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The Situation Room
Science of Animal Organ Transplants; President Trump Visits Middle East; Interview With Los Angeles, California, District Attorney Nathan Hochman. Aired 11:30a-12p ET
Aired May 13, 2025 - 11:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: Happening now, the Menendez brothers are preparing to return to court for a resentencing hearing that could set them free.
Lyle and Erik Menendez are serving life sentences after being convicted of their parents' murder in 1989. Family members argued for the brothers' release based in part on a new assessment of childhood sexual abuse by their father. Last fall, L.A.'s district attorney at the time, George Gascon, made headlines when he recommended a resentencing for the brothers. But his successor, Nathan Hochman, is fighting against it.
And with us now is the Los Angeles district attorney, Nathan Hochman, himself.
First off, why are you opposed to the resentencing of the Menendez brothers?
NATHAN HOCHMAN, LOS ANGELES COUNTY, CALIFORNIA, DISTRICT ATTORNEY: So our position is not never. It's not yet.
What we have said is that the Menendez brothers have still not ever come clean with all the lies, the deceit and the cover-up that they have engaged in for over 35 years. Primarily, they said that they had a self-defense defense. They believed that their mother and their father were going to kill them the night of August 20, 1989, so they had to shoot them first.
We have shown through an extensive evaluation of the facts that that's a complete lie. They had a preplanned alibi. They bought shotguns two days before. And they made the hit with 13 shotgun blasts look like a mafia killing, which they claimed it to be right afterwards by shooting the father through the back of the head, the mother through a point-blank-range shot to her cheek while she lies dying on the ground, and then through the kneecaps after they were dead.
Then they methodically got rid of the evidence. So we said that, for the last 30 years, they have not come clean. If and when they do come clean, they will be ready for to be both rehabilitated and be resentenced.
BROWN: As you well know, the family members say they have been rehabilitated. They called for their early release, citing sexual abuse as a mitigating factor. They point to what they have done behind bars, noting they founded a long list of prison programs, including ones for elderly and disabled inmates.
I know, as part of this investigation, you have talked to them. You have called the conversations very productive. Why was that not enough to move you here?
HOCHMAN: So, the Menendez brothers are definitely on the path for resentencing. They have been very productive while in prison.
But there's a recent case that Governor Newsom dealt with involving the killer Sirhan Sirhan. That's the killer of Robert F. Kennedy, who also is 77 years old. He was -- he had done all the rehab programs. He had been in prison for 54 years. The governor said that, notwithstanding all those pro-parole factors, the fact that Sirhan Sirhan had not shown complete insight into his crimes was a over -- was a factor that outweighed all the other factors.
Similarly, we have the situation here with the Menendez brothers that, though they have a lot of pro-resentencing factors, the fact that they have not completely come clean with their entire criminal conduct is what stands in their way. In fact, most recently, the parole board issued comprehensive risk assessments, which raised their risk level from the lowest risk level to the moderate risk level, based on recent deceit that they have had while in prison over the last year.
BROWN: I want to ask you about these new pieces of information that may be considered in their case. One is this letter Erik Menendez wrote to his cousin where he described sexual abuse by his father. And there is also an accusation that the father sexually abused a band member who their father had a connection to.
Why don't you think those pieces of information should be used in the resentencing trial? Do you think that they're relevant?
HOCHMAN: So they actually brought those pieces of information to be used in a habeas position to get a new trial.
And what's very important to understand about the sexual abuse evidence is that, when Menendez brothers each took the stand during their trials and were asked, did you kill your parents, your mom and your dad because they sexually abused you, the answer was actually no.
What they said is the reason that they killed their parents is they thought their parents were going to kill them that night, so they killed them ahead of time. And that defense, we have shown is a complete fabrication. It's one the Menendez brothers have never come clean with over the last 30 years.
[11:35:07] And if and when they do come clean and fully admit all the breadth of their criminal conduct, at that point, we will change our opinion on resentencing. And, ultimately, it's the judge that makes the final call.
