Return to Transcripts main page

The Situation Room

Deadline for Democrats to Return to Texas; Pastor on a Crusade for Christian Nationalism; Thousands Evacuated in S. California as Fire Spreads. Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired August 08, 2025 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:30:00]

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Happening now, counting down to the deadline for Texas Democrats to return to Austin, the state capitol, or possibly lose their seats in the state legislature. Dozens fled the state to boycott Republican plans to redraw congressional lines. The House is set to reconvene in Austin in just hours.

Texas Democratic State Representative James Talarico is joining us now. He's in the Chicago area. Texas Republican Senator John Cornyn representative says that the FBI has responded to his request to help locate Texas Democrats like yourself who are outside of the state. Have you had any contact so far with federal law enforcement while you've been out of Texas?

STATE REP. JAMES TALARICO (D-TX): I have not. You know, Donald Trump threatened to arrest us. Greg Abbott threatened to remove us from our duly elected positions in the Texas legislature. Ken Paxton posted a tweet asking his followers to, quote, "hunt us down." And then this week we received a bomb threat at the hotel where we're staying. We evacuated. And thanks to local law enforcement, my colleagues and I are safe.

And we do have one message, which is that we will not be deterred. Because this is a lot bigger than us. It's a lot bigger than any one politician or any one political party. This is about whether the people, Democrats, independents, and Republicans alike, can change their government with their votes. It's about whether or not they can elect the representatives of their choice and hold powerful elected leaders, including the president of the United States accountable.

BLITZER: And just to remind our viewers that they can't really have a vote unless there's a quorum of members that are there attending, and there's not going to be a quorum, a minimum quorum unless Democrats show up. Governor Greg Abbott of Texas says Democratic legislators have to return to Texas at some point, and whenever they do, he says Republicans will ultimately pass their proposed congressional maps. Does he have a point that Democrats are delaying the inevitable?

TALARICO: I don't think so. We're taking this one special session at a time and my colleagues and I have agreed to stay out of the state capitol for the next two weeks to kill this rigged map and stop this corrupt process. Who knows what will happen after that? The governor certainly has the ability to call us back, and if he decides to do so, we'll evaluate our options.

Because, again, we are fighting for our constituents. We're doing what we were elected to do. Quorum breaking is protected in our state's constitution. It is a tool the minority has to check the abuses of the majority, and that applies here because the Republicans in Texas are trying to rig the upcoming midterms. They're trying to redistrict in the middle of the decade. They gerrymandered our maps back in 2021 when they were supposed to, and we didn't break quorum.

We're breaking quorum because they are at the direct request of the president of the United States attempting to change the rules midway through the decade so that the president doesn't have to face accountability for his unpopular policies.

BLITZER: Are you confident, James, that your Democratic colleagues are united and will not break ranks and return to Texas like some of them did back in 2021?

TALARICO: I'm confident that we can hold out for this special session and prevent this rigged map from passing. You know, I was elected by my constituents to fight for them at the state capitol, and that's what I'm doing even though I'm not at the state capitol. I didn't swear an oath to Donald Trump. I swore an oath to the constitution. And so, my colleagues and I are going to defend this representative democracy with every ounce of our energy.

[10:35:00]

It's a little reminiscent of when Donald Trump called Georgia Republicans after he lost the 2020 election and asked them to find him 11,000 more votes. Thankfully, they said, no, sir. But when Trump called Texas Republicans and asked them to find him five more congressional seats, they said, how about Thursday? And so, the responsibility to defend the constitution and this representative democracy fell to Texas Democrats, and we answered the call.

BLITZER: Texas State Representative James tall Talarico, thanks so much for joining us. We'll stay in close touch with you.

TALARICO: Thanks, Wolf.

BLITZER: And just ahead, a Situation Room special report, meet the pastor on a controversial crusade and how he's expanding his reach right here to the nation's capital.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:40:00]

BLITZER: A new church has quietly opened here in Washington just three blocks from the nation's capital. The defense secretary, Pete Hegseth, attended the first service. The church is part of the Communion of Reformed Evangelical Churches, and its aim is global Christian domination under a strict interpretation of the bible.

