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The Situation Room
Trump in Middle East; Sean 'Diddy' Combs Trial Continues. Aired 11-11:30a ET
Aired May 13, 2025 - 11:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: Happening now, a royal welcome for President Trump, as he arrives in the Middle East for the first major international trip of his second term. On his agenda for today, meetings with leaders, making a speech and hopefully a few deals.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: We want to welcome our viewers here in the United States and around the world. I'm Wolf Blitzer with Pamela Brown, and you're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
All that coming up, but we begin this hour with day two of testimony in the Sean "Diddy" Combs sex trafficking trial. The prosecution's star witness, Combs' ex-girlfriend, Cassie Ventura, is expected to take the stand today. So far, the jury has heard graphic and very disturbing details from a man who says he was paid to have sex with Cassie Ventura.
He also testified that he witnessed the music mogul assault her on two separate occasions. Combs has pleaded not guilty to all charges.
BROWN: And a quick note on CNN's coverage of this trial. On the left side of your screen, you will see information from our reporters inside that courtroom. It will be updating throughout the show. And that's because there's no video or audio recording allowed in federal court.
So, let's go live now to CNN anchor and chief legal analyst Laura Coates right outside that courthouse in New York.
Laura, so tell us more about when Ventura will take the stand. That is really such a big focus for today.
LAURA COATES, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF LEGAL ANALYST: She will take the stand any moment now.
She is the very next witness up. We are waiting to hear what might be explosive testimony from Cassie Ventura, the lynchpin of the prosecution's case. Remember, we were told by the defense yesterday this is the first time in 6.5 years, since the death of the mother of four of Sean "Diddy" Combs' children -- Kim Porter tragically out of pneumonia -- that the two of them will be in the same room face-to- face.
The defense called it a moment to witness closure. What we will witness, though, is testimony where she will try to bridge the gap over an 11-year period of what the prosecution has described as abuse and violence and coercion and intimidation, all to have her engage in these so-called freak-offs, days-long drug-fueled sex encounters without consent.
But just now in the courtroom, I witnessed something truly interesting. They are arguing as we speak with the judge over whether Cassie Ventura's husband can be in the audience. Cassie Ventura has just taken the stand. You're going to watch. And we will see in just a moment Cassie Ventura visibly pregnant, due in less than a month or so, confronted face-to-face with Sean "Diddy" Combs, her boyfriend and lover of more than a decade, the first time they will be together.
Now, they want to make sure that her husband could not be in the courtroom. The defense is saying they may call Mr. Fine, who, remember, is a physical trainer who Diddy hired to actually train Cassie Ventura.
BROWN: Laura, I want to let you go because the government is calling Cassie Ventura to the stand.
COATES: Yes.
BROWN: So you got to get back in there. Thank you, Laura.
COATES: I will be your eyes and ears. We will be right back. Thanks.
BROWN: I know you will be.
All right, and we're joined now by CNN legal analyst and former federal prosecutor Elliot Williams and entertainment attorney and former litigator Lisa Bonner.
All right, so Cassie Ventura is about to take the stand. Why is she so crucial to the prosecution's case?
ELLIOT WILLIAMS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Right, again.
And Laura touched on this a little bit. It's important to step back and remember what Sean Combs is charged with here. It's racketeering, sex trafficking and transportation of people. Now, it's far broader than simply these allegations of sexual abuse or physical abuse.
Now, what Cassie Ventura -- what the prosecution's supposed to establish with her is not just that the abuse happened, but that it happened for the purpose of threatening, coercing or forcing people, her and others, into sexual -- into forced sexual activity.
And, in fact, the video that we saw yesterday allegedly happened immediately before or in the process of one of these -- quote, unquote -- "freak-offs," suggesting that this beating was to keep her there and coerce her there.
BROWN: So, Lisa, to bring you in, what do you think the defense strategy will be when cross-examining Ventura? And we should also note, and this seems important and we have been talking about this, she's pregnant.
She's, I believe, several months pregnant.
WILLIAMS: Yes.
BROWN: So how will that also play into the cross-examining, do you think, Lisa?
LISA BONNER, ENTERTAINMENT ATTORNEY: Well, they are going to try to establish that she was a willing participant, that she knowingly engaged into this relationship with Combs.
It is no secret, in the entertainment industry, the music industry that Cassie Ventura did not have the strongest voice. And she did not have a lot of other options in terms of signing a recording contract.