BROWN: Forgive my ignorance about this, but I just wonder, have you made attempts to talk to them, talking them directly? How do you know that they aren't acknowledging some of what happened and what you're laying out there?
HOCHMAN: So, the Menendez -- I have not spoken directly with the Menendez brothers, but I have read everything that they have written. I have seen every statement they have given to the TV and whatnot.
Recently, in a 2024 Netflix documentary, Erik Menendez said, still proclaimed that he had a self-defense defense as to why he shot his parents, persisting in a lie that has existed over 30 years. So, again, the Menendezes have had numerous chances to come clean with all their actions.
And if and when they do, they will be ready for resentencing. We're just not there yet.
BROWN: Los Angeles district attorney Nathan Hochman, thank you so much. We appreciate it.
And we are also, for our audience, you need to know we're following the case of the testimony of Cassie Ventura in the trial of Sean "Diddy" Combs.
We're going to get another update after this break.
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WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: All right, let's get back to one of our top stories, President Trump's trip to the Middle East, where he's looking to try to shore up relations with some of the world's wealthiest nations.
Right now, the president is speaking with investors in Saudi Arabia before heading off to Qatar and the United Arab Emirates. I want to listen in right now.
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DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: ... created 464,000 brand-new jobs. Think of that, almost a half-a-million jobs created just in a matter of weeks.
We just reached a historic trade agreement with the United Kingdom. And, over the weekend, we reached a breakthrough agreement with China, both outstanding deals. China's agreed. We have to get it down. We have to get the little details down. And, Scott, you're going to work on that very hard, but China's agreed to open up to the United States for trade and everything else.
But they have to do it, so we will see what happens. But we had a very, very good meeting with both of those countries. We are cutting 10 old regulations for every new regulation. We're getting rid of all of the red tape that is -- so many, frankly, countries as they get older, they develop a lot of red tape. And we're getting rid of it. We're getting rid of it at record levels.
And I'm pleased to report that the United States Congress is on the verge of passing the largest tax cut and regulation cut in American history. We think we're in good shape to get that. And if we get that, that will be like a rocket ship for our country.
In the first quarter of the year, the investment in America was up an astounding 22 percent. More than $10 trillion of new investments have been announced or are coming just since the election on November 5. So think of that. In a very short period of time, we have over $10 trillion. And it could be much higher than that.
Not everybody comes to the White House to have a news conference that they're going to be opening up in America. But they're all coming in at numbers that we have never seen before.
If you take a look at other presidencies, they wouldn't do $1 trillion sometime in years. We did this in essentially two months, because you have to say we got into office and they gave me about a month to clean up and fix up the Oval Office. And, after that, we started working. And we -- the money is pouring in, the jobs are pouring in, the companies are pouring into our country like we have never seen before.
There's never been anything like it. And we let other people tariff us into losing a lot of money and a lot of jobs. And now we're tariffing them. And it's at a level that nobody's seen. It's a level that is making us a very much different country and a very different Republican Party.
We won a tremendous victory in November. We won all seven swing states, the popular vote by millions and millions of votes. The Electoral College, we won by 312 to 226. Remember they said, well, we could get to 270. No, we got to 312. That's a big difference.
And, very importantly, we won counties throughout the United States, 2,660 to 451. That's why, when you look at a map, they're all red. It's all -- the whole country is red. Red stands for Republican. From the moment on and from the moment we started, we have seen wealth that just poured and is pouring back into America.
Apple is investing $500 billion. Nvidia is investing. And I see my friend is here. Jensen, that's very good, wherever you may be.
BLITZER: All right, we're going to continue to monitor what President Trump is saying in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, at this conference.
But, right now, I want to get some serious analysis from CNN's Fareed Zakaria.
Fareed, what is the significance of President Trump choosing the Middle East for this, his first major foreign trip of his second term?
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FAREED ZAKARIA, CNN WORLD AFFAIRS ANALYST: Well, I think it tells against the President Trump views foreign policy largely through the prism of economic statecraft, of doing economic deals.
