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The Situation Room

Senate to Vote on Health Care Plans; Congress Questions National Security Officials. Aired 11:30a-12p ET

Aired December 11, 2025 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:30:03]

PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: What can you tell us about that in terms of detaining and deporting Americans?

DANIEL DALE, CNN SENIOR REPORTER: Well, Secretary Noem said during this hearing we have never once detained or deported an American citizen.

And I'm just not sure how she can claim we have never even detained an American citizen. Certainly, as she said, once their citizen status is ascertained, they have been released. But we know there are cases during this administration in which citizens have been detained and sometimes incarcerated, in some cases for days, even though they are citizens.

Now, I'm not saying this is intentional. I'm not saying that there are some deliberate malfeasance here, but during these crackdowns in multiple cities, there have been citizens who have been swept up who have been detained in person or brought to detention facilities by the authorities.

So, yes, maybe not deported, but detained certainly has happened.

BROWN: Yes.

DALE: So I'm not sure if there is any factual basis for that claim.

BROWN: Yes, she said they have never been detained or deported, but then she went on to say, when we find out their identity, then that is when they are released. And so clearly that would indicate that they were detained and then released.

DALE: That's such a great point, absolutely.

BROWN: OK.

All right, stand by, Daniel Dale.

As we continue to monitor this hearing, I want to go to our panel now. We're joined by national security correspondent Kylie Atwood and Andy McCabe.

Let's go to this moment when you heard some questioning between the top Democrat on the committee and the FBI official about the biggest threat facing America, who the FBI says is Antifa. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. BENNIE THOMPSON (D-MS): You say Antifa is a terrorist organization. Tell us, as a committee, how did you come to that? What do they exist? How many members do they have in the United States as of right now?

MICHAEL GLASHEEN, OPERATIONS DIRECTOR, FBI NATIONAL SECURITY BRANCH: Well, that's very fluid. It's ongoing for us to understand that, the same -- no different than al Qaeda and ISIS.

THOMPSON: No, no, I don't want you -- I asked you one question, sir. I just want you to tell us. If you said Antifa is the number one domestic terrorist organization operating in the United States, I just need to know where they are, how many people.

I don't want a name. I don't want anything like that. Just how many people have you identified with the FBI that Antifa is made of?

GLASHEEN: Well, the investigations are active.

THOMPSON: Sir, you wouldn't come to this committee and say something you can't prove, I know. I know you wouldn't do that. But you did.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Quite the moment there.

So I'm going to bring in Andy McCabe. I mean, you were formally with the FBI, acting director. What is your reaction to that? And would the FBI typically be able to answer those questions that we just heard?

ANDREW MCCABE, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Absolutely. Absolutely.

You can't come to the worldwide threats hearing and claim that something is the biggest threat in the United States, the biggest security threat that we face, and then provide zero details or facts about it.

Now, of course, we can't expect the FBI to talk about specific cases or identify individuals under investigation. That's sensitive information. But, very typically, the director or the representative should be able to say, this is what we think about them. Here's how we know about them. Here's how big we think they are. Here's the regions of the country we think they're located in.

And the fact is, as any follower and student of Antifa can tell you, those things are just -- those facts are just not there for Antifa. Antifa is not -- has never been a structured, formal organization with an identified leader or even an identified directive.

They are a loose connection of people who exhibit the same sort of anti-establishment views and violent activity in -- among protests. BROWN: All right, Kylie, I will get you in a moment. But I want to

dip back in because we have Democratic Representative Goldman questioning Kristi Noem on ICE.

REP. ANDREW GARBARINO (R-NY): Time has expired.

REP. DANIEL GOLDMAN (D-NY): I yield.

GARBARINO: I recognize gentlemen from Texas, Mr. Gonzales.

REP. TONY GONZALES (R-TX): Thank you, Chairman. Thank you, Secretary Noem. Thank you, Director Kent and Director Glasheen, for your patriotism, your service to our country. Thank you to the families for allowing...

BROWN: All right, so we just missed that exchange. Hopefully, we can talk about that a little bit.

But, Kylie, just going back to Antifa, you have reporting and understanding about what the facts are and how they stack up against what we heard in this hearing.

KYLIE ATWOOD, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, listen, I think the point that Andy just made is that the FBI should be able to describe the details that back up a statement that they're going to make before members of Congress in a briefing like this.

Particularly when they don't have the FBI director, the person who is there should be able to provide facts. I also think one interesting thing that we're seeing in this hearing is this clear split screen between how the Democrats and how the Republicans are questioning the folks who are on this panel.

