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The Situation Room

Papal Conclave Begins. Aired 11-11:30a ET

Aired May 07, 2025 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:00:08]

CARDINAL PIETRO PAROLIN, VATICAN SECRETARY OF STATE (through translator): And I, Pietro Cardinal Parolin, promise, vow and swear, so help me, God and these holy Gospels, which I touch with my hand.

ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: Cardinal Parolin, the most senior cardinal, the secretary of state, Christopher, the first to take the individual oath as he puts his hand upon the Gospel, and now they all will follow.

CHRISTOPHER LAMB, CNN VATICAN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, and they will say their first name, their last name, and they will promise to vow and swear to follow the rules of the conclave and, if elected, defend the Holy See and its freedom.

BURNETT: And each of them take the same oath, as you hear. They say their first name, I, name, cardinal, last name, and they take the promise.

We are now going to see Cardinal Tagle, also seen as a front-runner for potential pope, taking the oath here from the Philippines.

LAMB: That's right, he's one of the front-runners. He has a position leading the Vatican's evangelization office, a charismatic figure, someone who has been tipped as a possible pope.

BURNETT: Both humble and charismatic, an unusual combination.

This, in Latin, the Cardinal Prevost from Chicago, an American who is also seen as a front-runner.

LAMB: That's right, born in Chicago, served for many years in Peru, is seen as a candidate and has a senior role in the Vatican.

BURNETT: Each of them as we watch will, of course, be taking this oath in Latin, whether they speak it or not, Christopher, every one of them has prepared and will take this oath in Latin.

LAMB: Yes.

And I imagine most of them have basic Latin, and a lot of them speak Italian, which is quite similar to Latin, so they should be able to manage it.

BURNETT: All right, this is Cardinal Erdo, who is also seen as a front-runner, placing his hand.

As each of them place their hand, I have been noticing, Christopher, of course, the ring of the cardinal, each placing their right hand.

LAMB: Yes.

BURNETT: Sometimes, the Vatican does give us that picture, each with that same ring.

LAMB: Yes, and this is the ring they're given when they are made cardinals. So it's a special ring for the cardinal, and often symbolizes something to do with the Scripture or the Gospel, that it's a ring that they all wear.

BURNETT: And, obviously, so much of what we're seeing now is the ceremony and the importance of the moment of what they are wearing, every bit of it.

But those rings...

LAMB: Yes.

BURNETT: ... do they wear those in a sense like someone might wear a wedding band? Is that a permanent thing?

LAMB: Yes, it's an idea that they are committed and vowed to their role as cardinals.

And, of course, the cardinals wear red as a sign that they're willing to shed their blood in the service of the faith. So, it's...

BURNETT: Yes, much as Christ on the cross.

LAMB: Exactly, so it is -- they are all symbols pointing to something. They're wearing the ring and their robes.

BURNETT: As we watch each of them, Christopher, what -- and we watch each of those hands, there is something, I don't know, to me, that is meaningful about watching a hand, a human hand, an aging, frail hand, as we all just have a hand, making such a solemn oath.

[11:05:05]

LAMB: Yes, placing it on the Gospels, the Gospels, of course, the account of the life and teaching of Jesus Christ, to which they have committed themselves. And they're showing that commitment by placing their hands on the oath.

This is Cardinal Raymond Burke from Wisconsin, senior figure in the Vatican in the past, often a critic of Pope Francis.

BURNETT: And, Elise, as we watch the cardinal from Wisconsin, obviously, there are multiple American cardinals. And, for the first time -- and I don't know how serious it necessarily may end up being, but for the first time we have heard serious talk about some of them.

Cardinal Prevost, who just took the oath, is seen as a front-runner to be a possible pope, the American from Chicago.

ELISE ALLEN, CNN VATICAN ANALYST: He really is. And he's somebody that came up towards the later end of the pre-conclave meetings. He's somebody that I think is very respected amongst the cardinals.

