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Rubio Says, U.S. Needs To Move On If Peace Not Possible In Ukraine; Sen. Chris Van Hollen (D-MD) Meets Mistakenly Deported Man In El Salvador; Classes Canceled At FSU As Campus Recovers From Mass Shooting. Aired 10-10:30a ET
Aired April 18, 2025 - 10:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Happening now, back from El Salvador, Maryland Senator Chris Van Hollen is expected to give an update on his visit with Kilmar Abrego Garcia.
And the clock is ticking. Fresh off high level talks, Secretary of State, Marco Rubio says, if Ukraine peace talks continue to stall the US we'll have to, quote, move on.
Welcome to our viewers in the United States and around the world. Wolf Blitzer is on assignment. I'm Pamela Brown and you are in The Situation Room.
Well, breaking news right here, the nation's top diplomat is on his way back to Washington after dropping a bombshell warning to Russia and Ukraine. If a peace deal is not close, Washington walks away.
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MARCO RUBIO, SECRETARY OF STATE: We need to figure out here now, within a matter of days, whether this is doable in the short term, because if it's not, then I think we're just going to move on.
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BROWN: Rubio and Trump Envoy Steve Witkoff met with Ukrainian and European officials in Paris with no breakthroughs toward Indy, the three-year-old war.
So, let's go live now to CNN National Security Correspondent Kylie Atwood. Kylie, what happens now?
KYLIE ATWOOD, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, that's a critical question here, Pam, and that is why we will be watching the next few days so incredibly closely.
The secretary of state made it clear that the patience of the Trump administration, including President Trump himself, that patience is growing thin with regard to their efforts to try and broker an end to the war in Ukraine, between the Ukrainians and the Russians. Now, the secretary of state laid out the outline of a peace plan when he was in Paris meeting with Europeans and Ukrainians just over the last 24 hours here. He was also there with White House Envoy Steve Witkoff. And we should note that Rubio also said that he shared that outline with the Russian foreign minister. That was in a phone call.
So, now that both sides have the outlines of what the Trump administration thinks could actually trigger conversations to get to an end to this war, they are essentially trying to get both sides to act quickly here. This is a big shift for the administration because we should note that just yesterday, Vice President Vance said that he was optimistic, the Trump administration was optimistic about getting an end to this war. We also heard from Steve Witkoff earlier this week after he had just met with President Putin, telling Fox News that he said that that meeting with Putin was compelling and that he now has an understanding of how to get to a permanent piece from the perspective of Putin.
So, now the administration is trying to take all those pieces and compel talks to actually get there. We'll have to watch and see if they have both sides come forth in the next few days and say they're ready to talk.
BROWN: All right. Kylie Atwood, thank you so much.
And at any minute we're expecting new details from Maryland Democratic Senator Chris Van Hollen following his meeting with Kilmar Abrego Garcia last night in El Salvador. Van Hollen posted this photo of the meeting to X providing the first look at Abrego Garcia since he was mistakenly deported and sent to a notorious Salvadoran mega prison last month.
For more on this, we're joined now by CNN Correspondent Priscilla Alvarez. So, Priscilla, we're expecting to hear more from Senator Van Hollen today. What do we know so far about this visit? Because, initially, he was blocked for meeting him, and the Salvadoran President is also trying to put his spin on this.
PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, as soon as he arrives back into the United States, he's going to get a lot of questions about how this meeting came together. That's sort of the big question as to what happened here. Because, to your point, when he arrived to El Salvador, the senator, that is, it seemed like he was being stonewalled, that there was not going to be an opportunity for him to see Kilmar Abrego Garcia, which was his intent when he went to El Salvador.
But then suddenly this photo popped up on X yesterday, it was initially posted by the Salvadoran president, Nayib Bukele, and then later it was posted by Senator Van Hollen. Both photos, however, showing there was a meeting with Abrego Garcia where he was not dressed in what we know the attire to be for prisoners in CECOT, but rather dressed in more casual attire.
So, what that conversation was, we still are not sure yet, there you see the images, or how this meeting came to be again in El Salvador.
Now, his wife did provide a statement to CNN saying, quote, the following, my children and my prayers have been answered.
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The efforts of my family and community in fighting for justice are being heard because I now know that my husband is alive. God is listening and the community is standing strong.
But to your point, Pamela, the White House looking at it a different way, saying that the senator, quote, firmly established Democrats at the party whose top priority is the welfare of an illegal alien MS-13 terrorist.