[11:35:08]

One tactic that the Democrats have used, multiple members of Congress now, is that they have actually brought people into the room who are immigrants who have come to the United States who have no past of anything that they have done illegally.

In fact, multiple of them have actually served the U.S. in the military, and they have put those folks in front of these Trump administration officials as examples of immigrants who have come to the U.S. and made this country better. And they even asked Kristi Noem to thank one of the men who was there for their service.

I think it's an interesting tactic because the Democrats are in recognition that they might not be getting a ton of details out of these officials, but they are certainly trying to use this moment to highlight what they believe is the way that this administration is doing immigration wrong.

They are not going after the people who they should be going after. They're going after people who have contributed to the United States.

BROWN: And you're also seeing the tactic from the Republicans emphasizing what happened during the Biden administration. And we heard this number from the intelligence official who claimed that 18,000 known or suspected terrorists were let in under the Biden administration.

What is your reaction to that, Andy?

MCCABE: Well, here's an example of the director of NCTC bringing detail, but a very questionable origin.

That is an astronomically high number of people who historically would have been considered to be -- fallen into that category of known or suspected terrorists. And it raises all sorts of good questions, none of which we heard here today, about, how are they determining that?

What have they done to the threshold or the formula by which people are included in that group? We are -- we can't ignore the fact that this administration now refers to pretty much anyone involved in drug trafficking as a terrorist.

They routinely talk about international terrorist organizations like Tren de Aragua, which is arguably a narcotics gang in Venezuela, but not one that's ever been particularly relevant here. So, I think that very large number of known and suspected terrorists raises a lot of good questions about, how are you defining these people?

And, if so, what are we doing about it?

BROWN: All right, I'm going to interrupt you, because she's talking about that oil tanker that was seized. Let's listen in.

KRISTI NOEM, U.S. HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: ... covering and flooding our country with deadly drugs and killing our next generation of Americans.

Just the drugs that the Coast Guard has been able to interdict on the waters since that President Trump has been in office has been enough lethal doses of cocaine to kill 177 million Americans. That's two- thirds of our country that has been saved by blowing up, by going after and bringing to justice these individuals that are out at sea and those individuals that are funding it with a shadow fleet of sanctioned oil that should never be sold to benefit their profits and their pockets to kill Americans.

GONZALES: Thank you for that update.

For many of us that served in uniform, oftentimes, it was overseas. It was in the Middle East or it was in Asia or it was in Europe. And I think those AORs are very important. But for too long, president after president after president, our backyard has been left wide open.

And we are completely shocked why all these terrorists are in our country and all these people are unvetted, all this chaos is happening, when in our own backyard was unsafe. So thank you again for, one -- I know you traveled. You met with heads of state. El Salvador, Mexico are a couple that come to mind. But I just want to thank you and for making our backyard a priority

and ultimately to keep Americans safe. Texans are more safe today than we were a year ago. And a lot of that is due to President Trump and due to the leadership that I'm seeing right here of executing those policies. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

With that, Chairman, I yield back.

GARBARINO: The gentleman yields back.

I now recognize the gentlelady from Illinois Ms. Ramirez for five minutes of questions.

REP. DELIA RAMIREZ (D-IL): Thank you, Chairman.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NOEM: ... American citizens have been arrested or detained. We focus on those that are here illegally.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAMIREZ: Secretary Noem, you lie and you lie to the American people. I will be including into the record an article by ProPublica from October 16, 2025, entitled: "We found that more than 170 U.S. citizens have been held by immigration agents. They have been kicked."

There's nothing to be smiling about U.S. citizens. I'm sorry. That's very inappropriate. Let me continue.

(CROSSTALK)

RAMIREZ: They have been kicked, dragged and detained for days.

The next one.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NOEM: The Trump administration has specifically targeted the worst of the worst. The individuals that we are going after are those that are violent criminals, those that are breaking our laws.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[11:40:00]

RAMIREZ: You -- Secretary Noem, again, you lied to the American people. I will be including the article -- into the record an article by the NBC News from December 7, 2025, entitled: "ICE has arrested nearly 75,000 people with no criminal records, data shows."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RAMIREZ: ... co-equal branch of government. And it is your obligation as a member of the executive branch to honor decisions made by the highest court of the land. Yes or no, Secretary? NOEM: We are inviting by all federal judges' orders.

QUESTION: So the Justice Department said that, when the administration was ordered back in March to stop sending detained migrants to a mega-prison in El Salvador, you personally made the final call to continue the flights anyway. Is that correct?

