump administration's demands, the billions of dollars in funding at stake.

Welcome to our viewers here in the United States and around the world. I'm Wolf Blitzer with Pamela Brown, and you're in The Situation Room.

We begin this hour with the Trump administration testing the power of the presidency over the issue of immigration. A Palestinian student arrives for a final U.S. citizenship interview and is paraded out in handcuffs. His attorney says he's a legal U.S. resident and is being tapped for his pro-Palestinian activism over at Columbia University.

Also this afternoon, a court hearing is scheduled for this Maryland father who was mistakenly deported and now sits in a notorious Central American prison. And both the White House and El Salvador's president are defying orders to return him to the United States.

We're covering all of the angles. CNN White House Reporter Alayna Treene previews the hearing and the stakes, and Correspondent Gloria Pazmino begins with the arrest of the Columbia University student.

Gloria, has the student been charged with anything?

GLORIA PAZMINO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: No Wolf. He has not been charged with any crimes so far. But the Trump administration appears to be using the same portion of the U.S. immigration law they've used to target other student activists. Now, Mahdawi has been a permanent U.S. resident for ten years, but the administration is moving to cancel his green card, citing the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1965. That gives the secretary of state wide powers to the poor people if they are deemed to be a foreign policy threat.

Now, we do not know what the threat is in this case, but we do know that Mahdawi is a prominent pro-Palestinian activist who organized protests on the campus of Columbia University last year. Here he is speaking to 60 Minutes about the pro-Palestinian cause and anti- Semitism. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MOHSEN MAHDAWI, COLUMBIA STUDENT ACTIVIST: To be anti-Semitic is unjust, is unjust. And the fight for the freedom of Palestine and the fight against anti-Semitism go hand in hand because injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PAZMINO: Now, Wolf, Mahdawi, as you said, was detained when he showed up to that immigration appointment. He thought it was going to be a citizenship interview. Instead he was taken into custody. A judge in Vermont has issued a temporary restraining order to make sure that he is not deported or removed from that Vermont district. Wolf?

BLITZER: All right. Gloria Pazmino, thank you very, very much. Pamela?

BROWN: All right, Wolf. Let's turn now to the case of Kilmar Abrego Garcia and an upcoming hearing about it today. Multiple administration officials have said in public statements and in court filings that he was mistakenly deported to El Salvador through an administrative error, an admission that has been cited by the Supreme Court. But now the administration is trying to deny it was a mistake and is doubling down on its defiance of court rulings.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEPHEN MILLER, WHITE HOUSE DEPUTY CHIEF OF STAFF: He was not mistakenly sent to El Salvador.

A DOJ lawyer, who has since been relieved of duty, a saboteur, a Democrat, put into a filing incorrectly that this was a mistaken removal. It was not. This was the right person sent to the right place.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[10:05:00]

BROWN: Now, I want to add some context that it wasn't just that a DOJ attorney, also a top ICE official said in a sworn declaration under penalty of perjury that it was an error.

So, how did we get here? Abrego Garcia entered the U.S. illegally around 2011 and has lived here nearly half his life. He has married to a US citizen and is raising three children. The Trump administration says he's a member of the MS-13 gang, which is designated a terrorist organization. But has provided no public evidence that he's a member of that gang and Abrego Garcia has denied it. El Salvador says it won't return a terrorist, and the White House says it won't demand it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAM BONDI, ATTORNEY GENERAL: He had been illegally in our country, and in 2019, two courts, an immigration court and an appellate immigration court ruled that he was a member of MS-13 and he was illegally in our country. Right now, it was a paperwork, it was additional paperwork had needed to be done. That's up to El Salvador if they want to return him. That's not up to us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Abrego Garcia was arrested in 2019 based on what an unnamed informant told authorities and a Chicago Bulls hat that he was wearing, you see right here, Chicago Bulls gear has been linked to MS- 13 in some cases.

But an immigration judge later voiced skepticism and said Abrego Garcia could be deported, but notably not to El Salvador. The judge found that a gang there had threatened to kill him because of his family's business.

