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The Situation Room

"New Lead" in Search for Brown University Shooter; Boat Strikes Briefing from Hegseth and Rubio; Trump Doubles Down on Criticism of Rob Reiner; WH Ballroom Battle Heads to Court. Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired December 16, 2025 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:30:00]

SCOTT CURTIS, FORMER FBI AGENT: And everybody has unique characteristics there that people notice, especially if you're in contact with those people on a regular basis there. What he was doing for two hours before, that's a good question.

Based on my experience, I think that maybe he was waiting for either a certain person or certain conditions there to initiate this attack. That's why I would question of whether he knew somebody personally that he thought was going to be in that location at that time, and he was waiting for that time that he thought that that person would arrive to initiate this attack. But again, for two hours in that neighborhood there, he was taking a lot of risk exposing himself to somebody who may have reported him as a suspicious person in that area.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Former FBI agent Scott Curtis, thanks very much for joining us.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Thank you.

BLITZER: And just ahead, the L.A. prosecutor is about to get the case involving Rob and Michele Reiner's deaths. Police say their son Nick Reiner is responsible. We'll take a closer look at the next steps, what we should anticipate. We're getting more information. You're in the Situation Room.

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[10:35:00]

BROWN: Happening now, lawmakers are preparing for classified briefings from Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth and Secretary of State Marco Rubio about the military strikes on alleged drug boats. This comes as the U.S. carried out strikes yesterday against three more boats believed to have been trafficking drugs in the Eastern Pacific. Eight people were killed. Hegseth faces bipartisan scrutiny over whether the strikes were legal. He hasn't said if he'll release the full, unedited video of the controversial September 2nd attack in the Caribbean.

BLITZER: Joining us now, Republican Congressman Don Bacon of Nebraska. He serves on the Armed Services Committee, and he is also a U.S. Air Force veteran. Congressman, thanks very much for joining us.

REP. DON BACON (R-NE), AGRICULTURE COMMITTEE AND U.S. AIR FORCE (RET.): Great to be here. Thank you.

BLITZER: Thanks for your service. Appreciate it very much. We know only a select group of lawmakers has actually seen the video of that September second strike attack. Have you seen it, and do you expect Secretaries Hegseth and Rubio will provide it to all members of Congress, perhaps later today?

BACON: I have not seen it yet. I know the chairman of our Armed Services Committee has, and the ranking member, also the chairman of the ranking member of the Intelligence Committee, a few others saw it. Now, after this interview, I'm going to go and listen to the secret briefing that the secretary of defense and the secretary of state is going to give. So, I look forward to hearing more.

You know, I generally am supportive, but I'd like to know about the intelligence. Well, how do we know these boats are carrying the drugs that they're saying that is? I'd like to hear more about the legal justification. But I think all of our families have been touched by death from overdoses or whatever it may be. And so, I have -- I mean, I'm sympathetic, but we should make sure we're doing this right. That's what we do in Congress. We have oversight. And in the end, he should come in and they should ask for authorization.

BLITZER: Do you think you'll see that video later today?

BACON: I hope so. But I really don't know. I'll be there. I'll let you know.

BROWN: Well, you've been pretty outspoken. I mean, you have criticized Secretary Hegseth. You have questioned his leadership at the Pentagon, particularly since the news broke that he was using signal for war plans. Have you sensed a growing frustration, though, among your Republican colleagues in Congress with Hegseth now over these boat strikes and the handling of them?

BACON: I think to a degree yes. I wish that the administration would come to Congress, lay out their case and ask for authorization. If you're just going to do it without our authorization, you're going to get pushback. And I think it's constitutional that they should come and make their case. We don't know what they're doing with Venezuela writ large. I mean, I have no -- they've come and made no case what they're doing. What's the mission? So, I hope to hear some of that today as well.

But my frustrations with the secretary of defense started before he was confirmed. But once he got confirmed, I thought, well, let's give him a fair chance. And he had Signal Gate and he took no responsibility. He should have said, I made a mistake, my fault, instead he tried to blame everybody else.

