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The Situation Room

Interview With Jonathan Karl; Combating Antisemitism. Aired 11:30a-12p ET

Aired November 03, 2025 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:30:01]

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: And then at that point, the judges in that district have to choose.

Now, the problem here is that Donald Trump already did that with Lindsey Halligan's predecessor, a guy named Erik Siebert, who essentially was forced out, in part because he refused to bring this very case. And so Comey's argument here is that the president cannot just name a person for 120 days, then a separate person for another 120 days, and keep on doing that.

Otherwise, it would defeat the whole purpose here. So that's another argument that Comey's making. Letitia James is making the same argument. She's been charged in the same district. And if that succeeds, it actually could end up vacating both of those cases.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: If Comey does win any of these motions, Elie, does that mean the case is over?

HONIG: Essentially, yes. If a district court, a trial court, where we are now, grants a motion to dismiss, the case is over, and there is not a jury trial.

Now, the prosecutors can appeal up to the Court of Appeals, but it's really hard to get this type of a decision from a district court judge overturned. And the other thing, Wolf, that we need to keep in mind, again, Letitia James' case is looming there in the same district.

And so if Comey wins on one of these cases, it could be, not necessarily for sure, but it will be a good sign for Letitia James as well.

BLITZER: All right, Elie Honig reporting for us.

Elie, thank you very, very much -- Pamela.

HONIG: Thanks, Wolf.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: Always good to have Elie on the show.

BLITZER: Yes, it is.

BROWN: Just ahead: honoring the voices that illuminate truth, confront hate and fight antisemitism. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:35:46]

BLITZER: This morning, we want to shine a light on the ongoing fight against antisemitism.

Last week, I attended the Simon Wiesenthal Humanitarian Awards Ceremony in Los Angeles. It's an annual event that pulls together many of Hollywood's power players to raise money to help combat antisemitism.

CNN entertainment correspondent Elizabeth Wagmeister us now from Los Angeles.

Elizabeth, you and I were at that dinner together. We were at the same table, and we spoke about how important and meaningful this event was.

ELIZABETH WAGMEISTER, CNN ENTERTAINMENT CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Wolf, it really was a meaningful event.

And, as you know, I have been covering antisemitism and Hollywood since October 7. And the reality is, is, there is a deep divide in the entertainment industry about how to tackle this issue. So to see so many leaders from the top entertainment businesses in the world all in the same room to stand up against Jewish hate was incredibly powerful.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OMER SHEM TOV, FREED ISRAELI HOSTAGE: It is important to me -- for me to take this opportunity to commemorate those who were not as fortunate to be here with us today.

WAGMEISTER (voice-over): Omer Shem Tov, a 23-year-old released Israeli hostage who was held by Hamas for 505 days, was among those honored by the Simon Wiesenthal Center at their annual gala in Beverly Hills, California, which raised $4.3 million for the human rights organization's mission of global education to combat hate against the Jewish people.

Warner Bros. discovery CEO David Zaslav received the humanitarian award, which was presented by Steven Spielberg, who has worked to preserve testimonies of Holocaust survivors through his Shoah Foundation at the University of Southern California, which he founded more than 30 years ago.

Spielberg was one of many power players rubbing shoulders during a particularly tense time of great upheaval and uncertainty in the entertainment and media industries, notably a possible sale of Warner Bros. Discovery that looms over Hollywood. But...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tonight is a celebration.

WAGMEISTER: ... for the evening, corporate adversaries traded boardrooms for the ballroom, including Paramount's David Ellison, who CNN previously reported has made overtures to buy Warner Bros. Discovery. CNN is owned by Warner Bros. Discovery.

Oprah Winfrey, Gloria Steinem, and power agent Ari Emanuel were among those who paid tribute to Zaslav's efforts fighting antisemitism in a video that preluded his speech, where he spoke about the power of storytelling and the significance of a free press, referencing news coverage in Poland, saying -- quote -- "When the government controls the news, that is the end of democracy."

DAVID ZASLAV, CEO, WARNER BROS. DISCOVERY: I stand here tonight proudly as a Jewish man whose family came from Eastern Europe, escaped prosecution, persecution, and realized the promise of America. They're a daily reminder to never forget to tell the stories and fight for ideals that keep us safe and free, even when it's hard.

Also honored, CNN's own Dana Bash, who received the Jewish Heritage Award for her reporting on the rise of antisemitism in America and around the world.

