Return to Transcripts main page
The Situation Room
"The Rehearsal" Examines Pilot Communication; Combs' Former Assistant "Mia" Testifying Criminal Trial. Aired 10:30-11a ET
Aired May 29, 2025 - 10:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[10:30:00]
PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Is poor communication between pilots and the cockpit a contributing factor in plane crashes? Well, that is what the latest season of the popular HBO show, "The Rehearsal," set out to investigate using a replica of an airport terminal, giant puppets, and even cloned dogs.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NATHAN FIELDER, EXECUTIVE PRODUCER, "THE REHEARSAL" AND COMEDIAN: I've been studying commercial aviation disasters as a hobby, and I started to notice a disturbing pattern in the causes of these crashes.
15 years ago, you recommended role playing exercises. The FAA --
JOHN GOGLIA, AVIATION SAFETY EXPERT AND FORMER BOARD MEMBER, NTSB: Said no. For whatever reason, they're just not going there.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In order to make change, it's going to take something different.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Fielder, where does your sense of altruism come from? Where all of a sudden you want to save lives? You're known for pranking.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is not sincere.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: We should note that CNN and HBO are both owned by the same parent company, Warner Brothers Discovery.
Here with us now, comedian, 737 pilot, and host of "The Rehearsal," Nathan Fielder and aviation safety expert and former National Transportation Safety board member John Goglia. He served under president's Bill Clinton and George W. Bush. Thanks to both of you for joining us.
For those of our viewers who have seen the show in this interview, I'm going to be the first officer, Blunt.
BROWN: And I'm going to be Captain All Ears.
BLITZER: You understand what we're saying? FIELDER: Yes. I mean, that's what we talked about, communication in the show.
BLITZER: So, we're playing roles right now.
BROWN: Yes, we are role playing.
FIELDER: Well, I'm guessing you have to do this. OK. Well, I think that's good. You know, I also think, Wolf, that like the issue that we talk about in the show is people not wanting to share their feelings with each other, copilots, because one might be of higher -- more experience than the other. So, they might know the thing that will save a plane from crashing, but they might not want to communicate it.
BLITZER: Nathan, you --
FIELDER: So, I assume between you two --
BLITZER: We like each other and we talk to each other.
FIELDER: But there's things you probably don't share too. So, that's a good way of the audience understanding the dynamic probably, right?
BLITZER: We are.
BROWN: Really, he should be the captain, is what you're saying. That's really what you're --
BLITZER: Let's talk a little --
FIELDER: did you watch the show?
BLITZER: Of course, everybody.
BROWN: I did too.
FIELDER: You knew though. You watched all of it.
BLITZER: Everybody's watching the show.
FIELDER: Great. Thank you so much.
BLITZER: It's a very popular show.
FIELDER: Wow. So, excited.
BLITZER: You guys are doing great.
FIELDER: Well, thank you for having us.
BLITZER: You're known though for comedy, as we all know, Nathan.
FIELDER: Yes.
BLITZER: What made you decide to investigate a very serious matter like this? FIELDER: Well, the show is still comedy, but also this is a serious thing, but I've been just interested in commercial airline crashes just for a while, just as like a hobby. I sort of just read about them.
BLITZER: Oh, you fly a lot.
FIELDER: Like as a passenger?
BLITZER: Yes.
FIELDER: Yes. Well, I fly normal like planes, like everyone.
BLITZER: So, you're concerned about airline safety?
FIELDER: Well, I don't want to die as a -- yes. But --
BLITZER: We don't want to either.
FIELDER: I mean, I'm concerned the same as everyone. But I just -- yes, I started to notice in -- yes, there's a TV show in Canada about crashes too that I watch, but I started to notice that they can always solve the technical stuff when a crash happens. You know, they work really hard to make sure that type of accident doesn't happen again. But for the human factor in communication, the thing keeps happening where there's miscommunication between pilots.
And I brought -- I talked to John about this and yes, John, obviously -- you know, he just in the -- just got inducted into the Aviation Hall of Fame, by the way.
BLITZER: Congratulations.
BROWN: Congrat.
GOGLIA: Thank you.
