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The Situation Room

Interview With Rep. Bryan Steil (R-WI); Congressional Stall?. Aired 11-11:30a ET

Aired May 21, 2025 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: Happening now, breaking news: Congressional stall? The hourslong debate over President Trump's sweeping legislative agenda is still going on, and it doesn't appear a deal is anywhere in sight.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Welcome to our viewers here in the United States and around the world. I'm Wolf Blitzer with Pamela Brown, and you're in THE SITUATION ROOM.

This hour, the -- several members of the House Freedom Caucus are speaking amid a marathon debate over President Trump's sweeping legislative agenda. I want to listen in to hear what they say.

(JOINED IN PROGRESS)

REP. ANDY HARRIS (R-MD): White House offered a proposal late last night that I think fulfills the other two parts of what the president talked about. And we -- there's broad agreement in the House Freedom Caucus that, if that's included in the package, I think this package is on route to get passed.

I don't think it can be done today. I mean, the runway is short today. The leadership is going to have to figure out where to go from here, but I think progress is made. I think that there is a pathway forward that we can see.

But, again, the leadership will have to figure out what the time frame of this is. As you know, I have come and I have spoken to several of you in the past few days and say, I'm not sure this can be done this week. I'm pretty confident it can be done in 10 days, but that's up -- that's up to leadership to decide.

We just want to emphasize, we want to deliver the president's agenda. The bottom line is, he said, end waste, fraud, and abuse in Medicaid, which is a hugely popular issue with the American people.

And he said, end the green new scam, which is hugely popular -- popular with the American people, who are watching their energy bills go up as our deficit goes up, and they wonder how, in a world where we have all the energy resources we have, gas, oil, you know, how in the world are our energy bills going up?

We're going to try to help solve that for the American family. So, anyway, so, with that, if any of my colleagues want to make a statement.

REP. CHIP ROY (R-TX): So, the legislation that we have got right now has made significant progress to advance the president's agenda, and that's what we're doing. We're trying to sit at the table. We're going to work with our colleagues, work with the White House to continue to deliver what the president campaigned on and what we all campaigned on.

As my good friend from Maryland just said, the president yesterday laid out some real clear terms, and we're working to achieve those. And we were working last night with the White House to achieve those and working with our colleagues today to deliver on what the White House put forward as a good-faith effort to deliver on those objectives.

Look, and just on a personal note, 14 years ago, I was diagnosed with cancer. And one of the reasons I ran for Congress was to deal with our very badly broken health care system. Today, there are millions of Americans right now who can't get health care because of our broken system.

They're on wait-lists. The vulnerable Americans are on wait-lists because we have got a broken system that rewards the able-bodied over the vulnerable, that gives more money to people on Medicaid than on Medicare. We are trying to fix those things and match those so we have a system that works.

That's what we're trying to do. We're trying to deliver so that the people who are actually out there working hard can actually get the health care that they want to get, that they can get and get it the best way possible. That's what this is all about, changing a broken system, making sure we're saving taxpayer dollars, and being able to provide a better environment for people to be able to thrive and their families.

So we're going to work with the president today. We're going to work with our colleagues to deliver, but there's a long way to go. I want to be very clear. We have got to deliver on what we're talking about or we're not going to be able to get the bill done, and that's what we're trying to achieve.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's exactly right. The White House reached out to us with, look, it's not perfect. No bill ever is. We understand that.

We recog -- we'd like to have more, but we recognize we have got a big conference and a big country and that the Democrats aren't going to help us. The Democrats want to see the taxes go up. The Democrats want the status quo in the failed health care system.

[11:05:08]

We accepted the White House's offer last night. Unfortunately, it's not yet codified in this agreement. We need to -- we need to continue to work at that. We as members are at the table. We don't want the deal to be ended. This is an arbitrary deadline. If today comes and goes, it doesn't mean that this possibility to make sure the taxes stay low and that we fix America's health care system and fix America's energy system, it doesn't mean that prospect is off the table.

