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The Situation Room

Interview With Sen. Martin Heinrich (D-NM); J.D. Vance in Israel. Aired 11:30a-12p ET

Aired October 21, 2025 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:30:02]

J.D. VANCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: If we get to the point where we're arguing exactly what the governance structure in Gaza is long-term, then we should pat ourselves on the back. That's a very good problem to have, but I won't anticipate that problem before we actually have it.

I will take a couple more and then we will get moving.

Ma'am.

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)

VANCE: Could you speak up? Thank you.

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)

VANCE: Well, the incentives are that unless Hamas disarms in accordance with the agreement, very bad things are going to happen, right?

And also the incentive is that, if they disarm, there is a better future for everybody on the other side of it. But in terms of the international security force, Steve and Jared, Admiral Cooper are working on that very issue right now. Remember, this peace deal was struck under the president's leadership literally a week ago.

The hostages returned, what, six days ago, five days ago? So we're in the phase now where we're actually starting to conceptualize what that international security force would look like. I think it's important for Americans to know a couple of things.

Number one, there are not going to be American boots on the ground in Gaza. The president of the United States has made that very clear. All of our military leadership has made that very clear. What we can do is provide some useful coordination. How do you take the Gulf Arab states, plus Israel, plus -- plus the Turks, plus the Indonesians, how do you actually get those folks to work together in a way that actually produces long-term peace?

The only real mediators are the United States of America. And so that's the role that we're going to play. I think the American people should be proud of them, but they should know that there are not going to be no American boots on the ground in Gaza. Sir in the back.

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)

VANCE: Could you ask the very last part?

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)

VANCE: Well, I'm not going to make any announcements here today. The president of the United States has been very clear about our policy with regards to Iran. It's that he actually wants Iran to be prosperous. He wants to have good relations with the Iranians, but they cannot have a nuclear weapon.

And so we're going to keep on using and exhausting every diplomatic means possible to try to ensure that Iran does not have a nuclear weapon. That's our focus, and that will remain our focus for the indefinite future.

Let me just leave us with one final thought here. So I have been to Israel once in my entire life. I came for about 36 hours. And as a Christian, I think the world's Christians will know that this country, that this region of the world means a great deal to me.

And at some point today, I hope to go -- or at some point in the next couple of days, I should say, I hope to go to the Church of the Holy Sepulchre, which Christians believe is the site that Jesus Christ was crucified in.

And I know that Christians have many titles for Jesus Christ. And one of them is the prince of peace. And I'd ask all people of faith, in particular my fellow Christians, to pray that the prince of peace can continue to work a miracle in this region of the world. I think that we have made incredible strides over the past week.

We're going to have to make a lot more. But I think, with your prayers, with God's providence, and with a very good team behind me, I think we're going to get it done. Thank you all. Take care.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: All right, so there you have the vice president of the United States, J.D. Vance, and Steve Witkoff and Jared Kushner, who are also with him there in Israel, Kiryat Gat, specifically, south of Tel Aviv, not far from Gaza.

That's where us and other troops are going to be based as part of this international security force that's being put together to deal with the situation in Gaza.

But what we heard, Pamela, and I thought it was significant, in contrast to some of the assessments that the cease-fire seems to be in deep, deep danger right now, they were pretty upbeat, saying things are moving in the right direction and that they're confident that they will continue to move in the right direction.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: Yes, clearly this was sort of a united front to try to ease concerns about where things stand with the cease-fire and present that more positive projection moving forward.

Let's bring in Andrew Peek for some more analysis on this. He previously served on the National Security Council and was deputy assistant secretary of state for Iraq and Iran.

Andrew, you were listening closely to this. What jumped out at you?

ANDREW PEEK, FORMER U.S. DEPUTY ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF STATE: Well, I think it is interesting that we have now gone to the second major diplomatic beat of the peace deal.

The first was pressure on the Israelis such that if Hamas gives up their hostages and the corpses of the dead hostages, that Israel would not immediately restart the war, right? So there had to be a little bit of pressure on the Israelis to create that bridge of trust for that to happen.

The second beat was that, once the hostages are turned over and the wars stop, Hamas ultimately would disarm. And now you're having discussions about the creation, the dilution of Hamas' authority in the Gaza Strip and some space created to allow the emergence of some kind of other Palestinian Authority, which I think is what the vice president was just talking about in his press conference.