In this Situation Room special report my colleague, Pamela Brown, went to Moscow, Idaho to meet the controversial pastor behind it.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Christ Church Senior Pastor Doug Wilson makes no apologies for his beliefs on God and country.

DOUG WILSON, SENIOR PASTOR, CHRIST CHURCH: I'd like to see the town be a Christian town. I'd like to see the state be a Christian state. I'd like to see the nation be a Christian nation. I'd like to see the world be a Christian world.

BROWN (voice-over): And now, Wilson's controversial views as a Christian nationalist are gaining sway in the nation's center of power with the recent opening of his new church and high-profile parishioners like Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth.

BROWN: Is planting a church in D.C. part of your mission to try to turn this into a Christian nation?

WILSON: Yes. So, every society is theocratic. The only question is, who's Theo? In a secular democracy, it would be Demos, the people. In a Christian republic, it'd be Christ.

BROWN: Well, what would you say to someone watching this? Say, look, I'm a Muslim. Who are you to say your worldview is better than mine? That your God is better than mine?

WILSON: Well, if I went to Saudi Arabia, I would fully expect to live under their God's rules.

BROWN: But you said earlier that you want this to be a Christian world.

WILSON: Yes.

BROWN: So, you want to supplant their religion with your Christian.

WILSON: Yes, by peaceful means, by sharing the gospel. There's a lot of work yet to do. I believe that we are working our little corner of the vineyard.

BROWN (voice-over): Wilson's little corner, a picturesque campus nestled on the outskirts of downtown Moscow, Idaho, is growing by the day with thousands of like-minded Christians. Parishioners of his church, known as Kirkers, own and operate several businesses downtown next to liberal college town stores.

WILSON: If it's true, if it's true --

BROWN: Why did he yell boo? Because it's --

WILSON: Because of me.

BROWN (voice-over): Because of you.

WILSON: Yes. Well, there you go. BROWN: That's a regular day for you.

WILSON: That's not unusual.

BROWN (voice-over): A big focus of his Christian movement is on a patriarchal society where men are dominant and women are expected to submit to their husbands.

WILSON: Women are the kind of people that people come out of.

BROWN: So, you just think they're meant to have babies. That's it. They're just a vessel.

WILSON: No, it doesn't take any talent to simply reproduce biologically. The wife and mother, who is the chief executive of the home, is entrusted with three or four or five eternal souls.

BROWN: I'm here as a working journalist, and I'm a mom of three.

WILSON: Good for you.

BROWN: Is that an issue for you?

WILSON: No, it's not automatically an issue.

BROWN (voice-over): Josh and Amy Prince, along with their four kids, moved here from Washington State.

BROWN: Do you see Amy as your equal?

JOSH PRICE, MEMBER, CHRIST CHURCH: Yes and no, in the sense that we're both saved by grace. We're absolutely on equal footing. But we have very different purposes, God-given.

BROWN: But do you see yourself as the head of the household, as the man?

AMY PRINCE, MEMBER, CHRIST CHURCH: He is the head of our household. Yes, and I do submit to him.

BROWN: So, like, moving here was ultimately your decision.

PRINCE: I was just going to say that. Yes, that's a great example.

J. PRINCE: That's a great example.

BROWN (voice-over): Wilson says in his vision of a Christian society, women as individuals shouldn't be able to vote. His fellow pastors, Jared Longshore and Toby Sumoter, agree.

TOBY SUMOTER, SENIOR PASTOR, KING'S CROSS CHURCH: In my ideal society, we would vote as households. And I would ordinarily be the one that would cast the vote, but I would cast the vote having discussed it with my household.

BROWN: But what if your wife doesn't want to vote for the same person as you?

SUMOTER: Right. Well, then that's a great opportunity for a good discussion.