I'm a five-time commander in the Air Force. That doesn't work. You got to take responsibility. And then there's been other issues. Some of the policies on keeping or getting the media out of the Pentagon or all the rules and engagement they put on the meeting, the Pentagon. I thought that was unnecessary and it's not healthy.

And then they put rules on the military members with their engagement with Congress. So, I have an off at Air Force Base in Omaha area and they can't talk to me unless I run through the Pentagon first. And everybody has that problem. I don't think that's right.

But I'm more concerned about the attitudes towards NATO, Ukraine. I don't see leadership there that takes our alliance. They don't value the alliance the way they should. This -- we've had a 75-year history with NATO and it's worked. And so, I think these guys have undercut our alliance. And I think for the most part, have not been good with Ukraine. And so, that's probably the bigger concern I have.

BLITZER: You've got a lot of concerns. And I know in the past you thought that Hegseth should either be forced out or resign, right?

BACON: Yes. If I was the hiring guy for the secretary, I wouldn't keep him.

BLITZER: You'd let him go.

BACON: I don't like to say that, but it's the Signal Gate tells you everything you need to know. He did something wrong and people make mistakes. I mean --

BLITZER: And let's just remind our viewers that Signal Gate, he was having very sensitive, highly classified details that potentially could endanger U.S. troops on a phone conversation, including with a journalist and several people who had no security clearances whatsoever. That could endanger --

BACON: Two hours before the mission. So, when the F-18s are taken off, when they're going to hit their targets in Yemen. And it's on an unclassified application on an unclassified phone, of which we know, I guarantee about my life savings, China and Russia monitor. And if they would have forwarded that information to Yemen, it could have undermined the safety for our aircrew.

BLITZER: And you served in the Air Force, so you know what it's like. Those pilots could have been endangered.

[10:40:00]

BACON: I'm a signals intelligence officer, so I'm way attuned to this problem. But here's the thing. He denied it being a problem afterwards. That's what bothers me. Everybody makes a mistake. But when you deny -- don't take responsibility, don't own up to it, you blame the media, I think that's worse than the actual mistake.

BLITZER: Good point.

BROWN: All right. I'm going to ask you about something else. We are learning more about the deaths of the legendary actor and director, Rob Reiner, and his wife, Michele, allegedly at the hands of their son. You were among several Republicans who criticized President Trump's response, suggesting Reiner's death stemmed from, quote, "Trump derangement syndrome." I want to play what Speaker Mike Johnson said. Let's watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Speaker, do you condemn Trump's post about Rob Reiner?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What are your thoughts about what President Trump said about Rob Reiner at this press conference today?

REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: I don't do ongoing commentary about everything that's said by everybody in government every day.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's the President of the United States.

JOHNSON: We're trying to bring down health care costs for the American people. There are very important votes, very important issues, and that's what we're focusing on.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A lot of your members are criticizing him.

JOHNSON: I gave commentary this morning, and you all heard it. Thank you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Is that an acceptable response from the leader of House Republicans?

BACON: The speaker's in a tough spot. And he was right. The president gives plenty of ammo out there for people to critique. He has a lack of self-control and not enough restraint on some of the things he says. And his comments on Reiner are case in point. And he got a three-seat majority. I understand the speaker's in a tough spot. But we should have moral clarity here.

What the President said was wrong. And you've got to have a little bit of decency. Here's a guy that was murdered, stabbed to death, his throat slit, his wife, probably by his son. We don't know for sure. That's a very sad thing. And to gloat over it and to make the comments that the president said, you know, it's not presidential. And I just think there's a big yearning in our country right now for more decency, self-control, some restraint, and a little more normalcy. And what we saw with that response, it's not an appropriate comment from a president.

BROWN: We've heard that same sentiment from other Republicans who are leaving soon. Marjorie Taylor Greene, for one, has been on our show saying the same thing. Do you think Republicans are just scared that Trump is going to go after them if they speak out and say the truth?

BACON: Well, there is some of that. Now, a lot of people think as I'm getting out, I'm saying this. I've been this way, I think, all along.