DANA BASH, CNN HOST: What I learned doing this reporting was that antisemitism begets more antisemitism. That's why, on October 7, I instantly knew that the barbaric, disgusting murder of more than 1,200 men, women, and children, the capture of more than 250 hostages, I knew that, along with the condemnation, there would be people justifying it and even unleashing more hatred towards Jews.

What I didn't anticipate was the widespread twisting of facts, truth, and reality that exploded around the world, especially here in this country.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WAGMEISTER: And, Wolf, I know that, of course, for you and Dana, this is a very important issue, you coming from Holocaust survivors, Dana's family that perished in the Holocaust.

[11:40:10]

So to see our very own Dana Bash honored for her remarkable reporting before and after October 7 on the dangerous rise in antisemitism, it was really special to be in that room.

BLITZER: It certainly was. I'm so proud of Dana indeed.

BROWN: As we all are.

All right, thanks so much, Elizabeth.

And let's bring in our friend and colleague, as we like to call you, Dana, and honoree. So, congratulations first of all.

BASH: Not -- I'm not too embarrassed right now.

(LAUGHTER)

BROWN: No. She held up a piece of paper.

(CROSSTALK)

(LAUGHTER)

BROWN: I was like, you're on TV every day.

BASH: No. Well, thank you. Thank you. It was so fantastic that you were there.

BLITZER: It was really beautiful.

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: Yes.

BASH: And your beautiful wonderful wife, Lynn, and the way that you honored everybody who was there, including and especially a former hostage and a wonderful woman who not only escaped on October 7, but escaped with the help of bedouins. And she spoke beautifully about the fact that there is unity among many Israeli, Jewish and Arab people.

But I do want to say that something happened after that dinner over the weekend that I think is important to point out. There was a meeting in Las Vegas with the Republicans. They were gathering for the Republican Jewish Coalition's summit.

And there were a number of Republicans, some Jewish, like Randy Fine, new congressman from Florida, but some not like Ted Cruz of Texas, who were calling out growing antisemitism on the far right, specifically by name Tucker Carlson for the things that he has said and the fact that he did an interview with Nick Fuentes, who is an, I mean, unabashed -- he's a Holocaust denier.

He's done a lot of things that are just clearly full of hate. And the fact that you had these Republicans saying that this is something that we need to stand up against is really important. And I think that we should spotlight that, because over -- since October 7 and in the run- up to the election, we saw so much of the Republican focus on the growing antisemitism on the far left.

But it's certainly not just there. It's on the far right as well. And we're seeing that creep up. And the fact that you have Republicans speaking out about that is worth spotlighting.

BROWN: Yes, such an important issue.

BLITZER: Very good point indeed.

Dana, congratulations once again. As you know, we all love you.

BROWN: We do.

BASH: Right back at you.

BLITZER: OK. Thank you very much.

BROWN: Thanks, Dana. BASH: You guys are the best.

BLITZER: And coming up: retribution, redemption and the road back to the White House, the author of an explosive new book about the 2024 Trump campaign standing by to join us here in THE SITUATION ROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:47:51]

BLITZER: New this morning, President Trump's disapproval rating hits a two-term high. CNN polling finds that 63 percent of Americans disapprove of the way he's handling his job as president. That's one point above the previous high of 62 percent as he was leaving office back in January of 2021.

Joining us now is someone who has covered Donald Trump for decades. Jonathan Karl is the chief Washington correspondent for ABC News and the author of a very important brand-new book entitled "Retribution: Donald Trump and the Campaign That Changed America."

Jonathan, thanks so much for joining us.

As many of us remember, you wrote another important book called "Betrayal" about President Trump's then downfall around January 6. What do you make of the fact that his disapproval rating is now the highest of either term, even compared to that period of time?

JONATHAN KARL, AUTHOR, "RETRIBUTION: DONALD TRUMP AND THE CAMPAIGN THAT CHANGED AMERICA": It's stunning. It's remarkable, Wolf.

I think that it has a lot to do with President Trump's campaign of retribution. He won the election. He won it rather decisively, largely a rejection of the Biden presidency, but he won in part determined to get even with his enemies.

And that has been a defining line that has carried through from his very first day in office of a second term until where we are now and clearly something that he is not planning to deviate from.

BLITZER: Do you expect, Jonathan, that this will hurt the Republican candidates in New Jersey and Virginia in those governor's races at all tomorrow?

KARL: Well, we're going to find out tomorrow. Those races obviously are largely driven by local events, Wolf, but we have seen something throughout Trump's time on the political scene, which is, he has managed to win, of course, two very key elections, 2016, 2024.

