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Amazon Looking to Replace Some Workers With Robots?; Supreme Court Considers National Guard Case; Interview With Rep. Gregory Meeks (D-NY). Aired 11:30a-12p ET

Aired October 22, 2025 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Happening now: The House minority leader, Hakeem Jeffries, and other Democrats are holding a hearing on the impact of the government shutdown now in day 22. There's still no deal in sight to end the partisan deadlock up on Capitol Hill and at the White House.

Joining us now to discuss this and more is Congressman Gregory Meeks of New York. He's the top Democrat on the House Foreign Affairs Committee.

Congressman, thanks so much for joining us.

As you know, House Republicans passed what they say is a clean short- term funding bill, but most congressional Democrats refused to support it. I know you want to address the Affordable Care Act subsidies set to expire at the end of the year, but why not vote to fund the government, at least for now, and then negotiate on the subsidies later while the government is open?

REP. GREGORY MEEKS (D-NY): Well, clearly, the Republicans don't want to negotiate.

We have tried. I mean, the president has met with all parties one time since he's been president of the United States, once, and so the willingness to meet, to negotiate is not there. He would rather shut the government down than to meet and to negotiate.

It makes perfectly good sense to sit down and negotiate, particularly when you know the crisis that's about to happen if, in fact, the affordable care tax cuts -- tax credits are not continued. That happens really on November 1. They say, let's negotiate, let's talk in December.

Well, it's too late. The urgency is right now, and the president and the House Republicans have just walked away. The House Republicans have been on vacation for the past month, basically. We don't know where they are. And the president has been absent. And the first meeting that we had, Hakeem Jeffries and Senator Schumer

and the rest of the -- and the two Republican leaders, was really compelled by Democrats saying, let's meet. And you're hearing the same cry. Where is the president?

I can recall in prior -- whether it was a Democratic president or a Republican president, they always were in the White House talking and trying to negotiate before we got to this point. It seems as though, with this administration and these Republican leaders, they just don't want to do that. They'd rather shut the government down.

BLITZER: And, at least at this point, it looks like there's no end in sight to this government shutdown. Let's hope there's a deal coming up at some point.

Let me get to some other issues, Congressman, while I have you. On the war between Russia and Ukraine right now, President Trump seemed to suggest yesterday that a meeting with the Russia leader Vladimir Putin may be -- quote -- "a waste of time" after planning for their meeting to be taking place in Budapest, Hungary. It was put on hold.

We also saw Russia launch a large-scale air attack on Ukraine earlier today, killing at least six people, including, and this is heartbreaking, 6-month-old baby at a day care center, according to Ukrainian authorities.

What does President Trump need to do now to get Putin to stop this brutal war?

MEEKS: Well, it's clear that President Trump is not going to do anything. I keep saying each time that you have heard Trump say, well, I'm going to make Russia do this, or I'm going to sanction Russia, or Russia's going to pay, or I'm upset with Russia, there's never any follow-through.

We often hear him talking about peace through strength. Well, when it comes to Russia, it's weakness -- appeasement for weakness. And that's all he does is appeases Russia, appeases Putin. Sometimes, I scratch my head and say, what does Putin have over Donald Trump,because it seems as though the whole world, the rest of the world, particularly all of our allies, can see and know who the aggressor is in this war that has lasted.

And the whole world also knows that, if we come together, our European allies, our NATO allies, even our allies in Asia, from around the world, and give the Ukrainians what it needs to defend itself, they will beat Russia. There's no question, because when they were receiving the weapons from the Biden administration, it was a dead heat and pushing back.

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And, in fact, all of us was talking about giving Ukraine ATACMS, now it's Tomahawks, because that then will push Russia back. And guess what? Putin seemed to have been waiting all that period of time to see what took place and hoping that Trump won the elections, because he must have known, and we believe it's clear from even the first Trump administration, that Trump would do nothing against Putin and Russia, that, in fact, Trump wants to be Putin.

Because how Trump tries to go around Congress for everything, like Putin can go around the Duma for everything. So he wants to do a parade like Russia does it. Everything that he wants to do is -- and we saw also how he treated Zelenskyy on the first time that he had the meeting in the White House. And then we saw how he treated Putin just recently in Alaska with a red carpet.

