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The Situation Room

Interview With Rep. Hakeem Jeffries (D-NY); Science of Animal Organ Transplants; Trump Under Fire Over Qatar Jet; Trump Administration Targets Judge Over Obstruction Charges. Aired 11:30a- 12p ET

Aired May 14, 2025 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:30:00]

PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: CNN correspondent Tom Foreman is here to break down what it would take to overhaul the jet so that it could be used by the U.S. government.

And it's not cheap, Tom.

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: No, it's not. And the short answer is, it would take a lot.

Let's look at the capabilities of this unique plane, maybe the most unique aircraft in this country. Look, it has to have highly secure communication systems that nobody can hack into, nobody can read. It needs to have defensive systems to avoid missiles that might be fired at it or any other kind of weapons, the ability to shield against electromagnetic pulse.

What that means is every wire in this plane has to be shielded in such a way that it can't be taken out from without, and the capability to refuel in flight. Remember, George W. Bush operated from this plane on 9/11, because that's what you do to make sure you have a safe command center in the sky.

Doing all of that on a plane of any sort, but particularly one that's been gifted to you from another country, where -- and security analysts say you basically have to take the whole thing apart and put it back together to make sure there are no bugs, no built-in failures that have been put in there, could take up to two years.

Now, remember, there are new Air Force Ones on the way that Donald Trump negotiated. They are on the way. Will they be done in time for him to use? We don't know, but presidents don't do it for themselves. They do it for the next president, for the country. Up to two years to do that.

And in that time, here's the really key part to bear in mind. Making all of those changes to this free gift is estimated to cost maybe three times as much as the value of the free gift. And then allegedly this goes to his private presidential library, his presidential library.

In other words, for this free plane, American taxpayers may pay an additional $800 million for two years of use, two years because this president, I mean, because he says he's been made this offer, and he doesn't want to wait for the planes that we're already paying for to get ready.

That are -- those are a lot of practical reasons why people who may say politically they like him, they don't like him, they agree with him, they don't agree with him, may say, why are you taking this supposed free gift when there are huge ethical questions about it and a lot of practical and financial questions too?

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Excellent report.

Tom Foreman, thank you very, very much -- Pam.

BROWN: Well, Wolf, a Milwaukee County circuit judge is facing federal charges after being accused of helping an undocumented immigrant evade federal agents.

Judge Hannah Dugan was indicted on charges of obstruction and concealing an individual from arrest. Witnesses reportedly told investigators that Dugan advised the man, who was a defendant in her courtroom, and his attorney to leave through a jury door after she had a confrontation with ICE agents stationed outside her courtroom.

The undocumented immigrant was later arrested outside. And the judge, we should note, importantly, has maintained her innocence throughout this.

So I want to bring in CNN's chief legal affairs correspondent, Paula Reid.

Paula, what has the reaction been to this indictment?

PAULA REID, CNN CHIEF LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Pamela, in a statement, her lawyer insists that she will assert her innocence and looks forward to being vindicated in court.

Now, she is expected back in court on Thursday. She made her initial court appearance back in April. She was released on her own recognizance, but, after that appearance, the Wisconsin Supreme Court ruled at the end of April she would be temporarily prohibited from exercising the powers of a circuit court judge as this controversial case moves through the court system.

They said it is in the public interest that she be temporarily relieved of her official duties. This was in a two-page order. So we expect her back in court tomorrow, but this is certainly a case to watch. A lot of questions about whether this is something that they can successfully prove in court or if this is symptomatic of a weaponization of justice to try to intimidate judges.

This is one that we're watching really closely in the next couple of months.

BROWN: I also want to turn to news coming out of Capitol Hill. What are you hearing about this House Judiciary Committee hearing with Jay Bratt? That was one of the key federal prosecutors in the classified documents case against President Trump.

REID: That's exactly right. He's making an appearance today before the House Judiciary Committee.

Now, he has released a statement. His spokesman has released a statement noting that Jay Bratt has dedicated his life to public service, spending more than three decades protecting our nation from some of the gravest national security threats. He's saying he did not choose to investigate Mar-a-Lago.