Let's go live now to CNN's Alayna Treene at the White House. Alayna, the White House has refused to bring him back to the U.S. So, what are the stakes in today's hearing?

ALAYNA TREENE, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: I mean, Pamela, this has really become one of the most significant showdowns between the judiciary and the White House. Now, there is going to be a hearing today at 4:00 P.M. where the initial judge, in this case, a Maryland judge, is going to need to decide next steps.

But what is clear, Pamela, is that the White House had really been building to this line of defense for some time now, essentially arguing that, one, that Maryland judge -- a federal judge, I should say, was overstepping the bounds of her power, and also in some ways that the Supreme Court, which ruled in a 9-0 ruling that the Trump administration must facilitate Abrego Garcia's return to the United States.

What we are now hearing, though, from the president himself directly but also top officials is one that they have no intention of trying to bring Abrego Garcia back to the U.S., but also that they believe that the courts should not have a say in the Trump administrations and directly President Donald Trump's foreign policy moves.

Take a listen to how Attorney General Pam Bondi put it yesterday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BONDI: These district judges do not have the right to interfere with the executive branch's ability to conduct foreign affairs, meaning President Trump's ability to do business with foreign nations and they can't do that. What they also said is just facilitate, meaning if he wanted a plane flight, we could give him a plane flight, but we cannot effectuate it, meaning making it happen, which is what the district court had originally ruled. It was a win.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TREENE: So, as you could hear there, Pamela, they're framing that Supreme Court ruling as a win. But what isn't clear is exactly what happens from here and whether or not the courts are going to be satisfied with the answer that this administration is providing for refusing to return him to the United States.

BROWN: All right. Alayna Treene, thank you so much. Wolf?

BLITZER: And this morning Harvard University standoff with the Trump administration is reaching a boiling point. The Trump administration announcing a freeze of more than $2 billion in promised U.S. government funding after the nation's oldest university flatly rejected its policy change demands.

Let's go live right now to CNN Correspondent Kara Scannell, who's monitoring all of this for us. Kara, where do things stand following this announcement?

KARA SCANNELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, as you said, the federal task force to combat anti-Semitism has frozen $2.2 billion in federal grants and another $60 million in contracts to Harvard University. It is not clear exactly what programs have been affected by this. The university does get a tremendous amount of funding from the National Institutes for Health for biomedical research, but we are inquiring to see what programs are affected.

This follows Harvard's decision that they were not going to go along with the demands of the task force. And some of the things that the task force had asked her to implement would included things such as closing their DEI program, reducing the power of students and faculty members over student affairs and reporting foreign students who commit conduct violations to federal authorities, including the State Department and Department of Homeland Security, as well as reforming programs with egregious records, that's in their quotes of anti- Semitism or other bias.

Now, Harvard's professor wrote a letter to the community and their attorneys wrote a letter to the task force saying that they were not going to go along with this. But the Harvard professor said -- the Harvard president said was, the university will not surrender its independence or relinquish its constitutional rights.

[10:10:03]

No government, regardless of which party is in power, should dictate what private universities can teach, whom they can admit and hire, and which areas of study and inquiry they can pursue.

So, where things go from here, though, will remain to be seen. Is there some further negotiations behind the scene or does Harvard take more aggressive steps to try to head off additional cuts to funding?

BLITZER: Very important case, indeed. Kara Scannell, thank you very much. Pamela?

BROWN: Some of this funding to these university goes to critical research and to chronic diseases and so forth.

BLITZER: Yes. They can save lives without research.

BROWN: Without federal funding, exactly.

As uncertainty over the economy swirls amid the president's escalating trade war, one thing appears all but certain, Jerome Powell will not be returning as Federal Reserve chair when his term expires next year. And now, Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent is shedding some light on the search for his replacement.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When are you going to start to think about having discussions with the president about who should lead the Fed?

SCOTT BESSENT, TREASURY SECRETARY: Well, we think about it all the time. I think you're -- when are we going to start interviewing candidates? And that'll be sometime in the fall.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: All right. Let's go live to CNN Business and Politics Correspondent Vanessa Yurkevich in New York. So, Vanessa, Trump picked Powell in his first term and then repeatedly sparred with him. So, what do you think he's looking for this time around?