It just means it might not happen today. And it's important that everybody knows that, because there's some kind of belief in Washington, D.C., that, once today comes and goes, that this cannot be fixed. This is a completely arbitrary deadline set by people here to force people into a corner to make bad decisions.

It's more important to get this right, to get it correct than to get it fast.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hear, hear.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And we are sitting at the table to do that.

ROY: And for the bill to move off of the floor, these issues have to be addressed. I want to be very clear.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right.

ROY: And that has to be addressed today, tomorrow, whenever we get to it, but it has to be done right, like my friend from Pennsylvania said.

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: So if this -- if this comes to the -- if this comes to the floor today, you're going to vote no to move ahead both on the rule and on the bill? Is that correct? You're going to vote no?

ROY: Yes, well, we're not there yet. The bill's not on the floor.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But you say if this comes to the floor. We have yet not seen right the manager's...

(CROSSTALK)

ROY: Right. We don't have a this.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So, we don't know what this is yet.

RAJU: The speaker wants to pass this tonight. So it's...

ROY: Well, then we should get busy working to get it done. We want to get it done too.

(CROSSTALK) RAJU: But you're saying it will not pass tonight if it comes to the floor.

ROY: It is not ready yet, but we got to see the language.

(CROSSTALK)

QUESTION: What are the terms of this agreement with the White House? What are the terms of it?

HARRIS: Well, look, broadly, the president came and said he -- we need to end waste, fraud, and abuse in Medicaid.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And that's what we're doing.

HARRIS: We believe that the agreement -- and, look, we're not going to get into specifics, though. We think that will help end waste, fraud, and abuse in Medicaid and also bend the out-of-control spending trajectory by eliminating waste, fraud, and abuse.

And I don't think many Americans disagree with that. And the other component is in the setting of rising energy costs. Look, energy costs have gone up 30 to 40 percent in my -- we're -- energy costs are supposed to be going down in this country. We have more energy than anybody else in the world.

This green new scam isn't working. It's making our grids unreliable. We want to -- we want to make sure that we can deliver affordable energy to all Americans. Those are the two major components, both of which are totally consistent with the...

(CROSSTALK)

ROY: And when the president -- and when the president said end the green new scam, he didn't mean leave 40 to 45 to 50 percent of the subsidies ongoing. So we're working to continue to scale that down.

(CROSSTALK)

RAJU: So what specifically -- what specifically are you asking for?

QUESTION: What is the easiest thing that the speaker could give you right now specifically that would get you all to a yes?

ROY: We're not going to negotiate this through you guys. That's -- we're -- I mean, you guys know the issues. We have put them out there table.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... table.

ROY: And we're sitting at the table to work through them. But you guys know the issues that we're very concerned about, the abuse and -- the waste, fraud, abuse in Medicaid, the scam that is going on, the money laundering, where we have got 90 percent...

(CROSSTALK)

QUESTION: You all agreed to the percentage of the levels of E&C. The E&C has exceeded those levels of Medicaid. You all agreed to those when you all voted for the budget of February. Why now are you all moving the goalposts?

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Wait. Wait. No, no, that's how you want to put it.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The gentleman's statement is not correct. The premise of your statement is not correct.

QUESTION: E&C met the levels that you all voted for in February and March.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're in the process of assembling 11 bills that just last week were finalized, and that our final opportunities to tweak and improve and solidify our intentions that were written into those bills is through the Budget Committee and the Rules Committee, where manager's amendments can be written to tweak, improve, and solidify the intentions and the agenda of the president of the United States and conservatives within the House and the Senate, by the way.

So we're in the midst of those final stages, gentlemen, of working through the Rules Committee for with manager's amendment. And the details remain unrevealed, but we're at the table working those details.

RAJU: But you guys are being very general. Can you be specific to tell the public what exactly you're asking for? Are you asking for changes to FMAP? Do you want more energy...