He's seen as very balanced, as very calm, as very moderate, but he has a lot of experience. He can bring the perspective of the West, the United States, but also Europe. He's spent 20 years in Latin America as a bishop and as a priest there and as a missionary in his religious order, the Augustinians.

So he has a perspective of the Global South, but he also has a perspective of the Vatican. And I think that's something that is prized among the cardinals, that diversity and that global view that he has. He can really bring a lot, I think, to that -- to the office of Peter.

And I thin that's why he's sort of emerged as sort of a front-runner.

BURNETT: Katie McGrady joins us as well, Vatican analyst.

And, Katie, as they each take this oath and then return to their places, then what happens? We know, obviously, we are now not far away from the first round of voting. But between taking the oath of silence, the solemn oath, and that first vote, the cameras leave, the room goes dark to us, but what happens in the room in that time?

KATIE MCGRADY, CNN VATICAN ANALYST: So, eventually, they will hear a short exhortation from the papal preacher, who they chose to preach to them.

And we have no idea what he's necessarily going to say. He's preached a lot. And many of them have heard him preaching before. He will give them kind of one final word of encouragement. This is the last look, so to speak, at them while they're going through this proverbial roll call and making this oath.

And then, after the doors have fully closed, after the preacher has left, after Archbishop Ravelli has left, he's gone and said "Extra omnes" and the doors have shut, they will draw lots. Three of them will be randomly selected to be the scrutineers, so they will count the votes.

Three of them will be the infirmarii, and they will go collect the votes from any sick cardinals who had to stay back at the Casa Santa Marta. And then three of them will be the revisers. They will be the ones who check the votes. So they have a little bit of housekeeping to do.

So they have a moment of kind of quiet reflection, and then everybody really does leave, and the 133 of them are on their own. And in a very analog way, we will find out what happens inside.

BURNETT: Yes, and we are watching Cardinal Dolan of New York, very well-known in the U.S. and to New Yorkers, taking his oath. This is his second conclave, Christopher, that Cardinal Dolan has been part of.

LAMB: Yes, that's right. He took part in the conclave that elected Pope Francis.

And, of course, it's quite an honor, I think, for a cardinal to get to be part of two conclaves. Sometimes, cardinals are happy just to be part of one, but he's been part of two, so that's quite something.

BURNETT: Yes. And his enthusiasm for this, of course, is infectious to see in something so solemn, that he is also able to have that clear joy in being a part of it.

LAMB: Yes.

BURNETT: All right, we are watching this. They are going in the order, as we said, from most senior to least. We have many of the front-runners still to come, so that you can see all of their faces as we continue, so many of them new to this themselves, the majority of them named since Francis.

So, for all -- most of them, this is their first conclave as well.

We will take a very brief break and be back as they continue to take the individual oaths of silence at this conclave for the 267th pope.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:13:47]

BURNETT: And welcome back from St. Peter's Square at the Vatican.

You see the cardinals taking the individual oaths of silence, the solemn oath that they take before they begin their deliberations. And the first vote where we will see smoke in a bit -- maybe an hour, maybe a little bit more from now, we will see smoke from the first vote.

We're now on the 43rd cardinal out of 133 taking that individual oath. In just the past couple of moments, if you have been with us while we were in that break, Christopher Lamb, our Vatican correspondent, we saw a couple of the front-runners, Cardinal Bo and also Cardinal Lacroix, who is from Quebec.

LAMB: That's right. We saw him take the oath.

Some people have talked about him as a candidate, Cardinal Lacroix, who's been involved with helping Pope Francis in his governance of the church. We also saw Cardinal Bo of Myanmar.

And as the cardinals come up, I'm struck by what a diverse group they are. And that was really down to Pope Francis, who appointed cardinals from all over the world. He really internationalized the body of cardinals. They're from 71 countries and from many places that haven't had cardinals before, which I think is very significant.

[11:15:05] I can see here this is the cardinal from Tonga, Soane Patita, who -- Tonga has never had a cardinal before.

BURNETT: No.

LAMB: So you really get this sense they're from all corners of the globe.