[11:35:15]

BLITZER: One of the stipulations in the 20-point peace plan that was worked out, beginning with a cease-fire and the return of all the living Israeli hostages and the deceased Israeli hostages, is that Hamas would actually disarm in Gaza. Is that realistic?

PEEK: Sure. I think this is going to be, again, the second diplomatic beat here.

It's going to -- I don't know if you ever get to a place where Hamas, like the IRA, has videotaped ceremonies where they're burning their weapons in kind of videotaped ceremonies. I do think you can dilute its power, create an alternate power base, and then over time, technocratize away Hamas' control from the key levers of Palestine.

BLITZER: You know, I just wanted to make one more point and get your thoughts. You used to work at the National Security Council. We heard from Admiral Brad Cooper, who's the head of the U.S. military's Central Command, CENTCOM, which oversees all U.S. troops in the Middle East, talking about the introduction of a few hundred American troops who would be based there in Israel at Kiryat Gat, dealing with this international security force.

No boots on the ground, no U.S. boots on the ground in Gaza, but not very far away.

PEEK: Americans are the great logisticians in intelligence support. And if they can -- if there are some forces that can help the creation of this alternate force from outside of Gaza, then I think that's something that could be useful. BROWN: I want to ask you because you worked in the NSC under the

Trump administration, we should note that, what did you make of the vice president, J.D. Vance, in this role?

I mean, Secretary of State Marco Rubio isn't there. It is the vice president at this really critical time in the cease-fire.

PEEK: What got, as you reported, the first deal over the finish line was the president personally weighing in from the top with these different leaders, with Bibi, with Qatar.

The V.P. is the deputy, right? He's the deputy president. I think the more that it's reinforced that the attention from the top is on this issue, is on Hamas not flexing its muscles in Gaza, is on Israel not restarting the war, particularly after the events of the last couple days, the more likely the cease-fire is to hold.

BLITZER: And when we hear the vice president say, I'm quoting him now, "I feel very optimistic," do you -- are you very optimistic?

PEEK: I long ago stopped predicting things in the Middle East, but I did not think that Hamas would let the soldiers go. So they have already proved me wrong.

BLITZER: Yes. That was a significant moment, indeed. I was in Israel when they finally started to arrive in Israel. All of a sudden, people after months and months and months of walking around the streets being sad, depressed all of a sudden I see Israeli smiling. That was very encouraging.

BROWN: Yes.

And I want to bring in our Jerusalem correspondent, Jeremy Diamond, who was there at that press conference.

Also, from what we heard from the vice president there, Jeremy, was an encouragement of patience when it comes to the turning over of some of those deceased hostages.

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's right.

The vice president acknowledged that some of these bodies of deceased hostages are still buried under thousands of pounds of rubble. And there have been efforts in recent days to try and recover some of those bodies inside of Gaza. But what he also acknowledged was that some of them, the location of some of these remains of deceased hostages simply is not known.

And that was an important reminder to the Israeli public and also to the world at large that we may not see some of these remains of the deceased hostages come out for quite some time.

I think, overall, the sense that we got here, as the vice president stood out here alongside Jared Kushner and Steve Witkoff, at this newly minted Civil-Military Coordination Center -- you can see the different flags behind me here -- is just how much all of this is still very much coming together.

We saw this cease-fire agreement be brokered very quickly, move immediately into phase one, but there is so much more work that still needs to be done. And a lot of that work is happening right here at this CMCC, where they are getting together various militaries from around the world to begin preparing for, A, the entry of humanitarian aid, improving the way in which that flows into Gaza, trying to prevent this cease-fire from blowing up should there be any violations by either side, and then also working towards this international stabilization force that's going to go into Gaza.

And I think there was very clear acknowledgement from all of the U.S. officials you heard from here that all of this is very much a work in progress. We heard Steve Witkoff say that he believes that they are exceeding where we thought we would be at this time, but no clear sense of a timeline for when that stabilization force would actually begin to go into Gaza.

[11:40:04]

Another interesting point that was mentioned here was discussion of starting some of the reconstruction of the Gaza Strip in those areas that are still controlled currently by the Israeli military, meaning reconstruction funds and efforts going into these areas that are still under Israeli military control, perhaps to set up a world in which Palestinians start to flow into those areas, the international stabilization force takes over.

Meanwhile, those Hamas-run areas still remaining in the state that they are until that stabilization force goes there, until Hamas disarms, until Hamas gives up its power, but, once again, just a clear sense that there is a lot of work to be done. We heard some cautious optimism today from the vice president about the cease-fire remaining in place.