(CROSSTALK)

HARRIS: ... waste, fraud...

(CROSSTALK)

RAJU: Yes, but that's very, very general, waste, fraud, and abuse.

Specifically, what are you asking for?

(CROSSTALK)

HARRIS: ... waste, fraud and abuse. I don't understand how that's...

(CROSSTALK)

RAJU: But, I mean, are you want -- do you want FMAP changes? Are you demanding that there will be changes to that? Are you demanding that the IRA tax credits all be phased out immediately? HARRIS: We demand that waste, fraud, and abuse be addressed in

Medicaid. It's inadequately addressed in the current bill, and we believe that, as much of the green new scam should be eliminated as is possible.

(CROSSTALK)

QUESTION: But why you all doing this now?

(CROSSTALK)

QUESTION: You all voted for the E&C levels.

HARRIS: Wait. Let me address the -- let me address the goalposts nonsense.

We are working within the goalposts.

QUESTION: You voted for E&C levels.

(CROSSTALK)

HARRIS: Excuse me. Can I answer the question?

QUESTION: Yes.

HARRIS: Or you just want to -- you want to filibuster?

QUESTION: You can talk. You can talk. I'm just asking.

(CROSSTALK)

HARRIS: No, no, no, you're filibustering.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's a contrary fellow. And he's not accurate.

You're not very smart. We're deep in the details.

(CROSSTALK)

[11:10:01]

HARRIS: We're working within the goalposts.

We're not saying we need to -- we need to move the amount of cuts up, because, goodness knows, we moved the amount of spending yesterday with the SALT agreement. We're saying work within the goalposts. Rearrange it within the goalposts in accordance with what the president wants.

End waste, fraud, and abuse in Medicaid, which is wasting dollars that should be spent on the truly vulnerable, and then end as much of the green new scam as possible.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right.

QUESTION: But, Mr. Chairman, Mr. Chairman...

QUESTION: The president and the speaker say you have gotten what you have asked for. You're saying they're wrong.

ROY: The White House -- the White House last night -- the White House last night sat...

QUESTION: He said you have reached...

(CROSSTALK)

ROY: The White House -- the White House last night sat down with us to address the concerns that we're talking about.

The White House was very clear about what we're working on together to actually deliver on what the chairman, Chairman Harris, just talked about. And we're talking about specifics, man. I mean, what we're talking about here, you know the issues. You know the levers, right?

We have been very public about this. There's been articles written. Some of you have written some actually reasonably honest articles about the extent to which you're having seven times more money going to the able-bodied than the vulnerable. We're trying to fix that.

We're trying to fix a system that is corrupt, so there's a money laundering machine where dollars go from red states and from -- and responsible hardworking Americans to go to blue states like California to give money to people who are illegal or who are able-bodied.

We want to fix that. That's what we're trying to address. And on the goalposts moving, that's utter nonsense. The fact of the matter is, this has massive savings in the out five years, and it has massive deficits in the first five years because we're not addressing the structural reforms that we're talking about right here, including very specifically eliminating the 45 percent of the subsidies under the green new scam that continue.

So that's what we're talking about. We're not moving goalposts. We want to save money. We want to save as much money as we can. But we want to do it the right way to deliver for hardworking Americans who are getting left behind by government here, Republican and Democrat, who keeps spending money we don't have, racking up massive amounts of debt, driving up inflation so Americans can't afford homes.

The Moody's bond rating gets dropped, and people are getting left behind. No more. Now is the time for transformative reform. We're going to work with the White House to deliver it.

(CROSSTALK)

RAJU: The CBO said -- the CBO said last night that it would increase the deficit.

BROWN: All right, well, we were just listening to a sort of impromptu press conference essentially among the Freedom Caucus members, some of these GOP holdouts on the Trump agenda, which has really turned a little bit heated there, Wolf, as they talked about Trump's agenda and some of the hangups.