BROWN: We had you on the show, too, before you announced that you were leaving Congress. BACON: He came out to our district and campaigned against me in 2022. And I just want to put that on the record. But I do think people are scared when they're afraid of primaries and they're afraid of a little bit of the retribution. But I do think the majority of Americans want normalcy and decency. And I think the president needs that feedback.

If you're just going to be a yes man to him, he's going to go to his worst. You know, he's just going to keep doing what he's doing and maybe more of it. If you push back, I think it's helpful. I think he needs to know that there's a lot of Republicans do not appreciate these kinds of comments. I also think he needs feedback on tariffs. He lives in a bubble on the tariff thing. He's being told all the time everything's all right. But we know from the economic numbers today, they're not. He needs feedback on Ukraine.

You know, I try to remind him, Chamberlain did a lot of things that you're doing in 1938, and it didn't work. You've got to stand up to a strong man like Putin, and you can't let a guy bully you or bully his neighbors. We've got to stand up to that. So, I think the feedback's good for him. I think if we can help him be a better president, if we're honest.

BLITZER: You know, it's interesting. President Trump's White House Chief of Staff, Susie Wiles, I assume you've met her, you know her. She told Vanity Fair in a newly released interview that her boss, quote, we're talking about the president, quoting her, "has an alcoholic's personality," governing with a, quote, "view that there's nothing he can't do." President Trump famously does not drink, and Wiles herself grew up with an alcoholic father. Wiles is now calling this a hit piece. How do you respond to that long interview she gave to Vanity Fair?

BACON: I didn't see that clip. I saw some other ones about Ukraine that she said about the president. Again, I think it's helpful. If we come back and say, Mr. President, we disagree. He could have had a much better tariff policy if he would have come to the Congress. There's some tariffs I would have supported. But, you know, tariffs against 80 countries, for example --

BLITZER: It's really hurting agriculture in Nebraska (INAUDIBLE).

BACON: And so, I -- he would be better off if more people spoke up, gave him honest feedback. And it would stop him from doing some of the most zany things out there that he does. And those comments on Mr. Reiner, they were just ugly. And we're better than that. And OK, I expect it for some people, normally at a bar or something, you know. But not the president of the United States. We expect better.

[10:45:00]

BROWN: But how hard is it for a Republican to speak the truth, push back against Trump, and actually stay in office and not be primaried and not be, you know, the subject of the MAGA machine online, and I mean --

BACON: Well, I've had four primaries, and the last two times from the right, I mean, there was a lot of focus, I also loyal enough to Trump. I would have probably not run again earlier, because there's other things I want to do in life, but I wanted to prove a point in our district that the majority supports common sense, decency, Reagan conservatism. And so, I stayed in an extra run or two just to prove the -- I don't know what you want to call them, the far-right or the Trump loyalists that he can do no wrong, that crowd, and I wanted to run just to prove a point that the majority want decency and more of a Reagan-Republican ideology, and five times was enough.

BROWN: You're ready.

BACON: I'm ready for doing something else.

BROWN: All right. Well, thank you for all of your service. Congressman Don Bacon, thank you so much.

BACON: Thank you.

BLITZER: Appreciate it very, very much.

BROWN: Coming up here in the Situation Room, the battle over Trump's new White House ballroom heads to court just hours from now. Could a federal judge derail his plans?

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[10:50:00]

BROWN: Happening now, the double homicide case involving Nick Reiner will be turned over to the Los Angeles prosecutors today. He is being held without bond after the deaths of his parents, Rob and Michele Reiner. But it is up to the D.A.'s office to file specific charges.

BLITZER: And joining us now to discuss CNN Legal Analyst, former federal prosecutor and defense attorney Joey Jackson. Joey, walk us through what will happen today.

JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST AND CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes, good to be with you both. So, what'll happen is that they will be conferring, they being law enforcement, in terms of those who gathered the evidence, will be conferring with the district attorney's office. The district attorney's office has a period of 48 hours in order to decide whether to charge someone who is in custody. As we look at the pictures there of the now-deceased mom and dad and the son accused of doing so, that means tomorrow. It doesn't include Sunday.