"Rather, the facts and the evidence of a serious breach of law and national security led him there."

Now, a source tells me this hearing is still going on, but he has invoked his Fifth Amendment right. And his lawyers, his team is arguing that he has to do that, given the highly politicized nature of this review of the actions that he took while he was working as a prosecutor on this case.

BROWN: All right, Paula Reid, thanks so much -- Wolf.

BLITZER: And coming up: Can you imagine replacing one of your organs with an organ from an animal?

[11:35:05]

Up next, we're answering your questions about the experimental new procedure and how it could save potentially your life.

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BLITZER: It might sound like something out of a sci-fi novel, but transplanting animal organs into humans is an experimental technique that potentially could reshape modern medicine.

BROWN: CNN's chief medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, has been reporting on this potentially revolutionary procedure.

It's really incredible what it can do.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes.

BROWN: And he's today answering your questions about organ transplants.

So I want to go live now to you, Sanjay, and get to the first question here.

[11:40:01]

GUPTA: OK.

BROWN: We have this one from Paul Mcintosh, who asked: "Over the past two decades, work was happening in the area of using one's cell makeup to create an organ in the lab."

GUPTA: Yes.

BROWN: "Is this still an approach being considered?"

GUPTA: Yes.

So, and Paul's received two transplants, it sounds like. This is an approach that's being considered. And let me explain it to you like this. It's a little different than xenotransplants, which we are talking about, where you genetically modify a pig, making it more compatible for humans.

With what Paul's talking about specifically is, they take organs and they essentially take away all these cells from that organ. So all you're left with is the scaffolding of the organ, just basically the framework of the organ. And then they take your cells, or whoever needs the organ transplant, and they repopulate that scaffolding.

So, essentially you're making a very personalized organ for the recipient. So that's incredible technology. You wouldn't need to take any anti-rejection medications, because that organ would essentially be your own tissue. It would be made just for you. That's a while away still.

And that's why people are focused on xenotransplants now, because this is a solution that could offer -- offer help more soon -- quickly.

BLITZER: And that help is desperately needed by so many people out there.

Our next question, Sanjay, is from Ann in Kansas, and she writes this: "How many pig kidneys have they transplanted into people? And has anyone lived long term with those kidneys? Also, is the rejection medication different?"

GUPTA: So the answer to the first part of the question is four. There have been four pig kidneys that have been transplanted into humans at this point, four people in the entire world. So this is still very new technology.

One thing to keep in mind when you look at these sorts of transplants and these sorts of technologies is that the first people who get these types of transplants are people who are very sick, often used as a compassionate use sort of transplant. So the expectation was that this was not going to be a long-term survival proposition for them.

The longest survival right now is 130 days. Someone you're going to meet in the documentary is someone who's had a transplant now for close to that length and is still doing really well. So I think they're going to keep pushing back the amount of time.

And, finally, with regard to rejection medications, very similar to human transplant rejection medicines, but a little bit higher in dose overall. That's what they're finding so far.

BROWN: Well, we hope that patient continues to be doing well over 130 days. GUPTA: Yes.

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: Wow.

There's also many people, like Alia in Kuwait, who wanted to know: "How far are we from this being a solution to the organ crisis?"

GUPTA: If I had to answer simply, I'd say around five years. And the reason I say that is because I asked everybody, scientists from all over the world, that same question. About five years.

It's going into clinical trials now. We will see what those trials show, but there's been a lot of good data already. So I think people are very optimistic about these trials. It takes a while to sort of collect that data and then make that more widely available.

What is interesting is that these farms that I showed you guys yesterday, they're starting to pop up all over the country, all over the world. And they are these pathogen-free farms, where they're basically raising a lot of pigs indoors to potentially be a supply of organs.

So, if you have farms like this in probably cities all across America or around the world, you might start to get more and more organs. Keep in mind 100,000 people, many of them waiting for kidneys.

BROWN: Wow. Dr. Sanjay Gupta, really fascinating. Thank you so much.