So, it was interesting seeing the public response to this yesterday. On the one hand, there was a lot of praise for the senator having actually had this meeting with Abrego Garcia. On the other hand, you saw how Republicans are seizing it on this to cast the senator and Democrats as more interested, again, in the MS-13, immigration versus -- well, versus anything else. But, again, just to remind viewers, we do not have sufficient evidence. Judges have not found sufficient evidence to tie Abrego Garcia to MS-13.
BROWN: Right. And we've been asking, look, a confidential informant had said back in 2019 that he was but he was, but he was not charged or convicted. He has denied it, his family has his lawyer. So, and, again, we've been asking the White House. But the Democrats have argued and other legal experts that this is really is about due process, even if he is a member of MS-13. This is about due process that is guaranteed under the Fifth Amendment of the Constitution.
Priscilla Alvarez, thank you so much.
And I want to turn now to another legal front. The Trump administration is facing yet another legal setback in this deportation fight. A federal appeals court unanimously rejected the administration's latest bid to ignore orders to return Kilmar Abrego Garcia to the U.S. That ruling coming with a scathing opinion, accusing the administration of striking at the heart of the rule of law. And this morning, we're getting some new CNN reporting about a gauntlet of court battles today that could have major implications on the president's agenda.
CNN Senior Crime and Justice Correspondent Katelyn Polantz is here now with this brand new reporting. Katelyn, walk us through this growing conflict between the executive and judicial branches right now.
KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Pam, I'm looking at four different cases today. One of them is the situation with Abrego Garcia that I'll get back to in a second, but two hearings this morning about is the administration openly defying court decisions, court orders upon them.
One is about excluding the Associated Press from the White House press poll, changing the way that White House press poll operates. That's coming up in just a few minutes. Another hearing about the decision to cut 90 percent of the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau's workforce, even after courts said, don't do anything that makes it impossible for this bureau to continue doing that work. That's before judges.
There's also a situation related to the migrant flights in court where there are criminal contempt proceedings that are about to kick up and the administration is running to an appeals court saying, step in, stop these criminal contempt proceeding.
All that is what I'm watching today, but then there is this opinion from Judge J. Harvie Wilkinson on the Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals in the Abrego Garcia case, writing about the bigger picture here, how the president is using his power, warning that the executive branch is upsetting the balance of power and the protections of the Constitution, what he writes is, if today the executive claims the right to deport without due process and in disregard of court orders, what assurance will there be tomorrow that it will not deport American citizens and then disclaim responsibility to bring them home? And what assurance shall there be that the executive will not train its broad discretionary powers upon its political enemies?
The executive may succeed for a time in weakening the courts, but over time, history will script the tragic gap between what was and all that might have been. We yet cling to the hope that it is not naive to believe our good brethren in the executive branch perceive the rule of law as vital to the American ethos. This case, Abrego Garcia, presents their unique chance to vindicate that value and to summon the best that is within us while there is still time.
Such a warning on the bigger picture here, it's not just due process, it's the entire American experiment and the Constitution at stake.
BROWN: Yes. This is a -- I mean, scathing words from this judge who's a conservative judge, respected conservative appellate judge.
Katelyn Polantz, thank you for laying this out and what is happening right now, this tension between the executive and judiciary branches.
And happening right now in Florida, classes are canceled today at Florida State University after yesterday's deadly mass shooting. And look at these new pictures we're getting into The Situation Room this morning. Tributes to those were killed or injured, began appearing on campus, as you see right here. The university confirming this morning that the suspect is a student there.
Also new video show students taking shelter inside a classroom just as alarms go off.
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You hear that the crying there in the background, the fear. According to the county sheriff, the suspected shooter is the son of one of their deputies.
So, let's go live now to scene in Correspondent Nick Valencia on Tallahassee. Nick, police say the handgun that was found on him is his mother's old service weapon.
NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right. It's a stunning detail to so many here that he was connected to the police department and eyewitnesses that I've talked to said they should have -- that they thought that he should have known better, to, you know, not carry something like this out.
One more importantly, though, I want to show you the scene here, what's happening right now at this hour, we are on campus at the site of where the shooting happened, and this is a very eerie scene, frozen in time here. These student tables were set up for events that were happening on Thursday when the shooting happened. And you could see here these belongings that were left behind just a, it must have been absolute commotion, a backpack left behind, a half drank Starbucks cup. And I want you to walk with me here. This is probably the most eerie thing that we've seen, people literally ran out of their shoes.
Now, a makeshift memorial has been set up. It's 10:00 A.M. and students were allowed to come back on campus. And it was just before 10:00 A.M. that we saw more people begin to show up here, come to this memorial that we're about to show you also, you know, come to just sort of, pay their respects.