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So, they're going to say that, listen, you went after Combs. You went and tried to establish a sexual relationship for the benefit of furthering your music career. Now, it is also important to remember that Cassie is visibly pregnant. Her husband -- they want her husband in the courtroom to show that she has now moved past, that she is in a loving relationship.
And that is possible only because that she is now in a consensual and healthy relationship. But one of the things that they're also going to try to prove is that she was consenting and that she stayed in this relationship.
But one thing I have not heard people talk about is the Stockholm syndrome, where people, where the victims often identify with their abusers, right? So they -- it happens a lot in child abuse cases. So they're going to try and say that she consents. It's important to say, no, what did the defendant do to make her feel like that she could not leave the relationship?
BROWN: And that's actually a really interesting point that she just made there, because we know right now the government is questioning her.
But the defense has actually owned that Combs has engaged in domestic abuse. And so how could that feed in to what she -- Lisa just laid out there and sort of that dynamic that can happen in a relationship?
WILLIAMS: Right.
The defense just has to get in some jurors' mind that what we're -- what we saw here was not forced and fraud or coercion, maybe just people with pretty wild sexual desires who were beating each other up. Now, that sort of defies logic, but that's part of the art and the act of criminal defense, planting doubt in jurors' minds.
BROWN: Right. And we know right here, you can -- everyone can see it on their screen she was asked when she knew Combs.
She said: "We were in a relationship over a little over 10 years." So, clearly, the government is trying to establish the relationship and what happened over the course of those several years.
And to you, Lisa, we had a man who was described as a male escort testify and say Combs paid him thousands of dollars to have sex with Ventura. He took the stand yesterday and today. His testimony was graphic, at times disturbing. How do you think these kinds of details impact a jury?
BONNER: Well, it's very interesting, because they are very graphic and detailed and disturbing to jurors. And his children actually even walked out, because it shows that this is really very upsetting testimony.
So you need to be careful in terms of really trying to frame the narrative in a way that does not overcompensate or overplay the video, for example, so you neutralize the jury in terms of that, getting them used to seeing this violence. But they are going to also have other people to come in and corroborate from Combs' -- Combs Enterprise.
And that was actually the name of his -- several of his companies, his holding company, that they were paid in the course of their employment to arrange these freak-offs, to clean up these freak-offs. So those are things that you're going to have really rely -- the government is going to have to rely on.
Listen, if you want to have a sexual, swinging relationship that defies the norm, that's your business. But he used his enterprises, his companies, Bad Boy Records, Ciroc, his recording studios, in order to procure these people, use his employees in order to facilitate these freak-offs, and also hold her hostage when she tried to leave.
So this is going to be a very interesting case. And I do -- dare say that the video is going to be the least of Combs' problems when they bring in other people to testify who have worked for him and who know what he has done in the -- as his boss, as their boss.
BLITZER: And, Lisa, we're getting more information now coming in from our reporters who are inside the courtroom. They're not allowing -- this is a federal trial, so there's no video or audio live coverage allowed.
But we're getting reports from our reporters inside. And under questioning from the prosecution, Cassie Ventura said some arguments -- some arguments between her and Combs would be violent and result in -- quote -- "some sort of physical abuse."
What do you make of that?
BONNER: Well, again, the domestic violence, the defense has owned it. They have set that out. And they are trying to say, listen, we are not here to litigate a
domestic violence case. This is turning on consent. In any sexual relationship, consent is explicit. She did not -- at one point -- at what point did she no longer consent to being in this relationship? How did he -- Combs, how did he use his influence, his sphere of influence, to manipulate her, to blackmail her into staying?
He paid all of her bills. He -- she never put out another record after the first record that he was released. And that was a carrot that they continued -- that he continuously dangled in front of her face to try and get her and manipulate her into staying. Again, this was through his business.
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And that is what the prosecution has to hone in on and really have people to testify to that, that there was -- there was not consent and that he did use people under his employ to facilitate this relationship.
BROWN: Elliot, I want to bring you in on this point that Combs arrived in court yesterday holding a Bible. He was seeing reading passages during opening statements.
Why does the defense want the jury to see that?
WILLIAMS: Oh, absolutely.
Now, the court, the whole process is designed around giving the defendant a fair trial. That's how the judge rules. Now, both parties are doing things to ensure that their side of the case looks better. And it is in a defendant's interest to be seen reading the Bible. This happens all throughout trials.