And so, the district attorney has an opportunity to evaluate this. I do anticipate that they will return a criminal complaint, which would include murder with special circumstances. What is that? It is intentional premeditated murder and it involves more than one person. Thereafter, when he's charged, he'll be afforded an opportunity to present himself before a judge. When that happens, don't know that that will happen today.

But I expect that once they confer that as law enforcement with prosecutors, there will be charges that are announced and made public. And then he'll be given an opportunity, that is the son, the person accused, to appear before a judge at whatever time that occurs, enter a plea of not guilty, and then the case will ensue thereafter.

BROWN: So, Nick Reiner has talked extensively about his struggles with substance abuse. He's been on podcasts talking about it. If this makes it to trial, could that become part of his defense strategy?

JACKSON: Yes, I think it could, and I think it will. It could go to play in terms of, Pamela and Wolf, the nature of what occurred specifically. You know, when you charge a person with murder, you look at their intent. You look at whether it was premeditated. You look in the alternative. If it wasn't, is it something less than that? Why is that significant? Because, yes, murder is murder. However, in the event that you have murder with special circumstances, a double homicide here, you're looking at life in jail without the possibility of parole. California does indeed have the death penalty. It's not used and would not expect it to be used.

However, in the event that something lesser goes to your state of mind, heat of passion, loss of control, et cetera, that then lessens the nature of ultimately what a jury, we're not there yet, but you're speaking, and if it goes that far, there's no plea agreements, et cetera, what a jury has to determine, and heat of passion could reduce it to something like manslaughter, et cetera.

We don't know the nature and circumstances, what the nature of the fight was. There apparently are some reporting that there was a dispute at a Christmas party prior to this occurring. And so, a lot, again, Pam, depends upon the evidence, the facts, the circumstances, but his state of mind and what specifically he did and how he reacted and whether he was provoked will have a lot to do with ultimately how the case plays out and what, if anything, he, you know, is held accountable for at the time it goes to trial, if and when it does.

BLITZER: And, Joey, I also want to talk about the pretrial hearing of Luigi Mangione, the accused gunman, in the UnitedHealthcare CEO shooting. His defense is trying to get key evidence thrown out. What's the likelihood of that? And if they lose here, could it benefit his defense down the road?

JACKSON: So, Wolf, let's start with that. I think certainly any time where you throw out evidence that's critical in a case, here we're talking about a backpack that contained a number of items that are damning, such as the gun, such as the silencer, such as fake IDs, such as a number of other things, such as the manifesto, which they're calling, really, the document as to why he engaged in this. Once you throw that out, obviously it helps your case because damning evidence is not seen by the jury.

I would, however, remind everyone as we look at the backpack that prosecutors have a lot of other evidence. And what is that other evidence? They have the surveillance video that we've seen in terms of the shooting itself. The police have tracked his movements, his surveillance relating to those movements. There's DNA, allegedly, at the scene on a water bottle in addition to a candy bar. And so, because it's thrown out, if it is thrown out, it doesn't mean that it's the end of the case. It's just less evidence prosecutors have to use in the case. They certainly have an overwhelming amount.

[10:55:00]

With respect, Wolf, briefly, as to whether it will be thrown out, I think this is a judge who's not shy to call it, as they see it. A person has a Fourth Amendment right, and that Fourth Amendment right means that if someone's going to be searched, there needs to be probable cause to do it. People might scream at the TV now saying, what do you mean, probable cause? We saw him shoot the person. Yes, but if you're taking a bag, why did you take it? Was it necessary? Was he in danger, or were you in danger at the time? Did the statements that he made, was the statements that he made something that you should have given a Miranda warning?

So, I think this judge will call it as they see it, Wolf, and we'll see. It'll be a written decision next month, so we'll have to wait. We will not get the decision immediately after the hearing.

BLITZER: Our CNN legal analyst Joey Jackson, as usual, thank you very, very much. And coming up right after the break, we're getting new videos in the Brown University shooting investigation. The clips could be a game changer as authorities plead for the public's help to catch a killer.

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