VANESSA YURKEVICH, CNN BUSINESS AND POLITICS CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Well, the search is clearly underway as Jerome Powell, the chair of the Fed, has more than a year left on his term. This is someone, as you said, that President Trump appointed during his first term, Biden reappointed him to another set of four years, especially because the Fed and Jerome Powell was really in this fight against very high inflation coming off of COVID.

But the president, President Trump, throughout the campaign trail and just recently has really shared openly his likes, but mainly his dislikes with Jerome Powell. He said just recently in a post on Truth Social that this would be the perfect time for Fed Chairman Jerome Powell to cut interest rates, also saying that he's always late, but he could now change his mind and quickly, essentially signaling that he wants the Fed to cut rates, which would help borrowing costs for everyday Americans, and that is because the Fed is still in the fight to tame inflation.

But at the same time looming in the background, as you know, Pamela is this trade war, and the Fed now has this delicate dance of trying to keep prices low, trying to make full employment a big part of the U.S. economy, but the trade war is chipping away at that.

So, this next year is going to be very critical for Jerome Powell and critical for the Fed. It'll be interesting to see, Pamela, who the president thinks is a better fit for the job as this trade war is certainly going to go on for at least it's being messaged for the next couple years. Pamela?

BROWN: We'll be watching it all.

Vanessa Yurkevich, thank you so much. Wolf?

BLITZER: And new this morning, IRS employees could soon learn whether they'll still have a job after tax season. Sources now telling CNN that the agency will begin announcing who will be laid off and who will be spared by the end of this week, which just so happens to be the busiest time of the year for IRS workers. Today is the deadline for filing your 2024 tax return.

CNN's Rene Marsh is here in the situation room watching all of this unfold. This is a big issue.

RENE MARSH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, and the timing of it certainly adding to the upheaval at the IRS. But this follows a pattern that we've seen right ahead of plans to dismantle the Department of Education. That came right before a key deadline for college admissions and financial aid, so, again, something that we've seen as far as questionable timing.

But back to the IRS, sources are telling us that the agency will announce these cuts starting at the end of the week. The agency is looking to cut as much as potentially 20 percent. That could be some 20,000 jobs. But, again, this is going to be a rolling process of each week. We're hearing from sources we're going to hear about more and more layoffs.

And, of course, Wolf, this is coming as the agency is in turmoil. As you know, sensitive taxpayer information, the data that it houses, that is on track to be used to locate undocumented immigrants so that they can be deported. Besides these looming layoffs, some of the most senior career officials have either left, they're either been fired or quit and protest, or they're taking the buyouts that the administration is offering. Keeping in mind, this is all happening at what is a critical time and mission for the IRS and, of course, they still don't have their permanent leader. Former a Republican Congressman Billy Long still hasn't had his Senate confirmation hearing.

BLITZER: April 15th, today, the deadline to file the 2024 tax returns unless you have an extension, and most people don't have extensions, so they got to file by the end of today. We'll see what happens.

Rene Marsh, thank you very, very much. Pamela?

BROWN: The dreaded tax day, right, Wolf?

[10:15:00]

All right, happening now, Pennsylvania authorities are investigating whether anti-Semitism motivated a man to set fire to Governor Josh Shapiro's home over the weekend. Cody Balmer was arraigned yesterday on multiple charges including attempted homicide and terrorism. He was denied bail.

Balmer's mother told CBS News that she contacted multiple police departments before the attack but couldn't get anyone to help.

CNN's Danny Freeman has the latest.

DANNY FREEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, Pam, amazingly, we actually have an abundance of information now exactly about how police believe that 38-year-old Cody Balmer was able to set fire to the governor's mansion. Much of that is because a lot of it was actually captured on surveillance video. But the big unknown here still at this point is motive.

But let me tell you what we do know at this time. 38-year-old, as I noted, Cody Balmer, he was arraigned officially yesterday for, again, setting fire to the governor's mansion. As he went into that small Harrisburg judge's office, he actually stuck his tongue out at the cameras as reporters peppered him with questions, including why do you hate Governor Josh Shapiro so much? He did not ultimately answer any of those questions.