FIELDER: So, it's a big thing and we're really excited about that.
GOGLIA: So, in aviation we've long known that communications has been an issue. And we've -- we have dealt with it effectively through crew resource management. But what Nathan has uncovered was a little sliver that has fallen through the cracks and with these communications disconnect between pilots.
And when he first came to me and mentioned that to me, it immediately caught fire with me because I've seen it. I've flown in many, many, many cockpits. I've seen that the scenario that he presented over and over again. And in fact I want to take his scenario.
[10:35:00]
I teach school at Vaughn College in New York City, an aviation school. I plan on taking that show to my students, well, because they're up and coming aviation people, to show them and use it as an example of what they should not do and that they need to speak up. BROWN: So, clearly, there's concern. You lay it out in the show. We reached out to the FAA to see what it had to say about all of this, and it told us that it mandates all airline pilots and crew members to complete interpersonal communication training. And it says it isn't seeing the data that supports the show's central claim, that pilot communications is to blame for airline disaster. So, I want to get you to respond to that obviously.
FIELDER: That's dumb. They're dumb. And they're -- you know, they -- here's the issue is that they do -- like I trained to be a pilot, and I'm a 737 pilot. I went through the training. The training is, someone shows you a PowerPoint slide saying, if you are a copilot and the captain does something wrong, you need to speak up about it. That's all. That's the training. And they talk about some crashes that happened, but they don't do anything that makes it stick emotionally and makes you -- like, so, pilots think they'll act a certain way in an accident, but like the crash that just happened here, it seemed like they saw that was sort of the issue, right?
GOGLIA: A lot of disconnects between multiple parties. And --
BLITZER: So, you've seen evidence that a lack of communication, if you will, between a pilot and a copilot in the cockpit has caused a crash?
GOGLIA: And not -- contributed.
BLITZER: That's contributed to a crash.
GOGLIA: Contributed to a crash.
FIELDER: That's what they said in that. Do I agree?
BLITZER: Yes.
FIELDER: Well, yes. That was my whole thing. That's the whole show. But I mean, it's like a human thing. You know what I mean? Like there's definitely stuff, I'm sure you guys, like, you brought up the analogy, but like, I'm sure Pamela, you don't say some things to Wolf or -- because you're -- between you two, who would be like the boss or the more -- like you're Wolf Blitzer, right? So, you're like, your name is first on the thing. So, I'm sure Pamela, at times you, you might not want to say, you know, oh, Wolf wants to do something you don't think it's a good idea. You might not want to express that always.
BLITZER: She's very blunt.
BROWN: We actually have a pretty -- I understand your point --
FIELDER: But you have to say that now.
BROWN: No, I think this show --
FIELDER: I know. But you don't want to say to Wolf you can't -- you know, as a journalist, you don't want to say, oh, I don't want to -- BLITZER: She says that.
FIELDER: She says it to you?
BLITZER: Yes.
FIELDER: So, maybe you're afraid to say something.
BROWN: Here's the great thing about Wolf is he doesn't have an ego.
BLITZER: I'm very blunt with her too.
FIELDER: OK.
BROWN: He has no ego. But I take your point that like --
FIELDER: I mean, Wolf's in movies and stuff.
BROWN: He's a big deal. There is no question.
FIELDER: So, that's intimidating. That can be intimidating.
BROWN: That can be intimidating.
FIELDER: That's sort of the thing where we're trying to explore a little bit.
BLITZER: So, what's been the reaction to the show?
FIELDER: I don't know. What do you think of it?
BLITZER: Well, I'm asking you.
FIELDER: Oh, I don't know.
GOGLIA: Ask me.
BLITZER: Ask you.
FIELDER: Oh, ask John.
GOGLIA: It's exploded. My e-mail's exploded. My message has exploded. My grandkids are all over me. I mean, it's unbelievable the response.
BROWN: So, I want to go to a little bit deeper into the show. To you, Nathan. So, to better understand pilots, you did what you called a personality transfer where you tried to live as Captain Chesley "Sully" Sullenberger. Of course, that is a pilot of the "Miracle on the Hudson." And this was actually my favorite part of the season when you channeled Baby Sully.