BURNETT: Elise, Tonga, Mongolia, and a front-runner even from Kinshasa in the DRC, places that did not used to be places that would have representation in Rome.

ALLEN: Exactly.

Pope Francis made it a clear priority from the beginning to shed light on the peripheries. He said that he himself came from the peripheries. They had to go to the end of the world to find a pope. And he wanted to shed light there.

His whole goal, I think, one of them, as pope was to take the lights, not so much the focus, on the church away from Rome and extended out towards the people, towards those most invisible. And he certainly did that with his cardinal appointments. And their presence here today is a sign of just how much he wanted the church in those areas to have a voice.

BURNETT: And, Christopher, a church that still obviously is a church here in Rome, in the Vatican City, where we are, a church where speaking Italian matters. And yet it matters less than it ever has before. Europe matters less than it ever has before.

LAMB: That's right.

The axis of the Catholic Church has shifted away from Europe and the West to the Global South, to Asia. And you can see that with these cardinals taking the oath.

This is a Cardinal Cupich of Chicago, who's taking the oath, an important elector from the U.S.

BURNETT: Father Beck, as we are watching each of these hands on the holy gospel take this individual oath, there is something to think about just hand after hand touching the same piece of paper with the same oath that tangible human touch that we are watching.

REV. EDWARD BECK, CNN RELIGION CONTRIBUTOR: Yes, it's kind of a beautiful symbol, as you say, Erin, because it is human and it's something that we can say, when we swear, we swear on the Bible. They're swearing on the Scripture, and that really matters.

I can't help but think of an analogy. I was thinking about, what do these cardinals think and stand for? And I was thinking, with our Constitution, we have originalists versus living constitutionalists. And some of these cardinals would be more originalists, that doctrine and dogma cannot change, that we need to stick to the letter of the law. And some of them believe that the Gospel is a living, breathing word

of God, and that doctrine needs to be reinterpreted for the times, as Pope Francis really did. I mean, he didn't change anything, but he said, you have to be more pastoral in your approach. You have to realize that there are exceptions.

BURNETT: Yes.

BECK: You have to really relate it to the people to whom you are speaking and shepherding.

And I just think it's an interesting analogy, because I do believe that that will be the deciding factor here in who is elected. Do they believe in someone who needs to kind of regress in some way to the vision before Pope Francis, more the vision of John Paul II and Benedict? Or do they want to continue in this line of Pope Francis of going to the peripheries and openness and inclusion, things like women and the laity having more of a say?

Are they going to be open to that? LGBTQ issues, will they be willing to continue to open the doors? Married priests, can the conversation continue? I mean, some believe it shouldn't. Some believe it should.

And, as they come there, I'm just wondering what's going in the mind of each of them and where they stand on some of these issues. We know where some of them stand, but a lot of them, we don't, because we don't really know them that well.

BURNETT: Yes, and they don't know each other, Christopher, which has been such a marked part of this process, is that they do not know each other very well.

We have just seen two more people perceived as front-runners, cardinals taking the oath, Cardinal Tobin from Newark...

LAMB: Yes.

BURNETT: ... in New Jersey in the United States, and Cardinal Arborelius from Stockholm.

LAMB: Yes, that's right.

Cardinal Tobin sometimes talked of as a candidate. He's a -- he's the cardinal of Newark, New Jersey, but he spent a long time in Rome working in the Vatican, also leading a religious order. He speaks a number of languages and is seen as someone with a kind of global reach and a global popularity. So he is someone that has been talked about.

BURNETT: Christopher, as we watch the diversity here -- and diversity was a word explicitly used in the homily this morning by Giovanni Re as he addressed the cardinals in preparation for this decision.

We talk about how Pope Francis named so many of these men. And he picked them from places that had not had cardinals before. How does that work? How does a pope choose what -- who gets a cardinal, who does not? How does that work? [11:20:13]

LAMB: Well, it's a good question.