So, for instance, can the defendant come in wearing a prison jumpsuit? This was something that they debated prior to the trial. Can he have dyed hair? As you notice, some of the courtroom drawings have noticed, his hair is died. How does that change how the jury sees him and how they may regard the things he says?
There was even a fight or a debate over, can the jury see Cassie Ventura walking into the courtroom because she is seven or eight months pregnant right now? How will that affect how the jury regards her testimony? And judges are constantly having to resolve questions like this.
Now, nothing precludes a defendant from reading a Bible. There's nothing wrong with it, but certainly it was a deliberate choice,I think it's fair to say, by the defense team to have jurors see this person who's accused of horrific acts reading a Bible.
BLITZER: It's interesting.
Johnson, the prosecution -- the prosecutor, asked Cassie Ventura how frequently Combs was physical with her during their relationship. And she replied: "Too frequently." So, that's pretty damning the way she's testifying right now on behalf of the prosecution.
WILLIAMS: Right, absolutely. However, I guarantee you, Wolf, on cross-examination, one of the first questions, if not a major question, is, Ms. Ventura, did you ever strike Mr. Combs?
And they will try to establish that, over the course of this relationship, there was mutual violence back and forth. Now, again, that sort of strains common sense. Everybody saw that video on the first day of trial. However, the defense is going to suggest and they have made quite clear that this was a mutually violent relationship.
BLITZER: And Cassie Ventura just said -- and we're getting this from our reporters inside the courtroom -- that she suffered injuries from the abuse, including knots on her forehead, busted lips, and "bruises all over my body," her words.
WILLIAMS: Yes, and, again, everybody, the public and every juror, saw that video. It is hard to deny that on at least one occasion there was clear physical violence from Sean Combs to Cassie Ventura.
Now, the question is how successfully can the defense try to make -- because there's no video, at least as far as we know right now -- how successfully can the defense make the case that, no, she hit him back too? It happens in domestic violence cases all the time.
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BROWN: So, clearly, though, the overall strategy here, Lisa, is pretty much right off the bat the government is trying to get to the relationship between Combs and Ventura and the domestic abuse part of it.
And now they're pulling up a still of the -- of course, from that surveillance footage from the hotel incident where you see Combs beating her up. They clearly want to drive home a message here to the jury, right?
BONNER: Correct.
And, again, I want to underscore that this case is not about domestic violence. This case is about consent. This case is about him using his sphere of influence and his employees, his friends, his family even to really make Cassie and other people participate in these freak-offs.
Again, he lured people, allegedly lured people into recording contracts, modeling contracts for Sean John and others to make sure, and dangling the carrot again, to make sure that, hey, come on and join Combs Enterprises and I will give you a recording contract. I will -- I will put you as one of my models in Sean John.
All that -- that's fine. But when you turn that into a situation where you are blackmailed into staying and your consent is removed and you are using your business enterprises to facilitate your personal gain, that is when it turns on the linchpin of the case, which is RICO, that you are using a business to further these illicit gains.
BROWN: Right.
And so it is interesting, though, that even the domestic abuse isn't part of the charges at play here.
BLITZER: The federal charges.
BROWN: The federal charges, of course.
BONNER: It's a federal charge.
BROWN: Right. Exactly. The government is still using this to try to draw out this bigger picture of how that played into consent versus coercion.
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And, as you pointed out, Elliot, they're going to take different tacks. The defense will say, well, this was both sides, right?
But, right now, Ventura has testified that she -- about the freak-off parties that we have been talking about. She said she couldn't remember where the name freak-off came from, but said Combs introduced it to her. So they're starting to talk about that.
And whether or not to release video of the freak-off parties is sort of one of the big hang-ups right here, right?
WILLIAMS: Right, and because, obviously, the footage, any sort of footage of people engaged in such acts is going to be incredibly troubling for many people to see.
Now, there are any number of First Amendment media organizations that believe that it's in the public interest. Good government he believes in the public interest for evidence in courts, as the Constitution required, to be made public.
To another point you had made a moment ago, Pam, about sort of the bigger picture here, in terms of Sean Combs setting up these freak- offs, that itself is also an element of what he's been charged with, being the person who not just engaged in actions, but drove or was aware that people under him were actually setting them up and paying for the sex workers, getting the baby oil even, and all of those things, to facilitate this kind of conduct.