But they weren't really offering specifics. We know that Speaker Johnson wants to hold a vote tonight. Based on what we just heard, doesn't look like that's going to happen,

Manu Raju, to bring you in. You were really pressing for more specifics on what they want, and you weren't getting them.

RAJU: Yes, that's right.

I mean, we have got a sense of what they have wanted in -- over the past couple of days and demanding deeper spending cuts. They had been concerned about the deficit, the fact that this bill, according to the Congressional Budget Office, could grow the deficit.

And the deal that was cut yesterday with more moderate members to increase the amount that individuals and families can deduct from the state and local taxes they pay, that was pushed by moderate Republicans, New York Republicans in particular, but that can include -- that will increase the price tag of the bill.

So these members are asking for more cuts, specifically deeper into Medicaid. There are a number of issues that they are still trying to sort out. That includes changing the formula to how state -- the federal government pays into state-run Medicaid programs.

There's a question ultimately about how -- whether that's what they're -- these hard-liners are pushing for, also how quickly to phase out these green energy tax credits that are part of the Inflation Reduction Act. There is some concern among these members initially about that they are not being phased out quick enough.

So I tried to get them to explain exactly if that is part of the issue. They suggested that that is part of the issue. But the big headline out of this is that they are saying that they are not ready to move and advance this bill. That was the first question I asked out of the gate, are you ready to vote for this?

Because the speaker wants this approved today out of the House Rules Committee, on the House floor, and then into -- onto the House chamber, but he can only afford to lose three Republican votes on a straight party-line vote. But it's clear there, Pamela, based on what we heard from these members, he's not going to get there.

BROWN: Yes.

BLITZER: All right, Manu, I want you to stand by.

I want to bring in our correspondent Jeff Zeleny as well.

It was interesting. Yesterday, as you remember, the president met with the Republicans in the House, and he called it a meeting of love. He seemed to be suggesting they were on the verge of a deal, but now we see the chairman of the Freedom Caucus, Andy Harris, say, not this week. Maybe 10 days, there could be a deal, 10 days from now, and Chip Roy saying there's a long way to go. And I'm quoting him right now.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Look, and as you well know, Wolf, 10 days in a legislative impasse like this could well mean death in this.

When something is close to the finish line, you have to keep pushing it toward the finish line. That's why I am learning that the White House and the president are likely to have Speaker Johnson and House Freedom Caucus members over again today to keep pushing this forward.

[11:15:10]

The president presented a rosy picture yesterday after the meeting. There's no doubt about it. They have worked through the night on the budget bill here, but only the president probably can bridge this gap here. So this is very much an ongoing situation.

The reason it matters for the president, for all the executive orders he signed, and there have been hundreds and hundreds, this, legislation, is the absolute heart of his agenda going forward. He cannot really do anything without this passing. The tax cuts, of course, from 2017 will expire at the end of the year. The economy is watching this. The market is watching this. So this is very critical.

So keep an eye on what the White House does today, what the president does. They want to have a vote. This evening, Speaker Johnson earlier told our Lauren Fox it would come. The House Freedom Caucus is saying it won't come. We will see what the president has to say about this.

And, as of now, every time the president kind of persuades and twists arms, it's worked. This is the biggest test yet.

BLITZER: We will see if he has another meeting of love, as he called yesterday's meeting with the Republicans as well.

ZELENY: Right.

BLITZER: Jeff Zeleny, thank you. Manu Raju, thanks to you as well -- Pamela.

BROWN: And, right now, we just saw what the Freedom Caucus is saying, frantic negotiations, that they are happening on Capitol Hill, as President Trump's agenda clearly is on shaky ground.

These conservative hard-liners we just heard from, they are arguing that spending cuts inside the massive bill don't go far enough, and they are threatening this possible revolt as Speaker Johnson tries to win them over. He wants that vote today. Doesn't look like it's going to happen, based on what we just heard, but you never know.