NOEM: And the decisions that are made on deportations, where flights go and when they go are my decision at the Department of Homeland Security. We will continue to do the right thing, continue to work and do -- protect Americans, no matter what radical judge comes out and tries to stop us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAMIREZ: You lied on the record and you lied to members of this committee. You violated court orders by not turning around deportation flights bound for El Salvador, where we know that hundreds of people under your leadership have reported that they were raped, they were beaten and they nearly died.

And your agents used chemical weapons in Chicago, despite court orders from District Court Judge Ellis forbidding their use. Secretary Noem, you, Gregory Bovino, and your ICE, CBP and DHS deputized agents have waged an unaccountable, unlawful, unconstitutional war against communities across the nation.

Our residents have been surveilled. They have been threatened. They have been tear gassed. They have been hit with pepper balls. They have been shot. They have been subjected to warrantless arrests and precision and mobilization maneuvers. They have been kidnapped and disappeared under your leadership.

So we have a lot to talk about, but you and your department continue to reject congressional oversight. And you know how I know this? I know this because I requested a meeting with ICE Field Office Director Russell Hott. I requested a meeting with Field Office Director Samuel Olson.

And when you came to Chicago on October 3, I publicly and formally requested a meeting with you. So I'm going to be including a letter I sent on October 3 requesting a meeting with Secretary Noem.

So, Secretary Noem, I want to ask you again, will you commit to meet with me, yes or no?

NOEM: Yes, absolutely.

RAMIREZ: Thank you. Thank you. So we have a lot to talk about, and actually my scheduler has a couple of dates that I will get to you after this meeting. I appreciate that.

So, look, I want to be very clear. You have misused resources appropriated by Congress. You have engaged in unethical behavior. You have repeatedly made false and misleading statements to Congress and to the press, and you have undermined the separation of powers and disregarded the role of Congress and the courts.

Bottom line, you lie with impunity. You reject checks and balances, and you ignore Congress and the courts. Your options are limited. Either you're going to resign, Trump's going to fire you, or you will be impeached.

I have already called for your resignation. You may remember I hand- delivered my request to you back in May, and I urge you to reconsider resignation, because I have taken the first step towards your impeachment, and I have called on the Judiciary Committee to open an investigation into your lawlessness.

Mr. Chairman, I know that at the end we will be entering a number of articles into consent, but since I have a few moments, I ask unanimous consent to enter into the record a letter calling the Judiciary Committee to investigate Secretary Noem's impeachable offenses.

Whatever you choose, the American people will have justice, Secretary, and you will be held accountable. I'm going to make sure of that every single day.

With that, Mr. Chair, I yield back.

BROWN: All right, we're going to take a quick break. We will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:48:46]

BROWN: All right, we will continue to monitor this worldwide threats hearing and Secretary Kristi Noem's testimony.

But, first, there's some breaking news from Capitol Hill. The Senate is set to vote on dueling plans with the clock ticking toward a major spike in health care costs. Obamacare subsidies are set to expire at the end of this year. Democrats are looking to expand them for three years.

Republicans want to expand health savings accounts, but not directly addressing the expiring tax credits. If nothing is done, millions of Americans could see big increases in their health care costs.

So I want to go to Arlette Saenz on Capitol Hill.

Arlette, do either of these plans stand a chance and is there any movement on a bipartisan deal?

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Pamela, right now it is expected that these votes that are under way at this moment are expected to fail, raising a lot of questions about how exactly senators and members of the House will avert these premiums from spiking in just a few weeks.

Now, the Senate right now is voting on the Republican proposal presented by Senator Bill Cassidy and Mike Crapo. What this does is that it shifts money into health savings accounts for certain Americans, but it does nothing to address those expiring Obamacare subsidies.

What Republicans argue is that their focus right now is trying to lower health care costs. This vote is not expected to pass, and there's a lot of questions about whether all Republicans will in fact be on board with this proposal.

[11:50:08]

Right after this vote, we are expecting another vote on the Democratic plan which would extend subsidies for three years. There is a potential that there could be some Republicans who side with Democrats on this issue, but it also is not expected to get enough of the 60 votes in order to move this along.

So that will really turn a lot of focus after that to the potential for bipartisan talks. There have been bipartisan talks happening behind the scenes among rank-and-file members for months now really, but no one has really coalesced around one plan.

There's efforts in the Senate in the House. But, right now, unless the Senate and House act by the end of the next week, when they head home for the holiday recess, it's most likely that these premiums will spike for millions of Americans come January.

BROWN: All right, Arlette Saenz, thanks for bringing us the latest from Capitol Hill.