So that means something. And his words are idle. When he says he's going to do something against Russia, clearly, he's not.

BLITZER: You're the top Democrat, the ranking member of the House Foreign Affairs Committee, Congressman. As you know, the vice president, J.D. Vance, is in Israel today meeting with Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. The vice president says he's -- quote -- "optimistic" the Gaza cease-fire will hold.

You're well-briefed on all of this. Are you optimistic?

MEEKS: Yes, I'm very -- I'm hopeful.

Look, we have an opportunity. It's hard, though. It's going to be hard. I'm so thankful that the hostages are home and safe in Israel. I'm thankful for the 20-point agreement. I think it's good, but the devil is in the detail. So we are in the first half of the first quarter. We have got a lot of work to do next, but there is hope that we could win this and fundamentally change the game.

We can make sure -- and the next part is hard, because we have got to -- but what's good about it is that everybody in the region is aboard, and everybody almost across the world. And so when you talk to the Jordanians, the Egyptians, the folks from Qatar and Saudi Arabia, they are all part of this, along with Israel.

So it's the whole region coming together, trying to determine what the next steps will be, how you could bring in a Palestinian government, how you can basically create a two-state solution, which is something that I think that both the Palestinians want and the people of Israel want, because they want peace. And so it's going to be hard. We have got to be patient. There's going to be things that's going to try our patience.

And so I happen to agree on this issue with President Trump and having somebody on the ground in Israel to make sure that something happens prematurely or someone that doesn't have control over something, and trying to make sure that Israel is secure also on the ground, so that we can make sure that the cease-fire does not break up and we go back to where we were, and stop the innocent deaths that are occurring in the Middle East.

BLITZER: One quick point before I let you go, Congressman.

As you know, a lot of people in Israel would support what's called a two-state solution, Israel and a new state of Palestine, but the prime minister and his coalition government strongly oppose any Palestinian state. What do you say to him about that?

MEEKS: Well, here's where I hope that the president of the United States, who seems to have a good relationship, and the rest of the world stays and comes together, so that the right-wing part of Mr. Netanyahu's government and himself do not go away from where the Israeli people are.

The Israeli people want peace. They just want to live. I have visited Israel several times. They just want to be able to have a Jewish state and live in peace with their neighbors. That's why I agreed also at the time when we had the Abraham Accords, because, for the first time, you had these states that were saying that Israel has the right to exist.

And that's why I'm hopeful now, because, as countries in the Gulf area start saying that Israel has the right to exist, then we should be able to have a peaceful resolution that can be utilized through diplomacy, as opposed to the kind of death and destruction that some had called for Israel in the past.

BLITZER: All right, Congressman Gregory Meeks of New York, thanks so much for joining us.

MEEKS: Thank you for having me, Wolf.

BLITZER: And for more on the real-world impacts of the government shutdown, I want to bring in Mike Galletly. He's the president of the American Federation of Government Employees Local 4016. He was furloughed from his job at the Department of Agriculture when the shutdown began and has been working for the federal government some -- for some 12 years.

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Mike, explain to our viewers what you and your family have been going through over these past few weeks now that the government has been shut down.

MICHAEL GALLETLY, PRESIDENT, AFGE LOCAL 4016: Good morning, Wolf. Thank you for having me on.

Some of the things we are going through, this is my third government shutdown, so we have taken steps to prepare for this kind of thing. We have we have got some savings. We have a pretty good handle on our bills. So we're probably -- we're in good shape, I would say, for a good two, three months. Hopefully, it won't be that long.

But a lot of the people that are in my local, people I serve in my local, aren't in this position. Some of our newer, younger employees, of course, they don't have that kind of savings. Some of our older -- our older people who are close to retirement, their money is tied up in various things.

So, for a lot of our people, and especially our people who are working right now who are excepted and working without pay, this is getting harder and harder. BLITZER: I understand you were forced to apply for unemployment insurance and you're seeking out relief on your mortgage and car payments at the same time.

Did you ever think in your life that somebody who works for the federal government for 12 years in the Department of Agriculture would face a situation like this?