Let's discuss more now with Republican Congressman Bryan Steil of Wisconsin. He is a member of the House Financial Services Committee.

Hi, Congressman. I'm not sure if you were able to hear that sort of impromptu press conference from the Freedom Caucus, but the Freedom Caucus chair, Andy Harris, just said a few moments ago that his group of hard-liners wants to deliver on the president's agenda. Another member, Chip Roy, said there's still a long way to go.

Is the Freedom Caucus standing in the way of getting this bill passed?

REP. BRYAN STEIL (R-WI): No, I think what you're actually seeing is Republicans uniting to deliver the presidential agenda.

I think we have an opportunity here in the homestretch of negotiations to make sure we make this the best bill that we possibly can. I encourage many of my conservative members, the folks that just spoke at that impromptu press conference, to continue working to make sure that we root out waste, fraud, and abuse in a whole host of programs, including Medicaid, because we have an opportunity to actually strengthen the program for those that it was designed for.

And, at the same time, I think we will see our colleagues from more moderate districts come to the table and reach an agreement. This is all about not allowing any one person to get 100 percent of what they want, but making sure that we come together, unite, and deliver on the president's agenda.

BROWN: Right, but in terms of timing here, we know that Speaker Johnson wants to get this to a vote today. It doesn't seem like that's going to happen, based on what we just heard from the Freedom Caucus members.

I mean, you heard Andy Harris throw out 10 days. You heard Representative Chip Roy throw out the fact that we still have a long way to go. Does that concern you?

STEIL: Well, it's the darkest before the dawn, but I think what we are looking at right now is final edits in the legislative text to make sure that everyone's comfortable and we can get all the frogs in the wheelbarrow as we get the bill across the line.

And so I think, when this final manager's amendment comes forward, that's the moment that we will know if we have the bills on the House floor. Obviously, the speaker is in final negotiations on that point. But I am of the belief that we will deliver on this.

Broadly, the media likes to underestimate Republicans in the House, and, time and time again, we overdeliver, and I think you're going to see us come through once again unified in an opportunity to get government spending under control, secure the border, and prevent a giant tax increase from hitting the American people.

BROWN: You can blame the media, but we're just covering the dynamic that is at play there. And these are just facts, right, that I'm putting out.

We heard from the Freedom Caucus members who were talking about the White House last night and this meeting there and that it was pleased with what the White House had to offer. Can you give us any more details on what that was? STEIL: Well, I'm not going to get into the internal negotiations,

but, obviously, many of us want to make sure that we are removing waste, fraud, and abuse.

There's huge opportunities in a number of our programs to do that, whether or not it's the energy subsidies that should have never been put in place by the Biden administration or the massive reckless spending that we saw during the previous four years. And so, on the homestretch of this bill, the final edits will come forward in a manager's amendment, but I'm of the belief that we will be there and we will be able to deliver on the president's agenda in the near future.

BROWN: And you talk about the spending. Of course, there is disagreement about spending, right, between Republicans and Democrats.

[11:20:00]

But the bottom line is, I know you're a fiscal conservative yourself. And when you look at the deficit in President Trump's first term compared to President Biden, there was more added to the deficit. And now the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office released this preliminary analysis estimating that this bill will add nearly $4 trillion to the deficit over 10 years.

What do you say to that?

STEIL: Yes, that's an accounting analysis that only assumes that the tax reductions from 2017 will expire. This is really in large part maintaining the tax reforms that were put in place in 2017 that brought us tremendous economic growth.

And we all have to go back and remember that, after the passage of these tax reforms that we're working to make permanent in 2017, what we saw was significant economic growth and real wages rising. What we want to do is put permanence to those laws that actually unleash great economic growth, because, if we make them permanent, I think what we will see is the economic growth come back to the level that we did coming into the pandemic.