And he's very comfortable with the Gulf. He's very comfortable with Saudi Arabia. And it is, after all, where the money is. And so I think he thought he could get -- first of all, he's got very good relations with MBS, the crown prince of Saudi Arabia. And he thought he could get some big deals announced.
So it's -- I think it's as simple as that.
BLITZER: What's the message he's sending by visiting three major Arab countries, Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, and Qatar, but avoiding any visit to Israel?
ZAKARIA: I don't think one should draw too much, too great a lesson out of that, because I think, as I say, the idea is focus on deals, focus on the economics.
But it's probably noteworthy that he and MBS are now really on the same page, not just economically, but strategically, because the really big story here is, Saudi Arabia has emerged as a very powerful and stabilizing force in the region. Mohammed bin Salman, the crown prince of Saudi Arabia, has really become a force for stability in the region.
He has been very, very careful and thoughtful about de-escalating his war with Yemen, about building better ties with Qatar. There was a period where there was a lot of rash and reckless foreign policy coming out of Saudi Arabia. Now you have the opposite. You have very calm, stable, moderate foreign policy.
And, in fact, even on Iran, which has been Saudi Arabia's sworn enemy, the Saudis are making overtures to try to again calm the situation down, because Mohammed bin Salman has realized his main goal is to modernize Saudi Arabia, to take Saudi Arabia from the G20 into potentially the G7 or 8 or 9.
And if you're going to do that, you need peace and stability. You need calm in the region. And Trump also thinks in very similar ways. So, I think it's more a move that suggests the importance of Saudi Arabia, rather than the lack of importance of Israel.
BLITZER: And I think it's significant, Fareed, and correct me if I'm wrong, that, on this visit, the president is going to be announcing major weapons sales to Saudi Arabia, very sophisticated weapons, including some potential nuclear capabilities to Saudi Arabia.
The assumption always was that the U.S. would go forward with these kinds of deals and that the Saudis, in exchange, would agree to join the Abraham Accords and make peace with Israel, establish full diplomatic relations with Israel, as several other Arab countries in the region have already done.
Doesn't it look like that's about to happen, any Saudi deal to go ahead with the Abraham Accords. What's your analysis?
ZAKARIA: I think you have it 100 percent right.
They -- because of Israel's operations in Gaza, because of the continuation of those operations, and the fact that, really, the Netanyahu government seems determined to continue, probably largely because Bibi Netanyahu's government would fall if he were to try to make some kind of political settlement, because he would lose the most right-wing members of his government.
What that means is that the Saudis feel like there's no path for them to move forward on normalization, because they wanted some substantive moves toward a Palestinian state. And I think it also suggests American frustration. You now have Steve Witkoff saying the Israeli government doesn't want to stop this war. That's why we're not getting the hostages back.
So there seems to be a fair amount of frustration with Bibi Netanyahu, Netanyahu's government. So, in a way, Saudi Arabia and the United States are kind of moving forward and moving ahead. That's going to make it harder for Saudi normalization with Israel, because, as you say, these were the prizes that the United States was going to give Saudi Arabia in return for normalizing relations with Israel.
If it starts to give MBS the prizes anyway, well, MBS has less investment and less need to have normal relations with Israel. He's already got what he was looking for, which was never something from Israel. It was always the thing he wanted was from the United States.
BLITZER: And you make an important point, because, for years, the Saudis have always said to be at the highest levels they're ready to establish relations with Israel and work towards some sort of peace agreement and join the Abraham Accords, but they want Israel first to accept what's called a two-state solution, a new state of Palestine living alongside Israel.
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And, clearly, the Netanyahu government is not ready to make that concession at this point and accept a new Palestinian state. That's what the Saudis say. You want diplomatic relations with Saudi Arabia, move towards a two-state solution, but the Israeli government under Prime Minister Netanyahu is not yet ready for that.
Fareed Zakaria, thanks so much for joining us.