And just a last note. The vice president was also asked whether his visit here was timed because of what happened on Sunday, where we saw two Israeli soldiers killed, Israel unleashing dozens of airstrikes across the Gaza Strip, and was his visit here because he was concerned about the cease-fire collapsing?

He denied that, but there's a very clear sense that the Americans are here sitting with the Israeli prime minister, sitting with Israeli officials, urging them to hold fast to the cease-fire and trying to prevent another attack like that from collapsing the cease-fire altogether -- Wolf, Pam.

BLITZER: All right, Jeremy Diamond on the scene for us in Kiryat Gat, south of Tel Aviv, not far from Gaza. That's where this so-called international security force, including U.S. troops, is going to be based, dealing with the post-cease-fire in Gaza. We will stay in very close touch with you, Jeremy, very much.

Andrew Peek is still with us, former official over at the National Security Council, a former deputy assistant secretary of state as well. You have got a lot of experience in the Middle East. I thought it was

significant that the vice president said that he was -- it was -- the Israelis right now are being very helpful in dealing with this. Did you hear that?

PEEK: Yes, absolutely, because the thing now the Israelis want is almost totally dependent on American diplomatic muscle, not just with Hamas directly, but with the Arab states and partially with the Europeans, which is creating this political space where some kind of alternative can reemerge.

Because I think Netanyahu is very conscious that even though I think he's allowed to restart the war under the terms of the agreement, if Hamas doesn't do certain things, politically at home, I think it would be incredibly fraught.

BLITZER: And I also thought it was significant, and I'm sure, Pamela, you agree with me, that the vice president said before going down to Kiryat Gat for this news conference and meeting with some U.S. troops who are going to be stationed there, members of the U.S. military's Central Command, he met with 10 hostages and their families elsewhere in Israel.

I'm sure that was a very moving experience for him. He said it was.

PEEK: I cannot imagine what the scene in Israel was like when those hostages were released. I cannot imagine the trauma those families have gone through. I have met some of them.

It must have been an unbelievable moment when they came out.

BROWN: I want to ask you. There was a question asked of the vice president. We couldn't hear the question, but the vice president responded, "Jared is the investor here." Jared, of course, is the president's son-in-law, a private citizen who is there. He's been helping broker the cease-fire deal.

As we know, Donald Trump has talked about rebuilding Gaza, making it essentially a destination spot. I'm just curious, given the fact that you were in this administration, were you ever part of those discussions?

PEEK: The Mediterranean is a beautiful place. I have no doubt if anyone can make the Gaza Strip a beautiful destination spot, it's the president.

But, unfortunately, no, I wasn't part of that.

BROWN: OK.

BLITZER: Yes, I have been to Gaza and Mediterranean. In Gaza, like the Mediterranean off the shores of Tel Aviv or Herzliya or other cities in Israel, it is the Mediterranean. It's a beautiful area indeed.

PEEK: It's part of the tragedy of all this. BLITZER: Yes. Right now, there's so much rubble there, unfortunately.

So let's see if that can be cleared up.

BROWN: Thank you.

BLITZER: Andrew Peek, thanks very, very much.

We will take a quick break. We will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:48:23]

BLITZER: Happening now: The government shutdown is now in day 21 with no movement on Capitol Hill or at the White House.

Multiple air traffic control facilities reported around the country serious staffing shortages yesterday and into the early hours of today as well, as controllers work without pay. Hundreds of thousands of government workers are now furloughed, and time is ticking down before critical nutrition support for millions of Americans expires.

Joining us now is the Democratic Senator Martin Heinrich of New Mexico. He's a key member of the Appropriations Committee.

Senator, thanks so much for joining us.

We're, what, now three weeks into this government shutdown. Neither side is negotiating with the other. So how does this ultimately end?

SEN. MARTIN HEINRICH (D-NM): You know, I think the House of Representatives needs to come back to Washington, D.C., and we need to get the principals in the room with the president and cut a deal. We need to make sure people can afford their health insurance and we need to reopen the government.

BLITZER: As you know, House Republicans point out that they did pass what they say is a clean short-term continuing resolution, a funding bill. But most Senate Democrats have refused to support it.

I know you and other Democrats want to address the Affordable Care Act subsidies set to expire at the end of the year. But why not vote to fund the government at least now and then negotiate on the subsidies when the government is now open?

HEINRICH: It's kind of a Lucy and the football moment. If we do that, we will never get there. They will not raise these tax credits. And if we can afford a $3.4 trillion tax cut for people like Elon Musk, we can sure as hell afford to keep these credits in place that the working class in this country absolutely relies on.