BROWN: And I just want to go back to you, Lisa, because -- and I want to make clear this idea that the government is pushing, the prosecution, that Combs was using his own enterprises and businesses to further the scheme, those are all allegations from the government.
And the defense is saying that's not true. The defense is saying, look, he may have engaged in bad behavior, he may have engaged in domestic abuse -- that video is really disturbing from the hotel -- but he was not part of this racketeering scheme, he is not a sex trafficker, and he should not be found guilty on that. Do you think that that's a compelling argument for the jury?
BONNER: Well, I mean, what else does the defense have to really offer? I mean, the fact that, one, they have already owned the domestic violence, and so that is something that they have already owned.
But the other allegations against Combs in terms of the RICO charge, we have R. Kelly, who was convicted just across the river in the Eastern District of New York, of very similar RICO charges. And so what they are, again, alleging is the fact that he used his businesses to lure people into a recording contract in Cassie Ventura's case, and then basically had that over her head in terms of a carrot, and never released another album after her initial single that was released.
And they are alleging again that this was done against her will. The defense really does not have any other alternative except to own this and to say, no, that my -- this was a legitimate business. But it's important also to remember that a RICO case does not have to -- the criminal enterprise does not have to exist solely for the purposes of a company.
It could be a part of the company. And so that is important to remember in all of these allegations in terms of RICO. They need to establish that it is a conspiracy, that he used his company to lure these people. And these are very damning allegations.
BROWN: Right. And we're just reading some of what's coming in from the courtroom.
And, at one part -- and this sort of goes to your point earlier, Lisa -- she said, look, I was confused. I loved him. I just wanted to make him happy. I was nervous, all of those feelings.
And we don't have the full context around that. But, of course, we know, prior to that, they were talking about the relationship and the alleged violence that occurred there.
All right, Lisa Bonner, Elliot Williams, thank you so much.
We will be right back.
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BLITZER: We're, of course, continuing to monitor the Sean "Diddy" Combs trial, and we will update you with all the late-breaking developments.
But there's other important news we're following right now as well, including, new this morning, President Trump is in the Middle East working to try to shore up relations with a trio of key Arab allies and prove his might as a dealmaker on the world stage.
BROWN: Soon, the president will speak to U.S. and Saudi investors in Riyadh, the first stop of a Gulf visit that will also take him to Qatar and the United Arab Emirates.
Tesla CEO Elon Musk and other U.S. business leaders have also received the Saudis' royal welcome.
BLITZER: Let's go live right now to our chief national affairs correspondent, Jeff Zeleny, who's traveling with the president in Riyadh right now.
Jeff, walk us through the president's trip and his goals.
JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, President Trump receiving a lavish welcome here to the kingdom of Saudi Arabia, his first return visit effectively back to the world stage since he has returned to power in January.
And he chose the Middle East for a reason, for this type of warm reception. And this is one of a dealmaking mission, much more than a geopolitical trip to deal with the intense challenges of the region and indeed the world.
But the president will be speaking shortly at this Saudi-U.S. investment forum. Many American CEOs are here in Saudi Arabia. They lined up quite literally to shake the hands of the two leaders. But the president also met with the Saudi crown prince and thanked him for his investment in the United States.
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DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We know that you're purchasing planes. You're purchasing a lot of type of things.
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And I appreciate it. And you said, you think $600 billion, but $600 billion, knowing you, will be a trillion dollars. You will try and get us there. And that would be great.
MOHAMMED BIN SALMAN, SAUDI ARABIAN CROWN PRINCE: (OFF-MIKE)
TRUMP: I very much appreciate it.
BIN SALMAN: (OFF-MIKE)
TRUMP: Yes. No, I very much appreciate it. We have -- as you know, we have the biggest business leaders in the world here today. And they are going to walk away with a lot of checks for a lot of things that you're going to provide.
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ZELENY: So there's no doubt that there is significant investment coming from this. Much of it has already been announced. It is very much unclear, however, if the president will reach a goal that he talks about often of $1 trillion in investment through the duration of his week here in the Middle East.
But, again, he will be speaking shortly to investment leaders here in Riyadh before going on to the rest of his trip, Wolf.
BLITZER: All right, Jeff Zeleny reporting live from Riyadh in Saudi Arabia, thank you very, very much.
Up next: After decades behind bars, the Menendez brothers could finally win their freedom -- details on the resentencing hearing that's kicking off next hour.
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