FIELDER: Thank you.
BROWN: Right here. So, why was that so important to rehearse his entire life? FIELDER: Well, in the "Miracle on the Hudson" flight, Sully actually -- he did -- there was something I noticed in the transcript where he asked his first officer like, hey, do you have any ideas? So, he sorts of opened those lines of communication. And so, I'm like, well, this pilot seems to be bucking the trend, I've noticed, and is uniquely good. So, I was trying to sort of understand. He said in his book that his entire life led him to what he did in that flight.
So, my thinking was -- you know, these things -- you know, we try things and not everything is going to work. And that's the point. Like something -- I think the FAA, which has revealed themselves to be very dumb today with that comment. Because to -- I think what we're showcasing in the show is that there's -- even though we might not have the exact solution, there's stuff to look at here.
And they're -- you know, why say that? Because I think, you know, it's a little dumb just to be like -- you know, with that statement, right? What do you think, Wolf?
BLITZER: Is this an issue that the federal government should now investigate full time?
GOGLIA: It needs to start. CRM has been an effective tool in the cockpit. We need to look at it in the light of CRM and see if we need to put a module in there that deals with this.
BROWN: That's the training program you're talking about?
GOGLIA: That's the training.
BROWN: And do you think there should be role-playing -- more role- playing training? You said --
GOGLIA: Oh, no question.
BROWN: And the rehearsal that you would actually propose that when you were in and that they rejected it. So, you think there needs to be more. What do you make of the fact the FAA says, well, there isn't data? I mean, obviously, we know where Nathan comes down on this, but what do you think about the fact as a former government of official, that there's not the data to back this up.
[10:40:00]
GOGLIA: A government official that's been frustrated with the NT -- with the FAA's response to NTSB recommendations. All right. The ostrich syndrome is alive and well.
FIELDER: Ostrich syndrome?
GOGLIA: Yes.
FIELDER: What's that?
GOGLIA: Bury your head in the sand.
FIELDER: Oh, right.
BROWN: Oh, OK. There you go.
GOGLIA: Then defend, deflect, and deny is their mantra.
BROWN: So, just to go back to --
FIELDER: So, we got to get, what do you do then? Trump's got to do something or what?
GOGLIA: No, I'm too high. We got to -- you need to build the foundation.
FIELDER: We need -- we're building the foundation.
BROWN: Building the foundation. Coming on this show, obviously you've been appealing to Congress. Go ahead.
FIELDER: Yes, and that's what, you know, I was hoping to demonstrate with the miracle over the Mojave, which is the flight that I flew in the show, to show communication between pilots that people can see that two pilots trying their best to communicate, it's still a struggle.
And fortunately, in that flight, nothing else critical happens. So, I think when the communication lines up with a real potential emergency, that's when it could make all the difference. And so, you know, fortunately, I landed the plane safely and saved 150 lives that day. And so, I think the hope is that the FAA will look at this stuff and the miracle over the Mojave and be like, yes --
BLITZER: And you think this has been going on over multiple administrations, this isn't just a Trump administration issue?
FIELDER: No, this is -- no, this is -- goes back -- I mean, we've been -- we started the show in -- under the Biden administration. I mean, John has worked for, you know --
GOGLIA: Over 30 years ago -- I have a perfect example. Over 30 years ago, I was flying on the cockpit, on the jump seat, right. The captain was a good friend of mine, haven't seen him in months. We get in, I show up the airplane late, we're ready to go. He starts chatting to me. We get up to the runway, he's virtually stops talking on the runway we take off. But immediately after we retracted gear, he starts chatting again. And I let it go for a little bit. First officer never said anything. Finally, I said to him, 10,000 feet, let's redo him at 10,000 feet.
FIELDER: It's illegal to have chatter below 10,000 feet.
GOGLIA: Right. So, it, but he wanted to chat and I shut him up and we moved on. Right. So, it's -- there's all sorts of interplay in cockpits that happened routinely that we need to focus on, and that 10,000-foot rule for communications is one of the golden rules.