Inside the court the judge ultimately denied him bail because while the judge said she appreciated that Balmer turned himself into authorities, she still believed prison was appropriate for the safety of himself and the community.

Now, notably inside of the courtroom, when Balmer was asked by the judge if he had a history of mental illness, Balmer said that's the rumor, but no, ma'am. And remember, he's facing a number of charges, including attempted homicide, terrorism, aggravated arson, and aggravated assault.

Now, when it comes to the fire itself, we know a lot of details, especially from court documents that were fired yesterday, we know that Balmer brought with him to beer bottles at least filled with gasoline, essentially makeshift Molotov cocktails. And he had that with him when he jumped over the governor's residence fence behind me, and ultimately that's what he threw to set fire to the residence. We also learned that disturbing detail that he said he was planning to beat Shapiro with a hammer if he encountered an inside of the residence.

Also, an interesting note that we learned last night from CNN's John Miller, it was actually Pennsylvania Capitol Police who initially alerted the governor's security detail that a breach possibly had occurred. And then Pennsylvania State Police said that while troopers were looking for Balmer on site, he was able to evade them before ultimately setting fire to the residence.

As we -- I should say this, Wolf, Pam, we should note there is now a massive investigation going on by Pennsylvania State Police into how this massive breach possibly could have happened and how this even could have been possible considering how much security there is on site. We'll wait for an update from state police on that part of this story. But meanwhile, Balmer's next court appearance is expected for next Wednesday. Wolf? Pam?

BROWN: All right. Danny Freeman, thanks for that report. Wolf?

BLITZER: Also happening today, Hamas officials are now confirming to CNN that they're, quote, studying, studying a new ceasefire proposal from Israel. The militant group would have to release ten more hostages in exchange for hundreds of Palestinian prisoners and detainees being set free.

Let's go live right now to CNN Jerusalem Correspondent Jeremy Diamond. Jeremy, you're in Tel Aviv right now. I understand that the Israeli- American hostage, Edan Alexander, would be among the first hostages released under this new deal.

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's exactly right, Wolf. He would, in fact, be the first hostage to be released as part of ten hostages under this latest Israeli proposal, which Hamas is now reviewing.

But, of course, Edan Alexander has really been at the center of various proposals over the course of the last month or so since the last ceasefire between Israel and Hamas fell apart because he is indeed the last living American still being held captive by Hamas inside of Gaza.

Now, we know that this is the most detailed proposal we have seen so far. It doesn't mean that we are anywhere close to a deal, but there certainly is a sense of momentum. And if this proposal becomes a reality, you would see ten hostages be released, first, Edan Alexander, and then the nine others in two different phases. You would also see hundreds of Palestinian prisoners and hundreds of Palestinian detainees released in exchange for those hostages. The proposal also would cede the bodies of 16 deceased Israeli hostages released as part of this agreement.

But one of the critical points is that this proposal also calls for the disarmament of Gaza. And a senior Hamas official is telling us that that is a nonstarter for the militant group that that runs the Gaza Strip. And so that leads to questions about whether or not this proposal can indeed become a reality. Certainly, what we have seen is that the number of hostages that Hamas seems to be willing to entertain releasing as part of this deal does seem to be going up.

[10:20:02]

Israel had stood firm to a number of 11 until recently.

Now, they're talking about ten. But Hamas is now discussing a proposal about ten hostages when previously they had been somewhere in the realm of four or five maximum.

So, there certainly does seem to be movement, Wolf, but as so often we see these rays of progress and then things collapse again, so a lot of caution here as we watch how this will develop in the coming days and weeks. Wolf?

BLITZER: And we will watch it together with you. Jeremy Diamond in Tel Aviv for us, thank you very much. Pamela?

BROWN: Still ahead, caught on camera, a Venezuelan man is tackled and detained by federal agents inside a New Hampshire courthouse. We're going to take a closer look at the case with a former U.S. district court judge up next.