GUPTA: Yes.

BROWN: You can see Dr. Gupta's new documentary on animal transplants this weekend. "Animal Farm" airs Sunday night at 8:00 Eastern and Pacific only on CNN.

BLITZER: Up next, we will be joined by the Democratic House leader, Hakeem Jeffries, as lawmakers are working to try to pass key pieces of President Trump's agenda.

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[11:48:05]

BLITZER: Turning back now to the very contentious budget battle here in Washington, Republicans remain sharply divided over funding key pieces of President Trump's agenda, as Democrats hammer them for proposing major cuts to Medicaid.

For more on that, I want to bring in the House minority leader, the Democratic Congressman Hakeem Jeffries.

Congressman, thanks so much for joining us.

From your vantage point, do you think Republicans have the votes to get these important pieces of legislation through committee and onto the House floor?

REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES (D-NY): Well, that remains to be seen.

House Democrats are going to continue to stand up on behalf of the American people and make clear that what Republicans are trying to do will actively harm everyday Americans. This reckless Republican budget would inflict the largest health care cut to Medicaid in American history, and at the same time inflict the largest cut to supplemental nutritional assistance to the American people in history, literally taking food out of the mouths of children, veterans and seniors.

It's shameful, and Republicans need to stand up for their constituents and stop being a reckless rubber stamp for Donald Trump's agenda.

BLITZER: And, on that point, Leader Jeffries, how does it -- what does it say to you that many of these proposed Medicaid cuts in the current proposal are scheduled to take effect after the 2026 midterm elections?

JEFFRIES: Well, once you set these cuts in motion, there will be a dramatic impact on the health care ecosystem.

And so, despite the Republican gamesmanship, the reality is, if you begin to set in motion collapsing the health care system in the United States of America and more than 80 million Americans rely on Medicaid for their health insurance, what's going to happen is that hospitals are going to close, nursing homes are going to shut down, and, in fact, people will die.

[11:50:07]

And so this is a matter of life and death, no matter what type of legislative gamesmanship Republicans are playing. They can't defend these Medicaid cuts. And that is why they are trying everything they can to try to hide them from the American people.

BLITZER: Republicans, Leader Jeffries, say they can save a significant amount of money by cutting Medicaid funding to those states that help undocumented immigrants purchase health insurance.

What's your position that proposal? And if Democrats try to fight that proposal, do you worry it could open up your members to Republican attacks that they support tax dollars, U.S. tax dollars, going to people who are in the United States illegally?

JEFFRIES: This is actually another lie in terms of what Republicans are trying to do.

The Congressional Budget Office has been clear that, if these Medicaid cuts would have become law, approximately 14 million Americans will lose their health care. And the Republicans aren't even trying to make the argument that the overwhelming majority of those 14 million Americans aren't actually citizens. Of course they are.

These are everyday Americans who work hard. They're our children and our families and our women and everyday Americans with disabilities, and, of course, those seniors who rely on Medicaid for their nursing home care or for their home care.

BLITZER: Another key disagreement, as you know, is among Republicans. A disagreement among Republicans is what to do about state and local tax deductions that primarily benefit blue states out there.

You have called on letting the caps on those deductions expire altogether, but that would cost the government a significant amount of revenue. So where else would you find that money?

JEFFRIES: Well, one of the things that we should be doing is providing tax relief to working families, working-class Americans, middle-class Americans, those who have been struggling to live paycheck to paycheck.

Donald Trump and House Republicans spent all of last year promising that they were going to lower the high cost of living. In fact, they promised, Wolf, that costs would go down on day one. We know that's not happened. Costs, in fact, aren't going down. They're going up. Inflation is going up.

And Donald Trump, with his reckless tariffs, is actually crashing the economy and driving us toward a painful recession. And instead of trying to actually provide tax relief to help out those everyday Americans, to build an affordable economy, part of this GOP tax scam is to cut Medicaid, hurt veterans, cut nutritional assistance to families and children and others, all to give massive tax breaks to their billionaire donors like Elon Musk.