BLITZER: You know, it's interesting I know you came here to Washington, Nathan, for the show where you met with Democratic Congressman Steve Cohen. He's the ranking member on the House Aviation Subcommittee. That meeting apparently didn't appear to go very well. In a statement to CNN, the Congressman said this, and I'm quoting him now. He says, "He's disappointed with that meeting saying his team was told you wanted to talk about autism and the difficulties people with the condition could have in an airplane crash. He also says most of the substantive parts of your interview never made it in the show."
What are you hoping to get from that meeting? What were you hoping to get from that meeting? And have you spoken with other lawmakers here in Washington?
FIELDER: Well, I actually think that I tried to point out with similarities between autism masking and what is happening with pilots in the cockpit. And he is on the aviation subcommittee. So -- and I think he's -- he works in that area too. So, I was trying to draw a connection and really bring up this important issue.
And, you know, it's disappointing that he's sort of saying this now, because like he still has an opportunity to tackle this issue. He is the ranking member on the aviation subcommittee. And so, I don't understand why -- I mean, honestly, to be honest, like he didn't he didn't seem to know a lot about -- like, when I brought up CRM, which is this issue, he didn't seem to really be like aware of it and the specifics.
So, look, I wasn't going to bring that up because like -- but he seemed to like, come at me a little here that -- you know. So, I feel like we brought him a good thing. And, you know, I don't know what the power is of these lawmakers because, you know, but --
BLITZER: He's in the minority. Only the chairman of the committee could call witnesses.
FIELDER: But he can talk to the guy, right?
BLITZER: He can talk to --
FIELDER: He knows the chairman.
BLITZER: Of course.
FIELDER: And he could be like, look, this guy who's a pilot, 737 pilot, came to me with this very important issue. Maybe we should look at this a little more. And now, that the show is out, he could show it to the ranking member. So, that would be good. But it's -- I would say it's disappointing that he didn't want to take this more seriously.
[10:45:00]
BLITZER: When we reached out to the congressman, he did reference the FAA training manual.
FIELDER: What do you mean?
BLITZER: This -- you know, what was going on? How to prepare for these kinds of situations.
FIELDER: They have -- they talked to pilots about this, but they don't train them like --
BROWN: Right. Because you're saying --
FIELDER: You know what I mean?
BROWN: -- it was just like a PowerPoint. What your --
FIELDER: So, like, I can tell you, oh, Pamela, you got to speak your mind --
BROWN: That's where coming from, right.
FIELDER: -- to Wolf.
BROWN: Right.
FIELDER: You know, you got to be careful. Don't be afraid of him. I could tell you that. But are you going to do it --
BROWN: Right.
FIELDER: -- just because I say it? You need to --
GOGLIA: Reinforce it.
FIELDER: -- reinforce it. And we showed I think some -- that might not be the solution, but I think we showed some simple ways that this could be done cheaply and easily that could help -- and so, why not try it? Is what -- that's what John and I are saying. Like, just -- someone's got to like look into it.
BROWN: Right. And actually --
FIELDER: You know, HBO only wants to --
BROWN: I want to --
FIELDER: -- you know, fund it so much because it's like they want the entertainment value of it. So --
BROWN: I'm going to jump in here as Captain All Ears here.
FIELDER: OK.
BROWN: OK.
FIELDER: Sure. No. Captain All Ears is the one that listens, not that. That's blunt.
BROWN: Oh, OK.
FIELDER: First Officer Blunt.
BROWN: OK. Really quickly. I can --
BLITZER: She's all ears.
BROWN: I'm all ears though.
FIELDER: OK.
BROWN: We have this picture. I wanted to get this in before we go. We have a picture, actually not just of the statement, but of when you took off in the 737, you had been practicing in a simulator. This was the first time you were actually flying the real plane. Do we have this picture, guys? And there was a flock of birds right here.
FIELDER: Oh, yes.
BROWN: And this is like what you were trained for.
FIELDER: So, this is -- our still photographer captured this. And this is a flock of birds. And we narrowly, I guess, missed this. I didn't realize when we were flying, but once we got on the ground and I saw the photo -- and you can see it in the show too. Yes. We narrowly missed the flock of birds. And if birds get in the engines, that could shut down the engines.