The shock of what happened and what this community experienced yesterday is starting to settle in. So many people that we've seen walk through this pathway here, tears in their eyes, just emotional. We saw a couple here holding each other, and I want you to walk with me over here to show you this makeshift memorial.
So many questions, the principle one here is, is motive. Why did this individual do this, this 20-year-old, what may have inspired. And another big question is if the mother will face any charges. She was, of course, a Leon County sheriff's deputy, and according to authorities, one of the weapons used in yesterday's shooting was her former service weapon, now her personal weapon.
So, big questions remain and a lot of questions about what may have inspired this individual to come here and do what he did yesterday. Pamela?
BROWN: Yes, Nick Valencia, thank you so much.
And also new today, a court hearing now expected. Next week for Luigi Mangione. He has been indicted on federal charges, including murder and stalking. Mangione is accused of gunning down the UnitedHealthcare CEO on a New York City sidewalk.
Let's go live to Kara Scannell, who is right outside the courthouse. Tell us what he will face at this hearing and about this indictment, Kara.
KARA SCANNELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Pam. So, a federal grand jury handed up the indictment against Luigi Mangione now charging him with federal charges officially through an indictment. That means it went through a grand jury where he's facing two counts of stalking, one count involving a firearm offense, and murder through the use of a firearm. That is the count that the attorney general, Pam Bondi, said that the government would seek the death penalty on if Mangione is convicted. That was a serious turn of events that happened just a few weeks ago leading up to this indictment now coming down. And we do expect him to appear in court as soon as next week. He's not immediately coming to the courthouse today because he's already in federal custody, because he was charged by a criminal complaint several weeks ago.
He's also facing state charges in both New York where he is facing murder charges, and in Pennsylvania where he is facing forgery related charges. He has pleaded not guilty to those. His lawyer is expected to -- says that he will plead guilty to the federal charges when he's in court, which, again, Pam could be soon as next week.
BROWN: All right. Kara Scannell, thanks so much. And happening right now, President Trump is taking his trade war to the seas. The administration has announced new fees on Chinese ships coming to U.S. ports.
CNN's Vanessa, Yurkevich joins us now from New York with the latest. So, tell us about this, Vanessa.
VANESSA YURKEVICH, CNN BUSINESS AND POLITICS CORRESPONDENT: Yes, this is essentially another tariff on top of a tariff. It's non-specific in terms of percentage. This is an additional fee that now Chinese ships will have to pay if they dock at U.S. ports. So, this could be a Chinese company operating a Chinese ship, or it could be another country or another business operating a Chinese-made ship. And essentially those fees would escalate over the course of several years. You can see them right there on your screen there. They're going to go into effect in 180 days.
But according to China, this is what they said in response to this move by the president yesterday. They said, quote, it is not only raises global shipping costs and disrupts the stability of the global industry, but also increases inflation pressures. That is what they said.
And according to a retail analyst, Pamela, I spoke to they're not far off. Because, ultimately, the shipping carrier will pass that cost onto the US business that is bringing in the goods that are on that ship. And then that business, as we've talked about for months now, then has to decide, Pamela, if they're going to pass it down to the consumer.
And I spoke to a retail analyst as well about what it means for the U.S. shipping industry, the ship building industry. Because, ultimately, the president says that is why he's putting these fees in place.
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Well, Pamela, to make a container vessel here in the United States, it costs about four times more than it does to build that same ship in China. And, Pamela, remember, this is before taking into account tariffs on key materials to build those ships, like steel, aluminum, copper semiconductors. So, while many retail analysts believe that they want to beef up the U.S. shipping industry, they agree that this is probably not the way to do it. We also need to be investing in our workforce and our training here in order to grow that industry. Another tariff on containers and shipping lines is not really the way to do it because, ultimately, Pamela, that gets passed down through the chain down to the U.S. consumer.
BROWN: All right. Vanessa Yurkevich, thank you so much for the latest there.
And still ahead, right here in The Situation Room, the White House versus the court of law. From the firing of federal workers to banning media outlets from the press court, renewed concerns about whether the Trump administration is disobeying the courts, and the danger it could pose to American democracy, according to a federal judge that just spoke out.
And it's used to strengthen your teeth, but Health Secretary RFK Jr. is calling on states to ban fluoride from drinking water. I'll speak with one doctor who actually supports that idea.
You're in The Situation Room.
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BROWN: Well, we are tracking the fallout from the latest salvo in President Trump's clash with the courts. A conservative federal appeals judge is slamming the administration's handling of the case of Kilmar Abrego Garcia writing, quote, the government is asserting a right to stash away residents of this country and foreign prisons without the semblance of due process that is the foundation of our constitutional order. Further, it claims in essence that because it has rid itself of custody, that there is nothing that can be done. This should be shocking not only to judges but to the intuitive sense of liberty that Americans far removed from courthouses still hold dear.