[11:50:13]

I have constituents who cannot afford three, $300, $400, $500, $700 more a month. That will push them over the edge. We cannot do this to working-class Americans. BLITZER: As you know, Senator, these health care subsidies, which are

so important, are expiring at the end of this year because that's when Democrats controlled -- when Democrats controlled Congress and passed the Inflation Reduction Act, it included that specific expiration date.

Democrats were also the key architects of Obamacare. Is this a crisis of your party's own making right now?

HEINRICH: No, it's a crisis because the current leadership in Congress is not willing to step up and take care of working people.

It's that simple. Like we can afford this. This is a lot less money than what the president just gave to the country of Argentina, one of our competitors, especially with respect to farmers in this country. This is very doable.

And these are red voters too. I -- it really doesn't make sense to me why we don't just get in a room and figure this out. It's not that expensive.

BLITZER: I have covered a lot of government shutdowns over the years here in Washington. And almost always you have to pass what's called a clean C.R., a continuing resolution to end the government shutdown, bring the government workers back, have them starting to get their salaries and everything, and then work out specific details, at least while the government is open.

Why not do -- why not support a clean C.R. right now and at least let the government operate as the way it has been over the past few years, the same spending requirements, et cetera?

HEINRICH: Because, if we do, we will never see those ACA tax credits extended. And I don't think we can turn our backs on the people who make this country work.

This is -- Democrats put a C.R. forward. We didn't have 60 votes. Republicans put a C.R. forward. We didn't have 60 votes for that. We need to get in a room and negotiate this.

BLITZER: Some Republicans, Senator, have pushed a bill that would pay government workers who have not been furloughed as part of the government shutdown. Those who have been furloughed would still be without pay. Is this something you would support?

HEINRICH: I'm not going to pit some of my government employees against other government employees. I think that just gives the president more leverage to really make the situation worse and treat some government employees with incredible disdain.

We have already seen a lot of government employees fired during the shutdown who didn't need to be fired. This is an administration that's very hostile to government employees. I have a lot of those folks in my state. And I'm not going to turn my back on any of them.

BLITZER: So what do your Republican colleagues have to do right now to bring the government back operating?

HEINRICH: You know, like I said before, I think what's critical -- and the president himself has said this -- is, the president should call the leadership of the House and Senate down to the White House and we should negotiate a deal.

That's how we get out of these shutdowns.

BLITZER: And you think the Democrats and the Republicans from their respective positions are ready to make serious concessions?

HEINRICH: I'm very cognizant of the fact that I'm not going to get everything I want. But if we don't negotiate, we won't get to yes.

People need to get in the same room together and negotiate a deal.

BLITZER: And you think that's going to happen or are you pessimistic?

HEINRICH: No, I think it will happen. It should happen. And it's certainly the path that I support.

BLITZER: I want to quickly turn to some politics, specifically next year's midterm elections. You have praised the Maine Democratic Senate candidate Graham Platner and told Politico you donated to the campaign.

CNN's KFILE recently uncovered posts from Platner calling himself a -- quote -- "communist," dismissing -- quote -- "all police as bastards" and saying white Americans -- quote -- "actually are racist and stupid." Platner has since apologized for that.

Are you considering, reconsidering your support for his campaign?

HEINRICH: I'm not, and let me tell you why. Graham has made a lot of mistakes in his life. He's had a very long journey to the place where he is today, but he's owned those mistakes, owned up to them, and he's evolved.

And that's what leadership looks like. I haven't seen anyone who has connected with working voters in recent years from our party like he does. And as long as he owns up to his mistakes and says, what I did at that time was wrong, then I think we should give him the benefit of the doubt.

BLITZER: Democratic Senator Martin Heinrich of New Mexico, thanks very much for joining us.

HEINRICH: Great to see you, Wolf.

[11:55:00]

BLITZER: Pamela.

BROWN: All right, Wolf.

Thank you to everybody for joining us this morning. You can keep up with us on social media @WolfBlitzer and @PamelaBrownCNN. We will see you back here tomorrow morning and every weekday morning at 10:00 a.m. Eastern.

BLITZER: And "INSIDE POLITICS WITH DANA BASH" starts right after a very quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DANA BASH, CNN HOST: Today on INSIDE POLITICS: stacking the deck, a new move by Republicans to give the president exactly what he asked for, new congressional maps that could put the GOP on a glide path to keeping the House majority.