The more we expose this tax scam, the worse it gets for Republicans, which is why they are on the run. It's why they're not holding town hall meetings. And it's why they're trying to manipulate the facts and the reality of this toxic piece of legislation.

BLITZER: As you know, President Trump is in Qatar right now amid major bipartisan criticism over his plan to accept a luxury jet from that country.

Are you and your Republican colleagues in Congress taking any steps to try to stop the president of the United States from accepting this gift from Qatar?

JEFFRIES: Pursuant to the United States Constitution, it's our view that, in order for the president to accept this flying palace in the sky, a $400 million gift, which is a joke and an embarrassment, and it's malignant that it's even under consideration, but in order for the president to lawfully accept this flying palace in the sky, he has to come before Congress, pursuant to the Constitution, and ask permission to accept what is technically referred to as an emolument.

It's a fancy word for gift from a foreign power that the framers of the Constitution were very clear should never be accepted, or, if it is accepted, only with the permission of Congress.

BLITZER: In regards to the CBO, the Congressional Budget Office, each party asked the CBO to assess different combinations of the bill text. I just wanted to point that out, Congressman. You want to react to that?

JEFFRIES: Well, listen, I mean, I think the reality is, the Congressional Budget Office is a nonpartisan organization that was stood up in a bipartisan way by Democrats and Republicans for decades in order to provide us with an actual fact-based assessment of the legislation that we are considering.

[11:55:00]

And the Congressional Budget Office has made clear that these cuts will be devastating to the health, safety, and well-being of the American people. And the Republicans can try to run from that fact as much as they want. We will never let them hide it from the American people.

BLITZER: Before I let you go, Leader Jeffries, I want to quickly get your thoughts on this new book that's about to come out from CNN's Jake Tapper and Axios' Alex Thompson detailing President Biden's decline during his time in the White House.

According to one rather stunning passage from the book, President Biden didn't even recognize George Clooney at a fund-raiser the movie star was actually hosting for him. Why should voters trust Democrats when it's clear so many in your party went to great lengths to keep Biden's condition hidden, hidden from the public?

JEFFRIES: I can't tell you what happened between George Clooney and President Biden. I wasn't at that event.

What I can say is that we're not looking back. We're going to continue to look forward, because, at this moment, we have got real problems that need to be addressed on behalf of the American people, including the Republican effort to snatch away health care, snatch away food assistance, and hurt veterans.

BLITZER: You interacted with President Biden during those days, those final days he was president of the United States. Did you see, did you sense there was a major deterioration?

JEFFRIES: Well, in the conversations that I was able to have on behalf of the House Democratic Caucus in those final days, we simply expressed our perspective as to what would be best for the party at that given moment in time.

President Biden subsequently made the decision that he was going to pass the baton to Vice President Kamala Harris. Of course, that was a decision that we supported strongly.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: And just very quickly, I want to ask you, Congressman Jeffries. You say, we're not looking back, we're looking forward, but what happened in the past has to do with what's going to happen in the future, and whether voters can trust Democrats.

As you look back, you were in a leadership position when President Biden decided to run again. Should you have done more at that point to intervene? JEFFRIES: It's a great question in terms of whether voters can trust

Democrats or not.

Every single high-profile special election that has taken place since President Trump was inaugurated, a special election victory in Iowa in January, a special election victory in New York in February, a special election victory in Pennsylvania in March, a special election victory in Wisconsin in the Supreme Court race in April, and, yesterday, decisively defeating a Republican incumbent in Omaha in a surprise to many observers.

Clearly, voters are trusting Democrats this year, when they go to the ballot, repeatedly rejecting MAGA extremists.

BLITZER: Congressman Hakeem Jeffries, the Democratic leader in the House, thanks so much for joining us.

BROWN: Thank you very much.

JEFFRIES: Thank you.

BROWN: And thank you to all of our viewers for joining us this morning. We will see you back here tomorrow at 10:00 a.m. Eastern.

BLITZER: "INSIDE POLITICS," with Manu Raju today, is coming up next right after a short break.

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