BROWN: There are some who have gone so far as to say that they want the 19th Amendment repealed.

JARED LONGSHORE, EXECUTIVE PASTOR, CHRIST CHURCH: I would support that. And I'd support it on the basis that the atomization that comes with our current system is not good for humans.

BROWN (voice-over): And Wilson, a veteran himself, is unapologetic about his view that women shouldn't be in certain leadership or combat roles.

BROWN: Looking at the leadership page for Christ Church, it's all men.

WILSON: Right.

BROWN: Do you accept women in leadership roles in the church and government?

WILSON: In the church, no.

BROWN: Why?

WILSON: Because the Bible says not to.

JENNIFER BUTLER, FOUNDER, FAITH IN DEMOCRACY: Well, that's not what happens in the bible. Women do lead all the time.

BROWN (voice-over): Progressive faith leader Reverend Jennifer Butler is concerned about Wilson's growing influence.

BUTLER: He is rapidly gaining in power. He has hundreds of churches established around the country. They actually literally want to take over towns and cities. And they have access to this administration.

[10:45:00]

BROWN (voice-over): Wilson is part of a broader Christian nationalist movement making inroads with the Trump administration, with a newly created faith office led by Evangelical pastor Paula White-Cain and people seen right outside the White House entrance praying and speaking in tongues.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We are standing on the soil of the White House, and we are declaring your word.

BROWN (voice-over): And now there's a monthly prayer service at the Pentagon initiated by Hegseth, Wilson's highest-level connection to the administration.

WILSON: It's not organizationally tied to us, but it's the kind of thing we love to see. BROWN (voice-over): For his part, Hegseth has publicly praised Wilson.

PETE HEGSETH, U.S. DEFENSE SECRETARY: Now, we're standing on the shoulders of a generation later, the Doug Wilsons and the others.

BROWN (voice-over): Wilson's influence spans the globe with more than 150 churches. Lennox Kalifungwa moved to Moscow from Africa.

LENNOX KALIFUNGWA, NEW MEMBER OF CHRIST CHURCH OF ZAMBIA: It's really because I wanted to be a part of a community that was doing something, and especially in building Christian institutions.

BROWN: Are there other black families in this community?

KALIFUNGWA: Oh, absolutely. There's a few black families.

BROWN (voice-over): Wilson maintains all are welcome to his church, but he's also not shying away from his past controversial statements on race.

BROWN: Do you still believe what you said back in the nineties that there's a mutual affection between master and slave?

WILSON: Yes. It depends on the -- on which master, which slave you're talking about. Slavery was overseen and conducted by fallen human beings and there were horrendous abuses and there were also people who owned slaves who were decent human beings and didn't mistreat them. I think that system of chattel slavery was an unbiblical system, and I'm grateful it's gone.

BROWN (voice-over): What he also wants gone, same sex marriage because he thinks homosexuality is a crime.

WILSON: In the late '70s and early '80s sodomy was a felony in all 50 states. That America of that day was not a totalitarian hellhole.

BLITZER: So, you would like America to go back to that?

WILSON: Yes.

BROWN (voice-over): Wilson maintains his ultimate goal is to bring about the second coming of Christ through his work and rejects critics' claims he's trying to make the dystopian world of the Handmaid's Tale a reality.

WILSON: I'm not a white nationalist. I'm not a fascist. I'm not a racist. I'm not a misogynist.

BROWN: How far off do you see a Christian nation, like a full-on Christian theocracy?

WILSON: Oh, 250 years.

BROWN: 250 years.

WILSON: Yes. Honestly, that's -- yes.

BROWN: That's what you see. But you do think it will happen.

WILSON: Yes, I do. We're not going to usher in anything ourselves. We're really genuinely pioneers.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: And thanks to our Pamela Brown for that very special report. CNN, by the way, reached out to the U.S. Defense Department to inquire about Secretary Hegseth's relationship with Doug Wilson. A spokesperson said Hegseth is, quote, "A proud member of the network of churches founded by Wilson," and that the secretary, quote, "Very much appreciates many of Mr. Wilson's writings and teachings," end quote.