You're in The Situation Room.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:25:00]

BLITZER: I want to get some more right now on our top story, the legal saga over the fate of a Maryland man mistakenly deported to El Salvador. The White House doubling down right now on its refusal to bring Kilmar Abrego Garcia back to the United States despite a U.S. Supreme Court ordered to, quote, facilitate his return to the U.S. while also not infringing on the president's ability to conduct foreign affairs.

Let's get some serious analysis right now from the former U.S. district court judge, Shira Scheindlen. Judge Scheindlin, thanks so much for joining us.

Here's what President Trump said about this case on Friday. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: If the Supreme Court said bring somebody back, I would do that. I respect the Supreme Court.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: President Trump is now saying something very, very different. Is he defying a court order?

SHIRA SCHEINDLIN, FORMER UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT JUDGE: Well, he certainly isn't facilitating the return of Abrego Garcia, and that's what the court order requires him to do. I can't find any act he's taken that facilitates that return. I hear narrow construction that facilitate means, oh, I'll send an airplane if they want to let him go. And they, El Salvador, doesn't seem to want to let him go. But I think that's disingenuous at best.

The president of the United States has a lot of power. El Salvador's a little country. The president could say to the president of El Salvador, I want this guy back, and that would be the end of it. Then he'd be on a plane and then he'd be returned.

So, I think the judge today is going to be very stern and is going to say to the lawyers for the government, what have you done to facilitate the return? And they're not going to have an answer. They're going to say, we can't get into foreign policy. That's foreign policy. And I don't believe that for a moment.

BROWN: Right. But they're seizing on what was also in the Supreme Court opinion about the President having the ability to conduct foreign affairs and how the district court judge should really factor that in the decision. But the bottom line here, right, is that the White House says Albrego Garcia is under the control of El Salvador, the Salvadoran president says he has no power to release him. So who determines this man's fate?

SCHEINDLIN: Oh, I don't think the El Salvador president doesn't think he has the power to do it. The El Salvador president said, I won't send this terrorist back. I think he does has have the power, but I think he's made the decision that the man is a member of MS-13 or the Tren de -- I can't say it right, but the other terrorist group.

BROWN: Tren de Aragua, that's right.

SCHEINDLIN: Thank you, thank you. But the fact is there's no proof at all, there's no evidence at all that he's a member of either. So, that seems to be just another excuse.

The U.S. has admitted, has said, we made an error in sending this man out because there had been an order called withholding of removal, which means he can be removed, but he was. So, we've admitted an error. We're not telling El Salvador to do it, and we should be, and, of course, the El Salvador president has the power to do it if he wants to. But I think he thinks he's working with President Trump to not return this man. So, yes, I see it as defiance, and I think the judge will see it as defiance.

Then the question is, what can the judge do about it? Is she going to consider contempt proceedings? If she does, and if she holds the government in contempt, that brings it back to the Supreme Court. Because there would be an appeal to the Fourth Circuit, then there would be the Supreme Court, and we'd hear from them again as to what's going to happen here.

BLITZER: As you know, Judge Scheindlin, the Trump administration is claiming that the U.S. Supreme Court's ruling only meant they had to remove, quote, domestic obstacles, not that they had to work with the government of El Salvador to try to bring Abrego Garcia home. They seem to be taking advantage of the court's vague language about, quote, facilitating his return. Do you think that argument will hold up?

SCHEINDLIN: I don't. I don't. I think they're trying to spin it favorable to the government. Each side here is claimed a victory, which is kind of interesting. But a 9-0 decision that brought every member of the court together to me is very clear. It means he didn't get to process, he has to be returned, and you have to facilitate that return.

So, I do think that the judge, as I said, will have very little patience for the government's position and will consider what can she do about it? What can the court do? Is she really without power?

BROWN: Right, that's a big question. Before we let you go, Judge, I want to get your thoughts on President Trump freezing more than $2 billion in funding to Harvard. And just moments ago in a post on Truth Social, Trump now says the university should lose its tax exempt status and be taxed as a political entity. Is this constitutional?

[10:30:00] SCHEINDLIN: No, it's not. And what Harvard has to do is what the law firms have done that are resisting Trump's orders. It will have to become the plaintiff in court.