BROWN: Yes. Well, we know what happened with Sully. Good thing you practice that.
FIELDER: And cause a real emergency. Well, exactly. But also, it shows why communication is important. Because if that did happen, like, you know, we landed the plane with the miracle on Mojave safely and all that, but if the birds hit our engines and we actually had an emergency, communication could make the difference between getting down safely or not, right?
GOGLIA: Right.
BROWN: Yes.
FIELDER: I mean it makes all the difference.
BROWN: All right.
BLITZER: Could potentially save a lot of lives.
FIELDER: Save a lot of lives.
BLITZER: And I know you're not only an actor and a comedian, you're a pilot.
FIELDER: I'm a pilot.
BROWN: You're still flying. You started working for a company flying the 737s?
FIELDER: Yes. Yes. I do some ferry flights for like a company still. We're all, you know, transport empty planes around the world. BROWN: Amazing. Well, thank you.
FIELDER: Thank you. I do want to say -- thank you. And I want to say too, like just, this is just something that I think is important to say because, you know, I think these days, like a lot of people will go to like, you know, alternative news sources or like comedy podcasters to get the word out about stuff. You know, like Joe Rogan or Theo Von. But for me, it's still CNN all the way.
BLITZER: Thank you.
BROWN: Thank you.
FIELDER: So, thank you for --
BLITZER: For us to.
BROWN: That means a lot.
FIELDER: Thank you so much.
BROWN: Thank you so much, Nathan.
BLITZER: Hey guys, keep up the good work.
FIELDER: Thank you.
BROWN: Thank you.
BLITZER: Thank you.
BROWN: Thank you so much,
BLITZER: Nathan Fielder and John Goglia. Thank you very much and we'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[10:50:00]
BLITZER: Happening right now, new testimony in the Sean Diddy Combs sex trafficking trial. His former assistant has now taken the stand using a different name. Her testimony following Combs' former stylist, Deonte Nash, who told the court he saw Combs being violent with Cassie Ventura.
BROWN: CNN's Kara Scannell is right outside the courthouse in New York. Kara, what can you tell us?
KARA SCANNELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right guys. So, the personal assistant of Sean Combs, who worked for him from 2009 to 2017, is testifying right now on the witness stand using the pseudonym Mia. So, far, she has testified that Combs was physically violent toward her. She said that he threw her against the wall, threw her in a pool and threw an ice bucket on her head. She also testified that Combs has sexually assaulted her more than once. This is just the beginning of her testimony. So, they're introducing the jury to her and her relationship to Combs before they get into greater detail about these events. But she said working for Combs was a chaotic, toxic environment. She said the highs were very high, the lows were very low, and they shifted depending on his mood.
Now, her testimony is following that of Deonte Nash, a former stylist to Combs and a current stylist to Cassie Ventura. And he says he's her best friend. He's been testifying this morning under cross examination. Yesterday, he told the jury that he was there when Combs had told Ventura that he would threaten to release the sex tapes of Ventura with other men, and that also threatened to give them to her parents' employers to get them fired.
One thing he testified about yesterday was about Ventura telling him that she didn't want to go to the hotel rooms with Combs, where the jury has already heard testimony from Ventura that that is where she was engaged in those freak offs and was forced to have sex with male prostitutes.
Now, on cross-examination, Combs' attorney pointed out to Nash the timeline here. He said in the four previous meetings he had with the government, it was only on the last meeting that he mentioned that Ventura ever told him that she didn't want to go. And it was, that meeting occurred the day after Ventura finished her testimony. So, they're trying to score some points with the jury here by trying to undercut some of Deonte Nash's testimony. But now, we're on to this next witness who is a alleged victim here. That is why she's being allowed to testify under a pseudonym as she talks about her experience working for Combs. Pam, Wolf.
[10:55:00]
BROWN: All right. Kara Cannell, thank you so much. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Happening now, mounting economic uncertainty at federal trade court is blocking most of President Trump's tariffs, but it could be short-lived relief for businesses.
BLITZER: We want to welcome our viewers here in the United States and around the world. I'm Wolf Blitzer with Pamela Brown. And you're in the Situation Room.
[11:00:00]