But the -- those midterm races, those off-year races, Republican candidates have generally not done as well, including, most famously, 2022. Things looked really bad. Trump was a drag on the ticket for candidates running for governor and senator around the country, bad night for Republicans.

[11:50:10] And then he comes back two years and wins. So I would caution us from reading too much into the results tomorrow in terms of what it means for Trump.

BLITZER: I want to play a little bit of what President Trump told "60 Minutes" last night. Watch and listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: And actually "60 Minutes" paid me a lot of money. And you don't have to put this on because I don't want to embarrass you, and I'm sure you're not. You have a great -- I think you have a great new leader, frankly, because the young woman that's leading your whole enterprise is a great -- from what I know -- I don't know her, but I hear she's a great person.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: You have been on the receiving end of President Trump's criticism as a member of the news media yourself, yet he continues to call on you for questions and even jokes with you.

How do you explain this sort of paradox in how President Trump operates with the press?

KARL: You know, it's central to how he's operated even before he got into politics. I detail through the arc of this book, among other things, a series of on-the-record conversations that I had with Donald Trump throughout the campaign.

As we approached Election Day last year, I was talking to him virtually every day. I talked to him actually on Election Day. I talked to him at about 7:30 in the morning the day after the election, a rather interesting call that I detail in the very opening of the book.

And at times he gets -- he's gotten very angry at me, as he alluded to. He's called me some vicious names in public before the cameras in front of millions of people. And, invariably, privately, the message tends to be quite different. He has gotten angry at me in private as well. He's also praised me in public.

You don't really know. And I know my approach to journalism is something, frankly, Wolf, that I -- in part, I learned from you back in the day as a CNN correspondent. Don't let it bother you. It doesn't matter what the president of the United States is saying about you. You're not what matters. Just go out and report without fear and without favor.

BLITZER: I remember those days well when you and I worked together here at CNN, and then you moved on and went over to ABC News. I was disappointed when you left us, but you're doing great.

Your new book -- and here it is, "Retribution," I got a copy of it, "Donald Trump and the Campaign That Changed America," really a terrific book with a lot of great new information. You write in this book about how different President Trump is in private with his political opponents, most notably President Biden.

Tell us a little bit more about that.

KARL: So I went through and I detailed a series of conversations and meetings that Biden had with Trump, some of which were known, some of which were not, beginning with a phone call that Biden placed to Trump just after Trump was shot, the attempted assassination in Butler.

And it was a series of -- I talked in some cases to people that overheard these conversations, directly heard what the two men said to each other. And it is beyond striking how complimentary and friendly Trump was towards Joe Biden repeatedly, and, by the way, the reverse as well, entirely at odds with the way Trump speaks publicly about Biden, including, Wolf, in the book, I bring you inside that presidential limousine as they leave the White House on the day of the inauguration this January 20.

And it's Biden's limo. He's still president and they drive up together in the limo to Capitol Hill, where Trump is sworn in as president. And it's an interesting conversation that they had and something that is -- couldn't be more different with the way Trump talked about Biden on that day in public.

BLITZER: Really amazing reporting. Thank you for doing that.

Based on your reporting for this important brand-new book, retribution, who would you say was the most influential voice in President Trump's ear throughout the 2024 campaign to propel him back to power?

KARL: I think, as always, the most important voice in President Trump's ear is actually President Trump himself.

As I wrote way back when I did my very first book on all of this, "Front Row at the Trump Show," I said Donald Trump is the star, he is the executive producer, he is the chief publicist, he is the person who is calling the shots.

I will say that the most interesting influence on him during the campaign is a guy that was actually in prison for four months of the campaign. He got out literally a week before the election, Steve Bannon. And what I learned is that Steve Bannon was communicating with Trump and with the Trump campaign through code in messages that he was sending from his prison cell in Danbury, Connecticut.

But I don't want to overstate the influence of anybody, including Bannon, because, at the end of the day, Trump is the one that is driving all of this.

[11:55:03]

BLITZER: Jonathan Karl, the author of the new book "Retribution." Here it is once again, I recommend it highly. Go ahead and read it. Enjoy it. You will learn a lot.

Jonathan, thanks very much for joining us. KARL: Thank you, Wolf. It's always great to be with you.

BLITZER: Thank you.

BROWN: And congrats to Jonathan on his book.

And thank you all for joining us this morning. You can keep up with us on social media @WolfBlitzer and @PamelaBrownCNN.

BLITZER: We will see you back here tomorrow morning, every weekday morning, 10:00 a.m. Eastern.

"INSIDE POLITICS WITH DANA BASH" starts right after a quick break.