Coming up, right now, thousands of people are under evacuation orders out in California as firefighters are rushing to try to contain an explosive wildfire just outside of Los Angeles, we're alive there with the latest. Stay with us. You're in the Situation Room.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:50:00]

BLITZER: More than a quarter century after John F. Kennedy Jr. died in a plane crash, a new CNN original series takes a closer look at his life and legacy, from his early years after the tragic loss of his father to his political magazine and his marriage to Carolyn Bessette. Here's a preview of American Prince.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He said, I'm sitting next to my wife because she'll have fun with you. And we did have fun. We'd like go out and sneak, sing our heads. She was great.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I mean, look, was she a total pain in the ass to certain people in there? Yes, it was a problem for Michael.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Welcome. My name is Michael Berman, and I am the co-founder and executive publisher of George.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The two of them together created George.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When John and I first began to talk about the magazine, the experts early on advised us never go into business with a friend.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There would've been no George Magazine without Michael Berman and there would've been no George Magazine without John Kennedy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: And joining us now, the historian and author, Steve Gillon. Steve, thanks so much for joining us. I know you met John F. Kennedy Jr. at Brown University. You were then a grad -- in grad school, and you say you were his mentor of sorts. What was he like during those days when you first met him?

STEVE GILLON, HISTORIAN AND COLLEGE FRIEND OF JFK JR. AND AUTHOR, "AMERICA'S RELUCTANT PRINCE": You know, John was -- I met John, I was -- it was the spring of 1982 and I was a graduate student and a teaching assistant in a class in Modern American Political History and John was a sophomore. I never expected that he would take a class in Modern American Political History, but he did.

You know, John back then was pretty carefree. He was a decent student, a respectable student. But you know, one of the issues that John always had was he had a short attention span and that you saw that playing out later on when he took the bar exam and failed a couple of times. And if there was a topic that John was really interested in, like civil rights, he would be really animated and he'd come alive.

But he -- you know, he was a good student. And I really got to know him later on when he was a senior and I was still in grad school. And we used to work out together and we'd play racquetball, these ferocious games of racquetball and then we'd lift weights and we'd joined this gym outside of Providence, and we'd stop.

And there's this fancy new restaurant that's just opened up called Wendy's. And John, of course, never had money, but we'd stop and have -- eat at Wendy's. So, it was really that one year, his senior year that I got to know him and got a sense of what it was like to be John F. Kennedy Jr.

[10:55:00]

And I -- one of the most revealing things he ever said to me once, we were driving to the gym and he said -- you know, he said, Stevie, he used to call me Stevie. And he said, you know, I'm really two people. He said, I'm just John, John Kennedy. And he was, you know, a privileged member of his generation, but someone who had his own identity. And then there was a role that he played. The role he played was John Fitzgerald Kennedy Jr., the son of a martyred president. And people wonder why John wanted to go into acting. He'd been acting his whole life.

And the great thing about John and what he'd learned to do over the short years that he lived, was to create an identity that was separate from all the expectations that had been placed upon him by his family and by the public. And that was the -- I think that was his great achievement.

When we think of the Kennedys, we think of people in public life, run for -- they're presidents and they're senators. But John's greatest achievement was personal and it was private, and it was his ability to withstand all this pressure and develop an identity that was truly his own.

And I think the one of the layers of tragedies about his death was that he was just realizing in those last years of his life that he really did want to go into politics. And he was planning that course when, you know, the tragic accident.

BLITZER: Steve Gillum, thanks so much for your remembrance. We appreciate it very, very much. And we're all about to learn a lot more about John F. Kennedy Jr. Don't miss our new original series, "American Prince: JFK Jr.," that -- tomorrow night it airs 9:00 p.m. Eastern only here on CNN. And we'll have more news right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:00:00]