BROWN: And it is true that the CBO did underestimate the economic growth from the 2017 tax cuts, but it was pretty in line with what happened with adding to the deficit.

And you talk about the growth part of about this. You know, there was this analysis from the nonpartisan Center on Budget and Policy Priorities that said the 2017 Trump tax cuts was a -- quote -- "trickle-down failure," claiming it failed to deliver promised economic benefits, favored the rich, and eroded the U.S. revenue base.

You have claimed in the past to be a good steward of taxpayer dollars. Is this doing that?

STEIL: I go back and look at the scoreboard after the 2017 tax reforms were put in place. What we see is tax revenues hanging out at roughly historical averages as a percent of GDP and spending skyrocketing.

We have a spending problem, not a taxing problem. The other aspect that I think that analysis fails to appropriately capture is the significant real economic growth that we saw following the implementation of the 2017 tax cuts.

Who was helped the most by that economic growth was some of the least amongst us. In particular, we saw above-average real wage increases for blacks, for Hispanics, for Asians, veterans, and women. And we need to make sure that we're putting in place those tax packages with permanency to make sure that we are uplifting all Americans, but, in particular, hardworking American families who have struggled to be able to afford the things that they need after four years of the reckless Biden administration.

BROWN: Let me just follow up with that, because, certainly, what is added to this from 2017 is the no taxes on tips and overtime, which certainly will help those who make less income.

But in terms of who the tax cuts helped in 2017, again, going back to this nonpartisan Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, it actually showed that the benefits were skewed to the rich, that households with incomes in the top 1 percent received an average tax cut of more than 60 percent in 2025, comparing to an average tax cut of less than $500 for households in the bottom 60 percent, so basically said it was helping the higher earners and not really helping the lower income earners in this country.

So what do you say to Democrats who argue Republicans are squeezing programs like Medicaid, food stamps -- and food stamps to benefit the rich?

STEIL: I think that's a false analysis that you're looking at. Why is that the case? Why does it misrepresent the facts?

Because we're actually working to make sure that we're protecting the programs for those individuals that it's designed for, prioritizing Americans, children, pregnant women, individuals and adults who are permanently disabled, and then making sure that we're putting in place programs to help lift those off of the need for the program in the first place.

The other aspect is, when we put in place good pro-growth tax policy for employers, the end result is workers who are working their tails off day in and day out actually see real wages increase. And so, when you look at things like accelerated depreciation or the R&D tax credit, one analysis can be as you stated.

But I think what you actually see with the empirical data is that the workers who are going in day in and day out are actually seeing real wages rise if you put in place pro-growth tax policies, and those are the pro-growth tax policies that this bill will make permanent.

BROWN: And just to follow up, when you said misrepresentation, are you talking about how the Democrats are talking about it? I just want to be clear. STEIL: I think that the way many of my Democratic colleagues are

talking about the bill misrepresents what will actually occur when the bill is implemented.

BROWN: OK.

STEIL: Again, going back to the rhetoric of 2017, what we saw was often sky-is-falling arguments, where the empirical data after the bill was passed is real wages rising, in particular for lower-income Americans.

That's a good thing that we should celebrate. We should build on those tax reforms.

BROWN: Right. And I just pointed out the facts from the nonpartisan Center on Budget and Policy Priorities that showed there was little wage growth for the bottom earners, but that it was skewed to the rich.

[11:25:00]

But I do appreciate what you're talking about. And, of course, this does include other tax cuts that would benefit those lower earners if this bill passes. That is still a question at this hour.

Congressman Bryan Steil, thank you for your time today.

STEIL: Thank you.

BLITZER: And still ahead: President Trump wants a massive missile defense system to protect the entire United States.

We will talk to a former defense secretary about the impact and the feasibility of such an effort.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: We have new details coming in this morning into THE SITUATION ROOM on President Trump's plans for the so-called Golden Dome, Trump vowing that his proposed missile shield will be operational by the end of his term.