GALLETLY: Well, it's not something that you would expect ever have to do when you have a decent job. Nobody joins the federal government, goes to work for the federal government expecting to get rich. And so we live within our means.

But, as you said, I'm like most people. I have a mortgage. I have car payments. We have reached out to the banks that service those loans. And we're working with them. Right now, we can pay those -- we can pay those notes. I don't know how much longer we're going to be able to do that.

But we have already been in talks with them about what we can do in case that really becomes an issue.

BLITZER: Mike Galletly, good luck to you. Good luck to all those federal workers who are now without a job and without pay. Thanks very much for joining us.

GALLETLY: Thank you, sir.

BLITZER: And we will have more news right after this.

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BLITZER: New this morning, the U.S. Supreme Court could soon decide whether President Trump has the authority to deploy U.S. National Guard troops on the streets of Chicago, this just after a federal judge gave the green light for the deployment of troops in Portland, Oregon.

The White House is asking justices to weigh in on whether lower courts were right in blocking the deployment of these troops to an ICE facility in Chicago suburbs, citing the need to fight crime and protect federal officials.

Trump says the Portland ruling empowers him to send troops into any city he sees fit. Listen.

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DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I can send the National Guard if I see problems. We have the right to use the National Guard to put out trouble. Well, that's how I got elected, one of the reasons I got elected.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BLITZER: I want to bring CNN senior political and global affairs commentator Rahm Emanuel. He's also the former mayor of Chicago, knows a lot about the city.

Rahm, thanks very much for joining us.

RAHM EMANUEL, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL AND GLOBAL AFFAIRS COMMENTATOR: Thanks, Wolf.

BLITZER: What do you make of the president's remarks there?

EMANUEL: Well, look, I mean, here's the deal, is that this idea of sending the National Guard to fight crime, we weren't having tear gas on the streets of Chicago until the National Guard showed up.

And, in fact, 20 police officers of the police department of the city of Chicago were tear gassed. And there was a consensus of dealing with immigrants who had -- illegal immigrants who had a criminal record. But near a school, near where I live, there are -- literally outside in unmarked cards waiting for parents to pick up their kids.

That is not the immigration challenge we have as a country. And as it relates to crime, look, there is a challenge on public safety. It is not about the National Guard here for five weeks. It's about permanently increasing the police department, training them to do community policing and then using the resources not only to put them on the street, but getting kids, gangs and guns off the street.

The U.S. attorney office could be going after the Latin Kings, the Latin Disciples -- the Gangster Disciples, going after gang members who are the hardened criminals creating the bulk of the crime here. At no point has the Trump administration said to mayors across the country, what do you need? Where can we partner?

Because from putting more police on the beat and getting kids, guns and gangs off the street, the federal government can be a major partner. The National Guard here for a month or two months, when they leave, the problems are still there. And they're not actually solving the public safety issue.

BLITZER: And on that point, Rahm, I know you have said before that the deployment of these Guard troops potentially could help Chicago if, it's a huge if, if troops were focused on crime.

But over the last week, as you point out, we have seen protests taking place throughout your city. How do you think it would play out if troops were there?

EMANUEL: No, I don't think troops are the solution. I have always thought community -- look, let me back up.

Defunding the police was a bad idea. Sending in the National Guard is even dumber than dumb. The answer is community policing and increasing the police force and the training of the forces so you have a permanent presence in doing community policing.

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National Guard don't know who's a good resident on a block and who's the troubled house where gangbangers may be hanging out. They don't have any sense of how to do an after-school program, make sure kids have something to do when the bell rings after the school day. They don't have anything to do with prosecuting the prominent gangs that are causing the overwhelming amount of gun violence in the city of Chicago.

So, to me, it is about local police that know the community, know the residents, know the trouble, where the trouble spots are, and then doing it in a coordinated community police fashion, putting that pressure, but then doing all the other things that are important for public safety. Target the overwhelming amount of gangs that are creating the overwhelming amount of the problems.

Get kids positive activities off the street and then focus on the guns and the drugs that are coming into the city. That is a comprehensive plan, of which National Guard, mainly deployed at an immigration facility, is not doing anything on public safety. If anything, they're making this situation, as I said, worse because they're actually using tear gas, not only against citizens, who have the First Amendment rights, but against police officers.