I mean, in the past, there used to be a system where, if you were the bishop of a certain diocese or part of the world, you would become a cardinal. But Pope Francis ripped up that unwritten rule book, and he basically decided to choose cardinals, bishops who he thought were doing good work, often on the peripheries and the margins.

And no one knew who the pope was going to name. And so he really decided on his own kind of instinct who he thought was a good person to name as a cardinal.

BURNETT: And which shows, in a sense, the supreme power, why we call this a supreme pontiff.

LAMB: Absolutely.

I mean, the closest thing a pope has to succession planning is choosing cardinals.

BURNETT: Yes. And Pope Francis, of course, chose the majority of the men who will be voting here.

As we sit in St. Peter's Square, Ben Wedeman is with us out among all the people from room and the tourists that are gathering here, some in anticipation of the first smoke, which will come later today -- Ben.

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes.

I mean, what we are seeing there and as there are a lot of people who have been streaming up the Via della Conciliazione, this broad boulevard that leads up to St. Peter's Square,they have been coming in all day long. And it appears now they're actually gathering. Many of them are here to see what kind of smoke emerges from the chimney that's been installed through the roof of the Sistine Chapel.

Now, some of these people are simply accidental tourists, so to speak, who are here. They have scheduled their trip. And it just so happens that they are here for the conclave. Others have come here specifically to -- for instance, we spoke to a group of people who today were supposed to have an audience with Pope Francis.

But, instead, they're here for the first day of the conclave. And, for them, it was very significant simply to be here. And I think that is -- the longer this conclave goes on, the more people we are going to see. And I can tell you, having attended or covered previous conclaves, what you will also see is more and more local residents of Rome are going to be coming here.

And when they finally put out the white smoke from that chimney, we will see many people just flocking in from the neighborhoods in this part of Rome to be in St. Peter's Square below the window behind me in the basilica to hear who it is, who has been named the pope. And when I was here in 2013, there was so much speculation, as there

is now, about the most papabili, the most popable, candidates. And when they announced that it was Jorge Bergoglio of France, it was a surprise to many people.

So I think, as much as we're talking about all these various figures who look like they're the most likely candidate, I think we should be ready for a surprise, a surprise candidate. Who knows where he could come from.

But, certainly, as Chris was talking about and your other guests, we have seen this shift away from Europe to Asia, to Africa, where you see the number of people in -- who are going to church increasing. For instance, here in Italy, you walk into a church on Sunday morning, you will see a lot of old people, a handful of families.

But you go to church in Africa or Asia, they're crammed with people on a Sunday -- Erin.

BURNETT: So, we just saw -- as Ben was finishing here, Christopher, we saw the first African-American cardinal from the United States, Cardinal Wilton.

And perhaps, if you were watching, while he did it in Latin, you could hear the American accent.

LAMB: Yes, you could.

And I think you can see that from -- hear that from some of the cardinals. They obviously -- it's hard to take away the accent, but it's Cardinal Wilton Gregory, the former archbishop of Washington, D.C., the first African-American cardinal, who has just said his oath.

And here is Cardinal Aveline of Marseille in France. Some also see him as a front-runner. He's been talked of recently.

BURNETT: Yes, the archbishop of Marseille. And he has been seen as a front-runner.

All right, we will take a brief break and be back in just a moment.

We're getting ready for Cardinal Pizzaballa of Jerusalem, also seen as a front-runner.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:29:19]

BURNETT: And our coverage continues, the cardinals taking the individual oath of secrecy hand after hand, right hand on the Gospels, each of them with their cardinal's ring.

We have seen many of the front-runners, including just moments ago Cardinal Pierbattista Pizzaballa, Italian-born, as you may be able to tell from his name, but, at age 25, moved to Jerusalem, where he is cardinal and has been now for his entire career, much of his life, and is now seen as a front-runner in light of the conflict and his leadership during the Israel-Gaza crisis, Christopher.

LAMB: Yes, that's right. He's been a voice for peace during the Israel-Gaza war. He actually offered himself personally in exchange for release of the hostages.