I want to go back to the worldwide threats hearing, because Secretary Noem has been asked about the Texas flooding and DHS response.

REP. TIMOTHY KENNEDY (D-NY): ... building resilient infrastructure and communities funds, a program that helps communities reduce their risk of natural disasters.

You withheld millions in FEMA funds for emergency alerting infrastructure, found to be in violation of the Impound Control Act. You, perhaps most critical to my state of New York, canceled more than 90 percent of New York state's homeland security program funding, including $134 million in urban area security initiative funds for New York City's greater metropolitan areas.

You have mismanaged these grants to the point where cities and states, including New York, are suing you to recover counterterrorism funding that's lawfully theirs and that Congress intended for them to receive. It's a tragedy that we're here today discussing these cuts to counterterrorism and security grant funds for a city that was the main site of the September 11 attacks, the entire reason your department was established in the first place.

As the ranking member of the Subcommittee on Emergency Management, it's my responsibility to show the American public how you have systemically upended FEMA and emergency preparedness as we know it.

So I have a couple of questions. Simple yes-or-no answer will suffice. Would you agree with the national security officials' assessment that the United States has been operating in a heightened threat environment for several years now?

NOEM: Yes.

KENNEDY: Yes or no, would you say New York City is susceptible to these kinds of security threats?

NOEM: Yes, and that's why they should spend the $440 million they had in reserve.

(CROSSTALK)

KENNEDY: So, with New York City being the number one terrorist target in the nation...

NOEM: ... the federal government gave them to secure their city that they did not spend. They did not spend the hundreds of millions of dollars they had to secure their city.

(CROSSTALK)

KENNEDY: I reclaim my time.

With New York City being the number one security threat in this nation, it's unconscionable that you would cut $134 million in urban area security initiative funding for the city of New York.

What compelled you to knowingly make our cities less safe with these funding cuts?

NOEM: What compels you, your mayor and your governor to release thousands of criminals on the streets, rather than to turn them over to ICE? You would rather release a murderer out onto...

(CROSSTALK)

NOEM: You should honor our detainers against violent criminals and get them out of New York City.

KENNEDY: Secretary Noem, you cut $134 million in funds to support the security of New York City and the state of New York, the number one threat in this nation, in your own words.

Your cuts are blatantly political, callous and outright dangerous. It's clear you have no interest in countering real threats in the homeland. While high-risk cities and disaster zones wait for help, you have devoted the past 11 months of violent raids, anti-police policies and nonstop photo-ops.

NOEM: I have...

KENNEDY: You have brought shame to a department that was created after 9/11 in a time of unity to protect our people.

Your failure to lead is a direct threat to the homeland security and our nation, and you should resign immediately.

I yield back.

GARBARINO: The gentleman yields back.

I now recognize the gentleman from Alabama, Mr. Strong, for five minutes of questions.

REP. DALE STRONG (R-AL): Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member and members of this committee.

I thank you too to our witnesses for being here today, for your work to protect the homeland in an increasingly complex threat environment.

My question today focuses specifically on the evolving drone threat. Mr. Glasheen, the FBI's national counter UAS training center at Redstone Arsenal is now the center -- central hub for preparing federal, state and local partners for drone threats at major events.

What makes Redstone Arsenal such an effective location for this mission and how does that setting support the scale of training required for World Cup, America 250 and the 2028 Olympics?

GLASHEEN: Thank you for your question, Congressman.

[11:55:02]

What makes Redstone a great partner for us is, one, the support that we have from Congress, number two, number two, the space we have there. The FBI has been in Huntsville for a long time. Huntsville also houses our special agent bomb technician program, where we train bomb technicians, EOD professionals across the United States.

And we model in the counter-UAS school off of that. So that proof of concept has been in place, and we're mirroring that process to train the U.S. operators.

STRONG: Thank you.

I was there for the inaugural graduation. I'm telling you, it was most impressive. I can assure you there's no other location in the country that offers the same mix of controlled airspace, testing ranges, partnered agencies.

BROWN: You have been listening to the worldwide threats hearing with DHS Secretary Noem, as well as other officials in the Trump administration in law enforcement and intelligence.

And we heard some feisty lines of questioning there, particularly from Democrats, on the administration's handling of undocumented immigrants and Americans who were swept up. And also from Republicans, we heard there the Republicans are in the committee questioning the Biden administration and the threats that they say came from those who were let in under the Biden administration.

Kristi Noem fiercely defending the Trump administration and its efforts.

So we will continue to monitor this. Thank you so much for joining us this morning.

"INSIDE POLITICS" with our friend and colleague Manu Raju starts right after this.