And we will be right back with more news.
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BROWN: In his latest documentary, "Animal Farm," our chief medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, investigates what may sound like science fiction, xenotransplant. It is the practice of transplanting animal organs into humans. With
more than 100,000 people on the wait-list for transplants, experts say this could revolutionize organ donation. And as part of his reporting, Sanjay interviews the only person in the world currently living with a pig kidney.
Take a look.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are, of course, being just extra careful and cautious and ensuring things are in the right direction.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And the little pig is right there, so I can pat it.
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): But today's visit is all about this moment.
(on camera): Observing this ultrasound, that is an ultrasound of a pig kidney inside Tim, something that very few people ever get to see.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And it looks exactly like a human kidney, so -- and we will see all the blood flow throughout. So...
GUPTA: Is there anything in there that makes it clear that it's a pig kidney?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, exactly like a human one.
GUPTA (voice-over): And not only does it look like one. Eight weeks postoperatively, it's acting like one.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The level of kidney function is as good as we would expect from a human kidney transplant.
We just are amazed every day we look at that blood work.
GUPTA (on camera): That's awesome.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Good stuff, isn't it?
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GUPTA (voice-over): Now, there is one complication they're watching for very carefully, something that is unique to xenotransplants, and could affect not only Tim, but his wife, Karen, as well, maybe all of us.
(on camera): One of the concerns is that if there is some sort of weird or strange virus in the pig and it gets into the human population through one of these transplants, might not only affect the patient, but people around the patient as well.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In all the studies that we're doing, we're not only monitoring the patient, but their close contacts.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Because we don't know to this day and we won't know for the rest of my life whether that can happen. So that's always in the background.
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BROWN: All right, Dr. Sanjay Gupta joins us now.
So, how did they make the pigs compatible for humans? It just struck me that he said it looks exactly like -- the kidney looks exactly like a human one.
GUPTA: Yes.
Yes, by the way, this -- how cool is our job, right?
BROWN: Right. I was just thinking that, actually.
GUPTA: I get to see something that I have never done before. Very few people ever get to see this. This is brand-new science.
They use something known as CRISPR, which is a gene editing technology. It's kind of remarkable that human genome, pig genome, they're not that different. So, by making some changes, knocking out some genes in the pig genome, adding a couple of genes from the humans, you can actually make pigs very compatible for human transplantation.
They essentially become these universal donors. So it's something that we have talked about for a long time, gene editing, but as a result of what is happening in the transplant world, you're really seeing it come to fruition.
BLITZER: And, Sanjay, why pigs and not another animal?
GUPTA: You know, I think there's practical reasons. One is that, just size-wise, the organs in pigs are a pretty good match for humans. So the kidneys, hearts, even lungs, pretty good size. They also have a relatively short gestation, pigs typically four weeks of -- I'm sorry -- four months of pregnancy.
You have several pigs, piglets, so you can get a larger supply of organs potentially. But, also, Wolf, and this will be a little counterintuitive, but, evolutionarily, pigs are very different than humans. And you might think of that as a negative thing, but when it comes to potential viruses that you heard the doctors just talking about, you're going to get less likely to have a transfer if they're evolutionarily that different.
So there's all these different reasons, but pigs is sort of where they landed.
BLITZER: Amazing stuff, indeed. So happy you're covering this for us, Sanjay. Thank you very, very much.
GUPTA: You got it.
BLITZER: And, to our viewers, scan the Q.R. code on your screen and head to CNN.com to send in your questions about the future of organ transplants. Dr. Gupta will be back to answer them tomorrow. And don't forget to tune in to see Dr. Sanjay Gupta's report. It airs Sunday night 8:00 p.m. Eastern only here on CNN.
And thanks very much for joining us this morning. You can keep up with us on social media @WolfBlitzer and @PamelaBrownCNN. We will see you back here tomorrow morning 10:00 a.m. Eastern.
BROWN: "INSIDE POLITICS" with Manu Raju is next after a short break.