That is not a public safety strategy.

BLITZER: As you know, Rahm, today marks three full weeks since the federal government shutdown started, and there doesn't appear to be an end in sight. I know you have been involved in a lot of political dealmaking over the years.

You're a former White House chief of staff. You're a former congressman yourself. What's it going to take for this awful government shutdown to end?

EMANUEL: Pain, full stop. And, right now, neither the members of Congress or the White House feel the pain. The American people are feeling it, but they haven't yet expressed it.

I think somewhere around the national holidays, you're going to get where people can't get to see the families for Thanksgiving, and the shutdown and then around the FAA will bring that type of pain. But let me be clear about this, which is on two levels.

One part of the administration is sending $20 billion to Argentina for a bailout, no questions asked. Twenty million Americans are losing their health care, and health care costs today are now at the highest level, 27 million -- $27,000 for a family of four.

Why is Argentina getting $20 billion and 20 million Americans are losing their health care? And I think this is really simple to solve. Republicans want a clean continuing resolution. You get that vote. Same day, stacked up is the proposal on how to restore health care support for the 20 million Americans who are now losing it under the Big Beautiful Bill. You just have two separate votes. Everybody gets a win, and we get the

government back operating, and people get their health care operating. But the idea that Argentina is getting a bailout, literally with no changes or reforms, and 20 million Americans are not only losing their health care, but our soybean farmers and our ranchers are losing market share to Argentina and ranchers and farmers.

BLITZER: Yes.

EMANUEL: This is a bum deal. And really, for a guy who wrote a book said "The Art of the Deal," well, this is -- it may be art, but it looks a lot more like modern art than a deal.

BLITZER: Yes, Trump wrote the book "The Art of the Deal."

And the longer this government shutdown is, the more pain will be impacted -- will be going forward.

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BLITZER: Rahm, thank you very, very much.

EMANUEL: Yes, I do -- thank you, Wolf.

BLITZER: All right, we will take a quick break.

Coming up, Amazon's far-reaching plans to replace more than half-a- million human workers with robots.

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BLITZER: New this morning, "The New York Times" is reporting on internal documents over at Amazon that show the company plans to replace, get this, half-a-million jobs, half-a-million jobs with robots.

CNN tech reporter Clare Duffy is joining us right now.

Clare, put this into perspective for us. How significant is this?

CLARE DUFFY, CNN TECH REPORTER: Yes, Wolf, this is potentially really significant.

According to these documents that were obtained by "The Times," Amazon thinks that its investments in A.I. are going to help it avoid hiring 600,000 human workers that it would otherwise need by 2033. And that's despite the fact that the company plans to double the number of products it is selling in that time.

The company also reportedly planning to automate 75 percent of the work that happens in its warehouses. And "The Times" also reports that it's trying to come up with communication strategies to mitigate the fallout in the communities where people might see these job losses. Now, Amazon is pushing back on this. The company say these documents

paint a misleading picture of its overall hiring strategy and noted that it is a major employer. Here's what an Amazon spokesperson told me.

She said: "The materials appear to reflect the perspective of just one team and don't represent our overall hiring strategy across our various operations and business lines now or moving forward. No company has created more jobs in America over the past decade than Amazon."

But we have heard this sort of thing before about A.I. taking jobs from Amazon itself. Amazon CEO Andy Jassy said back in June that the company does expect that efficiency gains from A.I. will mean a smaller human work force in the future.

And as I talk to experts about what this is going to look like in the near term, I think what people can really expect is that these tech companies are going to continue to grow their revenue and their profits, but they don't have to keep hiring. And we're already starting to see this trend play out.

If you take a look at Amazon's head count over the past five years, you can see that head count sort of starts to level out, but that revenue number continues to grow. So I think that's likely what we will see in the near term, although we could see some of these bigger layoffs impacting more workers in the years to come, Wolf.

BLITZER: All right, Clare Duffy reporting for us. Lots going on. Thank you very, very much.

And, to our viewers, thanks very much for joining us this morning. We will see you back here tomorrow morning, every weekday morning 10:00 a.m. Eastern for two hours of THE SITUATION ROOM.

"INSIDE POLITICS WITH DANA BASH" starts right now.