CNN Legal Analyst Carrie Cordero is joining me now with more reaction. I mean, that's pretty remarkable language coming from, from a federal judge, a conservative Reagan appointee.
CARRIE CORDERO, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: It is. And the Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals didn't necessarily need to issue this more lengthy opinion. Judge Wilkinson didn't necessarily need to do that. What he could have done is they could have just issued a very short opinion saying, no, you know what? This case still belongs with the district court that needs to follow what the Supreme Court had told us to do. But instead Judge Wilkinson and the Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals took this opportunity to weigh in on what is this bigger issue of the fact that there is due process, that even though this individual is a non-U.S. person, not a citizen, that we still have a basic level of constitutional protections and the executive branch needs, I guess, a reminder in Judge Wilkinson's opinion here that the executive branch needs to respect that.
BROWN: And that they are co-equal branches of government.
CORDERO: They are. And so the courts have a role here and we are going to continue to see them hold the executive branch accountable to adhere to the law, to adhere to the Constitution.
BROWN: Because we now have these two federal judges handling Trump administration deportation cases who essentially say that they believe the administration is acting in bad faith and failing to comply with their orders. Do you think Trump is just testing the limits of his power, or do you see this as just open defiance?
BROWN: Well, so I do continue to come back to what I think is the president's most recent statement, which is that he has made a public statement saying, I will abide the Supreme Court, we will abide court orders. But what he has also said is that he will appeal to the extent that is possible. And so we are seeing what pushing the law to its limits looks like.
So, the Supreme Court, in its opinion in the deportation case, which, really, Judge Wilkinson's opinion calling it stashing a person, is, I think, a more appropriate term because it doesn't actually follow traditional immigration law where deportation is a process under the law, but we are seeing the administration and the president push things as far as they can.
And so in this particular case, that's what we've got. We have the Supreme Court that weighed in. They sent it back to the district court. Now, the Fourth Circuit, which is in the middle, has said, no, you have to go back to the district court. And we still will see the courts have tools available to them, for example, contempt, that if they continue to see the executive branch not comply with what the judges at the district court orders are requiring, not produce evidence, not produce information, not follow their orders, then we potentially will be in a situation where they will have to hold executive branch members in contempt and go down that process. But the courts still do, I think, have some tools available to them.
BROWN: So, do you think that this will ultimately merge? Because you have the Venezuelan case where they were -- where the Judge Boasberg said, turn the plane around that was oral. Then there was a written order and the administration claims it wasn't violating his order because it was looking at the written order, not his oral order, so you have that and then you have the Abrego Garcia case. So, these are two separate cases, but it seems like they're kind of on the same track to back up to the Supreme Court.
CORDERO: Yes. I don't know that the court will necessarily merge them in terms of like the actual opinions and the actual hearings because they address two separate areas of law. So, the flight cases, which are now in Texas, those individuals --
BROWN: That's the Alien Enemies Act.
CORDERO: -- the Venezuelans, right, that's under the Alien Enemies Act, which as you know, is this, you know, 18th century law that the courts have to wrestle with whether or not the Venezuelan gang that's designated, it constitutes an invasion.
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And so it's like a specific interpretation of the law that the courts are going to have to make in that case.
The other case is different because that is concerning this individual and the administration has handled that under what would traditionally be different immigration law, traditional deportation. What I think is the most critical piece of that case is not the fact that he was deported, or I'm using that term very lightly because that he was sent to another country. The critical issue in that case, why it's such an important due process case, is because he's sent to a prison, and so he has no freedom.
So, we've taken an individual which, again, Judge Wilkinson has said, you can't stash a person. You can't just basically, in my words, spirit a person off the streets of the United States and not just send them to another country because you are deporting them, but send them to where they are in prison and have no more liberty, have no more freedom without any due process.
BROWN: Right, a mega prison known for human rights abuses. But also with both of those cases, the commonality they share -- yes, they're separate. The commonality they share and what the judges have expressed concern about is a lack of due process, not just in the Abrego Garcia case, but in the other one too, which is one of the reasons Judge Boasberg initially said, turn the plane around.
CORDERO: Right.
BROWN: And they didn't do that. And now, you know, this is likely headed to -- back up to the Supreme Court and we'll see what happens.
CORDERO: That's right.
BROWN: All right, Carrie Cordero, thank you so much.
And up next, the details that Tallahassee investigators hope will lead them to more answers about the motive of the suspected Florida State shooter.
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